What do Women Want??? [Archive] - QLC Message Boards

ScottyTheBody

10-06-2005, 06:15 PM

I am a 20 year old (almost 21, probably a bit young for this board) male student and I have spent a great deal of time and thought into what it is exactly what women want.

All through high school I was the nice guy. The guy that everyone liked but nobody loved. If someone dropped something I usually picked it up for them, I held doors for people and smiled and said 'hi' frequently to anyone and everyone. I was often too nice to girls at my school. I would console them when their boyfriends/friends had treated them poorly. I was often told 'Why can't I date a guy like you' and 'There aren't enough nice guys like you in the world'.

But upon asking these girls out for a date I always got 'I like you but not in that sort of way' or 'I just wanna be friends'. Friends are great but I need a relationship. I soon discovered that women don't want a someone to be nice to them they want something else.

So when I entered University I became someone different. I became the tough, spontaneous, overconfident jerk that I thought women wanted :cool: . Surprisingly, every single woman that I asked out in University went out on a date with me :eek: . I could maintain this act for a while but once the relationship became more serious I once again became the nice guy that every woman supposedly wants and from there they quickly became bored and left. I've had enough of these weird mind games.

Anyways my question to you is what do women want? Do women even know what they want? Time and time again I keep hearing that they want the nice guy but my personal experience would suggest otherwise. Maybe women just want the jerk which is not who I truly am :( . Maybe the women around here are just weird. :confused:

Anyways thanks for reading and thanks for letting me rant. I feel much better actually. :)
I'm sure there have been many posts about this and I am sorry if it seems like I'm complaining.

marcy

10-06-2005, 06:22 PM

I could maintain this act for a while but once the relationship became more serious I once again became the nice guy that every woman supposedly wants and from there they quickly became bored and left.

Something about this doesn't add up to me. I have a hard to time believing that women "quickly become bored" with your niceness. Believe it or not, most women really DO want a nice guy. That said there is a difference between being nice and being needy or a pushover or spineless.

shimmer728

10-06-2005, 06:25 PM

This problem seems to be a common one.

I never got into the whole bad-boy thing, and I don't think I'm alone in that. However, most girls don't want a guy whom they can just walk all over--a doormat that refuses to disagree, EVER, and is basically kind of pussy-whipped.

I'm not saying you're like that. :) I'm just saying that there's a difference between being nice for the sake of being nice and being an, um, pandering ass. ;)

You're also pretty young, too. Maybe these girls you're dating need a few years to grow up.

In any case, welcome! :) I think there are a few other people around your age on here.

spokes

10-06-2005, 07:00 PM

i think that the dating qualities that one is looking for in thier late teens/early twenties are slightly different than the qualities one is looking for in thier 30's
for example the girls who dig the bad boys in thier 20's realize that the bad boys in thier 30's are just bad boys who may never be in a position to offer any type of stability.

and1grad

10-06-2005, 07:16 PM

Ya you went about it ALL wrong in high school. There's a reason why they say "nice guys finish last." Being the nice guy will never work out in your favor. For some reason, its mistaken for a lack of confidence. Some women read it as needing approval. Confidence may be the sexiest thing a man can offer. Also, never, AND I MEAN NEVER, ask a woman what another woman wants. You will be told every wrong thing under the sun. Ask a man that either has a woman or is essentially successful with them.

WeirdBrake

10-06-2005, 07:24 PM

Angyl

10-06-2005, 07:29 PM

I hate men that give me everything underneath the sun. It makes things way too wasy, and yes I do get bored. I'm not saying assholes get any ass either, but somewhere in the middle, where the guy is assertive and cinfident, but allows me my say.

That is ideal.

jcm12

10-06-2005, 07:35 PM

what and1grad said.

Short answers to what women want:

spontaneity
confidence
indepedence
real masculinity, no egomaniac or macho dudes
some like guys with a hard exterior, but a soft interior
oh and being a good lover helps too :)

Angyl

10-06-2005, 07:42 PM

J-girl

10-06-2005, 07:48 PM

To answer your question- just be yourself and someone will fall for what you are not what you are trying to be i.e. cocky, jerky etc etc.

You can get any girl you want by not being yourself but you cant really keep every girl. You cant just date whoever you want. Thats the truth.

jcm12

10-06-2005, 07:48 PM

yeah that. Where can i get one of those?
we're in short supply, I wouldn't know.

and1grad

10-06-2005, 07:57 PM

wordsmith

10-06-2005, 07:57 PM

You can be confident and be a nice guy.

J-girl

10-06-2005, 08:00 PM

Sigh...*shakes head* This is exactly the kind of counterfeit a girl will tell you.
Huh?!?

Why would anyone date anyone who is not being themselves. If the guy is not being himself in the first place then she is dating his fake personality, he is obviously going to lose her sooner or later.

and1grad

10-06-2005, 08:03 PM

shimmer728

10-06-2005, 08:03 PM

Also, never, AND I MEAN NEVER, ask a woman what another woman wants. You will be told every wrong thing under the sun.

Why? I think I gave a pretty honest answer. I will not put up with a guy who treats me like crap. I'm not saying I want someone to wipe my ass for me, but I do not want a disrespectful "bad boy."

J-girl

10-06-2005, 08:06 PM

If it was as simple as be yourself, so many wouldnt have so much trouble. I never said to not be yourself. I just think its kinda lame as "advice." Its like telling someone "stop looking and you'll find someone."
I am not saying stop looking. I said stop trying to be something you are not and keep looking.
Yeah build up your confidence but dont go around being a jerk. Women dont like jerks. Thats like trying to lure women with your money. Its the same thing.

and1grad

10-06-2005, 08:06 PM

It doesnt work, shim. A woman will tell you all kinds of things, most of em things that they, specifically, like and it leads you on a long road to nowhere.

J-girl

10-06-2005, 08:07 PM

Thats why you dont listen to anyone you just follow your heart.

shimmer728

10-06-2005, 08:07 PM

It doesnt work, shim. A woman will tell you all kinds of things, most of em things that they, specifically, like and it leads you on a long road to nowhere.

Well, that's true. I was speaking from my point of view, but surely I can't be the only woman out there who is not wowed by assholes. I'm not that weird. :p

and1grad

10-06-2005, 08:09 PM

Well, that's true. I was speaking from my point of view, but surely I can't be the only woman out there who is not wowed by assholes. I'm not that weird. :p
I dunno shim. You ARE pretty weird. Then there's that whole matter of your taste in men... :evil:

shimmer728

10-06-2005, 08:10 PM

You do have a point. ;)

and1grad

10-06-2005, 08:13 PM

Hey, your pics with Dub in central park are still among my fave of all time. Those came out REALLY well.

wordsmith

10-06-2005, 08:35 PM

It's true that it's not as "easy" as "just be yourself."

The truth is that "being yourself" ISN'T going to attract everybody. Some people are just not gonna be particularly attracted to who you really and truly are, naturally.

But it will attract somebody. And if it's somebody who also happens to have attributes that attract you, then you've got common ground to start from. And in the end, you really can't do anything but be yourself. Because who you are is going to come out in the long run anyway, guaranteed.

wordsmith

10-06-2005, 08:40 PM

Also, never, AND I MEAN NEVER, ask a woman what another woman wants. You will be told every wrong thing under the sun.

With all due respect, this seems pretty obvious. What? Women have varying and diverse opinions and tastes? The don't ALL find the same stuff attractive and appealing? THEY DON'T ALL WANT OR LIKE THE SAME THINGS??? Shocking. :p

Obviously, no one single woman can speak for "what women want." Or even what YOUR woman wants. Your woman is the only one who can do that.

AznHisoka

10-06-2005, 08:47 PM

wordsmith

10-06-2005, 08:51 PM

AznHisoka

10-06-2005, 08:54 PM

I always dated nice guys in high school. Yeah, guys that probably other people thought were weenies...but you know what? I had an awesome time, they ruled. I have never wanted an aggressive, tough guy. Not ever.

And, to the previous poster, I think you'll find PLENTY of women on here who do NOT want a man to pay for their meals or anything else. And if you think women only have to "act and look pretty," then quit singling out the ones were that's the only thing they have going for them.

Plenty that do not? Well do they say anything about it to their bfs? Do they pay at least half of the time? I'm not singling anyone out. I'm simply stating that generally, women only have to act and look pretty in a relationship. Too many times have I seen girls just sit back and relax, while the guy does everything.

wordsmith

10-06-2005, 08:55 PM

Sorry your relationships are like that.

lilyflower

10-06-2005, 08:59 PM

ScottyTheBody

10-06-2005, 09:13 PM

Plenty that do not? Well do they say anything about it to their bfs? Do they pay at least half of the time? I'm not singling anyone out. I'm simply stating that generally, women only have to act and look pretty in a relationship. Too many times have I seen girls just sit back and relax, while the guy does everything.

:( Unfortunately this is not far from the truth. In my life (and on these message boards in fact) I hear about how a woman would not date a man because he wanted her to cover the tab (and I quote "and he even expected me to pay the bill afterwards"), but I have not yet seen a man say I wouldn't date her because she wouldn't cover even half of the tab. I could be completely off, and I hope that I truly am but this is just MY personal observations/experiences.

