'entitlement generation'

[Alexsy]

as if there hasn't been enough hand-wringing about this already, prepare yourselves for an AP story tommorow about how, um, old people think we are 'spoiled' etc etc for not wanting to be corporate slaves, and, um, have meaningful professional/personal lives. don't give up all faith in old people, though; there are a few that get it, and they're quoted in the story as well.

** this story may show up in your local paper, or it'll prolly be available on some web site, somehwere ...

[wordsmith]

Can't wait to see it. Although I'm sure it will be more of the same old, same old, I have to admit that I'm one who DOES think that people my age have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement about a lot of things (shoot me now).

[cornflakegirl]

Can't wait to see it. Although I'm sure it will be more of the same old, same old, I have to admit that I'm one who DOES think that people my age have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement about a lot of things (shoot me now).

i agree. i think i am that way to some extent.

[MollyMe]

I read it.

I don't see why this generation is "spoiled" because we don't want our jobs to be our lives.

[wordsmith]

Link?









extra characters

[pisces2473]

I read it.

I don't see why this generation is "spoiled" because we don't want our jobs to be our lives.
Wasn't there something like this already published? It sounds familiar...

[wordsmith]

Probably about a million times.

[MollyMe]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/26/ap/business/mainD8AVH6UO1.shtml


He partly faults coddling parents and colleges for doing little to prepare students for the realities of adulthood and setting the course for what many disillusioned twentysomethings are increasingly calling their "quarter-life crisis."

I agree with the doctor who talked about 20-somethings today being accustomed to instant gratification.

[Deadend]

I don't know about "entittlement generation". To me, it depends on who you talk to, and even more importanly the income bracket of their family. Mind you ya, there certainly is no shortage of upper middle class spoiled brats out there.

How our generation is particularily differant than our parents generation is beyond me. Seems to me them and their giant suburban garge houses, full size SUV's, and gentically modified food participate wholey and completely in the short-sighted "take what you can as soon as you can" lifestyle.

It strikes me as highly insulting and consecending for people to talk down to us becauses we're young. Entittlement generation? Sure, granted, but it started in the 1950's. The whole thing reminds me of a song:


We're not the ones who leave the homeless in the streets at night
We're not the ones who've kept minorities and women down
Still we grow and then the problems they become our own
We carry on without even realizing why
We're innocent
But the weight of the world is on our shoulders
We're innocent
But the battles left us are far from over
We're not the ones whose pollution blackened our skies
And ruined the streams
We're not the ones who made the nuclear bombs
That threaten our lives
We're not the ones who let the children starve in faraway lands
We're not the ones who made the streets unsafe to walk at night

10 points if you can name it

[wordsmith]

The Young Labeled 'Entitlement Generation'

CHICAGO, June 26, 2005


(AP) Evan Wayne thought he was prepared for anything during a recent interview for a job in radio sales. Then the interviewer hit the 24-year-old Chicagoan with this: "So, we call you guys the 'Entitlement Generation,'" the baby boomer executive said, expressing an oft-heard view of today's young work force. "You think you're entitled to everything."

Such labeling is, perhaps, a rite of passage for every crop of twentysomethings. In their day, baby boomers were rabble-rousing hippies, while Gen Xers were apathetic slackers.

Now, deserved or not, this latest generation is being pegged, too _ as one with shockingly high expectations for salary, job flexibility and duties but little willingness to take on grunt work or remain loyal to a company.

I can only HOPE this comes up in a job interview...it will give me the perfect setup to point out who I've remained intensely devoted for the past four years to a job that pays well under 25K, demands 50-60 hour workweeks, has me in on evening and weekends regularly, and is something I've stuck by entirely out of loyalty and the opportunity to learn the ropes and pay my dues. My ass. I love getting lumped in with a bunch of spoiled assholes.

"We're seeing an epidemic of people who are having a hard time making the transition to work _ kids who had too much success early in life and who've become accustomed to instant gratification," says Dr. Mel Levine, a pediatrics professor at the University of North Carolina Medical School and author of a book on the topic called "Ready or Not, Here Life Comes."

I agree. I do think that my peers are overwhelmingly into instant gratification. I also think I'm an anomaly for sticking to something for four years at my age.

While Levine also notes that today's twentysomethings are long on idealism and altruism, "many of the individuals we see are heavily committed to something we call 'fun.'"

