why do MEN and WOMEND see things so different?

[Dreamchasa]

This is basically a spinoff of a personal topic that I have on here. The responses I've gotten from the ladies and the responses from the fellas and my own thought process are COMPLETELY different....

can anyone speak to why that might be?

[wordsmith]

If anybody actually knew, we wouldn't have an entire cottage industry built around "Men are From Mars..." type self-help, pop psychology books theorizing on the reasons why.

Some say it's wired into the genes...others, that it's conditioned. Whatever the case, it's always seemd to me that most of the most marked gender differences are centered around how emotions are expressed and handled, whether that's hardwired, learned, environmental, or a combination.

[Dreamchasa]

This is true. Whoever could figure out this would be the world's richest person.

I only noticed it more b/c of DIFFERENT the opinions of you and the other ladies were from me and and1.

[wordsmith]

Hee, well, and1 and I having major differences of opinion on things (yet often still arriving at similar conclusions in the end, curiously) is something you can count on with NEARLY as much certainty as the rising of the tides. I'm yin to his yang. ;) :p

[lorion11]

I think what is important to bridge the gap, is that women & men start to understand each other. And to never ever utter the phrase "you're being a girl" or "you're such a guy". I think there is definitely a differenece and I think just understanding and accepting the difference would be a productive step.

[Cole]

I don't think it's a man/woman thing. I think EVERYONE sees things from very different perspectives.

[stonemonkey]

True, but then there's also a general stereotype that men are more pragmatic but can't multi-task and women are more perceptive but also more emotional. I think biology plays a significant role.

[stonemonkey]

Agreed, but I only seem to have communcation problems with guys that I date, not with my friends.

In that case, it's also because you're dating them, whereas you're not dating your friends.

[ledzeppelinfan1]

cause boys have a penis and girls have a vagina. :cool:

[pisces2473]

I don't think it's a man/woman thing. I think EVERYONE sees things from very different perspectives.
Yeah, no one is the same...and no one has the exact same life or experiences or whatever.

[pisces2473]

cause boys have a penis and girls have a vagina. :cool:
OK scary boy from Kindergarten Cop. :p

[ledzeppelinfan1]

OK scary boy from Kindergarten Cop. :p

Good catch. ;)

[J-girl]

OK scary boy from Kindergarten Cop. :p

LOL ................

[Deadend]

I don't think it's a man/woman thing. I think EVERYONE sees things from very different perspectives.

That's what I think too. If men and women see differant things differant ways it's simply because they're put in differant positions through culture, or at most by sexual goals.

It's the same kind of question as "why do white and black people see things so differantly?", and can be answered almost entirely by environmental conditioning. Walk a mile in the other's shoes and all of a sudden you see things their way. No gender re-assignment surgery required.

And I think this cottage industry, as well as these threads themselves become self-fullfilling proficies. By highlighting differances and dwelling on them we loose track of our similarities.

So there you go: no it's not hard to figure out, and no the answer won't make you rich because it's not the answer people want to hear (ie, the answer people are willing to buy). No we're not that differant at all, we all see things how anyone would given the same station in life.

[bridgetjones]

Hmm... Lorion I seem to have more communication problems with my female friends than my male friends. Then again ppl have joked about my brain being more stereotypically male in several respects. As for the men I date there is more potential for miscommunications but still strangely enough there is still less misunderstandings than with female pals. Then again there is enough differences within the sexes about certain characteristics to make blanket assumptions about all men and women.

Yeah I'd say Men and Women are just freaking different. There are physical differences that make our perceptions of the world different. THere are brain differences that make our interpretations different. THere are differences in how we are treated and the roles we play in society. The list goes on and on.

[Deadend]

Nah... you're as differant as you want to be. It's within everybody's ability to see someone elses point of view. But if we draw a line in the sand and say that gender creates such a differant paradigm that it's impossible to understand the other, then we have a great excuse of a whole host of relationship failures; romantic, family, and otherwise.

In today's society, everybody is so self-obsessed that they'd rather excuse their failures then acknowledge them (thus admitting their doing something wrong) in order to find a solution. And heaven forbid we actually try to see anything from anybody elses point of view. But that we'd be incomprehensible to each other? Now there's a theory all the narcisists are dying to buy into.

[stonemonkey]

Nah... you're as differant as you want to be.

Then how come I will never understand the fascination with handbags and shoes? I don't think the genders are equivalent and interchangeable. If you took a newborn male baby and raised him as a female, I think he'd still retain 'male' behaviour, even if it's only because of the testosterone.

[bridgetjones]

Well I am a female and I do not understand the obsession with handbags and shoes. Sure I like pretty things and those things are pretty but overall I do not care about handbags or shoes more than I care about clothes. Well I care more about clothes.

Even then I am considered a tomboy and I have female attitudes about sex/ relationships. That seems to be hardwired into me somehow...

[stonemonkey]

Yeah, I know. There are always exceptions to the stereotypes. To be honest, I couldn't care less about sports and cars.

