Gas prices?

[jdt141]

How high will they go? Are we carpooling, driving less, choosing alternative forms of transportation?


I'm personally riding my motorcycle a whooole lot more.

[tina1979]

gas is up tp 3.19 at some of the stations here. I had to go to 3. the first 2 were out of gas, the last one I had to wait to get to the pump then wait in line to pay the cashier.

This sucks!

[steph78]

If you didn't read my other post, it did briefly go up to over $5/gallon for regular and $6.00/gallon for premium here in Atl. yesterday before the governor stepped in to prevent price gouging.

Realistically? I think it will hover in the low to mid $3 for the next couple weeks and then SLOWLY go back down a little to what it has been the last few weeks.

[pisces2473]

I have no idea how high it will go, but I do know that I cannot get around without my car. The trains in my town only run into the big city in the morning, not the opposite direction to where I work, plus I'd have to drive to the train station anyway. Biking is too far, and I can't carpool.

[blueyes]

Ditto to that - I'm only 13 miles out of the city, but there's no bike paths and there's no close busline (can you believe I've never been on a bus in my life?). Pgh has no rail system to speak of either. Carpooling is iffy - with how sketchy our work schedules get, it's hard to coordinate from day to day. I have to drive. :(

(This is probably the point where I tell you that I have lived in the woods on 11 acres since I was three, and my nearest neighbor is a half-mile away. Yeah. We drive everywhere.)

[jdt141]

I have no idea how high it will go, but I do know that I cannot get around without my car. The trains in my town only run into the big city in the morning, not the opposite direction to where I work, plus I'd have to drive to the train station anyway. Biking is too far, and I can't carpool.


ugh, that sucks. i feel your pain. there is virtually no mass transit in detroit, and i don't really enjoy riding my motorcycle on the highway (people up here drive like blind men, i swear). its ok for local stuff, but long hauls (to/from class) it sucks.

oh, and gas went up .60 cents overnight here. WTF? :eek:

[biodork]

I have a hybrid and I'm still worried because I drive usually an hour and a half to and from work every day. So I'm still filling up once a week.

[labrat2111]

I think prices in areas will touch $4 or more but I think largely prices will hover in the low $3/gallon range. Locally things will vary a huge amount. I mean I read that the reason for the scramble in Atlanta is that the gas there comes into Atlanta from a pipeline that gets the gas from the refineries knocked out from the storm. For now there are lots of problems with the supply chain including just getting crude to functioning refineries (some crude terminals and pipelines that feed refineries in Texas are located in Louisiana and were damaged or destroyed). Also of course there are the reduction in number of refineries running and the problems with shipping gas out.

It is going to be most chaotic for the next week or two until the situation is sorted out. I'm pretty sure there will be local shortages until refineries are up and running plus the companies may order more gas from Europe but of course that takes time to get here. However some of the damage is severe and gas prices are going to stay high for awhile plus I feel bad for everyone who uses natural gas or fuel oil for heating as those folks are going to take a big hit.

For now I can't carpool but I always consolidate my trips getting groceries or running errands on my way home from work. I'll probably do some shopping on my way to my friend's cookout this weekend to avoid an extra trip to hagerstown. Also I am not going home to see my parents this weekend. I figure I can always take another vacation day some friday or monday and drive out and see them when things are more sane.

[mishl982]

I could probably afford to pay the high gas prices, but if there is a shortage, I don't know what I would do. Right now the only places I drive really are to and from work. If I had to start taking mass transit I would have to start leaving earlier to take in account the commuting time. Plus several bus transfers :googly:

I can't work from home anymore, mostly because all my work is done on our servers and I don't get access to that from home.

[shimmer728]

The gas supply had better hold steady until after this weekend--otherwise, I'm likely to get stranded somewhere. :haha:

[Cole]

I'm actually really glad to be moving downtown and not taking a car with me. I'll be a bike commuter again in 3 weeks :)

Gas went up .30 overnight in Madison. they're having problems with people siphoning gas. :eek:

[Brillo25]

Great. I'm up to about $320-$350 a month for gas expenditures now with my commute. Where I live that's practically rent.

[heatherf]

Hmmm....how high will they go? I gots no idea.

[RayJ1977]

One thing people don't realize is that long-term, if this gamble in Iraq pays off, it will break the oil cartels and oil prices will fall out. Gas prices could easily return to the 50-75 cent range.

[heatherf]

One thing people don't realize is that long-term, if this gamble in Iraq pays off, it will break the oil cartels and oil prices will fall out. Gas prices could easily return to the 50-75 cent range.

