my awesome life

[pistolwhip]

Well after 5 years of busting my ass to earn a bachelor's of computer science at a nationally accredited university with a B GPA, I find myself working in a call center for $9/hr since it is the only job I could find.

I have only 3 "friends" each of which I have not seen in over a month. Last night I was supposed to hang out with one of them, at the last minute he called me to say that he couldn't hang out because he had promised his girlfriend (whom he lives and works with) that he would see a movie with her.
He said we would hang after the movie but I didn't hear from him.

I've started drinking heavily to dull the boredom and forget the reality of the situation: that I am 26 and still live with my parents, I have no real friends, and I earn $9/hr working with highschool dropouts. I suppose I could pick myself up by the bootstraps, but ya know...I just don't have the motivation for some reason...wonder why that could be.

[J-girl]

I've started drinking heavily to dull the boredom and forget the reality of the situation: that I am 26 and still live with my parents, I have no real friends, and I earn $9/hr working with highschool dropouts

Instead of drinking- why dont you try actively researching the field or other careers? Getting drunk is only going to push you down further. I started off with minimum wage as well. Nothing in life is handed to you in a golden platter. Focus on getting a better job and getting out of your parent's job. If you are dedicated enough you WILL get what you want.

[WeirdBrake]

Nothing in life is handed to you in a golden platter.

But come on... no college graduate should be expected to start off at $9 an hour, and if anyone wants to attack me on that, I'm prepared to defend it.

[paiger81]

But come on... no college graduate should be expected to start off at $9 an hour, and if anyone wants to attack me on that, I'm prepared to defend it.


Depends on the area. I started at $8.75. I'm way above that now, but even my current salary is chump change to other's in my field.

[wordsmith]

Yup, depends on your field. My starting salary, when broken down, was around minimum wage.

[J-girl]

But come on... no college graduate should be expected to start off at $9 an hour, and if anyone wants to attack me on that, I'm prepared to defend it.
I agree it sucks espesially when your peers are making 30-40G to start off with. I started off with 6.85/hour (min wage) and after 4 months I got a semi decent paying job. So I do sympathise that its a crappy situation to be in but drinking is definately not the solution.

[bridgetjones]

Well I hear you on the motivation thing. I guess you are depressed about it. This job is temporary, pays the bills and gets you outta the house. Perhaps you can expand the sort of jobs you might accept. Yeah I feel like crap at times bc I live at home, am 26 years old and have had major upheavals in career such that I do not have momentum. I am changing prof now and it is hard to get a job. PM me if you like...

I have a degree from a top ranked bschool and it is not easy for me. It can get annoying when ppl tell me that with my degree it should be easy street. Um. It does come down to connections and luck at times. That and putting in the effort! Yeah I get lazy sometimes.

Oh yeah and do not let your a**hole pals get you down. Do not spend energy on them. I have since found new ppl to hang with and have fun. No close friends but at least ppl that do not seem to go out of their way to make me feel like shit. Read good books. Go to the gym and exercise. Take up a new hobby. F*ck them. If you must drink, do it with your new friends. Do not drink alone. Yeah I did drink more when I first lost my job. Ok I was having fun but I did drink too much at times. But never alone, that is dangerous!

[bridgetjones]

But come on... no college graduate should be expected to start off at $9 an hour, and if anyone wants to attack me on that, I'm prepared to defend it.

It is not fair but it can take a long time for some ppl to get a decent job or work up to a decent wage.

It took me 8 months last time to get it. I did not get EI. Long story... If I did not live with my folks, I would have been forced to take a crap job to pay bills.

[WeirdBrake]

Yup, depends on your field. My starting salary, when broken down, was around minimum wage.

Yeah, but I totally think print journalists should not need a bachelor's for the profession. Allison and I had a whole discussion about this. If you have excellent writing skills and people skills and can be a fine reporter, why should you be forced to accumulate the debt of a four-year degree while taking a bunch of gen-ed classes and mostly useless (Allison's word, not mine) theoretical journalism classes? Clearly, there are non college graduates with excellent writing and interpersonal skills, as well as college grads with neither. Yes, you might need internships and/or specific classes or experience to know how to do reporting. But is there really a need to require journalists to have a bachelor's?

[wordsmith]

Well, I won't argue with you there, since I didn't study journalism in college and manage to do fine. Hands-on experience is far more applicable than time in the classroom.

But, again, I wasn't forced to go to school to get the job...the job wasn't even in my head when I was in college. Actually, now that I think of it, one of the better staff writers I've worked with here doesn't have a college degree at all...just some community college coursework that's about two and a half decades old. A B.A. isn't required here if you have demonstrated ability.

