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jku
05-21-2003, 10:07 PM
----I think what I disagree with most about the speech is when he bashed Sharon (Israel's Prime Minister) and talked about the "oppresssion of the Palestinians." He made it sound like Sharon was the cruel one, and the Palestinian suicide bombings were almost natural reactions to their unjust treatment. Never mind the fact that the Palestinians blow up innocent people and that Sharon has little choice but to respond to such actions with force. And also, no mention of the fact that Palestinian extremist groups such as Hamas are guided by a philosophy that is violently anti-Semitic at its core. They won't be happy with the removal of certain Jewish "settlements" in Israel; what they really want is to drive all the Jews in Israel into the sea." ----- W-brake

Everything you said is true - but let's be clear here. The issue is a push. Both sides of this conflict have been persecuted and abused to such extremes. Like the old fable of the Hatfields and McCoys, there is a very vague notion of how this whole conflict began.

The Jews finally have a place to call home. The Palestinians are perceived by ARABS as "the scum" of the Arab world, and instead of some nations taking them in, they gleefully watch the Jews continually fall under seige. The issue in Israel also takes the heat off corrupt Mid-East leaders who don't want the focus on themselves.

The Israelis fight this war with modern weapons - I mean there is an obvious mismatch when one side has rocks and the other has TANKS. They push the Palestinians into tiny camps without roads, no economy, no jobs. Imagine young people like ourselves, interested in living life the best we can, bright and ambitious - left in squalor with no hope for a future! Imagine the frustration of someone pistol whipping your father as you watch helpless!?

This is a conflict that has no solution unless the Western world and Mid-East leaders can find one. What Bush is doing now is a payback to Blair for joining the war in Iraq. While a new Palestinian authority is the right step, there will be no peace in that region for a long time.

I wish our administration had a real interest in seeing something good happen there, but they don't. A facade of trying to reach for peace gets the Jewish vote which could tip New York to Bush in 2004 - the military industrial complex cites Israel as one of their biggest customers.

jku
05-22-2003, 08:17 AM
You're absolutely right, there is cheering going on in the Palestinian camps when a minor attack on the Israelis is successful - but how much have you heard about Israeli tanks mowing down settlements? They have a history of shooting at protesters (do you remember the girl from Olympia who was run over by a bulldozer a few months ago?) The violence committed by the conscripted Israeli army is horrendous. There is even a movement among Israeli veterans against their own army!
Also please remember that the Israeli consulate and PR machine is VERY powerful in US. This is not some anti-semetic conspiracy, its a fact. If you have a chance, look at the coverage of the conflict in that region in America vs. Europe. The media here, in the opinion of many analysts, is afraid to condemn the actions of the Israelis on any level because of the fear of being perceived as anti-semetic.
There is a much greater understanding GLOBALLY that this issue is VERY gray. Both sides are guilty of atrocities. I think peace won't happen in this generation - there is too much history.

"You can't believe everything you read/you get a parking violation and a maggot on your sleeve."

jku
05-22-2003, 03:03 PM
I remember that her name was Rachel - but I had to look up her last name - it was CORRIE. Is your point that because we forget, she may have died in vain? I work in the media, and am flooded by the images decided upon by people much more powerful than myself (namely MATT DRUDGE, who essentially runs the "news" in America).

I would tend to agree with the following editorial:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,961025,00.html

I like you W-brake. You've got spirit. :)

jku
05-23-2003, 11:39 AM
Hi WB - Do you know how nice it is to get my tension at work out by posting ANONYMOUSLY!!? Also to have intelligent civil debates with people who are coming from an educated, open minded background?

No one knows my ethnicity, name, how much money I make, what I look like - only the things going on in my mind are on display here. It's very liberating.

As a possible final point on this issue - let's be clear that one of the reasons Europe laughs at our President is that he tries to present COMPLICATED issues in black and white. The fact of the matter is, the issue between the Palestinians and Israelis is the story of two oppressed cultures left to battle it out for a tiny piece of land.
There are no good guys or bad guys on either side - both have body counts - everyone is a victim. It's an awful situation that will continue to fester unless America does something. Our policy there clearly favors one side and does not look at that situation objectively, which is what is needed.