The benefits of a Bachelor's - CNN.com

[PVD99]

In an accompanying survey, "Education Pays 2005," the College Board analyzes the benefits in lifetime earnings trends of those who've earned a college degree.

In 2003, workers with bachelor's degrees earned a median of $49,900. Those who'd completed several years of college with no degree had median earnings of $35,700, while those with a high school diploma averaged $30,800.

Projecting this over a 40-year career, the study calculated that a college graduate will earn about 73 percent more than a high school graduate.

[wordsmith]

Yup, the average high school graduate and/or college dropout earns more than my BA-earning ass. Oh, well. Good thing I'm in it for the love and not the money.

[shimmer728]

Yup, the average high school graduate and/or college dropout earns more than my BA-earning ass. Oh, well. Good thing I'm in it for the love and not the money.

Word to that! :D

[PVD99]

I don't really believe those statistics that they give. I guess they're true, but I mean...lots of the people I know that don't have degrees earn like 60-100K doing either a trade or doing sales. :confused:

[shimmer728]

Stats are easily manipulated.

[paiger81]

I think we also need to remember that they polled people who have bachelor's degrees......that isn't "20-somethings who have bachelor's" but everyone.

[wordsmith]

You also have no idea the size, breadth or demographics of the pool of respondents they polled.

[spokes]

i was going to say i am above the median - however perhaps i need to make some allowances for currency differences.....aahh screw it, yeah i am above the median for those with degrees (even though i don't have one)

[Tiean]

I don't really believe those statistics that they give. I guess they're true, but I mean...lots of the people I know that don't have degrees earn like 60-100K doing either a trade or doing sales. :confused:

Yeah, everybody always knows a lot of people who contradicts statistics. But try to think of unemployed, the ones with lousy jobs, etc... Most of them probably fall under the 'hs diploma/no degree'... I tend to believe statistics, at least if they come from someone credible

[Kitty]

This seems like common sense.

[ConMurph]

I don't really believe those statistics that they give. I guess they're true, but I mean...lots of the people I know that don't have degrees earn like 60-100K doing either a trade or doing sales. :confused:

Did you recently read a book that talked about that? A future in law was going off about a book that she recently read about how people do soooo much better without degrees because they are street smart (she loves to point things like this out as if it is some sort of insult to me-it's really weird). Yeah, it happens, but statistically, I would venture to say that these people are relatively rare.

I live in a shitty part of town right now, and I would guess that about 90-95% do not have degrees. If you live in as good area, the people you are likely to meet who didn't graduate from college are much more likely to be making more money (hence, their ability to afford to live in a nicer area). That could account for your experience.

[lilyflower]

What I'd like to know is did they take into account the amount of student debt the average grad has? I might make more than someone without a degree but I have $41K in student loan debt. Call me crazy but I don't think that puts me far ahead of the pack.

[capella]

It'll be 20 years before I make the "median" price. Grrrr.....

[SunDevil]

I would think location would matter as well. If I was in NY, LA, or silicon valley, I would probably be making a lot more.

Now there are exceptions to the rule (Bill Gates, Steve Jobs) who are billionaire college dropouts, and there are millionaire basketball players who have just finished HS. But for a general rule, people you are willing to work hard and do their job better than anyone else are going to make more money.

[yankeeyosh]

There really should be longitudinal studies of these things, which take a cohort representing a high school and the "traditional" corresponding college class (for example, for HS statistics, take the class of 1996 and for college degree statistics, the class of 2000), and over time, determine the changes in salary. By taking a number cohorts, not only would this tell how trends are overall, but they would give trends within an age group and help determine the real rate at which salaries would tend to increase over time. That would be a really fun study, I think.

[jman05]

Its not the degree. The study is falwed because its the quality of people that get a degree that matters. Like if you took the people that went to college and compared them before to the people that choose not to go the people that went to college just come from better families and are more intelligent and driven.

Like highschool. Why do highschool grads make more than non highschool grads. Because most non highschool grads are bums, loosers, in prison or something. Its not the degree but the people.

[Tiean]

Its not the degree. The study is falwed because its the quality of people that get a degree that matters. Like if you took the people that went to college and compared them before to the people that choose not to go the people that went to college just come from better families and are more intelligent and driven.

Like highschool. Why do highschool grads make more than non highschool grads. Because most non highschool grads are bums, loosers, in prison or something. Its not the degree but the people.

