more questions about MSW

[Raquel]

Being here has got me interested in Social Work instead of getting an M.A. in Counseling. My school just added a MSW program and I'm interested in applying to it. The problem is, is that it's at candidacy status instead of full accreditation by the CSWE. Does it matter?

here's the link to my school http://utsa.edu/copp/SW/socialwork.html

[winneythepooh7]

Do NOT go to a school of Social Work that is not accredited. In order to be considered a Social Worker and serve in this role, you have to have attended an accredited school of Social Work. I wouldn't play around with any place that is "in the process" because you are going to be the one to get screwed in the end, not them.

[mgoblue424]

my ex girlfriend got here MSW at the univ of texas in austin, and she really didnt like it much.

i guess the pay in texas for social workers is REALLY bad, and she was miserable. as far as accredidation, id wait til it was fully credentialed. no reason to pay for top dollar for something still jumping through hoops.

as for an MSW in gereral, look out for the claims of "direct practice." you spend all that time in school learning the art and science of the field, but nothing on the business end.

social work covers alot of ground, but doesnt really focus on one area, and they act as if they are allergic to money. i made the mistake of getting the degree to please my parents, which is a HUGE mistake.

"compassion fatigue" is also a huge issue for MSWs. very easy to get burned out, and even those that say they wont will experience at some time, usually things hit the fan when an economic crisis hits.

[winneythepooh7]

my ex girlfriend got here MSW at the univ of texas in austin, and she really didnt like it much.

i guess the pay in texas for social workers is REALLY bad, and she was miserable. as far as accredidation, id wait til it was fully credentialed. no reason to pay for top dollar for something still jumping through hoops.

as for an MSW in gereral, look out for the claims of "direct practice." you spend all that time in school learning the art and science of the field, but nothing on the business end.

social work covers alot of ground, but doesnt really focus on one area, and they act as if they are allergic to money. i made the mistake of getting the degree to please my parents, which is a HUGE mistake.

"compassion fatigue" is also a huge issue for MSWs. very easy to get burned out, and even those that say they wont will experience at some time, usually things hit the fan when an economic crisis hits.

A Master's SW program for the most part is only an INTRODUCTION to the field of Social Work; you learn the most in your specialty area and in your field placement. If you want to concentrate on Administration, you can concentrate on Administration your second year. And it goes with good saying to remember that most new Social Workers are NOT going to be administrators for a few years anyways. At best, they can look at middle-management supervisory roles, and that is only usually if you already have working experience under your belt. I don't want to step on your toes MGO but maybe since you don't like the field of Social Work and went into it "to please your parents" you should let Raquel get advice from people who are Social Workers who actually enjoy their work and have vast exposure to different types of populations ;).

[mgoblue424]

true enough. there are plenty who have grown dissatisfied with the field though in recent times. for differeing reasons, but it all comes down to the same fact. high burn out rate.

[wordsmith]

ALL human services have a high burnout rate. When you're dealing with people in some form of need, it's inevitable that you will eventually overload to some degree if you're not very, very careful, or have a setup that allows for frequent breaks and off to doing other tasks. Combined with the fact that these fields tend to attract empathetic sorts in the first place, it's a standard risk. When I was a youth worker, it was next to impossible not to mentally "take the children (and their sad home situations) home with me." It's an occupational hazard.

[winneythepooh7]

true enough. there are plenty who have grown dissatisfied with the field though in recent times. for differeing reasons, but it all comes down to the same fact. high burn out rate.

I disagree with that one. While with some populations/agencies there is high burn-out rate, people often leave the profession for other reasons. Sometimes to make more money. Sometimes to stay home and take care of their kids. Maybe to pursue another career. A big thing that one needs to keep in mind if they choose to go into this field, is that they need to advocate for their own best interests, just as they would for their clients. And another thing to keep in mind is that the field of human services is extremely diverse. There are so many things you can do with a MSW degree. You don't have to be closed in with one career path or population. I used to do clinical Social Work/therapy in the mental health field and hated it. I do community based SW, case management and supervison now and love it. It is fine to complain and vent about the negatives of the field, but there is nothing that I think is more upsetting for me as a Social Worker, when I see someone who is interested in this as a career, and then people come in and try to discourage them from going for it. Maybe it didn't work out for you, but that doesn't mean someone else might not be awesome at it.

[winneythepooh7]

"compassion fatigue" is also a huge issue for MSWs. very easy to get burned out, and even those that say they wont will experience at some time, usually things hit the fan when an economic crisis hits.


