This article almost fits us to a "T."

[Goldeneye]

Just about says it all... one of the things that makes me want to smash a hole into a wall a hundred times over.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060124/bs_usatoday/youngearnersfaceintensefinancialchallenge

[katip]

Boy do I relate to that. I've been supporting myself for the past four years with student loans ($40K :eek: ), credit cards ( :redface: The only way that I kept myself clothed in stuff not falling apart... :( ) and a part-time job or two. I was always looking ahead to when I graduated and got a job that would allow me to live without constant worry about money.

Surprise! Happy Graduation!
Going over my budget with the salary I'll have when I graduate makes me realize that I'll be even more stressed out about money since I won't be able to take out an extra student loan or just use the excuse, "I'm in college."

Add car payments (public transportation really isn't feasible after college, not to mention dangerous since I wouldn't be taking the bus just around campus anymore), student loan payments (~$255 WITH consolidation!), health insurance (the one and only thing I've had help from my parents with).... Oh wait! I need to start saving for retirement NOW, otherwise I'll be working until I'm 80. :redface:

[shadeofgreen]

Articles like that always have to mention people who moved back in with their parents to save money. That scares me. My sister and I both flew from the nest last year and we're both having financial issues now. I always thought once I was out of the house, that would be it, I'd stay out, but who knows.

I can't seem to find one job, much less many to bounce to and from. That's why I fall into the temp category. Bah.

[yankeeyosh]

Hmm...wasn't there another thread related to this article. Still, it's a great topic.

By the way, I noticed that the people surveyed were born between 71 and 87...with the 'X'/'Y' boundary nearly split right down the middle, if we agree on 77/78 as Gen 'X'/Gen 'Y' (there are other boundaries, and you may disagree on these...). It would be very interesting if there is a difference in how people responded based on age.

[RudeGirl]

• Having businesses and the government create a joint trust to fund universal child care and education.

Like, don't they already do this, and isn't this why prices are through the roof now?

I live at home, and if the press doesn't like it, they can eat it. My aunt did, too, until she got married -- she was 25 at the time -- and she was a Boomer, and a law school student, besides. Living at home and being in debt is not ubiquitous to this generation.

Ever notice how the news --especially the feature writing -- is the same old stuff over and over again? The economy is always horrible, the president is always an incompetent, lying SOB, other countries hate us, and celebrities are pregnant.

[MollyMe]

I never really relate to these articles. I am pretty happy with my life. I don't really think the past was any better or worse than now.

"Having businesses and the government create a joint trust to fund universal child care and education."
An educated society is a good thing, but I am not in favor of big government. We will just see higher taxes. We already have FSAs for child care and education is free until 12th grade and some financial assistance post-high school.

[MuBetaPsi_Xi]

I just read the excerpt of "Strapped" that was linked to the above mentioned article. This excerpt implied that there was something wrong with going off to a two-year college in lieu of a four-year college. I don't see what's wrong with this. I went to a four-year college, but it seems sensible to start off at a two-year school for the first two years of a BA degree and then transfer. Especially if you don't know what you want to study at school.

The premise of this "Strapped" excerpt was that college was more accessible in the 70's than it is today. My parents are baby boomers and they were in their 20's in the seventies. My father earned his BA degree by commuting to two different community colleges, then transferred to a four-year school where he continued to commute while holding down a nearly full-time job. My mother didn't even get a college degree until I was a teenager and she went back to school for her associate degree and then her nursing license. Meanwhile, I and two of my sisters lived away at four-year schools and we graduated with our B.A. degrees in 8 semesters each, and one of us is now in graduate school. We have a fourth sister who is also now living away at school and working on a B.A. So was college more accessible to my parents generation or my generation? I would say that my sisters and I had more access.

[Media Guy]

I fully agree with the article. At work I actually have the title Supervisor and have a yearly salary of $45. Even with a good salary I cannot even afford to buy a condo. Between my cell, car payment, paying for school and car insurance my monthly must pays total $650. Then take out medical insurance, 11% for 401k, train ticket and I cannot afforad a place costing more that $120,000. I still live at home, around chicago, where decent places go for $170,000. Everyday I try to figure out how to afford the life of an actual 25 year old vs. a college grad living at home and I have no idea.