Sure you're right, it's just kind of hard to make statistics on which people are 'bums, losers, in prison or something' so researchers use diplomas/degrees instead...

[capella]

if you took the people that went to college and compared them before to the people that choose not to go the people that went to college just come from better families and are more intelligent and driven.

??? Not necessarily. My family sucks monkey butt. They are truly awful. Some of the most knuckleheaded people you could ever meet. Especially my mom. Seriously ("Sorry you can't go to Biology today because you need to take care of my 1 year old"... kind of shit). But I still have a degree.

It's not just that college people "come from 'better' families" it's more along the lines of some people work harder for a better life than others. Why is that? Well, that's got to do with a whole slew of other much more complicated factors.

For one, how about the fact that most people who drop out of high school do so because their family/friend/social culture doesn't exactly revere higher education (or education at all for that matter). They are too young to formulate mature opinions on what they should do with their lives (most probably hadn't even really thought about it until one day life is kicking their asses and they don't know where they went wrong) and don't have decent role models telling them what they should do. I assume this is what you mean by "better" families (i.e., ones that DO value education and college wasn't an IF/MAYBE but a HAVE TO).

There are a lot of factors that go into who pursues a college education and what field they choose when they get done. I'd probably make a lot more money doing something other than teaching, but hey a priority of mine for the job I want to do is that I contribute something to society. This goes for journalism, when I was a journalist, and now for teaching. I'd make a lot of money if I went into PR or advertising or marketing or X, Y, Z, but I wouldn't be satisfied with my list of priorities in a job.

Do something good for the world for most of my waking hours + also make enough to support myself and my family doing it = happy and content daughter of two high school dropouts.

[lilyflower]

I agree with Amy on this. My roots are basically trailer trash. In as, my parents actually lived in a trailer when they had their shotgun wedding at ages 17 and 20 and five months before I was born.

If you look at the statistics, I should've never made it through high school, now I'm (slowly) pursuing my MS Biology and working full-time in science.

I don't know if it's so much cultures and environments as it is personal beliefs. I always thought I was going to make it big. Don't know why, I would watch "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" as a little kid and just knew that would be me someday. A damn lot of people didn't believe in or encourage me. Especially when it was taking me more than 4 years to graduate - my grandfather told me to drop out of college with 91 credits and get a job. (And this was like two days after I got out of the hospital for severe depression)

I wish I could tell you where this belief even came from - but I knew. Corny as it sounds, I've always known I was destined for something great. Maybe that's concieted, but it's what I've always believed and to this day still believe.

[capella]

Heh, my parents never even got to a shotgun wedding. I is elligitimat! :D Anyhow, I don't think it sounds conceited to think you're going to be something someday. I never heard two words of encouragement when I was growing up but I, too, always had a feeling I'd do something worthwhile and be successful in life. I don't know why but I felt like I was worth more than a shit job and a lackluster education.

Personally, I think a lot of it had to do with being well spoken when a LOT of less educated folks can't pull that off. I "blended" if you will with most middle class folks. That helped me along considerably. Most people wouldn't even know I grew up in poverty or that I have family like my family. I guess I "made" it afterall. ;) Whatever. I still feel like I've got a lot to give back and I'll probably write that great American novel. Whether it gets published or not... we'll just have to wait and see.

[lilyflower]

Personally, I think a lot of it had to do with being well spoken when a LOT of less educated folks can't pull that off. I "blended" if you will with most middle class folks. That helped me along considerably. Most people wouldn't even know I grew up in poverty or that I have family like my family. I guess I "made" it afterall. ;)

You know, I think "blending" and appearing middle class is part of the secret to pulling it off.

[yankeeyosh]

I think another issue which is on the same scale is the debate over whether an Ivy League education is worth it. Studies (from Princeton, I believe) show that there is NO significance correlation between whether you go to an Ivy League school and what your future income will be. The argument is that if you're smart and ambitious, you have a greater chance to make a high salary than if you're not. Ivy Leaguers tend to make big bucks BECAUSE they are smart and ambitious, not because they go to Ivy League schools. So you can go to Podunk State College and if you have the same characteristics as a Harvard grad, you won't be any worse off...

Very interesting theory...

