Update: PhD in political science

[bmy78]

Hello everyone,

Well I had been applying to graduate programs in political science and international relations. I got into the PhD poli sci program at The City University of New York. No money, though. I also got into American University's MA in International Affairs program down in D.C. Didn't offer a financial aid package other than loans, though, which is fine because it's a MA program. However, I've decided that I'm going to decline the MA offer and go with the PhD program at CUNY because:

1. It looks like it will actually cost less than AU, even though it's much longer.
2. I get a PhD out of the deal versus only an MA.
3. Both my gf and I live in the NYC area so it would be terribly difficult for us to move to DC.

So what are my concerns? I'm concerned that I'm too old to be starting a PhD program, even though I'm 27. I'm concerned that, although I work full-time and will continue to do so during this program, I won't be able to financially support the future my gf and I both want (mortgage, marriage, kids, etc.). I'm concerned that...well, I guess those are my two biggest concerns. That and also I'm concerned about racking up too much debt.

So basically what I'm asking is that I'm wondering about my future career. I'd like to teach in an academic setting. That's a ways off. In the meantime, I hope to make contacts within the program to land a better-paying job, at least while I'm in grad school. Do you think this is possible, and do you or someone you know landed a decent-paying full-time position because of contacts fostered through grad school?

Thanks.

[yankeeyosh]

Congrats! :)

In terms of yoour age, I wouldn't worry too much about that. The average grad student in the US is in their early 30s, so you're still below that level. In terms of debt, well, that's grad school. I would definitely try to get contacts. At the very least, if you're persistent, you could eventually get an assistantship.

[and1grad]

One of my former co-workers was closing in on 40 before he STARTED med school. He's also married with 3 kids. You are NOT too old.

[-TitanMatt]

Hello everyone,

Well I had been applying to graduate programs in political science and international relations. I got into the PhD poli sci program at The City University of New York. No money, though. I also got into American University's MA in International Affairs program down in D.C. Didn't offer a financial aid package other than loans, though, which is fine because it's a MA program. However, I've decided that I'm going to decline the MA offer and go with the PhD program at CUNY because:

1. It looks like it will actually cost less than AU, even though it's much longer.
2. I get a PhD out of the deal versus only an MA.
3. Both my gf and I live in the NYC area so it would be terribly difficult for us to move to DC.

So what are my concerns? I'm concerned that I'm too old to be starting a PhD program, even though I'm 27. I'm concerned that, although I work full-time and will continue to do so during this program, I won't be able to financially support the future my gf and I both want (mortgage, marriage, kids, etc.). I'm concerned that...well, I guess those are my two biggest concerns. That and also I'm concerned about racking up too much debt.

So basically what I'm asking is that I'm wondering about my future career. I'd like to teach in an academic setting. That's a ways off. In the meantime, I hope to make contacts within the program to land a better-paying job, at least while I'm in grad school. Do you think this is possible, and do you or someone you know landed a decent-paying full-time position because of contacts fostered through grad school?

Thanks.

Bmy 78

Between all of the following:

1. Gas prices on there way to $4 or $5
2. Terrorism
3. Climate change/radical weather ala Hurrican Katrina
4. Bush spending the economy into the ground
5. Unsustainable levels of debt throughout the entire economy:

etc. . .. you have to consider the possiblity (probablity I'd say) of a MAJOR economic downturn in the short-to-medium future. If that happens prior to you getting tenure at a major schoool (if that ever happens) what will you do? How in demand will poli sci PHDs be in a long term recession or second Great Depression?

-TM

[-TitanMatt]

BMY 78,

I just read one of your previous posts. Are you sure you're not enrolling in a PHD program just so you can feel like you're "moving in the right direction" or something like that? In other words, is this an emotional based decision made because you're feeling a bit inferior for whatever reason? (reasons all of us feel to some extent that's why we're here on QLC) Like if you start a PHD program it might be good for short term ego/self-image reasons? Personally, I think it's a really bad decision money-wise for the long term but that's just me.

