Do we tend to become Pro Life as we get Older?

[dakotagopher]

Here is a question: most of the girls I knew in college who were virolently pro Choice have flip flopped in their late 20's, to where now they are pro Life, in some cases militantly pro-Life (like walking with signs outside abortion clinics). I can seriously think of at least a dozen such women that I knew/know well (not exaggerating) that made this transformation on this issue.

I don't get this massive viewpoint chance in the space of less than 5 years.......anybody have input on why??????? When I ask my friends why the shift in opinion, they just smile, shrug, get a sad look on their face, and mumble something about getting older??

Not all of them have had kids either. For a while I was thinking having a baby might shift your viewpoint on this issue.

Any input?

[jku]

I don't think anyone REALLY supports abortion - I mean, the procedure itself. It's ghastly, scarring, and traumatic. In a perfect world, where everyone used birth control, there weren't such things as drunken one night stands, and everyone only had babies with the intention of raising them in a high-income, loving, two parent household - abortion wouldn't even be a concept.

But until we get to the promise land, these anti-abortionists should just leave this highly personal decision to the individual - NOT the state. And if you're an anti-abortionist, then you should also be willing to adopt any and all children placed in foster care in lieu of being aborted.

One final note, I'm boggled by how "pro-lifers" can be against abortion, AND against the distribution of condoms?

Bueller? Bueller?
Anyone have an answer to that?

[meatwad]

I guess the reason I'm pro-life is because I can never see a reason why killing a baby is necessary.

[paperjam1015]

And if you're an anti-abortionist, then you should also be willing to adopt any and all children placed in foster care in lieu of being aborted.

AMEN!! I get so irritated with people who demonstrate and preach at everyone as they sit their with their kids who look like little replicas of themselves. Yes I think everyone has a right to have their own biological children, but put your beliefs into action. Support adoption! There are so many kids in need of good homes and not enough good homes to go around. I used to be strictly pro-life, but then I think about the life an unwanted child (or a child whose parents don't have the skills they need) has...

As far as my bottom line belief...I have to just say I don't have all the answers...

[tipsy88]

when it endangers the life of the mother, that would be a necessary action, wouldn't it? Of course that's probably not what you were looking for

[meatwad]

Originally posted by tipsy88
when it endangers the life of the mother, that would be a necessary action, wouldn't it? Of course that's probably not what you were looking for

Every mother I know would put their child's life before their own. I would give my life if it meant my child would live.

[paperjam1015]

There are some situations where the child has a slight or now chance of making it and the mother's life is in danger....and she possibly has other children.

Do you take that chance? Do you deny the other childnre a mother? It's a tough decision I hope I never have to make.

I think it's really hard to say what's right if we have never been in that situation.

[meatwad]

So instead of both having a chance to live, you kill the child so the mother has a better chance to live.

[pisces2473]

I'm also against over-population. WHY on earth do people think it's necessary to have like 6 or 7 kids? If you have a farm, that's one thing. But if you live in suburbia, that's quite another thing. I think people should really think about these things. 2 or 3 kids is enough.

[tipsy88]

Every mother I know would put their child's life before their own. I would give my life if it meant my child would live.

So instead of both having a chance to live, you kill the child so the mother has a better chance to live.

and what about the father's opinion? how would a father feel about that? would it comfort him knowing that losing his wife meant survival of his child?

would a husband want to take that chance of possibly saving his child at the risk of losing both?

[meatwad]

I've never been a father, but I am a man. I hope I would never have to be put in that situation. I don't think it's fair, but neither is life. I would like to think that the woman that I loved enough to have a baby with and I would both be strong enough to take whatever risk, no matter how great, that would be necessary to give both a chance at life.

[tipsy88]

would the strength of your love be enough to carry your life forward had you taken that risk and loss both? Perhaps that is your cup of tea, but for others they would rather not drink from that cup. those other people, would you consider them to be wrong?

perhaps the risk of losing both, and moving forward without their wife would be not great of a loss to bear at the satisfaction of knowing all was done to have saved both.

perhaps other people place a greater value on the life they would of shared with their spouse greater over the satisfaction of risking all to have given a chance for both.