Please. My older coworkers have MUCH more time for "committment to fun" than I do. Particularly my boss, who frequents MLB baseball games during the work week, and one of my fellow writers, who refuses to report on weekend events. I'm the one not having any fun.

He partly faults coddling parents and colleges for doing little to prepare students for the realities of adulthood and setting the course for what many disillusioned twentysomethings are increasingly calling their "quarter-life crisis."

Meanwhile, employers from corporate executives to restaurateurs and retailers are frustrated.

"It seems they want and expect everything that the 20- or 30-year veteran has the first week they're there," says Mike Amos, a Salt Lake City-based franchise consultant for Perkins Restaurants.

True...there seems to be a concept that we're all somehow above dues-paying, and I can see how this elicits eye-rolls from those who HAVE paid their dues.

Just about any twentysomething will tell you they know someone like this, and may even have some of those high expectations themselves.

Wayne had this response for his interviewer at the radio station: "Maybe we WERE spoiled by your generation. But I think the word 'entitled' isn't necessarily the word," he said. "Do we think we're deserving if we're going to go out there and bust our ass for you? Yes."

He ended up getting the job _ and, as he starts this month, is vowing to work hard.

Some experts who study young people think having some expectations, and setting limits with bosses, isn't necessarily negative.

"It's true they're not eager to bury themselves in a cubicle and take orders from bosses for the next 40 years, and why should they?" asks Jeffrey Arnett, a University of Maryland psychologist who's written a book on "emerging adulthood," the period between age 18 and 25. "They have a healthy skepticism of the commitment their employers have to them and the commitment they owe to their employers."

Many young people also want to avoid becoming just another cog who works for a faceless giant.

Anthony DeBetta, a 23-year-old New Yorker, works with other twentysomethings at a small marketing firm _ and says the company's size makes him feel like he can make a difference.

This is valid...I know that I have no interest in working for a large firm where my individual efforts don't stand out. But, on the flip side, there are plenty of us who want the money/power/prestige for working for a large corp., but want it to be roses. I do think that if you want to reap the benefits of working for a large firm, you can't really whine about how you're treated all "office space." It's not like you don't know what you're getting into. Wanna "make a difference?" Work for a different kind of company. Yeah, you might not get paid us much. Suck it up.

"We have a vested interest in the growth of this firm," he says.

Elsewhere, Liz Ryan speculates that a more relaxed work environment at the company she runs _ no set hours and "a lot of latitude in how our work gets done" _ helps inspire her younger employees.

I know when I worked in a more relaxed work environment when I worked for a nonprofit, it was a much more pleasant experience...but it was for EVERYONE, including the middle aged and elderly people I worked with. I think that the appeal of this sort of work environment is important to more people than just us spoiled babies. The rat race isn't the way to go, and we're not the only people who see that.

"Maybe twentysomethings have figured out something that boomers like me took two decades to piece together: namely, that there's more to life than by-the-book traditional career success," says Ryan, the 45-year-old CEO of a Colorado-based company called WorldWIT, an on and offline networking organization for professional women.

I think there's something to this, and I don't see it as a scornworthy negative. I speak from a liberal arts-educated perspective (surprise, surprise) and I know that this educational tradition tends to foster a tendency to look for nontraditional careers and thinking outside the box. Yet, now we get ripped for doing exactly that.

As much as some employers would like to resist the trend, a growing number are searching for ways to retain twentysomething employees _ and to figure out what makes them tick.

"The manager who says I don't have time for that is going to be stuck on the endless turnover treadmill," says Eric Chester, a Colorado-based consultant who works with corporations to understand what he calls "kidployees," ages 16 to 24.

At Children's Memorial Hospital in Chicago, for instance, administrators have developed an internship with mentoring and more training for young nurses that has curbed turnover by more than 50 percent and increased job satisfaction.

Amos at Perkins Restaurants says small changes also have helped _ loosening standards on piercings or allowing cooks to play music in the kitchen.

And Muvico, a company with movie theaters in a few Southern states, gives sporting goods and music gift certificates to young staffers who go beyond minimum duties.

"If you just expect them to stand behind a register and smile, they're not going to do that unless you tell them why that's important and then recognize them for it," says John Spano, Muvico's human resources director.

Still others are focusing on getting twentysomethings more prepared.

Neil Heyse, an instructor at Pennsylvania's Villanova University, has started a company called MyGuidewire to provide career coaching for young people.