-TM

[bmy78]

TM-

Thanks for your reply. Having said that, your mention on deciding on a career based on short-term effects rather than long-term, satisfying, meaningful goals would be in error. They really don't have much to do with each other (except for fostering additional jobs/contacts in policy, government, etc.) Unless of course, the apocalypse is coming in ~10 years, then we're all screwed, so why not?

I'm going for a PhD. because everything seems to point in that direction (my interests, my desires to learn, frankly I've never felt more content when I was learning in college). The only thing that worries me is the money--a very big issue but I'm hoping I'll be able to make some contacts and find some jobs along the way.

[-TitanMatt]

TM-

Thanks for your reply. Having said that, your mention on deciding on a career based on short-term effects rather than long-term, satisfying, meaningful goals would be in error. They really don't have much to do with each other (except for fostering additional jobs/contacts in policy, government, etc.) Unless of course, the apocalypse is coming in ~10 years, then we're all screwed, so why not?

I'm going for a PhD. because everything seems to point in that direction (my interests, my desires to learn, frankly I've never felt more content when I was learning in college). The only thing that worries me is the money--a very big issue but I'm hoping I'll be able to make some contacts and find some jobs along the way.

Let's say a second Great or even GreatER Depression hits in the next 5-10 years and lasts 15 years. That means you will spend your prime earning years armed with a poli sci PHD and shackled by considerable debt. If you pay attention to world events and read beyond just the NY Times you have to think this is a possibility if not a probability.

I think you're setting yourself up for a very tragic financial situation. But hey, that's just my opinion but you're welcome to it.

Read the following:

The Long Emergency by Jamew Howard Kunstler
The Coming Economic Collapse by Stephen Leeb
The Hirsch Report (just google it, its free)

Then make your decision.

-TM

[J-girl]

TitanicMatt- I dont think thats true. The only saviour in these tough times reaearch and more research- in ALL fields.

And yes the two may have some cause-effect but not direct.

to the OP- do what you want to do. You might want to finish off your Phd now than wait till later.

[bmy78]

So what exactly should I do to prepare for the so-called "imminent" disaster? Build a bomb shelter? Start extorting money from others? Stockpile gold? Or should I do something I love?

Believe me I've read plenty of doomsday books but so far the only message that's consistent here is that there will always be people writing books about the next doomsday for those who are susceptible to believing them. Many people have been predicting the death of the American Republic even before its inception (18th century economic debt, Shay's Rebellion, Alien/Sedition acts, Native American invasions, English takeovers, slavery, economic depression, Nazism, Communism, nuclear armageddon, and now supposedly annihilation through environmental disasters, whether from global warming/cooling, massive oil shortages or asteroids). Are the abovementioned possible? Sure? Are they likely? I think that's quite a stretch.

Believe me, I'm very open to suggestions but not when you're telling me I should forego my dreams because of doomsday scenarios that might happen in the future. Based on your advice, we should all go build a log cabin somewhere in the depths of Oregon and hunt/grow our own food Ted Nugent-style. Sorry but I'm not willing to do that.

A great book you might want to check out is "The Ultimate Resource" by Julian Simon. It was published a little while ago but its tenets still ring true today.

[J-girl]

And besides who comes up with those very facts he mentioned- do people pull em out of their asses? No its RESEARCH!

[-TitanMatt]

So what exactly should I do to prepare for the so-called "imminent" disaster? Build a bomb shelter? Start extorting money from others? Stockpile gold? Or should I do something I love?

Believe me I've read plenty of doomsday books but so far the only message that's consistent here is that there will always be people writing books about the next doomsday for those who are susceptible to believing them. Many people have been predicting the death of the American Republic even before its inception (18th century economic debt, Shay's Rebellion, Alien/Sedition acts, Native American invasions, English takeovers, slavery, economic depression, Nazism, Communism, nuclear armageddon, and now supposedly annihilation through environmental disasters, whether from global warming/cooling, massive oil shortages or asteroids). Are the abovementioned possible? Sure? Are they likely? I think that's quite a stretch.

