I went to college for this????!!!!!!!

[lovesoon1207]

*I just typed this up at my opendiary and felt like sharing.It's me venting about life after college*

I'm so pissed off because I have a college degree and I am working at a bank.You don't need a degree to work at the bank.But here I am because I can't find a job in psych.I can't believe that someone who graduated magna cum laude and with honors from the psych dept can't find a job.I worked my butt off and for what.

And it's not just me either.All I have to do is talk to my friends and see that they are in a similar position.I have a friend who got her teaching degree and is working at Kohl's because she can't find a job in her field. Or I go to www.quarterlifecrisis.com and read about others who are in the same situation as me.Settling for whatever job is around just so the bills can be paid.This country is wasting all its talents.People are graduating and not being able to find jobs using their degrees.It really is sad.

Nobody prepared me for this.Nobody told me that it would take me like a year to find a job in my field.I believed the lie that after graduation I was going to find an awesome job and that I would be getting paid well for having a bachelor's degree. HA! That's the biggest joke ever.

When I was going to school,I was told there were jobs for a bachelor's degree in psych.Oh yeah...in theory...there are jobs that one can do with a bachelor's degree in psych but are they hiring is the question.I have gone on a few interviews in order to get a job in my field and none of them have panned out.I have begun to wonder is it me.What is going on here?They say they are looking for someone.I show them my interest.I'm like "woo hoo...I'm right here."I think "don't you see my resume...don't you see the hard work I've put into my schooling."What more do I have to do?I thought that I was doing the best thing possible for myself.I took extra classes in my major.I did an internship when surprisingly it wasn't even required.I graduated with a 3.9 in my major and a 3.8 overall.

They don't want to hire me because I don't have the experience in my field but how am I supposed to get that experience if you don't hire me.It really pisses me off that I see St.Barnabas Behavioral is still looking for an access specialist.I applied for that job and was declined the job offer.I fit all the minimum job requirements...I have the bachelor's degree and I am comfortable with heavy amounts of phonework.I showed my interest in the job.I told them the experience that I have.Everything seemed to be going smoothly.They told me that they wouldn't mind training me and that they understood the predicament of trying to find a job in the field.Finally,someone showing some empathy.Then,I was told "at this time an offer is not going to be made".I was shocked.I had to tell myself that something better will come along and that it is their loss.

I really have become such a cynical person.I do not trust this job market at all.Dana is going in to paralegaling.She says that there are jobs out there and I am like I have been told that one before.She does not have the same outlook that I do.I have been out in the workforce and therefore,have become jaded.Dana is graduating from college and still has that naivete that I once had.She believes that she's going to be able to pay off all her bills and debts in a few years.Just wait Dana and you will become just as cynical as I am.

*As a sidenote,I realize that a master's is the norm in the field of psych.However,my plan was to find a job in my field using my bachelor's degree and seeing if I liked the work and then continue on for my master's.It just seemed logical to do it that way.Why put more money towards an education when I'm not even sure I'm going to like the work?I would have hated to graduate with a master's degree and then found out that psych was not for me.All that time,energy,and money spent and then to find out I disliked what I did.All of this has turned me off to the field of psych.It's a shame because I could have been really good at this field but since the opportunity hasn't been presented,I am forced to look elsewhere such as paralegaling.*

[PVD99]

Do you need a degree to move into management at a bank?

[PVD99]

Nobody prepared me for this.Nobody told me that it would take me like a year to find a job in my field.I believed the lie that after graduation I was going to find an awesome job and that I would be getting paid well for having a bachelor's degree. HA! That's the biggest joke ever.

I would also like to know who is feeding people these ideas. In order to be hired somewhere these days, you usually need more than just a degree. That's just the way it has been for a few years now. Everyone has a Bachelor's degree so they're not worth much anymore. What type of job did you expect to be doing with a psychology degree? If you want to be a therapist you may have to go to grad school, but I'm not sure about that.

I think "don't you see my resume...don't you see the hard work I've put into my schooling."What more do I have to do?I thought that I was doing the best thing possible for myself.I took extra classes in my major.I did an internship when surprisingly it wasn't even required.I graduated with a 3.9 in my major and a 3.8 overall.

Did you network with anyone at your internship? Could you get a job back there? That's what I had to do. I feel your pain though, most recent grads have a hard time finding work because they don't have any professional experience. Employers want to see experience and make sure the person is capable of the job before they invest loads of money in them. In my opinion, college is like a 4 year long job. It many times is even harder than a job, so in that case I don't see the employer's logic.

[yankeeyosh]

I would also like to know who is feeding people these ideas. In order to be hired somewhere these days, you usually need more than just a degree. That's just the way it has been for a few years now. Everyone has a Bachelor's degree so they're not worth much anymore. What type of job did you expect to be doing with a psychology degree? If you want to be a therapist you may have to go to grad school, but I'm not sure about that.

Agreed. Competition has become incredibly fierce for entry level jobs since the standards have just become way too high. I sometimes joke that it's harder to get a job than it is to get into Harvard (and it really is...Harvard has a 9% admit rate...at many jobs, you have hundreds of applicants fighting for one position). This is especially true in highly competitive fields, where jobs simply aren't a dime a dozen.



Did you network with anyone at your internship? Could you get a job back there? That's what I had to do. I feel your pain though, most recent grads have a hard time finding work because they don't have any professional experience. Employers want to see experience and make sure the person is capable of the job before they invest loads of money in them. In my opinion, college is like a 4 year long job. It many times is even harder than a job, so in that case I don't see the employer's logic.

Agreed again.

[winneythepooh7]

Love, got your email and replied..........

[EmberMae]

Yep, preaching to the choir here. A bachelor's isn't what it used to be. At least you have a job at all. I've heard that in the psych field you must go to at least the master's, if not doctorate to get a relevant position.

What is going on here?They say they are looking for someone.I show them my interest.I'm like "woo hoo...I'm right here."I think "don't you see my resume...don't you see the hard work I've put into my schooling."What more do I have to do?I thought that I was doing the best thing possible for myself.I took extra classes in my major.I did an internship when surprisingly it wasn't even required.I graduated with a 3.9 in my major and a 3.8 overall.
Yep, that's my experience as well. I had a 3.97 overall GPA in college (I made a B in ONE class). You'd think that would count for something, that I've shown that I'm intelligent, independent, and hard-working. But it counts for nothing. Nothing at all.

[shinyleaf]

So, now that we all know that a Bachelor's degree won't get you a job, what do we owe the next generation of "us"? the truth, that's what. I have a BA in psych and an MA in applied psych research.
Bachelor's degrees in majors like psych should never be promoted as a ticket to a job - any job, in the psych area. "Therapists" with a BA in Psych are a liability and dilute the profession of repute, imo.
It doesn't matter in the real world what your average was or whether you graduated magna cum laude. It only matters if you want to get into a graduate program. What you need if you want to work are useable skills. Honestly, who is going to hire someone, regardless how smart they are, to perform lit searches and write a paper on the theory of cognitive dissonance? If you learned how to actually perform research, then you can be a research assistant at best.
There's no way I could have taken my BA, gone to work in the field to "test it out" to see if I wanted to do a Masters - allllll the skills I use in my job now are from my MA. My BA was like kindergarten.

It's up to us to find the answers we are looking for, by asking others are where we want to be, what they had to do. University career counsellors are a joke. They are hired by the university to draw more suckers in!

Prospective university students at the Bachelor's level need to either boycott the curriculum as it is, or demand better, more useable skills out of their 3 or 4 years of tuition.

[yankeeyosh]

Hell, I got a freaking MS, and all it got me was a job that only requires a bachelor's degree and a year's worth of working experience. That's pretty pathetic...but that's how it is. If you're not a savvy speaker or have a million internships, it's really, really hard no matter how many degrees you have.

[mgoblue424]

liberal arts degrees are all pretty much useless. you see tech. degrees earning in the 40s and up it seems.


and i went one worse- i got a masters based on parental advice. i hate the field though. i had made headway as a therapist, but i finally realised it isnt some magical force or a religion, that my dad thinks it is.

all in all, the economy sucks, and to make your way ina field, you need to network, network, network. i did network at my work, but in the end, everyones telling me to get out.



sheesh, is life supposed to be this hard?

[winneythepooh7]

Shinyleaf, clean out your PM's.

[wordsmith]

liberal arts degrees are all pretty much useless.

Intensely and vociferously disagree, but I'm not gonna threadjack.

[wordsmith]

Didn't I say I was nerdy? :p

[MollyMe]

All fields are different. Some require a masters before they will hire you while others will not hire you if you get a masters with no relavent work experience.

I don't know if it has gotten harder for college grads now. There are certain majors that have always had few jobs for undergrads. My mom majored in something that she was interested in but recognized that it wasn't a field she would be hired in. My grandmother was in social work and held a masters degree; she needed that masters degree to do her job.

What has changed is the requirement on positions for a college degree. Unless you really prove yourself, you can't work your way up the ladder without a degree. I've talked to older people in engineering positions who never went to college. Now, those positions all have a degree requirement on them. In larger banks, most management positions require a degree. A degree will open doors for you. I have worked with people with BA in Psych. They have a degree and can learn; that is what matters.

[yankeeyosh]

What has changed is the requirement on positions for a college degree. Unless you really prove yourself, you can't work your way up the ladder without a degree. I've talked to older people in engineering positions who never went to college. Now, those positions all have a degree requirement on them. In larger banks, most management positions require a degree. A degree will open doors for you. I have worked with people with BA in Psych. They have a degree and can learn; that is what matters.

