Draft....

[Jacquikay]

So the question I'm presenting this morning is this:

Bush is trying to reinstate the draft. If this is passed (which let me tell you I'll get on TV somehow and curse that idiot out- my brothers ARE NOT going to war!!) do you think it's fair or unfair for women to be or not to be drafted????

I know I know more war talk....but I'm interested in this, mostly your opinions on it!

And lets throw in for shits and giggles what you think about the draft anyway....does ulling a bunch of 18 y/o's that don't know their ass from a gun, shipping them to a forgein country AGAINST THEIR WILL, and telling them to fight for their country really do anything positive?

:) Hehe ...let the games begin!

[Jacquikay]

Happy second Monday!

[pisces2473]

Jacqui, where did you see this? I'm searching for information and I can't find it. Help!

As for my opinion, the people that would be drafted are young and wouldn't know what the hell they are doing. Unless we lose a LOT of trained, career/reserve service people, we don't need a draft right now!

[Jacquikay]

It was on the radio this morning......

[klo1335]

Good question! Althought I consider myself a feminist and believe in equal rights...lord knows, I don't want to be shipped off to fight in the war so if it comes down to it...I say let the men go! BUT I don't think men should be forced to fight in the war either. It didn't go overwell in Vietnam so why would it go over well now? Bush is an idiot. I didn't hear anything on the news about instituting the draft again.

[Jacquikay]

I guess they are saying we don't have enough soldiers over there....... well idiot if you had waited for backing then you'd have more military!!!DUMB DA DUMB DUMB DUMB!!!

Anyway, I guess it's one of those "We may have to go to Congress" type things... I thought it was interesting and asked the question...whether it be this war or a different.

Can you be feminist and think that women shouldn't be drafted?? What about EQUAL rights?? does that only pertain to the benefits?


Oh I'm so being devil advocate here@

[pisces2473]

Good question, Jacqui...I consider myself to be all about equal rights for men and women but I don't want to be drafted!!! As for the benefits, I think there are some "bad" things that we face now that we are equal--women have to pay taxes now that we can work outside of the home, for instance. Some women are not physically able to handle the burdens of war, just as some men aren't. Some women could do it better than the men! If they allowed women to be drafted, I'd be in Canada so quick. I don't support the reasons behind this war, so why should I have to fight in it? I support our troops for having to go (even if they didn't want to) but personally I couldn't do it.

[TankgirlyC]

I think the radio show you were listening to was posing a question NOT stating the Bush is going to bring back the draft.

There has been much talk about should we shouldnt we...but they cant. It was out lawed after Vietnam.

As for if we did how do I feel about it....my 20 year old cousin is in the marines and they wont let him battle because he doesnt have enough experience....so I dont think they could take random 18-26 year olds and place them with a gun into battle.

As for should women go...no. We need people back home to make things (like weaponry) and also to re-populate...

We will never see a world as lived during WW2...nor during Vietnam.

[klo1335]

Good way to put things Pisces. I agree with you. I don't want to fight in a war, let only be drafted into one.

[Jacquikay]

NOPE, they definitely said that there is talk about Bush trying to reinsate the draft.
That would mean outlawing the law wouldn't it?

Maybe it wasn't Bush.... trying to find it but here's one....

http://www.worldpaper.com/2003/march03/iraq4.html

[TankgirlyC]

Totally random.....just read that DOLPHINS are trained by the Navy to seek and mark underwater mines for later inspection....what do people think about that?

[AMB25]

http://www.msnbc.com/local/kbci/m262363.asp - Sounds like Mr. Ringel is the one who proposed reinsating the draft.

Dolphins!!! I think that is animal abuse at its finest.

[Benwa]

If you want to make a law requiring military service then fine. Countries like Isreal and I think Norway require two years. Be consistant though. It looks highly suspect when you force people to serve when times are bad.

Should women be drafted? I don't know. They've been wanting equality, you can't refuse it now that its a bitter pill to swallow. You can dodge it. I'm not saying if I'll dodge it or not, but you can probably guess what I would do. Drafts have favored the rich, which really chaps my ass. People like W would never have served. Theres always a loop hole for the wealthy. This war is a sham.

It doesn't matter if it was outlawed. Prohibition outlawed liquor. The draft will be reinstated if required. It's not like Washington can't change or manipulate a law to serve its purpose.

Canada has universal healthcare! Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[TankgirlyC]

Prohabition led to illegal stilleries and more gang and crimes going on due to the fact that booze was outlawed......

Drafting is not the same idea. Yes people will illegally dodge it...but thats not my point....

[pisces2473]

Can you imagine the protests if the draft was reinstated? And people think the protesters are getting out of hand NOW???

[M4A1]

Israel requires 6 years for men. It's different for women, I'll have to ask my friend's wife. ANd W was a air national guard pilot whose permission to fly was revoked by the military (he was suspended, assigned to a disciplinary unit and not allowed to fly military assignments again).

[Benwa]

Pisces has a point. Talk about a frickin' mess. We're talking riot potential. Masses of people who are highly pissed off.

A cool fact about prohibition. Thats how the kennedy family made all their money. they were Rum Runners.

While talking about kennedy and drafts. I was talking about joining the peace corp before. it was established by JFK and service in the PC counted as military duty. Now I understand why you need a college degree to join. So those with money can have a loophole for the draft.

Heard a funny story on how to dodge a draft. You could go to canada, declare consioncious objector, be gay or declared unfit for military duty because of physical or mental issues. I heard to convince them he was nuts, one guy went to turn in his urine sample. He opened it and drank it! Immediately stamped as defective and was excused from service. I oppose this war enough to drink my own pee. just give me that chance, I know I could chug my urine for peace.