[jman05]

You mean this one

http://www.dartreview.com/issues/2.7.00/ivies.html

[jman05]

Also i'd have to say it but the people who come from good families are usually the ones that get the good jobs. Not everyone has jobs out of college. The ones from good families have more connections and go to better colleges. Also empolyers use the term "professional" to describe what they look for in canadates. Professional is really just a fancy word that allows employers to hire people that are good looking and usually at least from a middle class family. You can seriously tell if someone was poor or not just by the way they act and stuff. The people that worked full time through college and who's parents were poor as hell don't usually get jobs or at least the good jobs.

[wordsmith]

Also i'd have to say it but the people who come from good families are usually the ones that get the good jobs. Not everyone has jobs out of college. The ones from good families have more connections and go to better colleges. Also empolyers use the term "professional" to describe what they look for in canadates. Professional is really just a fancy word that allows employers to hire people that are good looking and usually at least from a middle class family. You can seriously tell if someone was poor or not just by the way they act and stuff. The people that worked full time through college and who's parents were poor as hell don't usually get jobs or at least the good jobs.

I live in a small town that's very socially stratified. I'd say that in a situation like that, name recognition helps with networking, for sure. But that really only applies if you seek employment where you're from. If you are working outside an area where anybody KNOWS your name, for better or worse, nobody cares.

Don't make the mistake of thinking socioeconomic history always dictates behavior or perception. I grew up low-income (and my parents are poor as hell, although I consider us a "good" family...and yes, I realize by "good" you're talking socioeconomic standing), and I went to a "better" college, a private liberal arts school via mostly grants and scholarships. I did well in school, I've had good jobs where I've been respected, and I think I'm just as professional as anybody. In fact, I conduct myself MUCH more professionally than some people I come into contact with who would probably be considered to be higher on the social heirarchy, because I'm smarter than they are and have more polish. There are several well-off businesspeople I deal with often in work who conduct themselves VERY unprofessionally, regardless of the money they may come from.

[paiger81]

The people that worked full time through college and who's parents were poor as hell don't usually get jobs or at least the good jobs.

:eek: WHAT?! :eek:

Maybe in your area, but not in my neck of the woods. My cousing grew up PICKING COTTON and is now one of the VP's of Motorola.

[capella]

You can seriously tell if someone was poor or not just by the way they act and stuff. The people that worked full time through college and who's parents were poor as hell don't usually get jobs or at least the good jobs.
What ??? Dude that's so far off. I'd venture to say if you met me you'd never know what my background was like if I didn't tell you about it. That's pretty far off base. Besides... I've had plenty of decent jobs and internships despite my obvious "handicaps" of growing up poor. Give me a break. I'd run circles around some yahoo from a "good" college who bs'ed their way through college and didn't work for shit all four, five or six years while mommy and daddy paid for the ride. Please. :googly:

[pisces2473]

Yup, the average high school graduate and/or college dropout earns more than my BA-earning ass. Oh, well. Good thing I'm in it for the love and not the money.
Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shimmer728]

You can seriously tell if someone was poor or not just by the way they act and stuff. The people that worked full time through college and who's parents were poor as hell don't usually get jobs or at least the good jobs.

This is laughable.

[pisces2473]

I know, Shimmer. I went to college w/some pretty rich people, and their manners/attitudes were despicable.

[WeirdBrake]

Hey, quit attacking Jman! Just because there are a few hundred million counter-examples to everything he's saying doesn't mean he's totally off-base! LOL :rolleyes:

[pisces2473]

Hey, quit attacking Jman! Just because there are a few hundred million counter-examples to everything he's saying doesn't mean he's totally off-base! LOL :rolleyes:
HAHAHAHAHAHA, no, he's just an ignorant sow.

[WeirdBrake]

Jen, I think it's time to spell it out for certain people.

QLC's Guide to Not Getting "Ganged Up On" by Other Members on the Boards

If you make a factual assertion that's definitely true, probably true, or arguably true, and it's not offensive, your chances of being ganged up on are minimal. At most, certain members will probably only respectfully disagree with you. If you make a factual assertion that's completely baseless but not offensive, you may incur larger expressions of disagreement, but your chances of being ganged up on are still pretty low. Now... if you make a factual assertion that's completely baseless AND offensive, then your chances of being ganged up on are at their highest.

I'm glad we've had this talk. :D

[pisces2473]

Jen, I think it's time to spell it out for certain people.

QLC's Guide to Not Getting "Ganged Up On" by Other Members on the Boards

If you make a factual assertion that's definitely true, probably true, or arguably true, and it's not offensive, your chances of being ganged up on are minimal. At most, certain members will probably only respectfully disagree with you. If you make a factual assertion that's completely baseless but not offensive, you may incur larger expressions of disagreement, but your chances of being ganged up on are still pretty low. Now... if you make a factual assertion that's completely baseless AND offensive, then your chances of being ganged up on are at their highest.