Believe me, I'm very open to suggestions but not when you're telling me I should forego my dreams because of doomsday scenarios that might happen in the future. Based on your advice, we should all go build a log cabin somewhere in the depths of Oregon and hunt/grow our own food Ted Nugent-style. Sorry but I'm not willing to do that.

A great book you might want to check out is "The Ultimate Resource" by Julian Simon. It was published a little while ago but its tenets still ring true today.

Nice set of straw man arguments. Read this piece from Fortune magazine on what one of W.'s business partner's thinks is coming this way:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2005/12/26/8364646/

When Bush's business partner pulls $500 million out of the market because he expects the biggest meltdown in history that should tell you something bad is coming this way. My guess is it's going to hit us peasents a lot worse than it will hit him.

At least you won't be able to say you weren't warned.

TM

[-TitanMatt]

TitanicMatt- I dont think thats true. The only saviour in these tough times reaearch and more research- in ALL fields.

And yes the two may have some cause-effect but not direct.

to the OP- do what you want to do. You might want to finish off your Phd now than wait till later.

That's very true. Problem for the op is he's going to be shackled with tons of debt and not the most pragmatic degree just as we are entering a possible GreatER Depression?

Can we solve these problems? Of course, but these are 20-25 year type dislocations we're talking about. The OP is walking straight into a financial minefield if you ask me, which he did by posting here (he's asking all of us.)

TM

[-TitanMatt]

So what exactly should I do to prepare for the so-called "imminent" disaster? Build a bomb shelter? Start extorting money from others? Stockpile gold? .

I've been reading along these lines and have made a ton of money in gold and silver the past two years. Had you invested some of your income in silver when it was $4 just a few years ago you could have sold it as it went from $4 to $8 to as high as $14.50 last week and used that money to move out of your dad's place AND pay for your eduction. Same for gold which was $400 two years ago and now has gone past $600.

In the post-9/11 era, it doesn't and shouldn't take a genius to figure these things out, particularly when you have google and can research things the way you can these days. Why are gold and silver doing so well? Because there are a lot of disasters currently unfolding in things like energy, the environement, the war on terror, etc. and none of them are going to get appriecably better in the short to medium timeframe. Anybody with their head not firmly entrenched in their ass could have seen by the summer of 2003 that things like gold, silver, etc would be appreciating greatly in the next few years. W is arugably the biggest slow motion catastrophe in American history. Gold/silver do well in times of catastrophe. In other news, 2 plus 2 equals 4.

But because you refuse to see what is happening you are missing on opportunities to improve your situation and quite possibly setting yourself up for a lot more pain and anguish in the future. The gold/silver thing is just one example. I point it out because you refer to gold derisively while not seeming to realize that had you invested a bit in it you wouldn't have some of the problems you have right now.

Basically what I'm trying to say is you are navigating your life with some massive blindspots and/or a horribly inaccuarate map of reality, one drawn up for you by people like Julian Simon. You're fixin to walk into financial quicksand but since Simon says the ultimate resource is your brain you assume you will be able to pull yourself out of it. You better hope and pray like hell he's correct.

Just trying to help you out.

-TM

[bmy78]

TM--
You're responses aren't exactly helpful, you are just emphasizing the so-called impending doom about to erupt. Did you offer any advice other than what NOT to do?

I really don't want to get into a discussion about whether the economic system is going to collapse, global warming is going to propel us into another ice age, or nuclear armaggedon is about to occur--that is beyond the scope of this discussion. If that is so, there's nothing much you can do about it. If the 2nd depression occurs, do you think those little pieces of paper dictating how much gold you own will be liquitable? Hell, in the 1st great depression people lost their savings because banks ran out of money and couldn't pay them. You think the federal gov't will have enough money to bail everyone ou? Sorry, but if worst-case scenario happened, your FDIC-insured savings will amount to nill.

