Should I even bother with grad school?

[capella]

I've been mulling this over lately and I guess this is a question more for the ladies out there.

So I'm getting ready to apply to a grad program in education, solely to make more money because I'm not getting promoted or anything as a teacher with a grad degree. I'll get paid anywhere from 2500 more annually in my current county to 5000 more in the county where my hubby works (but keep in mind he makes about 2K less than me at every "step" on the pay scale in that county so it's like 3K more annually). It will take me until around 2008 (Dec) or 2009 (May) to graduate because there's no way I can take off time to go to school full time and I can't swing more than one class a semester during my work school year. I can make up some time in the summers though. I will be 28 in 2009. That's about when I feel like I want to get a kid out of me for sure. I don't want to be 30+ and try to do the baby thing. I'm tired now and I'm not yet 25 (12 more days!!). And if we have two then it's like 28 and 30 respectively I guess.

(I'masickoplannerholicIknowthatcanwejustmoveonfrom thatpleaseandthankyou)

With our debt reduction plan we're guestimating that I could probably stay home until the second bundle of trouble is in diapers at least if we have a kid at 28. I always said I didn't want to stay home, but at my salary and the cost of daycare I'm going to be paying someone else 1/2 my salary to raise my kid so I can have the pleasure of going to work to raise other people's kids. And as a teacher, I'm really not going to lose any professional standing by staying home a year or two. Plus, quite frankly it's hard enough to take care of myself, a husband (who is pretty self-sufficient) a house and the pets and hold down my job. I am quite alarmed at the idea of paying someone most of my check so I can be MORE stressed out.
So for the dilemma. By the time I get the grad degree done.... I'll be ready to pop out a kid and stay home. So then what good will the degree do me then? I guess it'd be out of the way so that when I do go back to work I'll get the extra pay. But while I'm not working it's most likely more school loans to pay and for what?
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[RedAces]

i'm not a chick but if i were u i would just go ahead and get the degree now......that way when u have a kid u wont have to worry about getting it later...on the other hand u could just party these next three years away because u probably wont be doing much of it after the kid comes in

[heatherf]

Do you cats have a house yet Amy?

As for the baby thing.....I'd wait to say that you wouldn't want to stay home with the baby....BELIEVE ME. I mean, some people totally want to go back to work- others DO NOT. And you don't have any way of knowing ahead of time.

As for timing, and if you want two- do it asap cause you want them before you are 30.

Is the 3k a year really going to be a huge difference in finances for you? IMO it just doesn't seem like a ton, and when divided by the twelve months and then taxed, what's that an extra $200 a month? Can't you just teach summer school or something to make up for that? Or do some tutoring on the side?

[capella]

Yeah we have a 3 bedroom house. There is plenty of room for the babes. I know it's not a lot of monetary increase but it's about all I can do to increase my salary, short of the state actually making education funding a priority and yadda yadda. I won't get promoted as a teacher. I'll get more "experience." A grad degree is the only salary booster. I was looking into doing teacher training for the district (and an office type job thing) for the future but they don't make any more than me. I just feel stuck at a crappy salary and as the years go by my profession is left in the dust behind all other professions (as far as earning potential). So a higher degree is the only boost I'll get. I'm sort of torn. I want to have kids before I'm old, but I hate that I won't really have the money to do it "right." I definitely want them back to back (that is if it's a them and not an it type deal). It's so confusing. Blah!!! There isn't any summer school around here and yeah I can tutor but it's not a heap of extra money and I'd rather that be whole family time (that's the best thing about us both being teachers, we have so much time together during breaks, and believe me the breaks are nice [but also well deserved]).

[pisces2473]

Amy, I say to cram it all in now and get it out of the way. No one can take your education away from you. So what if you get your MA/MS/MEd and find out you're PG right after? You'll have the degre already behind you and not something you have to worry about til later. And if you stay home after you have kids, big effing deal. :razz: You'll figure it all out what it happens. You and your husband are both smart and educated--whatever you decide, you guys will make it work, or you'll figure out another way. It'll be OKAY. :D

ETA: and besides, what if you guys decide that YOU will work and S will stay home? That way, you've got the advanced degree.