Now personally I don't mind paying for all of the date, I mean money is just money. It comes and goes (Too bad it goes faster than it comes :p ).

By the way thanks for the feedback. I think I'll just be myself, and if they're are not willing to accept me for who I am they aren't worth it.

WeirdBrake

10-06-2005, 09:18 PM

Sorry, and1 but WRONG. Some of us are single because we can't FIND the nice guys. Then again, I didn't get as desperate as Shim did about it :p

(I keed, I keed, WB! Don't go all piney on my ass!)

See, the evil scientists and the cowardly journalists are no match for the virtuous lawyer. :twisted: :p :D

Alright, time for the gals on here to take a stoning from malicious truth. I've seen a lot of talk on these boards of girls getting involved with complete losers. I mean... lyin', cheatin', fucked up, pathetic losers straight outta a country song. Now... I'm not one to cast aspersions... in fact, I'm not even sure if I spelled "aspersions" correctly, and after 6 Coors, I aint lookin' it up, but can you understand how skeptical us guys are going to be of the female claim that girls "just want nice guys?" After all, these a-hole losers GOT GIRLFRIENDS... regardless of their ability to keep them or their ability to have a good, healthy relationship with them. The fact of the matter is, these a-hole loser guys GOT them, and I-- a charming, articulate, cute, nice LAW STUDENT-- was single and lonely until the age of 25. And I know there are lots of guys on here-- equally good-looking and with equally solid credentials-- who have entered their mid-20s single and lonely and without Girlfriend #1. So how are we as guys expected to explain that? How are we expected to feel about that?

Look, I know this is a sensitive topic, but this needs to be said because it keeps coming up. You can dismiss me as bitter, but let's face it, as one of the big fish around these parts, I don't think you can afford to. ;) Simply put, there is a reason that I, and1grad, and many other male posters think and feel exactly as we do. It isn't that we're just cynical. It's that we've been paying attention.

AznHisoka

10-06-2005, 09:20 PM

Sorry your relationships are like that.

I never said my relationships are like that. I was making a general statement that applies to most relationships. I ain't pussyfooting.

labrat2111

10-06-2005, 09:22 PM

It doesnt work, shim. A woman will tell you all kinds of things, most of em things that they, specifically, like and it leads you on a long road to nowhere.

Well what women say may or may not be wrong. Once I get to know a girl a little I watch her actions and go from that. A girl who says she is low maintenance and yet expects you to do and pay for and plan everything is not low maintenance no matter how many times she says it.

But I do think (and this is not a slam at women) that women tend to have a more "romantic" (ie. prince who will sweep them off their feet kind of thing) view of relationships and also because often (and I'm not saying always or with everyone) they are on the receiving end of dating they think that dating and relationships just happen which is why you often hear advice such as: just be yourself or stop looking and then you'll find someone. I swear finding a girlfriend sometimes seems like a second job :rolleyes:

shimmer728

10-06-2005, 09:35 PM

shimmer728

10-06-2005, 09:36 PM

Hey, your pics with Dub in central park are still among my fave of all time. Those came out REALLY well.

Oh, thank you! :)

lilyflower

10-06-2005, 09:39 PM

See, the evil scientists and the cowardly journalists are no match for the virtuous lawyer. :twisted: :p :D

Alright, time for the gals on here to take a stoning from malicious truth. I've seen a lot of talk on these boards of girls getting involved with complete losers. I mean... lyin', cheatin', fucked up, pathetic losers straight outta a country song. Now... I'm not one to cast aspersions... in fact, I'm not even sure if I spelled "aspersions" correctly, and after 6 Coors, I aint lookin' it up, but can you understand how skeptical us guys are going to be of the female claim that girls "just want nice guys?" After all, these a-hole losers GOT GIRLFRIENDS... regardless of their ability to keep them or their ability to have a good, healthy relationship with them. The fact of the matter is, these a-hole loser guys GOT them, and I-- a charming, articulate, cute, nice LAW STUDENT-- was single and lonely until the age of 25. And I know there are lots of guys on here-- equally good-looking and with equally solid credentials-- who have entered their mid-20s single and lonely and without Girlfriend #1. So how are we as guys expected to explain that? How are we expected to feel about that?

Look, I know this is a sensitive topic, but this needs to be said because it keeps coming up. You can dismiss me as bitter, but let's face it, as one of the big fish around these parts, I don't think you can afford to. ;) Simply put, there is a reason that I, and1grad, and many other male posters think and feel exactly as we do. It isn't that we're just cynical. It's that we've been paying attention.

Well, um, where the hell ARE you guys? Seriously, the main reason I'm single is because I got damn tired of being treated like crap. So, nice guys of QLC where do YOU hang out? Where do we find you?

Also, I hate to say this, but let's go there - a lot of guys have a lot of really fucking unrealistic expectations for looks. If a girl isn't a size 2, model clone, some guys will not even LOOK at her. As one of the "non-traditional beauties" out there, I can tell you that I SELDOM get approached. And I'm a pretty awesome person and damn smart to boot. Forgive me here, it's been a long day so I'm going to make the rest of my point by a lyric from Avenue Q

I'm kinda pretty
And pretty damn smart
I like romantic things like music and art
And as you know I have a gigantic heart
So why don't I have a boyfriend?
Fuck, it sucks to be me

I think that sums most of single girls up on QLC pretty well. :)

lilyflower

10-06-2005, 09:41 PM

ScottyTheBody

10-06-2005, 09:44 PM

shimmer728

10-06-2005, 09:47 PM

Don't be insulted by what I am going to say because I think its great that you and some of the women on these boards throw in $$$ for the tab more often than not. I think that's great.

But unfortunately more often than not does not imply that you always throw in money for the tab. Thus the man covers the rest and those times that you don't throw in he covers all of the tab.

And thus the man covers the cost.

Once again I have no problem covering the date :) because it is just money but I don't like to deny facts.

No, definitely not always. Sometimes I mooch off the future lawyer! :huge:

(But that's because he insists.)

ebruening

10-06-2005, 09:55 PM

I have dated the "doormat" sort of guy. He was EXTREMELY nice, VERY considerate, gave me whatever space I needed, and so on. However, more than once, I thought, "dear god, what is wrong with me? WHY won't you touch me? Why do I always have to be the one to start things? PLEASE stop asking if you can kiss me. Dammit, all I want is some overconfident lovin' for once!"

I know exactly who I want at this point - a supposedly "reformed" bad boy. If he ends up screwing me over (if we even get together, that is), I have nobody to blame but myself...and I will not say, "men are jerks." I have no problem admitting that I've gone in asking to get hurt, because I know the guy, I know how he acts, and having an emotionally attached relationship with him is going to be a tall order. With this particular guy, I know his personality well enough so that I will not wonder, "why do I fall for the wrong guys?" in the event that our possible relationship doesn't work out. As I'm a girl, I'll answer the question "what do women want?" on a purely personal basis: I want one particular guy, with whom I have a shaky chance at a fulfilling relationship. I cannot blame anyone but myself if it doesn't work out, and I will try my best to not let it cloud my judgments of men. However, I'd caution anyone against reading my comments and using them as proof that women "really want bad boys." Not all women do. At this stage in my life, I want someone who used to - and possibly still does - fit that mold.

shimmer728

10-06-2005, 09:55 PM

Simply put, girls are very demanding... which is no problem. The problem is girls just expect all these perfect qualities and don't do nothing of their own to deserve it. They want the man to pay for their meals, and take them home, and be there for them constantly. All girls need to do is act and look pretty. They do not want any responsibilities of their own. Heck, some of them want the man to do the cooking, and cleaning now - EVERYTHING.

Well, hell. If I can find a man to cook, clean AND foot the bill for everything, of course I'm going to tap that ass!

carrot3124

10-06-2005, 09:56 PM

Being too nice won't get you anywhere. At least that's what I've found with the guys I've dated. I was with a guy who let me step all over him. I could cheat on him (flame away everyone), and he would take me right back because he "loved" me. It was always my way, or no way. I've come to realize that I hate that!

I like a guy that will stand up for himself. He can be a jerk sometimes, as most men do, and then come back to me and apologize and show a softer side. I like a guy who challenges me, who's not afraid to point it out if I'm wrong. He's gotta be romantic and do the whole flowers and dinner thing from time to time, but then he's gotta be able to get down and dirty! Too many nice guys turn out to be the "pushover"......many girls do it as well. It's really more of finding a happy medium between the jerk and the nice guy. Other than that, I like a guy that is:
ambitious, social, athletic, intelligent, a family man,
romantic (at times), likes to cuddle up and watch movies, and just flat out loves and appreciates me for who I am. I could go on, but I won't bore you.

Maybe my perceptions of the ideal man are completely wacked out, but I know of at least one other woman that feels the same way!

carrot3124

10-06-2005, 09:57 PM

Hey Allison! My man does all of the laundry, I could rent him out once a week! I'm sure he would not appreciate me saying this stuff...lol

shimmer728

10-06-2005, 09:59 PM

Hey Allison! My man does all of the laundry, I could rent him out once a week! I'm sure he would not appreciate me saying this stuff...lol

He definitely sounds like a keeper!

ScottyTheBody

10-06-2005, 10:00 PM

Well, um, where the hell ARE you guys? Seriously, the main reason I'm single is because I got damn tired of being treated like crap. So, nice guys of QLC where do YOU hang out? Where do we find you?

