Only 31% of men independent by age 30. [Archive]

ma1939

11-29-2005, 11:29 PM

Only 31% of Men Achieve This By Age 30

The true measure of adulthood is not 18 or 21. The true measure of adulthood is reaching these benchmarks: leaving home, finishing school, getting married, having a child, and being financially independent. By that standard only 31 percent of men and 46 percent of women have reached adulthood by age 30, reports The Washington Post of a study from the University of Pennsylvania. In 1960, fully 65 percent of men and 77 percent of women had achieved these accomplishments by age 30.

Why the incredible delay for young people today? One simple reason. (And it's not because the kids are slackers or their parents coddle them far too long.) "The primary reason for a prolonged early adulthood is that it now takes much longer to secure a full-time job that pays enough to support a family," lead researcher Frank J. Furstenberg Jr. writes in Contexts, a journal of the American Sociological Association. Baby boomers and their parents had much greater access to well-paying jobs with good benefits than do today's twentysomethings. In addition, the oldsters enjoyed more government assistance for higher education and affordable housing.

So what can we do to help kids become adults sooner? Furstenberg and his team recommend expansion of military and alternative national service programs.

http://channels.netscape.com/whatsn...y=3&floc=wn-wt3
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and1grad

11-29-2005, 11:32 PM

I still think basing independence on all of those benchmarks is stupid.

lilyflower

11-29-2005, 11:41 PM

Hey, I'm independent and I'm 25. Guess that says something about shiny girls that smell like cookies, huh? ;)

SmilesSoSweet

11-29-2005, 11:45 PM

I don't see why studies continue to put marriage and children as apart of being "independent". The percentage should be higher (meaning men that can support themselves whether finishing school or not) if marriage and children weren't apart of this study.

I read in some article (and I can no longer find it) that people who get married in their early to mid 20s actually stay married longer? I was like WTF? I have to find that article. I know a few people who were married, divorced (with or without kids) by the age of 25.

WeirdBrake

11-29-2005, 11:46 PM

The true measure of adulthood is reaching these benchmarks: leaving home, finishing school, getting married, having a child, and being financially independent.

This is an interesting perspective. I don't agree with it. But it's an interesting perspective.

Umbra

11-29-2005, 11:46 PM

http://channels.netscape.com/whatsn...y=3&floc=wn-wt3
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Well ... I'm two out of five. Though, I believe having a child and marriage doesn't constitute independence.

old_school_soul

11-29-2005, 11:49 PM

Well ... I'm two out of five. Though, I believe having a child and marriage doesn't constitute independence.

I agree. Marriage/children is the inverse of independence. It's all about depedence.

wordsmith

11-29-2005, 11:50 PM

"The primary reason for a prolonged early adulthood is that it now takes much longer to secure a full-time job that pays enough to support a family,"

Financial independence DOES take, often, longer to achieve now, depending on your field and economic environment where you live.

I know I could in no way support a family right now on my income. My full-time job wouldn't cut it. My parents had three children they were comfortably supporting by the time my mom was my current age, on one income, comparable field to mine, in the same area. The cost of living, even here, has increased...wages haven't, so much, and my fixed expenses are higher than theirs (neither was paying off their education).

But, I'm not sure on this as criteria, anyway. For one thing, it ASSUMES that everyone would be supporting a family at this age, if only they could. Not so. Which then also seems to imply that you're not "adult" until you are supporting a family, which is clearly untrue.

I'd be curious to hear more about how increased particiption in military and national service programs would solve the situation, though, given that I know many military families who struggle, and I was in a national service program, and while the rewards I reaped were many, one of them was NOT enhanced financial freedom.

cheshrcarol

11-30-2005, 12:15 AM

Yeah, when my parents were my age they'd been married 5 years, I was a year old and they owned their own house. I'm independant, but I'm still single, which I think makes a big difference. Dual incomes give you a lot more purchasing power (obviously) especially in terms of buying a house and affording kids. And people these days are getting married later.

wordsmith

11-30-2005, 12:25 AM

True, but my parents didn't have a dual income, and they still owned a house and afforded 3 kids by this age. Just one income. Just like me.

jdt141

11-30-2005, 12:30 AM

I think that criteria list is a load of bull, making the study useless.

I'm an adult.

I've left home
I'm not done with school, maybe I'll NEVER be done.
I have no wife (can't even get a girlfriend :mad: )
I can't even HAVE children (well, my wife could.. but me? nah! :D )
I'm financially independent.

I'm still an adult.

yaddayadda99

11-30-2005, 01:05 AM

Oy vey. That whole article is bs. I know plenty of men in their 50's and 60's (a couple of uncles included) who fit that description but are still not 'adult'...does that make sense?

and1grad

11-30-2005, 01:20 AM

Hey, I'm independent and I'm 25. Guess that says something about shiny girls that smell like cookies, huh? ;)
What? That they're more likely to get knocked up...independently? ;)

lilyflower

11-30-2005, 01:21 AM

What? That they're more likely to get knocked up...independently? ;)

Hey, my gardenia is a dependent

(Or at least that's what I'm telling the IRS ;) )

shimmer728

11-30-2005, 08:25 AM

I agree. Marriage/children is the inverse of independence. It's all about depedence.