Agreed. In the National Weather Service, for instance, as recently as ten years ago, most people who get in just had a B.S. Now, the master's the rule, and there are people getting Ph. D.'s who are interested in working for the NWS.

[BLK95TA]

i got an A.A.S in computer science and am beginning to realize 1. its not worth the paper its written on (nor the $8500 in student loans i still have to pay off) ive been through a few "entry level" IT jobs and hated them all, they had more to do with dealing with irate people, or moving equipment than the computers themselves... i have no desire to continue to barely scrape by in my field, and feel like im just going to be one of those people who does not survive evolution or "the rat race"

[winneythepooh7]

I am going to speak up as someone who has actually worked her way up from a BA in Psych/Sociology to a Master's in Social Work:

I honestly do not feel that most people on the undergrad level (blame it on the schools, blame it on the individuals, honestly, I don't know who to blame) in the fields of psychology/human services really realize that working your way up in this field is a process. I know I didn't when I was that age and fresh out of undergrad. I thought I knew everything there was to know about Psych and SW. I don't think people realize that in order to get ahead, you will need to take an entry-level job for a bit, often making shitty wages. No one is going to hire someone with only a BA and little to no working experience to be a supervisor or a therapist. It is a liability to the agency and it is a liability as well as a disservice period to the clients these agencies serve. Psychology and Social Work are fields that even with a Master's degree, it takes time to know what you are doing, and even with that, problems you will be dealing with with your clients are so complex, you will always need to seek out supervision and support. I have said this before, and I will say it again, since it is related: internship experience in these fields is not the same thing as solid real world working experience. And not only that, but in these fields, populations and problems you are working with are drastically different. That is why most providers have a specialty. For example, most of my work has been with adults. Therefore it goes with good reason, that even though I have a Master's and have been working in the field since 1998, if I were to try to get a job working with kids tommorrow, I would not have an easy go with it. It would not be easy for me to find a job working with kids, and if I did, it would be a new process learning how to work with this population.

[spokes]

all in all, the economy sucks

if you lived in western canada you would not say this because the economy here is white hot.

speaking as someone who has worked all of his lifetime, and does not have a college degree it seems to me that there are lots of cases where people graduate from university and they are not prepared to work in the "real world". Based on my anecdotal observations it appears to me that technical colleges prepare people to work.

[mgoblue424]

if you lived in western canada you would not say this because the economy here is white hot.

speaking as someone who has worked all of his lifetime, and does not have a college degree it seems to me that there are lots of cases where people graduate from university and they are not prepared to work in the "real world". Based on my anecdotal observations it appears to me that technical colleges prepare people to work.


so very true. schools with reps often set their young alums up for failure.


i remember what one kid said to me in a freshmen sociology class. its not the school you go to, but the degree you have.

a crummy degree from a prestigious school is still a crummy degree.

[shinyleaf]

if you lived in western canada you would not say this because the economy here is white hot.

speaking as someone who has worked all of his lifetime, and does not have a college degree it seems to me that there are lots of cases where people graduate from university and they are not prepared to work in the "real world". Based on my anecdotal observations it appears to me that technical colleges prepare people to work.


ab -SO--lutely.

the white hot economy needs skilled labour right now, not history majors. That said, it's the history majors who develop the skills to make decisions on the appropriate direction for this white hot economy. History majors know what the wheel is, and how to avoid reinventing it, for example.

[coolfrequency]

I also have a bachelor's degree in psych. It took me six months of searching before I found my current psych related job, and it's not even a job that requires a degree.

Psych is an interesting field. So much of it is clinical. There really isn't much that you are allowed to do, without a clinical master's level degree in social work or therapy. So, yeah, its much harder to get bachelor's level work in psychology, than it is to get bachelor's level work in just about any other field.

But there ARE jobs out there...just, like you said, you have to search for much longer.

Best advice I could give you...volunteer. Get involved in the various social service agencies in your area. It boosts your resume (I found that a LOT of the psych positions that would consider someone without a masters degree, also required a certain amount of work experience, so, you really need to get that experience one way or the other), but besides boosting your resume, it also gets you contacts within the field. It will teach you what agencies are out there, and it will make it so that you get to know the people who are hiring, you find out about jobs by talking to people, before they get listed.

Don't even waste time looking through newspaper job listings. The only way to find a psych job is to contact social service agencies directly.

Here are some ideas though. My first job out of college was working as a customer service person on the phones, in the mental health division of a medical insurance company. It was boring robot work that didn't pay enough, but without it, I never would have been considered for the job I have now, which I love.

Right now I'm working on a crisis phone line for a mental health agency. Wonderful work. Awesome experience, very directly related to my degree. Once again it doesn't pay much, but I'm doing what I went to school to do, and I'm building my resume. I wouldn't have gotten that job, if I didn't already have mental health call center experience, from working for an insurance company.

Other things to consider - adoption agencies, substance abuse treatment facilities, child protective services, being a psych tech at an inpatient psychiatric facility/hospital, mental retardation services, mobile crisis units, etc etc. My current job is through the government funded mental health agency that cares for people with no private insurance, and it's huge and has tons of jobs, and typically hires the lowest possible qualifications in order to keep costs down...look into it, find out where people with mental illnesses go, in your area, if they are uninsured.

and just, be patient. Keep looking for the work you want, even if you found a job at the bank. It does take time.

[mgoblue424]

Psych is an interesting field. So much of it is clinical. There really isn't much that you are allowed to do, without a clinical master's level degree in social work or therapy.

managed care is destroying the field from the top down. its aggravating to have to spend an hour on the phone with the utilization management division of your local HMO to get a lousy extra five sessions authorized, and then get about 60 bucks per session. and then on top of that you have to wait for them to send the authorization out, and then submit for payment, and hope there are no errors on the form. sheesh...... :googly:

trust me, the days of wanna be FRASIERS are over. even the psychiatrists i know are burned out.

i used to think i wanted a phd. no thanks. where i worked was a training hospital too, and i saw all sorts of phd interns come through. one guy, andy, seemed nice enough. looked like the penguin from batman a little bit. you could tell he was wrapped a bit too tightly though.

Psychology, interesting field to study, but a hell of a way to make a living. esp. in the new century.

[coolfrequency]

managed care is destroying the field from the top down. its aggravating to have to spend an hour on the phone with the utilization management division of your local HMO to get a lousy extra five sessions authorized, and then get about 60 bucks per session. and then on top of that you have to wait for them to send the authorization out, and then submit for payment, and hope there are no errors on the form. sheesh...... :googly:

trust me, the days of wanna be FRASIERS are over. even the psychiatrists i know are burned out.

i used to think i wanted a phd. no thanks. where i worked was a training hospital too, and i saw all sorts of phd interns come through. one guy, andy, seemed nice enough. looked like the penguin from batman a little bit. you could tell he was wrapped a bit too tightly though.

Psychology, interesting field to study, but a hell of a way to make a living. esp. in the new century.

yeah this is basically why I have given up on the idea of continuing on to get a masters and be a therapist...instead I hope to go to law school. Harder, more competitive, etc etc, but at least once I get there, I'll actually make money for the work that I do. And I think there's still the same potential to work with people on a personal level and really make a difference in people's lives. Depending on how I pursue it.

incidentally, I know firsthand the kind of shit that managed care tries to pull in order to make it as difficult as possible for providers to get paid. I worked for the devil, I was an insurance customer service person, I gave those authorizations out over the phone, took the calls from overworked and underpaid therapists. I cheated a whole lot, to try to get people paid for the work they had done that the insurance companies were trying to deny them over a technicality.

They really make it as confusing as possible, just to prevent claims from going through. Why do you need to preauthorize, in the first place? When you preauthorize, here's what happens. You speak to a high-school-or-less worker on the other end, someone like me, who is instructed to not ask a single question about what kind of care is being given or whether it is necessary...no, all I do, is check and make sure that the policy covers it, then I make a note in the system that you called. That's ALL. If that preauthorization was somehow checking to make sure it was medically necessary, then maybe that's justifiable, but if it's a simple "we give authorizations to everyone who asks" process, then what is the purpose besides adding steps so that more people will fail to do it and will get denied?

and it gets better...they literally changed policies about what is required to authorize care, weekly. Sometimes daily. I've even had a policy given, then taken back, within the same hour! It was a full time job for me, as a customer service person, just to keep all the changing policies straight. How is a private therapist who doesn't even work for the insurance company, supposed to figure out what's expected of them?

I'm quite sure that the demands we placed on providers, created just as much work for them as seeing clients does, if not more. You want to lower the cost of healthcare? Try cutting back on the busy work that you force providers to do! it's all really outrageous

[mgoblue424]

too funny. i had gone to law school briefly. but was unimpressed with it as well.


the only way to really make money as a therapist is a cash business. but who wants to pay out of pocket? and the fees you have to charge to make it work are unrealistic. i overestimated my skill and underestimated the difficulty. of course, i had encouragement to do it.



ugh. im seriously thinking of going to teach English overseas for a year or two. give my head a chance to clear and come up with something else to do.


maybe meet an Australian princess doing the same thing and live happily ever after.


eh, a guy can dream, right?

[coolfrequency]

too funny. i had gone to law school briefly. but was unimpressed with it as well.

care to elaborate on why exactly you were unimpressed with law school? I need all the insight I can get before I invest so much into something that big.