MUST QUOTE THIS! I thought we didn't go to Iraq for the oil?

[steph78]

I think prices in areas will touch $4 or more but I think largely prices will hover in the low $3/gallon range. Locally things will vary a huge amount. I mean I read that the reason for the scramble in Atlanta is that the gas there comes into Atlanta from a pipeline that gets the gas from the refineries knocked out from the storm. For now there are lots of problems with the supply chain including just getting crude to functioning refineries (some crude terminals and pipelines that feed refineries in Texas are located in Louisiana and were damaged or destroyed). Also of course there are the reduction in number of refineries running and the problems with shipping gas out.

It is going to be most chaotic for the next week or two until the situation is sorted out. I'm pretty sure there will be local shortages until refineries are up and running plus the companies may order more gas from Europe but of course that takes time to get here. However some of the damage is severe and gas prices are going to stay high for awhile plus I feel bad for everyone who uses natural gas or fuel oil for heating as those folks are going to take a big hit.


Yup, the news says that our Atlanta craziness was due to a break in a pipeline that supplies about 80% of our gas. Evidently this is fixed now but is only operating at 35% of capacity. (Don't know what % it operates at for normal demand.) I am sure that this being fixed will help calm people down and keep prices from going up so much.

Also, we have stricter regulations for what fuel can be sold here in the metro area (they are stricter with the additives in the fuel here so that emissions are reduced as much as possible in the already polluted metro area) and apparently the state/national government is temporarily lifting these restrictions so now we can use the same gas that people in rural areas or the northeast or wherever use and they can spread the fuel around the country where it is needed better without having to worry about what additives are in what fuel.

[RayJ1977]

We didn't heather. But that WILL happen with a democratic middle east. I'm going back to Lindsay now.

[heatherf]

We didn't heather. But that WILL happen with a democratic middle east. I'm going back to Lindsay now.

Let me reload my sling with some more shit..... ;)

[jdt141]

One thing people don't realize is that long-term, if this gamble in Iraq pays off, it will break the oil cartels and oil prices will fall out. Gas prices could easily return to the 50-75 cent range.

uhhh really?

Seeing that the main problem is the lack of refining capacity, not so much the supply of crude, really govern gas prices in this country, the war in Iraq will do nothing to reduce gas prices.

What economist is saying that a democracy in Iraq will break the OPEC cartel? Please, do show me some literature on the subject, because I haven't read it.

[RayJ1977]

I'm glad Lindsay loves me.

[heatherf]

I'm glad Lindsay loves me.

From the looks of things....Lindsay loves crack and heroin. Oh, and hair bleach. :rolleyes:

[wordsmith]

And probably not food, I'm thinking.

[tdko]

Oil companies are already borrowing oil from the govt's emergency stockpile after Katrina kicked the shit out of the off-shore rigs. (Some of them were literally pulled off their pylons and sunk into the sea without a trace.) How long is that going to last? Once the full extent of the damage is apparent and pessimism strikes (again), prices will shoot up some more.

I picked $4.50+ in the poll because I don't see a reason for it to come down. Demand will only increase as time goes on, and nothing in the short term will affect that. Maybe over the next ten years, the supply of hybrids/fuel cell/electric cars will increase, but not in the next 6-12 months. You think China's going to start using less? Their economy's just beginning to boom.

And gas won't hit $0.50 for a long time, regardless of the creation of a democracy in Iraq. (Which I also don't think is likely.) The oil companies are huge and employ millions of people. Do you think the gov't will let the profit margins of ChevronTexaco sink into the sea and watch them lay off a sizeable portion of their labor force? Not anytime soon, not with a congressional election season coming up.

[HereComes30]

Seeing that the main problem is the lack of refining capacity, not so much the supply of crude, really govern gas prices in this country, the war in Iraq will do nothing to reduce gas prices.

And why do we have a limited refining capacity? Why have their not been new refineries built since the 1970's till recently when the government approved a new one? One word answer...environmentalists

[k.monster]

It's also hard to tell what gas prices are going to be because they vary so much from state to state. I paid 2.78 this morning and for me, that's a lot - esp. considering the whole atlanta thing yesterday. (I saw that on the news and my jaw just dropped - that must have been INSANE)

[jrwilheim]

Living in New York, I take busses and subways everywhere I go so am not really affected by the price of gas at the pump. However, heating oil is pretty pricey here, and New York winters are cold, so I'm expecting we'll really be paying through the nose for heating starting in October or November. I suppose if the price of gas rises too much, they might raise the cost of MetroCard (the bus and subway pass in New York) to pay for the gas on buses, but the fleet is switching over to hybrid electric buses pretty quickly--I see more and more of them everywhere I go in New York. Also, cab rides will go up because the taxi companies will insist on getting a fare increase for medallion cabs. I really don't want to see cab rates go up by another 10 cents per 5th of a mile--if they do that, I won't even take them to the airport anymore.