Also, I hate to say this, but let's go there - a lot of guys have a lot of really fucking unrealistic expectations for looks. If a girl isn't a size 2, model clone, some guys will not even LOOK at her. As one of the "non-traditional beauties" out there, I can tell you that I SELDOM get approached. And I'm a pretty awesome person and damn smart to boot. Forgive me here, it's been a long day so I'm going to make the rest of my point by a lyric from Avenue Q

I'm kinda pretty
And pretty damn smart
I like romantic things like music and art
And as you know I have a gigantic heart
So why don't I have a boyfriend?
Fuck, it sucks to be me

I think that sums most of single girls up on QLC pretty well. :)

I agree with what you said about MANY men. Now I for one don't care if someone wears their pajamas around. What attracts me to women is intelligence (I'm kinda weird) :p . I always had a crush on the girl who was smarter than me, the one that would help me with my homework. If she got me thinking about physics, or anything philisophical or weird (like when we think we hear our voices but when a deaf person thinks what voice does he/she hear? Or do they think in pictures? Or something else) I think glasses make a girl hot. Man am I weird :neutral:

shimmer728

10-06-2005, 10:05 PM

I agree with what you said about MANY men. Now I for one don't care if someone wears their pajamas around. What attracts me to women is intelligence (I'm kinda weird) :p . I always had a crush on the girl who was smarter than me, the one that would help me with my homework. If she got me thinking about physics, or anything philisophical or weird (like when we think we hear our voices but when a deaf person thinks what voice does he/she hear? Or do they think in pictures? Or something else) I think glasses make a girl hot. Man am I weird :neutral:

Aw, I could hook you up with my sister. She's your age! :razz:

ebruening

10-06-2005, 10:07 PM

Hi, dude. I wear glasses. I think I look kind of weird in them, but hey, different strokes for different folks. I don't think it's weird to find smart people who wear glasses attractive.

ScottyTheBody

10-06-2005, 10:08 PM

Aw, I could hook you up with my sister. She's your age! :razz:

Is she smart?

lilyflower

10-06-2005, 10:41 PM

I agree with what you said about MANY men. Now I for one don't care if someone wears their pajamas around. What attracts me to women is intelligence (I'm kinda weird) :p . I always had a crush on the girl who was smarter than me, the one that would help me with my homework. If she got me thinking about physics, or anything philisophical or weird (like when we think we hear our voices but when a deaf person thinks what voice does he/she hear? Or do they think in pictures? Or something else) I think glasses make a girl hot. Man am I weird :neutral:

Hmm, so you think that rambling about biochemistry and Heidegger is sexy hmmm?

Where do you live again? ;)

ScottyTheBody

10-06-2005, 10:46 PM

Hmm, so you think that rambling about biochemistry and Heidegger is sexy hmmm?

Where do you live again? ;)

By the way I do think biochemistry or any girl in math or science or engineering is hot :twisted: . And I live in London ON.

lilyflower

10-06-2005, 10:55 PM

By the way I do think biochemistry or any girl in math or science or engineering is hot :twisted: . And I live in London ON.

Damn.

Oh well, can you please tell the rest of your gender that science girls are sexy? It'd be much appreciated.

J-girl

10-06-2005, 10:56 PM

By the way I do think biochemistry or any girl in math or science or engineering is hot :twisted: . And I live in London ON.

Scotty my sis is taking Bachelor of Med sciences at UWO and she is 19 :p

Damn- me and shim are pimping our sisters :D

dengeist

10-06-2005, 11:00 PM

I don't know, I think this is a question you should never ask. It's one of life's ultimate loaded questions. Like Chris Rock said: What do women want?!? EVERY-THANG!!!!

"Be yourself" or "Be a bad, bad boy" are too afterschool special or too crappy 80's movie.

Here's what you do. You can be yourself, that's good especially in philosophy. You can find someone being yourself, that's a given, as long as you're putting yourself out there. Just don't hope for Ms. Right to come knocking on your door. You're going to have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

In the mean time, women like to "test" men. Some people like to call it mind games, but I like "test." What you do during a test makes or breaks what happens and it only leads to more tests. Why is this? Because your chosen female is feeling you out, seeing what your limits are.

Case in point, a few months ago. Me and this girl wanted to see "Wedding Crashers" we talked about it, planned it out. An hour before the movie she does the most irrational thing ever. She says "I don't want to see Wedding Crashers anymore, I want to see "(Insert that crappy John Cusack movie)." At first I'm like, WTF? Then I'm like WTF! Then I thought...oh, test.

Here's where being yourself (or more importantly being true to yourself) is important. If I was too nice, I would've said "Ok." and we would've gone to see that crappy movie. Another test would've followed, where she would've said or done something even MORE questionable and irrational.

Here's where it got dicey. I sat down right in front of her and said. "We talked about this. You wanted to see this movie as bad as I did and at the last minute...you want to see...something else?" *Imagine some Samuel L Jackson like faces while I'm saying this* I laughed. "Ok. I'm going to see Wedding Crashers. You...I'm taking home before I miss the movie or you can stay here...your choice." *Another Samuel L Jackson face* "What's wrong with you?"

Inside I'm a nice guy, but this was an eighth over a pint for me. I even felt a little bad that I said THAT. She went to the movies, said very little going to the movies. During the movie she laughed a lot after the movie she was very happy, like the events before the movie hadn't transpired. I nodded to myself, test.

When you start to feel something ain't right...it's a test. Don't go for those. Anytime you feel like SUCKER is being painted on your forehead stick to your guns.

Another thing. You might be falling in love too easily. I don't really want to get into that one, but see Romeo and Rosaline. Those aren't good either.

lilyflower

10-06-2005, 11:04 PM

I don't know, I think this is a question you should never ask. It's one of life's ultimate loaded questions. Like Chris Rock said: What do women want?!? EVERY-THANG!!!!

"Be yourself" or "Be a bad, bad boy" are too afterschool special or too crappy 80's movie.

Here's what you do. You can be yourself, that's good especially in philosophy. You can find someone being yourself, that's a given, as long as you're putting yourself out there. Just don't hope for Ms. Right to come knocking on your door. You're going to have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

In the mean time, women like to "test" men. Some people like to call it mind games, but I like "test." What you do during a test makes or breaks what happens and it only leads to more tests. Why is this? Because your chosen female is feeling you out, seeing what your limits are.

Case in point, a few months ago. Me and this girl wanted to see "Wedding Crashers" we talked about it, planned it out. An hour before the movie she does the most irrational thing ever. She says "I don't want to see Wedding Crashers anymore, I want to see "(Insert that crappy John Cusack movie)." At first I'm like, WTF? Then I'm like WTF! Then I thought...oh, test.

Here's where being yourself (or more importantly being true to yourself) is important. If I was too nice, I would've said "Ok." and we would've gone to see that crappy movie. Another test would've followed, where she would've said or done something even MORE questionable and irrational.

Here's where it got dicey. I sat down right in front of her and said. "We talked about this. You wanted to see this movie as bad as I did and at the last minute...you want to see...something else?" *Imagine some Samuel L Jackson like faces while I'm saying this* I laughed. "Ok. I'm going to see Wedding Crashers. You...I'm taking home before I miss the movie or you can stay here...your choice." *Another Samuel L Jackson face* "What's wrong with you?"

Inside I'm a nice guy, but this was an eighth over a pint for me. I even felt a little bad that I said THAT. She went to the movies, said very little going to the movies. During the movie she laughed a lot after the movie she was very happy, like the events before the movie hadn't transpired. I nodded to myself, test.

When you start to feel something ain't right...it's a test. Don't go for those. Anytime you feel like SUCKER is being painted on your forehead stick to your guns.

Another thing. You might be falling in love to easily. I don't really want to get into that one, but see Romeo and Rosaline. Those aren't good either.

Not all girls play mind games. Trust me, some of us hate games as much as you guys do. I really hate how there must be a handful of crazy bitches that have like scarred all the nice guys out there.

dengeist

10-06-2005, 11:19 PM

Not all girls play mind games. Trust me, some of us hate games as much as you guys do. I really hate how there must be a handful of crazy bitches that have like scarred all the nice guys out there.

I'm not saying all girls play mind games. Most girls do in some way or another (I smell flames!!) test guys out. I was just pointing out what type of games some girls like to play. I have other stories....that one was a tame one. I'm sticking to my "most "good" girls are taken" theory though, which leaves me with more chaff to sift through. I still open doors and stuff, I just don't take crap either.

ScottyTheBody

10-06-2005, 11:21 PM

Scotty my sis is taking Bachelor of Med sciences at UWO and she is 19 :p

Damn- me and shim are pimping our sisters :D

:eek: She looking to be a doctor? Now that is cool. :cool:

I guess technically right now I'm living in Waterloo (at University of Waterloo), even though all my stuff and my home is in London. I'm in coop so I'll be back home in London at the Christmas holidays.

