I feel like college didn't train me for a specific job

[PVD99]

Yes, I know we go to college to become well rounded and intelligent...but we need jobs to survive. I just feel like you really need some skill that makes you stand out to get a high paying job these days. College just kind of semi-trains you on a bunch of different stuff(mine did)but you don't really become an expert in something. It just seems as though most jobs want someone who can do THIS, THIS, and THIS. That's why I'm having trouble, because I can do a lot of little things...but I am not expert in antyhing. I guess I have to pick something.

[wordsmith]

Depends on where you go. I went to a liberal arts college, which are pretty upfront about it being a wholistic educational approach, humanities being what they are, and offers opps for critical thinking/analytical skills being honed while exploring a variety of intellectual pursuits, blah ditty blah...it works fine for me. It's by nature a place where you're encouraged to dabble in a broad range of things, rather than one intensive focal area. That's actually what appealed to me most about it, to be honest.

Trade school is more for hands-on job training. And internships, theoretically, though often in internships, you may just get busywork instead of useful skills applications.

[cheshrcarol]

My school was also a liberal arts school. So I did have to take a wide variety of classes - some useful in my career some not. But it's not your college's reponsibility to make your tailor fit to an employer. Their responsibility is to give you degree with your chosen concentration. That's it.

This isn't just directed at PVD, but I'm getting really tired of all the people who complain that college didn't prepare them for life, jobs, whatever. Our generation needs to take responsibility. When I picked out a school I looked at graduation rates, at what kind of internship programs they had, and what the curriculum involved (practical knowledge vs. theoretical). My school required that internships have actual work experience. Not getting coffee or making copies. If you don't have the skills you need don't blame someone else, just go out and work on getting them.

[MollyMe]

College is not a glorified trade school and I know many people who think it is. I majored in engineering, which would seem very job specific but it really isn't. I learned to solve problems, to find resources to solve problems, and a brief overview of several topics. I use very little of the actual coursework in my job, but I do use the methodologies.

[MuBetaPsi_Xi]

This is funny - my fiance and I have been having this same argument on and off since at least last summer! He said the whole thing about how college isn't a trade school. I disagree with him - I was always taught that college is an investment, and in my mind when you make an investment you have the expectation of a financial reward, so college better d*mn well train you for a job.

The funny thing is, he majored in computer science and he's a software engineer. I majored in Communications and I work in insurance. I don't understand why he thinks that your studies in college shouldn't train you for your job, because that's exactly what happened to him. He said that no, his computer classes didn't really teach him anything at all, and that he basically picked up all of his skills from the computer-related jobs he held in college and afterward.

We both graduated from Catholic liberal arts colleges.

[wordsmith]

To clarify, I don't say trade school as a slam. I don't consider trade school to be lesser. I do consider it to be a place where you gain hands-on applicable experience at a craft that's directly marketable in field of your choosing. It's incredibly useful. So I wouldn't consider college "glorified trade school," because that implies that the two are on a "this is better than that" continuum. They're two completely different sorts of training and preparing. Two different focuses.

I also agree with Carol that it's something you know when you're in school. I didn't sit through classes on Shakespeare going, "Wow...when I graduate from here, I'm going to be so prepared for a cubicle job and understand all the ins and outs of office procedure and politics, know how negotiate salary raises, and have all the specifics of a given job NAILED!"

What I did learn was how to make things work for myself. How to set goals and put in the necessary effort to achieve them. What it takes to go the extra mile, not because somebody's making you, but because it's a goal you set for yourself and important to follow through on. The subject matter, while interesting to me, wasn't the real lesson. It was the whole package. The taking responsibility to do my best at the tasks before me, budgeting my time well enough to facilitate that, showing up like a responsible person and getting the most I could out of my classes, the knowing what avenues to take to meet the challenges before me, the using the people and resources that were available to me to excel. And, really, that's what it's all about in the professional world, too.

[Bruiser]

I went to school for meteorology. In addition to meteorological concepts, I learned a lot about computers, software, database queries, internet data mining, etc. It is these ancillary skills that I now rely on to make a living. College does prepare you for a job, just not always in the way you would expect.

[MuBetaPsi_Xi]

I didn't mean to rip on trade school either. The debate with my fiance began because we were reading an article about the journalism school at his almna mater. The article said that when the school was first founded, some of the students requested that classes be offered in typing and shorthand, in addition to the traditional academic classes. The dean of the journalism school refused to do this, saying that he wasn't the dean of a trade school. I said that I thought that typing and shorthand classes SHOULD have been offered, and my fiance said no, the dean was correct. My fiance said that if these skills were necessary, then the students should have learned them on their own time.

[SunDevil]

College is supposed to teach you how to learn new skills very quickly. Some trades (Physics, chemistry, etc) have very defined knowledge base. In 50 years, I doubt computers, biotech and other emerging technology will look anything like what we have today. There would have been no way college would have been able to prepare me to work on the second work assignment I had (the technology doesn't exist yet, we were making it up as we went along).

That being said, the college can't make someone perfect for any and every job out there. Let's say employers are looking for Java programmers in large numbers, so the college will modernized and adapt. It might not be the best job, but it is a job. I would have like it if in the last year of my undergrad, I got to pick an area that I could focus on though. Maybe it is robotics, database, p2p, business front-ends, embedded systems, etc... Where you have one project that you work on for a semester to show that you know your stuff. Electives are supposed to do that, but there are so many requirements anymore it is tough to focus on one thing.

[RudeGirl]

I don't understand why he thinks that your studies in college shouldn't train you for your job, because that's exactly what happened to him. He said that no, his computer classes didn't really teach him anything at all, and that he basically picked up all of his skills from the computer-related jobs he held in college and afterward.

We both graduated from Catholic liberal arts colleges.

With computers, you really can learn more on your own and on the job than in class. Many jobs are so business and IT-oriented, too, that the theory you learn in school often isn't as important as negotiation skills, application and integration of different working methods and systems, creative thinking, and so forth.

I'm someplace between your viewpoint and your boyfriend's. College was a waste of money, and it didn't teach me shit about the real world, and I feel that, for the financial and time investment, it should have been more helpful. On the other hand, I didn't expect much from college, so I wasn't surprised to find the job market as it was upon graduating. If something's really important to me, I read/learn it in my free time. I don't want to hear what the professor thinks about the subject, or do the homework he wants me to do, which isn't applicable in any practical way, anyway, to learn.