[yankeeyosh]

Well, I definitely understand the dillemma. It's hard enough having a full time job (particularly as a teacher)...it would be ridiculously insane being a teacher AND going to grad school...I just find it amazing how some of you guys can hold down full time jobs and take two grad classes at the same time.

That said, since you have the advantage of having summers off, could you possibly just go to school full time during the summer, and concentrate on your job during the school year? It may take a bit extra time...but probably not too much time, and your life will be a little bit less crazy that way. I understand you want kids at some point in the next few years, so if you're not done, perhaps you could just finish up your degree by taking classes part time, so you'll be with your kid for most of the time? I don't know your situation well, but that's just my suggestion...

[capella]

ETA: and besides, what if you guys decide that YOU will work and S will stay home? That way, you've got the advanced degree.
LOL! I just told him today that if I had to go through the physical shit and get the kid out of me then DAMMIT I'm the one who's staying home and drinking my coffee at a leisurely pace... even if that leisurely pace includes a shirt with spit up and a crying baby. :p When he pops one out, he can stay home!! It's sooo funny though we used to talk about it and I would have rathered he stay home back then. I think I felt a LOT different about staying home when I was in a "more professional" job like journalism {pffft} when I'd probably take a hit professionally for staying home. In teaching, it's almost like a badge of honor to stay home and then come back to teaching later.

[wordsmith]

Is there any sort of expectation by your school district that you'll obtain a Master's, or is it thoroughly optional? I know in the district I report on, there's a great deal of pressure to do so, or at least be working toward it. They'd prefer that every teacher in the district be master's degreed.

Hmmm, you guys are kind of freaking me out. I fully intend to have children, but it wouldn't even be possible, timeframe-wise, for me to have ONE by the time I'm thirty, unless I were to meet the daddy-o like, yesterday.

[pisces2473]

Jess, you could get PG today and have a baby by September/October...and that's before you're thirty ;)

I can't see myself having one before I'm thirty...so I hope I don't freak you out, Jess.

[capella]

Is there any sort of expectation by your school district that you'll obtain a Master's, or is it thoroughly optional? I know in the district I report on, there's a great deal of pressure to do so, or at least be working toward it. They'd prefer that every teacher in the district be master's degreed.

Hmmm, you guys are kind of freaking me out. I fully intend to have children, but it wouldn't even be possible, timeframe-wise, for me to have ONE by the time I'm thirty, unless I were to meet the daddy-o like, yesterday.
HA! Florida just wants a warm body in the classroom. Seriously. There's zippo pressure from MY county to get a master's and the state certainly isn't pushing for it. This is the same state in which I'm "highly qualified" to teach K-8 math when I absolutely suck at math. Look at my GRE math score!! 460!! What the crap is that?? They start you at 500!! No, the master's pressure is completely from within and my desire to make more $$. And also that I do want to achieve that level of education. I'd much rather study liberal studies (thinky type things) or literature or something than education but it won't get me anywhere really. I could get National Board certified but I don't think it's really that big of a monetary reward. It's more of a prestige thing. I wouldn't mind doing that.

[wordsmith]

Hah, Jen, I'll get right on that!

[wordsmith]

And also that I do want to achieve that level of education. I'd much rather study liberal studies (thinky type things) or literature or something than education but it won't get me anywhere really. I could get National Board certified but I don't think it's really that big of a monetary reward. It's more of a prestige thing. I wouldn't mind doing that.

Yeah, I hear you on that. I really didn't enjoy my ed coursework at all, outside of one class, Social Foundations of Education, which was really more of a sociology course. Mostly, I was just bitter that they were hoarding time I could have been taking more toward my English degree.

One of my friends who teaches second grade here just got National Board certified; she's been teaching probably about 15 years or so. It was pretty tough, I guess. Her husband tried for it at the same time and didn't cut it.