I was talkin to old Billy today at the University and I might be workin down in Microsoft (Seattle) for the 4 months afterwards. (Oh uh if you run into Bill Gates please Don't tell him I call him old Billy) ;)

jcm12

10-06-2005, 11:28 PM

I agree with what you said about MANY men. Now I for one don't care if someone wears their pajamas around. What attracts me to women is intelligence (I'm kinda weird) :p .

tell me about it, my friend's older sister used to give me rides home in high school, and I had the biggest crush on her. She was class president, super intelligent, and had a very nice body.

One time she was frustrated with guys and out of nowhere she said, "James if you want a girl, all you gotta do is respect her, i'm sick of these losers coming on to me" and I always remembered it since then :)

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 12:14 AM

The last thing I'm going to say on this topic (and it's so obvious, I almost feel stupid saying it) is that a lot of girls have just as much trouble in the dating world as men do. I was one of them for a long time, and I'm reasonably cute, easy to get along with, smart, blah blah blah. And I toss in $$$ for the tab more often than not.

But I guess I can't speak for all women.

By all means, speak for me, Allison, because in the above paragraph, you are absolutely speaking the truth. Every single complaint that and1, WB, and other very nice, very cool guys on here bring up whenever this whole "what women want" topic arises, I have ABSOLUTELY been on the receiving end of as a woman as well, in terms of what men are looking for.

Think about it...what's so different? People you're interested in saying, vowing, claiming they're looking for certain magical attributes, certain criteria (and of course, every guy in the world contradicts one another on what's desirable, what's attractive, what's a turnoff, JUST like women do), and when you possess those attributes or criteria, guess what, there's always conveniently some other reason that pops up to explain why you're not quite what they're looking for, not enough, not quite right, whatever. I don't know why the mythology is that guys shoulder that burden alone, that it's just guys who can't seem to win. There is no playbook, there's no magic formula for what works to snag an SO, everybody's different. And, everybody manipulates everybody and changes the rules on one another all the time, too, and neither gender is exempt...guys aren't any more or less the martyrs in this equation than the tons of women like me, Susan, Allison, and others, who have been on just as much the receiving end as you guys.

The guys always get to be very "gloves off" when this topic arises, I'm gonna be gloves off, too. So, to paraphrase another moderator...I've also been around long enough that anybody who wants to dismiss me as bitter can bite me. It's not that I'M cynical...it's just that I'M paying attention, too. So, yeah, gloves off, here, courtesy of the cowardly journalist...

Susan wrote this, earlier:

Also, I hate to say this, but let's go there - a lot of guys have a lot of really fucking unrealistic expectations for looks. If a girl isn't a size 2, model clone, some guys will not even LOOK at her. As one of the "non-traditional beauties" out there, I can tell you that I SELDOM get approached. And I'm a pretty awesome person and damn smart to boot. Forgive me here, it's been a long day so I'm going to make the rest of my point by a lyric from Avenue Q

I'm kinda pretty
And pretty damn smart
I like romantic things like music and art
And as you know I have a gigantic heart
So why don't I have a boyfriend?
Fuck, it sucks to be me

I think that sums most of single girls up on QLC pretty well.

Yup, indeed let's go there...the mythology as some of you guys seem to perpetuate it is, "Women don't have to do anything. Women just have to breathe and men will flock to them...because they're women." Um, not hardly. If so, my goddamned flock is pretty well-camouflaged.

Susan is 100% right...you have to be a BEAUTIFUL woman (and, as Kelly pointed out, even then, you can get screwed, because you're THEN seen as an intimidating bitch). This image that keeps getting painted of the woman who can just snap her fingers and have a boyfriend at her whim, without batting an eye? She doesn't exist, by and large. And in the rare instances that she does, it's because she's gorgeous and a size 2.

Let a woman be average-looking, unconventionally attractive (maybe you call it "ugly." :rolleyes: )...or, GOD FORBID, kiss of death, let her be overweight. Still think your blanket statements about how "easy" women have it apply? Not a snowball's chance in hell. And we know this...We know it comes down to nothing but perfect looks in the end...even on this thread, we've got a guy who acknowledges that he knows how "weird" it is to actually be attracted to a woman's intelligence!

No, WE don't get approached, WE can't just snap our fingers and have a guy right there, WE sit and try to salvage OUR pride and prevent OURselves from feeling like shit and wondering what's wrong with US, and why the people we're interested in can't see the good in us JUST LIKE YOU NICE GUYS WHO FEEL PICKED OVER BY WOMEN AND UNAPPRECIATED AND NOT GIVEN A CHANCE DO. It's not ANY different.

The truth is, when you nice guys talk about these intimidating, cruel, heartless women who refuse to be won over and won't give you the time of day, you're really talking about a very specific type of woman...and it's not REALLY that nice, reasonably attractive, smart, clever, fun woman you know who could stand to lose 30 lbs, now, is it? Of course it's not, because that's not the woman you're attracted to. That's the woman who sure is a "great friend."

To quote WB, call me bitter if you will, but "how are WE expected to feel about that?"

shimmer728

10-07-2005, 12:25 AM

Hell, I AM a size 2 and have still experienced plenty of rejection in my day! :cool: Being thin is not going to guarantee that you'll be able to snap your fingers and snag any guy you want. Like Jess said, it depends on so many different things.

J-girl--Yeah, I pimp my sis unabashedly. And Scotty, she's in pharmacy school and a total chemistry geek. But she's also in Pittsburgh, PA, so J-girl's sis is closer. ;)

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 12:30 AM

Being thin is not going to guarantee that you'll be able to snap your fingers and snag any guy you want.

True, true, shim, point taken...even if you fit the mold in one way...people will always find some other reason to make you feel like you're just not quite up to snuff. Sigh.

ScottyTheBody

10-07-2005, 12:48 AM

I agree with you words, I bet it is very difficult for women too, to determine who is nice and who is not. I just hated the fact that I had to play the jerk card to get any dates.

For the record I do not care about appearance. I have the key to get over this problem too. ;)

Two years ago I decided to do a selfless act to raise money for Alzheimers (not sure if it is spelled right), my grandfather was suffering from it and it broke my heart. Anyways for this act I blind folded myself for 2 whole months (I took it off when I went to the washroom and bed) and continued with my life and school as usual (thankfully my little sister helped me a lot). When the months were up I was so glad to have my eye sight back and something surprising happened. I didn't notice appearance anymore. The awkward feeling of being close to someone sexy in appearance had faded.

By the way I still get attracted to women but I no longer see them as objects. Its the intelligent women that get me excited :twisted: . I have a real hard time finding them. Most girls around here play the ditzy role and man that just makes me wanna vomit. I want to look upon my girlfriend as my equal not someone that I don't respect.

Ah man I'm ranting again sorry.

cheshrcarol

10-07-2005, 01:26 AM

Girls simply do not know what they want.
They say they want a nice guy, but like you said... you acted nice in H.S. and got no girl. Yet they keep saying they want a nice guy.
Yet they also say they want an aggressive, tough guy.
Then they also want us to give them some room and say on things.

Simply put, girls are very demanding... which is no problem. The problem is girls just expect all these perfect qualities and don't do nothing of their own to deserve it. They want the man to pay for their meals, and take them home, and be there for them constantly. All girls need to do is act and look pretty. They do not want any responsibilities of their own. Heck, some of them want the man to do the cooking, and cleaning now - EVERYTHING.I just want to say I find this entire post offensive. I know exactly what I want, I can pay for my own meals (even the expensive ones), and I happen to LIKE responsibilities. So please kill the condescending attitude.

I love nice guys, but you know what? I think I have yet to meet one. I've dated a couple who seemed to be your typical "nice guys", but one cheated on me with one of my friends. And the other, after we had "the talk" led me on and then suddenly stopped talking to me and when I finally got a hold of him told me "things just didn't feel right".

Like dengeist, I'm starting to think all the people worthwhile dating are taken. Either that or I'm just not worth dating.

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 01:33 AM

I'm starting to think all the people worthwhile dating are taken. Either that or I'm just not worth dating.

Carol, you know that's not true, though, right? *hugs*

Although I will very much attest to the fact that it's super disheartening to, when you've finally come across one of the "nice" ones, to learn firsthand that the "nice" ones are just as capable of hurtful b.s. like that as the ones who don't bother to bill themselves as nice.

cheshrcarol

10-07-2005, 01:42 AM

Carol, you know that's not true, though, right? *hugs*Aww, thanks :). It just one of those things I don't like to think about because it makes me upset, but I've realized that EVERY guy I've ever been involved with has treated me like utter crap. And that's the few that I can count that I HAVE been involved with, which isn't exactly a signifigant number. Most of the time guys just aren't interested.

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 01:46 AM

By and large...EVEN THE NICE GUYS treat me like crap. And, yeah...most times guys just aren't interested here, too.

pisces2473

10-07-2005, 01:48 AM

and1grad

10-07-2005, 07:24 AM

I'm not saying all girls play mind games. Most girls do in some way or another (I smell flames!!) test guys out. I was just pointing out what type of games some girls like to play. I have other stories....that one was a tame one. I'm sticking to my "most "good" girls are taken" theory though, which leaves me with more chaff to sift through. I still open doors and stuff, I just don't take crap either.
ALL girls DO play mind games. Men do too. People really need to get over their "i dont play games" stuff. Its ALL a game and of course you play it. You HAVE to play it...or be single your entire life.