[mgoblue424]

care to elaborate on why exactly you were unimpressed with law school? I need all the insight I can get before I invest so much into something that big.


it depends on where you go i suppose. like you said it was the cost that spooked me more than anything after i got there. they bust your hump and put you in hawk for the forseeable future. lets just call it a bad vibe.


and people tell me i dont have the personality of an attorney. that i would agree with. though you can be successful in any type i suppose, the conflict that youre around all the time is draining for me.

what is your plan for law school? what do you intend to use the degree for?

[terabytes]

I want to say I agree with everyone and feel their pain. My boyfriend and I are both suffering. I have two associate degrees. One in Sociology and another in Office Admin. and Technology (admin assisting) I have over 2 yrs exp. in my field of admin. assisting and still cant find a great job. I have a decent paying job now, but it is only a temp job for a period of 10 months...and then I will be on the search for Another job! The job I have now is ok. It is not that challenging though. I dont mind a lax job but you do need some challenges here and there. It pays decent but not what I am worth.

My boyfriend has an associate of networking technology from ITT which he paid like 30,000 for (and will be paying off forever!) and he still cannot find a job in his field. He has been out of school for over a year now. He is working two part time jobs to help he and I make it. One of his pt time jobs is at the computer tech dept. of a major store but still, they are not giving him any hrs. He works there like 4 hrs a week...no benefits with either of his pt. time jobs.

I just hate the fact that we both worked very hard in school and put so much money, time, and effort into it like all of you and still nothing. Granted the job I had before this one I have not was tons worse. I was a file clerk (moved to that position by my boss). I was treated very badly like I was stupid and then they laid me off cuz my job was despensable. The thing that makes me so mad is they put me in that position. I was the receptionist and the new girl (the recpetionist that replaced me)..is there there! I was there 10 months. ONLY two months away from a paid week vacation and verything. They totally screwed me over!

I think now that too much emphasis is place on degrees. It seems that most people who have em cant find a good job in their field anyway. I was told and so was my bf. that there were such great opportunities out there for us when we graduated. There doesnt seem like much. Just the doom of having all that tution loans over your head....that you cant pay off in a reasonable manner cuz you can find a darn good job in your field! It is just so unfair to us all.

[PenforPrez]

liberal arts degrees are all pretty much useless.

This is totally true. The only jobs that anybody wants a BA for is sales, either corporate or MLM. Sales is becoming an endemic trap for BA's. I hate sales, I'll sit here and rot before I sell ever again. I'm not too far from that point now!

I will go even further than that. I will be attacked for saying this, but this is what I believe. I say that going to college is a worthless waste of time.

Think about this. By our own admission, college degrees are wasted unless you "network." If you can't/won't network, you're screwed from the word Go. That's the biggest reason I've never had a real job in the four years since I graduated. My entire network is too busy keeping their heads up their own asses to help.

I know a lot of unqualified people in good jobs because they kissed enough ass to get there. That's what it's come down to. Whose ass did you kiss?

Besides that, people with specialized certifications (as opposed to 4-year degrees) have better chances in getting good employment in a lot of hot job fields. That's what employers want: people with SPECIFIC skills.

17 of the 20 fastest growing career fields in the next 10 years will require almost no education or skills at all. Why are we sending kids to college when corporate America is going to want high school dropouts?

PEN

[mgoblue424]

my whole world got flipped upside down when i was laid off, and i looked back at my life and saw ive been trying to climb up a mountain that no one in their right mind would try to attempt. based on parental expectations.

anyway, college can be good, but you need a degree that is both appealing to you and/or at least offers financial security. i encourage everyone to get internships or at least contacts in the field they want to pursue. my mistake is i crawled into a hole in college. i advise others not to make that mistake.

[SpaceMonkey]

i encourage everyone to get internships or at least contacts in the field they want to pursue. my mistake is i crawled into a hole in college. i advise others not to make that mistake.

Ditto. I'm right now (almost a year after graduation) doing what I should have been doing in college--using my professors to help me network with people in my area of interest and pursuing internships.

[wordsmith]

This is totally true. The only jobs that anybody wants a BA for is sales, either corporate or MLM. Sales is becoming an endemic trap for BA's. I hate sales, I'll sit here and rot before I sell ever again. I'm not too far from that point now!

This is blatantly false. I said I wasn't going to threadjack, but as somebody with a B.A. who has already had two post-collegiate jobs that are more personally fulfilling than some people are fortunate enough to hold in their entire lives, I have to note that this is a cynical blanket statement. And, no, I don't do sales, never even considered doing sales, and sincerely doubt I ever will.

If you want to say that certain fields limit your advancement significantly if you don't pursue a continued degree at some point, or that some fields prefer a graduate degree at entry level, I won't disagree with you. But to imply that schooling has no benefit or application in the professional world is beyond ridiculous. Since a lot of recent grads/soon to be grads do peruse this site, I can't let it go unsaid..nobody needs to be freaking out, there are dozens of gainfully employed people on here who hold BAs and don't consider their time spent in school to have been a waste, in any case.

There are lots of diverse reasons that people may have problems breaking into their employment of choice. And it's typically more complex than "my degree is worthless."

[globally79]

You know, I did an English major in college. I loved my classes, I loved my professors. But I had no idea how hard it would be to find a job with just "general skills" and how boring these jobs were. I was basically following the middle class road map: high school, college, career, etc. I really thought landing in a middle class office job after college was as inevitable as death.
It pains me to say it, because I really think I'm a better person for my degree, but people looking at a liberal arts major nowadays should think twice. If I had known about the job prospects and the pay, and the tedious nature of "general skills" jobs, I might have thought twice. Or at least gone in state. I still think it can be a good program, but racking up $30,000 in loans to become a copy editor or library assistant just doesn't make sense.
I think schools should do more to promote career skills and networking. At no point in my expensive education was I given any hint of how hard it would be after graduation. Most campuses have career service offices, but some kind of carrot and/or stick is needed to get kids in the door. Also, internships should be strongly encouraged, if not mandatory.

[EmberMae]

Think about this. By our own admission, college degrees are wasted unless you "network." If you can't/won't network, you're screwed from the word Go. That's the biggest reason I've never had a real job in the four years since I graduated. My entire network is too busy keeping their heads up their own asses to help.

I know a lot of unqualified people in good jobs because they kissed enough ass to get there. That's what it's come down to. Whose ass did you kiss?


Yes. Employers are too lazy to try and figure out who is most qualified for the job. Instead they settle for someone who knows someone, is friends with someone. Which says nothing about their qualifications. Gross incompetence abounds, while hard-working, intelligent people are totally shut out because they don't know the right people.

[mgoblue424]

Ditto. I'm right now (almost a year after graduation) doing what I should have been doing in college--using my professors to help me network with people in my area of interest and pursuing internships.



well im glad im not the only one to make that mistake.


and i had alot of good contacts in my field. only problem is that most didnt have jobs they could offer as they themselves were struggling with all the changes, and two, most of them are burned out as well.

look for GROWTH FIELDS......

[coolfrequency]

it depends on where you go i suppose. like you said it was the cost that spooked me more than anything after i got there. they bust your hump and put you in hawk for the forseeable future. lets just call it a bad vibe.


and people tell me i dont have the personality of an attorney. that i would agree with. though you can be successful in any type i suppose, the conflict that youre around all the time is draining for me.

what is your plan for law school? what do you intend to use the degree for?

oh, I don't have the personality of an attorney either...not ambitious/competitive enough, I'm way too laid back, I have too much of an attitude of "life is to be enjoyed" which isn't really how you get to the top as an attorney...but like you said, I guess it depends what you do with it. I think I could be happy working as an attorney for a nonprofit, even though they don't earn a fraction of what the competitive top students make when they go on to big name, top law firms.

I don't really have specific plans for law school. The U of H here in houston has a dual program where, if I'm willing to go to school for an extra year, I can get a masters in social work as well as a law degree. Where do the two overlap, what would I do with those degrees? Mediation? Family Law? I have no idea. But those are the two fields that interest me, so hopefully it would give me the chance to do what I want to do when the right opportunity comes along. Also a load of debt though. I'm really just making this up as I go along.

[mgoblue424]

well, i would ask to speak with someone in the program, and someone who graduated from the program. the mistake i made was getting locked into an idea without really exploring its feasibility.

i mean, i said "my dad was successful with the degree, therefore i will be too." the only thing is the field is very draining, my dad had access to resources i dont, and even he secretly didnt like the field. (i mean, would you encourage your kid into a field where you secretly thought about suicide?)

for me the larger issue of living in someone's shadow also came up. and trying to gain approval. i had been making progress i think, but in the end it was too much. same with law school. that was going to be a huge investment, and from the feedback i got, the market is just as flooded.

so its back to square one. ive been looking into teaching English overseas for a year. i figure that may clear my head, save a little bit, and live for once. and who knows.

