2008 Democratic Straw Poll

[PenforPrez]

It is today only 862 days until the 2008 U.S. Presidential election. More correctly 862 days and 10 hours until the final polls will close in Hawaii on election night.

So I began to wonder who everybody thought the '08 Democratic nominee should be. Right now is a good time to ask, really. They're talking about EVERYBODY for President right now!

Just thought I'd set up a little poll and see what everybody thinks. PLEASE NOTE: I am not asking who you THINK the Dem. nominee will be. Most people will say Hillary to that, thus defeating the purpose of the exercise. I want to know who you WANT the nominee to be; who you like, who you'd support.

Throw in a comment about who you like and why. Also, who would you want to see for VP?

This is an open primary; everybody gets to vote. It seemed the only fair way to organize the poll was to do it alphabetically. I threw in the names I have heard seriously discussed; Russ Feingold and Barack Obama (two obvious examples) are not seriously being discussed right now.

I don't want you Republicans to feel left out, I'll do a Republican poll a little later. :) The Republican race is equally interesting to me.

No hanging chads will be counted! :huge:

Paul

[cheshrcarol]

Although I haven't really decided, I voted for John Edwards. He's young, personable and middle of the road (as far as I know). I don't think Hilary's going to cut it in an election if she makes it through the primaries. And I don't think anyone like Gore, Dean, Clark or Kerry, who have already tried and failed will have enough of a following to win the race. Now is the time for democrats to come together as a party and take advantage of the country's dissatisfaction with Republicans and be SMART about choosing a candidate.

[PenforPrez]

I don't think Hilary's going to cut it in an election if she makes it through the primaries. And I don't think anyone like Gore, Dean, Clark or Kerry, who have already tried and failed will have enough of a following to win the race.

I agree with this totally. Hillary is a 48-state loser, I've said that for a long time. The problem is, the polling right now centers around the bigger names: Hillary, Edwards and Kerry. They're not really covering the lesser-knowns, Bayh, Biden and Warner especially.

Now is the time for democrats to come together as a party and take advantage of the country's dissatisfaction with Republicans and be SMART about choosing a candidate.

Amen! I'm sick of this push for ideological purity in the party right now. Lets get our people elected, then worry about ideology.

Paul

[yankeeyosh]

I like Obama...yeah, he's green, but he's a fresh new face, and should do well with the Gen 'X'/'Y' vote (although based on election trends, that unfortunately doesn't mean much...).

[wordsmith]

Sorry, Paul, Obama is my my man...whether he's being seriously discussed or not (and despite the fact that when I heard him speak at the 2005 Illinois Press Association Editorial Awards & Conference, he politely and respectfully disavowed any notion of running at that time, saying he needed to concentrate on being a Senator), he's who I like and who I'd support.

[PenforPrez]

Sorry, Paul, Obama is my my man...whether he's being seriously discussed or not (and despite the fact that when I heard him speak at the 2005 Illinois Press Association Editorial Awards & Conference, he politely and respectfully disavowed any notion of running at that time, saying he needed to concentrate on being a Senator), he's who I like and who I'd support.

Obama won't run this time. I love Obama myself; I hope he does run and relatively soon. It's just not his time, and he knows it. I could see an outside chance of Obama being nominated for VP in '08 (especially if a moderate wins the nomination), but the political wind is blowing in such a way that I sense there will be a woman on the Dem. ticket.

2012, though, I think we will see Obama on the ticket somewhere. :)

Paul

[wordsmith]

I don't think he'll run, either (although the Chicago Trib had a huge and masterfully done page one shot a few weeks ago of him speaking at an event immediately following the president, where he spoke at the same podium, and it played up his face hovering above the presidential seal on the podium). But if he did, he'd unequivocally get my vote. That not being probable, I'll have to do homework to figure out who I like most comparably.

