Nickel & Dimed - has anybody read this book?

[dakotagopher]

Yesterday I read a book, "Nickel & Dimed, on (not) getting by in America" by Barbara Ehrenreich. Very easy read, took about 3 hours to read cover to cover. this was a NY TImes bestseller, apparantly, though i had not heard of it until I stumbled across it in the store.

Ehrenreich is a writer that went "undercover" and tried to survive on minimum wage type jobs. She tried for a month in three states (FL, ME and MN) and pretty much failed dismally. She could not make enough money to pay rent and buy food & clothes, basically. She worked as a waitress, a maid, a health care cafeteria aid, and as a full time Wal Mart employee; she ususally made around $7 per hour.

Her point is that there are millions of people working for under $15 per hour that are stuck there, with no chance at escaping the poverty cycle. The book left me despondant.

Would be interested in feedback; has anybody else read this book? What impressions did it leave? Any ideas on how to fix this problem in our society?

[pisces2473]

A lot of us on the board have read this book (see the books threa under "play"). I loved it--I think she exposed a lot of myths that we have been led to believe about the working poor. One myth that she destroyed is that the working poor does exist and they are the backbone of our society. I think she said something like "these are the people who watch our children, clean our homes, serve our food and look how we treat them." It made me frustrated because we don't pay people that work in these jobs enough money so that they can live in a humble apartment. They are stuck living in hotels eating poorly, thus leading to them being sick and receiving free health care which drives costs up for the rest of society. The answer is so simple--pay these people more so that they can better take care of themselves (with food, shelter and health care) and then no one would have to complain about rising health care costs because of the burdens of the indigent, etc. Work would be done better and people would have more pride in their jobs because they were being compensated appropriately for the work that they did. Just because a job as a janitor isn't as glamourous as a stockbroker doesn't mean we should pay the janitor a pittance.

[jku]

Excellent book DGopher!
I wish the Limbaugh/Hannity talk radio jerk-offs who complain that "these people are lazy and don't want to work" would read it as well.

I heard a lecture Ehrenreich gave over public radio. She has a PhD if I'm not mistaken, and said that even learning menial tasks for each job was a constant challenge. Her book, to me, gave a voice to the voiceless in our society. It touched my heart.

During the last election cycle - there was a LOCAL proposal here in Santa Monica to give a "living wage" to hotel and amusement park employees. It was a VERY popular initiative among people in West Los Angeles. But there was a HUGE campaign that was funded by corporate interests from across to country to defeat it. The fear was that if it took off here, the rest of the country would also have to consider giving a "living wage" to their workers.

The voters were misguided and lied to via slate mailers from "liberal" groups that were supposedly "against the measure." You know those flyers you get in the mail around election time that say "we, the tree hugger granola Americans for Peace, encourage you to vote YES on NADER, YES on 129, and NO on JJ (JJ being the "living wage initiative"). Such a symptom of the disease of GREED!

http://www.laane.org/pressroom/stories/sm030222surfsantamonica.html

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/5722

There is a new book by a former chancellor at Oberlin College. It's called "RANKISM" - he discusses how our society has created a group of people who are dominated without any respect. Whether its in a classroom, or with a nanny, its all around us! This is wrong! All people deserve dignity and a chance to make the American dream come true if they're willing to work for it!

I see time and time again, these conservative types out there telling lies - blaming poor people for their inability to make a living and taking money from "people who work." I know its a generalization, but there are so many stories that come by my desk detailing this blatant inequity in the pursuit of vicious greed.

When will our country wake up!?

[Benwa]

I'm not sure our country will ever wake up, jku. I haven't read the book, but I've heard about it and plan on reading it soon. I don't know if she touched on this, but the vast majority of homeless people have full time jobs. Even if its collecting bottles, they definetly put in the hours. I would be willing to say there a very few if any lazy homeless, because if your lazy your dead. Surviving is a full time job.

The poor have always been the backbone of civilization. They carry the load and all they get for it is a sore back. I wish to live in something other than civilization, but for those who want to remain "civilized" the huddled masses will always be there. There is no solution because civilization depends on the foundation of the working poor. There may be varying levels of poor in different systems, but there are always more poor than rich. Always. I used to be despondant at this fact, but in reality it is what will save humanity. The poor have the numbers and they are who will bring an immense social change. We are going to make the decision to save ourselves and not wait to be saved by someone else. We will begin to save eachother. Don't be despondant, feel the immense sense of empowerment. We run the show, the rich and powerful think they run it but its an illusion. Even someone who makes decent wage is still poor. I consider poor to be defined as being a wage slave. There's something better. There has to be, otherwise we won't be around much longer.