Sure, oil was 99 cents a gallon and gold was uber-cheap in '99. Tech stocks were overinflated too. Then 2001 came. Tech stocks plummeted. Did we all die? No, we all survived. Despite oil prices and Bush incompetence, the economy is doing pretty well at the moment. Remember 2000 when planes were going to fall out of the sky, pacemakers were supposed to stop, banks/ATMs, computers, anything remotely connected electronically was going to shut down? Former computer programmers who left their jobs to settle in the woods eating from tin cans were interviewing CNN journalists because they thought these systems would cripple our system? Did that happen? NO.

If you want to believe a billionaire simply because he's a billionaire, fine. I, however, do not want to research blogs endlessly and obsess about doomsday scenarios that have been around since the beginning of time. If I wanted to work on Wall Street, I'd go to Wall Street, it's only a few subway stops away from where I work now.

Thanks TM, you've now gotten me on a rant and completely off-topic from what I wanted from this thread. Next time, if you want to give advice please actually give advice, rather than talk about what "should have been done" or what one "should NOT do."

[-TitanMatt]

TM--
You're responses aren't exactly helpful, you are just emphasizing the so-called impending doom about to erupt. Did you offer any advice other than what NOT to do?

I really don't want to get into a discussion about whether the economic system is going to collapse, global warming is going to propel us into another ice age, or nuclear armaggedon is about to occur--that is beyond the scope of this discussion. If that is so, there's nothing much you can do about it. If the 2nd depression occurs, do you think those little pieces of paper dictating how much gold you own will be liquitable? Hell, in the 1st great depression people lost their savings because banks ran out of money and couldn't pay them. You think the federal gov't will have enough money to bail everyone ou? Sorry, but if worst-case scenario happened, your FDIC-insured savings will amount to nill.

Sure, oil was 99 cents a gallon and gold was uber-cheap in '99. Tech stocks were overinflated too. Then 2001 came. Tech stocks plummeted. Did we all die? No, we all survived. Despite oil prices and Bush incompetence, the economy is doing pretty well at the moment. Remember 2000 when planes were going to fall out of the sky, pacemakers were supposed to stop, banks/ATMs, computers, anything remotely connected electronically was going to shut down? Former computer programmers who left their jobs to settle in the woods eating from tin cans were interviewing CNN journalists because they thought these systems would cripple our system? Did that happen? NO.

If you want to believe a billionaire simply because he's a billionaire, fine. I, however, do not want to research blogs endlessly and obsess about doomsday scenarios that have been around since the beginning of time. If I wanted to work on Wall Street, I'd go to Wall Street, it's only a few subway stops away from where I work now.

Thanks TM, you've now gotten me on a rant and completely off-topic from what I wanted from this thread. Next time, if you want to give advice please actually give advice, rather than talk about what "should have been done" or what one "should NOT do."

I'll end by saying this is what I see in your future given the path you are currently on (you can change of course):

1. You start your PHD program.

2. Economy starts to slow down

3. Slow down becomes a depresstion

4. You graduate with a ton of debt but no job prospects that allow you to both pay your debt and have a decent lifestyle

5. The financial problems create tremendous stress and put a strain on your relationship with your girlfriend.

6. She leaves you for some guy who didn't screw his life up so bad.

7. You become horribly depressed.

8. Eventually, the economy picks up. By now you're pushing 50.

9. You log on to http://www.midlifecrisis.com to bitch and moan and ask for advice.

10. You get some good advice but ignore it.

11. You enter your golden years depressed, lonely, and poor.

But like I said, you can always change the path you're on. That's all from me.

-TM

[bmy78]

Hah! Once again, you fail to offer any alternatives rather than what I should not do. So tell, me Mr. Whiz, what should I do? Buy gold and silver at all time highs? Isn't the financial mantra buy low, sell high? I highly doubt gold and silver will remain this high for much longer, probably will go down considering our economy is moving upward again.