[EmberMae]

Obama is the only current politician I actually like right now. He actually seems genuine to me. I don't know what the push for Hillary is about. Too many people hate her. Also, she still has the reputation of being far left, even though in recent years her votes have been quite moderate, which on the other hand makes her look like she doesn't stick to principles. I used to like Hillary but some of her recent comments/behavior have put a bad taste in my mouth. I think there is a sizeable group of people who won't vote for a female president simply because she is female. With so many close elections recently, I'm not sure the democrats will take the risk.

[PenforPrez]

I voted for Mark Warner; the fact I promote him next to my username is no coincidence. The thing I like about Warner is: He's all the positives of Bill Clinton without all the bullshit. I have never liked Bill Clinton BECAUSE HE IS SO FULL OF SHIT! :frustrate

Warner had a powerful success record as governor of Virginia, and previously as the founder of Nextel. He had a 75% approval rating in a socially conservative state; for a Democrat, that's miraculous. He's good-looking; a lot of women will like him and think he's cute. And he's so moderate on guns that the NRA stayed out of his governors race in 2001. I'm for gun rights, but I'm sick of seeing the NRA stealing razor-thin elections from the Democrats when it is totally unneccessary.

Another thing to me is, I'm sick of seeing the Democrats nominating Northern liberals and getting slaughtered. George McGovern (populist liberal from South Dakota) lost in a landslide in '72. Walter Mondale (populist liberal from Minnesota) lost in a landslide in '84. Michael Dukakis, liberal governor of Massachusetts, lost in '88. Then Kerry two years ago.

Now look at the Southerners we've had success with. LBJ, Carter, Clinton, and Gore. (Gore won. Don't argue that point with me!)

We desperately need another Southern moderate, and Mark Warner is the only one right now. (John Edwards is more of a populist liberal, and I'm not fond of him.) We cannot win with a Northeastern liberal, we need to quit trying.

As far as VP, the perfect Dem. VP candidate is staring us right in the face if we'll grab it: Governor Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas. She's a moderate woman, from the second most Republican state. (She won't win KS, but it'll piss the Republicans off, which I'm counting on!) She's very likeable, she's pro-choice, and her father was governor of Ohio (John Gilligan, '71-'75), which would be an enormous boost. Nobody could be better. :huge:

Paul

[Krishna]

No hanging chads will be counted! :huge:


But...but....hanging chads provided me with years of entertainment!

None of the individuals on the list right now particularly grab me, if Feingold or Obama ran, I would be hard-pressed not to support them at this point.

So far, I can scratch Clinton, Kerry, and Dean off the list without batting an eye. Feminism be damned, I wont vote for Hillary.

Basically, I guess that leaves me with Edwards, though I doubt he'd get the nod.

[lonestar]

I hope, at least for entertainment factor they go with Dean...I wanna see another scream! YAHHH!

[PenforPrez]

None of the individuals on the list right now particularly grab me, if Feingold or Obama ran, I would be hard-pressed not to support them at this point.

So far, I can scratch Clinton, Kerry, and Dean off the list without batting an eye. Feminism be damned, I wont vote for Hillary.

Feingold has been in some generic Democratic polls, but he never polls more than 1%, and I don't see him as a potentially serious contender either. The Republicans would have a field day with Feingold and some of the votes he's made. He did what was right, though. God bless him. :)

I totally agree about those three. They CAN'T win. The problem is the rank-and-file. Hillary is bandied about so much because the blue-collar Democratic rank-and-file would vote for her in the blink of an eye if she ran. But blue-collar Democrats (think Jeff Foxworthy if he was a Democrat) do not win elections sadly; suburban soccer moms do.

The thing about Dean is the Deanics are still in denial; they still see him as Lord and savior. I was a proud Deaniac, and still am. I would love to see Dean run again because he would force a serious issues debate. But I know full well Dean couldn't win, so I'm supporting somebody else. That's only sensible.

Paul

[pisces2473]

Yeah, why no Obama??? And why did you put Chris Dodd in that poll???? He's so quiet...he's not a big mover and shaker. Did you put the wrong senator from Connecticut in that poll?

[PenforPrez]

Yeah, why no Obama???

Because Obama won't run in '08. I meant to say: "Who would you want among the serious contenders?"