"It's a hot issue and I think it's getting hotter all the time," Heyse says of work readiness. "There's a great amount of anxiety beneath the surface."

[wordsmith]

I don't know about "entittlement generation". To me, it depends on who you talk to, and even more importanly the income bracket of their family.

Very true. I feel a LOT of the time as if my whole generation is judged based on a very specific socioeconomic class of people, and one that I'm not, and never have been, a member of.

[AtomicBoyJim]

I haven't heard "not the one" in forever, nice reference! Personally, I kind of wonder if the attitude comes from some kind of calvinistic mindset that's somehow survived until today.

[capella]

What about the fact that all these so-called hard working older folks have totally made it impossible to be able to afford to LIVE in certain parts of the country (a lot of it)? Who do you think is driving up the cost of housing? Who is buying and bidding and causing the price escalations in a lot of metro areas? It certainly isn't a 20something. I'm sorry I loved my job as a journalist but I COULDN'T AFFORD TO LIVE ON 26,000 IN ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND!!!! It makes me so pissed off to see a "news" story about how MY generation is spoiled when I scrubbed toilets in a housecleaning business I STARTED! to get through college, while interning and working for nothing at my college paper OH YEAH and carrying 15 credit hours a semester. This is BS!!! I'm sure there are a lot of punk asses who suck off their parents and whine how bad and mean the world is but EVERY generation has their pansy ass punks. I suppose calling us all the "entitlement generation" makes it easier to send 20somethings off to be killed in a war while stealing and robbing OUR social security fund dry. Yeah, they're just little whiny babies. WE'VE paid our dues. It's time to retire, bitch about them and leave them high and dry when their time comes. The cost of living is ridiculously high nowadays. Bastards!

[lilyflower]

Sure, there's some spoiled brats (particularly in the upper middle class - upper class groups) but it's really nice that those of us who actually work get called "entitled" too. Yes, excuse me but I do feel entitled - entitled to think that my hard work will mean something, entitled that I should be able to afford to buy a house someday, entitled to think that if I actually work hard, I'll get ahead and not be living off of ramen noodles. God, what an entitled little snot I am! :googly:

It's great too how these same people that whine about MY sense of entitlement are the same assholes who drive around the suburbs in SUVs and complain about the cost of gas. Here's an idea - DON'T OWN A FUCKING SUV, DICKHEAD!

[wordsmith]

Again, I'd like to point out my fortysomething boss, who spends at least one work day every other week or so at a baseball game. Who's the spoiled jerk?

[wordsmith]

Sure, there's some spoiled brats (particularly in the upper middle class - upper class groups) but it's really nice that those of us who actually work get called "entitled" too. Yes, excuse me but I do feel entitled - entitled to think that my hard work will mean something, entitled that I should be able to afford to buy a house someday, entitled to think that if I actually work hard, I'll get ahead and not be living off of ramen noodles. God, what an entitled little snot I am! :googly:

It's definitely true, though, that there are those of our peers who give the actual hard workers a bad name. I know a lot of people in my age group who flounce around like overtime, sacrificing something for the sake of your work, going the extra mile, etc. is out of the question and unreasonable. And those of us who DON'T do that get taken down with the rest.

Every generation has its lazy-asses. But apparently, whoever are the youngest ones in the pecking order get DEFINED both those lazy-asses around them.

[shimmer728]

When I complain about my $23,000/year salary, my dad says I have a sense of entitlement. I then have to listen to a huge lecture about how he and my mom had to eat Hamburger Helper five nights a week when they were first married; how he went to work for my grandfather, who paid him shit while he built a huge, fancy house for him and my grandmother to live in; and how he hasn't been able to save much for retirement because he couldn't afford to start socking money away when he was my age.

To this I say: Fuck off! I'm not asking for a six-figure salary here or a stretch Hummer or even an extravagant shopping spree. I just want to be reasonably comfortable and be able to treat myself now and then. Is that so awful? I'm almost 25 years old and quite frankly, I've experienced my share of unhappiness in life. Sorry if I want more than that now.

[SweetEm]

He partly faults coddling parents and colleges for doing little to prepare students for the realities of adulthood and setting the course for what many disillusioned twentysomethings are increasingly calling their "quarter-life crisis
I think this is true for me. It's so embarrasing. But yes, I feel like I've been living in a fantasy land my whole life - yes, at times I've worked hard, I've had hard times befall on me, but I think this lack of prparation is part of what has caused my QLC. My parents were total hippies, and me and my brothers recieved no positive discipline or structure growing up. Anyway, blaming my parents and whatnot is lame and cliche, but i feel in my case it's somewhat true. The next step is overcoming my fear of failure and having responsibilities and a career. One mantra I've heard over and over again from other folks in this situation, is "but that's hard, that's going to be a lot of hard work." But that's life, life is Hard Work no matter what you decide to do.

