Halliburton

[Benwa]

Did anyone notice how small the news blip was about Halliburton getting the contract to clean up Iraq after the war. Hardly a dot on the radar. It's actually a subsidiary of Halliburton, which means they're just shielding their name.

For those who don't follow politics or business too much, let me give you the skinny. At the end of Desert Storm there were embargos placed on Iraq stating no American oil companies were allowed to purchase oil from iraq (sounds like a UN rule, because we never would have made that rule). We still got oil in a round about way I'm sure, from Iraq to Syria to US. Anyway, an american energy company called Halliburton found a loop hole and sold oil equipment, pumps, drills, barrels etc. to Iraq and made millions. Their CEO retired with like a 32 million dollar pention recently. that guys name was Dick Cheney, our lovely vice president. So he made it possible for saddam to purchase more WMD from countries like China, Russia and France. So, if we think Saddam is a terrorist then wouldn't Cheney be guilty of funding terrorism?

Anyway, the Halliburton subsidiary already landed the contract to go in after war and reap the millions. No UN considerations over what is best for Iraqi people after the war. But hey, this isn't about oil is it. It isn't about American interest, its about liberating those poor Iraqi people? Thats why its called operation Iraqi freedom and not Operation: Go USA. I can't believe how this issue hasn't received any outcry. Actually I'm suprised it was even reported at all.

[Benwa]

Just an update to this. It appears that even though halliburton got their meathooks in there, they don't have complete control yet. Russia apparently had some contracts for the oil. Plus the UN is discussing what to do with post war iraq.

This Tony Blair guy is a trip. Everytime you think you got him pegged, that little dude surprises you. He is really pushing hard core for the UN to get in there after the war, which I'm sure pisses off the US rulers fiercely. It would be devistating as a business venture if the UN got in there, gave control to the Iraqi people and ruined the return on the US ruler's war investment. Don't get me wrong, I still think Blair is off his rocker but I like it that he's a fly in the ointment.

This is what I'd like to see happen. the Rulers are preaching about freeing the Iraqi people and giving the "gift" of democracy. Well the first democratic vote should be to who THEY want help from, the US or UN. If they pick US fine, but that seems doubtful.

[pisces2473]

Halliburton is all over my "Stupid White Men" page a day quote calendar, LOL. I know SO much about it now...who figured?

[M4A1]

Yup. You know it. What you said is exactly why Rumsfield said Britain's military involvement would be helplful but not critical when Blair was being humiliated by his ministers' resignations. I love that Rumsfield cowboy-- right wing to the extreme. Ha. If it weren't the Brits, we'll need 10,000 more troops to guard that Basra city of 100,000 people. It's so much easier when it's someone else's son who's dying and losing limbs. Watch when we need to clear Baghdad house to house. I guarantee you there will be more deaths. Have you heard our Generals are accusing that Iraqis executed some American prisoners even after they surrendered? That's why our guys looked so scared on the TV, because their buddies got one in the face even after they put their hands up. It could be them whose body is being kicked around and arms weaving lifelessly on the ground. Now that's a real QLC for 20 somethings.

[Benwa]

http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PID.jsp?articleid=6008

Here's an article about Cheney and the Halliburton deal. Its a good site for keeping an eyball on the sleaze. Can you trust a guy who chooses to go by the name Dick. Richard, Rich, Rick, Richie are all perfectly fine. "Hello, my name is Dick, this is my wife Clitoris and my two kids, Anus and Scrote." Anus and Scrote. Sounds like a TV show on Nickelodeon.

Here's the thing that gets me about people who support this war. You are entitled to support it if you wish, but you should know that you are not represented in our faux-democracy. The rulers are for the war, just like you. But you as a person are not represented. It's highly unlikely that someone of your age, social class and financial situation is in the decision making process. Even the families and soldiers who are getting killed aren't represented. It's your patriotic duty to know what the hell your Rulers are up to. It's your responsibilty to find a variety of information from varying sources and find the truth about what is happening. Who benefits from these actions? who pays the price? Do those who pay, get compensated? This is your patriotic duty! Being patriotic is not putting an American flag sticker on your car, singing the anthem, eating hotdogs and watching baseball, drinking Budweiser and cheering when we bomb people.