Mostly nowadays, college is marketed to kids as both this "lifetime investment in learning," and a "huge year-round expensive party than your parents aren't around for." I found it to be closer to the latter; because a public library card is also a lifetime investment in learning, and it's free.

[winneythepooh7]

My school was also a liberal arts school. So I did have to take a wide variety of classes - some useful in my career some not. But it's not your college's reponsibility to make your tailor fit to an employer. Their responsibility is to give you degree with your chosen concentration. That's it.

This isn't just directed at PVD, but I'm getting really tired of all the people who complain that college didn't prepare them for life, jobs, whatever. Our generation needs to take responsibility. When I picked out a school I looked at graduation rates, at what kind of internship programs they had, and what the curriculum involved (practical knowledge vs. theoretical). My school required that internships have actual work experience. Not getting coffee or making copies. If you don't have the skills you need don't blame someone else, just go out and work on getting them.


I agree with this as well. I think the reason that many new grads do not get good jobs post-graduation is because they are not well-prepared. Not everyone, but some. Not everyone chooses to do internships or work a job in their chosen field while in college and/or graduate school, or while they are out on breaks. (This is the biggest piece of advice I offer people still in school to do). Plus, I don't think a lot of new grads really use resources at their disposal to really see the reality of the working world (ie. networking with alumnae or others in their field who do have adequate knowledge, or if they do, actually TAKING their advice ;) ). I feel that many new grads are coming out of college with very poor communication skills. Working in any profession involves relating to others, and being able to remain professional about things that may irk you, dealing with a difference of ideas and opinions, etc. and not going completely ape-shit. The real working world requires new grads to realize that yes, there are people smarter then they are, because, they have been doing it longer. I also think that a lot of people don't want to start at the bottom to work their way up. I see this first hand with several people I know who are chronically unemployed. I am a strong believer that gaps in one's resume are bad for future employment. It's one thing if you get laid off and have worked for awhile, but it's different if you've only done two internships and a temp job and you are applying to be Director of Company XYZ. I also don't understand how many people go from undergrad to graduate school with never having worked a day in their life, and maybe doing a mediocre internship here and there, but are SO CONFIDENT they are going to walk in and become the GOD of their chosen profession. GO FIGURE!

[RudeGirl]

This isn't just directed at PVD, but I'm getting really tired of all the people who complain that college didn't prepare them for life, jobs, whatever. Our generation needs to take responsibility.

It is entirely possible to take responsibility for one's life and still see college as a crock of shit.

College doesn't prepare you for real life. The question is, did you really expect it to? Internships don't, either. Nothing prepares you for "real life." Life needs to be lived.

[winneythepooh7]

It is entirely possible to take responsibility for one's life and still see college as a crock of shit.

College doesn't prepare you for real life. The question is, did you really expect it to? Internships don't, either. Nothing prepares you for "real life." Life needs to be lived.


Actually, depending on the nature of your program, and the nature of your internship, an internship can in fact prepare you, and give you a pretty strong background towards future employment. In Social Work school, for example, you must complete 2 full-year internships. The placements are researched thoroughly by the field placement director of the school before a student is placed there. During your time at each placement, your field instructor meets with you and your advisor several times per year, and communicates regularly via mail and phone. The only major difference is that you are sheltered somewhat from real-life working experiences Social Workers deal with on a day to day basis. And I always say, that what you get out of your internship, as well as put into it is up to you. This is even true of work and entry-level positions in one's chosen field. Not every profession requires as intensive training as I went through, however, there are some more driven individuals in those other professions who go above and beyond their call of duty so to speak, who will probably fair much better when it comes to "real life" because of this reason. I think those who don't take initiative are going to be much further behind.

[yankeeyosh]

Actually, depending on the nature of your program, and the nature of your internship, an internship can in fact prepare you, and give you a pretty strong background towards future employment. In Social Work school, for example, you must complete 2 full-year internships. The placements are researched thoroughly by the field placement director of the school before a student is placed there. During your time at each placement, your field instructor meets with you and your advisor several times per year, and communicates regularly via mail and phone. The only major difference is that you are sheltered somewhat from real-life working experiences Social Workers deal with on a day to day basis. And I always say, that what you get out of your internship, as well as put into it is up to you. This is even true of work and entry-level positions in one's chosen field. Not every profession requires as intensive training as I went through, however, there are some more driven individuals in those other professions who go above and beyond their call of duty so to speak, who will probably fair much better when it comes to "real life" because of this reason. I think those who don't take initiative are going to be much further behind.

Well, an internship for social work is a bit different from one for an undergrad that you do during the summers. But I agree, internships are important, and for most fields today, there is no question that you must intern before you graduate, or else you'll have a hell of a time finding a job when you graduate (someone told me the other day that maybe I should intern somewhere to get into cat modelling...I have an MS and I'm working a full time job. How the heck do I get an internship???? :confused: :confused: )

[winneythepooh7]

Well, you do have actual working experience under your belt, Mark. That's a lot more than some new grads these days.

[yankeeyosh]

Well, you do have actual working experience under your belt, Mark. That's a lot more than some new grads these days.

Yeah, but it's not "direct" working experience...they want someone who actually ran a specific model or knows about this and that specifically.

So you're saying that some of these people who are applying don't have anything in terms of internships? I could imagine that 10 years ago, but today??? No way...

[cheshrcarol]

It is entirely possible to take responsibility for one's life and still see college as a crock of shit.I'm talking about the people who go on and on about "college lied to me, college was supposed to do X, blah blah blah." IMO, if you think college was a "crock of shit" then you went to the wrong one.

[yankeeyosh]

I'm talking about the people who go on and on about "college lied to me, college was supposed to do X, blah blah blah." IMO, if you think college was a "crock of shit" then you went to the wrong one.

No, it wasn't college itself that was a crock of shit, it was the whole "self esteem movement" that we went through prior to college in that was a crock of shit. The movement that said that going to college WILL be the answer, and that if you go to the best college, it will be worth its weight in gold. Well, it's been five years, and I'm still waiting for that gold. Haven't given up yet, but I think there are too many people graduating school now that realize that what their teachers and guidance counselors and parents told them really wasn't exactly true...

[yankeeyosh]

I went to school for meteorology. In addition to meteorological concepts, I learned a lot about computers, software, database queries, internet data mining, etc. It is these ancillary skills that I now rely on to make a living. College does prepare you for a job, just not always in the way you would expect.