[yankeeyosh]

HA! Florida just wants a warm body in the classroom. Seriously. There's zippo pressure from MY county to get a master's and the state certainly isn't pushing for it.

New York City is the same way...they've been hiring people from all fields left and right because there's such a shortage. However, I think NYS requires a master's degree for certification, so new teachers have to take courses to get the degree.

If I had better oral skills, I would definitely consider becoming a teacher...I always found it to be a very noble (albeit not that well paying) profession...and I think I would enjoy it.

[pisces2473]

If I had better oral skills, I would definitely consider becoming a teacher...
And you'd be in jail shortly thereafter...

[yankeeyosh]

And you'd be in jail shortly thereafter...

Hmmm...I think I should have phrased what I said a bit differently...

[capella]

And you'd be in jail shortly thereafter...
Man, that's so not funny. I fussed at S earlier for telling one of his female students who was lagging behind to "Ketchup, baby tomato" (it's a Pulp Fiction related joke, but I didn't think the kid would get it). I was worried that "baby" at a girl would cause an uproar but he knew the kid well enough to know that she would take it as a joke and smart enough to actually get the joke and not think he was hitting on her or something. But I fussed anyway and said he'd better watch it. Kids are very litigious these days and accusatory about stretched truths and flat out lies. Isn't teaching FUN!! LOL. :( OK I need to go to sleep now.

[capella]

Yeah, I hear you on that. I really didn't enjoy my ed coursework at all, outside of one class, Social Foundations of Education, which was really more of a sociology course. Mostly, I was just bitter that they were hoarding time I could have been taking more toward my English degree.

One of my friends who teaches second grade here just got National Board certified; she's been teaching probably about 15 years or so. It was pretty tough, I guess. Her husband tried for it at the same time and didn't cut it.
The program is a MEd in Curriculum and Instruction with a focus on Muliticultural education. Inequalities and poverty and achievement gaps. The things I tend to get really passionate about with my job (and with my population of kids). I don't think I'd hate the program but I know I'd much rather read and discuss Aristotle or Chaucer or something any day.

[yankeeyosh]

The program is a MEd in Curriculum and Instruction with a focus on Mulitcultural education. Inequalities and poverty and achievement gaps. The things I tend to get really passionate about with my job (and with my population of kids). I don't think I'd hate the program but I know I'd much rather read and discuss Aristotle or Chaucer or something any day.

Sounds interesting...would there be educational statistics courses you would need to take?

[wordsmith]

Yup, that's the same stuff I care about. Is it any wonder that I took a job with a multicultural youth leadership project rather than teach when I finished college?

[winneythepooh7]

If having kids now is something that really matters for you, than go for it. Hey, you can still do school too, as there were plenty of people in my grad school who were also pregnant. Don't people get a big tax break when they have kids? Because in that case, that extra $5000 per year or whatever you said it was could make a difference. I also make that more a year with my new job and see a difference in my check. Even $200.00 is something when you have mouths to feed. I am not in education, however, from what I have heard it is very important to have your Master's in this field. You never know what the future will bring in your state regarding education and you don't want to be one of those given the shaft because you don't have your degree. Just a thought............

[ce607]

I would recommend also that if you really do want to get the master's, you just get through it now, the best you can. I'm a New York Stater, so I had to get it, and I blitzed it in my first two years of teaching, taking between 6 and 15 credits a semester. You might be able to handle more each semester than you think, though those two years royally sucked.
How many credits would the program be?
I understand also what you said about timing. Now that I've had my degree since August, am taking off in four months for maternity leave for at least a year, and am still unsure about my future in teaching, I've also had thoughts about whether it's really worth for me to be in debt because of a degree I may not use much. But it's a master's degree, and that will always be helpful to you. No matter what it's in and what field you're looking in, you will stand out more because of having the advanced degree ... at least, that's what a lot of people have told me.

