The DRUG "WAR"? What's the real deal? How easy is it to "score"? Who's "win

[jku]

Weirdbrake said something, and I completely agree.
The Drug War is a huge waste of taxpayer money - and a total failure. Some critics charge its a BIGGER failure than prohibition and has done more to infringe on our individual rights than 1000 John Ashcrofts. What do people here think?

W-BRAKE said:
I agree about how stupid people are. Here's a great example: We often face huge prison overcrowding in society.
But ironically, this is not because we have such a glut of evil criminals. It's because we stupidly insist on
incarcerating people for victimless crimes like drug possession/use/sale. So we lock up all these nonviolent drug
offenders, and they overcrowd the prisons. Hell, if we decriminalized all drugs and let out all the druggies, we'd
take care of the overcrowding problem right away.

But legislators and politicians won't do that. Why not? Because it would be political suicide even to suggest
decriminalizing all drugs. Why? Because people are so stupid that they really buy into the whole "war on drugs"
nonsense, and the lawmaking officials are mostly elected by the public. Hence why the decriminalization of drugs is not likely to happen anytime soon.
"War on Drugs," what a joke. How can people have such hypocritical outrage toward the crack dealer on the street
who's "selling drugs to children" but feel completely loving toward their Uncle Bob who's an executive at Philip
Morris and does basically the same thing? Why throw one in jail but give the other a warm family hug at
Thanksgiving dinner? Maybe because one is often poor and black, and the other isn't. Just a thought.

[Benwa]

I agree the drug war is an idiotic venture. First, why do we have to "declare war" on any social issue that appears. It's just a vocabulary term, but it says infinitely more about how we solve problems. If theres a problem, annihilate those who perpetrate it. Because obviously we know what is right and must rid the world of the evildoers. Its a prime example of that american arrogance that people hate so much.

In fact on global scale, drug production mysteriously increases everywhere we go. In afghanistan, the taliban nearly wiped out poppy production for opium. But since we "freed" the afghani people, drug production has increased at an insane rate. Whether intentional or not, our gov't presence is the cause. IMO, it breaks down to alot of folks higher up in the process making money. You can't tell me all these drugs get into america without a higher up involved. Impossible. I don't know who, CIA, corrupt officials. But frankly I don't care. They reep what they sow.

but how to get the public to believe in the war on drugs. They use the favored tactic to win support for any other war. Fear. Fear the guy who sells drugs in the neighborhood. He's the guy you can see, never mind the kingpins who double as respected american ambassadors. Fear the little guy who may have valid reasons to sell drugs. Also its important to instill fear over the drug user. They are obviously of weak moral fiber and will slit your throat for a fix. Almost every person I've met whose into drugs is generally a good person. And the ones who aren't, would still be pricks even if they weren't a user. Just look at how laughable those antidrug commercials are. A simpleton can see through that propaganda.

Lets say you truly belive there is a drug problem, then better methods need to be used to solve it. If something we try doesn't work, we just try harder the next year. Sink more money and man hours into it. If it still doesn't work, try even harder. And if it still doesn't work, start blaming somebody for not doing it correctly(whoever is in charge at that time). Don't do something harder, just do something different. Legalize drugs for 5 years, actually put a self destruct clause into the law. I don't know what will happen but lets find out. After 5 years, reexamine it. Don't like that plan? Then try something different. Try something! But as usual I am too idealistic. That would take an openmindedness that is unheard of. But theres always a little glimmer of hope in me that we can get there.

[pisces2473]

This may be a little off-topic, but I'll try and connect it. This weekend I was talking with my friends about world events and I said something about how everything is always centered on the Middle East, the Indian-Pakistani problem, some countries in Africa and China/Korea. I said, "Isn't it weird how we never hear anything going on in South America? It's like, 'Oh they are quiet, so we'll ignore them.'" One of my friends replied, "The US government doesn't care what they do down there since we get money from drugs--as long as they don't get too crazy." Just think about how NOT often you see news about things in South America and how we don't have very many issues with any of those countries.

What do you think?

[jku]

Excellent points. As Benwa and Pisces stated, there is something going on - especially in South America. Lots of people are making money. Recently, I had privy to some e-mails that detailed the connection within the Rap business (Puffy, Death Row Records) to money laundering from the drug business. This is a story still being researched.