I don't agree with this. But I don't think they are benchmarks of independence, either. I consider myself independent and I'm not married and I have no kids.

inuts

11-30-2005, 11:13 AM

wordsmith

11-30-2005, 11:17 AM

I don't feel like we're getting married later...lots of my friends are married. Lots of people on this board are married. Finding somebody you want a lasting commitment with, where it's mutual, is a matter of chance and timing...it's not like you can schedule it in. It's happenstance, IMO, and will happen for some later than others.

Deadend

11-30-2005, 11:20 AM

Bullshit. My job probably pays enough to support a family, and it wasn't that tough to find. Of course it SUCKS, and I'm still working at 1 o clock in the fucking morning, so do I have time to do anything but die alone, no. So it's an either-or thing, unless you are very lucky.

Well if I'm not an adult, I guess I shouldn't have to pay taxes, so where's my fat return?

Haha,

There was a funny caption on the "Don't section" on VICE magazine undernearth this disturbingly drunk guy, talking about how the only guys that get laid less often then those living in their mother's basements playing playstation, are the guys with their own professional careers and own apartments. Because of course, those poor saps don't have any time to go out, so that when they do they go off the deep end.

and1grad

11-30-2005, 11:37 AM

There was a funny caption on the "Don't section" on VICE magazine undernearth this disturbingly drunk guy, talking about how the only guys that get laid less often then those living in their mother's basements playing playstation, are the guys with their own professional careers and own apartments. Because of course, those poor saps don't have any time to go out, so that when they do they go off the deep end.
I think Kanye put it best...
I dont know whats better, gettin laid or gettin paid, I just know when I'm gettin one, the other's gettin away

jrwilheim

11-30-2005, 11:43 AM

I don't really think it's fair to base this analysis of how successful our generation has been at achieving adulthood on having marriage and children. Lots of people in every generation, either through circumstance or choice, never marry and/or never have any children. Does that make them any less adult? I think not. While I see marriage and children as hallmarks of adulthood--obviously these are adult responsibilities--they can't be used as a means of separating adults from adolescents or children.

To me living on your own and achieving financial independence are bigger parts of what it means to be an adult--doing your own laundry, paying your own bills, having to say to yourself and others, "Gee, I'd like to take that vacation to Fiji, but the rent is due". Having to take responsibility for your own well-being, now and in the future.

jrwilheim

11-30-2005, 11:47 AM

Why is it that we're all getting married so much later? Is it because we all feel the world is that much more uncertain? Is everyone that much more worried about getting divorced? Are we worried about making the wrong decision instead of worrying about not making a decision???

Crazy.

I don't understand our generation's approach to marriage, either. It hasn't helped that the media tell us all kinds of lies and half-truths about the possibility of getting divorced. When there are half as many divorces as marriages in any given year, that does not mean that your chances of getting divorced are fifty percent.

Also, I remember there was a study out recently that said that your chances of getting divorced were significantly less if a) you were part of a household that made more than $50,000 a year, meaning you and your spouse TOGETHER make at least that much (a bit less than the median household income in the United States) and b) if you and your spouse completed college. So I don't really think people like us are any more likely to divorce.

I think what's really happened over the past 30-odd years is that the stigma against divorce has broken down in working class settings and that's what's caused our country to have such a high divorce rate.

Bugsey34

11-30-2005, 11:53 AM

To me living on your own and achieving financial independence are bigger parts of what it means to be an adult--doing your own laundry, paying your own bills, having to say to yourself and others, "Gee, I'd like to take that vacation to Fiji, but the rent is due". Having to take responsibility for your own well-being, now and in the future.

Me too. Independence is just that, not being dependent on anyone. I don't agree with OSS that marriage/kids is the opposite of independence though, it's actually having someone dependent on you, which is a totally different thing. Is it more adult to have people depending on you? I guess.

I think what's really happened over the past 30-odd years is that the stigma against divorce has broken down in working class settings and that's what's caused our country to have such a high divorce rate.

I agree with this too. A lot of couples in older generations probably would have divorced had they been part of our generation, but they didn't because it wasn't as socially acceptable/common as it is now.

shimmer728

11-30-2005, 12:20 PM

SmilesSoSweet

11-30-2005, 12:40 PM

So if a teenage guy has a kid with his teenage girlfriend, would that make him an indpendent male adult because he now has this child? It may make him grow up faster because he now has a child, but I really don't think it means he's independent.

I totally agree that financially independence and living on your own are way more important factors than getting married and having kids.

PVD99

11-30-2005, 12:48 PM

I honestly think it is a LOT harder to become independent today as opposed to 20 or 30 years ago. Things are just too costly! A man used to be able to graduate from high school, get a good paying job and buy a house for his girlfriend(soon to be wife) and then start having kids in early 20s. It's a lot harder now.

PVD99

11-30-2005, 01:05 PM

I would also like to add that I agree with the posters who are saying that being independent shouldn't be linked with being married and having kids. What about people who are 35, have great careers, have their own condo...but are single with no kids? Are they not adults yet?