[coolfrequency]

well, i would ask to speak with someone in the program, and someone who graduated from the program. the mistake i made was getting locked into an idea without really exploring its feasibility.

i mean, i said "my dad was successful with the degree, therefore i will be too." the only thing is the field is very draining, my dad had access to resources i dont, and even he secretly didnt like the field. (i mean, would you encourage your kid into a field where you secretly thought about suicide?)

for me the larger issue of living in someone's shadow also came up. and trying to gain approval. i had been making progress i think, but in the end it was too much. same with law school. that was going to be a huge investment, and from the feedback i got, the market is just as flooded.

so its back to square one. ive been looking into teaching English overseas for a year. i figure that may clear my head, save a little bit, and live for once. and who knows.

you know...go for it. If you want to do it, don't worry whether its smart or whatever, just, do it. Go overseas, see another side of life, try it out. Some of the best decisions of my life, made no sense. I took off for chicago mid-semester to see the last smashing pumpkins show ever, even though my parents threatened to yank me from college over it, and I had one of the best times of my life. A year ago I quit my job, dumped my boyfriend, ignored the disapproval of my family, and moved all the way to Texas to start over - and life is better than it has ever been. I think we let fear of the unknown hold us back, too much. So yeah, shake things up, try something new, it's good for you.

I guess I have the "advantage" going into this, that I'm not living in anybody's shadow. I know for a fact that my parents will never ever approve of me no matter what, so I guess my totally demolished non-relationship with them frees me to do whatever I want to do without worrying what they think. They'll think I'm a failure no matter what, so it's a moot point.

I tend to get the impression that the market is flooded, and the pay sucks, for just about ALL right brained careers. Psychology, journalism, schoolteachers, lawyers, designers, etc etc etc...is the market good for ANY of these jobs? Nope. The only way you're going to get ahead is in science or math (accounting, medicine, computer science, engineering, etc etc). Unfortunately I am COMPLETELY not suited for that kind of work, so...struggling from the bottom for below-average wages in an oversaturated market, is really destined to be my lot in life, no matter what I do.

All the same, I'm optimistic. I found a job that I love, with only a bachelor's in family science. I'm getting by fine. And believe me, if I can find entry-level psych work with only a bachelor's...then I'm sure I can find work with a law degree, oversaturated market or not. It might take me a while of looking. But it can be done.

you are right though...certainly I need to be figuring out a plan, and figuring out what my job prospects are, before committing myself to all the work and all the debt involved in going back to school. But hey, I've barely even cracked my LSAT prep book, so, it's all ahead of me still.

[mgoblue424]

thanks. i have to think back that i never really went through any teenage rebellion. some days id feel like i was banging my head against the wall and wondering why i wasnt doing better.

as for the LSAT, the one i had the most problems with when i took it was those logic games. law school can be hit and miss. i have one friend who went into foreign relations and then ended up working for Dow after getting an MBA in sweden.

then there is the guy who went to Univ of Minnesota, and was working at a grocery store and paying off 77k loans. now hes moved back home and has a job at home depot, and planning on taking the bar for Michigan in a few months. Success is really hit and miss it seems in anything nowadays....

[ferma]

I've had the same experiences interviewing as well. I'll go through 4 interviews with the same company and leave on a positive note - "We'll definitely be in contact with you" - only to have the line of communcation drop. Not even an rejection letter. When did this become professional, courteous business behavior?? If I didn't make the top 3, then please don't lead me to think otherwise!

[Fashionista]

I think schools should do more to promote career skills and networking. At no point in my expensive education was I given any hint of how hard it would be after graduation. Most campuses have career service offices, but some kind of carrot and/or stick is needed to get kids in the door. Also, internships should be strongly encouraged, if not mandatory.

i couldn't agree with this statement more based on my current experience. my major never required or suggested internships, nor were a good portion of the students told there was a career service office. i found out through the alumni newsletter.

i went there yesterday for resume/coverletter advice thinking the reason why i was not landing a job was because i was marketing myself wrong. then the director dropped a bombshell on me by saying i will have a tough time getting a job because i didn't do an internship even though i had to work to support myself. i feel like that is a slap in the face almost because people will never understand how hard i struggled to survive in school only to have nothing to show for it but a a few awards and my degree. i feel jipped out of 4 years of my life and $27,000. i know i probably sound overdramatic but if people understood how many times i had to go without the basic necessities to do this they would see what i mean

i was told too that my liberal arts degree would get me a job in numerous fields. funny i don't see that and this board proves my point.

i am however seriously considering returning to school so i can possible have a second chance at becoming hirable through internships and networking. but then again that may not pan out either

[Fashionista]

I've had the same experiences interviewing as well. I'll go through 4 interviews with the same company and leave on a positive note - "We'll definitely be in contact with you" - only to have the line of communcation drop. Not even an rejection letter. When did this become professional, courteous business behavior?? If I didn't make the top 3, then please don't lead me to think otherwise!
the last interview i went on the director made it seem like i had the job in the bag and that i was the best candidate ever. after my interview i didn't hear from him for a month even after i sent 2 emails and called his office. it wasn't until i called human resources that he emailed me back saying the position was filled awhile ago. needless to say i was very upset.

[politicaljunkie]

Do you need a degree to move into management at a bank?

No. You need to have rock star people skills, and the willingness to work like a dog for 15 years making minimum wage before you get into management at a bank. I think there are just so many with bachelors degrees that the degree itself means very little, unless you have a useful degree.

[youwait4me]

Yeah its really stupid that degrees don't matter at all any more. People should just be uneducated. Heck, don't even bother teaching kids to read anymore. I sometimes now wish I didn't have a degree. But then sometimes I like having it.

[need2startover]

im so feeling this entire thread today too

[workaholic?]

i have an honest question for those of you who went into liberal arts and have had trouble finding jobs. When you were deciding on your major, did you have a specific idea of what you wanted to do with it? For instance, did you know someone who had that same degree and held a specific job that you thought was cool and you wanted to do it, too? Or, did you just know you wanted to go into that "area" and figured the rest would work itself out?

[Winter Storm]

i have an honest question for those of you who went into liberal arts and have had trouble finding jobs. When you were deciding on your major, did you have a specific idea of what you wanted to do with it? For instance, did you know someone who had that same degree and held a specific job that you thought was cool and you wanted to do it, too? Or, did you just know you wanted to go into that "area" and figured the rest would work itself out?

Good question, I've been wondering this too. Seems we have a few people with English or other liberal arts degrees wondering now what to do and where to go with them. I'd think that would have been decided when picking the major and going through the classes.

Not to knock anyone, though. Just curious myself.

[youwait4me]

did you have a specific idea of what you wanted to do with it? For instance, did you know someone who had that same degree and held a specific job that you thought was cool and you wanted to do it, too?

Yes to both questions. What I want to do requires a PhD.

[workaholic?]

then you should probably go ahead and get your phD. apparently what you want to do didn't miraculously start only requiring a bachelor's in the time it took you to finish college, so why is this so shocking?

[Kitty]

i have an honest question for those of you who went into liberal arts and have had trouble finding jobs. When you were deciding on your major, did you have a specific idea of what you wanted to do with it? For instance, did you know someone who had that same degree and held a specific job that you thought was cool and you wanted to do it, too? Or, did you just know you wanted to go into that "area" and figured the rest would work itself out?

I just liked literature and I figured if I did what I liked I would eventually be able to find a job doing something that interested me. I didn't really know what I'd do ..but i knew it would all come together.

I think it's hard to know exactly what career you'll end up in when you're 18, and therefore I recommend people just discover what they like and what they're good at in college and go for that.

[Kitty]

Yes to both questions. What I want to do requires a PhD.

I honestly just think you should stay in the academic sector because I think you're going to get eaten alive in the real world.

[youwait4me]

then you should probably go ahead and get your phD. apparently what you want to do didn't miraculously start only requiring a bachelor's in the time it took you to finish college, so why is this so shocking?

Uh...because maybe I want to take 2 years off before starting grad school because I don't want to go just yet and to actually study for the GRE, take the GRE, learn about doing research from the professors I had classes with so I can find a more specific topics of interest (and no they cannot pay me), do a field school, etc.

[workaholic?]

i understand that a lot of people don't really know exactly what they want to do in life at 18, but i find it really interesting that so many people just go blindly into majors and degrees without considering what they'll do afterward, and then they blame the educational system for doing it to them. i find it hard to believe that in the course of your obtaining your degree, not one single person asked you what you were going to do after school...at which point i know you yourself had to start wondering. when does some sense of personal responsibility come into play? at 18, we want to be treated as adults...don't you think it's about time we all started doing that and taking responsibility for ourselves and for our futures?

AND they somehow expect people to tell them about things (career centers, etc) or do things for them. i can tell you now that nobody told me about the career center at my school. nobody told me we have an online alumni connection with which to network. and no companies recruited at my school. basically if you wanted a job, you had to go out and find it. so that's what people did. that's what i did, and if i hadn't, even with an engineering degree, i would be sitting at my parents house right now with no job...or at least with no job related to my field.

[Kitty]

i understand that a lot of people don't really know exactly what they want to do in life at 18, but i find it really interesting that so many people just go blindly into majors and degrees without considering what they'll do afterward, and then they blame the educational system for doing it to them. i find it hard to believe that in the course of your obtaining your degree, not one single person asked you what you were going to do after school...at which point i know you yourself had to start wondering. when does some sense of personal responsibility come into play? at 18, we want to be treated as adults...don't you think it's about time we all started doing that and taking responsibility for ourselves and for our futures?

AND they somehow expect people to tell them about things (career centers, etc) or do things for them. i can tell you now that nobody told me about the career center at my school. nobody told me we have an online alumni connection with which to network. and no companies recruited at my school. basically if you wanted a job, you had to go out and find it. so that's what people did. that's what i did, and if i hadn't, even with an engineering degree, i would be sitting at my parents house right now with no job...or at least with no job related to my field.