Sorry about the little tirade. Heard a couple guys talking last night and they were saying "We should just kill all them sand-niggers. Kill em all." (Normally I would never use the N word, but this time I make an exception). Maybe its the area I live in. If you want to know what I mean check out the article I posted in "check out this doofus".

[pisces2473]

Benwa, you are too funny about the Dick family thing...

Does any one remember Dick Armey? He was a rep or a senator. What a loser to go by THAT name.

[dakotagopher]

Deriding somebody because of what their name is is just like racism. Think about it. If you have a problem with Dick, outline it logically. Otherwise you marginalize yourself and your arguments.

Benwa - RE your contention that "pro-war" folks are uninformed - it would be my contention that anti war folks are by-and-large uninformed. Many seem to be protesting out of dislike of Bush policy only. Do some research on the specifics of the Hussein regime and what the experts are saying (and have been saying for 10+ years) about the potential problems that could arise if this situation is allowed to continue to fester. This morning, anti war protesters in NYC held a "die in" where they laid down and obstructed traffic in an effort to show how some people are going to die in Iraq due to the USA's actions. Very dramatic. My question: how many "die ins" did these folks have over the past four years, when FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND Iraqi children under five died due directly to Saddam's regime? In FOUR YEARS!!!! None, I bet. Do the research. War sucks, bigtime, but we have to step up to the plate and be the nation that takes this guy down. Whole situation just sucks, but letting this fester while untold thousands more perish due to this despot is irresponsible and immoral.

On to the oil. We (and the other top 5 oil buying nations) have all been buying oil from Iraq at OPEC rates since the end of gulf war I. This was referred to as the "oil for food" program. Dismal failure, since Saddam just used the money to buy guns and the UN went limp and refused to hold him accountable. Ask the Clinton administration about that one. Anyway, we will continue buying oil at OPEC rates after gulf war II. I still wonder why all these people keep saying this war is about oil. Not even remotely so. If oil was what we were concerned about we'd snuggle up to Saddam and try to get him to tell OPEC to F*** off and open the floodgates. Any gov't we help establish after Saddam will be locked in to OPEC bigtime to ensure acceptance in the region from a regional political standpoint.

On to Halliburton. Yes, "Dick" got his $32M payday, along with hundreds if not thousands of other CEOs over the past decade. Was he worth it? Ask the stockholders and boardmembers of Halliburton. I am not aware of any stockholder actions alleging Dick was overpaid. I could be wrong, but i am not aware of any. That usually means the stockhoders feel they got good value for their money. It is intellectually dishonest to criticize Dick for negotiating the best deal he could when he was hired by Hallie in the first place. That's American baby. If I can convince my boss to pay me a million bucks based on performance objectives, more power to me. As long as it's done honestly.

Hallie was just one of many large US corporations that helped equip the Iraqui Oil industry; we've also helped equipt the Saudi oil industry, the Iranians, etc etc. Cost of doing business. Hallie is bidding now on reconstruction contracts and has advance teams in-country already scouting sites/planning etc. I am sure there is some back-scratching happening, but it does not seem obvious and it seems logical that American contractors should be given first shot at the rebuild-contracts. America is fighting and funding the war and after all, American contractors employ American workers and pay pretty nice taxes into our tax base. Better our companies get this work than the french/russian, etc., who are taking no risk.

Like it or not, our society depends on cheap fuel to function. Farming & trucking industries especially. one DOT study i saw recently estimated that were diesel fuel to increase in cost to $10 per gallon, 90% of our population would have to spend over 80% of their PRE TAX income on food. Their estimation was that (i'm going by memory so may not be 100% accurate) the increased production and transit costs would drive a box of cereal into the $15 range; gallon of milk into the $9 range, etc. Interesting stuff.