[WeirdBrake]

A B.A. isn't required here if you have demonstrated ability.

I definitely think that should be the trend. Not just with journalism. With many other jobs as well.

[cheshrcarol]

Well, having a journalism degree myself, I think it is essential to anyone who wants to be any kind of journalist. Journalism school can't make you a good writer if you're not, it helps you take the skills you already have learn how to write leads, organize stories, and do 1000 other things that good writing skills are just the building blocks for.

[wordsmith]

Yeah, you'll really only find that at "starter" papers, though.

I think ability should be the prime consideration for most jobs, as well. But it's not. How many times have we seen people with limited ability coasting by in cake jobs others would kill to have and be better at? Ability takes second seat, IMO, to connections and other bullshit a really disproportionate amount of the time.

[wordsmith]

Well, having a journalism degree myself, I think it is essential to anyone who wants to be any kind of journalist.

I kind of take offense at that, carol. Particularly since I collected a state award on Friday, so I'll assume that I'm "some" kind of journalist. Huh.

[J-girl]

I think us people in our mid twenties got SCREWED with the whole tech boom. We started school when it was at its peak and by the time we graduated- it had gone bust!

[wordsmith]

This seems to be the case...not working at all in the technological sector, it doesn't really apply to me, but it definitely seems to be true of a lot of techies I've known over the years who are peers.

[WeirdBrake]

Well, having a journalism degree myself, I think it is essential to anyone who wants to be any kind of journalist. Journalism school can't make you a good writer if you're not, it helps you take the skills you already have learn how to write leads, organize stories, and do 1000 other things that good writing skills are just the building blocks for.

But just because you majored in it, and it helped you, doesn't mean that it's "essential." Essential means no one, as a rule, can get by without it. And apparently, many good journalists have.

Also, even if certain journalism classes taught you important stuff about the profession, does that mean ALL the classes you took in college were worthwhile? What I object to is when professions have a rule that says "OK, you MUST have a bachelor's degree, so you must take all these gen-ed core requirement classes outside your major and other filler in order to graduate, and accumulate all this debt, and oh, by the way, we'll pay you a salary that's ridiculous for someone with college debt, and going to college has little to do with whether you have the skill set for the job, but oh well, you better go anyway because those are the rules." That, to me, is wrong.

[cheshrcarol]

Sorry, Jess we crossed posts. What I meant by "any kind of journalist" was the type - print or broadcast. I think it's great that you are able to win awards for your skills without having been to college specifically for that. I think it's really impressive that you can do that without having had the specific classroom training. But I think you're more the exception than the rule.

I don't think most people off the street who qualify as good writers would necessarily make good reporters. IMO it takes years of experience and/or extensive training. In my program writing leads, editing, grammar, choosing headlines, journalist ethics, and understanding what was essential to the story was pounded into our heads for 4 years.

[wordsmith]

Okay...I couldn't figure out why you were being mean! :eek:

I think it's def. right that it takes either a great deal of training and/ or experience to be really good. Even learning hands-on takes a great deal of time, trial and error, and making mistakes. And it's also true that my degree focused on writing extensively, if not newspaper writing specifically...but I've always been able to pick things up by example very easily, so that's been a big help, providing you're looking at the right sorts of examples.

And, no, not everyone is good at reporting (even colllege-trained journalists). I think it's either a knack/level of comfortability you either have or you don't. I don't think I'm always that great at reporting. But strong writing and meticulous researching can make up for some degree of shortcomings in that area.

[cheshrcarol]

But just because you majored in it, and it helped you, doesn't mean that it's "essential." Essential means no one, as a rule, can get by without it. And apparently, many good journalists have.

Also, even if certain journalism classes taught you important stuff about the profession, does that mean ALL the classes you took in college were worthwhile? What I object to is when professions have a rule that says "OK, you MUST have a bachelor's degree, so you must take all these gen-ed core requirement classes outside your major and other filler in order to graduate, and accumulate all this debt, and oh, by the way, we'll pay you a salary that's ridiculous for someone with college debt, and going to college has little to do with whether you have the skill set for the job, but oh well, you better go anyway because those are the rules." That, to me, is wrong.Yes. I do think it's ESSENTIAL. Of course there are people like Jessie that don't have the specific degree (although she does have the college education) and there are people in the field who have years of experience as their education. But for the most part I think when you work in journalism ALL of your knowledge comes into play. Journalism/news covers every aspect of life and having those "gen-ed" classes in science or history or economics will probably be useful at some point.