Are you talking to me?

[workaholic?]

Are you talking to me?


no, not really...it was just my reaction to what you were saying....and it was addressed to the whole forum as a real question. i'm not trying to be like...mean or harsh or anything...i'm really just curious.

[Kitty]

Well, you seem to be implying that because I didn't know what I wanted to do when I was 18, and just did what I liked/enjoyed, that I am somehow irresponsible (which I find offensive). I found a job before I even graduated college and it was a well paying, good job. It's not like because I was getting a liberal arts degree and didn't know exactly what I wanted to do x number of years down the road that I didn't have any common sense about finding a job, living on my own, etc.

Even if, at 18, I thought I knew what I wanted to do as a career, chances are I would have changed my mind anyway. Honestly, I don't know how you can go wrong majoring in something you like and you're good at.

It's not like I just sat there while getting my BA in American Literature never thinking about what I'd do with it, I just wasn't really sure how everything would play out. It wasn't like I knew I wanted to become a Marketing Coordinator at an engineering firm when I was 19.

[youwait4me]

i understand that a lot of people don't really know exactly what they want to do in life at 18, but i find it really interesting that so many people just go blindly into majors and degrees without considering what they'll do afterward, and then they blame the educational system for doing it to them. i find it hard to believe that in the course of your obtaining your degree, not one single person asked you what you were going to do after school...at which point i know you yourself had to start wondering. when does some sense of personal responsibility come into play? at 18, we want to be treated as adults...don't you think it's about time we all started doing that and taking responsibility for ourselves and for our futures?

AND they somehow expect people to tell them about things (career centers, etc) or do things for them. i can tell you now that nobody told me about the career center at my school. nobody told me we have an online alumni connection with which to network. and no companies recruited at my school. basically if you wanted a job, you had to go out and find it. so that's what people did. that's what i did, and if i hadn't, even with an engineering degree, i would be sitting at my parents house right now with no job...or at least with no job related to my field.

I was told by numerous people that all you needed to get a job was a degree with good grades.
I switched majors twice before settling on the one I have the BA in, which I switched to as a senior.

[workaholic?]

Well, you seem to be implying that because I didn't know what I wanted to do when I was 18, and just did what I liked/enjoyed, that I am somehow irresponsible (which I find offensive). I found a job before I even graduated college and it was a well paying, good job. It's not like because I was getting a liberal arts degree and didn't know exactly what I wanted to do x number of years down the road that I didn't have any common sense about finding a job, living on my own, etc.

Even if, at 18, I thought I knew what I wanted to do as a career, chances are I would have changed my mind anyway. Honestly, I don't know how you can go wrong majoring in something you like and you're good at.

It's not like I just sat there while getting my BA in American Literature never thinking about what I'd do with it, I just wasn't really sure how everything would play out. It wasn't like I knew I wanted to become a Marketing Coordinator at an engineering firm when I was 19.


that's exactly what i'm saying though...you took personal responsibility for and ownership of your own future...therefore, it doesn't really apply to you.

i'm talking about the people who go all the way through college, do nothing related to their field either as a research position, an internship, a job, a volunteer opportunity...and then get out of college still not knowing what to do with themselves and simply claiming (and sometimes whining) that some career counselor somewhere told them they would be able to get a job with whatever degree and that all you needed was a degree to get a job. people in this post have said that exact thing and they have also claimed that no one told them about their career center and no one told them it would be so hard to find a job.

Kitty, i don't know you and i was certainly not intending to offend you. my post was more in response to all the complaints i've been seeing lately about not being able to find a job after college and people actually saying that college is useless. i don't really recall ever seeing any of those types of posts from you.

And just to clarify. i'm not in any way trying to knock liberal arts degrees. believe me, i think this world would be a horrifically boring place if all we had were scientists and mathematicians.

I just want to see people take some responsibility for whatever position they're in instead of playing the blame game.

[youwait4me]

simply claiming (and sometimes whining) that some career counselor somewhere told them they would be able to get a job with whatever degree and that all you needed was a degree to get a job.

That is what I was told my whole life (and not just by parents)--but also people who had jobs like being teachers, working at a bank, went to my church, my middle school/high school friends' parents who worked, etc.

[youwait4me]

I was told and so was my bf. that there were such great opportunities out there for us when we graduated.

Same here. Glad to know I am not the only one who was misled.

[yankeeyosh]

i understand that a lot of people don't really know exactly what they want to do in life at 18, but i find it really interesting that so many people just go blindly into majors and degrees without considering what they'll do afterward, and then they blame the educational system for doing it to them. i find it hard to believe that in the course of your obtaining your degree, not one single person asked you what you were going to do after school...at which point i know you yourself had to start wondering. when does some sense of personal responsibility come into play? at 18, we want to be treated as adults...don't you think it's about time we all started doing that and taking responsibility for ourselves and for our futures?

AND they somehow expect people to tell them about things (career centers, etc) or do things for them. i can tell you now that nobody told me about the career center at my school. nobody told me we have an online alumni connection with which to network. and no companies recruited at my school. basically if you wanted a job, you had to go out and find it. so that's what people did. that's what i did, and if i hadn't, even with an engineering degree, i would be sitting at my parents house right now with no job...or at least with no job related to my field.


No one knows what they want to be at 18. I still don't know what I want to be at 28. And I'm certainly not blaming the educational system...I got a top notch education for both undergrad and grad school. There are many other factors that resulted in the lack of progress I've made so far careerwise...many of them are admittedly my own fault. But blame the schools? No way. Most people who went through the programs I went to are pretty successful right now, so that definitely isn't the reason.

[PenforPrez]

A couple of thoughts from my own experience. . . .

i find it hard to believe that in the course of your obtaining your degree, not one single person asked you what you were going to do after school...at which point i know you yourself had to start wondering.

With my history studies/degree, I was asked about two career possibilities, and ONLY two: teaching and law. Especially the former. That's all I'm ever asked about now. Nobody can conceive that a history graduate could or would do anything else.

Did I wonder what I wanted to do? Yes I did, and I kicked around a lot of ideas. But I really didn't have a great idea what I could do, and nobody would help me figure it out. I'm still confused, four years out of college, as to what I can do.

AND they somehow expect people to tell them about things (career centers, etc) or do things for them. i can tell you now that nobody told me about the career center at my school. nobody told me we have an online alumni connection with which to network. and no companies recruited at my school.

My alma mater's career center won't help liberal arts grads; neither will the alumni office. I got harassed by a staffer when I went to the alumni office to ask for help. And nobody recruited for liberal arts grads at my college either.

Paul

[youwait4me]

All colleges care about is engineering. It certainly seems that way at least.

[lonestar]

Here's the problem as I see it: colleges and universities lie and mislead students. There is no guidance or advising in any meaningful manner...if I had been told that choosing a liberal arts major would lead to difficulty in finding a job or securing a salary competitive with those in engineering or finance, I would not have selected it. I think college advisors need to stop telling kids/students "study what you love" and help them to find majors that lead to good jobs. I understand the merit behind studying your passion, but at the end of the day (and all that tuition) you need to get into the world and make some money!

Now, I have had to reinvest in studying accounting and business to make a decent salary...I love the fact that I can interpret literature, but I should have gone for a degree that pays! I am tired of being poor and watching people my age driving around in nice, new cars and having nice apartments while I scrape by.

[wordsmith]

Here's the problem as I see it: colleges and universities lie and mislead students. There is no guidance or advising in any meaningful manner...if I had been told that choosing a liberal arts major would lead to difficulty in finding a job or securing a salary competitive with those in engineering or finance, I would not have selected it. I think college advisors need to stop telling kids/students "study what you love" and help them to find majors that lead to good jobs. I understand the merit behind studying your passion, but at the end of the day (and all that tuition) you need to get into the world and make some money!

Now, I have had to reinvest in studying accounting and business to make a decent salary...I love the fact that I can interpret literature, but I should have gone for a degree that pays! I am tired of being poor and watching people my age driving around in nice, new cars and having nice apartments while I scrape by.


I can't say I ever felt lied to. Actually, people were bluntly honest with me. I had a very nice, very flattering professor who told me after I'd written some papers for him that he thought I had what it took to be an English professor, thought my skills and insights would be well-served in that arena. I considered that, and later asked my advisor, also an English professor, and we had a big heart to heart, where she said, "I'm not going to lie to you...I have no doubt you COULD be professor, you have the ability...but you may not WANT to, and here's why..." and laid a lot on the line for me as far as the flooding of the field, i.e. no shortage of English professors; the "publish or perish" situation that professors in overfull disciplines are subject to, the challenges and the ugly side of academia, as well as the positive sides.

At first I was mad...who was she to discourage somebody? Wasn't she supposed to be telling me that if I had the ability, go for it? But I do realize now that she was striving to do EXACTLY the opposite of what colleges, and specifically liberal arts instructors are accused of doing constantly, as on this thread. She wanted to present a fair picture and let her students make their choices in the most informed manner possible. She was trying to NOT sell anybody on anything. She NEVER told me "stop studying what you love, be practical," and wouldn't do that, because that would be a disservice, too. She just presented me with the facts regarding a specific career trajectory, so that if I went that route, I wouldn't be flying blind and armed only with an idealized and inaccurate image. She wasn't discouraging me, she was sharing her experience, warts and all and left it to me to think on. I appreciated that.