The reason why you hear men going on & on about the MAJORITY (sorry but its not a "handful") of women being a certain way is b/c for the most part you dont know what you want or you just plain lie about it. At least MOST men are upfront enough to at least say what they want in terms of looks. Most women cant even bring themselves to do THAT. "Oh looks dont matter to me." If that isnt the purest form of bullshit ever.

Also, the reason why noone gives much credence to the sitting and waiting for a date side of the equation is b/c its ridiculously easier than the other side. The actual seeking of the date. Its not even comparable. You wonder whats wrong if someone doesnt come ask you out? Try having someone reject you to your face regularly and then tell me which stings more. This argument is ridiculous.

stonemonkey

10-07-2005, 08:14 AM

But for a guy, introverted is perceived as confidence problems, which are decidedly unsexy. You're supposed to be all brave and manly, and "quiet" "introverted" and "hard to get to know" don't fit into that picture. A guy who is quieter, some women wonder if he'd stick up for you when you needed it.

Yep, that's pretty much how I am naturally. The problem that guys like us have, is that we have this mentality that to be the 'alpha-male' basically means being an a-hole. There's a medum between spineless pussy and cocky, arrogant bastard that you're supposed to achieve.

It's become a cliche now, the way girls fall for the 'bad boy' who treats them like shit, and then the girl asks herself why she always falls for the bad ones. My theory is that the same qualities that these girls find attractive are inextricably linked to the assholic nature of the dude.

Whether that's accurate or not, I don't know, but that's the perception that alot of guys have. Now put yourself in the guy's shoes: He's being himself, he's being nice, he's got all the values and manners his parents taught him, and he's not getting anywhere. Then he sees some other dude being a complete dick, yet he has all the qualities of an 'alpha-male', and he DOES seem to have luck with girls. If you were in this position, wouldn't your natural conclusion be that you've got to act like more of an asshole to get the girl? I think this is the confusion that's being described in the OP, and I can definitely relate to it.

ebruening

10-07-2005, 08:25 AM

Hell, I AM a size 2 and have still experienced plenty of rejection in my day! :cool: Being thin is not going to guarantee that you'll be able to snap your fingers and snag any guy you want. Like Jess said, it depends on so many different things.

I'll put myself in that category, too. That's what I look like - thin and blonde. However, I'm not a HOT thin and blonde. Just putting that out there, so that I don't get accused of passing myself off as such. I'm not hot, and I know it. Quite frankly, I've stopped thinking, "I date the wrong men," or "All the nice ones are taken." I've been rejected lots of times. I have played mind games in the past - something I'm not proud of. I have also sat at home and thought, "why doesn't anybody like me?" I'm likeable to a degree. The reason why I don't have dates is because I don't put myself out there enough. At this point, work, coupled with the lack of disposable income, is why I don't go out. That's not a truism for ALL women who feel that they can't get dates, but for me, that is a big part of why I'm dateless.

dengeist

10-07-2005, 08:43 AM

ALL girls DO play mind games. Men do too. People really need to get over their "i dont play games" stuff. Its ALL a game and of course you play it. You HAVE to play it...or be single your entire life.

The reason why you hear men going on & on about the MAJORITY (sorry but its not a "handful") of women being a certain way is b/c for the most part you dont know what you want or you just plain lie about it. At least MOST men are upfront enough to at least say what they want in terms of looks. Most women cant even bring themselves to do THAT. "Oh looks dont matter to me." If that isnt the purest form of bullshit ever.

Also, the reason why noone gives much credence to the sitting and waiting for a date side of the equation is b/c its ridiculously easier than the other side. The actual seeking of the date. Its not even comparable. You wonder whats wrong if someone doesnt come ask you out? Try having someone reject you to your face regularly and then tell me which stings more. This argument is ridiculous.

Yep, you're right! They just aren't the same type of games or at the same level of maliciousness. Everybody tests boundries, that includes men in some shape or form. We've been doing it since childhood, I'm a teacher, I should know. Interestingly enough, I have been able to see the games much more clearly since I've been teaching, because they change very little.

I think what the ladies who are saying "I don't play games." are saying is they don't play those malicious "What will he do if.....I do something crazy!" games.

You're right, I pulled a punch. There I go being a nice guy again.

Winter Storm

10-07-2005, 10:03 AM

Anyways my question to you is what do women want? Do women even know what they want? Time and time again I keep hearing that they want the nice guy but my personal experience would suggest otherwise

Here's my theory on what I call the 'nice guy syndrome'. Most guys that fall into this category do so because they are so caught up in being nice, that they forget to be interesting. Now I'm not saying that these guys don't have interesting traits, but in my experience I've found that they fail to show me this side of them.

I was having this discussion with a guy friend of mine not too long ago. See there were 3 'nice guys' I'd gone out with this year that after 2-3 dates, I realized there was zero interest on my part. The problem with each of these guys is if I had to describe them in one word, the first one that comes to mind is nice. There was nothing else about them that drew me to them. Compare them to the guys I was swooning over and I'd describe them as fun, charming, easy to talk to, hilarious, sexy or crazy. These guys were also nice but they had so many other redeeming qualities that the word nice isnt the first thing that comes to mind. Basically, I just found being around them more engaging.

Perhaps if I'd have spent more time with these guys I could have found some more to their personality, but honestly I don't want to have to bring that out of them or try to get them to come out of their shell. I'm attracted to guys that let their true selves come shining through. Somebody that let's me know haning out with them will be a good time.

I mean there is so much more to wooing a girl than opening doors and being polite. While they are gentleman qualities, they aren't necessarily....interesting.

ScottyTheBody

10-07-2005, 10:07 AM

Also, the reason why noone gives much credence to the sitting and waiting for a date side of the equation is b/c its ridiculously easier than the other side. The actual seeking of the date. Its not even comparable. You wonder whats wrong if someone doesnt come ask you out? Try having someone reject you to your face regularly and then tell me which stings more. This argument is ridiculous.

This is quite true. Its hard asking women out. Just once I would like to be asked out.

From what has been posted it seems that women like confidence, yeah I think I had that :cool: . It just has been stomped on, crushed and pissed on by every woman that I ever dated or wanted to date :cry: . So every time it gets destroyed by a woman, it takes that much longer to rebuild it. While I'm rebuilding it, other women don't even care to give me a chance :( .

lilyflower

10-07-2005, 10:14 AM

ALL girls DO play mind games. Men do too. People really need to get over their "i dont play games" stuff. Its ALL a game and of course you play it. You HAVE to play it...or be single your entire life.

The reason why you hear men going on & on about the MAJORITY (sorry but its not a "handful") of women being a certain way is b/c for the most part you dont know what you want or you just plain lie about it. At least MOST men are upfront enough to at least say what they want in terms of looks. Most women cant even bring themselves to do THAT. "Oh looks dont matter to me." If that isnt the purest form of bullshit ever.

Also, the reason why noone gives much credence to the sitting and waiting for a date side of the equation is b/c its ridiculously easier than the other side. The actual seeking of the date. Its not even comparable. You wonder whats wrong if someone doesnt come ask you out? Try having someone reject you to your face regularly and then tell me which stings more. This argument is ridiculous.

Bullshit. A guy can be 30lbs overweight and still have a girlfriend/be dateable. A girl that's 30lbs overweight is stuck dealing with the cretins who think she might be an easy lay because she's desperate.

And for the love of god, if these girls keep rejecting you, maybe you're APPROACHING THE WRONG ONES? (and I don't mean just you, I mean all the guys on this thread in general.) Guess what? If you walk up the the prettiest girl in the room, chances are she's taken or not interested in being hit on. But I guarantee you there are 100 other nice perfectly acceptable girls in the room that seriously would love some nice guy to talk to.

Jess's post up thread is completely spot-on. The average girls are "friends" but then you wonder why the really pretty really hot girl always turns you down and thus all women are evil game-playing bitches? Also, (I think I speak for all of us women when I say this), we will start talking to you, but if we do and see that you're more interested in staring at the girl who just walked by, well forget it then.

J-girl

10-07-2005, 10:16 AM

:eek: She looking to be a doctor? Now that is cool. :cool:

I guess technically right now I'm living in Waterloo (at University of Waterloo), even though all my stuff and my home is in London. I'm in coop so I'll be back home in London at the Christmas holidays.

I was talkin to old Billy today at the University and I might be workin down in Microsoft (Seattle) for the 4 months afterwards. (Oh uh if you run into Bill Gates please Don't tell him I call him old Billy) ;)

You go to Waterloo?!? No wonder your dating life SUCKS! :D We have another waterloo warrior on QLC.

Anyways you guys are lucky to get the best internships.

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 10:21 AM

Bullshit. A guy can be 30lbs overweight and still have a girlfriend/be dateable. A girl that's 30lbs overweight is stuck dealing with the cretins who think she might be an easy lay because she's desperate.

And for the love of god, if these girls keep rejecting you, maybe you're APPROACHING THE WRONG ONES? (and I don't mean just you, I mean all the guys on this thread in general.) Guess what? If you walk up the the prettiest girl in the room, chances are she's taken or not interested in being hit on. But I guarantee you there are 100 other nice perfectly acceptable girls in the room that seriously would love some nice guy to talk to.