[labrat2111]

I'd say if you want to do it go for it now so it is done and out of the way. I would imagine anything like that would get so much harder to do once you have kids. I actually had a friend who I went to high school and college with and she wanted to get married and have a large family but she decided to get her Masters before doing so. Mostly I think it is because PA required her to take so many credits after college to keep your certification and she figured she might as well get her Masters so she could get a pay raise (she taught high school spanish).

She ended up taking a class a semester and in the summer she would take 2 accelerated classes (16 weeks crammed into 5 weeks) which killed her for those 5 weeks but afterwards she had part of her summer left over and 2 less classes to take. I think she finished in 2 or 2.5 years although she did start when she was 23. Ironically she got married to another teacher and had a kid in 2004 when she was 28 and then moved down to Florida summer 2004. I'm not sure what she's up to because I've kind of lost track of her and she's a busy sort of person.

[winneythepooh7]

I would recommend also that if you really do want to get the master's, you just get through it now, the best you can. I'm a New York Stater, so I had to get it, and I blitzed it in my first two years of teaching, taking between 6 and 15 credits a semester. You might be able to handle more each semester than you think, though those two years royally sucked.
How many credits would the program be?
I understand also what you said about timing. Now that I've had my degree since August, am taking off in four months for maternity leave for at least a year, and am still unsure about my future in teaching, I've also had thoughts about whether it's really worth for me to be in debt because of a degree I may not use much. But it's a master's degree, and that will always be helpful to you. No matter what it's in and what field you're looking in, you will stand out more because of having the advanced degree ... at least, that's what a lot of people have told me.


Agreed. There may also be other fields you can go into after your maternity leave that this degree will be useful for. I also think that you should just go with things, because you never know what the future may bring. We can plan and plan and plan, but you never know if things may work out differently than what you foresee...........

[yankeeyosh]

I would recommend also that if you really do want to get the master's, you just get through it now, the best you can. I'm a New York Stater, so I had to get it, and I blitzed it in my first two years of teaching, taking between 6 and 15 credits a semester. You might be able to handle more each semester than you think, though those two years royally sucked.
How many credits would the program be?

Wow...that's amazing...I hope you didn't take more than six credits during the school year. I just don't know how starting teachers do it, since they have to work 55-60 hours a week teaching. Add another 30 hours of grad school? I know I'd get an ulcer.

[wordsmith]

Wow...that's amazing...I hope you didn't take more than six credits during the school year. I just don't know how starting teachers do it, since they have to work 55-60 hours a week teaching. Add another 30 hours of grad school? I know I'd get an ulcer.

One thing they do here to make it easier for teachers is offer large group masters classes, onsite, evenings, through university extension programs.

[heatherf]

Capella- what about doing a grad program to become a vice principal or principal? They make really good money, don't they?

If you wanna go back to school- I say get PG so that the baby is born right when you are done, and you aren't pressured to go back to work by a schedule.

[and1grad]

Just to echo what h-town said earlier, make sure the pay increase would be worth it. I'd hate for you to just wind up with a lot of time and effort built on attaining more debt and stress. ONLY pursue a grad degree if there is a distinct advantage to having it. IMO, it doesnt really sound like it'll be worth the effort.

[lilyflower]

Just to echo what h-town said earlier, make sure the pay increase would be worth it. I'd hate for you to just wind up with a lot of time and effort built on attaining more debt and stress. ONLY pursue a grad degree if there is a distinct advantage to having it. IMO, it doesnt really sound like it'll be worth the effort.

And1 has a really good point here. If you're only going to make like $3K more a year and you take on say another $30K in student loan debt, it doesn't seem worth it financially - even if you don't take off to have kids.

[Dreamchasa]

I think you need to do a few things.

First figure out your FINANCIAL picture first and foremost. Are you trying to get AHEAD of your mortgage and by that I mean actually eating into the principal not just paying a lot of interest? Payment and a half when you can or even double. I know it sounds crazy but its something to think about especially if you don't have a low interest rate.