I believe its a personal decision that cannot be judged by others. thus accordingly abortions so should be subject by the same context.

so in summary personally for you, you may not view them as necessity in your case, but like i said in other post other view it differently, and for them it would be. are you any more right or wrong than they are?

[meatwad]

But that's the thing. I would value them equally. I would be just as crushed if one died as the other. So now how do you choose? I could lose one, both or neither. Why wouldn't we want the option where I might get both?

And considering the millions of abortions each year, how many are done because the mother's life is at risk?

That's why I don't like the death penalty. It's like saying, "You're not allowed to kill...except."

[rolo99]

Staunch pro-choicer here....since college and for the 12 years since college.

Another beef....people who have kids when they are 40 or darn near. Give it up....your time is up. You should have had 'em when you were 30. Having kids at 40 or beyond (naturally or otherwise) is just a selfish way to try to perpetuate one's youth. How selfish is it to have a kid when they'll most likely be having to take care of your ass by the time they graduate high school. :mad:

Also a beef....men who are pro-life. Easy for you to say when you don't have to go through pregnancy, birth, and can "walk away" when the going gets tough.

[meatwad]

Originally posted by rolo99
Staunch pro-lifer here....since college and for the 12 years since college.

Another beef....people who have kids when they are 40 or darn near. Give it up....your time is up. You should have had 'em when you were 30. Having kids at 40 or beyond (naturally or otherwise) is just a selfish way to try to perpetuate one's youth. How selfish is it to have a kid when they'll most likely be having to take care of your ass by the time they graduate high school. :mad:

Also a beef....men who are pro-life. Easy for you to say when you don't have to go through pregnancy, birth, and can "walk away" when the going gets tough.

Was with you there until you made the tiny mistake there at the end. Walk away? Those aren't men, they're @$$holes. There's a difference. And don't I have any say in whether or not the mother of my child wants to kill said child?

[rolo99]

Your choice is when you decide whether or not to put a condom on. After that it's no longer your choice.

[klo1335]

This is going to sound horrible but...

If men could have babies...abortion would have always been legal. A man has never has to decide between a career and a family. A man can't get raped and pregnant by their attacker and have to deal with the fact that they are pregnant by them. Imagine being a 13-year old girl who is raped by her father and ends up pregnant.

Now, don't everyone yell and tear me apart because I know that I am generalizing and this isn't the case with all men.

Bringing another thought to the conversation. What does everyone think of abstinence (sp?) only education? I read a study in college that said in schools where this is taught, the pregnancy rates are higher then when a school teaches about birth control and sex.

Opinions?

[meatwad]

Originally posted by rolo99
Your choice is when you decide whether or not to put a condom on. After that it's no longer your choice.

That's just cold.

[tipsy88]

But that's the thing. I would value them equally. I would be just as crushed if one died as the other. So now how do you choose? I could lose one, both or neither. Why wouldn't we want the option where I might get both?

Because of the risk at losing your wife. While you may value both of equal value, you can't assume all men do.




Katie brings up a good point, if the logistics dictated men to have baby and holding all other things constant , i think the laws would have been much different.

[klo1335]

Thanks :)

[Rainster]

I saw a quote somewhere that said, "If men could get pregnant, abortion would be legal, ethical, and federally funded."

Can't remember where I saw it, though.

[pisces2473]

Originally posted by meatwad


That's just cold.

That's the way it is.

I agree with you Katie :)

And Rainster, I saw that quote on a bumper sticker, LOL.

[klo1335]

Its true. Look at Viagra. I love how they try to explain its medical uses. PLEASE. Men just can't get it up and need to have sex. AND INSURANCE COMPANIES COVER IT!! Yet, these companies won't cover the birth control pill unless it is needed medically!!! Oh...don't even get me started!!!!!!!

[pisces2473]

KATIE!!!!!! You are my twin sister separated at birth!!!!!

I know, that pisses me off soooo much!!!!! Even WHEN the pill is needed for medical reasons, some insurance companies STILL won't pay for it!!!!!!!! What is the logic in that??????

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[klo1335]

Its difficult for us to say abortion should be illegal. What happens if a single mother of 4 children gets raped? She is already working 3 jobs to support her family. Or a 14-year old girl who lives in poverty? What is going to become of her life? She will probably never be above the poverty line. If she is lucky her family will help her out.