And why did you put Chris Dodd in that poll???? He's so quiet...he's not a big mover and shaker. Did you put the wrong senator from Connecticut in that poll?

Because there seriously is talk of Chris Dodd running. More serious than Russ Feingold or Bill Richardson or Tom Vilsack. In retrospect, I could have replaced Dodd with somebody more breathing. What the hell has Chris Dodd accomplished in the last 10 years? But it sounds likely and they're polling him too right now.

As far as Lieberman, he's going to be lucky to win the Democratic primary in CT this year. Ned Lamont, as of the last poll, is within 6 points of Lieberman. DFA endorsed Lamont, so has NOW (they've never liked Lieberman anyway) and MoveOn.org.

Paul

[wordsmith]

I totally agree about those three. They CAN'T win. The problem is the rank-and-file. Hillary is bandied about so much because the blue-collar Democratic rank-and-file would vote for her in the blink of an eye if she ran. But blue-collar Democrats (think Jeff Foxworthy if he was a Democrat) do not win elections sadly; suburban soccer moms do.


I'm not so sure...of the democrats where I am, they're decidedly blue-collar, and would no sooner vote for Hillary Clinton than they would Satan.

[PenforPrez]

I'm not so sure...of the democrats where I am, they're decidedly blue-collar, and would no sooner vote for Hillary Clinton than they would Satan.

The same is true here. But I don't know of one single middle-class Democrat who supports Hillary. She's got to be getting support from somewhere. I suspect it's a lot of old Bill supporters, and he won a LOT of blue-collar Reagan Democrats. But at the same time, the Reagan Dems are not exactly lining up that quick.

My mother was a diehard Bill fan, and she thinks Hillary is nothing short of God. She's one of the people I described who'd vote for Hillary PDQ. But I know a lot of people like that.

[SunDevil]

I'm not sure if Dean would run for Pres again, but VP might be an option.

If the Dems lose this election, it will be Obama in 2012, and it won't be very close. Maybe enough people would write-in his name, that would be a first.

Hillary would be my second choice, just because I want to see what the Middle East does when dealing with a powerful woman (at least has more power than the rulers in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt,... I don't get why people hate her.

And Bill Clinton would run a seperate campaign for Hillary, so they could be in two places at the same time.

I don't see Kerry running again, or at last getting the nomination.

Gore would be great on domestic issues, but I'm not sure what he would do on terrorism/national defense/war issues.

[lonestar]

Is John Kerry seriously a contender again? I thought the Dems made a mistake in 2004 by picking a guy who was very polarizing to middle America (ie. There is no way a Mass liberal Democrat is going to do well in any red state, whereas an Arkansas moderate Democrat with some charisma won states like Tennessee, Louisiana, Missouri, Kentucky, and all of the swing states).

I think Warner is the best practical shot for the Democrats. Dean cannot win, and Hillary Clinton could have a chance of possibly losing blue collar blue states like IL, NJ, MI, PA...and you can forget about OH. The Democrats MUST not run to the left on this one, and have to select someone to appreal to moderates from both parties. It would be the best thing right now to capitalize on the growing number or moderate Republicans disenfranchised with their party...if you select someone who can at least see some of the values of fiscal conservativism while at the same time being hands off on social issues (something that my party seems unable to do...damn religious right), you get my vote.

[pisces2473]

Because Obama won't run in '08. I meant to say: "Who would you want among the serious contenders?"

Because there seriously is talk of Chris Dodd running. More serious than Russ Feingold or Bill Richardson or Tom Vilsack. In retrospect, I could have replaced Dodd with somebody more breathing. What the hell has Chris Dodd accomplished in the last 10 years? But it sounds likely and they're polling him too right now.

As far as Lieberman, he's going to be lucky to win the Democratic primary in CT this year. Ned Lamont, as of the last poll, is within 6 points of Lieberman. DFA endorsed Lamont, so has NOW (they've never liked Lieberman anyway) and MoveOn.org.

Paul
I don't really see Dodd as a "serious contender" though... You know, Dodd wouldn't take the senate majority seat, why would he run for President?? I really think he likes the behind the scenes stuff. He's never been "out there" and I don't think he would want to be. He's got a young family.