Deadend

11-30-2005, 01:26 PM

I think we've forgot some other key milestones.

Like discovering how annoying high school students are, and then later, realizing how equally annoying undergrads are.

yankeeyosh

11-30-2005, 06:57 PM

wtf...a couple of years ago, they said that the average age for reaching adulthood is 26. So it's gone up??

Anyway, let's see how I measure up:

Leaving home: yes, until two weeks ago. Now it's no
Finishing school: I thought so, but I might have to go back
Getting married: Not even close...
Having a child: Yeah right
Being financially independent: I guess I am kinda, although I'm living at home now...

I'm not independent.

I don't think this age will go down soon, by the way, as the core of Gen 'Y' reaches adulthood, coddling by parents will continue to increase, and independence will decrease....even if the economy is booming.

ebruening

11-30-2005, 07:11 PM

I don't think this age will go down soon, by the way, as the core of Gen 'Y' reaches adulthood, coddling by parents will continue to increase...

Oh, yankee...you and I could have a nice windy chat about Gen Y's "parent coddling..." I sound like an old fart when I say, "these damn kids don't know how to WORK (in school, mind you.)"

yankeeyosh

11-30-2005, 07:35 PM

Oh, yankee...you and I could have a nice windy chat about Gen Y's "parent coddling..." I sound like an old fart when I say, "these damn kids don't know how to WORK (in school, mind you.)"

Yeah, and let me guess...their parents are doing all their homework and are storming into the classroom when their kid gets a bad grade.

You might as well just give everyone 'A's...just to satisfy their parents...

The new grading scale for the 21st century:

A++ = Excellent
A+ = Good
A = (gasp) Average
A- = Needs improvement
B+ = You're lazy, and you can't do shit, but we will try not to let your GPA fall too much...

Tiean

12-01-2005, 03:23 AM

What about the pope? He's not independent? He's not an adult? Funny way of looking at it, I'd say.

SmilesSoSweet

12-01-2005, 09:46 AM

What about the pope? He's not independent? He's not an adult? Funny way of looking at it, I'd say.

Yeah, no kidding. I have a cousin that's a priest and he's 29. I'd say he's very independent. But according to this study he'll never be.

XXdemerXX

12-01-2005, 01:55 PM

leaving my parents house at the age of 16 & payin for my own $500 dollar apartment is true independence. if marriage was so independent then how come my wife depends on me so much to pay for our house & bills? being married & havin kids is life. it has nuthin to do with being independent.

Dreamchasa

12-01-2005, 02:01 PM

Interesting article. Not sure you can apply it to this generation at all. I dont even really have a desire to get married so I guess I"ll never be an adult.

I do have a son. What is FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT mean exactly? I mean I can pretty much pay all my own bills yet I'm broke. So if something serious happen that required 5 figured I'd be up S creek.

Anyone got a BETTER set of criteria????

The Stranger

12-01-2005, 02:13 PM

According to that link, since I don't plan on getting married or having children, I'll never be an adult. Wow. People have been searching for eternal youth for thousands of years, and I was the one that found it! Up yours, Ponce de Leon!

I may have to go to GMODC's stomping ground, as it's apparently easier to find a job, there. Almost everyone I know (young or old) is either stuck in a bad job or unable to find one at all. Maybe that alleged good economy just hasn't made it out to my neck of the woods, yet.

I don't know the specifics of divorce statistics, but half of all marriages do end in divorce, no? Even if it's a little less than that, it still seems far too risky, to me. "Oh, our parachutes only fail 35% or 40% of the time, not 50%, it's perfectly safe to go skydiving with 'em!" That said, I've never seen any benefits in marriage, anyway, so the whole thing seems unnecessary and irrelevant, to me.

inuts

12-01-2005, 05:17 PM

I don't understand our generation's approach to marriage, either. It hasn't helped that the media tell us all kinds of lies and half-truths about the possibility of getting divorced. When there are half as many divorces as marriages in any given year, that does not mean that your chances of getting divorced are fifty percent.

Also, I remember there was a study out recently that said that your chances of getting divorced were significantly less if a) you were part of a household that made more than $50,000 a year, meaning you and your spouse TOGETHER make at least that much (a bit less than the median household income in the United States) and b) if you and your spouse completed college. So I don't really think people like us are any more likely to divorce.

I think what's really happened over the past 30-odd years is that the stigma against divorce has broken down in working class settings and that's what's caused our country to have such a high divorce rate.

Yeah, those things tend to drop the divorce rate down by quite a bit. And the rate has been lowering by roughly a percentage point a year since 1991. Some think we're between 42 and 38% now.

Although words has a good point--you can't just pencil marriage in. And it's too bad, too. I'm going to have next Friday off from work, and so far I've got nothing scheduled. :razz:

red

12-01-2005, 05:35 PM

i consider a person to be independent when they are financially independent and self-supporting. a lot of people cohabitate and don't marry for various reasons (they aren't religious, they are unable to marry under the law, etc) and many people choose not to have children. cohabitation is also much more socially accepted now than it was 20-30 years ago.