Why are people so f*****g dense?

[jrwilheim]

Okay, I've been sending out letters to alumni of my college for the past couple months, trying to get informational interviews and thereby contacts that might lead to an actual honest-to-god job. So far, I've sent out well over 100 letters and gotten a grand total of 10 or so referrals. Here's are the kinds of responses I get, typically:

a) I don't know anyone in the field you're looking to go into (I have a hard time believing that upper middle class professional people in their 40s and 50s magically don't know anyone who works as a financial planner)

b) I'll contact this or that person on your behalf--this or that person being a person the alumnus met once at some event and has no contact info for except an email address. This contact invariably "never gets back" to the alumnus.

c) 20 minutes--of my cell phone minutes, mind you--giving me the whole history of alum's no doubt illustrious career, but no actual, usable or useful contacts

d) "Why don't you contact the alumni office?" Umm...where do you think I got your name from?

e) not a typical response, but one I got from someone today--he had said he would contact some people for me after Labor Day, and when I called him today to follow up, as he had planned, instaed of giving me useful names and addresses, he had just "taken a poll" of these people, whose advice was "go to business school." Good idea, Sherlock. What I need is a job NOW--not in two years, which is how long it would take for me to apply to business school for next fall, enroll, and graduate.

What is so hard about looking in your f*****g rolodex and giving me a name and address, letting ME make the contact, letting ME decide what it is I need/want out of these people? How can Ivy League educated people not have a basic understanding of how to play the networking game?

[cheshrcarol]

My parents are upper middle class and in their early 50's and I'm not sure they know any financial planners. They handle their investments themselves. Maybe the people you're contacting do the same.

Why not research what companies you'd like to work for and start contacting people there? For example, call up Charles Schwab or look up on the website who you'd talk to about financial planning. Then give that person a call or send them an email and see if they can give you some advice.

[WorkInProgress]

Yeah, that really, really sucks, and I'm sure it's incredibly frustrating. I'm sorry that I can't help you either. I'm sure you've already done this, but could you try contacting various financial planning companies in your area to see if they are looking for employees?

[CTGirl]

Do you have any interest in working for CitiGroup? I have a friend who does some sort of finance thing for them (I know virtually nothing about this field, lol), and he could put your resume into the right hands if you're interested.

[lonestar]

I tried using the alumni resources for my University too...every time I did I got some answer telling I me that I have to move to New York City because that's where all the jobs are. Stupid Dumbasses. Obviously there are a lot of jobs in NYC, but there are jobs elsewhere too, and I like living in Austin. And when I am looking for tips on approaching employers, it doesn't matter if I lived in New York or Katmandu...technique is technique. It's basically because I went to SUNY school where I was the "townie" (Buffalo) and everyone else was from NYC or Long Island.

I gave up after a while.

[winneythepooh7]

I also have a friend who is an HR person at Citigroup. I can't guarantee anything obviously, but if you want to email me your resume, I can send it to her.

[CTGirl]

I also have a friend who is an HR person at Citigroup. I can't guarantee anything obviously, but if you want to email me your resume, I can send it to her.

LOL, interesting, well it is a big company. Where does your friend work? Mine's in Stamford, CT.

[winneythepooh7]

Downtown Manhattan.

[LakeJay]

Downtown Manhattan.

I know an HR person there too...weird. That is Citigroup in Manhattan...not just Manhattan.

[CTGirl]

I know an HR person there too...weird. That is Citigroup in Manhattan...not just Manhattan.

My friend at Citigroup was thinking about transfering to the Manhattan branch too, but now I think he's gonna stay in Stamford cuz it looks like they're looking to promote him there (so he can make even more money :googly: )

[allie1105]

My cousin works on the trading floor at Citigroup (formally SmithBarney) and I could always pass your resume on...again, no promises, but I would be happy to try.

Actually, my other SIL works for Goldman Sachs (not sure what she does, but she is higher up) and I could check with her, too.

[jrwilheim]

Why not research what companies you'd like to work for and start contacting people there? For example, call up Charles Schwab or look up on the website who you'd talk to about financial planning. Then give that person a call or send them an email and see if they can give you some advice.