[Madhaitian78]

When I read this article, I was frustrated at the fact twentysomething are now the "entitlement generation". What are they talking about? In fact it is the baby-boom generation that is most spoiled. Many of them grew up in 1940-50's where the economy was booming. 25 to 30 years ago, a high school diploma means a working class, union protected job. A College Bachelors was automatically your ticket to the stable middle class. Anything beyond a Bachelors, and you were living the high life. Not to mention that tuition was cheap and federal pell grants were readily available for everyone. The job market was not as screwed up as it is now. Back then you had the appropriate job that matches your education level. Now some baby-boom employer is claiming that most twenty-somethings are now the "entitled generation"? What the hell is going on with our country? I'm a P.hD student, I have my BA and MA and I complain that I can't find a college instructor position with no health coverage, so therefore I'm spoiled and entitled?! Nowadays, my doctoral friends are working as waiters and retail clerks because the domestic economy in the US is so screwed up. I'm so desperate that I'm applying for a workers skilled residence program to work in Canada.
Something is wrong with this picture! :confused:

[wordsmith]

You, know, the more I think about stuff like this, the more I kind of have to laugh. Writers of articles like this think they are being groundbreaking, when in fact, it's pretty cliche.

Think about it...the young of EVERY SINGLE generation have been called spoiled, entitled brats by the previous generations. It's pretty typical. The boomers who are calling people our age irresponsible and focused on self-gratification are the same people who got EXACTLY the same thing from their elders. And were all of them "dirty hippies?" No. My mom and dad grew up in a conservative area in the 60's, about 2,000 miles apiece from both Woodstock and Haight-Ashbury, and they STILL were lumped in with dirty pothead slacker hippies with no work ethic, whether that was who they were or not.

Yeah, some of our generation are spoiled babies. Some aren't. Articles like this pose as profound sociological commentary, when it's in fact old news, basically the equivalent of the cartoon grandpa sitting out on the porch in his rocking chair, lecturing about "back in my day." We get it. The youngest working generation will always be perceived as slackers by the older ones. Ho hum.

[heatherf]

WS- true about the other generations.

What pisses me off non-stop about these kind of articles is that we are looked down upon for realizing that there is more to life than spending 60+ hours a week at a job. We realize that our home/social life is much more important, rewarding, and emotionally fulfilling....and that no amount of money we could make at some corporate slave job is going to change our mind about that. GOOD FOR US!

[GetMeOuttaDC]

What about the fact that all these so-called hard working older folks have totally made it impossible to be able to afford to LIVE in certain parts of the country (a lot of it)? Who do you think is driving up the cost of housing? Who is buying and bidding and causing the price escalations in a lot of metro areas? It certainly isn't a 20something. I'm sorry I loved my job as a journalist but I COULDN'T AFFORD TO LIVE ON 26,000 IN ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND!!!! It makes me so pissed off to see a "news" story about how MY generation is spoiled when I scrubbed toilets in a housecleaning business I STARTED! to get through college, while interning and working for nothing at my college paper OH YEAH and carrying 15 credit hours a semester. This is BS!!! I'm sure there are a lot of punk asses who suck off their parents and whine how bad and mean the world is but EVERY generation has their pansy ass punks. I suppose calling us all the "entitlement generation" makes it easier to send 20somethings off to be killed in a war while stealing and robbing OUR social security fund dry. Yeah, they're just little whiny babies. WE'VE paid our dues. It's time to retire, bitch about them and leave them high and dry when their time comes. The cost of living is ridiculously high nowadays. Bastards!

Preach it, Sister!!!

And this "commitment to fun" BS? Um, yeah, try having bosses that get all up in arms and try to fuck with you when you have "fun" commitments like funerals and medical appointments. Let's not forget the manager I had who called me 7 times in 4 hours when I was at an immediate family member's funeral. Or forget the manager I had who basically tried to get me fired when I left work early a few times to get a funny looking growth tested (Thank God I did, it turned out to be cancer) and how he and his boss basically demanded proof that I wasn't PG and I was actually in need of medical attention.