[pisces2473]

Benwa--get the book now! :) You'll really like it. And yes, she does talk about homeless people and how most have full time jobs. They are homeless because they cannot afford to pay for decent housing on the money they make, thus their pay goes towards food and basic necessities for survival.

[StateNAurora]

So what is a living wage, what should the new minimum wage be? I know Ithaca, New York where I went to college is a very progressive town is currently debating on a living wage? I'm surprised they haven't implemented one already, prior to the war they passed a bill denouncing the use of force in Iraq.

[jku]

I think a living wage is somewhere between $10.50 and $15.

I recall when I was working the desk research overnight - I'd be in at 2:30am. I'd run into some of the overnight janitorial crew and chat with them in my basic spanish - they said I was the first person to even speak to them which was shocking. We in the middle class often treat them as invisble people. They told me they often work SPLIT shifts, which is midnight to 4am, then 9am to 6pm. Some people were working 2am to 8am then 11am to seven! Unbelievable! They worked so hard, and still lived 2-3 people to a room, shared cars, and saved enough money to send back to Mexico or Guatemala.

Anytime I felt the urge to complain about work, I'd think about their struggle. A few dollars per hour more and they could live a normal life. Again, the disease here is greed.

Companies can make plenty of money AND pay their employees - it's not a choice!

[pisces2473]

It's those in control who are the greedy ones...

I'm now reading a book called "Bobos In Paradise" by David Brooks. Bobo is a term he came up with describing the Bourgeois Bohemians--"today's upper class...who have wed the bourgeois world of capitalist enterprise to the hippie values of the bohemian counterculture" (taken from the back of the book). I'm only on page 40 and it's great to see how these people have evolved in our society. I hope I'm never a bobo--sounds like a negative term you'd give someone, like a dummy, LOL.

[dakotagopher]

Yes it is all nice and well to rail against The Man (ha), but what solutions do we propose to fix the problem?

Is it as easy as increasing the minimum wage to, say, $15/hour? What would happen if the gov't would guarantee every full time worker in the nation $30,000 per year (pulling numbers out of the air here). Would that solve the problem overnight? Or would it only exacerbate it? It would seem this would lead to an inflationary spin in housing prices? What impact does increasing Min Wage have on GDP, etc? I majored in Econ but hate it. I think i skipped that class. Probably hung over.

It seemed most of the authors problems came from the cost of housing, ie, she was paying 60%+ of her wages just for a cheapo dive rental unit. Perhaps the solution is more subsidized housing to allow these folks to accumulate money for downpayment on a home of their own? Homeownership is the key to wealth for regular people, after all.

I have long been a proponent of any program that will educate people and provide vertical opportunity, from Head Start programs through college loan/grants. This is a long term solution, however, and the author seemed several times in the book to allude to a general sense of apathy and malaise among her coworkers that were trapped in these lowpaying jobs.

Perhaps the sense of apathy was a result of no light at the end of the tunnel; if they had a chance to "climb up" to better paying jobs, would they take it? Even if opportunity were presented to them, woudl they take advantage of it? And if they would, who then would do the "menial" work? If the "menial" work pays enough, will some "non-menial" workers leave their boring office jobs and take over?

I know several people I went to High School with that work jobs like this, and they are dirt poor. Lots of them have kids. Totally trapped in the cycle. Many of them had chances to "escape" the cycle, but did not take them (one, for example, had a college scholarship but chose to forgo college to go to work full time in the box factory. I still remember her saying "when you guys are done w/college, I"ll have four years of experience under my belt and be making good money". Well, she probably makes $30k a year, but that's all she'll ever make at that job).

The author referred to this a couple of times in the book; I think her spin on it was that people are 1) afraid of change, so even if they're in a bad situation, it's hard to walk away and start again, and 2) people feel loyalty to their employers, even if they are paid dirt wages for brutal effort. I have long seen this, and as I am nudged into management I see this with high salaried folks as well; a gal that could demand, and get, a $70,000 salary settles for $50,000 because she is intimidated by the boss during salary review, and takes the first offer. Doesn't even press for the $70k, and never seriously considers shopping her talent to a competitor. An example.