I don't think this is much different for many other fields, either. It is hard not to get stressed out when most people in any field are not making a ton of money. And most other fields are stressful and deal with people as well.

[mgoblue424]

I don't think this is much different for many other fields, either. It is hard not to get stressed out when most people in any field are not making a ton of money. And most other fields are stressful and deal with people as well.


it is when someone starts talking about killing themselves.



every job has stress. some are moreso than others. of course, looking back i think i was looking for a reason not to continue in the field. just my two cents.

[winneythepooh7]

it is when someone starts talking about killing themselves.



every job has stress. some are moreso than others. of course, looking back i think i was looking for a reason not to continue in the field. just my two cents.

And it is probably best that you realized that sooner rather than later. Again, nothing against you but it never ceases to amaze me the people working in this field who should not be. That is everyone from entry-level direct care staff up to state level.

[mgoblue424]

And it is probably best that you realized that sooner rather than later. Again, nothing against you but it never ceases to amaze me the people working in this field who should not be. That is everyone from entry-level direct care staff up to state level.

none taken. the problem is you get people who want to do something that the training doesnt really provide for. somehow my dad made a great living as a therapist. however i think he may have used some dubious methods to do it.

i was well thought of at the hospital. however, given the changing nature of things and insurance companies becoming tighter with money all the time, i realized i jumped in too naively. then i looked at the staff of a youth facility where i worked part time and how things had taken a toll on them. they'd willingly admit they wish they had gone another path.

so better late than never. now its just a matter of finding a new path.

[winneythepooh7]

Sometimes I wonder how things would have turned out for me if I went down another path, however, I am really happy at my current job. I wish I made more money, but in the grand scheme of things, I pretty much make an average salary for my area which is across the board standard for many fields. I also know my limitations and I could never work in a hospital. I've dealt with the bureacracy of pushing people out too soon because of insurance reasons, and then hospitals blaming us as the clinical team when the client is right back a couple of days later. Something to keep in mind as well, is a hospital is a host setting. That's why Social Workers often get so burnt out because people who are not Social Workers are often supervising them (ie. doctors, nurses, insurance companies) and telling them their job and what they should be doing, which is often unethical kinds of things. I don't know what the solution is. I guess it's ongoing education about our field, but you also have to find people from the other fields who are receptive to it.........in many cases they are not. Oh, back to the money issue, you can live comfortably on a SW salary, and ultimately do pretty well. It just takes time, like any field. And SW is a business. You learn a ton of business skills being in SW.

[mgoblue424]

well, i was at the outpatient side. psychotherapy is a difficult field under the best of circumstances. and for a private practice, next to nearly impossible to get going. how my dad did it i will never know. the cost/benefit breakdown for me is no longer there though.

its a long story, as i said. i was pretty bored in grad school actually, and always had the thought in the back of my mind iwas making a mistake. it boils down to more of issues with me and my family than anything else. if that is what you want, go for it.

i did get some practical advice from an "old timer" in the program (he must have been at least 60), saying that the problem with the young people in the program is they havent seen enough of the field. i kind of scoffed at that opinion, but now looking back, i would have to agree.

[winneythepooh7]

Well, I have been reading lots of articles as of late about how easy it USED to be to get a private practice going. These days with the way insurance is so f*ed up I can see the decline in this area. And your "old timer" friend is quite correct. I remember when I was first starting out, even before I got my MSW, I belonged to many different listserv groups and I used to get annoyed by the "old timers" who knew so much and made those of us going into the field feel inferior. But knowing what I know now as well, they were right. Granted, some of them don't always go about it the right way, and make you feel like a slug because they know more, but I do see so many people trying to break into the field EXPECTING to start at a Director position. It isn't going to happen. AND the SW field is extremely flooded right now. It's an employer's market, coupled with the fact of budget cuts and all that good stuff, no agencies are really in a rush to hire. It's just easier to divide up the work amongst the staff already employed and not pay anymore.

[mgoblue424]

or just cut everybody. the hospital's O/P dept laid off something like over half the masters staff in two years in three diff. clinics and eliminated a fourth. and idont see it reversing anytime soon if at all.

[winneythepooh7]

Well, again and back to the OP's question, these are even more reasons why one should apply to an accredited school of SW. If people who have a degree from an accredited school are having problems, it will be even worse for someone who is not recognized as a Social Worker. That's a whole other topic though I could go on about for days however.............