Actually, I haven't done that, largely because my college career office advised me not to try direct solicitations on the theory that your direct solicitation just ends up on a pile with 400 or so others, but I have considered doing a general broadcast letter to financial planners in my area. The Financial Planning Association (FPA) lists over 1,000 planners in the New York area. I just have to get a broadcast letter together, which is what I'm meeting with someone in my school's career office about next week. I'm going to try to get something together early next week, although that will be tough since I'm taking a proofreading course Sunday in the effort to find proofreading jobs in law firms (NOT what I really want to do, but it's time to find some piece-of-crap job just to pay the bills).

[jrwilheim]

Wow! Thanks for all the offers to send on my resume. I'll be contacting each of you probably early next week (I'm not currently at a computer where I can access my resume).

[jrwilheim]

My parents are upper middle class and in their early 50's and I'm not sure they know any financial planners. They handle their investments themselves. Maybe the people you're contacting do the same.


That's a possibility--I guess it's possible that people who work in finance don't feel the same need to hire planners as other people might. My instinct was that it was kind of unlikely for people who were working in the same general field not to know ANYONE who did this...

[jrwilheim]

I tried using the alumni resources for my University too...every time I did I got some answer telling I me that I have to move to New York City because that's where all the jobs are. Stupid Dumbasses. Obviously there are a lot of jobs in NYC, but there are jobs elsewhere too, and I like living in Austin. And when I am looking for tips on approaching employers, it doesn't matter if I lived in New York or Katmandu...technique is technique. It's basically because I went to SUNY school where I was the "townie" (Buffalo) and everyone else was from NYC or Long Island.

I gave up after a while.

Yeah...I love that kind of advice. Move to City X and all your problems will be solved. Thanks...and with what money am I supposed to make this move? And what am I supposed to do about the 1-year lease I just renewed on my apartment?

I actually don't feel as if there are a lot of jobs here in NYC. I've been contacting temp agencies like crazy, and they seem to do everything except send me out to work (although one of them did get me an interview at a finance company for next Tuesday). It just seems like you're competing with a million other people with the same credentials who decided to move here after college or because they needed a change from Cedar Rapids, Iowa or whatever.

I honestly wonder if some of these people have ever actually looked for a job.

[lonestar]

Honestly, many of the things that the alumni who are working are doing sound boring to me, too. When I thought I was interested in accounting, I talked with a guy who was an accountant, and it sounded rather boring...I thought maybe it was just him until I got into the field and realized it was (to me, anyway). I talked to a guy who worked for a law firm - boring...sits in an office all day. I can't seem to find anybody from my school with exciting jobs like aircraft mechanic or skydiving instructor or demolitions expert or bomb technician or Greyhound bus driver, policeman, etc., etc....so, I just gave up.

I may have a pretty dull job right now, but I am looking to find something that will excite me, and evey time I try to find somebody doing something like that on my alumni network it ends up with no matches...

[red]

I actually don't feel as if there are a lot of jobs here in NYC. I've been contacting temp agencies like crazy, and they seem to do everything except send me out to work (although one of them did get me an interview at a finance company for next Tuesday). It just seems like you're competing with a million other people with the same credentials who decided to move here after college or because they needed a change from Cedar Rapids, Iowa or whatever.

i totally totally agree. my brother has been looking for something entry-level, he's just out of school w/ an econ degree. the problem is that he has no real experience in his field. so he always seems to lose out to someone with more "background" even for jobs that are basically entry-level. many of these jobs don't even offer benefits! it's crazy to me. so i agree. there aren't lots of good entry-level jobs in nyc. my company is just as bad with this crap.

i graduated in a bad market too (1999) and i don't remember it being this bad.

[wordsmith]

Honestly, to me, many of the things that the alumni who are working are doing sound boring to me, too.

In all honesty, MOST people's jobs sound boring to me. Which can hinder networking.

[jrwilheim]

Honestly, to me, many of the things that the alumni who are working are doing sound boring to me, too. When I thought I was interested in accounting, I talked with a guy who was an accountant, and it sounded rather boring...I thought maybe it was just him until I got into the field and realized it was (to me, anyway). I talked to a guy who worked for a law firm - boring...sits in an office all day. I can't seem to find anybody from my school with exciting jobs like aircraft mechanic or skydiving instructor or demolitions expert or bomb technician or Greyhound bus driver, policeman, etc., etc....so, I just gave up.