A new book, "REEFER MADNESS" by Eric Schlosser, the guy who wrote FAST FOOD NATION estimates the whole black market economy at MINIMALLY $1 TRILLION (1000 Billion!), which is 10% minimally of the AMERICAN ECONOMY. The best example of what a lie the drug war is to the American people is the fact that the U.S. Government is well aware the officials in Mexico make lots of money from the drug trade. They tacitally allow drugs to flow in and money out - but they still fund a "drug war" down there, get the photos on the news, and use it for political capital.

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The best book I read on the topic is called "WHY OUR DRUG LAWS HAVE FAILED AND WHAT WE CAN DO" by Judge James Gray. If you have a chance, check it out.

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As TUPAC said, the drug war is really a war on poor people. Priveledged kids (like our President and his daughters who recently smoked pot at Ashton Kutcher's house) don't suffer under the law.

I enjoy pot, but I hate trying to get it and feeling anxious when I have it. Why can't I just grow one plant in my backyard!!? I'm an honest, hard-working, tax-paying citizen - why am I made to feel like a criminal!?

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My hope is that our generation will eventually get into power and change the system around. It's such a part of the culture for people in our age group - this insanity has to stop.

[coll214]

The "drug war" will never go away as long as its referred to as such and is being handled by old, rich white guys. I think the real way to take care of the problem is to cutoff supply. without any supply, there would be no demand. Granted that's an impossible task, but stop putting drug addicts into prison, and put them into rehab.

[Neo]

Sure, everyone here is right. Many good ideas get spawned here eh? But what are you going to do about it?

Sunday night, a buddy of mine was just telling me how he's got some weed at his house and friends are coming over to smoke it with him. And by the way, these are intelligent professionals/college graduates. They all work for this big company which I rather not name. So what would you have done if you were me? Tell them "don't do drugs"?

So my question for you all is what would you do in that situation? Would you go give them a big lecture like you are doing it now? Is that gonna have any positive impact at all?

What happens when homes walk up to you offering some? Besides turning them down are you gonna call the cops on them?

So what will you do in simple situations such as these? My guess is that you gonna did what I did-- NOTHING. right?

[pisces2473]

You're exactly right Neo. We don't do anything and we can't do anything. I've never smoked pot and I don't care to try it. The friends I have that still do it know my views on it so they don't bring it up around me, but I'm sure they still do it every once in awhile. Oh well...it's hard NOT to be complacent because it doesn't seem as though there's an answer in sight. :confused:

[jku]

It's interesting that NEO would feel guilty that he didn't stop his friends from smoking pot, or that some people have never tried pot.

I take it for granted living in Southern California - its such a part of our culture here. Everyone I knew - maybe 80% had smoked pot by the time they finished high school - and this was a white, upper middle class school by the beach in suburbs. By the end of college, forget about it. Everyone had tried it or been around it.
These days, friends who are physicians, lawyers, investment bankers, artists, media types, office workers - all smoke pot recreationally on the weekends at parties and such.

In my experience, its benign. I've seen the worst damage done to human beings come from alcohol and tobacco, far worse than anything pot can do to a person - with the exception of making them fat and slow - but since many Americans these days are fat and slow, they kind of fit in better actually.

This country is in such a hysteria over pot. It's the user-friendly drug - politicians use it to get re-elected and condemn aspects of society. Musicians/rappers use it to sell albums. Kids use it to rebel and feel cool. Young adults use it to rebel and feel cool.

I use it to learn to enjoy the present moment. To heighten my sensitivity to all the wonderful aspects of life occuring around me. It's been a very positive, peaceful, learning experience. I actually have sympathy for those who have never known such levels of suspended bliss.

I look at it like this...
You can visit Disneyland, enjoy it for a day, come back and look back on the memories. That's healthy.
Or you can move to Disneyland, stay there forever, and forget all the other important parts of your life.

Marijuana has to be made legal in our lifetime. The only thing preventing it is very powerful political influence through money from SEAGRAMS, and the pharmaceutical industry - as well as the ignorance in our society of what it REALLY is.