[yankeeyosh]

I just read the excerpt of "Strapped" that was linked to the above mentioned article. This excerpt implied that there was something wrong with going off to a two-year college in lieu of a four-year college. I don't see what's wrong with this. I went to a four-year college, but it seems sensible to start off at a two-year school for the first two years of a BA degree and then transfer. Especially if you don't know what you want to study at school.

The premise of this "Strapped" excerpt was that college was more accessible in the 70's than it is today. My parents are baby boomers and they were in their 20's in the seventies. My father earned his BA degree by commuting to two different community colleges, then transferred to a four-year school where he continued to commute while holding down a nearly full-time job. My mother didn't even get a college degree until I was a teenager and she went back to school for her associate degree and then her nursing license. Meanwhile, I and two of my sisters lived away at four-year schools and we graduated with our B.A. degrees in 8 semesters each, and one of us is now in graduate school. We have a fourth sister who is also now living away at school and working on a B.A. So was college more accessible to my parents generation or my generation? I would say that my sisters and I had more access.

But for the Boom, college wasn't as important. In the seventies, good jobs without a college degree were still plentiful, and colleges were very cheap (tuition at NYC colleges was still free, and even Harvard wasn't more than a few thousand). Now, with 20-25 years of tuition rising double to triple the rate of inflation, and nearly every decent job requiring at least a bachelor's degree, combined with the fierce competition to get even into second-tier schools, it is a no-win situation...a bachelor's is bare minimum, and a master's is the new bachelor's...soon a master's may be like a high school diploma the rate things are going. They're gonna have to invent a degree beyond the Ph. D.

[MollyMe]

yankeeyosh, do you have any data to back up your claims?

[yankeeyosh]

yankeeyosh, do you have any data to back up your claims?

Which claims? The tuition? I can't look it up now, since I have to get ready for work, but I know for a fact that until the fiscal crisis of the seventies, City University of New York schools were free to all...including all four year schools (I'm not talking about Columbia, NYU, etc...I'm just referring to the public city schools). They're still pretty cheap (~$170/credit in state), but for many working New Yorkers who want to get ahead, it's still out of reach...

Back in the day, City College, which is part of the CUNY system, was known as the "Poor Man's Harvard". For no cost whatsoever, except for books and transportation, a person could get a world-class education at a school where the standards rivaled the Ivy League. Many, many super-intelligent New Yorkers who couldn't afford tuition in Ivy League schools (or were excluded because they were Jewish :mad: ) took advantage of it...unfortunately, Mayor Lindsay happened, the fiscal crisis happened, President Ford told NYC to "Drop Dead", and the rest is history...City College still is OK, but the standards are nowhere near what they were 40 years ago.

[katip]

What about this:

We have expenses that the Boomers never even knew would exist:

- Cell Phone (instead of a $15 house phone)
- Cable, satellite, DVR
- Home internet
- Netflix, or similar service

If you have those things, think about how much money you spend per month on them... Now think how our parents had that money to pay off debt, put into savings or use as "fun money"... :neutral: Many of us consider those expenses necessary, not optional. I know it would be hard for me to live w/o my cell phone, home internet and cable.

[inmediasres]

Those aren't fixed expenses. Those are luxuries.

[katip]

Those aren't fixed expenses. Those are luxuries.

I realize that. But the point that I was making is that many of us DON'T consider those luxuries. And that they weren't even available as luxuries when our parents were our age so they couldn't spend money on them even if they wanted to.

[yankeeyosh]

What about this:

We have expenses that the Boomers never even knew would exist:

- Cell Phone (instead of a $15 house phone)
- Cable, satellite, DVR
- Home internet
- Netflix, or similar service

If you have those things, think about how much money you spend per month on them... Now think how our parents had that money to pay off debt, put into savings or use as "fun money"... :neutral: Many of us consider those expenses necessary, not optional. I know it would be hard for me to live w/o my cell phone, home internet and cable.