And for how many other degrees obtained from liberal arts schools, can you say that? If you get a science, computer, business, or any other kind of degree from my university you still need to take the same gen ed requirements as everyone else. It's not really journalists so much that don't need them, but why does anyone if you're going to look at it that way?

BTW, I don't sit here and tell you what parts of your law and philosophy degrees are worthwhile or what you should need for YOUR profession, do I?

[wordsmith]

Being academically well-rounded IS VERY helpful to journalists, because you need to have the ability to become a mini-"expert" on whatever it is you're working on for the time being...it help immeasurably to have a very broad knowledge base to draw from so you don't have to pull everything out of your ass or cram research in all the time to know what you're talking about on disparate assignments.

[paiger81]

BTW, I don't sit here and tell you what parts of your law and philosophy degrees are worthwhile or what you should need for YOUR profession, do I?

LOL, that's probably cause WB would willingly list them for you :p

[WeirdBrake]

BTW, I don't sit here and tell you what parts of your law and philosophy degrees are worthwhile or what you should need for YOUR profession, do I?

LOL- And I'll be the first to critique the educational prerequisites for the legal profession! Let's start with philosophy. Now studying philosophy was valuable to me because it improved my overall writing and analytical skills, but I'd never say that majoring in philosophy is essential to law school. Law students come from a variety of majors-- everything from English Lit to comp. science. And there's really no evidence that having any specific undergrad degree gives you a leg up as a lawyer (the one exception might be science degrees for those who want to become patent attorneys).

As for the gen ed classes, I do think those were useless, and I'm not backing down from that. I had to take Finite Math in college, a bio class, an intro to psych course, two sociology courses, and two French courses. Have I ever needed to know about finite math or French or bio? No. And I learned more about human nature from the QLC board than I learned in my psych and sociology courses. :D I also don't think courses where you memorize a bunch of random information and then regurgitate it on tests have any educational value, and this unfortunately describes many standard college courses and electives.

As for law school, don't even get me started there. I totally think it's ridiculous that law school is a 3-year graduate program. It doesn't need to be. There is more useless filler in law school than you could possibly imagine.

[wordsmith]

Most, if not all, of my gen eds have had future use and applications, I've found. But we had some great options for gen eds, too.

If I want to look to worthless, worthless coursework, I need only look as far as education methods courses, i.e. most of the student teaching prep coursework.

[cheshrcarol]

WB, I think you missed my point. What I'm saying is I'm not going to argue with you about the details of law school or the law profession because I don't have any knowledge about it, just opinions - just like you have about journalism. And as Jess backed me up, general knowledge IS important in journalism.

[J-girl]

The IT boom isn't quite what was after the dot com bust, in addition to companies off shoring their labor. I haven't experiences any problems, and it's been 7 years since I graduated. I think I fairly immune to it though, being in DC.
Yeah you probably graduated in 1998/99. Even if the people of that graduating class did get laid off- due to experience and such they got hired back later on. But for us there were ZERO entry level jobs.

[WeirdBrake]

And as Jess backed me up, general knowledge IS important in journalism.

I agree. I'd also say the same is true for the legal field. But my point is that someone can have a high level of general knowledge that was developed outside of college classrooms.

[shimmer728]

I guess I missed much of this lively discussion, since I was busy writing and reporting today. :)

I have a journalism degree from a Big 10 university, and frankly, I am very, very cynical about my program and others like it. At least at OSU, the majority of J-school classes were theory-based. That's all well and good, but it's HANDS-ON EXPERIENCE that matters in this field, more than anything else. I can't stress this enough. I learned how to be a better writer and reporter by editing on the school newspaper and interning at several publications, not by sitting in class.

As for gen ed. classes......well, I can't say I learned too much, but I didn't put in a whole lot of effort, either. I admit that.

I can honestly say I have learned more in my three years as a professional journalist than I did in four years of college. Not just about the profession, either; about everything from agriculture to wind energy to local politics to state government. It's definitely a career where you're constantly learning.

[shimmer728]

Oh, and pistolwhip.....of course you're pissed and disillusioned that you're making $9/hour as a college graduate. It's complete bullshit. That's why you have to get out there and look, look, look for another job. It may take a while, but you'll find something. Good luck! :)

[wordsmith]

shimmer, did your wind energy story run yet? If you need pics, I got some good ones recently.

[shimmer728]

shimmer, did your wind energy story run yet? If you need pics, I got some good ones recently.

No, I think they are saving it for next weekend. I never really know when anything's going to run. ;) :rolleyes: But we do have photos already.

Thanks for the offer! :)

[wordsmith]

I just didn't know if you needed any info from operational facilities.