Jess's post up thread is completely spot-on. The average girls are "friends" but then you wonder why the really pretty really hot girl always turns you down and thus all women are evil game-playing bitches? Also, (I think I speak for all of us women when I say this), we will start talking to you, but if we do and see that you're more interested in staring at the girl who just walked by, well forget it then.

Exactly. Huge disconnect between the nice, willing, interested, perfectly acceptable girls right in front of you and the girls you REALLY see yourselves dating. HUGE.

meatwad

10-07-2005, 10:23 AM

I want a woman with a slow hand. I need a woman with an easy touch.

And Lord I love those ladies wearin', tight fittin jeans.

Sorry. Went a little Meatwad Twitty there.

lilyflower

10-07-2005, 10:32 AM

Exactly. Huge disconnect between the nice, willing, interested, perfectly acceptable girls right in front of you and the girls you REALLY see yourselves dating. HUGE.

Exactly! I mean, you take the prettiest hottest girl in the room, chances are she'll reject anyone who isn't the cutest hottest GUY in the room. So yeah, the really hot guys only go with the really hot girls that's fine. The problem and disconnect occurs when all guys (hot or not) think they should be with the really hot girl and because they can't get a date with her "Omg! All women are such bitches!".

Meanwhile, with girls, (except for maybe the really hot ones), they'll happily take the average guy if he's not a complete dick. The more average/unconventional she is in looks, the less she generally cares that the guy is the same. Problem is, all the guys are still chasing the really hot girl. Look at how it's portrayed in the media - you have shows like "King of Queens" where there's a dumpy guy and his really hot wife. Where's the show with the average/overweight girl and her hot husband? There ISN'T one because it doesn't happen. In the rare cases where the girl is not a supermodel, the guy is similarly inclined (think "Roseanne")

Men are seldom evaluated JUST on their looks, women often are. I could have the intelligence of a gnat but if I was hot, I'd be in a serious relationship right now and be offered dates all the time.

ScottyTheBody

10-07-2005, 10:35 AM

Bullshit. A guy can be 30lbs overweight and still have a girlfriend/be dateable. A girl that's 30lbs overweight is stuck dealing with the cretins who think she might be an easy lay because she's desperate.

And for the love of god, if these girls keep rejecting you, maybe you're APPROACHING THE WRONG ONES? (and I don't mean just you, I mean all the guys on this thread in general.) Guess what? If you walk up the the prettiest girl in the room, chances are she's taken or not interested in being hit on. But I guarantee you there are 100 other nice perfectly acceptable girls in the room that seriously would love some nice guy to talk to.

Jess's post up thread is completely spot-on. The average girls are "friends" but then you wonder why the really pretty really hot girl always turns you down and thus all women are evil game-playing bitches? Also, (I think I speak for all of us women when I say this), we will start talking to you, but if we do and see that you're more interested in staring at the girl who just walked by, well forget it then.

By the way I think I am the exception to the rule. :mad: I DO NOT approach the prettiest girl in the room because (1) They usually are ditzy or (2) they are arrogant and I can't stand that. I DO however approach the one that talks about time travel or physics or the one that blows my mind away. This kind of woman is EXTREMELY RARE. These women USUALLY have glasses and are actually quite nerdy. Am I approaching the wrong ones? Probably. But I am who I am and from my experience, the only way that they would even think about dating me is when I play the jerk card.

lilyflower

10-07-2005, 10:37 AM

By the way I think I am the exception to the rule. :mad: I DO NOT approach the prettiest girl in the room because (1) They usually are ditzy or (2) they are arrogant and I can't stand that. I DO however approach the one that talks about time travel or physics or the one that blows my mind away. This kind of woman is EXTREMELY RARE. These women USUALLY have glasses and are actually quite nerdy. Am I approaching the wrong ones? Probably. But I am who I am and from my experience, the only way that they would even think about dating me is when I play the jerk card.

I don't think we're that rare. (Or maybe we are, beats me)

However, Scotty, we've already established that you're the exception to the rule. I've had guys in college walk AWAY from me when they found out I was a biology major.

shimmer728

10-07-2005, 10:38 AM

These women USUALLY have glasses

Well, duh, because if you're wearing glasses, you MUST be smart. ;)

ScottyTheBody

10-07-2005, 10:39 AM

I don't think we're that rare. (Or maybe we are, beats me)

However, Scotty, we've already established that you're the exception to the rule. I've had guys in college walk AWAY from me when they found out I was a biology major.

:) Don't be ashamed of what interests you. If a girl told me that she was a biology major I would probably take one step closer. ;)

lilyflower

10-07-2005, 10:40 AM

Well, duh, because if you're wearing glasses, you MUST be smart. ;)

Right, it's only the dumb ones that wear contacts instead?

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 10:41 AM

Exactly! I mean, you take the prettiest hottest girl in the room, chances are she'll reject anyone who isn't the cutest hottest GUY in the room. So yeah, the really hot guys only go with the really hot girls that's fine. The problem and disconnect occurs when all guys (hot or not) think they should be with the really hot girl and because they can't get a date with her "Omg! All women are such bitches!".

Meanwhile, with girls, (except for maybe the really hot ones), they'll happily take the average guy if he's not a complete dick. The more average/unconventional she is in looks, the less she generally cares that the guy is the same. Problem is, all the guys are still chasing the really hot girl. Look at how it's portrayed in the media - you have shows like "King of Queens" where there's a dumpy guy and his really hot wife. Where's the show with the average/overweight girl and her hot husband? There ISN'T one because it doesn't happen. In the rare cases where the girl is not a supermodel, the guy is similarly inclined (think "Roseanne")

Men are seldom evaluated JUST on their looks, women often are. I could have the intelligence of a gnat but if I was hot, I'd be in a serious relationship right now and be offered dates all the time.

It's like Nick Hornby says in High Fidelity. You gotta punch your weight.

shimmer728

10-07-2005, 10:43 AM

Right, it's only the dumb ones that wear contacts instead?

Hey, I wear contacts! I must be a dumb blonde. :p

(I'm just joking around, Scotty, not picking on you.) :)

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 10:44 AM

I assure you that my wearing my glasses has much more to do with the fact that my contacts are rarely comfortable than it does with being smart. Although I am smart. :)

and1grad

10-07-2005, 10:44 AM

Bullshit. A guy can be 30lbs overweight and still have a girlfriend/be dateable. A girl that's 30lbs overweight is stuck dealing with the cretins who think she might be an easy lay because she's desperate.

And for the love of god, if these girls keep rejecting you, maybe you're APPROACHING THE WRONG ONES? (and I don't mean just you, I mean all the guys on this thread in general.) Guess what? If you walk up the the prettiest girl in the room, chances are she's taken or not interested in being hit on. But I guarantee you there are 100 other nice perfectly acceptable girls in the room that seriously would love some nice guy to talk to.

Jess's post up thread is completely spot-on. The average girls are "friends" but then you wonder why the really pretty really hot girl always turns you down and thus all women are evil game-playing bitches? Also, (I think I speak for all of us women when I say this), we will start talking to you, but if we do and see that you're more interested in staring at the girl who just walked by, well forget it then.
Rejection wouldnt sting if it came from someone you already thought you didnt have a shot with. Its with the ones who arent the hottest but act like they are. Thats when you find someone being called a bitch. There's just as many fat women with men as there are fat men with women so I really dont see the point of all that size talk. Its NOT rare to not approach the hottest person, its actually more common than not.

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 10:45 AM

Maybe for men. Most women don't bother to approach guys they can already tell are going to conisider themselves "out of YOUR league."

ScottyTheBody

10-07-2005, 11:03 AM

Maybe for men. Most women don't bother to approach guys they can already tell are going to conisider themselves "out of YOUR league."

In my experience the opposite happens. The attractive male usually gets surrounded by women even though they are "out of his league" and the males that are out of the female's league don't approach them. I would be considered one of the most attractive males where I could approach any female I wanted by this logic because I rarely get approached by women.

Maybe its just the environment that I live in. See at Waterloo there is a large surplus of men and a drought of women.

temptation

10-07-2005, 11:09 AM

In my experience the opposite happens otherwise, I would be considered one of the most attractive males because I rarely get approached by women. Maybe its just the environment that I live in. See at Waterloo there is a large surplus of men and a drought of women.

I heard waterloo is the dregs. Which means that I will never even consider stepping foot on that campus.

J-girl

10-07-2005, 11:12 AM

Maybe its just the environment that I live in. See at Waterloo there is a large surplus of men and a drought of women.

NOOOOOOOOO. You think??!?!?!?! :D :p

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 11:18 AM

You, know, I should probably note that I'm speaking for MYSELF. I suppose there are women who are of a temperament where they'll approach any man, regardless of whether he seems "within their reach" or not.

I just personally don't. If I get any vibe at all from a guy that he might look down his nose or consider himself too good for me to even bother talking to, I won't bother to give him the time of day. You get a pretty good sense of who's likely to think you're not good enough for them after a while.

temptation

10-07-2005, 11:27 AM

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 11:42 AM

Same neighborhood, you ask? I think they're roommates. Anybody who's giving off an "I'm better than you, so don't even think you're gonna talk to me" vibe is NOT somebody worth my time.