Jessie, it's not that we're "being treated like Office Space." it's that we're being treated like we don't have a right to be human beings.

[wordsmith]

Kelly, your situation is extreme. I'm referring more to the loads of people our age who really DO look at their professional employment as an inconvenient deterrent to living it up, rather than as a necessary facet of life that requires at least nominal dedication. You know those people are out there. And they're the ones who spur crap like this.

[Morgan81]

I really have a hard time grasping the opposing point of view on this one. I am ambitious and yes, I want a high salary, corner offce, etc. So I guess that means I feel like am entitled to it????? Of course I don't, I do feel entitled to be given the opportunity to earn those aminities from rich, over-paid, under-talented baby-boomers who have one foot in retirement already.

All I want is the chance to show what I can do, I know what that is, so I know I can have the nice things at some point. But is that now, while I'm on this board most of the time, watching the clock on the company dime? Obviously no, I don't deserve them now, but, given the right opportunity I could.

My question is, since when did ambition at an early age become a bad thing???

[wordsmith]

I think the argument is not that ambition is a bad thing, but that expecting to be given great things while putting minimal effort is. I disagree that this is applicable to all people my age, but that's pretty much what they're saying. That we have grandiose dreams, but are unrealisitic about what we should have to put into making those dreams reality. I don't think that's across the board accurate.

[shimmer728]

Yeah, I take SERIOUS offense at the suggestion that I don't work hard. My dad likes to say to me, "If you want more money, work harder." I probably sound like I'm whining, but the pay at my current job is unlikely to change if I put in an extra two hours a day (yeah, I'll get some overtime, but that's all eaten up by taxes anyway.) I know how to work hard, but I'm not going to be a workaholic. Sorry.

[heatherf]

I think we just know how to get shit done faster than previous generations. We were brought up to look for short cuts, so by golly we are going to scour them out and use them.

Unlike our bosses....we are whizzes at a computer, so it takes us like 1/2 the time to do the work than it used to take them. I swear!

[wordsmith]

Hahahahahahah, shimmer...tell your dad about me. I work DOUBLE the hours of anyone else here (no overtime, either, I get paid for extra, but at a straight time rate). And my pay doesn't budge a bit. Your compensation doesn't reflect how hard you work (or the hours you put in) in this field. Sorry. This isn't corporate America, it's newspapers. We totally fall in the gray area. Nobody who works hard in newspapers makes money. Nobody gets rich in newspapers but owners.

[jrwilheim]

If I had been on that radio job interview and the interviewer said something like, "so, they call you the entitlement generation," I'd get up and leave right then and there. That's about as bad as saying to a woman applicant, "so, how come all you gals get pregnant and leave" or to a black applicant, "so, they say [insert racist epithet here] are lazy." I wouldn't work at a company that stereotyped me this way because of my age.

I also don't think we're "entitled" because we have brains and want to do work that puts them to use. Let's face it: doing work that requires no actual thinking SUCKS. A lot of us have spent a small fortune acquiring top-notch educations that our employers refuse to put to any kind of productive use.

Maybe we should call the older generation the "unappreciative" generation, since they don't appreciate our talents.

Maybe that twentysomething who won't "stand behind a counter and smile" is graduated Yale with a 3.9 and is miserable because her brain isn't being put to use...just a thought.

[GetMeOuttaDC]

I'm referring more to the loads of people our age who really DO look at their professional employment as an inconvenient deterrent to living it up, rather than as a necessary facet of life that requires at least nominal dedication. You know those people are out there. And they're the ones who spur crap like this.

OK, cool... Sorry I misunderstood. Honestly, nothing pisses me off more than having jackass, incendiary lables applied to me when the truth is more like the opposite of that label. Maybe the assholes who write shit like the article above should interview people like me.

Sadly enough, in plenty of industries - consulting, I-banking, corporate law, etc... I don't think my experiences are that unusual.

[shimmer728]

I think we just know how to get shit done faster than previous generations. We were brought up to look for short cuts, so by golly we are going to scour them out and use them.

Absolutely.

Hahahahahahah, shimmer...tell your dad about me. I work DOUBLE the hours of anyone else here (no overtime, either, I get paid for extra, but at a straight time rate). And my pay doesn't budge a bit. Your compensation doesn't reflect how hard you work (or the hours you put in) in this field. Sorry. This isn't corporate America, it's newspapers. We totally fall in the gray area. Nobody who works hard in newspapers makes money. Nobody gets rich in newspapers but owners.