Honestly, anybody who goes into their chosen field without doing the proper homework as to the characteristics of that field (including compensation, the types and numbers of opportunities most likely open to him or her), and serious thought as to whether or not that matches his or her needs, wants, and desires has done a disservice to him or herself, and it's silly to blame other people or the institution.

I was always told "study what you love." But I was NEVER told that studying literature and writing and music and theatre would lead to the same sort of financial compensation as a field in science or medicine or engineering or finance, and never imagined that it would. In choosing to go with it anyway, it was a conscious compromise to sacrifice high pay for something I happen to enjoy. You equate "good job" with one that makes a high degree of pay, versus one that's necessarily personally fulfilling, and that doesn't always work, for everyone. But the key word is "conscious." Nobody lied to me. It was ALWAYS a known reality that for me, doing what i enjoy doesn't mean the bigger paycheck, and I walked into that with my eyes wide open.

[WorkInProgress]

Here's the problem as I see it: colleges and universities lie and mislead students. There is no guidance or advising in any meaningful manner...if I had been told that choosing a liberal arts major would lead to difficulty in finding a job or securing a salary competitive with those in engineering or finance, I would not have selected it. I think college advisors need to stop telling kids/students "study what you love" and help them to find majors that lead to good jobs. I understand the merit behind studying your passion, but at the end of the day (and all that tuition) you need to get into the world and make some money!

Now, I have had to reinvest in studying accounting and business to make a decent salary...I love the fact that I can interpret literature, but I should have gone for a degree that pays! I am tired of being poor and watching people my age driving around in nice, new cars and having nice apartments while I scrape by.

I'm going to come right out and say that I disagree with you. I get your point--it is not fun to struggle, and attempt, and maybe settle for a job, but I also wonder why the onus must be on the college/university, or the parents rather than the student--the person who ultimately makes the decision. Yes, other people/institutions provide advice, but it is up to the student to sort through that advice and make a decision. I was never under the impression that a liberal arts degree (IR, with a heavy concentration in history) would buy me a flashy job and a huge paycheck. I did think it would be easier to find a job than it was, but nobody lied to me and said that I was guaranteed something the day I graduated. And believe me, I got plenty frustrated. Whose fault was it that I didn't major in finance? Mine. Would I want to? Nope. I'm pretty sure I'd be miserable in a finance job, no matter how practical.

And getting information on different career paths, difficulties, etc. is really, really not hard. I've seen countless articles on MSN about this. It gets talked about on the nightly news. I would be absolutely astounded if a simple google search wouldn't provide some of the information that many college grads say they didn't know. Choosing not to think about it or worry about it is no excuse to blame others.

I have no desire to get nasty (and I've tried not to be insulting), but at some point, doesn't personal responsibility come into play? *rant over*

[WorkInProgress]

[QUOTE=wordsmith]I can't say I ever felt lied to.[QUOTE]

I don't know how this always happens. I think we've jinxed.

[wordsmith]

I'm going to come right out and say that I disagree with you. I get your point--it is not fun to struggle, and attempt, and maybe settle for a job, but I also wonder why the onus must be on the college/university, or the parents rather than the student--the person who ultimately makes the decision. Yes, other people/institutions provide advice, but it is up to the student to sort through that advice and make a decision. I was never under the impression that a liberal arts degree (IR, with a heavy concentration in history) would buy me a flashy job and a huge paycheck. I did think it would be easier to find a job than it was, but nobody lied to me and said that I was guaranteed something the day I graduated. And believe me, I got plenty frustrated. Whose fault was it that I didn't major in finance? Mine. Would I want to? Nope. I'm pretty sure I'd be miserable in a finance job, no matter how practical.

And getting information on different career paths, difficulties, etc. is really, really not hard. I've seen countless articles on MSN about this. It gets talked about on the nightly news. I would be absolutely astounded if a simple google search wouldn't provide some of the information that many college grads say they didn't know. Choosing not to think about it or worry about it is no excuse to blame others.

I have no desire to get nasty (and I've tried not to be insulting), but at some point, doesn't personal responsibility come into play? *rant over*

Exactly the point of my commentary, as well. :)

[Wolfpack21]

Here's the problem as I see it: colleges and universities lie and mislead students. There is no guidance or advising in any meaningful manner...if I had been told that choosing a liberal arts major would lead to difficulty in finding a job or securing a salary competitive with those in engineering or finance, I would not have selected it. I think college advisors need to stop telling kids/students "study what you love" and help them to find majors that lead to good jobs. I understand the merit behind studying your passion, but at the end of the day (and all that tuition) you need to get into the world and make some money!

Now, I have had to reinvest in studying accounting and business to make a decent salary...I love the fact that I can interpret literature, but I should have gone for a degree that pays! I am tired of being poor and watching people my age driving around in nice, new cars and having nice apartments while I scrape by.

I don't think they are misleading students. You can technically find a job with just about any college degree. That doesn't mean that the job will directly require use of your degree or pay well, but none the less it's a job. When I was in high school and I was thinking about college, I took a look at what jobs were available for the degrees I was interested in. So I guess you could say I did a little preliminary job searching before I even started college. My second year of college, I was surprised by how many kids were in majors and had no idea of job opportunities. It wasn't that they were told by the counselor that they would find jobs, it was simply that the students had not even looked or asked for themselves.

Remember a college is really a business with a different exterior and that's how many operate. They're providing a service for a fee. You can pick whatever you want to major in and as long as you're paying, they're not going to stop you.

If you spend four years in a major that you don't enjoy, but you think it'll make you $47,000 a year upon exit, then you may find yourself slacking senior year. You may not be putting in as much effort or be dedicated to the curriculum. A note about finance/business degrees is that you usually do at least one internship. That internship is usually your key in the door after graduation because you networked (hopefully) and made some solid contacts. People that go into investment banking for example really should enjoy what they do because 80-100hr weeks for five years is not easy at all.

I've got friends who are liberal arts majors and their GPAs are all over the board. The ones with 2.9s and completing their senior year still have dreams of top tier law school upon exit. The rest of them are looking at the Walmart Distribution center, Chilis, Outback, etc. The ones who picked easy majors because they're well connected know their dad's friend will slide them into a marketing/finance/business related job.

It's really just what you're comfortable with and what you want to do. For some people money doesn't really matter and they're cool with making a low salary with a job that fully uses their degree. For some people, in order to chase their passion there are trade offs and one of those trade offs could be money.

[biodork]

I've said it many times before but I fully believe that it isn't a college's duty to make sure you get a job after you graduate. My university provided plenty of seminars to prepare me for the real world. I chose not to go to them, so that is my own fault if I'm not prepared. Their only duty is to provide me with an education in the area I want to study. If you wanted to find an area of study that would provide the most jobs you should do your research beforehand. Yeah you might be young when you start, but it doesn't mean you can't check out statistics in what jobs will have the most potential for growth by the time you graduate.

And you know what? Maybe you choose that path and then when you graduate the market becomes staturated. Then what? It's not the school's fault that students graduate unprepared. It's your job to make sure you can handle the real world when the time comes.

[wordsmith]

It's really just what you're comfortable with and what you want to do. For some people money doesn't really matter and they're cool with making a low salary with a job that fully uses their degree. For some people, in order to chase their passion there are trade offs and one of those trade offs could be money.

I agree with the above. I do, however, dispute the implied assertion that if you hold a liberal arts-related degree, your job options are law school, warehouse work, or waiting tables.

[PenforPrez]

There is no guidance or advising in any meaningful manner...if I had been told that choosing a liberal arts major would lead to difficulty in finding a job or securing a salary competitive with those in engineering or finance, I would not have selected it.

College professors are the worst. My professors told me I could do ALL SORTS OF THINGS with my history degree. Strangely, I can never find any open positions in anything I'm supposed to be able to do. I do not find that the least bit ironic.

At the same time, our program was geared for grad school, so in a way, they were talking out of both sides of their mouth. I haven't gone back yet because I'm still clueless as to what I'd want to study.

I went to an engineering school; I knew right off that BA's don't make as much as engineers. The career center did a liberal arts "job seminar" every year (to give off the illusion they actually gave a damn about BA's) and said the same things.

Then they said history BA's averaged $27,000 starting out, and we laughed. Teachers in Missouri don't make $27k starting; in rural Missouri, not even close. I only dream of making $27,000. A dream I often feel I'll never acheive. :(

Paul

[springhaze]

I went to college to learn things, not so I could find a job. However, I researched career opportunities incessantly and tried to tailor my studies toward that end- only to change my mind halfway through my junior year. I graduated with a liberal arts degree (2 majors), and am going back to grad school specifically so I can pursue the career I ended up choosing (I'm getting a library science degree.) I never expected any information about what I should be doing for the rest of my life to come from my college, and I think it's really curious that some of you apparently feel that it should have. Yes, universities have resources to help you along with career exploration but their main obligation to their students is to educate them in whatever they choose to study, and that's it. What the students do with that education is up to them.

[lonestar]

My degree will get me to where I am going (hopefully)...however, I realize now that I would rather be doing something I despise and get paid than do something for low pay that I like...I took a gamble with a Liberal Arts degree and lost, so now I have to be retrained.

The problem for me is that so much of my personal value is tied up in income...I know that sounds incredibly shallow but that was the way I was raised...I have to worry constantly about how I measure up to my brothers and cousins that I really need to get ahead. I set benchmarks every year that, unfortunately when I miss them I perform cost-benefit analysis on the value of my life and make sure that my existence is even worthwhile.