I just don't feel any need whatsoever to open myself up to guys giving me the once over and going..."Hmmm...she really thinks I'd go for her?" So I tend to go for guys where the footing seems equal and the attitudes seem comparable.

red

10-07-2005, 12:40 PM

Its hard asking women out. Just once I would like to be asked out.

From what has been posted it seems that women like confidence, yeah I think I had that :cool: . It just has been stomped on, crushed and pissed on by every woman that I ever dated or wanted to date :cry: . So every time it gets destroyed by a woman, it takes that much longer to rebuild it. While I'm rebuilding it, other women don't even care to give me a chance :( .

You don't think that women feel that way too?

I always took chances and asked guys out, but after a while, it was hard to keep at it. The white elephant is that a lot of guys are only after sex, pretend to be nice, and lie through their teeth. It is hard to tell when guys are being genuine, and for me it became hard to trust men, even if they seemed nice.

Some of the stuff in this thread is total sexist BS. women just clap their hands and men do whatever they want? in what universe does that happen?

I have always paid my way, I work FT, manage our finances, cook dinner every night, pack lunches, run 35 miles a week, help out with my nephews, do the shopping, help my parents with their business, etc. my husband has his own crap he does, but our union is a partnership and i pull my own weight.

As for women not knowing what they want, i think that is true of some women, but it is not at all a rule. in my experience, a lot of times i would tell men what i wanted, but they didn't believe me. they thought they knew better what i wanted! funny that i see the same thing happening in this thread.

I am very smart and confident and I go after what I want. I don't play games or put up with BS. This limited my dating prospects considerably. Of course there are exceptions, but many guys don't like a strong woman. The guys who were attracted to me were generally the needy type- which I don't dig at all. I need my space and I don't want to be anyone's mommy until i have a child.

Luckily my husband loves that I am strong and smart. I asked him out first. He is shy and thought i was out of his league. he is a computer geek and he wears glasses and he is hot.

J-girl

10-07-2005, 12:42 PM

Red- I am totally like you! Always busy with family, work, and *gasp* myself.

Does your hubbie have brothers like him? Single preferably. J/k!

red

10-07-2005, 12:46 PM

haha. i wish. he has three sisters. probably explains a lot!

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 12:47 PM

I think this is interesting...the last time I liked a guy because of WHO HE WAS (a guy who, is it were, happened to not be Calvin Klein underwear-model attractive), I got accused, by another guy, no less, of going after him out of pity him and making him my "pet project." "Oh, you think you can save him, is that it?"

WTF? If you aren't interested in a guy who's less than physicaly perfect, you're a stuck up shallow bitch. If you ARE interested in the guy, you're doing it out of pity? Jesus H. Christ, is it so inconceivable that I liked the guy, flaws and all? Maybe guys just don't understand how you could possibly be interested in somebody who doesn't have the perfect look. Wouldn't surprise me.

J-girl

10-07-2005, 12:47 PM

haha. i wish. he has three sisters. probably explains a lot!
Yes it does!! Guys with sisters are sooo much nicer to deal with than guys without sisters in my experience lol! Both my exes had no sisters and I have no brothers.

But then you gotta deal with sister in laws :mad:

Deadend

10-07-2005, 12:50 PM

Too many times have I seen girls just sit back and relax, while the guy does everything.

Dudes got a point. Still... that's just as much the guy's fault. Be a pushover, get pushed.

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 12:52 PM

You know, every time I see it, it just blows me away with incredulity...

"I'm simply stating that generally, women only have to act and look pretty in a relationship."

How can anybody possibly give this assertion any credibility? Who are these women, and why are you dating them?

Deadend

10-07-2005, 12:54 PM

You know, every time I see it, it just blows me away with incredulity...

How can anybody possibly give this assertion any credibility? Who are these women, and why are you dating them?

I think that *CAN* be true... in people about ten years younger than you or me.... but other than that I changed my post to highlight specifically what I was looking at

shimmer728

10-07-2005, 12:55 PM

Shit, I WISH all I had to do with my time was sit there and look pretty. Seems like that would make things pretty damn easy!

J-girl

10-07-2005, 12:56 PM

Shit, I WISH all I had to do with my time was sit there and look pretty. Seems like that would make things pretty damn easy!
oh wait...... :twisted:

shimmer728

10-07-2005, 12:58 PM

oh wait...... :twisted:

Hey, what does that mean? :D

red

10-07-2005, 12:59 PM

I think that *CAN* be true... in people about ten years younger than you or me.... but other than that I changed my post to highlight specifically what I was looking at

right, but those aren't real relationships!

i have to echo Wordsmith. Who are these women and why are you dating them?

cheshrcarol

10-07-2005, 01:46 PM

You wonder whats wrong if someone doesnt come ask you out? Try having someone reject you to your face regularly and then tell me which stings more. This argument is ridiculous.Was this directed at me? Because you just might've succeeded in pissing me off after all. :neutral:

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 01:48 PM

No shit.

*(&*^&*%^&^

Deadend

10-07-2005, 01:50 PM

right, but those aren't real relationships!

Late teens? HA! They're as real as they feel when you're in them....

red

10-07-2005, 02:53 PM

right, but no one here is in their late teens anymore right? so those relationships should be irrelevant by now.

shimmer728

10-07-2005, 03:03 PM

I don't think teenage relationships count for shit once you're in your 20s.....but then again, I have had a relationship as a teenager.

ScottyTheBody

10-07-2005, 04:05 PM

You don't think that women feel that way too?

I always took chances and asked guys out, but after a while, it was hard to keep at it. The white elephant is that a lot of guys are only after sex, pretend to be nice, and lie through their teeth. It is hard to tell when guys are being genuine, and for me it became hard to trust men, even if they seemed nice.

Some of the stuff in this thread is total sexist BS. women just clap their hands and men do whatever they want? in what universe does that happen?

I have always paid my way, I work FT, manage our finances, cook dinner every night, pack lunches, run 35 miles a week, help out with my nephews, do the shopping, help my parents with their business, etc. my husband has his own crap he does, but our union is a partnership and i pull my own weight.

As for women not knowing what they want, i think that is true of some women, but it is not at all a rule. in my experience, a lot of times i would tell men what i wanted, but they didn't believe me. they thought they knew better what i wanted! funny that i see the same thing happening in this thread.

I am very smart and confident and I go after what I want. I don't play games or put up with BS. This limited my dating prospects considerably. Of course there are exceptions, but many guys don't like a strong woman. The guys who were attracted to me were generally the needy type- which I don't dig at all. I need my space and I don't want to be anyone's mommy until i have a child.

Luckily my husband loves that I am strong and smart. I asked him out first. He is shy and thought i was out of his league. he is a computer geek and he wears glasses and he is hot.

Nowhere in any of my posts do I say women don't feel rejection too. I honestly believe that they do too. I am 100% genuinely nice and its unfortunate that many men who are jerks do ruin it for guys like me. Personally I'm not in a relationship for sex. In fact, around here, many of the girls that I dated just once wanted a FWB sort of thing which ended the relationship because that's just not who I am. Call me old fashioned but I believe in waiting til marriage. For me I think sex is really way more emotional than it is physical.

I do think it is great that you pull of your weight (or more) around the house, but your married. Also I don't doubt that many women pull their weight (or more) in a marriage but marriage is different than dating. When I talked about the tab problem (which I don't mind covering because yet again money comes and goes :p ) I was referring to the dating world. In fact, I have seen women and women even on this board date someone and I quote "...for a free meal" even though they know will not go anywhere. Never have I seen a man do this.

I'm sorry if it seemed like an attack on all women because it is not and I do believe that not all women are like this.

I'm just saying it would be nice to get asked out just once.

girlinterrupted

10-07-2005, 04:31 PM

When I talked about the tab problem (which I don't mind covering because yet again money comes and goes :p ) I was referring to the dating world. In fact, I have seen women and women even on this board date someone and I quote "...for a free meal" even though they know will not go anywhere. Never have I seen a man do this.

I'm sorry if it seemed like an attack on all women because it is not and I do believe that not all women are like this.

I'm just saying it would be nice to get asked out just once.

The whole tab issue can basically be solved like this: whoever does the asking pays. And yes guys generally do the asking first, so it only makes sense that they would pay the tab then. After that first date, I have no problem with asking the guy out to do something and paying for it. It should be a reciprocal thing, if you're both into each other. But the truth is there are a lot of first and only dates, so that's where most men in general probably feel slighted on this issue.

So if you don't want to pay, wait to be asked out, but you'll be waiting a while. That's just the way it is, and it's no one's fault. Blame our evolution - men are hunters, period. That's why men generally do the approaching. Guys always say "yeah, I wish that women would approach me" but unless it's the woman of your dreams approaching you, it's a little awkward, isn't it? Welcome to the world of women.

wordsmith

10-07-2005, 04:57 PM

That's why men generally do the approaching. Guys always say "yeah, I wish that women would approach me" but unless it's the woman of your dreams approaching you, it's a little awkward, isn't it? Welcome to the world of women.

