Careers using Java?

[yankeeyosh]

Well, I'm taking a course in Java at the CC, and it really has piqued my interest..it seems really exciting. I'm thinking that if the cat modeling doesn't work out, maybe I can do something that might involve Java...I know there are certificate programs out there; if someone could tell me what it would entail, I would greatly appreciate it (I don't think I'd want to do the whole BS in CS thing).

[Morgan81]

Unfortunatly most coding jobs are now overseas. That isn't to say Java is dead in this country, there are jobs right now, but it's usallay a very high level of programming that is needed, in other words a BS would probably be a minimum.
That isn't to say you shouldn't be taking those classes. I love coding and it's helped me out in many other ways and using different languages. You'll find that the grammer might change, but the core structure of methods, procedures, loops and the like stay the same from language to language. So if you have a solid understanding of programming you can look at almost any source code and understand what is going on.

[yankeeyosh]

Unfortunatly most coding jobs are now overseas. That isn't to say Java is dead in this country, there are jobs right now, but it's usallay a very high level of programming that is needed, in other words a BS would probably be a minimum.
That isn't to say you shouldn't be taking those classes. I love coding and it's helped me out in many other ways and using different languages. You'll find that the grammer might change, but the core structure of methods, procedures, loops and the like stay the same from language to language. So if you have a solid understanding of programming you can look at almost any source code and understand what is going on.

So what would you recommend for me to do? Go for the whole BS in CS?

[Morgan81]

I have my degree in Computer Science and Information Systems, which allowed me to take some technical courses and some management/business courses. I didn't have to take the uber-geek courses but I still got a very solid understanding of the basics. My reasoning was I wanted to be well-rounded, instead of just able to do technical things.
You might want to see if your college offers anything like this if that is up your alley.

[yankeeyosh]

I have my degree in Computer Science and Information Systems, which allowed me to take some technical courses and some management/business courses. I didn't have to take the uber-geek courses but I still got a very solid understanding of the basics. My reasoning was I wanted to be well-rounded, instead of just able to do technical things.
You might want to see if your college offers anything like this if that is up your alley.

I thought there was some kind of certification you could get...I really don't want to get a whole new degree if I don't have to

[Bruiser]

There are plenty of certification tracks out there. I've been told by several people that Cisco and Security certs are the way to go; they are currently the only jobs not being sent overseas en masse.

[AznHisoka]

As a computer programmer who programs in Java, the supply of people out there with BS's and know Java is huge. You definitely need the BS degree if you want to have a chance. Networking, and system administration are the fields you want to pursue if you simply want to be certified.

That said, have you thought about using those Java skills on the web? I'm talking about making an e-commerce site, content site, or any site that can bring in revenue. Java servlets and Java Server Pages are popular methods of constructing websites. You definitely do not need a degree to use Java on the web - just a strong grasp of Java fundamentals, and a willingness to learn more.

[yankeeyosh]

As a computer programmer who programs in Java, the supply of people out there with BS's and know Java is huge. You definitely need the BS degree if you want to have a chance. Networking, and system administration are the fields you want to pursue if you simply want to be certified.

When you mean a BS, do you mean a BS in CS or a BS in anything? I have an MS, and I have had several years' experience programming in Fortran.

[AznHisoka]

BS in CS. And Fortran is pretty much dead nowadays.

[yankeeyosh]

BS in CS. And Fortran is pretty much dead nowadays.

I know it's dead :neutral: Except in meteorology...so you think I have to go for the whole degree to have any chance to get any job that uses Java?

[MollyMe]

I don't know if it has changed, but a few years back all these people were graduating with BS in CS degrees and finding jobs weren't as plentiful as hoped.

[yankeeyosh]

Seriously, are there any jobs out there for someone with a master's degree in meteorology who worked in pension administrator for four years that are not related to pensions?

[MollyMe]

I don't know. People I know in meteorology work in: social work, real estate, sales (telemarketing), cashier, and some other odd jobs. A few still stormchase for the local TV stations. Two have jobs related to their major. I know a few of them realized after graduation that they loved the weather but hated meteorology.

[yankeeyosh]

I don't know. People I know in meteorology work in: social work, real estate, sales (telemarketing), cashier, and some other odd jobs. A few still stormchase for the local TV stations. Two have jobs related to their major. I know a few of them realized after graduation that they loved the weather but hated meteorology.