So, I think that chosing liberal arts was maybe a mistake for me...I am not happy being imperfect in comparison to my rivals or being content.

[springhaze]

however, I realize now that I would rather be doing something I despise and get paid than do something for low pay that I like...

:eek: wow. See, I was raised by my parents to think "do something you love, even if it doesn't pay that much," so I have a hard time wrapping my head around this mindset. Good luck to you. :)

[wordsmith]

My degree will get me to where I am going (hopefully)...however, I realize now that I would rather be doing something I despise and get paid than do something for low pay that I like...I took a gamble with a Liberal Arts degree and lost, so now I have to be retrained.

The problem for me is that so much of my personal value is tied up in income...I know that sounds incredibly shallow but that was the way I was raised...I have to worry constantly about how I measure up to my brothers and cousins that I really need to get ahead. I set benchmarks every year that, unfortunately when I miss them I perform cost-benefit analysis on the value of my life and make sure that my existence is even worthwhile.

So, I think that chosing liberal arts was maybe a mistake for me...I am not happy being imperfect in comparison to my rivals or being content.

That's valid; at least, if it applies to you, it applies to you. (I'm sorry for you that you feel so much in competition and in a perpetual state of worrying about how you measure up, and that it comes down to questioning your personal value and the worthiness of your existence, but that's another discussion.)

But the fact remains (and what the past few posters' point is), it was still your choice. You've found that it doesn't work for you, fair enough. But you DID make the choice and others aren't probably to blame for that.

[wordsmith]

:eek: wow. See, I was raised by my parents to think "do something you love, even if it doesn't pay that much," so I have a hard time wrapping my head around this mindset. Good luck to you. :)

Ditto. I can't honestly imagine committing myself to doing something I despise and not having it pretty much destroy my life and all enjoyment of it, were I to go that route. But we could have the "What's more important, money or happiness, and do they have to be mutually exclusive" debate all day, to no real end. For some, money will be the bottom line over personal enjoyment, if it comes to choosing, and for others, the reverse is true. And everybody will rationalize and justify where they stand on that, but they'll likely not win anybody who doesn't feel the same over, anyway.

[LaFille]

i have a lot of mixed feeling about the views expressed on this thread. as an english major i understand the frustration of narrowing the field and figuring out what to do. for that reason, in desperate moments i wish i majored in accounting or nursing--then i would know i should be an accountant or nurse (never mind that i can't add and i'm scared of blood!) however, as an english major, i also have the freedom to change my mind about what i want to do pretty freely. i taught for a year, decided that wasnt my thing, now i'm looking for something else... as scary as that is, its exciting too. in college i never 'had no idea what i wanted to do.' in fact it was quite the opposite... i always had an idea in my head, its just that my ideas changed constantly as i learned new things and had new experiences.

here's the thing though... i think there is unprecedented pressure on our generation to be 'successful' sooner. think about it, our expectations of getting a bachelor's degree and being able to secure the job of our dreams and make top dollar are pretty unrealistic, and i think our parent's generation is partially to blame... they obviously want us to be more successful than them, probably not realizing the pressure they have put on us. when i think of my parents and their respective careers, it took them a LONG time to get to the point where they were in a secure path. i met a fiction writer the other day who said she majored in chemistry in undergrad. anyway, point being that i don't think it really 'comes together' for anyone in their early 20's (with exceptions, i admit) because we just dont have enough life experience to figure out lives out yet. whether we have it tougher than past generations or not is questionable, but no one ever said the years after college were going to be easy.

on that note, i think im going to rent 'reality bites' this weekend.

[workaholic?]

I'm going to come right out and say that I disagree with you. I get your point--it is not fun to struggle, and attempt, and maybe settle for a job, but I also wonder why the onus must be on the college/university, or the parents rather than the student--the person who ultimately makes the decision. Yes, other people/institutions provide advice, but it is up to the student to sort through that advice and make a decision. I was never under the impression that a liberal arts degree (IR, with a heavy concentration in history) would buy me a flashy job and a huge paycheck. I did think it would be easier to find a job than it was, but nobody lied to me and said that I was guaranteed something the day I graduated. And believe me, I got plenty frustrated. Whose fault was it that I didn't major in finance? Mine. Would I want to? Nope. I'm pretty sure I'd be miserable in a finance job, no matter how practical.

And getting information on different career paths, difficulties, etc. is really, really not hard. I've seen countless articles on MSN about this. It gets talked about on the nightly news. I would be absolutely astounded if a simple google search wouldn't provide some of the information that many college grads say they didn't know. Choosing not to think about it or worry about it is no excuse to blame others.

I have no desire to get nasty (and I've tried not to be insulting), but at some point, doesn't personal responsibility come into play? *rant over*


man, where were you and the others like wordsmith the other day when i said this same thing and was told i was being offensive?

[SpaceMonkey]

i have an honest question for those of you who went into liberal arts and have had trouble finding jobs. When you were deciding on your major, did you have a specific idea of what you wanted to do with it? For instance, did you know someone who had that same degree and held a specific job that you thought was cool and you wanted to do it, too? Or, did you just know you wanted to go into that "area" and figured the rest would work itself out?

Neither, really. I knew that I wanted to study politics and international relations, because that was what excited me. I didn't really know what "area" I wanted to go into after that, since those subjects are very broad. The actual path that I am pursuing right now has ended up being a combination of my academic interests, and my work experience as a student employee of my university (in development and fundraising). So it worked itself out, but I spent a year after graduation floundering and examining what my interests actually are. It was worth it.

[WorkInProgress]

man, where were you and the others like wordsmith the other day when i said this same thing and was told i was being offensive?

Dunno...if I had seen it, I'm sure I would have commented.

[yankeeyosh]

I'm going to come right out and say that I disagree with you. I get your point--it is not fun to struggle, and attempt, and maybe settle for a job, but I also wonder why the onus must be on the college/university, or the parents rather than the student--the person who ultimately makes the decision. Yes, other people/institutions provide advice, but it is up to the student to sort through that advice and make a decision. I was never under the impression that a liberal arts degree (IR, with a heavy concentration in history) would buy me a flashy job and a huge paycheck. I did think it would be easier to find a job than it was, but nobody lied to me and said that I was guaranteed something the day I graduated. And believe me, I got plenty frustrated. Whose fault was it that I didn't major in finance? Mine. Would I want to? Nope. I'm pretty sure I'd be miserable in a finance job, no matter how practical.

And getting information on different career paths, difficulties, etc. is really, really not hard. I've seen countless articles on MSN about this. It gets talked about on the nightly news. I would be absolutely astounded if a simple google search wouldn't provide some of the information that many college grads say they didn't know. Choosing not to think about it or worry about it is no excuse to blame others.

I have no desire to get nasty (and I've tried not to be insulting), but at some point, doesn't personal responsibility come into play? *rant over*

Right. One of the thing that bothers me about this generation is that we are quick to blame others when things don't go our way. If things don't go one's way, today's 23, 24, 25 year old (and parents) will be angry at the hiring manager, angry at the professor, etc. Look, I studied a field that I knew didn't have great demand, and things didn't turn out well in the end. Do I blame the schools for this? No. They just did what they had to. Yes, there wasn't much in the way of career development support in my department, which I think could have helped, but in terms of the overall experience, I dont' think they lied to me at all...a lot of other people became successful, so they must have done something right.

[EmberMae]

Here's the problem as I see it: colleges and universities lie and mislead students. There is no guidance or advising in any meaningful manner...if I had been told that choosing a liberal arts major would lead to difficulty in finding a job or securing a salary competitive with those in engineering or finance, I would not have selected it. I think college advisors need to stop telling kids/students "study what you love" and help them to find majors that lead to good jobs. I understand the merit behind studying your passion, but at the end of the day (and all that tuition) you need to get into the world and make some money!
Wow, I totally agree. I was technically an English major with a writing focus. I was told by my professors and academic/career advisors how much the business world needs people who can write, how many choices there are for people who can think and read critically and write well. You know what? It turned out to all be crap. Maybe it was just the year I graduated. Demand for new grads was at a 20-year low. Maybe it was the craptacular career office, which did nothing whatsoever besides provide job listings and give resume advice and mock interviews. Who knows. All I know is here I am, bitter, jaded, and feeling cheated. It's not even about money. I'd be glad to make 20k a year at this point. I just can't find a decent job. Thanks to the false starts I've had since graduation, I look like a job hopper. I don't have solid experience, or useful connections. I'm pretty much lost.

[cheshrcarol]

I totally agree with what others have said - college is there to educate you, but YOU have responsibility for choosing a career path and finding a job.

I have a degree in Journalism/Mass Communication and my plan was to work in PR or advertising after college. I figured I'd be making $30k. Not swimming in it but not poverty either. Well, when I graduated the tech bubble burst and that plan never happened. I ended up taking a job at a health insurance company in a call center making $21k. I made myself indispensable and learned everything I could. And yes, my communications skills WERE valued by my employer.

After a couple years I was laid off but I was able to combine my health insurance experience and my communications skills to get a job in healthcare publishing, making more money. And then last fall I was fired and I found another job, using all my previous experience, with another big bump in pay. I now make 75% more than I did when I first started out.

But anyways, my point is that you can't expect your dream job to fall in your lap a month after graduation. Your career is a PATH. You will not end up in the same place you started. The important thing is to get out there and get working and you'll make your way up the ladder.