Well, I don't know if I would consider Netflix as "necessary"...I guess with our generation, the internet, cell phone and cable are nearly a given (although I didn't have a cell till Aug 03, didn't even have a computer in grad school - since I had my own comp in the lab, and I knew plenty of people who lived w/o cable).

[Night Writer]

Everyday I try to figure out how to afford the life of an actual 25 year old vs. a college grad living at home and I have no idea.

This is something I've been trying to figure out myself. I'm so embarassed to still be living at home, when I know there are a few of my fellow graduates who are on their own, were able to buy new cars and are living the upper-class life I personally long for. Or maybe it's just a display and they have credit card debt up the wazoo . . . that's something I'm trying to avoid; I have enough debt as it is, and I can't find a job that'll allow me to pay debts off ASAP, get an apartment, and ideally a newer car. It's like I'll have to do some sort of job assessment to see what fields I can try to enter, since the career of my dreams seems to be beyond my reach at this point. :(

[PVD99]

I'm so embarassed to still be living at home, when I know there are a few of my fellow graduates who are on their own, were able to buy new cars and are living the upper-class life I personally long for.

The thing about that is...it's not the norm. It is rare that someone who is in their midtwenties lives this type of lifestyle. Sure there are a select few who probably make big salaries, but again, that's rare. Who makes 100K right out of school? Unless you're in sales or you started your own company. Do you know what they do for jobs?

Also, if they don't have high salaries the only other explanation is parental help, trust fund, or credit card debt/loans. The money has to be coming from somewhere.

[PVD99]

Cable/netflix and a cell phone are not needed. What you're saying is, "well those things weren't even available to them! they're so easily available to us and we need them"... and I'd disagree. Yes, it is the year 2006, but these things are definitely luxuries. These are options and you do not need them. If someone is complaining that money is so tight and they can barely afford to pay rent, they should get rid of the cell/netflix/cable. Do you realize how much money that will save you over a year?

Cell - let's say 50/mo or 600 a year.
Netflix - 30/mo? I don't know the exact number. So, 360 a year for that.
Cable, are we talking premium or basic? - If you're getting HBO/SHOWTIME it's at least 80, right? That's almost 1,000 a year for cable!

So right there is about $2,000 of expenses that you don't really need. If those were freed up you could probably live a little more comfortably. (I'm not directing this towards you, I'm just directing it towards everyone who claims they're broke but "has" to have all these other things)

[katip]

So right there is about $2,000 of expenses that you don't really need. If those were freed up you could probably live a little more comfortably. (I'm not directing this towards you, I'm just directing it towards everyone who claims they're broke but "has" to have all these other things)

Exactly.

We all grew up with them. A lot of college grads are used to having them and continue using them without thinking of alternatives or how much money they actually cost.



When something that is a convenience/luxury but considered non-optional, that says something about our expectations as well. I don't have Netflix (we use the public library) nor cable tv at home. I have a cell phone which I consider a convenience and safety item but I keep my bills low ($30 a month) and not talk on it all the time. Finally, I have DSL at home so I can work from home in the evenings instead of staying at the office. That's a great convenience. However, I consider all those items luxuries.

Sure, some of you are great in this area. You keep you bills at what you know you can afford and NEED (not WANT). That's the key: Living under your means, not over.

However, I was saying that many people don't do this.
Now, consider the fact that our parents did NOT have these "luxuries," "necessaries," "givens," or whatever even available to even chose to have them or not. Perhaps if our parents grew up with these items their generation wouldn't have been much different from ours? They would have struggled with similar debt and living troubles?

My point, yet again, is just that many of our generation consider these things necessary (just do a search about bills on this board), so we won't do without them. This hurts us financially. Our parents didn't even have these as options, so they automatically had an extra ~$2000 a year for alternative uses. This MIGHT contribute to the differences in our generations?