It's a field that is way too saturated. I'm not even trying out for the forecasting jobs...I look into the netherworlds of the field...and it's still impossible to find something. :cry:

[Bruiser]

...so you think I have to go for the whole degree to have any chance to get any job that uses Java?

Not to sound like a broken record, but experience will almost always trump a degree. If you can learn Java, JSP, J2EE, and the other flavors of Java, and can build programs, dynamic web pages, etc with what you have learned, you can put it on your resume and talk to your experience with the language.

[yankeeyosh]

Not to sound like a broken record, but experience will almost always trump a degree. If you can learn Java, JSP, J2EE, and the other flavors of Java, and can build programs, dynamic web pages, etc with what you have learned, you can put it on your resume and talk to your experience with the language.

OK...so how do I get the experience? You mean actually create my own webpage and use that as "experience"? I honestly don't have any reason to create a webpage right now.

[Bruiser]

Are there any tasks at work that could be better served through a better system, or done via the web? On my own time, or during slow periods at my current position, I exercise my creative muscles by working on little side projects that could make my life easier. I wrote Word macros to automate data entry of resume data into an Access database. I created a password-protected web site that allows our field recruiters to update our candidate database and to view reports about their workload. I created an password-protected online timesheet for our consultants in the field that dumps the data into a MySQL database, and e-mails the information to payroll.

All things I taught myself, all things that I can count as experience, even though my official job responsibilities do not call for these skills.

[yankeeyosh]

Are there any tasks at work that could be better served through a better system, or done via the web?

At my job? Well, I guess so, but to be honest with you, I would be afraid to use anything that makes me look "smart" because they'll think I'm trying to get out of this job since the skill set required for this job is basically nothing you can find in any college.

[Bruiser]

At my job? Well, I guess so, but to be honest with you, I would be afraid to use anything that makes me look "smart" because they'll think I'm trying to get out of this job since the skill set required for this job is basically nothing you can find in any college.

That really sucks if you have to tread that lightly around your office. I had a bit more freedom to pursue things I mentioned previously. I always presented my ideas as productivity-enhancers. For instance, the resume data entry process took up around 2 hours of my time every day, to process 50 resumes. Once I wrote the macros, I could process 50 resumes in less than 2 minutes. Of course, I had other things to take up my saved time...you don't want to program yourself out of a job :razz:

[yankeeyosh]

That really sucks if you have to tread that lightly around your office. I had a bit more freedom to pursue things I mentioned previously. I always presented my ideas as productivity-enhancers. For instance, the resume data entry process took up around 2 hours of my time every day, to process 50 resumes. Once I wrote the macros, I could process 50 resumes in less than 2 minutes. Of course, I had other things to take up my saved time...you don't want to program yourself out of a job :razz:

Well, it's not that I don't have the freedom, it's just that I don't have the freedom to do stuff that's not related to pensions. They want me to reconcile assets, do valuations and government forms, maybe some basic, basic algebra, but that's it. And the routine cycles again year after year....

[yankeeyosh]

I'm gonna speak with my brother's friend, who works for Microsoft, on Sunday, to discuss this...he may have some advice...he actually mentioned that C-sharp is the new "in thing".

[old_school_soul]

I'm gonna speak with my brother's friend, who works for Microsoft, on Sunday, to discuss this...he may have some advice...he actually mentioned that C-sharp is the new "in thing".

Well he works for Microsoft, of course he's going to tell you that. You've got to be able to play to be a programmer. You've got to see something that needs automation and create your own system. Learning and mastering a computer language is just as difficult as learing a new spoken language.

I suggest you find something simple to do, and roll with it. I think you should start learning with python..

[AznHisoka]

Do what I suggested. Make your own original content-rich, or ecommerce website. I'm sure you have some niche interests that could be good topics for a site. You'll enjoy it, learn a lot in the process, and might even make some money if you advertise. I definitely find the web programming aspect of Java much more fun. There's a free JSP e-book at www.coreservlets.com that can get you started. Don't know any website ideas? Here's some:

1. StudyDesk- Make an interactive forum-like website that offers students to create their own study forums where they can discuss assignments with other students in the same class. Kinda like Blackboard, but more interactive.
2. Company reviews/Internship reviews site - Sorta like Vault.com but with free access?
3. A site with advice/articles for quarterlifers?