Uhhh yeah I live in CT, I love the ads about Joe vs. Ned. It's gonna be a bumpy ride to November 'round here.

[cheshrcarol]

Hilary is fairly popular as a senator here in NY. If I remember right, she has crushed her Republican competition. And NY is less Democrat than most people think, we go blue on Presidential elections but we have a Republican governor and lots of Republican local politicians.

Anyway, I don't think Hilary will be a smart choice at all, and I don't think she'll make it through the Iowa Caucus. She is fairly moderate (and voted for the Iraq war) but as someone else mentioned she's viewed as being extremely left. We need someone who won't divide the party AND can pick up moderate Republican votes. If it takes a southern democrat, that's fine with me.

[PenforPrez]

Is John Kerry seriously a contender again? I thought the Dems made a mistake in 2004 by picking a guy who was very polarizing to middle America (ie. There is no way a Mass liberal Democrat is going to do well in any red state, whereas an Arkansas moderate Democrat with some charisma won states like Tennessee, Louisiana, Missouri, Kentucky, and all of the swing states).

I think Warner is the best practical shot for the Democrats. Dean cannot win, and Hillary Clinton could have a chance of possibly losing blue collar blue states like IL, NJ, MI, PA...and you can forget about OH. The Democrats MUST not run to the left on this one, and have to select someone to appreal to moderates from both parties. It would be the best thing right now to capitalize on the growing number or moderate Republicans disenfranchised with their party...if you select someone who can at least see some of the values of fiscal conservativism while at the same time being hands off on social issues (something that my party seems unable to do...damn religious right), you get my vote.

I have said all that repeatedly for years now. I like to use my home of Missouri as a measuring point. Missouri is still the political microcosm of the nation, unfortunately. That's what I'm looking at in candidates: who could win Missouri?

Anybody who could win Missouri could win Ohio and Nevada, and maybe Tennessee and Florida. Hillary could not win Missouri. Gore can't win Missouri now; he very nearly did in 2000. Barack Obama would not win Missouri right now, maybe a few years from now, he could.

A moderate Democrat would win Missouri; a liberal will not. Warner would win large numbers of moderate Republican votes, and we desperately need that.

Paul

[and1grad]

I've never heard of this Warner guy so I dont have any opinion on him. People wont vote for Hillary for pres and not only is Obama WAY too green to even CONSIDER running but he's black. Sorry. America isnt THAT progressive. Get real. :googly: Even tho he wont run, I like Gore. I like what he stands for and I feel like he's been humbled by his experience. I think he'd make a fantastic president. Oh well.

[lonestar]

Warner was the founder and CEO of Nextel before becoming in the first Democratic Virginia Gov last time around (VA has a one-term limit governorship). He is has a business background, which I think is a good thing. From all accounts he is a moderate dem.

Mark Warner info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Warner)

[labrat2111]

Warner was the founder and CEO of Nextel before becoming in the first Democratic Virginia Gov last time around (VA has a one-term limit governorship). He is has a business background, which I think is a good thing. From all accounts he is a moderate dem.

Mark Warner info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Warner)

I think Warner would be a very good choice overall even if most people don't know much about him now. After all who knew much of anything about Bill Clinton before 1992?

[HereComes30]

Yes Kerry is likely to run again and get clobbered. Supposedly he is the most disliked senator among his peers and has been told several times to keep his mouth shut.

I voted for Hilary because I would love to see all the campaign commercials with her saying the complete opposite on every issue depending on the audience she was speaking to at the time. I also think it would be the biggest landslide defeat in history and it would be entertaining to watch her get all pissed off and start bitch slapping and kicking people and just flat out going off the deep end.

[PenforPrez]

Warner was the founder and CEO of Nextel before becoming in the first Democratic Virginia Gov last time around (VA has a one-term limit governorship).

Hasn't been very long since VA had a Democratic governor. L. Douglas Wilder was governor from 1990 to 1994; first black governor of any state. There was some talk of him running on the '92 ticket.