I may have a pretty dull job right now, but I am looking to find something that will excite me, and evey time I try to find somebody doing something like that on my alumni network it ends up with no matches...

I have the opposite problem. What my alumni office does is refer you to this not very helpful website called E-Community, where some alumni have placed their information. I think they set this up because it was cheaper than actually compiling a real, paper alumni directory once a year and having someone in their office actually update the information.

Anyway...half the info is out of date, or the company no longer exists or has changed its phone number. The search features also don't allow you to do a specfiic enough search. For instance, "finance" could be almost anything vaguely finance-related...you could end up calling a bank teller or (as has happened to me more than once) someone who's set up an LLC or something like that to hide resume gaps or for tax purposes and has no other finance-related experience (UGGH!!).

[wordsmith]

i graduated in a bad market too (1999) and i don't remember it being this bad.

I graduated in 1999, and it didn't seem bad to me at the time (nowhere near as bad, now, anyway). But it just may have been my personal perspective, not indicative of the bigger picture.

[lonestar]

In all honesty, MOST people's jobs sound boring to me. Which can hinder networking.

I hear you...when someone starts talking about TPS reports or yadda yadda I start paying "half-attention" and realize that maybe I am just not cut out for this field or that field...ect. And it eventually goes nowhere...one time I was reading an alum's email and literally fell asleep. Maybe the problem is me...maybe I have to be a bit more excited about boring work or something...I don't know...

[jrwilheim]

I hear you...when someone starts talking about TPS reports or yadda yadda I start paying "half-attention" and realize that maybe I am just not cut out for this field or that field...ect. And it eventually goes nowhere...one time I was reading an alum's email and literally fell asleep. Maybe the problem is me...maybe I have to be a bit more excited about boring work or something...I don't know...

I wish I could get alumni to write long, boring emails about what they do. Mostly, they prove to be unreachable or they are unhelpful as I have described.

About the most I've gotten, so far, is one alum who referred me to a bigwig at an institute that handles money management, who invited me to a big networking event in NYC in a couple weeks. I've also gotten one alum who is going to put me in contact with the head of alumni affairs at my college, in the hopes that this person will provide me with some USEFUL people to speak to. But that's about the most I've gotten out of 100+ letters sent.

[lonestar]

Here's the other issue for me: it seems like so many jobs are the same. Sure there are little differences: you work with Photoshop instead of Excel, you work with numbers instead of words, this guy gets mail and that girl sends mail, you deal with people face to face instead of on the phone...it all sounds the SAME! I read a job description for an accountant and one for a HR person, and aside from the nitpicky stuff (software, duties) the job descriptions were: 90% office work, 10% outside the office work. So if you both people work 2000 hours this year, they will spend 1800 of those hours sitting on their duffs looking at a computer screen...probably looking at QLC.com...same exact thing I am doing now!

does it ever change? This is why I wish I went to Pirate College...Pirates have exciting lives! ARGGG!

[red]

totally. my job is totally totally boring. i spend 90% of my time on my duff staring at a computer screen.

i have like a personal thing with the whole "you need an internship/experience" thing. most of the interns at my company end up filing, answering phones, going through slush mail, etc. why pray tell, do you need to waste your precious unpaid time doing this in order to get a job later on? i always try to take time with interns and let them do something interesting while they are with us.

also, many of the people i work with who have so-called experience are total clowns. they know less than i do. i wonder sometimes how anything gets done at work.

when i graduated in 1999/2000, it coincided with the end of the tech bust here in NYC. 2001 was even worse. everyone i knew was getting laid off. it was really bad here. i took a job in another city in 99, hated it, ran off to europe for a few months even though i was broke, and then came back to nyc. but it wasn't a pretty market. not like when some of my older friends graduated.

[PenforPrez]

I wish I could get help from my alumni office. The engineers have no problem accessing alumni help, but because I'm the rare BA grad, I get denied.