Yup...we're both meteorologists who aren't doing meteorology :) But it's good that you're using a lot of the skills that you acquired in your program. If you can harness those skills into something that's not exactly related but is close, all the more power to ya...

This is funny - my fiance and I have been having this same argument on and off since at least last summer! He said the whole thing about how college isn't a trade school. I disagree with him - I was always taught that college is an investment, and in my mind when you make an investment you have the expectation of a financial reward, so college better d*mn well train you for a job.

The funny thing is, he majored in computer science and he's a software engineer. I majored in Communications and I work in insurance. I don't understand why he thinks that your studies in college shouldn't train you for your job, because that's exactly what happened to him. He said that no, his computer classes didn't really teach him anything at all, and that he basically picked up all of his skills from the computer-related jobs he held in college and afterward.

Ditto here...same thing...if you can convince your potential employer that even though you don't have X degree, but you know Y, then that could definitely help. The hardest thing is convincing the hiring manager...Frankly, direct experience is probably 10 times more important than the degree.

However, it's different for grad school. If you or any of your family/friends are going to grad school, they BETTER realize that what field they're studying is what they likely going to do when they leave. I mean, if you study a certain subject as an undergrad, there's a whole slew of things you can do with that. But if you get a master's or professional degree, and you send a resume to a company that's not related to what you're studying (or close), they're going to really going to wonder if you're serious (I'm an exception since (a) I had 3 years' prior experience in pension administration, (b) in the financial sector, pension administration is probably the lowest paying profession and (c) I did a damn good BS job convincing them that I was no longer interested in meteorology).

[wordsmith]

I personally learned plenty at college, both academically and otherwise. And had experiences I'd otherwise never have gotten to have. Not a waste at all. I refused to waste my time or my money, and squeezed everything I could out of it. No regrets, there.

[RudeGirl]

I'm talking about the people who go on and on about "college lied to me, college was supposed to do X, blah blah blah." IMO, if you think college was a "crock of shit" then you went to the wrong one.

Dear Carol:

IMO, college is not a place where people actually go to learn. This phenomenon is increasingly apparent as the school's price tag climbs.

RG

[RudeGirl]

No, it wasn't college itself that was a crock of shit, it was the whole "self esteem movement" that we went through prior to college in that was a crock of shit. The movement that said that going to college WILL be the answer, and that if you go to the best college, it will be worth its weight in gold.

Mark, I was just talking to WB about that.

When I was a freshman in high school, we had a self-esteem speaker come to school. He was a cross between a bad career advice book and Dr. Phil. Everyone loved him and his drivel. I wrote my journal essay the next week on what a fraud I found him to be. One of the key phrases I used was something along the lines of, "Looking into the mirror and saying 'I like myself' is not true self-esteem; it's an exercise in appearances." My teacher hated it. Hated. It. She said I was depressed, and wasn't trying, and so on.

This dude was a joke, meanwhile. No one can teach you self-esteem. You've either got it or you haven't. And whether you went to Harvard or Harvey's Clown College, college can't make you a learned person, or give you that self-esteem, for that matter, either.

[shimmer728]

I felt like I was very prepared for my journalism career when I graduated. Do I credit college for this? Only indirectly. Being a journalism student at a Big 10 university helped me land some good internships, which were great experience for me. We also had a decent student-run paper, where I learned a great deal.

As for the classes and all that bullshit? Waste of time, in my opinion. I didn't even want to go to college in the first place--I can remember whining to my parents when I was 16 and 17 that I didn't want to go away to school. They chalked this up to my teenage angst. *shrugs* Maybe, but I do wish I could have gotten away with not going. Journalism USED to be a trade you learned solely on the job--it didn't require a college degree. Not these days, though.

And as for the whole argument about being well-rounded--I've learned so much more about so many more different topics as a journalist than I EVER did as a college student. I'm constantly learning new things now. And I'm getting paid for it, instead of paying for it. :D

[shimmer728]

IMO, college is not a place where people actually go to learn. This phenomenon is increasingly apparent as the school's price tag climbs.


I tend to agree.

[yankeeyosh]

Dear Carol:

IMO, college is not a place where people actually go to learn. This phenomenon is increasingly apparent as the school's price tag climbs.

RG

It's a membership card. That's all it is. A very, very expensive membership card which in the end invites you to join millions of other "members" to clamor for jobs. It's simply a means to an end. Other than a select few, it is nearly impossible nowadays to find people who go to school (and even grad school) because they really want to. They do it because it's "hip", it's "required" or because of pressure. There are too many people in college and grad school who shouldn't be there (and on the contrary, there are too many people who are NOT in college and grad school but should be there...simply due to lack of funds)

[winneythepooh7]

I also think that you get out of college what you put into it. If you go there to be a bookworm and learn all you can, well, you are going to come out with lots of that information. However, many people do go away to party it up for the first major time ever in their life, as well, and you can't discredit that either as a learning experience. I think depending on one's major as well often determines what their job prospects will be post-college. But sometimes it also comes down to sheer luck, being in the right place at the right time, and knowing the right connections to get a good job after college. Also, everyone's definition of what a "good job is" is completely different. There were quite a few journalism majors in my sorority, and from what I know now, they are all doing pretty well for themselves. My school had a pretty good student paper and they probably spent more time doing that that any other "college activity". Their dedication seemed to have paid off well for them, down the road ;).

[J-girl]

I majored in computer science, and trust me the job interviews I went to - only 0.5% related to what I learnt in school and hence I was not motivated in applying to CS jobs anymore but I don't regret one bit of what I did in school.

But many kids in my graduating class went for internships through school at really good companies and they didnt have problem getting a job.

Anyways- yes I am tired of the whole "oh blah blah blah college didnt prepare me waw waw waw" :googly:

[wordsmith]

I also think that you get out of college what you put into it.

Totally agree. Like any other investment of time, money, etc., what you take out of it for the most part reflects what you're willing to put into it.

Also, for me, it was more about opportunities than anything else. I'm pretty well-read and informed, and came to college with a stronger knowledge base in my areas of interest than may people probably leave with, because I'm a bookworm nerd and have always been pretty well-rounded. Did I need college academically? Most likely, not really. But it was more about the people it put me in contact with, the things I was exposed to, and particularly the things I was involved in. I got some pretty cool opportunities to go all over the world with various performance groups, which are experiences I would never have otherwise had, and definitely wouldn't have been able to do due to expense, etc. It's easily my best spend time and money ever. And I definitely feel that the majority of people around me did, in fact, go to learn. Those who didn't failed and or dropped out.