You also assume to know something about my girlfriend. You don't. Please don't mention her.

I'm also planning on working full-time while going to school part-time. I'm not leaving my job without taking another one. My massive debt won't exceed 30-40K and I will most likely foster connections that will lead to careers other than teaching (working at NGOs, UN, consulting, writing, etc.).

[-TitanMatt]

Hah! Once again, you fail to offer any alternatives rather than what I should not do. So tell, me Mr. Whiz, what should I do? Buy gold and silver at all time highs? Isn't the financial mantra buy low, sell high? I highly doubt gold and silver will remain this high for much longer, probably will go down considering our economy is moving upward again.

You also assume to know something about my girlfriend. You don't. Please don't mention her.

I'm also planning on working full-time while going to school part-time. I'm not leaving my job without taking another one. My massive debt won't exceed 30-40K and I will most likely foster connections that will lead to careers other than teaching (working at NGOs, UN, consulting, writing, etc.).

Bmy 78,

If you truly believed that you wouldn't be here expressing your conncers about whether pursuing your PHD is a fiscally prudent thing to do at this juncture.

I don't know anything about your girlfriend, but I do know that stress from financial issues is one of the top, if not the number 1 reason, for relationships ending. You're putting yourself in a position where you are going to have major financial problems which means you're putting the relationship at risk.

You're right in that I don't have an idea about what you should do. But I think your current path will ultimately be a financially tragic one. Thus, you are better off doing nothing for the time being or simply staying put until you do a bit more planning and research. You suggest I imply you should "run to the hills." Not at all, I don't know if that would be a good idea or not. But I do feel your current plan is akin to shooting yourself in the foot, which is never a good idea. I'm suggesting you put the gun down and you're getting upset about it.

As far as the ecnomy being strong and moving in the right direction: if that were truly the case somebody such as yourself, a highly motivated and highly educated young man, would not still be living at home.

TM

[wordsmith]

One of my former co-workers was closing in on 40 before he STARTED med school. He's also married with 3 kids. You are NOT too old.

I would agree. One of my favorite professors didn't even start her PhD program until after her daughters were grown and out of college themselves. She was 50-ish when she started her doctorate.

[labrat2111]

Hah! Once again, you fail to offer any alternatives rather than what I should not do. So tell, me Mr. Whiz, what should I do? Buy gold and silver at all time highs? Isn't the financial mantra buy low, sell high? I highly doubt gold and silver will remain this high for much longer, probably will go down considering our economy is moving upward again.


Well I'm just getting into gold and silver. Silver and gold are at nominally high values now but that is without inflation being taken into account. One article I read mentioned the median price for a car being 7K and a house being 76K back in 1980 when gold and silver were that high. Of course today a median price for a car would be more like 15K and a house being 200K+. Now anyone can argue exact numbers but we all know there has been significant inflation in the last 25 years.

When you take inflation into account the real value of gold in 1980 was around $2100/ounce and a similiar high value for silver. So I am thinking gold and silver will continue to rise (although having a bumpy ride on the way up) over the long term. This administration's fiscal policies are bankrupting our country and with the end of interest rate increases our dollar is going to lose more value (inflation) so the prices of gold and silver will likely continue to rise. Also if asian investors start getting rid of US treasuries that would weaken the dollar further. I'm just waiting for a correction in the price of silver with another rate increase/stabilization of oil prices to buy some more with my limited resources at the moment.

[J-girl]

Am I the only one who thinks this thread is getting wayyyy off topic?