Of course, I could shell out $100 for the full alumni directory, but I need a little more help than that. :googly:

Paul

[Starsailor]

Your alumni office sounds about as useful as my college's career office. When I contacted them for advice about 5 mths into unemployment, their advice was so unhelpful and unrealistic, especially considering they knew the details of my situation. They told me to do internships for experience and to network, but that requires having money to begin with to live off most times (finding a place to live, transportation, and the other obvious expenses). They told me to regularly check industry magazines for job listings, but those materials aren't readily accessible where I live. I was basically left with the traditional method which got me nowhere.

I hope you have some luck with the offers from members on here :)

[winneythepooh7]

Your alumni office sounds about as useful as my college's career office. When I contacted them for advice about 5 mths into unemployment, their advice was so unhelpful and unrealistic, especially considering they knew the details of my situation. They told me to do internships for experience and to network, but that requires having money to begin with to live off most times (finding a place to live, transportation, and the other obvious expenses). They told me to regularly check industry magazines for job listings, but those materials aren't readily accessible where I live. I was basically left with the traditional method which got me nowhere.

I hope you have some luck with the offers from members on here :)


Honestly, how helpful can alumni offices really be? Realistically, how many of us are really in contact with our former schools? I mean, beyond the every couple-of-year change of address, email, and career information updates. Unless someone is constantly in contact about open positions with the school, I don't see how this is going to be a totally sucessful route to go. I've also sent job opening stuff in the past to my former grad school to post on their website under job listings...........they really chopped the postings up a lot, leaving off a lot of important details. I had one person contact me that way so far, and she was a total idiot IMHO. Not that has anything to do with the school, just my only dealings this way........

[Starsailor]

Honestly, how helpful can alumni offices really be? Realistically, how many of us are really in contact with our former schools? I mean, beyond the every couple-of-year change of address, email, and career information updates. Unless someone is constantly in contact about open positions with the school, I don't see how this is going to be a totally sucessful route to go. I've also sent job opening stuff in the past to my former grad school to post on their website under job listings...........they really chopped the postings up a lot, leaving off a lot of important details. I had one person contact me that way so far, and she was a total idiot IMHO. Not that has anything to do with the school, just my only dealings this way........
Well, part of my frustration with my college's career office (I can't speak for alumni offices, never used mine), aside from the general frustration related to unemployment, was that during my four years at school, it was such a huge deal about how significant the office could be in your job search. They were always putting their name out their as a resource that could really make a difference. That's laughable. All they did, and all they offered to do, was give the pathetic advice I mentioned before - things any sensible person has already thought of when being unemployed for 5 mths. They were just as unhelpful for everyone else I know who contacted them after graduation.

[winneythepooh7]

Well, part of my frustration with my college's career office (I can't speak for alumni offices, never used mine), aside from the general frustration related to unemployment, was that during my four years at school, it was such a huge deal about how significant the office could be in your job search. They were always putting their name out their as a resource that could really make a difference. That's laughable. All they did, and all they offered to do, was give the pathetic advice I mentioned before - things any sensible person has already thought of when being unemployed for 5 mths. They were just as unhelpful for everyone else I know who contacted them after graduation.

That's because colleges are businesses looking to make $$$$. They tell you that so you are fooled into thinking that you are guaranteed a job upon graduating from their institution. There are no guarantees in life though. This is one of the biggest problems I think new grads have. They are spoon-fed from their schools that once they have that degree, they can do anything. Sadly, many grads buy into this BS.

[Starsailor]

I don't think that really applies to me, or my friends. We didn't buy into any of that BS or think holding a BA was a free ticket to instant employment (these days, it's merely the first step). We did expect, and rightfully so in my opinion, the career office to be of more meaningful assistance. Though, with some of the experiences we had with them when doing our internships, perhaps we should have known better than to expect anything from them but incompetence.

[winneythepooh7]

I don't think that really applies to me, or my friends. We didn't buy into any of that BS or think holding a BA was a free ticket to instant employment (these days, it's merely the first step). We did expect, and rightfully so in my opinion, the career office to be of more meaningful assistance. Though, with some of the experiences we had with them when doing our internships, perhaps we should have known better than to expect anything from them but incompetence.

So then if it's not working for you, try other alternative options in finding employment.

[Starsailor]

I'm not still trying to find employment. I'm in grad school. Your posts required responses.