[shimmer728]

I just didn't know if you needed any info from operational facilities.

Nope, we have some in the region. And soon to be more, someday.

[cheshrcarol]

I have a journalism degree from a Big 10 university, and frankly, I am very, very cynical about my program and others like it. At least at OSU, the majority of J-school classes were theory-based. That makes sense. See, my j-school classes weren't theory at all. They were more like write a lead and have the teacher prod at you to make it better, or edit this paragraph and how can you cut down on that more. Stuff like that. I loved my school and purposely chose it instead of UMASS Amherst (BIG school), which offered to put me in a program for the top 20 communication students, because the classes there were all theory.

[shimmer728]

That makes sense. See, my j-school classes weren't theory at all. They were more like write a lead and have the teacher prod at you to make it better, or edit this paragraph and how can you cut down on that more. Stuff like that. I loved my school and purposely chose it instead of UMASS Amherst (BIG school), which offered to put me in a program for the top 20 communication students, because the classes there were all theory.

Cool. The journalism program at Ohio State has gone waaaaaaayyyyyy downhill in the seven years since I enrolled in it. By the time I graduated, much of the curriculum was totally theory-based, which is crap. Now, there's not even a J-school anymore. It's the School of Communication, and it's not even accredited! And they wonder why I won't donate any money? :twisted:

But yeah, when I started college, it had a fairly decent rep (that's why I chose to go there.) No more. I was lucky that I had the opportunity to get a lot of hands-on experience elsewhere.

[hellboy]

Back to topic...

Well after 5 years of busting my ass to earn a bachelor's of computer science at a nationally accredited university with a B GPA, I find myself working in a call center for $9/hr since it is the only job I could find.
Degree does not guarantee success in any field. Its application of mind that matters. I have seen high school drop-outs program better than me. I am sorry you are without a good job.

I have only 3 "friends" each of which I have not seen in over a month. Welcome to Real world. Ditch your friends and start making friends with ppl who really have a life.

I've started drinking heavily to dull the boredom
You know, i know, the whole world knows. Drinking doesnt solve problems.

I just don't have the motivation for some reason...wonder why that could be. Stop being a bummer. Think of what you would be in 10 yrs from now. Do you like it? I am sorry to say but you are reeling into a dangerous situation. You know where this is going to lead to.

Relax, form a routine and go to gym. IT field is not that hard to get a job, really. Make up your mind for a relentless pursuit of job searching.
What are your skills?

[ConMurph]

But come on... no college graduate should be expected to start off at $9 an hour, and if anyone wants to attack me on that, I'm prepared to defend it.


I make 11 and some change an hour at the law firm I am working at (I graduated last May). That's better, but not by very much.

Interestingly enough, this firm pays it's first year associates 100K plus (which is really good considering this is not a big city. But it is a top 250 law firm). The paralegals make good money as well, but the legal assistants make less than 12 bucks an hour!!. And get this, you have to be a college graduate in order to be a legal assistant at this firm!!! And it's really competitive to get this job!!

I think employers know that recent college grads are just desperate, and can consequentially get away from paying any kind of living wage.

Edited to add: To top it all off, I bill between 40 and 50 per hour. Can you imagine how much they make off of us legal assistants? It's disgusting.

[wordsmith]

Employers also know that most recent grads don't necessarily have the confidence (or background knowledge yet) that comes with experience to really negotiate and negotiate well, and they take full advantage of that.

[lilyflower]

As for the gen ed classes, I do think those were useless, and I'm not backing down from that. I had to take Finite Math in college, a bio class, an intro to psych course, two sociology courses, and two French courses. Have I ever needed to know about finite math or French or bio? No. And I learned more about human nature from the QLC board than I learned in my psych and sociology courses. :D I also don't think courses where you memorize a bunch of random information and then regurgitate it on tests have any educational value, and this unfortunately describes many standard college courses and electives.

Bwah, bio's not useless, WB, well, maybe for everyone on this board but biodork, summergold and myself. :)

Seriously though, I had to take theology classes to graduate - THEOLOGY. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? C'mon.

I could also list the parts of my actual major that are useless - among them ecology, most of organic chem, 90% of physics, to name a few.

[wordsmith]

I loooooooooooooooooved theology classes. Although I didn't have to take any to graduate. I had to take one religion class, but you got to choose. I took one to fill the requirement that was basically a literature and philosophy class. We read things like Chaim Potok's "The Chosen," Elie Wiesel's "Night," Shusaku Endo's "A Life of Jesus," which was Christianity from a Japanese perspective, and Hesse's "Siddhartha."