We can't judge what another person's situation is like. The majority of us live in comfotable homes and all we have to complain and whine about is how "we can't meet friends" and "why are we still virgins." Well how about the people who don't have enough money to eat or put clothing on their children. You can't have these wide spead laws (i.e. making abortion illegal) because you will never ever know the extent of another's person's situation. We don't have the right to make those kind of judgements. One person might think life starts at conception and another might not agree. But that is our decision to make not someone elses.

[Rainster]

Originally posted by klo1335
Its true. Look at Viagra. I love how they try to explain its medical uses. PLEASE. Men just can't get it up and need to have sex. AND INSURANCE COMPANIES COVER IT!! Yet, these companies won't cover the birth control pill unless it is needed medically!!! Oh...don't even get me started!!!!!!!

Ditto, klo!

[meatwad]

You're both obviously very passionate about this. That's great. But you still haven't proven to me how killing a baby (which is what I believe abortion is) is OK.

As horrible and offensive as this is probably going to sound to you, you're telling me that she should be allowed to kill the child because she doesn't want it and it would make her life harder and inconvienient.

And for just about all the same reasons you have for being pissed at the drug companies, I'm sick of being looked at as some 'sperm donor' that makes his deposit and then should just sit down and keep my mouth shut.

[pisces2473]

I'm not going to try to prove/disprove anything to you. Are you looking to have your beliefs changed? It doesn't sound like you are. So I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you of something you don't believe in. Like I said before, everyone has their own views on this issue, so I think it's best to just agree to disagree.

Meatwad, have you been in that position before? Where a woman had an abortion and you didn't have a say? You just sound like you have a connection to this scenario.

[klo1335]

I think you are entitled to your opinion and I think its great that you want to have a say in the life of a child. If you think that life begins at conception then thats what you think. I however, don't think that life begins at conception and we could debate for hours and hours each showing a bunch of different studies trying to prove who is correct. However, what you think might not be what other people might think. The women I work with are on welfare and get pregnant by men who want nothing to do with them or the kids. They struggle to provide for themselves and their kids. And the men who get these women pregnant think that they don't need to have any involvment in these children's lives and are just sperm donors. And I am sure me saying this isn't going to change your opinion and what you say isn't going to change mine. I just think that your view is some-what close minded to the different demographics of people in this country and an assumption is being made that all people are in the same situation and they are not. Please don't take offense to this because I mean none :)

[Rainster]

Originally posted by meatwad
which is what I believe

That's the key right there, dude. I don't believe what you do. We'll never convince each other. If you don't want your potential children aborted, discuss the issue with your partner beforehand.

[pisces2473]

Good job, Rainster.

Meatwad, how many times will you have to see this? You're not going to convince us and vice versa. Stop already. There's no winner here.

[coll214]

Just want to add my 2 cents; in total agreement klo, rainster, and pisces w/ your statements. No one will ever change another's mind on this topic. Not to mention that if you outlaw abortion, they will still always be going on in back alleys and other seedy places....just as they were before it became legal.

And so true about the viagra being covered in insurance when birth control for medical reasons isn't! Kinda pisses one off doesn't it?

[meatwad]

All right. I'm tired. I will agree to disagree in this conversation. Truce :)

[klo1335]

:) ok sounds good to me...truce

[jku]

Speaking as a male, with the preface that I find abortion horrible, if faced with the choice of having to go through it with my partner would try to avoid it all costs.

But I think men should leave this issue alone. Its clearly a choice, and squarely a decision to be made principally by the pregnant woman.

The points made by the women that if men could get pregnant, the issue would be totally different, are incredibly true. I believe that if men could pregnant, and had the same sex drive, abortions would be looked upon as like getting a haircut.
And the choice to get pregnant would be like growing out hair. Men would justify the "killing of babies" by saying that "we kill innocent animals for our pleasure, so what's the difference."

Just as I wouldn't want someone to tell me what to do with my life, I feel we should do the same for women facing this awful decision. Instead of fighting abortion, how about promoting birth control, condoms, and abstinence? Why is the same group that opposes abortion, also generally oppose the distribution of birth control?
Final note:
Doesn't the bible say: "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."