[Bruiser]

No, it wasn't college itself that was a crock of shit, it was the whole "self esteem movement" that we went through prior to college in that was a crock of shit. The movement that said that going to college WILL be the answer, and that if you go to the best college, it will be worth its weight in gold. Well, it's been five years, and I'm still waiting for that gold. Haven't given up yet, but I think there are too many people graduating school now that realize that what their teachers and guidance counselors and parents told them really wasn't exactly true...

I never bought into the "go to the best school possible" crap, and I'm glad I didn't. I took a lot of heat from my peers, saying I aimed low (going to a state school) but my parents and Guidance Counselor told me to go where I was happy and felt that I fit in.

[wordsmith]

A motivated student can excel even at a crappy, nonchallenging school, and a screwoff student can completely waste his or her time an an excellent, extraordinarily challenging school. It's more dependent upon the student than the reputation of the school or program, IMO.

Note, I'm NOT saying that state schools are crappy. Public or private doesn't necessarily have a bearing on quality of ed, and quality of ed depends greatly on what you personally put into it anyway.

[shimmer728]

I never bought into the "go to the best school possible" crap, and I'm glad I didn't. I took a lot of heat from my peers, saying I aimed low (going to a state school) but my parents and Guidance Counselor told me to go where I was happy and felt that I fit in.

I don't understand what's wrong with state schools, either.

Although paying extra to attend a state school out-of-state--as I did--probably wasn't that smart. :googly: And if I had to do it over again, I probably would go to a smaller--possibly private--school. But I'm not totally convinced that those so-called "good schools" provide that much better of an education. I think that once you get past the fancy Ivy League schools, which of course carry loads of clout, a college is a college.

[wordsmith]

I feel like you should go wherever is best suited to you, atmosphere-wise, program-wise, cost-ratio wise, whatever.

I ended up at a regional private liberal arts school because it was the best fit for me, and because they offered me a 75% free ride, so it was the best of all worlds. I didn't go for the supposed cache, because to be honest, the school's reputation for being academically demanding only matters to people familiar with it, and that's not many people outside a specific region. You should always pick the place that serves you personally best.

[winneythepooh7]

I went to a state school for undergrad (and it is the most applied-to state school in NYS) and a private school for grad. I think I got a quality education from both. And if I was able to get into the city school I wanted to go to for grad, I am sure I would have gotten an excellent education as well, since this school has an excellent reputation.

[summergold]

For me, college was an unbelievably good investment. I majored in Biology. A pretty general topic when you get right down to it, but that's because it was undergrad. You can't expect to get a highly specialized education in an undergrad setting. Graduate school is for that, IMO. I was, however, able to tailor my course load to certain biology topics that interested me. For instance, I'm not a fan of botany or marine biology, so I took anatomy, physiology, cell communication, etc. I also got an internship my senior year, and it definitely played a huge part in preparing me for the "real working world." It was because of the internship that I was able to have a job right after graduation. My question to the OP is that if you did have the opportunity to have training for a SPECIFIC job, would you have even known what you wanted that training in? and if you had that and wanted to change later on down the road, couldn't that specific training be seen as a detrement since you have no background in anything else?

[wordsmith]

That's a really good point. Any formal professional training I received in undergrad was through the education department and my student teaching, to become a high school language arts teacher. Is that what I went on to do? Nope. Just as is the case with many, I didn't go the route I thought I might. But my experiences in general prepared me well for making my way professionally in other fields, none the less.

[PVD99]

Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post. I am definitely more well-rounded from college. It was in no way a waste for me. I'm just saying I think college should teach skills that are more applicable to real world jobs. Perhaps in some majors they do. (like engineering or something)

[wordsmith]

Can I ask what you majored in, and what skills you feel you did obtain?

Because my major was in the humanities, about as lofty and ivory-towered a major as it gets, and I still have everyday applications of things I learned. I gained a ton of experience researching and writing, analyzing information and applying it to situations, etc., all of which is crucial to my work as a general assignment reporter and editor (not to mention generally useful in everyday life).

You can't look at it literally sometimes...do my approximately 3 million readings of Huck Finn play a role in my day to day life? Not directly, of course not. But scratch a little deeper, and it's VERY evident how my specific education directly benefits me in my job and life.

[summergold]

Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post. I am definitely more well-rounded from college. It was in no way a waste for me. I'm just saying I think college should teach skills that are more applicable to real world jobs. Perhaps in some majors they do. (like engineering or something)

I think that the reason that colleges don't do this is that most jobs are so subjective. Each employer expects something different from their employees. I got a job because I had a basis of knowledge (ie, undergrad degree), but the specifics of the job were something I learned as an employee. I think something that people often don't take full advantage of is that by having an undergrad degree, it shows that you took the initiative to further your education, that you sought out education and that you're willing to do that as an employee. In other words, never have the mindset that you just went because "that's what you're supposed to do."

[winneythepooh7]

Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post. I am definitely more well-rounded from college. It was in no way a waste for me. I'm just saying I think college should teach skills that are more applicable to real world jobs. Perhaps in some majors they do. (like engineering or something)

It's really hard to do this practically speaking in undergrad. Even in grad, for many people, a lot of it is only an introduction to their major. You really need to learn hands-on skills when you actually start working. Especially in my chosen profession. I learned a lot about theories and approaches to working with people, but every client is different. It really does come down to trial and error and not something that I read in a book or something that may have worked for someone else's client. As the days and years go by, I become a better Social Worker because I have gained more practical working experience. Can you imagine if I stayed in the same place and only thought about what I was told while in graduate school? I shudder to think! College is only a preparation for the world of work. It is up to as as individuals to always be learning and bettering ourselves. Plus every day at work, I am faced with new challenges and learning new things. People have a million different problems and issues, everything from medical to psychiatric to familial to substance abuse. There is no way that you could learn all of this in a couple of years of school. Plus, things are always changing due to technology, lack of funding, insurance issues, etc. etc. etc..............

[wordsmith]

There's no way for individual jobs to really BE anything other than a hands-on learning experience, in my opinion. You can prepare generally in ways that ready to you learn what you need to know once you get there, with a good broadly applicable knowledge base, hopefully, and that's about it.