[pisces2473]

Pot is highly used in New England, maybe not as prevalent as in California...it's not that I am anti-pot, I just don't choose to do it. And I won't hang out with my friends when they do it--most of them live hours from me now so it's not really an issue. I never tried it because I don't like things that alter my natural state. I'm not a big drinker either. To each their own is my motto. I don't judge people, as long as they don't judge me. :)

[jku]

That's a good philosophy Pisces - live and let live - now I just wish our government would adopt that ideology as well.

The Libertarian utopia in which adults should do what they want to do as long as it does not hurt another person and is done between two consenting adults is the right mind set - I see us heading in that direction as the natural course of events unfolds.

[Benwa]

I agree with leaving people the hell alone. If they want to smoke weed let them smoke. Eventually they'l realize its not a big deal and sometimes it sucks because you don't get anthing done. I always marvel at the people who could smoke and go rollerblade or something. The only thing I could manage was some writing. Then when I read it after the buzz I had no idea what it was about or why I thought it was so amazing when I wrote it. I don't smoke much anymore because I tend to sit there and go comletely internal. I didn't completely quit and I never felt I had a problem.

JKU, would you say we live in a utopian society now. Everything would be super if what? People were perfect! So we keep trying to devise ways to make people perfect. We make laws to try to make them be nice to eachother. We invent religion to guilt them into trying to be more perfect. And in reality we have become less and less perfect over the years. We aren't nicer to eachother, we don't respect eachother, we don't feel brotherhood with eachother. I would say things have become worse and worse over time since we decided we need to be perfect. Maybe we should just forget about people becoming perfect. Let them be f#cked up and crazy. Murder will always happen, rape will always happen, assault will always happen. Maybe the reason those things seem so bad is because we make them so. I'm not saying murder and rape should be overlooked. But instead of punishment, do whatever it takes to restore the peace. Ther has to be a better way.

[jku]

Thanks W-brake -
Let me tell you I'm the first person to agree with you. I've seen pot kill motivation and tenacity in so many people - you're 100% right. The thing is that I use it maybe once every 4-6 weeks - I look at it like having a drink - which I don't do. I find alcohol to be awful - a slow poison that numbs, then weakens. I've seen chronic stoners turn into really BORING people.

I did a few papers for a public health class in college and found some research in Europe that of all the "soft" drugs we have available to us in American society, when taken in STRICT moderation, pot is the most benign. Alcohol and tobacco have PHYSICALLY addictive properties - in terms of neurochemistry, tobacco is more addictive than HEROIN!

Chlidren with a genetic predisposition for alcohlism are in a mess of trouble as well. Pot has a PSYCHOLOGICALLY addictive component in that people who use it frequently start to think they can't truly relax until they get "high." I actually find more pleasure in a strenuous workout, surfing for 3 hours, or working for 12 hours. Pot is kind of a break in the numerous ways I like to "change my consciousness." But you're right - it's not for EVERYONE.
Cheers!

[Neo]

Man I don't feel guilty at all for not stopping him. It's his own biz to smoke whatever he feel like smoking. I found his stories interesting. When we were in college, he bought like 1.5 pound of pot once and sold 2/3 of it to other people-- these stoners. Every time they saw him after that, they'll always ask my friend for pot even though it was just a one time thing for him.

In my honest opinion, I don't think people who use or sell think that much about it as you guys are doing now. They just do it. And THAT is the problem at its core-- disregard for others. If we can legalize alcohol, why can't we legalize pot? Sure, but there will still be drunk drivers.

[wordsmith]

I feel compelled to point out that while I agree with a lot of what is being said on this thread, I'd really be hesitant to lump drug possession/use/sale as categorically victimless crimes. Children who are neglected/abused/not taken care of properly by addict parents are victims. Innocent people caught in the crossfire in drug sale-motivated gang disputes are victims. I don't see how you can argue that people don't ever victimize others with their personal choices.

[jku]

The only reason we have drug related crime, is because drugs are illegal and unregulated on the black market. I think we should start with marijuana, and have it sold and regulated by the US Government. And use the proceeds to pay down state deficts, and support schools --- is it any wonder that the Partnership for a Drug Free America is sponsored by Seagrams and Philip Morris??