Also it sounds like ya'll might need to look for some alternative income. Both of my parents were teachers and also did some investing with what money they could spare.

If you're thinking about going back to school you can borrow the money through the house for your living expenses and possibly go full-time. Equity lines if you have good credit though research that carefully with the rising rates.

GO FOR YOUR EDUCATION!!!! We need a smarter nation. BEST OF LUCK!

[yankeeyosh]

Yeah, one more thing...DON'T go to grad school because it's "hip" and because it's the "in thing". Do it only if you REALLY want to. It is absolutely nothing like undergrad...essentially even two courses requires more work than a full load of undergrad courses.

[capella]

Wow there's a lot to respond to. Man I go to bed and go to work and look at all of this. :)

First Heather. I DO NOT want to be a principal in any way, shape or form. There is SOOOO much pressure and your hands are tied half the time from making any decisions. Yeah, they make good money, but Good Grief! No way, Jose.

Second Dreamchasa, We have a debt reduction plan. We're working on one car right now and one last credit card. We're working on the other car next. We will be refinancing our house next January before the ARM is up and our house is worth around 190K right now. We owe 137500 as of now. We have a second mortgage (the 20%) that is not too much more than our biggest car loan and I'd like to whiddle that one down, but I doubt it would be done in 3 years time. We will probably refi the whole thing next year and see what the payments are then. We don't have enough equity to take out through a loan and I don't want to increase my mortgage because then I'll never be able to stay at home. We need the lowest payment possible. Believe me, we've done extensive planning and analyzing on our financial future.

Third Yankee and Susan, The program is 33 or 36 credit hours or something. It'll probably be about 20K to get the degree. It's a public university. I may qualify for some grants or something because I'm a teacher. I will try to pay for some classes in cash (like the one I'll take during my work year). I know it's not a great increase in income but it's all I'll get. I won't ever make tons of money doing this job. My salary won't grow much each year, the pay steps are like 100 bucks a month or so. $200 a month extra with the degree might not seem like oodles of money but when you throw kids in the picture it's more than a relief.

I doubt Florida is going to be pushing ANY teachers to have master's degrees any time soon. There is such a shortage and the state is growing by leaps and bounds. They have a hard enough time getting teachers. They aren't trying to weed anyone out just yet.

If I want to stay home I won't be having kids now anyway because we CAN'T afford it right now. We use both salaries to pay bills. We could swing it if I worked but like I said before, it's a lot of stress just the way things are now. I'd like to time the babe to come in time for summer, but the last experience has shown me that doesn't always work to your advantage. If I had a kid during the school year, I get my sick days and personal time and that's it. I don't get any other time off that's paid. And like I said we cannot swing stuff on one salary no matter how you slice it.

Thanks for all the input. I'm still so confused about what to do though. Ugh. I'll figure it out I guess.

[pisces2473]

Amy, what about moving to a state that pays better? CT pays VERY well. :twisted: I'm sure that's not very feasible for you guys, so nevermind...

Are you super stressed out? Sounds like you might want to work on that too...not trying to be condescending, only speaking as someone who's been there.

[capella]

Amy, what about moving to a state that pays better? CT pays VERY well. :twisted: I'm sure that's not very feasible for you guys, so nevermind...

Are you super stressed out? Sounds like you might want to work on that too...not trying to be condescending, only speaking as someone who's been there.
LOL! I have considered moving to a state that pays better actually (like Texas). But the problem with that is that the cost of living also goes up where the pay goes up dramatically. We bought a house here when we COULD NOT have done that anywhere else in the country. Hell, I can't even afford to buy MY house right now with what it's worth. 200+K for a home is TOO much on our salaries. I make just under 34K a year. S makes 32K a year. You do the math. We're comfortable here. At least for now with just the two of us.