Interesting. Anybody have ideas on solutions? again, is it as simple as raising the minimum wage?????

[jku]

Railing against the "man" is the first step. Doing something about is second. I believe the best way to change things is political/social awareness and activism.

In regards to increasing wages, the immediate impact would be that people working at minimum wage wouldn't need THREE JOBS. In regards to housing, if we as a society were really interested in helping each other out, we would call tax credits that could be applied to rent for instance. Now depending on the region you live in, there are various degrees of vacancy rates which haven't been figured in. But the hope is that you could have a living wage, save some money towards a down payment, and eventually buy a house and have personal wealth. More people would spend money in turn, and since consumer spending is 60% of the economy, this would be a good thing.

But when caught in the trap of minimum wage jobs, there is basically ZERO chance to break from this cycle. I think that is the point of the book.

In regards to Head Start and other programs that HELP people, our Administration is opposed to this on every level. If you look carefully at their agenda, its to starve all social programs, and create an increasing DISPARITY between wealth classes. Ultimately we'll end up in a world of virtual slavery, in which mobility between jobs is limited. Just getting a job will be a priviledge. Social programs to help those down on their luck will be completely gutted, desperate poverty will be the norm, even for once middle class college graduates - not just the poor and uneducated.

In regards to Head Start and college loans, please look at the record:
http://bush-cheney.net/issues/education.html

But you're right D-Gopher - you can lead a horse to water, but you can't MAKE them drink. Apathy is actually encouraged in our society. For a truly capitalistic society to function - there have to be winners and losers. But we must give those WILLING to work to improve their lives every chance possible.

Right now, opportunity is our scarcest national resource. This present government provides ZERO tangible hope for the future.

[reva_544]

Originally posted by dakotagopher
What would happen if the gov't would guarantee every full time worker in the nation $30,000 per year (pulling numbers out of the air here).

Sounds strikingly similar to communism to me.

I'll tell you what would happen! Uproar! I hold a four-year accounting degree and recently became licensed as a Certified Public Accountant in the state of Michigan. Now, granted I have sucky health coverage too, but do you know how much I make? Using my budgeted hours for the year, I make $18.75 per hour. I have friends in the same profession who make less. You're telling me its a good idea to give the guy working behind the cash register at McDonalds 15 dollars AN HOUR! So working my ASS off through high school and college doesn't get me much more than I can get flipping burgers.

Now I feel for the poor just as much as the next person...in fact, my soft spot for community involvement is doing what I can to help the poor, but I'm sure our econ major here can tell you that major inflation would be right around the corner if wages increased that much. Or a communist society...take your pick!

There's no easy answer to this problem...but this is a CAPITALIST society, which means we have opportunities to work hard and obtain SKILLS to be a successful and contributing member of society. Some people have it easier than others in this department, this is true...but that's just life. They probably got screwed over in some other area of their life. I'm very thankful for the people who clean our building, and I wish the restrooms were self-cleaning and there weren't so many jerks out there who look down on them. All you can do is change the way you live your own life.

[jku]

Reva is right - it does sound like communism if we gave EVERYONE close the same wage regardless of their education, skill-level, etc.

However, I think the point of our discussion is a LIVING WAGE, whatever that may be. In Los Angeles/New York, the cost of living is higher than Phoenix for instance, so somewhere between $10 and $15 would be necessary. I don't know what a living wage would be in Michigan. What do you think?

I believe we as a society and people are judged by the way we treat the least among us. This being the wealthiest country in the world, poverty should be obsolete. All human beings deserve basic food, shelter, clothing. Am I wrong?

[Benwa]

Your right that everyone deserves the necessities of life. But that isn't going to happen in any civilized society. It depends on people to work. Will they work for bobbles and trinkets, maybe a little. But how to get them to put out maximum effort? Make them work for food. Make them work for survival. Work or die! This is a characteristic in every system ever since we were duped into thinking being civilized is a swell idea. Those in charge control the food. Even if youre a farmer, you grow a certain crop, but depend on market for survival. Except for the small percentage od people who grow what they eat, but you need to buy your land which means you still have to toil. Unless somehow your land is free. Even then your still and oasis in a world of poo and it effects you.