He is has a business background, which I think is a good thing. From all accounts he is a moderate dem.

The NRA refused to make an endorsement in Warner's 2001 race, and the NRA has been officially at war with the Democrats for some years. That really attracted my attention.

[PenforPrez]

I don't really see Dodd as a "serious contender" though... You know, Dodd wouldn't take the senate majority seat, why would he run for President?? I really think he likes the behind the scenes stuff. He's never been "out there" and I don't think he would want to be. He's got a young family.

Uhhh yeah I live in CT, I love the ads about Joe vs. Ned. It's gonna be a bumpy ride to November 'round here.

I went by the most recent generic Democratic polls done in picking Dodd; he was in one poll they did the first of this month. He seemed to have more traction than Tom Vilsack, whom I probably would have picked otherwise. Vilsack wants to run, but he's not going to be able to garner serious support.

I looked through some of the older '08 polls, just out of curiosity. There was polling of Barack Obama in some of the '08 polls from last year, and the highest he polled was 7%. And there were some silly names in the pot then: Harold Ford, Tim Kaine (before he was inaugurated as Virginia governor!), Bill Richardson. I was waiting to see polling on Rod Blagojevich or Eliot Spitzer or Ed Rendell. That would be even more ridiculous.

But that causes me problems in figuring the lineup for the Republican straw poll. I was making a list out yesterday, and I already question it. The question to me is: Should I include Condy Rice and/or Jeb Bush? Lot of people want them to run, but I don't think Condy wants it and Jeb doesn't want to run right now.

Again, the serious contender question. There's a lot of smaller names wanting to run on the R side too: Sam Brownback, Tom Tancredo, Chuck Hagel, Mike Huckabee. So do I add Rice and Bush or leave in Hagel and Huckabee? (Tancredo is starting to pick up support, which frightens me. :()

Paul

[cheshrcarol]

it would be entertaining to watch her get all pissed off and start bitch slapping and kicking people and just flat out going off the deep end.Ok, I have already said I'm not a huge Hilary fan, but that is the craziest, most baseless thing I've ever heard. That woman has kept her cool in every situation, including her husband getting a "lewinsky".

[wordsmith]

And there were some silly names in the pot then: Harold Ford, Tim Kaine (before he was inaugurated as Virginia governor!), Bill Richardson. I was waiting to see polling on Rod Blagojevich or Eliot Spitzer or Ed Rendell. That would be even more ridiculous.



Snort, Blagojevich? I'm thinking that that guy with the plaid shirt from Home Improvement might be able to drum up more support at this point, hypothetically, than my Guv'nah. :rolleyes:

[lonestar]

I don't know...something about the sound of "President Huckabee" makes America sound so Mayberry. :surprised

[PenforPrez]

I don't know...something about the sound of "President Huckabee" makes America sound so Mayberry. :surprised

Governor Huckabee is from Arkansas. Why does that not surprise me at all? :huge:

[HereComes30]

Ok, I have already said I'm not a huge Hilary fan, but that is the craziest, most baseless thing I've ever heard. That woman has kept her cool in every situation, including her husband getting a "lewinsky".

Apparently you have never read the insider reports from those that worked in the White House while she was there...the accounts of her dropping the f-bomb constantly...yelling at Bill...yelling at the secret service... forcing the secret service to wear suits instead of their military uniforms (never been done in the history of their duty) because she didn't like the look of them around the white house.... and you have never heard her howard dean impersonations when she spoke in front of a far left group? She puts on a good show, but you rarely see the real hilary. Plus I was just saying what I would like to see happen and could foresee happening. Look at Kerry, Dean, Gore, etc...all ran for president, lost and went off the deep end.

[and1grad]

Look at Kerry, Dean, Gore, etc...all ran for president, lost and went off the deep end.
I'd love to hear your explanation of how Kerry & Gore are "off the deep end," especially Gore.

[labrat2111]

I'd love to hear your explanation of how Kerry & Gore are "off the deep end," especially Gore.