Sorry for rambling, i'm on 4 hours of sleep in the past three days. Take care.

[pisces2473]

I work at Yale's Library--this morning when I go into work, I see posted on the door a sticker saying, "When Cheney cries his tears are gasoline--but is it leaded or unleaded?"

Just a random thing I happened to see...

[Benwa]

It's difficult for anyone in America to stay informed. The channels are simply so plugged up with garbage you can't get an alternative view. Perhaps we should all read Middle Eastern newspapers as well as our own.

As for the "die-ins", people can be over zealous on either side. But lets not forget that we never had a problem with Saddam killing his people until he disobeyed us. To believe we are going over for the people is ludicrous, if it were an issue it would have been addressed early on. It may have been able to be nipped in the bud diplomatically. But the Rulers like dictators. They keep the rabble in line so we can go about our business.

I shy away from numbers about dead children. We live in such a child worshipping culture that the stats have a psychological sway that borders manipulation. Say how many 'people' and I'll listen. Start harping about 'children' and I'm out. Plus, far more children have been killed by our economic warfare on other nations than Hussein could ever kill.

As for Cheney. I'm against anyone not working for what they get. He's no better than the people who suck off the welfare teet. The fact that CEO's can make that much money and not do much except make phone calls and meet with people is a crime. You should get what you put in. His service was merely a service, no better than a mechanic or a janitor. I have no concern for the stock holders opinions of him either, because they are getting profit for no work. Profit for no work is the cornerstone of why there is such a huge split and misery in the people.

Oil. It's obvious we are so blatantly dependant on it. This is nothing but a weakness and should be remedied. It shouldn't serve as a justification to make the problem worse. Diversity in fuel is just as important as diversity in every system. It is crucial for survival. I didn't say it just makes survival tough, it is crucial. Without it the system breaks down and there is death for all. This is a law of nature. Not a man made law, but an inescapable certainty.

I see and hear the terms "like it or not" and "thats how things are". These are terms that are nearly always false. Things are the way they are because we make them that way. Or more likely, we have allowed them to become that way. We have complete control over things as silly as petroleum fuel, whether to blow people up, whther to pay taxes and how they are spent, how many hours we work and our general satisfaction with our life situations. We are not helpless to change. One day people are going to get so tired of it and the folks in charge better watch out. Because their huge egos, power and force will be useless.

[dakotagopher]

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"lets not forget that we never had a problem with Saddam killing his people until he disobeyed us"
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Our being in Iraq has nothing to do with Saddam "disobeying us" - it is a result of a strategic theory (the so called "neoconservative theory") that in the wake of 9-11 we need to be more proactive with entities (especially those with ties to radical Islam) that have a liklihood of supplying terror groups with WMD. Were it not for this, Bush & Co may have continued Clinton's "policy" of ignoring the thousands of deaths Saddam caused/causes out of political expediency. Also, incidentally, if you add in the numbers of adults that this regime has killed and the number easily surpasses a million. I'm not so much "harping" about children as making a point that we're dealing with a guy with the moral compass of Hitler. (Age old question: if you could go back in time with a rifle and shoot Hitler in the 1930s, would you do it? Why/why not?) We have sat by while a million+ innocents, many of them kids, were murdered by Saddam. What is our excuse? (The argument that our policies have also resulted in deaths, somehow justifying/excusing Saddam's actions, is moot - show me a single example of one American policy that had an INTENT of causing innocents to die).

Saddam has to go, and we all should be ashamed we have not demanded our leaders take care of this problem sooner. Incidentally, I do believe that Bush has genuine concern for the people Saddam persecutes.