[Jedi of Zen]

I agree - gender alone isn't the be-all/end-all of personality..

[stonemonkey]

Well, supposedly, gender has a major influence on our perception of the world. Women apparently have much better peripheral vision. On average, they have to drop a hint 3 or 4 times to a guy on the other side of the room before he'll realise that she's interested. I don't know how true that is.

Also, in terms of careers, there are still some predominantly 'male' professions, but I guess you could argue that that's a result of culture, not genetics.

Damn, I need one of the biochicks here to back me up on this.

[and1grad]

No need for any biochick. OF COURSE gender plays a role in perception. Is there an argument against that? Cuz that would be crazy.

[meatwad]

Men and women are supposed to be different. It's how we achieve balance.

[wordsmith]

I think it's really unrealistic to say that gender doesn't have any bearing on our differences. It may be more cultural than genetic, they may be more learned/environmental than innate, and therefore more present for some than others, depending upon experience and upbringing, but they for sure exist.

[RudeGirl]

On average, they have to drop a hint 3 or 4 times to a guy on the other side of the room before he'll realise that she's interested.

But...but...the popular culture states that dudes don't take hints?!? :surprised

[stonemonkey]

I'm referring to those textbook signs of flirting. Which actually, I've never witnessed in real life. Possibly due to my 'tunnel vision', or possibly for more prosaic reasons.

Don't ask me why I know all this. I'm supposed to not give a shit.

[RudeGirl]

I'm referring to those textbook signs of flirting. Which actually, I've never witnessed in real life. Possibly due to my 'tunnel vision', or possibly for more prosaic reasons.

Don't ask me why I know all this. I'm supposed to not give a shit.

I was joshing you--or perhaps, the myth of hint-taking/not.

[stonemonkey]

Oh, sorry. I misinterpreted your subtlety. How very male of me.

[RudeGirl]

Don't worry. I'm like, a certified dude. I love power tools and hate high heels.

[wordsmith]

But that's just the thing...I'm fairly non-stereotypically girly, in many ways. I'm seldom found in fashionable attire, jeans hoodies, and ponytails are standard issue...I was always happiest as a kid building crap with my dad, stomping in muddy creek beds. I don't shop for fun, and I don't care about purses. I'd rather watch Law and Order with my dad than Sex and the City with my girlfriends.

But I still do the sterotypically girl things...I overly romanticize relationships...I fall in love sentimentally...I wear my emotions on my sleeve and want to talk them out. I cry when you hurt my feelings.

[lilyflower]

But that's just the thing...I'm fairly non-stereotypically girly, in many ways. I'm seldom found in fashionable attire, jeans hoodies, and ponytails are standard issue...I was always happiest as a kid building crap with my dad, stomping in muddy creek beds. I don't shop for fun, and I don't care about purses. I'd rather watch Law and Order with my dad than Sex and the City with my girlfriends.

Hee, I'm like that too, to an extent, Jess, but the crazy thing is that I'm getting girlier as I'm getting older. I still don't wear makeup most of the time (mainly because it's a pain in my ass) and I still don't have perfectly done nails (although I don't bite the hell out of them anymore) but I'm happy in a cute pair of jeans and a sweater, if I can get away with wearing flip flops somewhere I always will, I don't shave my legs when I can get away with it.... hmm, maybe I'm just a lazy slacker? :)

Seriously though, I highly doubt I'd meet anyone's definition of "girly".

Oh, and Law and Order kicks ASS!

[Deadend]

I think it's really unrealistic to say that gender doesn't have any bearing on our differences. It may be more cultural than genetic, they may be more learned/environmental than innate, and therefore more present for some than others, depending upon experience and upbringing, but they for sure exist.

That may be true, but I'm just trying to say that even then the other side is far from incomprehensible. All that Mars/Venus stuff is total BS, it's a well publisized fact by now that that guy got his credentials out of a cracker jack box.

I would not try to argue that the genders are the same. I do however firmly believe those differances are highly exadurated mostly thanks to several aspects of the marketing industry and many mediocre stand up comedians. That and the latent patriarchy - useful myths perpetuating the perception "inferior" or "too differant", either is an excuse not to take what women have to say seriously.

This thread itself seems to be full of women with "but I do this and that like a guy". So for "so differant" we seem to be able to present ample evidence to the contrary. The topic here is that of gender roles. And it's a rich topic to be sure. What I find interesting is that there are so many women all so eager to boast their "male-like" personality traits, and yet men are themselves not doing the same thing (i.e. boasting female-like personality traits). I myself can't stand just about any sports other then watching the very occasional hockey game, can't stand action movies, and preform foreign and indie films. On the other thand I love power tools and am a consumate handy-man.

What's mainly being discussed here is gender stereotypes, and when anybody of any gender is amazed when they fall out of the stereotypes, it's not surprising at all - it's because those stereotypes are complete BS. Sports are for guys? Those groupies must be alot of gay men then. Women are obsessed with handbags and shoes? Ha! wouldn't the retailers love it if that were true? Law and order is a guy's show? Since when? And I've watched sex in the city quite a few times (it's like seinfeld, it works best when you hate the charecters).