(Am I just completely in left field here in thinking this way? I think it makes a bit of sense...)

[PVD99]

Yeah, there is a post on here about budgets. People posted their budgets and added things like: gym, personal trainer, cable, internet, vet bills for the dog. First of all, having a dog is like having a child. It's expensive! The vet bills and just food/medicine can be costly. It doesn't mean that you should deny yourself of things that really make you happy, but if you seriously are living paycheck to paycheck...it might be a good idea to compare your needs vs. wants. I want the internet at my place, but I could live without it if I wasn't able to afford it. It is not a "need". I could just use the library or check my emails at work.

[katip]

Yeah, there is a post on here about budgets. People posted their budgets and added things like: gym, personal trainer, cable, internet, vet bills for the dog. First of all, having a dog is like having a child. It's expensive! The vet bills and just food/medicine can be costly. It doesn't mean that you should deny yourself of things that really make you happy, but if you seriously are living paycheck to paycheck...it might be a good idea to compare your needs vs. wants. I want the internet at my place, but I could live without it if I wasn't able to afford it. It is not a "need". I could just use the library or check my emails at work.

Exactly. :)

When it comes down to it people could live with using the library or campus for Internet, watching network TV (think of all of the extra time you'd have!), using the outdoors or living room as a gym, and keeping a fish instead of a dog. Make up a budget with just the essentials; it's surprising.

Which is why I believe that our parents had it a bit easier. They didn't feel like they were depriving themselves of wants.

(OK, I'm done repeating myself and now have to go off to listen to someone else lecture ;) )

[RudeGirl]

I don't think it's a stretch to say that we spend too much money on "conveniences" that are really luxuries. I take great pride in being a cheap son-of-a-bitch; I didn't have a cell phone until April, 2005; I got my first portable Discman in 2004. People don't NEED iPods or designer jeans; they want them.

Furthermore, I do agree with those of you who've said that a degree getting one more money is totally situational and dependent on area of residence. I live in the North Boroughs of Pittsburgh. Most of the kids in my high school who didn't go to college or who went to two-year tech schools, or beauty school, or whatever, are easily making twice my income, at least. Some of them are already buying homes and starting families, too. At both of my jobs, I'm one of the only people with a college degree; everyone else got there by working their way up, and some of them aren't too far off in age from me, either. I agree that a degree is both decreasing in value and not absolutely necessary. It depends on who you are, where you live, and what you do.

[yankeeyosh]

Here's what's more expensive for us compared to the Boom/Gen 'X':

Rent/Housing - If you live in the big cities, there's nothing else to say...if you don't, ask someone in the big cities, or check out any one of a gazillion threads about it.

Student Loans - The average debt went from roughly ~7K for the classes of the early 90s to well over 20K for the classes of the early 00s.

Commuting/gas - Yes, there were two oil crises in the seventies, so gas prices relative to inflation actually aren't unprecedented, but we commute a lot more than we used to...so that makes a difference.

Food - Since Gen 'Y' is always on the go, with many of us working longer hours than previous generations, whether it's on the job or in grad school, we don't have time to cook, and are forced to eat out all the time.

Tuition - Since many of us are in grad school, unless we get total tuition support, we have to pay for our addiction to listening heads by paying through the nose rates that increase twice to three times inflation. And this exacerbates the above debt

Car Insurance - We're at a point where it can easily cost more to insure a car than one is making in monthly payments.

Cell service/Internet - I admit, this is mostly a given for our gen, and with our incredibly busy lives (or at least, those who are so lucky), we need these to stay in touch.

I can probably think of others...if my mind doesn't wander...