[lilyflower]

I loooooooooooooooooved theology classes. Although I didn't have to take any to graduate. I had to take one religion class, but you got to choose. I took one to fill the requirement that was basically a literature and philosophy class. We read things like Chaim Potok's "The Chosen," Elie Wiesel's "Night," Shusaku Endo's "A Life of Jesus," which was Christianity from a Japanese perspective, and Hesse's "Siddhartha."

Yeah, THAT I wouldn't have minded. Theology I: Introduction to the Bible, I did.

[shimmer728]

My most useless class was Anthropology. I got a D- in it......my worst grade ever. But hey, it was senior year. :)

[bridgetjones]

WS and Lily, I took a course called The Meaning of Life which made me more confused about said subject. Ofcourse it was heavy on existentialism including the Christian take on it. I thought it might be more "feel good". :(

I found anthro to be fun. Got an A in it.

[WeirdBrake]

Bwah, bio's not useless, WB, well, maybe for everyone on this board but biodork, summergold and myself.

Sus, m'dear, I meant useless for ME! :p Lawyers don't need to know bio. Unless they want to impress people with their knowledge of the mesolimbic dopamine system. But that I got from Dr. Drew on Loveline.

The closest I ever took to a theology class in college was Philosophy of Religion. That was a cool course. We spent the semester exploring the arguments for and against the existence of God, as well as debating it ourselves.

[labrat2111]

Nope, we have some in the region. And soon to be more, someday.

Sorry for the brief thread jack but are those the ones near the PA turnpike? It always strikes me with a bit of awe when I see them driving back from Western PA. I don't know how long they've been there but I remember seeing them in aug 2004 when I came back from vacation and maybe the year before.

[shimmer728]

Sorry for the brief thread jack but are those the ones near the PA turnpike? It always strikes me with a bit of awe when I see them driving back from Western PA. I don't know how long they've been there but I remember seeing them in aug 2004 when I came back from vacation and maybe the year before.

Yep, those are it.

[J-girl]

WS and Lily, I took a course called The Meaning of Life which made me more confused about said subject. Ofcourse it was heavy on existentialism including the Christian take on it. I thought it might be more "feel good". :(

I found anthro to be fun. Got an A in it.
I took anthro too and aced it!! Did you take it with Lumsden? He was awsome.

Yeah anthro was fun. I took an Islamic Anthro course after that as well which was H A R D. But I learnt a lot.

My other gen eds were- History (modern India), film and society, political science. Thats about it. I dont think my gen eds were a waste. If it wasnt for gen eds I would have been a goofy 1 dimensional nerd.

[bridgetjones]

Yeah had Lumsden. As far as electives go I picked mostly psych classes because they were interesting and for the most part not too hard to ace. That philosophy course intrigued me in part bc it was called The Meaning of Life. I also took Drawing. However those classes are time consuming! Sez the confused frustrated artist. :frustrate

[J-girl]

Maybe we were in the same class BJ hmmmn.

I took one psych course but that fulfilled my science credit as opposed to a gen ed one. I needed a science course without lab work and psych was it.

[lilyflower]

Sus, m'dear, I meant useless for ME! :p Lawyers don't need to know bio. Unless they want to impress people with their knowledge of the mesolimbic dopamine system. But that I got from Dr. Drew on Loveline.

The closest I ever took to a theology class in college was Philosophy of Religion. That was a cool course. We spent the semester exploring the arguments for and against the existence of God, as well as debating it ourselves.

Oh, yeah, that's actually interesting. Listening to a priest talk about the Old testament is NOT.

As for bio, yeah, you don't have much use for it unless you want to be a patent attorney. A guy I know was a scientist who eventually went on to law school to be a said patent attorney.

[J-girl]

Hey about the Journalism thing- I was speaking to this man at work who went for a BA in Journalism (but didnt finish it), same with his wife but she actually graduated. And he was telling me how she is awful at writing. She does Legal policy for the feds (not journalism) right now but any memo or report she has to type she brings it home and he does it for her.

Just adding on to some of the points mentioned here.

[temptation]

Your life could be a lot better, pistolgrip. You could be 32 years, just getting your bachelor degree in history, which qualifies you for any job in the world a high school graduate could do.


She's got a point.

Why don't you try a job that's a little more fun for the mean time while you are ACTIVELY searching for a job suited to your qualifications. For example, you could work at a coffee shop part-time where you'd meet a lot of people not to mention attracative women. You might even become friendly with one of the custumors who could hook you up with a job. A call centre is a tough job cuz there is not a lot of face-to-face interaction. Obviously you won't be staying there forever but it might be the change of scene that you need.