I think there's truth to this...who WOULDN'T want somebody mindnumbingly attractive approaching them, really? But I wonder how many guys are going to be satisfied or flattered if a nice, average girl approaches them, and how many are going to be looking over her shoulder and wondering why it's not the really hot girl across the room instead? I think it's misleading to say, "I just wish women would approach me." It's probably more accurate to say, "i just wish CERTAIN women would approach me."

shimmer728

10-07-2005, 05:05 PM

girlinterrupted

10-07-2005, 05:06 PM

I think there's truth to this...who WOULDN'T want somebody mindnumbingly attractive approaching them, really? But I wonder how many guys are going to be satisfied or flattered if a nice, average girl approaches them, and how many are going to be looking over her shoulder and wondering why it's not the really hot girl across the room instead? I think it's misleading to say, "I just wish women would approach me." It's probably more accurate to say, "i just wish CERTAIN women would approach me."

Yeah, that was part of my point, Words, sorry I didn't articulate it better! Another point I was trying to make - it just seems like a lot of men on this board are only seeing their issues with doing the approaching, when there's a whole host of issues that go with being approached. It's not a bed of roses, guys. Try turning down someone with enough force that they'll leave you alone for the night but nicely enough that you don't feel like the biggest bitch on earth. It's nearly impossible. I'm not saying that you should cry us a river or anything, but there are two sides to every issue, and there seems to be a lot of blanket remarks about women on this thread that are not true.

red

10-07-2005, 05:16 PM

also Scott, you are young. when i was 20 i thought i would never get married. i didn't want to settle down. i think as you get older you might find that people your age will be more serious about the future.

one thing that makes me a little worried is that people think marriage really changes a person. all of the things i do now, i did then. i mean, yeah, there are some things that are different, but if someone is a certain way when you are dating them, then chances are they will be that way when they're your SO.

lilyflower

10-07-2005, 05:19 PM

Rejection wouldnt sting if it came from someone you already thought you didnt have a shot with. Its with the ones who arent the hottest but act like they are. Thats when you find someone being called a bitch. There's just as many fat women with men as there are fat men with women so I really dont see the point of all that size talk. Its NOT rare to not approach the hottest person, its actually more common than not.

Um, because it's more socially unacceptable for girls to look like anything but a fucking supermodel? Because when it comes down to it, women are more valued highly for their looks then their brains, kindness, generiousity, etc. And as said above, it's easier for an overweight guy to find someone to be in a relationship with him than it is for a girl. (And don't TELL me that's not true)

I mean, hello, the guys on this thread talk about approaching women who treat them like shit. Well, why are you approaching these bitches in the first place? Could it possibly be because the very sight of said bitches is making you hard?

ScottyTheBody

10-08-2005, 12:06 AM

I think there's truth to this...who WOULDN'T want somebody mindnumbingly attractive approaching them, really? But I wonder how many guys are going to be satisfied or flattered if a nice, average girl approaches them, and how many are going to be looking over her shoulder and wondering why it's not the really hot girl across the room instead? I think it's misleading to say, "I just wish women would approach me." It's probably more accurate to say, "i just wish CERTAIN women would approach me."

I personally would be satisfied and flattered, actually I would be on the moon if a nice average girl approached me. I would be satisfied if ANY girl approached me. In fact I get approached so rarely that somedays I wonder if I'm even alive.

I truly pity men and alot of women too, that is only attracted to appearance because there is so much more to attraction. I mean honestly when we are all 80 or even 60 how important will your or your SO's appearance be then (if appearance is so important to you in attraction then unfortunately you will never have a lasting relationship). Appearance is just so temporary.

lilyflower

10-08-2005, 12:09 AM

I truly pity men and alot of women too, that is only attracted to appearance because there is so much more to attraction. I mean honestly when we are all 80 or even 60 how important will your or your SO's appearance be then (if appearance is so important to you in attraction then unfortunately you will never have a lasting relationship). Appearance is just so temporary.

"Beauty fades, dumb is forever" - Judge Judy.

ScottyTheBody

10-08-2005, 12:38 AM

Blame our evolution - men are hunters, period. That's why men generally do the approaching.

I would watch what you say about evolution. Using this logic it would imply that women should not go out in the workplace but should stay home and take care of the children. Blame our evolution you say.

I believe we are evolving past that stage

I believe men and women are equal. I women can/should do the same jobs as men and I also believe that men can/should do the same jobs as women. As such I believe women should approach more. In fact I am the only one in my apartment that does the so called "women's work". I clean the place weekly, do laundry (in fact right now I'm doing it) and cook dinner for my female roomates very frequently.

stonemonkey

10-08-2005, 12:46 AM

I believe men and women are equal. I women can/should do the same jobs as men and I also believe that men can/should do the same jobs as women. As such I believe women should approach more. In fact I am the only one in my apartment that does the so called "women's work". I clean the place weekly, do laundry (in fact right now I'm doing it) and cook dinner for my roomates very frequently.

I would watch what you say about equality. Of course I don't mean that one gender is greater or lesser than the other, I'm just saying that ultimately, we aren't 'equivalent', we're different. I'm not referring to the right to vote or equal pay or anything, I'm referring to the way our brains are hardwired. I think alot of our behaviour can be explained by neurology and endocrinology (is that the right word?). In most cultures around the world, males have generally been the 'pursuers' for thousands of years, and that still seems to be the general trend. I think that's even true in the animal world. (Of course the female praying mantis bites the head off the male during mating, but I'm not gonna go there...)

I'm all in favour of women doing the approaching (believe me) but I'm not going to hold my breath. If you want her, you're going to have to work to get her.

Tiean

10-08-2005, 03:46 AM

I have met you, Carol, and I've talked with you, Jess, enough to get to really know you. Let me tell you, you are the most awesome girls that I know. I wish I had mens to hook you up with, you both deserve it.

I've heard this one a million times and I really appreciate the sympathy, but it's just not getting me anyone... so I do NOT like people telling: you really deserve a gf... (but I still appreciate the sympathy :) )

pisces2473

10-08-2005, 11:10 AM

I've heard this one a million times and I really appreciate the sympathy, but it's just not getting me anyone... so I do NOT like people telling: you really deserve a gf... (but I still appreciate the sympathy :) )
Um, I wasn't talking to you...I was talking to Jess and Carol.

ScottyTheBody

10-08-2005, 11:43 AM

I'm not referring to the right to vote or equal pay or anything, I'm referring to the way our brains are hardwired. I think alot of our behaviour can be explained by neurology and endocrinology (is that the right word?). In most cultures around the world, males have generally been the 'pursuers' for thousands of years, and that still seems to be the general trend. I think that's even true in the animal world. (Of course the female praying mantis bites the head off the male during mating, but I'm not gonna go there...)

I'm all in favour of women doing the approaching (believe me) but I'm not going to hold my breath. If you want her, you're going to have to work to get her.

I understand what you are saying here about women and men being different, but equal. I also do know, that if I want her I do have to work to get her because that is the way our society is right now.

Now just because people or the animal kingdom have been doing something a certain way for thousands of years does not mean it is right. It may be in our very nature and thoughts but that still does not always make it right. Human nature tells us to always look out for number one, even though when we work and share together we accompolish so much more as a society. Consider also this; many years ago, it was considered socially acceptable and required to sacrifice a human life frequently to the gods. Racism was also considered to be "biological". Not too long ago, it was thought that black or any race but white could not be a doctor or a lawyer or any position with prestige. This is of course false, I believe that all races are equal but don't always recieve equal opportunity (Another debate for another time). Racism was, and in some places still is, culturally accepted. Consider also slavery. It was considered necessary for society, if you were born a slave then you are destined to be a slave til you die. The list goes on and on. These problems were rooted in our nature and I believe we are slowly overcoming them.

I don't know if you know this but, when settlers came from Europe to America, it was noticed that some native cultures had many women doing "men's jobs" (hunting) and many men doing "women's jobs" (gathering). These native american cultures did not examine the difference between the two genders (in fact some considered there to be 4 genders). If a female was a better hunter than the male, then she went hunting and he went gathering and vica versa. This was considered to be a sin by the European travellers and as a result these cultures either changed to the two different genders, two different jobs, or were killed. Also, consider Amazon women, they always chose the man to mate with, and that's just the way it was.

Also, neurology can only look a piece of a seemingly infinite size puzzle at one time. As of yet, we barely understand even a piece (if that) of the human brain and are actually only guessing based on what we observe. Our behaviour is linked to our brain, but I believe we can change it just like we are slowly changing what is said above (racism, slavery, etc).

It is even rooted in religion to defy our some of our nature. In christianity, we are told to "love thy neighbour as you would thyself" and "love thine enemies" (Sorry if your not religious. In fact I'm not a bible thumper but these two quotes I always believed were the most significant and neglected in christianity) . Our nature is to hate our enemies not love them. Also examine the seven deadly sins (don't worry I won't list them) these have a direct correlation to our brains. I believe these can be overcome by defying what some of our brains tell us.

NOTE: When I say defy our very nature, what I mean is don't defy everything that human nature tells you (like feelings of love, pain, etc) but some things should be challenged and changed.

What I am trying to say is this.

Women don't be afraid to approach men. It is just as hard for men as it is for women to approach someone they don't know. Defy your very nature, and don't be afraid to ask a man out or even if he is just alone, go down and talk to him for a while. I'm betting he would really appreciate the company. :)

Society is what we make of it and if you want society to change than you must change first.

By the way sorry if my grammer or English is bad. This is probably the last thing I'm going to say on this thread. Thanks all for debating and replying to this topic.