THANK YOU! This is totally on the mark. But my dad has no clue how the industry works (not that I really expect him to.) He actually told me I was selling myself short when I told him, right before I graduated from college, that it was unlikely the New York Times would hire me right out of school.

Now, if I REALLY had a sense of entitlement, wouldn't I EXPECT the Times to hire me, even with a lack of experience?!

[heatherf]

But Shim, if you worked for the Times....you'd probably HAVE to actually work a lot more. :rolleyes:

[wordsmith]

Hah, shimmer. Is your dad mine? I swear to God mine talks out his ass left and right about my field, which, to the best of my knowlege, he has not researched one iota. Whether he's telling me "Well, you should just tell your boss you need to be paid more!" (Gee, dad, hadn't thought of that one!) or "Why don't you just go work work for the Chicago Tribune?" (Yeah, I keep dodging their calls, the pests), he proves on a nearly daily basis just how out of touch he is with the reality of this field.

[shimmer728]

Hah, shimmer. Is your dad mine? I swear to God mine talks out his ass left and right about my field, which, to the best of my knowlege, he has not researched one iota. Whether he's telling me "Well, you should just tell your boss you need to be paid more!" (Gee, dad, hadn't thought of that one!) or "Why don't you just go work work for the Chicago Tribune?" (Yeah, I keep dodging their calls, the pests), he proves on a nearly daily basis just how out of touch he is with the reality of this field.

That sounds EXACTLY like my father! I usually just ignore him; I've learned there's not much else I can do, because he's incredibly stubborn.

[HereComes30]

I don't think that it is those in higher income brackets or that came from wealthy families that feel entitled. I see people constantly that feel entitled to get a high paying job just because they want one or because they have a degree from a certain school. Or people that feel entitled to free handouts from the government because of history hundreds of years ago. Or people that feel entitled to respect when they give none first. People that feel entitled to raises and promotions without working for them. People that feel entitled to special perks because of a social niche unrelated to economic status. And I do indeed feel this is a growing trend in America today.

The question is, how is the trend reversed?

[wordsmith]

Show me a social niche that is totally unrelated in any way to economic status.

[heatherf]

This reminds me of the new show that is going to be on NBC, where so hollywood big wig's teenage sons are going to have to get real jobs.....I would like to watch it.

It also reminds me of the documentary done by one of the Johnson & Johnson heirs....where he interviewed numerous other heirs about their life, lifestyle, etc. GREAT WATCH. It's the weirdest shit in the world....

[Bugsey34]

The Young Labeled 'Entitlement Generation'

CHICAGO, June 26, 2005


(AP)

Amos at Perkins Restaurants says small changes also have helped _ loosening standards on piercings or allowing cooks to play music in the kitchen.



This is clearly my favorite line. If only my office would let up on the piercing standards, I would totally want to work harder... :frustrate

Like others said, every generation has been called spoiled brats when they were young.

At the end of the day, production and money are made through hard work. Whatever lazy asses out there that are not putting in the hours, time and effort that is required to make it in their field will soon be weeded out, regardless of age.

I have some 40-somethings in my office that take no extra responsibility, only do what they are told and nothing else, and are the least flexible workers I have ever come across. If they were 23 would they be the headliners of the "entitlement generation".

This is just a way of stereotyping based on age, just like people stereotype by race or gender. My age doesn't indicate how I act or work as an individual.

[wordsmith]

No shit! My general manager certainly does everything humanly possible to avoid expending any effort whatsoever doing his job. I guess he's "entitled" in his midfifties.

[Deadend]

I am very pleased with this thread :)

You know, it's almost like *somebody* is trying to completely destroy the idea that we're owed anything from society at all. Well DUH, of course society is supposed to do something for us, OTHERWISE WE WOULD NOT PARTICIPATE IN IT. I mean for f*cksakes, how stoic are we supposed to be anyways?

And this making out like the previous generation lived on three cups of steam a day? Gimme a break, not only is it the oldest cliche in the book, but historically speaking, it's completely and utterly false. A simple Input/Output analysis like everyone has done here shows that we DO GET LESS than anyone did in the twentieth century. I highly doubt they worried about outsourcing to India in the 1950's.

I think it's time to reverse this notion foisted upon us that as the working class we deserve nothing. That's what this is all about, and make no mistake about it, it is a very NEW thing.