When I started newpaper work, I had ZERO experience that was 100% related. I had TONS of writing experience, tons of experience in communicating professionally to various audiences via writing, and had held jobs that demanded I be good at face time with a wide range of individuals. But I'd never worked for a paper, never interviewed someone for a news article or feature story, never tried my hand at covering various events. But most of my skills easily transferred over into what I needed specifically for the job, and what needed to be honed was easily enough honed through just doing it. And just because I'd never done something before didn't mean I didn't know how. Common sense and just jumping in and trial and error got me a long way

[wordsmith]

I think something that people often don't take full advantage of is that by having an undergrad degree, it shows that you took the initiative to further your education, that you sought out education and that you're willing to do that as an employee. In other words, never have the mindset that you just went because "that's what you're supposed to do."

Totally agree. It ties in with what I was saying earlier about the whole experience of learning to take responsiblity to follow through, being self-disciplined, carrying projects through to fruition, planning my time wisely, making the necessary sacrifices to accomplish something of quality, etc....these are all things that taking advantage of a formal education definitely reinforced and gave me additional practice at. And it's extremely attractive to employers if you're a person who has adopted and demonstrated this attitude.

[winneythepooh7]

There's no way for individual jobs to really BE anything other than a hands-on learning experience, in my opinion. You can prepare generally in ways that ready to you learn what you need to know once you get there, with a good broadly applicable knowledge base, hopefully, and that's about it.

When I started newpaper work, I had ZERO experience that was 100% related. I had TONS of writing experience, tons of experience in communicating professionally to various audiences via writing, and had held jobs that demanded I be good at face time with a wide range of individuals. But I'd never worked for a paper, never interviewed someone for a news article or feature story, never tried my hand at covering various events. But most of my skills easily transferred over into what I needed specifically for the job, and what needed to be honed was easily enough honed through just doing it. And just because I'd never done something before didn't mean I didn't know how. Common sense and just jumping in and trial and error got me a long way

I agree. I would love to go into writing one day. It is pretty much a necessity, and goes hand in hand with my field. My problem is I don't really know how to go about it and I have no contacts in that field so it seems overwhelming to me to just jump into. What I am getting at though is that one's experiences as well as the good old common sense thing do get you a long way. This is why I always tell people to just do SOMETHING, even if it's entry level. If you have the common sense thing down, and are motivated, it's really easy to advance, especially within a company or an agency. Plus if you are actually working some place, it is much easier to make contacts at other companies and agencies, which, will open up opportunities for new jobs. It really amazes me how so many people haven't grasped this concept yet.

[Cole]

I never expected college to train me for work. But, then, I've never intended to have a traditional job in the corporate workforce, either. So that was fine with me. :)

It meant that I learned to think critically, write, and research well. I learned to look at the world from varying perspectives and understand the arguments of those I disagreed with. I learned how to have a good, intellectual conversation, make a point, and back myself up.

I also learned to speak two foreign languages, which isn't a bad skill set to have.

And then I ran two clubs, worked on several conferences, in studenta ffairs, and got a student job as a secretary which is probably the biggest credential that has been getting me work since I graduated.

College does not prepare you for life. You do.

As someone else said, gaining the experiences and skills you need is up to you to figure out - through internships, work experience, or training programs. I too find myself frustrated when I see these great jobs I'm not qualified for, but I know no college program could take care of that for me.

[wordsmith]

I also think that pretty much ANY type of work experience can be billed as marketable if you're smart about it. Even working summers in steel shipping and recieving in a factory provided me with marketable skills in organization, dealing with people, managing multiple projects, problem troubleshooting, etc.

[yankeeyosh]

I never bought into the "go to the best school possible" crap, and I'm glad I didn't. I took a lot of heat from my peers, saying I aimed low (going to a state school) but my parents and Guidance Counselor told me to go where I was happy and felt that I fit in.

Exactly...the problem is that over the past ten years, "brand name" has overtaken "fit" in terms of choosing a school in many circles...particularly in hyper-competitive environments. I've heard of people's friend's parents lambast them at the college choices they made or being so arrogant as to rub where their kid is going into their faces. I mean, a state school doesn't exactly mean you're doomed to fail. Look...if you're into psychology, the University of Minnesota has a great program. Music? Ball State. Heck, the best meteorology programs aren't found in the Ivy League (only Cornell has one, and frankly, from personal experience, it's not the best). They're found at FSU, Penn State, U-Wash, Colorado State, Texas A & M, etc. But elitism and the Name seems to be what's the name of the game.

One side note...since there are so many people who want to get into the brand name schools, admission standards to flagship state schools and even some second-tier state schools have skyrocketed since 1995 or so, when things really started getting competitive. Hence, you have kids with superhuman resumes who are scared they can't get into their local, modest state school.

[yankeeyosh]

I also think that pretty much ANY type of work experience can be billed as marketable if you're smart about it. Even working summers in steel shipping and recieving in a factory provided me with marketable skills in organization, dealing with people, managing multiple projects, problem troubleshooting, etc.

To an extent, it is. But in many fields, even entry level positions require DIRECT experience doing DIRECTLY what they want. Companies don't want to train...they want you to get off the ground running.

[wordsmith]

See, I don't live in a region where college name carries heavy clout (unless you're talking about spectator athletics, hah), nor do I or will I most likely ever work in a super competitive corporate field where it's going to come down to arbitrary stuff like alma maters. Also, here, one of the major state schools, University of Illinois, is considered to be quite elite in and of itself. Plenty would consider that school to be more prestigious and carry more weight than, say, my small private college (which is known primarily for its nursing program and its *badumb ching* choral music program).

[winneythepooh7]

To an extent, it is. But in many fields, even entry level positions require DIRECT experience doing DIRECTLY what they want. Companies don't want to train...they want you to get off the ground running.

It has been my experience in my particular field that many new grads don't want the entry-level positions. And there are plenty of 'em available. Yes, often you do need direct experience, however, if you can sell yourself well and are eager to learn, often employers will take a chance on you. It also comes down to what people consider "entry-level".

[wordsmith]

To an extent, it is. But in many fields, even entry level positions require DIRECT experience doing DIRECTLY what they want. Companies don't want to train...they want you to get off the ground running.

Just as you said, this also depends on the company and the field. I was hired with the understanding that I'd need to be trained. The only technical knowledge that goes with my job that I came in with was the ability to type in a word processing program. I had to be trained on our layout and design programs, on photography, the computer system, since its specific to the company, etc. in addition to learning how to be a reporter and all that good stuff. It was a given that I was coming in raw, needing training. So were all the other people who work here. There are companies and workplaces that are willing to train you in specifics.