M4, I didn't know W was in the guard! Still, wasn't the guard a rich kids way out during Nam. Why did he get suspended? I can't imagine him being a pilot. He has a hard enough time figuring out what to say next, I can't see him making a split second decision in a jet. When he speaks he appears as a total dolt. They even tell him what to say and he still has trouble. I guess after Clinton, who could talk his way out of anything, it's hard to compete.

[M4A1]

http://www.talion.com/suspension.html

[pisces2473]

I heard that after he was suspended, he was required to do some service and didn't show up for that, so technically he would still be AWOL. Can the president pardon himself??

I don't know if what I just said is really true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[manicmonkie]

In my opinion everybody of age should sign up for the draft. I am not a soldier, nor do I ever wish to be, but I signed up because I have to. I still have 3 more years before I'm considered too old to be drafted, so I may very well be drafted for this war. I hope not, but I do think it'd be fair to have both women and men sign up for the draft.

[sunbear]

Benwa,
you're so funny. Did you ever watch M*A*S*H where Clingon (??) was always dressing up as a woman in hopes of being relieved of duty? I don't know about drinking your own stuff though. I'm sure there are safer ways of acting crazy. :p
Not even the enlisted women go on the front lines, why would we be drafted?
I also don't see anything wrong with joining the guard, air force, etc. in order not to be drafted. Either way, they still serve the country, they're just picking which manner they want to serve.

[Benwa]

Sunbear. The guys name was CLinger I think. Looks like you went into Star Trek mode. Clingons are those guys that have the head that looks like a butt.

Actually drinking pee is perfectly safe. It's completely sterile when it comes out, your body purifies it. Thats why its a big deal when you have a urinary tract infection. There is actually urine therapy. People who use their urine for therapeutic purposes. So a shot of pee won't hurt you. You can't drink it exclusively because of the salt content. Just a reminder, number one is clean but number two definetly is not.

I assume a woman can be drafted and put in less combative areas. Maintenance, water, medical, fuel. But most people who get drafted go in the front because obviously thats where everyone is getting killed. Certainly puts a new twist on it, if you get drafted you're replacing someone who got killed and they want to send you in the same area.

Monkie: I'm signed up for the draft to. Before I ever really thought about it I signed up because it was law. As of june I only have one year left, if the cutoff stays at 26.

Over the ages, women and children were spared from combat for very practical reasons. Children didn't have the strendth or stamina for combat. And females are crucial for repopulation. going to the animal kingdom, say you have an area with 1 doe deer and 100 bucks, then only a few will be born in the next generation. But if you have a 100 does and 1 buck, you may have a population problem. This is why hunters aim for bucks. But now women and children seem to be spared purely for emotional and cultural reasons.

[dakotagopher]

It would take an Act of Congress to reinstate the draft. The Prez does not have the authority to reinstate this. This is a result of the Vietnam experience. There will not be any drafting of anyone in the near future.

Rep. Rangel proposed the draft be reinstated back in January as a political stunt to try to embarrass the president. Rangel was screaming about how minorities are overrepresented in the fighting force; two days later the Pentagon released the now famous study showing that the vast majority of front line fighers are white dudes. Granted, many of them are poor white dudes, but most minorities in the military are in support roles away from the real danger. Supposedly. Anyway, after this report was released and Rangel learned most people weren't going to buy what he was selling, he shut up for the most part. I like Rangel most of the time, but i have no patience for politicians who waste time with crap like this.

Additionally, the military does not want a draft. A volunteer fighting force is much more motivated and effective than a conscript force. Our military is the most effective force in history, and that is due to highly, highly motivated soldiers. The argument can be made that the best way to wreck our military would be to reinstate a draft, incidentally.

Many people along this thread have commented on Bush being an "idiot" to varying degrees. You're entitled to your opinion, but Bush is a lot smarter than he appears. Just because somebody does not exude a smooth TV persona (as Clinton and Reagan did) does not mean they're a doofus. I watch Bush speak and i laugh to myself at how hard it is to take him seriously, but again, look more into the man than what you see on TV. Also, show some respect for the office for crying out loud.

For those commenting on how they'd run to Canada if a draft was reinstated because they "oppose this war" - my guess is they'd run to Canada regardless of the "justness" of the conflict that might require a draft. It is very easy for us, living the opulent and luxurious lives we lead in the society the prior two generations have built, to forget how this society came to be. At times, we may have to fight to keep what we have built. This can be a hard concept for an Enlightened Society to grasp after a few decades of soft living. None of us under 30 has had to build anything - this has all been handed to us and we all live better than 99% of the humans who have ever walked the earth.

Also, side point, whether you agree with the current conflict or not, you must agree that if this conflict prevents one terrorist attack using nuke/bio/chem weapons, it will have been worthwhile. The only reason the 9-11 terrorists didn't use a nuke was that they lacked the technology. Think about that. Instead of 3,000 dead and $60Billion in damages, we'd be looking at 300,000+ dead and $500Billion+ in damages!!! We must take steps to prevent such men from every obtaining such weapons, and that is the big-picture objective of the current Iraq conflict. It is unfortunate that it took 9-11 to wake our leaders up.

As far as potential drafting of women goes - I am all for it, out of fairness. On average, women may be a bit less likely to be front line fighters than the average man, but the real backbone of our military is brainpower, whereas it used to be brawn. Granted, you still need some brawn from time to time.