I don't think Bush would have allowed the Rwandan genocide to occur on his watch either (another great shame on our country; our leaders knew it was coming and did nothing to intervene. Guess when we said "never again" after the holocaust, we were only referring to "never again if White Christian/Jewish people are the ones being exterminated. If it's blacks or Muslims we'll just turn our back"). Disgusting.
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"The fact that CEO's can make that much money and not do much except make phone calls and meet with people is a crime. You should get what you put in. His service was merely a service, no better than a mechanic or a janitor. I have no concern for the stock holders opinions of him either, because they are getting profit for no work. "
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You contradict yourself - you state we each should "get what we put in" but then conclude that ultimately all services rendered are equal anyway; makes no sense, sorry!!!

Read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. Excellent book, written 60+ years ago by an author with extensive first hand knowledge of the subject at hand. Unfortunately, some people are just better suited to Achieve (based on personality, talent, education, ambition, intelligence, etc) than others are. Therefore, the businessowner will make more money than the guy that sweeps the floor for him. In a capatalistic society, the "achievements of the Achievers" result in their personal reward (wealth & personal recognition) and in most cases also result in the creation of opportunity for other members of society that are not as well suited to Achieve.

I do agree with you that many of our channels are filled with trash, but our media does provide us with the best and broadest array of opinions in history, with no fear of retaliation for voicing opposition to our own gov't. Most nations on this planet cannot make that assertion. My neighbor has a dish and gets Al Jazeera (spelling?) which has been interesting to watch duringi this war so far. In my opinion, it is much more biased than "our" news services, but i guess that is not too surprising.

I am a huge proponent of alternative energy, especially wind & solar, but best estimates are that we're a generation away from truely feasible technology in these areas. In the interim we've got to make do with nuclear and renewables. That means we have to live in the real world and bite the bullet with respect to protecting our supply side vulnerabilities. I don't want drilling in ANWAR either and i know that that is a selfish opinion, but I hold it nonetheless.

[Benwa]

Our original conflict with saddam (Desert storm) was about him disobeying us. And that is where the comment comes from. He was applauded by american leadership for a long time, while he was doing horrible things. If he made a human rights violation to quell an upsising, the Rulers told him, "good job on controlling a situation." But never did they say, "hey, its not cool to shoot a large crowd of people in the street." Why do you think I'm justifying or excusing his actions by saying our policies are atrocious as well. I say those things because we are in no position to preach about ethical behavior. The intent of the US in situations where human rights were violated is up to speculation. Mostly it was to gain control of an area by withdrawing support. What happens when you stop humanitarian aid to a country? No food=die. it causes a disturbance, the people wig out and kill eachother and when the country is on the brink of toppling, here comes Uncle Sam to save the day. We put in officials who will mind their P's and Q's. (I'll have to get my books together to site you specific examples, but I will)

There is no difference between Bush and our other presidents. It's no secret you have to be cozy with certain entities in order to become president. You need money, big money. companies have money, big money. So in order to be elected it is almost certain you have obligations to a company. Unless your like H. Ross and can finance most of your own campaign. Would bush have gone into Rwanda, doubtful. Only if there was something there to make the trip worth it. Dead brown people ain't enough. Never has been, never will.

Getting what you put in: I was saying that Cheney's service was of no more importance than a mechanic. He didn't get what he put in, he got more than what he put in. I don't understand what you mean by saying it doesn't make sense.

Our media channels bring us a broad range of opinions? What about the opinions of Iraq. A reporter just got fired for getting in the mix with Iraq. Hows that for freedom of speech. There are certain stopper valves in the communication system to ensure we see what we are wanted to see. Most communications are controlled by wealthy people who have other business interest. Lots of money=cozy with gov't officials. Does this have to be mapped out? Also those who move up in mang't position in media, share the ideals of the owners. They say "Of course, we can say whatever we want." It happens that the way they feel coincides with the owner. For them, they are free, but it offers a very biased news coverage. Try to talk to some people who've worked in a television or radio station. It's so political it nauseating. The most powereful weapon we have isn't the smart bomb, but communication. You control the information and you control the people. Al Jazeera is probably biased, but US is very biased as well.

The reason alt energy is a generation away is because the technology has been stiffled. Are we supposed to believe we can devise a bomb to strike within inches, but we can't make a quality solar cell? Hogwash.