[and1grad]

College does not prepare you for life. You do.
Thank you.

Its so tiring to hear people blame college for not placing them in a specific job. College helps you build a foundation. I also agree with the sentiments that if you feel that college wasted your time, you went to the wrong one. You wasted your own time. Dont lump those of us that value our college experience with you b/c you wasted your time and now think college is worthless. My college years were probably the most definitive and important years of my life. Isnt it a little much to expect college to make sure that YOU got everything you wanted out of it? I expected college to provide me the opportunity to get what I wanted out of it. Not to hold my hand throughout and then talk someone into hiring me.

[winneythepooh7]

Also many places like new people, so they can train them how THEY want them to be trained.

[PVD99]

It has been my experience in my particular field that many new grads don't want the entry-level positions. And there are plenty of 'em available. Yes, often you do need direct experience, however, if you can sell yourself well and are eager to learn, often employers will take a chance on you. It also comes down to what people consider "entry-level".


Are these the same people that go back to grad school right away because they can't find a job? How is it going to be any easier to find a job with only a grad degree and no experience...that's what I want to know. Unless they have some master plan that I don't know about...

[winneythepooh7]

Are these the same people that go back to grad school right away because they can't find a job? How is it going to be any easier to find a job with only a grad degree and no experience...that's what I want to know. Unless they have some master plan that I don't know about...

Yes, and no. Some people just feel that if they have a degree they are too good for certain positions. In the grand scheme of things, a BA degree is not really a big deal anymore. In my field too, since it is really flooded, a MSW doesn't hold a whole lot for certain positions either. It really is all about experience. As for your other question, I have no idea how people who have never worked think they are going to get some bad-ass job, even with a Master's/PhD/JD/whatever.............I think they are living a delusion...........

[yankeeyosh]

It has been my experience in my particular field that many new grads don't want the entry-level positions. And there are plenty of 'em available. Yes, often you do need direct experience, however, if you can sell yourself well and are eager to learn, often employers will take a chance on you. It also comes down to what people consider "entry-level".

Winney, I think you and every other QLCer who hasn't been hiding under a rock knows how eager I am :googly: Unfortunately, I have historically had a hard time selling myself, and that's a major strike against me.

[Cole]

I have no idea how people who have never worked think they are going to get some bad-ass job, even with a Master's/PhD/JD/whatever.............I think they are living a delusion...........

nooo kidding. Work experience is so much a part of it. How would people who have never worked even answer a question like "tell me about a time that you disagreed with a company policy, what you did about it and how that influenced your feelings about working there?" or "give me an example of an initiative that you started or did major work on. Was it adopted by the company?" etc.

Both questions I've gotten in interviews, along with several about interacting with co-workers, supervisors, etc.

[yankeeyosh]

nooo kidding. Work experience is so much a part of it. How would people who have never worked even answer a question like "tell me about a time that you disagreed with a company policy, what you did about it and how that influenced your feelings about working there?" or "give me an example of an initiative that you started or did major work on. Was it adopted by the company?" etc.

Both questions I've gotten in interviews, along with several about interacting with co-workers, supervisors, etc.

I've had those questions too, and every time, I had to BS my answer...since I had no recollection of any time when that happened. Or I refer back to my grad school research, and my advisor, since I've done a lot of independent work.

Basically, all the corporate work I've done has been just given to me, and I've had no real motivation to develop "creative" ways of doing something

[RudeGirl]

Dont lump those of us that value our college experience with you b/c you wasted your time and now think college is worthless. My college years were probably the most definitive and important years of my life. Isnt it a little much to expect college to make sure that YOU got everything you wanted out of it?

No one is lumping anyone. On this board, it's very easy to see who's for college and who's against college. This topic has been discussed in countless threads, and, in fact, most posters have regurgiatated their points for --or against-- college verbatum from thread to thread. I'm guilty of this, and, in fact, most of us are.

I'm sorry if it offends you that I saw college as 13th grade. The school I went to might have been the wrong school, but it was also the school that paid me wads of cash to attend it. Me, being a cheapskate, can't really complain; after all, I wasted their money, not mine. And putting in time to get a piece of paper to acquire earning power isn't so bad. I have the reast of my life to learn the way I want to.

[winneythepooh7]

No one is lumping anyone. On this board, it's very easy to see who's for college and who's against college. This topic has been discussed in countless threads, and, in fact, most posters have regurgiatated their points for --or against-- college verbatum from thread to thread. I'm guilty of this, and, in fact, most of us are.

I'm sorry if it offends you that I saw college as 13th grade. The school I went to might have been the wrong school, but it was also the school that paid me wads of cash to attend it. Me, being a cheapskate, can't really complain; after all, I wasted their money, not mine. And putting in time to get a piece of paper to acquire earning power isn't so bad. I have the reast of my life to learn the way I want to.

Just out of curiosity what was your major and what do you now do for a living?

[RudeGirl]

I majored in 2D art/design. Now, I do graphics and newspapery stuff. They money ain't great, but the degree helped.

Check PM. ;)

[winneythepooh7]

I just read it and replied. And I can see where you are coming from. As I stated to you, I went to a school that was very artsy. There was also a large divide amongst "those types" of students and your "traditional student" majoring in business or something of the like. I know people who were torn amongst two very different groups of people because of their major in the arts/theatre/whatever it was vs. say, the sorority and frat boy crowd, of which they were also a part of, if that makes sense? My boyfriend who also is very artsy and creative dropped out of college after a year because it wasn't for him. He even tried community college after that but just didn't like it. He owns his own business now and is doing better than me financially, and I have a Master's! But his line of work is also harder, and not as guaranteed, if that makes sense, as well.............

[RudeGirl]

But his line of work is also harder, and not as guaranteed, if that makes sense, as well.............

It does make sense. Many creative fields are flooded, and newspaper circulation is declining. Business definitely would have been more practical, but it wound up being something I taught myself, too.

As for the cliques, truth be told, art kids are possibly more pretentious and insular than other groups. They have a very weird elitism about them, and I actually didn't make friends with many kids in the department. Most of my friends were older (not in school), from work, or -- and this isn't hard to see -- social science majors. :)

[AznHisoka]

College, in many respects does do a poor job of training peeps for a job. The number 1 complaint about college graduates is just that: school didn't prepare them at all for a job. It is true, that one has to take matters into their own hands to get what they want out of college, but there are some aspects of school that is just plain useless. How many times have you been told to read chapters from a textbook of stuff that the professor didn't even go over, or forced to memorize some table? All you college kids reading this thread, what assignment are you doing now? Will you find it useful after a year, or are you just doing it so you can pass the class? College mostly teaches you to obey orders.