I'm glad we've had this talk. :D
Hear hear, WB!

I think we need to add Jman to the "Fools Of QLC List"--right up there with Athena, TankgirlyC, CK, etc.

[capella]

Something else that helps people get good jobs would be having a good grasp on proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation. ;) :p :twisted:

[shimmer728]

That's what I was thinking, Amy!

[shimmer728]

Tell me, jman, because I'm curious. How can you tell a poor person from a more well-off one? Do poor people walk a certain way? Would you be able to tell I was raised middle-class by the way I carry myself? I would love to hear what you have to say.

[lilyflower]

Yes, because growing up poor and learning to work early is so disadvantageous in the "real world" - that's why I make more than all the rich kids I graduated with. Oh wait...

[paiger81]

You know, I'm tempted to say that poor to middle class people could possibly be MORE advantageous in the workforce because they know what it's like to go without & want to work hard to improve themselves. They have learned what is proper behavior, whereas some (NOT ALL) rich people take a lot for granted, and feel that they do not have to act properly cause they can rely on their money...look at Paris Hilton for instance.

[lilyflower]

You know, I'm tempted to say that poor to middle class people could possibly be MORE advantageous in the workforce because they know what it's like to go without & want to work hard to improve themselves. They have learned what is proper behavior, whereas some (NOT ALL) rich people take a lot for granted, and feel that they do not have to act properly cause they can rely on their money...look at Paris Hilton for instance.

I agree completely, Paige

[PVD99]

What is the definition of "poor" in here?

[wordsmith]

What's the definition of poor? Responses to this are either going to really interest me, or really piss me off. Prob. both.

Hmm, I'll answer. My family is/was what they call "working poor." My dad runs a small business in a rural area. We always struggled. My sibs and I were eligible for free and reduced lunches according to the income guidelines in our school district (though we never took them). We never went to the doctor or dentist for routine stuff, because astronomical insurance rates and deductibles for self-employment made it super cost ineffective. We weren't neglected, but preventative care was unfortunately demoted to luxury...we went when there was a problem, only. We couldn't take vacations (although when a childhood friend of my dad's bought a cabin in northern Wisconsin, and invited us to use it whenever, we got to do that...but no Disneyworld, etc.). I wore a ton of hand me down clothes from my older cousin, who was a spoiled only child with a very nice wardrobe, so I'd often get designer clothes that were unworn, she had so much. My brothers were athletes, and my dad found ways to make sure they could get the equipment they needed, which included selling his childhood collection of baseball cards. My grandparents bought us lots of things my parents couldn't afford. Our cars were always broken down, because we couldn't afford repairs. My grandmother floated loans sometimes for that, and let us use her car, too. We belonged to a food co-op that was mostly used by low income people, because it allowed you to buy groceries at wholesale cost in exchange for so many hours of community service. We grew a lot of our own food, and had chickens, etc. so we had eggs and stuff.

When I say we always struggled, that means I went without a lot of stuff a lot of "middle class" families take for granted, although we appeared probably lower middle class.

However, my first job out of college was working with kids living in SEVERE, inner city crackhouse poverty, and the above was a walk in the park, compared. I also studied in Africa in college and got an upclose look at third world poverty. That's poor. It's all relative.

[shimmer728]

I say I'm poor now. Truthfully, I'm not, not by any income standards. My mother gets pissed off when she hears me complain of being poor, because she says I don't understand what it is at all. She is probably right.

I guess poor to me is not being able to afford food or pay your basic utility bills.

[paiger81]

I think Jess gives a good example of what I think of when I think of poor. If you got free lunches & were on the Salvation Army Christmas tree, you were poor. EXTREME poverty is what Kirk(my SO) went through, where family could not pay bills, lived in houses that had no running water, etc.

My family was upper middle class, but my parents were poor growing up(dad's family were gypsy's-the real kind; mom's family picked cotton) & worked hard for their money together. THey made sure to raise us to know that money was NOT a free pass to get whatever you want.