[bmy78]

TM--I've done my homework. CUNY poli sci is currently ranked #47 among graduate poli sci departments of universities around the world. It's not top 20 but it's not at the bottom either. The current unemployment rate is around 4.7%. Unemployment among PhD-holders is around 1%. Obviously this number isn't all-revealing because job prospects among PhDs in biochemistry are much better outside of academia than say, the classics or art history. It also doesn't reveal how many of those PhDs are underemployed (serving coffee at Starbucks--hopefully not many) Political science is a social science and has more utility than most other humanities such as the abovementioned. Still, job prospects outside academia aren't as plentiful than other social sciences, such as economics or psychology. But there are opportunities in political science/international relations in government work, NGOs. CUNY has a number of projects with the UN and apparently Kofi Annan knows a few of the professors as well. They've got some interesting prospects and after a year I'm able to take classes within a consortium from other universities (including Columbia, Rutgers, Princeton). The CUNY Grad Center is a consortium of CUNY colleges and they pull profs from these other schools, but if one has an entrepreneurial spirit it offers lots of opportunities, especially a Writing Politics specialization, which fosters students to query non-academic publications and write articles, op-ed pieces and so forth. They have plenty of professional skills seminars and, being in the heart of NYC, I imagine the opportunity to network is great.

I think the biggest sin for me would be to do "more of the same" because the negative consequences would be too dreadful. No one says the worst-case-scenario HAS to happen, or even that it will happen. Could it happen? Sure. Could a more positive outcome happen too? I think that's more probable (after all, there's only 1 worst-case scenario and many other outcomes that aren't). All I know is that there isn't much room for growth in my current position, I'm not sure if I would even want it if it were there, and I might as well try toward something else, something that would be more satisfying that what I'm pursuing.

I've been to a career counselor and been seeing him occassionally for over a year. You have to look at what you enjoy doing & what you don't enjoy doing. I currently work in publishing and I enjoy this field because 1) I like books and 2) I really like nonfiction/history/current events books. I don't like the corporate mentality, yes it exists even in a leftist industry like book-publishing. I don't particularly see myself in sales, publicity, and especially not editorial. I would much rather be writing books than publishing and selling them. He thinks I'm on the right track & has been working as a career counselor for almost 20 years (he himself is making a career change--I'm not sure what that means, though :-) ).

I've been working at this for over a year. I've considered teaching high school social studies because I thought it to be more practical. I even enrolled in a post-bac teaching program to test the waters. When I observed classes, it became a rude awakening: high school is quite basic! I knew that from the beginning but didn't realize it until I saw it with my own eyes. I can't teach high school social studies because, although some classes might challenge me, a lot of it is glorified babysitting. I don't have the patience for that. Additionally, teachers seem to get quite bitter over the years.

I also enrolled in a noncredit course at NYU entitled "International Relations in the Post WWII Era." It was for those who were working toward the school's prof. certificate in IR. I wasn't, though; I enrolled to see how I would enjoy getting back to the classroom. I loved it. The final amounted to a term paper that was optional for those who weren't going for the cert. I wrote the paper anyway, and though it only had to be around 7 pages long, mine was around 20. My career counselor tells me this is a telling sign because who does the paper when they don't have to?

But I'm rambling--the reason why I peruse these boards is because I seek the advice of others who are going through similar situations. Am I nervous that I won't be able to find a tenure-track position? Of course! Should that stop me from trying? I don't think so. I know way too many people (including BOTH of my parents) who absolutely fear change. For example, my mother has been self-employed cleaning houses for over 20 years. She's too afraid to do something else because it's all she's known and she's too afraid to expand her business by hiring workers because she fears they will steal from her clients and she will lose business. My father is an operating engineer and has a well-paying job but dreads it and slugs out to work everyday because that's all he knows. He's well-skilled at what he does and could probably find work in a related field; however he's too close to retirement to change. Plus, he has a very "everything is out-of-his-control" mentality (there's a psychological term for it, but I can't remember it).

I don't plan on leaving my full-time job when I start, I plan on working while attending classes. I think it would be foolish to quit my job and live off of loans until I was done, especially for a PhD program. I would have had to do this if I attended American's MA program, which rough calculations would've put me around 80-90K in debt. I'm not willing to incur this amount of debt.