[tdko]

And why do we have a limited refining capacity? Why have their not been new refineries built since the 1970's till recently when the government approved a new one? One word answer...environmentalists
Seriously? Thank god for environmentalists, the only thing we're killing with pollution is ourselves. The earth will be fine. (My favorite example: pollution depletes the ozone layer. That causes the polar ice caps to melt. The earth floods, killing most of humankind. The increased water creates more ozone, filling the hole in the ozone layer. Earth survives, man dies.)

Let's also look at our current administration, who chose to endorse gas economy instead of alternative fuels five years ago and in doing so removed any impetus for car companies to invest in R&D in that direction. Now what do we have? The H2, millions of SUVs, and three ugly-ass hybrids. (Um, hello? Why does anyone want the Honda Insight?)

[HereComes30]

Simple supply and demand...more people buy hybrids, the companies will make more of them which in turn will mean they will put more money into R&D for them. Yes, the hybrids in most cases are damn ugly...but that is the governments fault or the fault of the car makers? Or the fault of the public that maybe just needs to create voice loud enough to Honda or whoever saying, if you build nice ones..we will buy them.

Pollution is much worse in other countries and they have even been around longer, but we are the evil ones? And sometimes, IMO, you have to look at the balance...we can put pollution/environmental controls in place and it will mean production will be more expensive wich means lost jobs, increase cost of goods for us, and a slow down in the economy only to find that those measures are ineffective because it is based on research/studies which are not accurate, not thorough, and there is zero evidence that the earth is any worse off than it was hundreds of years ago. Many of the heating, cooling, weather patterns are cyclical...for example, I just heard today that a UN study of the environment found that the average mean strength of hurricanes has decreased since it was recorded in 1940 and the number of major storms, hurricanes, tornados, hail storms, etc has also decreased.

No...I don't want to have my kids walk around with air masks on and there are some things that are highly dangerous to the environment...granted. But there is also a point where it is extremism and harmful. I think of my hometown where there is a major landfill. There is runoff from the landfill which could be burned, cause no harm to the enviornment or the community, and could provide a massive amount of energy for the community practically cutting the electric and heat bills in half. But the community will not allow them to do it because of the one study that found that it may be harmful....not is, but may be...versus the half dozen reports that reported no harm.

Another one of my favorite examples...just east of here, they have installed half a dozen HUGE windmills to generate power. An effort to use natural resources other than oil, to use alternate and environmentally friendly resources. And the result of them doing that? Environmentalists complaining that building them destroyed trees, interupted the ecosystem, and that now birds were dying because they were running into the huge blades of the wind mills. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[biodork]

Hey I like my civic hybrid, I think it's cute. Looks like a regular civic. :p

[labrat2111]

Well hybrids will make an increasing impact in the next ten years. It's a good way to conserve gas and with the people working on the plugin hybrid idea it will stretch things even further. With time more people will buy them and I'm sure we'll get more stylish looking hybrids. Just think how far hybrids have come in the last few years. Even 2 or 3 years ago there were essentially none on the road and now (and I live in a bumfuck area) I see them quite a bit on my commute to work or parked down the street from me in my tiny town. Honda and Toyota certainly have the right idea and in time they will be rewarded. Ford and GMC are still clinging to the SUV and large trucks and in time are going to get plowed under by Honda and Toyota as gas prices rise.

I think more refineries will need to be built but people do have a point when they talk about the environment and getting permits and all that. I'm not sure specifically but to the best of my knowledge it would takes a year or two just to get permits and fight all the court battles to be able to break new ground on a refinery in the continental US. I would imagine the likely spot where new refineries will actually be built is offshore in the Caribbean although obviously they will still be vulnerable to hurricanes.

Once Iraq gets a stable government and the insurgency fades Iraqi will help ease prices in world oil markets but it will take time and I believe that we will never ever see $1/gallon gas again. There is simply too much demand and not enough supply anymore. Iraq has large reserves but for now Iraq has worn out and falling apart oil infrastructure. They need massive investment to even get production levels above what they were before the war. Also the insurgency needs to be contained -- they don't even use their northern pipeline on a regular basis because insurgents blow holes in it faster than it can be fixed. The only thing that would massively cut demand is a worldwide depression and I doubt many of us would wish for that.