[Deadend]

Ok newsflash, university is NOT SUPPOSED to be a vocational school. If you wanted that you should have gone to community colledge. Taken cooking or automotive repair, or plumbing. You wouldn't have been short of money to make.

My degree focusses on the environmental side of chemical engineering. You'd think that'd be pretty specific right? No way! You think oil refining is exactly like steel making? Or chemical production like environmental remidiation? Not much. I could be helping to design natural gas wells or running data collection systems in auto production. Sky is wide upon. Horribly horribly open.

[yankeeyosh]

College, in many respects does do a poor job of training peeps for a job. The number 1 complaint about college graduates is just that: school didn't prepare them at all for a job. It is true, that one has to take matters into their own hands to get what they want out of college, but there are some aspects of school that is just plain useless. How many times have you been told to read chapters from a textbook of stuff that the professor didn't even go over, or forced to memorize some table? All you college kids reading this thread, what assignment are you doing now? Will you find it useful after a year, or are you just doing it so you can pass the class? College mostly teaches you to obey orders.

It's true...I mean, you spend four years inside an ivory tower, and everything is so structured. You know what you have to read, you know what you have to write, you know what you have to do, period. And you have TA's and profs with office hours, who people go to time and again to get guidance from. In the real world, often time, it's sink or swim. Sure, you may be lucky and have a good mentor, and I seriously wish more companies have better mentorship programs, but your supervisors have their own work to do, and they don't have time to guide you every step of the way. College, and society in general, really should teach students to be more self-reliant, especially as the parent-child co-dependency factor rapidly increases...

[and1grad]

I think people are coming up with a lot of bullshit reasons to complain about nothing. School didnt prepare you for a job b/c you had to do something you didnt see the value in? I dont know how many of you actually have a job but if not, I guess you'll be surprised to see that happen there too. This last complaint about college not leaving students stranded entirely...what? Whats next? I hate that college had dorms b/c in real life you might not have roommates?

[EmberMae]

I guess I just feel like I was lied to. I was a kid. I didn't know any better. I didn't know anything about how the world worked. I didn't realize it's all about who you know and I didn't realize that grades didn't matter. In my family, you went to college. That was what you did. College supposedly meant a better life. It's not the only reason, of course. I wanted to learn. I chose a major I was interested in, and I wasn't thinking about jobs or where the opportunities were. I didn't know. I'd been told countless times that it doesn't matter where you went to college or what you majored in, companies like seeing that you went, you learned analytical skills, independence, working hard, etc. But...it doesn't seem that way. I wasn't expecting my degree to give me all the specific skills I would need on the job. I expected to learn those on the job. I expected college to help me in being desirable to employers. It didn't.

I did everything I thought I was supposed to. I did internships, although one of them was just an excuse for a well-known company to get clerical help for free. I couldn't find a job. If I would have just gotten a clerical job right out of high school, I'd be better off than I am now. I'm now looking for clerical jobs that don't require college, because that's the only thing I seem to be remotely qualified for (English degree, writing-related internships). I taught for half a year and hated it. So here I am.

Sometimes I wish I would have gone to a larger more well-known state school. I went to a small private liberal arts college, and employers didn't recruit there like they tend to at larger universities.

I wish I would have majored in something practical where there are entry-level job openings.

I wish someone would have told me how to find an entry-level job (if indeed, there is such a thing anymore).

I wish I would have not worked as hard in college. It's hard for me because I'm a perfectionist, and if I'm satisfied with my work it's an "A." But I spent most of college working my ass off, thinking that eventually it would pay off. I'm afraid it never will.

I learned some valuable/interesting things in college, but many classes/assignments I hated. And I don't like writing 15 page research papers. I just don't. I don't like reading academic journals. They are pompous, convoluted, and give me a headache. There is much learning I would still like to do. Sometimes I want to go back to school because it feels safe. I want to believe that if I just get the "right" degree, I will be able to find a job where I can use my brain and where I feel valued. In college, I know what is expected of me. In college, If I work hard, my work is recognized. But, it is far too expensive, and I don't want to be taking classes that I don't want to take or doing assignments that are meaningless to me. Although I love to learn, the only real reason I'd be going back to college at this point would be to find that degree that will help me get a decent job, which makes me apprehensive because, what if it doesn't?

I think college is becoming far, far too expensive for what you get, and sadly it's becoming practically a requirement for positions it shouldn't be required for. Also, it seems like so many companies don't want to do any on the job training anymore; they want you to have experience at the exact same position.

I'm sorry for the length of this post, but this topic is very pertinent to the questions I've been asking myself lately, and the bitter disillusionment which I have. I was expecting my life to go very differently than it has since college, and I'm trying to figure out what I did wrong.

[winneythepooh7]

You probably did nothing wrong. I think it's a natural life reaction to get out of college and not have all of it figured out quite yet. Plus, it is just a fact of life that some people have their shit together more than others. AND, going along with what And1 is talking about, people are ALWAYS going to try to find SOMETHING to blame when things aren't going exactly as they want or planned in their life. For some people, that complaint is "college didn't prepare me for a job or for life in general".

[shimmer728]

I'm actually pretty satisfied with my career, so no complaints there. I guess my beef with college is that it does seem to be a lot of horseshit mixed in with the practical knowledge. Journalism should be a two-year program. If that.

[winneythepooh7]

College was college. Just a small, fun chapter of my life. My life has changed and I have moved on. There is no sense sitting here having any kind of regrets because, like so many other things in my life, it's in my past, and the past is the past, and I can't change that now..........

[winneythepooh7]

It does make sense. Many creative fields are flooded, and newspaper circulation is declining. Business definitely would have been more practical, but it wound up being something I taught myself, too.

As for the cliques, truth be told, art kids are possibly more pretentious and insular than other groups. They have a very weird elitism about them, and I actually didn't make friends with many kids in the department. Most of my friends were older (not in school), from work, or -- and this isn't hard to see -- social science majors. :)

One of my best friend's in my sorority while in school was a theatre major. She used to catch holy hell from the other theatre people she was friend's with pre-sorority for pledging, and not devoting all of her time with them anymore. They used to totally trash us ;). But I think in general, it can be any group that does this kind of thing. We had some journalism majors who spent a great deal of time on the student paper. They used to experience the same thing when the devoted time to the sorority. But then again, it could also be the anti-Greek phenemonon ;).