And lastly, the reason why I'm still at home is because I want my relationship with my gf to work. She is a high school teacher in Jersey and I live in Jersey but commute to NY. If I wasn't involved with her, I would sell my car and move to one of the 5 boroughs in NY. With a roommate, my costs would be the same as they are now. However, we're planning on finding an apartment together over the summer (during which I would have to get a ring on her finger because I am certain she is the one and moving together w/o at least an engagement would bother me). Do I loathe living at home? Yes, but mostly because of my ego. I feel like a big L-O-S-E-R living with my father, even though I'm self-sufficient except for that fact. Our schedules don't conflict so it usually works out that he's home while I'm not and I'm home when he's not. So it's like living alone. Sort of. But not really.

[leoncour]

A PhD in poly sci doesn't seem practical. I don't care about the doomsday scenario the other poster was talking about but from what I have read and heard from others is that anything related to the humanities and poli sci should be avoided. The reason being that humanities and poli sci PhD's come a dime a dozen, whice PhDs in the sciences and engineering are in demand. Also, academia will not be the same in the future as it is now. More classes will be taught online, rather than through the traditional antiquated lecture. Also professors in the humanities and social sciences will have more students, with teaching assistants to lead discussions and sections, and handle the correspondences. A teaching recruiter told me that I shouldn't be a social science high school teacher because they come a dime a dozen also and I would have an uphill battle to find a job. What else could you do with a PhD in poly sci outside of academia? Maybe work for the state department? Maybe a consultant?

[NewMrs.]

I don't think you're too old to be starting graduate school with plans to get your PhD.

My father-in-law served in the military and then went to college; however, he dropped out to get married as soon as my mother-in-law graduated with her BA. They had three kids together, then my father-in-law lost his job. He discovered that he couldn't find a job anywhere doing any of the things he actually had his employment experience in since he didn't have a college degree, so he went back to college. It was tough; he and his wife and their three kids moved in with her parents to cut down on their expenses. However, he completed his bacheloor's degree, and then his master's degree, and got hired to teach at the college where he went back to continue his education. He is now in his 50's and he's teaching college and still working to complete his PhD. He is All But Doctorate now; however, he may possibly have grandchildren around the same time that he actually becomes a PhD. It wasn't easy for my in-laws at times; however, their three kids all attended the college at which my father-in-law teaches for dramatically reduced tuition.

[lonestar]

I think that wordsmith, winneythepooh, and other regulars could tell you I have ping-ponged the gamut between pursuing passion vs. financial security. Financial security is definitely a consideration, but there is no accounting for passion. I recently conferred with some of my older and wiser friends (including starving artists!), who have encouraged me to follow passions and happiness will be the result. I have a 50 year old filmmaker friend who probably makes less than I do, but he loves what he does and would not consider doing anything else.

Forget about the gold, the silver, the worry of possible financial ruin - that can happen to anyone (not just people in academia). Some people gain and lose fortunes several times in the course of a lifespan. Also, keep in mind that if you qualify for a fellowship at least you won't incur the heavy debt associated with graduate education. Think of marriage - people get married (for the most part and discounting pre-nups) without too much consideration of possible marriage failure down the road. Obviously they make sure that the person is right, but nobody can predict that a marriage won't turn into a hulking loveless shell of a relationship after 20 years. On the other hand, it may be the best marriage in the world for over 50 years. Living life is in the trying...

I think the only question you have to ask yourself is: is Political Science right for me, and does earning a PhD get me to my goal? If so, go for it. If not, reevaluate.

[rootlessAlex]

Hi, from someone currently doing a PhD in poli sci! :)

First of all, don't worry about your age, I think it's fine. However, I think it's best to do it now, rather than hold off. My older sister started her PhD at an Ivy League at 27 -- she worked a while, waited to get into her dream program, telling herself, most people are in their early 30's.... then found out that, indeed (at highly academic, big-name universities at least), it's not true, they are actually in their early 20's.... Which isn't a problem at 27, but might be at 35, so if this is really your goal, go for it now...