[yankeeyosh]

3. A site with advice/articles for quarterlifers?

An idea...part of my whole Gen 'Y' scheme...

[RudeGirl]

Well, it's not that I don't have the freedom, it's just that I don't have the freedom to do stuff that's not related to pensions. They want me to reconcile assets, do valuations and government forms, maybe some basic, basic algebra, but that's it. And the routine cycles again year after year....

I get it -- you're bored!

Learn Java, learn it well, learn to do web-based programming. I'd advise you to learn Perl and XML, too. Dreamweaver can't hurt, either. You really don't need CC for any of these classes, but if you learn better this way, it's always nice to have hands-on instruction.

Then, think of how your web programming knowledge can help you at work. Could you promote your company and its services via an interactive website? Could you create interactive ads for other websites to generate ad revenue for your firm? Could you keep a company-specific website that functiond as a dtatabase of clients and services performed for them? What can you do?

[MrNCG23]

To add on to what oldschoolsoul said, python is a good language, and you can amuse yourself with the python challenge (www.pythonchallenge.com) - puzzles where you write programs to solve. It's fairly fun for programmers, and might be motivating for someone just learning the language.

[yankeeyosh]

I get it -- you're bored!

Learn Java, learn it well, learn to do web-based programming. I'd advise you to learn Perl and XML, too. Dreamweaver can't hurt, either. You really don't need CC for any of these classes, but if you learn better this way, it's always nice to have hands-on instruction.

Then, think of how your web programming knowledge can help you at work. Could you promote your company and its services via an interactive website? Could you create interactive ads for other websites to generate ad revenue for your firm? Could you keep a company-specific website that functiond as a dtatabase of clients and services performed for them? What can you do?

There is no website for my company (!) So that is definitely an idea...of course, hopefully I won't stay long enough so that's a concern, but you know, that's a great, great, excellent idea, Rudie! Thanks! :)

[lostindc]

My suggestion is get a BS in Computer Science (or if you already have a BS in a math related field you might be able to get into an MS program which would consist of roughly 10 courses and could be done at night or during the weekend)

A CS BS or MS program is not going to teach you how to program in any language (with the possible exception of the first one or two courses). Think of learning a language as learning to use a tool. A BS or MS program will teach you how to use the language to solve interesting and complicated problems. You could learn things like how to write an intelligent chess program or how to write a program to find the shortest route from one address to another. Just learning the mechanics of a language will not give you insight into solving these types of problems, which is what employers are looking for.

[lostinjersey]

Why stop at CC, go as far as you can! The more education you get, espicially in the technical world, the more money you will make. If you like the course in java, you will really like getting a BS in CS anyways! The great thing about getting a BS in CS is that you can go into a large number of technical fields.. because most of them need programmers! I am an electrical engineer, and lack java / c++ / object oriented programming knowledge, and I always kick myself in the butt for not taking a java or c++ class in school. I cannot believe how many software engineering positions there are on monster! Go on monster.com and search 'software engineer' and you should be blown away with the opportunities out there. It's totally worth it if you think you will enjoy a career programming. That's probably what you should be considering most, do you want to spend your whole life behind a computer, never really interacting with people!

[lostinjersey]

I completely agree with this, a BS in CS would be more to train your mind to think like a computer scientist. Learning things like object oriented programming, how your program is compiled on a computer, how pointers work, etc. should be your focus, not the actual syntax of the language that's the easy part to learn.

My suggestion is get a BS in Computer Science (or if you
already have a BS in a math related field you might be able to get into an MS program which would consist of roughly 10 courses and could be done at night or during the weekend)

A CS BS or MS program is not going to teach you how to program in any language (with the possible exception of the first one or two courses). Think of learning a language as learning to use a tool. A BS or MS program will teach you how to use the language to solve interesting and complicated problems. You could learn things like how to write an intelligent chess program or how to write a program to find the shortest route from one address to another. Just learning the mechanics of a language will not give you insight into solving these types of problems, which is what employers are looking for.

[yankeeyosh]

What's sad is that I think I forgot all the Java I learned...oh well, back to the drawing board :neutral:

[Tenshi28]

I am going to take a little Java course for begginers next September and I am really, really, really hoping I'll like it so maybe it means the beggining of some future change in my career. Then again, if I like it it's going to take me forever to learn enough to actually think about working in that field.


Oh well, I am excited anyway!