[MuBetaPsi_Xi]

I was reading the posts regarding the necessity of owning a cell phone because I've been asking myself lately whether I really need mine. At one time I had no intention of owning a cell phone and now I feel as if I can't function without my cell phone.
When I graduated from college in 1999, I didn't have a cell phone, and I don't think I even got one until around 2002. My parents got me one for my birthday because at the time I lived an hour away from them, I lived alone, and I am a woman. (I also didn't have a serious boyfriend at the time.) So this was something they could do to stop worrying about me as much. Since I own a car and I did alot of driving at that time, I had several experiences of having my car disabled when I was on the road. (I had a few flat tires, and a few times my car just broke down). I had some of these experiences before I had the cell phone and several experiences after I had the cell phone, and let me tell you, the experiences where much more bearable when I didn't have to flag down some passing motorist so that I could use his or her phone.

When I moved to Pittsburgh, I decided not to have a connection installed in my apartment for a land line telephone. Instead, I only make personal phone calls on my cell phone after 7 p.m. on the weeknights or on the weekends, when my unlimited minutes kick in. So I have no separate phone bill on my residence. Finally, I pay the extra $6 a month or whatever so that I can have internet access on my phone. I plug the phone into my laptop during the hours when I have unlimited minutes - so I have no separate bill for an internet connection either.

Right now I live alone again and every morning I walk to the bus stop and take the bus to downtown Pittsburgh to work. Its usually dark during my commute home, so again, the cell phone is a safety item.

Since my fiance already has DSL and he pays for a land phone line at his house, I was considering getting rid of my cell phone after I move in with him. However, he wants me to keep my phone for safety reasons, especially as I will be commuting an hour to work when I live with him.

[MuBetaPsi_Xi]

I didn't really say this in my message above, but I guess my feeling is that a cell phone IS a necessity if you live alone or do alot of traveling or have a long commute to work - especially if you're a woman. There are so many sick people out there, that its good to have a way to call for help if needed. When I was still trying to meet and date new guys, I always felt much more secure on a first date when I had my phone with me.

[RudeGirl]

I didn't really say this in my message above, but I guess my feeling is that a cell phone IS a necessity if you live alone or do alot of traveling or have a long commute to work - especially if you're a woman. There are so many sick people out there, that its good to have a way to call for help if needed. When I was still trying to meet and date new guys, I always felt much more secure on a first date when I had my phone with me.

You're using it as a landline, cell, and Internet hookup all at once though, so your method is, in fact, quite economical.

[jdt141]

I'd like to debate the "need" factor of a cell phone.

I need it. I made that realization in college, when I was never at my apartment, and nobody could get ahold of me for group meetings, etc. I couldn't survive my classes, and I couldn't get shit done.

Since then, I have not gotten a land line. I don't need a land line, I need a wireless solution. People can get ahold of me all the time, it makes my life cheaper, b/c I'm not running home then running out. Its a time saver. And someone tell me the value of time??? When you're trying to work full time, do grad school, and have something :neutral: of a life.... time is critical. So I need a cell phone, and have no problem paying 50 bucks a month for one. When you do the math, its almost the same price of a landline anyway. I don't see how it could be considered a luxury with our get up and go lifestyle today.

[yankeeyosh]

I'd like to debate the "need" factor of a cell phone.

I need it. I made that realization in college, when I was never at my apartment, and nobody could get ahold of me for group meetings, etc. I couldn't survive my classes, and I couldn't get shit done.

Since then, I have not gotten a land line. I don't need a land line, I need a wireless solution. People can get ahold of me all the time, it makes my life cheaper, b/c I'm not running home then running out. Its a time saver. And someone tell me the value of time??? When you're trying to work full time, do grad school, and have something :neutral: of a life.... time is critical. So I need a cell phone, and have no problem paying 50 bucks a month for one. When you do the math, its almost the same price of a landline anyway. I don't see how it could be considered a luxury with our get up and go lifestyle today.

Exactly, as I said, Gen 'Y' is far more go-go and incredibly busy than any other generation, so a cell phone is basically essential. And about the value of time, Gen 'Y' finds time as a currency much more than any other generation...

On the contrary, actually, since we are ***so*** active and anyone not named yankeeyosh is rarely at home, Internet and cable may not be necessary after all, since we're never home (unless you're taking online grad courses... :) )

[Dreamchasa]

Well I feel like I keep it to the basics.