I don't really know what TitanMatt is going on about, but I do know that with the future of the world and the country as uncertain as it is, it is probably more important than ever that people devote themselves to political science/international relations -- obviously our so-called leaders don't have a clue what they're doing or its possible implications, and the media is or chooses to be no wiser, so someone should be in a position to educate and inform others.... Just my 2 cents, I am tired of people's response to my field being "I don't like politicians" or "politics is irrelevant".... ;):

I can't comment on your financial situation or the possibility of getting a job while studying -- although in New York you should have more opportunities for the latter than elsewhere... But you say you want to be a professor or academic. Well, although of course it isn't a clear-cut given, (the way, say medicine, is) you have a very good chance of finding a position when you finish. As the daughter of an academic, while I can't claim it is the most glamorous or well-paying job, it certainly gives you a degree of security, and, best of all, freedom that the "business" world no longer offers. If you do choose to go the diplomatic route, especially the UN, the benefits are great and the security even greater.

However, for me personally, I have no desire to go into academia, and the PhD is basically killing time cause I couldn't find a real job with my MA... :sad:

[Sanman111]

Well as enlightening as that was, I'll give my opinions sans doomsday scenarios. As far as the money thing goes, I would say that you should go for the CUNY degree. Assuming doomsday happens, yuo can always leave with a masters and less debt than AU. MY suggestion is to look at job markets and not just listen to you department. Poli Sci isn't the most marketable PhD, but their are niche topics that will allow you to pursue an academic career because they are hot right now. If those niches don't interest you, I would look into gettting some business/consulting experience under your belt while in grad school, since this will give you a leg up on non-academic work. I wouldn't suggest broadcasting these intentions to supervisors as it is not ususally embraced. If anything, refer to it as a back up. Whatever you do, but I'd rather be the exception that planned not to be than vice versa. If you plan well, a PhD can be worth it; if you don't, you could be destitute or worse off than you were prior. Go for it, just be careful.

[bmy78]

rootlessAlex, Sanman111:

Thanks for your comments. I understand that poli sci isn't the most marketable PhD (not like the hard sciences or some of the other social sciences like psychology), hence my worry. There are some hot niche subfields in international relations (namely terrorism) which is my main point of interest. Hopefully I'll be able to pull this off.

I guess what I'm most anxious about is my financial situation--I feel like I can't get anywhere at the moment and the prices of housing, costs of living keep me awake at night. I went to see a career coach a year and a half ago and he helped me discover that my life's passion involves being in an environment where I'm constantly learning. I loved learning about poli sci when I was an undergrad and so here I am. I first thought I could take a shortcut by going into teaching history/poli sci at the secondary school level but there I learned I really don't like teenagers and you don't delve enough into any of the topics to satisfy my learning. So after 2 semesters of education courses and observing high school classes I've decided not to pursue the shortcut option and go for the higher degree.

I just hope I'm doing the right decision because this will probably take 6 or more years to finish.

[kdhmps]

I am 25 years old. I majored in Political Science and Pre-Law in college. I also hold a Master of Science in Public Services Mgt and Public Policy, which I received a couple of years ago. If I ever pay back these darn student loans, maybe I will move on to a doctorate program or law school. But at this point, I look forward to utilizing my education. But that's me.

27 is not too old for you to begin a doctorate program. In fact, do it now while you are still young since you appear to have the strong desire for it. If you don't and this is your dream, you will not be content until you pursue it. You will have many opportunities in government & nonprofit. Political Science people are "uniquely intelligent" and you will certainly find your niche when it is all said and done. Everything will fall into place--just make sure you enjoy living in or near a large city where the job opportunities are for people like us.

And the money... it will only come if you are doing something you love... and if this is a step toward that, go for it!