And yes, I do stress too much. Mainly because I don't leave my work AT WORK. I take things home to grade or to plan. I come in an hour early and stay an hour late. On any given day I work 9 hours straight (and I do mean STRAIGHT), drive about 90 minutes combined and still have to take care of myself and my life (such as make dinner, clean up, TALK TO GROWN UP HUMAN BEINGS, read things I like, see friends, do laundry, talk to family, etc, etc, etc). Then I usually work some on the weekend (that's usually grading shit, god I hate grading papers). And then there is the emotional and mental connection that I need to CUT when I leave campus. It follows me home in my head. I don't think that's all bad; it means I care and I'm passionate. But I know that I need to make more ME time and I'm working on it. I've been leaving it all there since we started back. I'm using my cheesy soundscape cds. I'm eating better and trying to exercise more. It's still very difficult to DO it all and still have a person left inside of me at the end of the day (you know not a zombie). ;)

[lilyflower]

Hmm but is the $200 a month pay raise worth it if you accrue $10K in student loan debt? It sort of seems like it'd be a wash to me - but if you can get enough stuff to cover it and make it feasible without accruing a ridiculous amount of debt it might be worth it. Good luck!

[yankeeyosh]

All I can say is that if you feel very stressed at your current job, taking more coursework, especially at the graduate level, will be that much worse. I consider one grad class to be equivalent to two undergrad classes...at least. So if you're working 40 hours a week (and if you're a teacher, I'm sure you're working a lot more), and you're taking six credits, you're essentially working full time AND going to school full time (even though nine credits is technically full time)...similar to two full time jobs. I'd probably go to grad school if I were in your shoes simply because I'm a type of person who goes with the flow and does what's "hip"...and probably due to outside pressures as well. But that's really the wrong way to go. I would ONLY go if it will clearly benefit you in the long run. If there's no need to go, DON'T. It's a tremendous struggle, and you'll have to part with an incredible amount of time which you may not have already. Yeah, it may be nice to have the additional degree, and may give you the "prestige", but you're gonna be killing yourself for multiple years...years you should be enjoying life.

Until about a week ago, I thought it would be easier to go to grad school part time and work full time. Not anymore. I think it's a HELL of a lot more stressful to work full time and take classes part time...particularly if you're taking more than one at a time. I said it once before, and I'll say it again...I give kudos to those taking multiple classes while holding a full time job. I seriously have no clue how you manage, but I give you props.

[XJMP]

All I can say is that if you feel very stressed at your current job, taking more coursework, especially at the graduate level, will be that much worse. I consider one grad class to be equivalent to two undergrad classes...at least. So if you're working 40 hours a week (and if you're a teacher, I'm sure you're working a lot more), and you're taking six credits, you're essentially working full time AND going to school full time (even though nine credits is technically full time)...similar to two full time jobs. I'd probably go to grad school if I were in your shoes simply because I'm a type of person who goes with the flow and does what's "hip"...and probably due to outside pressures as well. But that's really the wrong way to go. I would ONLY go if it will clearly benefit you in the long run. If there's no need to go, DON'T. It's a tremendous struggle, and you'll have to part with an incredible amount of time which you may not have already. Yeah, it may be nice to have the additional degree, and may give you the "prestige", but you're gonna be killing yourself for multiple years...years you should be enjoying life.

I agree with Yankeeyosh's statement in the last post.

Capella, your belief in education is certainly commendable. And, I wish to admit that I don't have a bachelor's degree, so my criticism of a trip to graduate school may sound like "sour-grapes". Still, in the next few years you are planning on staying home to raise kids. You are not planning a decades long teaching career right now. I don't see the need the get a master's degree.

Good luck.

XJMP

[capella]

Well, actually I'm not staying home to raise kids forever. 2-3 years depending on whether it's one or two kids. I'm a little offended at the "oh you're just going to have babies so why do you need more education" undertones in that statement to be honest. I don't see where I said I'm not planning a decades long career.

A master's degree will pay for itself over the course of my career. And I reconfigured the numbers a bit (looking up the cost of the classes and other stuff). It's about 10 grand or so. Maybe a bit less if I go to this program because it's a public university.