[yankeeyosh]

As for the cliques, truth be told, art kids are possibly more pretentious and insular than other groups. They have a very weird elitism about them, and I actually didn't make friends with many kids in the department. Most of my friends were older (not in school), from work, or -- and this isn't hard to see -- social science majors.

Mmm...not in my experience. Undergrad, there were no cliques. But in grad school, you could bet your bottom dollar that there were cliques. Either you were in, or they don't want to know you. It's hard to say what divided the cliques...I used to think that it depended on whether or not you were on the Ph. D. track or not, but now I don't know...all I know is that I had my own group, and everyone else had their own, and neither the twain shall meet.

[WeirdBrake]

Mmm...not in my experience. Undergrad, there were no cliques. But in grad school, you could bet your bottom dollar that there were cliques.

That was my experience, too! College didn't seem cliquish at all. Law school? VERY cliquish! In First Year, we quickly formed our little tribal alliances. Law school was more like high school than college.

[wordsmith]

Loosely, there were cliques at my college...nothing like earlier education, but the campus was sort of divided between north side/ south side...the south side residence halls were closest to the art, music, and theatere buildings, and the north side dorms were adjacent to the athletic complex and fields, so the artsy folk tended to live southside and the jocks were northsiders.

Of course, this was pretty loose. I was in all fine arts, and I spent half my undergrad years living on the north side, because that's where I was an RA. And naturally, art majors go to the gym, too, and even *gasp* play sports...and a hockey player was our best Shakesperean actor, come to think of it...so you COULD live wherever you wanted...but that split was a campus joke of sorts.

Still, I didn't find undergrad to really be cliquish.

[MetFanL]

I don't have time to read this whole thread, but I just want to say one thing. I NEVER thought college was going to prepare me for a job -- I went into it b/c college prepared me for LIFE. I came out of there well-rounded. That's all I wanted. It gave me four more years of education to be a better person, not necessarily a better employee. It gave me some knowledge to take into the workforce, of course, but not everything. Some stuff, you're going to have to figure out for yourself. Who ever gave you the impression that that wouldn't be the case?

[yankeeyosh]

That was my experience, too! College didn't seem cliquish at all. Law school? VERY cliquish! In First Year, we quickly formed our little tribal alliances. Law school was more like high school than college.

A lot of it depends on the size of the program too. For undergrad, there were maybe 50 u-grads and 5 g-students, so there was no room for cliques. All the undergrads knew the grads and vice versa, and it was nice camaraderie. In g-school, we had close to 80 grad students and 150 or so undergrads, so naturally, there wasn't that close-knit group. I probably knew about five undergrads by name, and only because two were working in research labs, two were on the FSU grad school track, and another was president of the AMS chapter.

[wordsmith]

A small school and small programs def. had a lot to do with lack of cliquishness. Everybody just knew everybody...it was the equivalent of a small-town community. Even people you might not have gotten along with in another context, you found yourself getting to know and liking okay, because it was such a tigh-knit community. One of the perks of going to a small college for me, and obviously not for everyone. But a sense of community has always been a priority with me. Some people could care less about that at school, but I liked it.

[cameralady]

I guess my beef with college is that it does seem to be a lot of horseshit mixed in with the practical knowledge. Journalism should be a two-year program. If that.

I agree.

There were a number of people from my school who got into the journalism field, despite the fact that we don't have a formal journalism program. However, we do have a damn good student newspaper. :)


Should college prepare you for a job? Not in the strict sense of the word. However, someone should gently burst college students' little bubble of naivete re: life after college...maybe like a series of programs through the campus career services office.

[winneythepooh7]

I agree.

There were a number of people from my school who got into the journalism field, despite the fact that we don't have a formal journalism program. However, we do have a damn good student newspaper. :)


Should college prepare you for a job? Not in the strict sense of the word. However, someone should gently burst college students' little bubble of naivete re: life after college...maybe like a series of programs through the campus career services office.


What I don't understand is why when so many college students and new grads have a bunch of resources at their fingertips (ie. alumnae like me ;) ), how come they don't reach out to us for support on the job search? Instead you see a ton of emails going back and forth about them being jobless or having to do some stupid little job they hate.............AND when you actually have people that come forward to offer support, they just act dumb and mute
:googly:

[cameralady]

What I don't understand is why when so many college students and new grads have a bunch of resources at their fingertips (ie. alumnae like me ;) ), how come they don't reach out to us for support on the job search? Instead you see a ton of emails going back and forth about them being jobless or having to do some stupid little job they hate.............AND when you actually have people that come forward to offer support, they just act dumb and mute
:googly:

My school has an alumni network too. I know when I first graduated from college, I would have been too intimidated to contact such a person from the alumni network. ("What would I say to him/her?") I know that sounds dumb, but it's true.

[winneythepooh7]

My school has an alumni network too. I know when I first graduated from college, I would have been too intimidated to contact such a person from the alumni network. ("What would I say to him/her?") I know that sounds dumb, but it's true.

But what if they are people that you have access to from a social circle or alumnae association, even if only online? I also try to think about my own younger sister, who graduated college last year. I think when you are 21 and coming out of college for the first time, you often have the mentality that you know it all and can conquer the world with no one else's help.

[dengeist]

To me college is just another hoop to jump through before you get out in the real world. Personally outside of a few specialized things like law, medical, engineering and maybe accounting I or you or anyone else could do a job without training. That's how it used to be, if you had a college degree in anything opportunities were opened in a wide variety of fields because you really start learning a job when you work the job. It's not like that today, doors are closed to you depending on your route in college, even though you really learn by doing.

[shimmer728]

To me college is just another hoop to jump through before you get out in the real world. Personally outside of a few specialized things like law, medical, engineering and maybe accounting I or you or anyone else could do a job without training. That's how it used to be, if you had a college degree in anything opportunities were opened in a wide variety of fields because you really start learning a job when you work the job. It's not like that today, doors are closed to you depending on your route in college, even though you really learn by doing.

I absolutely concur 100%.

And that's how I looked at college--as something I had to do before I could do what I REALLY wanted to do. I thought it sucked, but I didn't have much of a choice.