[tdko]

Hey I like my civic hybrid, I think it's cute. Looks like a regular civic. :p
They're the only ones that aren't ugly, IMO. I used to think that hybrids were designed ugly on purpose, in a conspiracy to keep the technology from taking off. I mean, they couldn't make a nice-looking Prius?

You've got studies, I've got studies. The point is there's rarely a one-word answer for anything, much less a topic as complex as the global oil economy. By reducing it to an attack on a group you are biased against diminishes our ability to have a reasonable conversation.

Your story about your hometown landfill misses something crucial. You're blaming environmentalists, but you state it was a community decision. Did Greenpeace pay them to vote that way? Did Ralph Nader give them all free subscriptions to Consumer Reports? I imagine that your community made as informed a decision as they could, and since both sides probably got a fair hearing in front of the city council, you can't blame it entirely on "extremism."

Supply and demand only tells part of the story regarding hybrids. The initial R&D was subsidized by the gov't, but the President put the bulk of the money towards fuel economy, not hybrid engines. Tech like that doesn't appear out of thin air; the gov't invests in it to get it started. But the heavy R&D could have begun years earlier if the President had chosen to, but he chose to favor the oil companies instead.

[Mad Dawg]

Wow... This thread is just teaming with misinformation and conspiracy theories.

The gas station across the street from my office is already $0.10 per gallon down from yesterday. The tapping of the SPR and the reopening of the two major pipelines running through the New Orleans area should see this trend taking place across the country. Texas refineries do not rely on New Orleans as a port. They are mostly fed by port cities in Texas like Beaumont, Port Arthur, Houston, Galveston and others. Texas refineries, which represent the overwhelming bulk of the United States' refining capacity, should still be operating at full or near-full capacity.

I do see some supply issues, though. The two pipelines that were reopened will not be at full capacity until it is possible and absolutely safe to do so. Both pipelines feed the East Coast. Also, barge traffic up and down the Mississippi may have been affected. This affects the states along the Mississippi and states along some of her tributaries like the Ohio. The refineries in and around New Orleans will have to be brought back online. Same with the deep sea exploration rigs in the Mississippi Canyon and other parts of the Gulf of Mexico that were in Katrina's path.

I assure you that hurricane damage to those facilities is limited. They are built for worst case scenario, and run very efficiently. TDKO, where have you heard that entire rigs are missing in the Gulf of Mexico? I have heard no such news. So unless a little earlier today the looters became REALLY brazen and gained access to an ocean-going vessel, I doubt that. There has been one report of a rig that was in dock for repairs being ripped from its moorings and is now wedged under a bridge in Mobile Bay. I can confirm that story because I have seen an AP photograph of it.

[wordsmith]

Another one of my favorite examples...just east of here, they have installed half a dozen HUGE windmills to generate power. An effort to use natural resources other than oil, to use alternate and environmentally friendly resources. And the result of them doing that? Environmentalists complaining that building them destroyed trees, interupted the ecosystem, and that now birds were dying because they were running into the huge blades of the wind mills. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Nah. We have a wind farm here, too, almost 100 turbines hooked up to a ComEd power grid. Planning and constructing it meant that all kinds of ecological profiling and environmental studies had to be done beforehand to ensure that it wasn't causing major problems for the ecosystem, was located in a manner compatible with migratory routes, and called for no removal of existing trees. Environmentalists pushed it through, they didn't hinder it. It was done in an environmentally responsible manner, with the least disruption possible.

[tdko]

TDKO, where have you heard that entire rigs are missing in the Gulf of Mexico? I have heard no such news. So unless a little earlier today the looters became REALLY brazen and gained access to an ocean-going vessel, I doubt that. There has been one report of a rig that was in dock for repairs being ripped from its moorings and is now wedged under a bridge in Mobile Bay. I can confirm that story because I have seen an AP photograph of it.
I was reading through the WLOX blog online yesterday. I also followed a bunch of links from that site, so I couldn't tell you which one stated it. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll go looking for that site again and see what I can find.

[natbumpo]

I think we have a better chance of pissing oil than a democracy in Iraq helping oil prices for many reasons I won't go in to

[tdko]

TDKO, where have you heard that entire rigs are missing in the Gulf of Mexico?
Just a follow-up: http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-09-01-voa12.cfm, second paragraph. "With over 20 oil rigs reported missing in the Gulf and the region's oil output down nearly 95 percent, speculation about increased demand is fueling a buying frenzy." (emphasis added)

[C.J.]

One thing people don't realize is that long-term, if this gamble in Iraq pays off, it will break the oil cartels and oil prices will fall out. Gas prices could easily return to the 50-75 cent range.