[lonestar]

So then whats the answer for people like me who f**ked up royally and picked the wrong major...jump off a bridge I guess. I have been so depressed lately. :redface:

[yankeeyosh]

So then whats the answer for people like me who f**ked up royally and picked the wrong major...jump off a bridge I guess. I have been so depressed lately. :redface:

No, I don't think so. I mean, there are people who studied fields where there are ABSOLUTELY no jobs whatsoever other than perhaps teaching, and became very successful. The thing is you have to try and put a "spin" to what you studied, and make it relevant to the job you're studying for. I know that in January, when I start looking for another job, I'm going to look into fields that are not necessarily related to what I studied, but I'm going to look for something that is intellectually stimulating...and I will use my experiences at the graduate level to tell the hiring manager that I am very capable of doing high-level analytical work. Yes, it might be a different field, but I have to give it a shot.

[wordsmith]

i have an honest question for those of you who went into liberal arts and have had trouble finding jobs. When you were deciding on your major, did you have a specific idea of what you wanted to do with it? For instance, did you know someone who had that same degree and held a specific job that you thought was cool and you wanted to do it, too? Or, did you just know you wanted to go into that "area" and figured the rest would work itself out?

Yes...I went in wanting to teach high school English. Found out as a senior, student teaching, that, no, I didn't want to do that. Knew I'd always loved working with kids, knew I'd always loved writing. Each job I've had since getting my degree has related to one or the other or both.

[eko311]

Wow - I'm so surprised at the lack of perceived opportunity out in the "real world" with the liberal arts degree. Perhaps because I went to a liberal arts college, so I've got a totally different point of view.

The liberal arts major allows me to do SO much more than if I had gone to a school and picked engineering because I knew that I could get a job and make money. My degree (double majored in economics and family studies - like psych only looking at the world thru the lens of the family) has allowed me so many more opportunities, and I am excited at the possibilities that I have because I know that I can adapt and be conversational and competent in many different industries.

My school didn't even offer a business major, but a lot of my friends took the finance courses so that they'd be more marketable. I totally skipped all of the those and instead took a wide variety of courses, and I'm glad that I did. I used college as an opportunity to really explore what interested me because I knew that even if I was making good money, if I was miserable at my job the money wouldn't matter. Plus, I'd be giving myself a heart attack from stress too early in life and then what's the point?!

My interests lie in working with teenagers and certain areas of the business/finance world. Most of business I cannot stand, but there are enough opportunities where I live that I feel like I've lucked out in the job arena. And when I get financially comfortable enough, I'll likely jump into youth outreach related work. But the point is that with my degree I feel like I have tons of opportunities rather than being pigeonholed into one industry.

I think that the key to successfully finding a job is networking, living in a good area where there are a lot of possibilities, and having an open mind. I think that it's odd to blame a liberal arts degree for not getting a job when my entire school graduates 99% liberal arts majors (there are always, like, 15 nursing students and about 15 serious "bachelor of music" types) and if we all failed at finding jobs the school would be in serious trouble!!

[need2startover]

eko311 what do you do for work now? Do you think it is the economics part of your degree that has helped you or the family studies part?

[lonestar]

I studied English because I though I wanted to be a writer...I have tried to write and get published but I really want a different lifestyle...I should have realized that the "artistic" thing would make a total fucking loser in the eyes of my family...sometimes I really buy into it and I feel that had I picked something with more "outward" prestige or financial stability I would be just a tad more confident with myself.

Has anyone seen "Waiting..."...the point where the aquaintance from high school who is now an engineer comes into the restaurant and tips the guy $100 is sometimes how I feel when I am around engineering major friends...they have nice new cars and they pay for dinners because they know I don't make as much money. And so I have decided that my goals were misguided...

[wordsmith]

Wow - I'm so surprised at the lack of perceived opportunity out in the "real world" with the liberal arts degree. Perhaps because I went to a liberal arts college, so I've got a totally different point of view.

The liberal arts major allows me to do SO much more than if I had gone to a school and picked engineering because I knew that I could get a job and make money. My degree (double majored in economics and family studies - like psych only looking at the world thru the lens of the family) has allowed me so many more opportunities, and I am excited at the possibilities that I have because I know that I can adapt and be conversational and competent in many different industries.

My school didn't even offer a business major, but a lot of my friends took the finance courses so that they'd be more marketable. I totally skipped all of the those and instead took a wide variety of courses, and I'm glad that I did. I used college as an opportunity to really explore what interested me because I knew that even if I was making good money, if I was miserable at my job the money wouldn't matter. Plus, I'd be giving myself a heart attack from stress too early in life and then what's the point?!

I think that the key to successfully finding a job is networking, living in a good area where there are a lot of possibilities, and having an open mind. I think that it's odd to blame a liberal arts degree for not getting a job when my entire school graduates 99% liberal arts majors (there are always, like, 15 nursing students and about 15 serious "bachelor of music" types) and if we all failed at finding jobs the school would be in serious trouble!!


This is all the same for me.

[PenforPrez]

I think that the key to successfully finding a job is networking, living in a good area where there are a lot of possibilities, and having an open mind. I think that it's odd to blame a liberal arts degree for not getting a job when my entire school graduates 99% liberal arts majors (there are always, like, 15 nursing students and about 15 serious "bachelor of music" types) and if we all failed at finding jobs the school would be in serious trouble!!

I raise my own point again. Networking has NEVER worked for me at all; I've been trying it for four years, and I've had ONE person who actually helped me that way. I've done everything right. I've done everything I'm supposed to; I've developed relationships and given out what few contacts I have. That's all I've gotten. Nothing else works for me, either.

I'm four years out of college, and I've never even had an interview for a real job. I don't know what I want to pursue; I don't even know what I'm capable of working at anymore. I've asked people, I've done research; I'm still confused. I don't know how that's possible myself, but it is.

Everybody says I'm so bright and talented, and that only makes me feel worse. I just don't know what to do anymore.

Paul

[lonestar]

Well, in your case you just go out there and hit the pavement in places where jobs are available...it sounds from previous posts that there aren't many opportunities in your community. If that's true, it is imperative that you expand your search area or you will get nowhere...are there any small-mid size cities in your area? Jefferson City or Springfield? You are not going to get anywhere working for Wal-Mart, that's for damned sure.

[PenforPrez]

Well, in your case you just go out there and hit the pavement in places where jobs are available...it sounds from previous posts that there aren't many opportunities in your community. If that's true, it is imperative that you expand your search area or you will get nowhere...are there any small-mid size cities in your area? Jefferson City or Springfield? You are not going to get anywhere working for Wal-Mart, that's for damned sure.

I've been trying for four years to get a job in St. Louis, and I've never made an inch of progress. I never wanted to work around here; even I knew better than that. There's very little around here, and they don't want anybody with college experience for it.

I know I should branch out more, but I honestly don't know where I'd want to live or move to. I just thought, surely, in a city the size of St. Louis, I could have accomplished something, and gotten a start. Hasn't happened yet.

Paul

[lonestar]

I know everybody says to have a job before you move somewhere...but I didn't and it I found a dishwasher job within 20 days of moving to Austin and a better "office job" withing 2 months. So, in your case you might have to move somewhere first...unfortunately you will need a bit of money...I moved to Austin with $1500 and planned to use that money as an escape hatch back home if it didn't work out...in the end, the worst that can happen is you end up going back home knowing you gave it a shot...

[PenforPrez]

I know everybody says to have a job before you move somewhere...but I didn't and it I found a dishwasher job within 20 days of moving to Austin and a better "office job" withing 2 months. So, in your case you might have to move somewhere first...unfortunately you will need a bit of money...I moved to Austin with $1500 and planned to use that money as an escape hatch back home if it didn't work out...in the end, the worst that can happen is you end up going back home knowing you gave it a shot...

Well, my plan was similar. Save some money for two months rent or so; get a place with a roomate. Work up from there. I only live an hour away, so I was hoping to find something in STL and make it work that way. But that never worked out. :sad:

Paul

[paiger81]

LOL, when I was first looking for jobs in Corpus Christ, San Antonio & Austin, I would use addresses & phone numbers of friends that lived in those areas, even though I was living in Houston. So, if an potential job called, friends would just say "Oh she's not here right now, can I have her call you back".

And that is how I ended up getting my job. But, now that I'm looking for something else, in the same field, I find jobs are more interested in the fact that I know what I need to know, instead of where I'm located.

[PenforPrez]

LOL, when I was first looking for jobs in Corpus Christ, San Antonio & Austin, I would use addresses & phone numbers of friends that lived in those areas, even though I was living in Houston. So, if an potential job called, friends would just say "Oh she's not here right now, can I have her call you back".

And that is how I ended up getting my job. But, now that I'm looking for something else, in the same field, I find jobs are more interested in the fact that I know what I need to know, instead of where I'm located.

As much trouble as I've had trying to find a significant job, I fear I wouldn't be able to land a job in Shangri-La, much less a real place. Nothing has worked for me yet, four years and counting.

[kipper]

I graduated with a degree in pysch and found a job in public relations/marketing. It's possible to find work with any degree. But with anything it's always work to job search. I'm still trying to figure out what I want and a few years later I'm still taking new jobs and trying, but I don't blame my degree for not knowing what I want. I blame the lack of concentration on schools' teaching about the usefulness of your degree (you need to know what you can do with it to go out there and do it). I think education fails us on that.