I'd agree there. I saw him on Larry King last week I think talking about his movie on global warming and other things. He seems very together and refused to say much about his 2000 election loss or his possibility of running in 2008.

[and1grad]

I'd agree there. I saw him on Larry King last week I think talking about his movie on global warming and other things. He seems very together and refused to say much about his 2000 election loss or his possibility of running in 2008.
I saw that too and honestly I cant remember the time I DIDNT think the guy was at least level headed. Sidenote, he'll be on the Daily Show tonight.

[wordsmith]

Going off the deep end seems as if it would require a dynamic personality, something that Gore isn't really known for. The man isn't dramatic enough to go off the deep end.

[pisces2473]

Apparently you have never read the insider reports from those that worked in the White House while she was there...the accounts of her dropping the f-bomb constantly...yelling at Bill...yelling at the secret service... forcing the secret service to wear suits instead of their military uniforms (never been done in the history of their duty) because she didn't like the look of them around the white house.... and you have never heard her howard dean impersonations when she spoke in front of a far left group? She puts on a good show, but you rarely see the real hilary. Plus I was just saying what I would like to see happen and could foresee happening. Look at Kerry, Dean, Gore, etc...all ran for president, lost and went off the deep end.
Dude, Dick Cheney dropped the f-bomb on the SENATE FLOOR. Who cares if HiLLary swore in her "own" house???

And furthermore, you rarely see ANY real side of a politician.

[pisces2473]

I'd love to hear your explanation of how Kerry & Gore are "off the deep end," especially Gore.
Well, And1, maybe saving the environment is "going off the deep end" to conservatives. :googly: :razz:

[lonestar]

I really don't know about Kerry, but here's how some of them went of the deep end:

Dean with the scream (technically, though he went off the deep end while on the campaign trail...what a maniac). Now he just is angry all the time.

Gore couldn't let it go and after conceding in December grew a beard and became a woodsman. Now he's making "crazy" movies...

[PenforPrez]

Dean with the scream (technically, though he went off the deep end while on the campaign trail...what a maniac). Now he just is angry all the time.

Dean's always been angry; that was his appeal to pissed off Democrats like myself. ;)

[and1grad]

Well, And1, maybe saving the environment is "going off the deep end" to conservatives. :googly: :razz:
I'm startin to think you're right. :frustrate

[PenforPrez]

Well, And1, maybe saving the environment is "going off the deep end" to conservatives. :googly: :razz:

Ann Coulter was the one who said we ought to strip mine and deforest the entire world, and if it kills us all, so be it. Of course, God pity the fool who takes her seriously! ;)

[wordsmith]

When the environment is destroyed, mammoth praying mantises (mantii?) like her will be the first to go.

[lonestar]

Actually, insects will inherit the earth....they are better designed for survival thant we are...they survive by sheer reproduction numbers. The environmental issues don't bother me so much...the earth someday will find a way to cleanse itself of this pesty human race :huge:

[PenforPrez]

Actually, insects will inherit the earth....they are better designed for survival thant we are...they survive by sheer reproduction numbers. The environmental issues don't bother me so much...the earth someday will find a way to cleanse itself of this pesty human race :huge:

We're doing a pretty good job of that right now. *ahem* :)

[lonestar]

Hooray for extinction! I am a big fan of entropy.

[pisces2473]

Actually, insects will inherit the earth....they are better designed for survival thant we are...they survive by sheer reproduction numbers. The environmental issues don't bother me so much...the earth someday will find a way to cleanse itself of this pesty human race :huge:
Don't forget, Cher will be there too. And she'll be the leader of the insects.

[Deemies]

I like John Edwards and his youth, energy, and charisma. However I wouldn't rule out Barack Obama -Senator Illinois. He seems to be a future star and potential candidate among the Democrats. He also seems to be a down-to-earth guy as well.

[Trillian42]

I think there is a sizeable group of people who won't vote for a female president simply because she is female. With so many close elections recently, I'm not sure the democrats will take the risk.

Unfortunately my fear is that there are people who WILL vote for a female president simply because she is a female, instead of paying attention to the issues she stands for. That's no way to pick a president!