There have been essays about this which discuss what seems to be a general distaste for feminine traits in society by both genders. I've seen it first hand as self-loathing in women and sexual insecurity in men. Look for "Female Chauvenist pigs" by Ariel Levy for further reading.

[tdko]

That may be true, but I'm just trying to say that even then the other side is far from incomprehensible. I would not try to argue that the genders are the same. I do however firmly believe those differances are highly exadurated mostly thanks to several aspects of the marketing industry and many mediocre stand up comedians.
I agree that men and women are certainly able to communicate. The differences in communication styles are bridgeable (if that's a word), if you actually try.

Mindset differences between men and women can easily be seen in young children. Boys tend to play competitive games while girls tend to have cooperative games. This has been true longer than we've had stand up comedians and a marketing industry. And it's true in different cultures. That's biology kicking in. Women's tendency to wear lipstick is more societal, but that's not an issue of mindset or communication, but spending habits and social norms.

I think the fact that men and women think differently is something we should all accept and appreciate.

[and1grad]

I think the fact that men and women think differently is something we should all accept and appreciate.
I agree and it drives me nuts when people try to act like those differences dont exist.

[wordsmith]

Or act like it matters at all whether they're innate or learned?

I'm a woman, I'm a nurturer. Many women are. Does that mean no men are nurturers? Not at all. And why are women nurturers? Because it's genetically programmed into them since they're the ones who bear children, children who, in the most privitive sense, need to be cared for or protected? Or is it because it's societally programmed in that it's "a woman's place" to do the nurturing? Who cares? Does it matter? No.

[stonemonkey]

Who cares? Does it matter? No.

Well, I don't think it makes a difference whether it's innate or learned, but I also don't think it's complete bullshit to simply ask the question. I fucking hate this attitude that you're not allowed to ask questions.

[wordsmith]

No, no, no...it's not the asking of questions that I have a problem with.

My point is, I've noticed, in life, with this topic, that in some camps it's taboo to point out that, yes, there are differences. Why? "Because the differences are a construct of society," is one argument. And in some cases, that's true. But it's always stated as if these aren't actual differences, then, or that saying they're are differences isn't valid, or that it's not cool somehow to acknowledge that they exist. I don't agree. Even if the differences were TOTALLY learned, they're still there, they still exist.

I said earlier...I might not be stereotypically girlie in some ways. In others, I am.

[stonemonkey]

OK, I think I understand where you're coming from. Like people who say that because the differences are learned, then they're not 'real' differences. Which is bullshit.

I thought you were coming down with a "let's end the discussion now because I don't care why it is the way it is, it just is" statement.

[wordsmith]

Me? END discussions, rather than drag them on and on and on ad infinitum? Surely, you jest.

[stonemonkey]

I'm just trying to say that even then the other side is far from incomprehensible.

Yeah, fine, but nobody's trying to say that (at least not here, anyway). Nobody's trying to say that males and females are incapable of getting along or understanding each other because the differences are so great that they might as well be from different planets.

Differences in perception already exist simply from a biochemical argument, so there's definitely something going on.

[wordsmith]

Right. I don't think it's a matter AT ALL of "the differences are so incomprehensible there's no hope." On the contrary, I think it's actually pretty beneficial to recognize that there are these common differences that hinder things, (particularly rooted in differences in communication, and differences in perception); it helps you make strides toward getting past that barrier.

[bridgetjones]

But...but...the popular culture states that dudes don't take hints?!? :surprised

Uh... Cuz if they do not like each other they punch each others lites out. Now in girl world we just hate each other and stab each other in the back :p

Which in my experience has been more true than not. I have gotten into trouble bc I did not take hints frm other girls very well. By the time I say "why didnt you say so?" it was too late. :confused: Argh... I prefer blunt. At least I get it and I can do something with it. :confused: Then again that is the tomboy in me.

[WeirdBrake]

Women are obsessed with handbags and shoes?

Gee, I certainly don't know any women like THAT! :p

[WeirdBrake]

I fucking hate this attitude that you're not allowed to ask questions.

Well, there's no reason to get potty-mouthed about it. LOL :lol:

[WeirdBrake]

Me? END discussions, rather than drag them on and on and on ad infinitum? Surely, you jest.

No comment. :twisted:

[wordsmith]

Pot...Kettle...

[WeirdBrake]

Pot...Kettle...

Say what? ;)

[pisces2473]

I'm only obsessed with finding COMFY shoes. Everything else can go to hell.

[Deadend]

I'm only obsessed with finding COMFY shoes. Everything else can go to hell.

that's a euphamism for cunilingus, isn't it?


(the p-word is on "the list" right?)

[pisces2473]

that's a euphamism for cunilingus, isn't it?


(the p-word is on "the list" right?)
Huh? Dude, I'm talking about SHOES, for fuck's sake!