[jman05]

Its from my personal experience at least. Im not lying or trying to be biased. And no its not 100% true. I went to a rich college and a poorer college and I could definately tell a difference in the student body and income levels. I would haft to say that some of the greatest leaders come from poor backgrounds or had to work hard to get where they are. So in that sence the more you have to go through builds character. I know stories of alot of ceo's and great leaders who grew up poor. Bill Clinton was never rich as a kid and I think his father even walked out on his family. But its just from my personal experience that most of the kids from poor families vs rich families arent nearly as successful.

[WeirdBrake]

So, ok, what you're essentially saying is that it's from your personal experience. You're not lying or trying to be biased. And you concede that it's not 100% true. You went to a rich college and a poorer college, and you could definitely tell a difference in the student body and income levels. You would have to say that some of the greatest leaders come from poor backgrounds or had to work hard to get where they are. So, in that sense, the more you have to go through builds character. You know stories of many CEOs and great leaders who grew up poor. Bill Clinton was never rich as a kid; his father even walked out on his family. But it's just from your personal experience that most of the kids from poor families vs. rich families aren't nearly as successful.

I think I get what you're saying now. :)

[lilyflower]

So, ok, what you're essentially saying is that it's from your personal experience. You're not lying or trying to be biased. And you concede that it's not 100% true. You went to a rich college and a poorer college, and you could definitely tell a difference in the student body and income levels. You would have to say that some of the greatest leaders come from poor backgrounds or had to work hard to get where they are. So, in that sense, the more you have to go through builds character. You know stories of many CEOs and great leaders who grew up poor. Bill Clinton was never rich as a kid; his father even walked out on his family. But it's just from your personal experience that most of the kids from poor families vs. rich families aren't nearly as successful.

I think I get what you're saying now. :)

I don't but poor grammar and spelling tend to make poorly designed arguments even worse, WB :)

[jman05]

What im saying is that yes, there are some poor people that do just fine. Is that hard to figure out. Hence, its not 100%. Make any sence to you yet.

[WeirdBrake]

Alright. Easy there, cowboy.

[shimmer728]

What you're saying makes total.......sense. ;)

I still disagree with it, though.

[capella]

people=who
things=that

And did you ask a question. I didn't see any questions??

I should be a grammar cheerleader...

Gimme a G. G!

:p

While what you're saying may make "sense" it's still not saying much. What's your point? Oh wait. I don't think you really have one. I'm still completely offended by your assumptions of poor-dar. I think people who can't spell, use punctuation or compose sentences using basic rules of grammar are uneducated. Should I assume you're uneducated?

[WeirdBrake]

I should be a grammar cheerleader...

But don't be a grammar cheerleader for a losing team. ;)

[capella]

But don't be a grammar cheerleader for a losing team. ;)
Grammar has no team. Grammar roots for the written word!!

[WeirdBrake]

Yes, but on the baseball diamond of the written word, there are those who take their grammatical bats, see the incoming linguistic curve balls, and still hit home runs. Then there are those who strike out.

[capella]

Yes, but on the baseball diamond of the written word, there are those who take their grammatical bats, see the incoming linguistic curve balls, and still hit home runs. Then there are those who strike out.
:lol: :lol: Can I put this on a poster and hang it in my classroom? I could use it to teach metaphor, too!!!

:twisted:

[WeirdBrake]

Really? I'd feel honored. :razz:

[and1grad]

Really? I'd feel honored. :razz:
Ya cuz we ALL know how much you love school. :razz:

[shimmer728]

While what you're saying may make "sense" it's still not saying much. What's your point? Oh wait. I don't think you really have one. I'm still completely offended by your assumptions of poor-dar. I think people who can't spell, use punctuation or compose sentences using basic rules of grammar are uneducated. Should I assume you're uneducated?

This is exactly what I was thinking.

[lilyflower]

people=who
things=that

And did you ask a question. I didn't see any questions??

I should be a grammar cheerleader...

Gimme a G. G!

:p

While what you're saying may make "sense" it's still not saying much. What's your point? Oh wait. I don't think you really have one. I'm still completely offended by your assumptions of poor-dar. I think people who can't spell, use punctuation or compose sentences using basic rules of grammar are uneducated. Should I assume you're uneducated?


Thank you, Amy. This was my point exactly, if someone insists on posting offensive derogatory BULLSHIT then they should be at least able to construct a properly organized and correctly spelled post.

Otherwise, they just look like a giant ass and will be called on it. Repeatedly. :)

[temptation]

I've always known I was destined for something great. Maybe that's concieted, but it's what I've always believed and to this day still believe.

That's dope. I am rapt by your ambition.