What drug are you on, cause I'd like some. The US has just as much invested in oil (how do you think the BUSH family made its money) as Iraq does, there is no way prices will go to 50-75 cents. Furthermore, this "gamble" in Iraq is killing thousands of people each month. Or has that been forgotten.

[shimmer728]

Another one of my favorite examples...just east of here, they have installed half a dozen HUGE windmills to generate power. An effort to use natural resources other than oil, to use alternate and environmentally friendly resources. And the result of them doing that? Environmentalists complaining that building them destroyed trees, interupted the ecosystem, and that now birds were dying because they were running into the huge blades of the wind mills. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

And more are coming.

[mishl982]

They're the only ones that aren't ugly, IMO. I used to think that hybrids were designed ugly on purpose, in a conspiracy to keep the technology from taking off. I mean, they couldn't make a nice-looking Prius?
Hey Accord Hybrids are pretty hot :)

[Deadend]

And more are coming.

I'd like to know who these "environmentalists" are, because everyone I know loves the idea of these windmills.

I have heard of these critisizums. Usually they come from people that own adjacent land however, or hunting and angling socities who are very often environmental advocates because of their interest in preserving game. Those interested in sustainable development like myself don't nessearily share all of these groups views however. I believe a very large mistake in assuming everyone with environmental interests shares identical takes on everything has been made.

[AzureMoogle]

Wow... This thread is just teaming with misinformation and conspiracy theories.


Then I'll add another: the world is already dangerously close to being out of oil. ;)

[Deadend]

Then I'll add another: the world is already dangerously close to being out of oil. ;)

No, that's a geology theory.

A conspiracy theory would be that George Bush and Steve Jobs know all about it, but are keeping it locked away inside of disney world in order to protect the monopoly of their love child - bill gates

[shimmer728]

I'd like to know who these "environmentalists" are, because everyone I know loves the idea of these windmills.

I have heard of these critisizums. Usually they come from people that own adjacent land however, or hunting and angling socities who are very often environmental advocates because of their interest in preserving game. Those interested in sustainable development like myself don't nessearily share all of these groups views however. I believe a very large mistake in assuming everyone with environmental interests shares identical takes on everything has been made.

The environmentalists are exactly who you said they are--people who own adjacent land who fear noise pollution, etc. But you're right, they are in the minority.

[computer guy]

Ditto to that - I'm only 13 miles out of the city, but there's no bike paths and there's no close busline (can you believe I've never been on a bus in my life?). Pgh has no rail system to speak of either. Carpooling is iffy - with how sketchy our work schedules get, it's hard to coordinate from day to day. I have to drive. :(

(This is probably the point where I tell you that I have lived in the woods on 11 acres since I was three, and my nearest neighbor is a half-mile away. Yeah. We drive everywhere.)

You sure about the trains? When I've been to PGH on business, I've taken a train from downtown to station square and back. They don't have a subway or anything like that but, there are some rails. I don't think they go very far though.

I miss the days of having a job that sent me to client sites for a week... right now almost any job will do though.

[lynseymay]

I got so frustrated with gas prices that I decided to dish out $136 a month to take the train to work. I highly doubt that gas will EVER go back down to 50-75 cents. In fact I don't think they will go down under $2. Why would they? People are forced to pay that price. Oil companies are going to make more money if they charge more. I'm just sick and tired of people with huge gas hogging cars complaining about gas. Especially all of the people in CA who have them. If you're really pissed about gas, do what I did and trade in your SUV for a car and take the train to work if possible...

[wordsmith]

I'd like to know who these "environmentalists" are, because everyone I know loves the idea of these windmills.

I have heard of these critisizums. Usually they come from people that own adjacent land however, or hunting and angling socities who are very often environmental advocates because of their interest in preserving game. Those interested in sustainable development like myself don't nessearily share all of these groups views however. I believe a very large mistake in assuming everyone with environmental interests shares identical takes on everything has been made.

It's not environmentalists who oppose the windfarms locally. It's the urban transplants who bought up farmland to build large sprawling estates that they only live in on the weekends and don't like the pristine views of the countryside they are destroying to be interrupted by something that creates green energy.

[yankeeyosh]

Hey, how come this poll doesn't have an option for less than $3.75? I think that with the opening of the reserve oil that it shouldn't be too much more...perhaps $3.50, especially since things should calm down after Labor Day and the end of the driving season. That said, a big test for the economy will come if prices don't drop too much and this winter is colder than normal. Still, I think the US economy is sound enough to weather such a situation.