Cell phone but its the only phone.
Cable comes free with the apt (yea right like it aint in the rent) but I half the rent with my cousin.
Student Loans they are kicking back in.
Car
and all those OM GOOOODNESS WHERE DID THAT COME FROM BILLS?

I think where i live is just really expensive and they don't adjust salaries here for the cost of living. Of course my major is expense is Langston. lol Gotta love the kids.

I still find it frustrating that i'm not saving more though. I want to get to the point where I can put away 15% and I'm lucky if I can put away 20 bucks.

[yankeeyosh]

I agree that a phone (whether landline or mobile) is pretty essential to living a "normal" life nowadays. Which option makes better sense is really situational, IMO. For some, landlines are a waste. I nearly exclusively use my cell--and I did only use my cell when I was away at college. It was soooooo much cheaper. However, the newer, better, cooler, more expensive phone is not a necessity, and neither is using lots of minutes on calls out of boredom. Having and using a cell phone doesn't have to be all that expensive. It depends on how it's used. (It's not "wrong" to have the newer, cooler, etc. phone or plan, but it's definitely possible to scale down if one's budget is tight.)

Right...it definitely doesn't have to be ***too*** expensive. Basic plans are generally $29.99-39.99/month, which comes out to ~40-50 after taxes. Since everyone has a different area code nowadays (mine is out of Florida, even though I'm over 1,000 miles away), it would likely be cheaper if you make a "normal" amount of calls and have no overages.

[canela]

I'll admit I skipped the second page of posts because I'm cramped for time, so if I missed something, I apologize in advance...

As far as the luxuries of cell phone, cable/dish, highspeed internet, Netflix, what have you...

I don't know, but I've given up all of these short of a base base plan on my cell phone (which I use for work) because the disconnect fee is more than I pay out on it. I don't have cable (bunny ears anyone?), high speed internet (ha.. dial up, but before that I was driving 30 minutes to find a Panara Bread to leech off of) I'm still struggling to get enough hours from work to pay my bills... (granted, I live in a cheaper part of the country at the moment, but the struggles are the same no matter what the specific numbers are) I'm driving a pickup truck older than some people here on the QLC forums...my one splurge when I get a pay check cannot amount to more than $25... this month it was a haircut.

[bridgetjones]

Sigh. I am responsible with not much debt. I have an ok paying job. I can afford to live on my own but on a tight budget. FYI cellphones are not luxury for the most part anymore. Work requires them. Then again they can replace landlines.

Anyways if I live in the suburbs my rent is lower but I need a car. If I live in the core, my rent goes up and the cheap places in the areas I want to live in are crappy. Hmm... Although I am considering to live in student housing since it tend s to be cheap and is in a good area. I am not a student and I know ppl that do this. Heck I have a few non student pals that live in a frat. They want me to move in! Is that wierd?

[XJMP]

Anyways if I live in the suburbs my rent is lower but I need a car. If I live in the core, my rent goes up and the cheap places in the areas I want to live in are crappy. Hmm... Although I am considering to live in student housing since it tend s to be cheap and is in a good area. I am not a student and I know ppl that do this. Heck I have a few non student pals that live in a frat. They want me to move in! Is that wierd?

I live in the Milwaukee area. I live in a condominium in a somewhat downscale area. It needs a lot of work. I have looked into selling the place, and moving into an apartment or condo in an "upscale" area. However, I can't afford $850 a month rent, nor can I afford $ 170,000 for a condo in a more prestigious area. I may end up staying put, and fixing my place up nicely. (Fixed up my place should be worth about $ 60,000.)

I don't really enjoy the neighborhood where I live. Still, it is what I can afford. Not everybody can live in a fun, upscale area. I have decided to make do.

XJMP

Postscript:

I hope some 30 year old madly-in-love couples don't delay marriage, perhaps for years, because their budget for a house is "only" $ 500,000, and everything suitably upscale is $ 700,000. That would be sad. It isn't a divine right to be affluent at age 30.