[wordsmith]

That's why Social Workers often get so burnt out because people who are not Social Workers are often supervising them (ie. doctors, nurses, insurance companies) and telling them their job and what they should be doing, which is often unethical kinds of things.

This is very true.

[winneythepooh7]

I am actually working on an article right now that I want to submit to one of my SW mags about the "Social Work Job Search". A big part of what I am writing about, is that I think that many people are unaware about all of the different populations and problems within the systems. Regarding my quoted comment by Words, this was a big reason I left my last job. I worked in mental health, on an ACT team. I had other Social Workers, and people BELOW Social Workers, like Case Managers and such, telling me what my job was constantly. Many of them had never met my clients, yet they wanted to come up with a plan that I HAD TO FOLLOW for the client's "best interest". If they didn't get me on the phone right away, or if I told them I wasn't going to do what they were asking, they would immediately not call my supervisor, but they would call HIS boss to complain. I used to literally leave there at least once a week in tears. If I didn't leave the office in tears I was crying to my family or taking it out on my boyfriend. It's a shame too, because there are so many GOOD Social Workers who have no problems with the actual clients, but the wackadoo "professionals" they have to interact with daily, and this is why everything is so F*ed up and there are so many problems that keep happening and nothing ever gets accomplished. If we could all just work together across ALL of the systems things actually might head into a positive direction.............

[mgoblue424]

If we could all just work together across ALL of the systems things actually might head into a positive direction.............


fat chance of that happening. after being laid off and coming back on board, the clinic i was reassigned to had all sorts of problems with others coming in and dictating how they thought treatment should go for others.

i kept a happy face on as best as i could, but finally i had to admit i was in over the head, and that the clinic i was at was one of the BETTER ones in the area. and that it wasnt going to get better.


as for how people could even attract enough people to make a PP viable is beyond me. i admit im just not charming enough to do it.


ugh. why couldnt i have been born into a family of accountants? same stress, better pay.

[coolfrequency]

it is when someone starts talking about killing themselves.



every job has stress. some are moreso than others. of course, looking back i think i was looking for a reason not to continue in the field. just my two cents.

heh...that's all I do...talk to people who want to kill themselves. I work a crisis line. Oddly enough, it doesn't stress me very much. Maybe part of it is that I do what I can do while on the call, then once the call ends, it's out of my hands. Whereas as a therapist, you have this ongoing relationship and responsibility to the client.

But I've just developed this perspective...if they want the help, they'll get the help (assuming of course that I don't completely screw up in offering them help when they ask for it). If they are really determined to kill themselves, then they'll do it, and there's nothing I could have done either way to change that.

So, I go through the steps...I ask them if they've thought about how they will kill themselves, I ask if they have access to the pills/knife/whatever that they would use, I ask them if they've thought about when exactly they will carry out their plan. If they have answers to all the above questions, I try to get whatever contact info I can on them, I try to get them to come in to our 24 hr crisis psychiatric center, if they won't or can't come then I try to get them to agree to our mobile crisis team going out to them, if not I call the police to bring them in. I take a follow up form and I give them a call back in a day or two to make sure that they did in fact come to the crisis center and get the help they need.

And that's all I can do. I did my best, and if they wanted help they'll be fine. I don't worry about them any more, because if the worst case scenario happens and they killed themselves, then there probably wasn't anything I could have done to prevent it.

Cynical? Cold? I don't think I am...just, practical and matter of fact about it. You have to be. I think experience dealing with a suicidal population also tends to reduce the amount of panic you feel when faced with someone who feels suicidal.

[coolfrequency]

I am actually working on an article right now that I want to submit to one of my SW mags about the "Social Work Job Search". A big part of what I am writing about, is that I think that many people are unaware about all of the different populations and problems within the systems. Regarding my quoted comment by Words, this was a big reason I left my last job. I worked in mental health, on an ACT team. I had other Social Workers, and people BELOW Social Workers, like Case Managers and such, telling me what my job was constantly. Many of them had never met my clients, yet they wanted to come up with a plan that I HAD TO FOLLOW for the client's "best interest". If they didn't get me on the phone right away, or if I told them I wasn't going to do what they were asking, they would immediately not call my supervisor, but they would call HIS boss to complain. I used to literally leave there at least once a week in tears. If I didn't leave the office in tears I was crying to my family or taking it out on my boyfriend. It's a shame too, because there are so many GOOD Social Workers who have no problems with the actual clients, but the wackadoo "professionals" they have to interact with daily, and this is why everything is so F*ed up and there are so many problems that keep happening and nothing ever gets accomplished. If we could all just work together across ALL of the systems things actually might head into a positive direction.............

oh I can only imagine. Calls from members of our Act team are some of our more, uhm, "special" people...it's stressful just to try to figure out what's going on with them, enough to get them in touch with the act team. I'm always so happy that it's out of my hands and into the Act team's hands, to deal with them....you couldn't ever pay me enough to work on an act team. They have such severely, serious needs...can't even imagine how much work it would be to handle a population like that.