Anyhow, I think I've figured out a good plan (thanks to a lovely coworker). I'll start the degree when we have a kid so that I can do grad school without having to work (especially in the summer since S will be home) and then by the time I'm ready to go back to work, I'll have my degree done. Problem solved. I'll have to do work and school or baby and work or baby and school anyway so why not do the baby thing and take some courses then. :) ;)

[yankeeyosh]

Well, actually I'm not staying home to raise kids forever. 2-3 years depending on whether it's one or two kids. I'm a little offended at the "oh you're just going to have babies so why do you need more education" undertones in that statement to be honest. I don't see where I said I'm not planning a decades long career.

A master's degree will pay for itself over the course of my career. And I reconfigured the numbers a bit (looking up the cost of the classes and other stuff). It's about 10 grand or so. Maybe a bit less if I go to this program because it's a public university.

Anyhow, I think I've figured out a good plan (thanks to a lovely coworker). I'll start the degree when we have a kid so that I can do grad school without having to work (especially in the summer since S will be home) and then by the time I'm ready to go back to work, I'll have my degree done. Problem solved. I'll have to do work and school or baby and work or baby and school anyway so why not do the baby thing and take some courses then. :) ;)

There ya go! Sounds like a great plan :)

[XJMP]

Well, actually I'm not staying home to raise kids forever. 2-3 years depending on whether it's one or two kids. I'm a little offended at the "oh you're just going to have babies so why do you need more education" undertones in that statement to be honest. I don't see where I said I'm not planning a decades long career.

A master's degree will pay for itself over the course of my career. And I reconfigured the numbers a bit (looking up the cost of the classes and other stuff). It's about 10 grand or so. Maybe a bit less if I go to this program because it's a public university.

Anyhow, I think I've figured out a good plan (thanks to a lovely coworker). I'll start the degree when we have a kid so that I can do grad school without having to work (especially in the summer since S will be home) and then by the time I'm ready to go back to work, I'll have my degree done. Problem solved. I'll have to do work and school or baby and work or baby and school anyway so why not do the baby thing and take some courses then. :) ;)

Capella, I apologize for any offense I you might have taken at my suggestion that you don't pursue a master's degree. Please accept my apologies. If you really do want the education then go for it.

There is nothing dishonorable about staying home to raise kids. My sister, who is a lawyer, is staying home right now for that purpose. I wish she could stay home until her daughter and soon-to-be-born son are grown. (She can't; my brother-in-law's job is in the "fulfilling, not lucrative" category.)

XJMP

[wordsmith]

And yes, I do stress too much. Mainly because I don't leave my work AT WORK. I take things home to grade or to plan. I come in an hour early and stay an hour late. On any given day I work 9 hours straight

This was among my largest issue with being a teacher, actually (although, I moved on into two other careers where I STILL don't leave my work at work, STILL come in early and stay late, and STILL work through the weekends). It burns you out.

But, I found, especially with teaching language arts, there isn't much of a way around it, because grading writing assignments is soooo time-consuming. It's not like just whipping down something with an answer key, and it's not like you can have kids self-grade essays and essay tests. Language arts curricuum, I thought, was extremely time-consuming both to design and prep for, and the student's work extremely time-consuming to assess properly (especially for me, as I liked to write indiviudalized assessments for each student with each paper, because that helps them mos to improve). I do know what you mean. It is practically IMPOSSIBLE to make time for much else.

[capella]

This was among my largest issue with being a teacher, actually (although, I moved on into two other careers where I STILL don't leave my work at work, STILL come in early and stay late, and STILL work through the weekends). It burns you out.