I believe everyone deserves food. The only way to accomplish that is if food and other necessities are free. People would work less, production would dwindle, fewer things to buy. With our necessities covered, we would buy less and less meaningless crap. If the bases were covered we wouldn't need rulers, probably leaders but not rulers. You'd naturally live around people who you feel comfortably. You'd have time to do things you enjoy like painting, writing, music. Develop a skill in something you enjoy rather than something you feel forced to do. Say you pick sculpting, you will become highly skilled and become a kick ass sculptor. You could use your sculpture to trade for things other groups of people are good at. There you go, we've just evolved.

There would still be problems. People will still do bad things to each other. There may be an occasional skirmish. But your group would decide on the best course of action to get life back to normal as quickly as possible. what is best for the group

I tell people I'm against civilization and they think I'm the devil. But it's a very loving and compassionate dream. I can't logically accept the idea that somehow we are at the pinnacle of our evolution. That somehow this shitty mess is our apex. We got it wrong. It isn't work or die, it's change or die.

[sunbear]

if you look at the mechanics of our capitalistic environment, there's no even ground. Our education system is the only thing we have to make an even comparison. I guess "we're" guilty if we didn't do our homework or get the skills. Our country has a lot of other problems.
But at the same time, if 95% of our population only has 5% of the nation's wealth- inflation is high and we're in a lot of debt. If the cost of living is based of some sort of middle grounds here, this is why we can't afford to make a living. Even here in San Diego, the postal workers, teachers, even the military: and other necessary people in our community are being "taxed in sunshine" and don't get a fair salary to maintain a quality of life. So many volunteers come from Mexico, because they're the only ones who can take the money back home and live comfortably.

Corperate is cheap and abusive, they don't ever get called on it. Workers arn't going to rat, or rock the boat. I think Affirmative Action is a cheap fix existing policies the government is too apathetic to enforce. Discrimination, nepotism, and favoritism happens all of the time.
Our poverty line as far as taxes are concerned have not moved up with inflation, which is 3%/year. I think corperations don't always move the base pays/salaries to keep up with it. I'm not sure if minimum wage keeps up.
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Reva, I know you worked your tail off for that certification. I have a degree and a series 7 and 63- and I understand what it takes to pass these things. It's a capitalistic society- some people are manipulating that too well. There are monopoly laws, etc. that can't get enforced, etc.. I'm against communism, but I think that our capitalistic society has much to be desired.
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Just my rant* I'm glad the author came out with this book, I think everyone needs to read it.

[StateNAurora]

Here's a good outline of exactly whata living wage represents. The Tompkins County Coalition for a Living Wage( Ithaca, NY) is trying to persuade the county to pass a living wage bill. Tonight it was up for debate at the assembly meeting. They want all county contracys to go to companies who provide a living wage for its workers, sounds fare to me. Keep in mind the numbers are based on living in a small college town community, although the colleges(Cornell and Ithaca College) tend to help inflate the cost of living. Does anyone else know the cost of living in their community?



WHAT IS A LIVING WAGE?
A living wage is the minimum hourly wage that a person can live on without struggling to get by. A person earning a living wage can live with basic human dignity without regularly having to ask the government or friends, family, or their communities for help.

A living wage is a universal human right. Articles 23, 24, and 25 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights make it clear:

All people who work have the right to just and favourable pay that ensures for themselves and their families an existence worthy of human dignity.

All people have the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of themselves and of their families, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond their control.

Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

The living wage for Tompkins County is calculated according to the basic costs of living in our County and it must be recalculated every few years to make up for changes in the cost of living. A living wage for someone living alone is different from the living wage for someone who has a child.

For a living wage in Tompkins County, * a single adult needs $8.43 / hr + benefits (health, dental, retirement) * a single parent with one child needs $14 /hr + benefits * two parents with two children need to make $9.50 /hr per person + benefits

* The above numbers are for someone working full-time (40hrs / week) all year. They are based on studies sponsored by AFCU (2001), and the NYS Self-Sufficiency Standard Steering Committee (2000).

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=8212871&BRD=1395&PAG=461&dept_id=216620&rfi=6