[wordsmith]

You HAVE TO BE matter of fact and clinical about it when it's your job. You'd go off the deep end if you didn't steel yourself somehow.

[mgoblue424]

You HAVE TO BE matter of fact and clinical about it when it's your job. You'd go off the deep end if you didn't steel yourself somehow.

hence burnout.


i think i was pretty good at keeping distance. finally what did me in were the economics. the field's not what it once was.

they had us read this book called UNFAITHFUL ANGELS re: social work losing its way. it never really addressed the economic underpinnings.

oh well, live and learn.

[wordsmith]

I personally think that dealing with red tape and bureacracy is more of a deterrant to getting people to stick with human services than the money is, to be perfectly honest. I think with a lot of people who are dedicated to the cause, they'd actually be more inclined to take it on the chin with the subpar pay, were the job itself not made so ridiculously difficult and convoluted by bullshit, policy, paper trails, hold harmless agreements, asscovering supervisors, etc.

[mgoblue424]

yeah, well when you have to wait three-six months or longer to get paid for a one hour service, and the pay rate is from 15-60 dollars usually, and you spend three times as much time to document it than to actually do it, youd see that as a dis-incentive as well.

another poster said she worked for an insurer and was told to drag her feet. and im sure thats not just in this field.

regardless, i am through with the field. it drained me dry.

[wordsmith]

Case in point.

[mgoblue424]

i think it took having some relative measure of success in the field and then having my keister handed to me to see the error of my ways.

[winneythepooh7]

[QUOTE=mgoblue424]yeah, well when you have to wait three-six months or longer to get paid for a one hour service, and the pay rate is from 15-60 dollars usually, and you spend three times as much time to document it than to actually do it, youd see that as a dis-incentive as well.

QUOTE]

The average Social Worker, especially in the 20-something range, does not have to worry about this. When you are first starting out, you are getting your experience in an agency, hospital, etc. not doing private practice. At least I hope not anyways............Some people I know as well do pay scales so they don't have to worry about insurance companies.

[Raquel]

I think that is one of the things that scares me about the field of SW is dealing with compassion fatigue. I have friends who are forlorn and that has really posed some questions about what I want to do with my future.

Do you guys learn skills to separate work from your own life.

[mgoblue424]

up until the big crunch came i always saw myself as being good with distance between work and social. however on some levels they will always mix. its certainly not a field to jump into if youre ambivalent about it. of course, no field is.

[winneythepooh7]

I think that is one of the things that scares me about the field of SW is dealing with compassion fatigue. I have friends who are forlorn and that has really posed some questions about what I want to do with my future.

Do you guys learn skills to separate work from your own life.

Again, it depends on the population/job you take on. A lot of times (like at any job) it is trial and error for you to find a good match. I have a good balance where I am now. However, my clients are also very high functioning, independent, have good support systems and rarely have mental health crises. If you choose to work in the mental health field, expect your own mental health to be a risk. These programs are grossly understaffed and underfunded, and the mental health system in general is a huge bureacracy. I really haven't worked with children either, but from what I hear, this is another "system" where you run the risk. Basically, a way to look at it, is any group that is extremely vulnerable or perceived as a threat to self/society, it will affect you a lot at times. You are going to be expected to be the "savior" for these people, who, I ain't gonna lie, are often beyond help. Often a lot of people you may see, you are not going to be able to do a whole lot for them. You need to remember this at the end of the day to seperate yourself from "the work". Again, it also comes down to research though. You want to research all of this stuff before you take a job. A lot of jobs these days will also expect you to be "on call". Raquel, there are also plenty of online SW discussion groups out there that can answer your questions. Try yahoo groups or Myspace groups. AND the most important thing to remember as well going into this field is to keep an open mind. I know my limitations, and can't work with the severe mentally ill anymore. However, another person may love this population and want to make working with them a lifelong career. Other SW's can guide you and offer you advice, but honestly, you need to jump in and decide for yourself where you feel most comfortable.