But, I found, especially with teaching language arts, there isn't much of a way around it, because grading writing assignments is soooo time-consuming. It's not like just whipping down something with an answer key, and it's not like you can have kids self-grade essays and essay tests. Language arts curricuum, I thought, was extremely time-consuming both to design and prep for, and the student's work extremely time-consuming to assess properly (especially for me, as I liked to write indiviudalized assessments for each student with each paper, because that helps them mos to improve). I do know what you mean. It is practically IMPOSSIBLE to make time for much else.
Yes, I do get burned out. It's one of my pet peeves about the "you get so much time off you have nothing to complain about" sentiment. It's such a life eating career that I need to have time off. I wouldn't teach well if I didn't have breaks. Language arts is probably THE most time consuming curriculum to teach and grade. The essays take FOREVER to grade. And they're never good. I did come up with a system I'm trying out. I'm going to scan the essays for writing weaknesses and give them a slip of paper with a sort of "prescription" (maybe even make it look like a Dr. prescription note or something cutesy) and have a work on your writing RX day where they can do little writing activities designed to help them with the skills they aren't good at. Like if they're bad at coming up with ideas, they get an assignment for that skill, if it's voice they suck at, one to help develop voice, if they aren't organizing the essay well they can get an organizing activity. I'm hoping this will cut down on the overwhelming feeling I get from essay grading and not knowing how to start with them. 7th graders aren't writing Noble prize books ya know? :P

[wordsmith]

{{hugs}} I do know EXACTLY what you mean. And I think that sounds like a good approach.

You almost need a team to effectively assess student writing and do anything to truly help them improve. It's a monumental undertaking.

[pisces2473]

Amy, that sounds like an awesome plan...plus if the grad classes are at night, you can go to school and leave the kids with S. So no worries about child care. I don't know why any of us didn't think of that idea before, lol. I hope this all pans out for you!!!!!

[heatherf]

Amy- I've heard that it's really the first couple years of teaching that are the worst...kinda getting everything down, coming up with course work, etc. And then it does get easier. Is this true? And I've always thought that being a teacher is a GREAT job to have when you have children because you will have the holidays and summers off and all in all you will have more time with them.

[capella]

Amy- I've heard that it's really the first couple years of teaching that are the worst...kinda getting everything down, coming up with course work, etc. And then it does get easier. Is this true? And I've always thought that being a teacher is a GREAT job to have when you have children because you will have the holidays and summers off and all in all you will have more time with them.
Yes, I absolutely think this is true as far as getting the wheels oiled and having your systems in motion. Teaching is like running a little company. I'm the CEO of my classroom and it's up to me to get all the little parts set up and have everyone working efficiently. It is so very intricate and you have to have the inner workings seamless and invisible for the class to run smoothly. I don't think most people realize all the work that has to go into having a class. I know that when I was a kid, or even in college, I had no idea all the stuff my teachers had to do just so I could show up. It's quite amazing. If you have chaos in your class, you will be so very tired and the kids will rule the roost (and probably not learn much of anything). It takes a lot just to get things going smoothly. And nobody tells you how to do this at all. I mean you get suggestions but what works really is up to you.

But the upkeep is still the same. Grading still takes just as long. And it's still an exhausting job. My coworker, the other 7th grade language arts teacher, has been doing this 7 years and she still gets burned out too. My subject is just a very time consuming, subjective kind of subject. It's not like math where I can figure out where in the problem they went wrong. Writing is so subjective. Analyzing stories isn't cut and dry. Grammar is not exciting to learn. And most kids come in thinking writing is horrible and reading is boring. Language arts is no easy curriculum. There is such a wide variety of things to teach and there really is no set path to take.


I know this year has been MUCH, MUCH easier than last year. I know already what I'm going to teach and what didn't work very well. I can tell you what we'll study all year now, when last year I couldn't tell you 2 weeks out what we'd be doing. I've still created new assignments this year though. I didn't think I would because it takes soooo much time. But I did an entire unit on mythology this year when last year I barely touched it. I love creating lessons.

The family time thing is the BEST part of my job. I can spend time with my husband now and when we have kids we'll have lots of good, quality time. That is the biggest reason we both want to stay in teaching. I value my family and I love the fact I'll have the same schedule as my kids.