QLC Men and Marriage

[WorkInProgress]

I have a problem with the coming and going as you please thing, because I don't see that checking in and letting a spouse know where you are, when to expect you back is a real infringement on freedom. I just see it as courtesy.

I actually think that this is not a big deal at all. Maybe because I've been raised that way by parents who might be considered overprotective in some ways. ("I don't care that you're going, I just want to know where to look for the body and when to start being worried."). At any rate, I want to be able to have something to tell the cops in case whoever goes missing. I have no issues whatsoever about letting the parents/the roommate/the bf/the husband know where I'm going and when I intend to be back. I would be a little frightened, actually if I had nobody to tell, nobody to miss me, etc.

[wordsmith]

I actually think that this is not a big deal at all. Maybe because I've been raised that way by parents who might be considered overprotective in some ways. ("I don't care that you're going, I just want to know where to look for the body and when to start being worried."). At any rate, I want to be able to have something to tell the cops in case whoever goes missing. I have no issues whatsoever about letting the parents/the roommate/the bf/the husband know where I'm going and when I intend to be back. I would be a little frightened, actually if I had nobody to tell, nobody to miss me, etc.

I was raised similarly. I had no curfew growing up, as long as I updated my parents on my whereabouts so they didn't worry. So my thought is that this is basic courtesy when you do have people who need to know your whereabouts. I just can't see that it's a big freedom stifler.

[WorkInProgress]

I just can't see that it's a big freedom stifler.

I think it gets confused with asking permission. Which, of course, does stifle freedom.

[CTGirl]

I actually think that this is not a big deal at all. Maybe because I've been raised that way by parents who might be considered overprotective in some ways. ("I don't care that you're going, I just want to know where to look for the body and when to start being worried."). At any rate, I want to be able to have something to tell the cops in case whoever goes missing. I have no issues whatsoever about letting the parents/the roommate/the bf/the husband know where I'm going and when I intend to be back. I would be a little frightened, actually if I had nobody to tell, nobody to miss me, etc.

Exactly. When my former roommate decided to stop speaking to me, and would disappear for days at a time, I would get worried, cuz no one, including her own roommate, knew where she was (and as a Law & Order fan, I'm envisioning scenes where the cops are asking me where I think she is, lol)

As for bf/husband situations: as long as I know where you are and know that you're not doing something you shouldnt be (messing around with another girl, doing something illegal) I don't really care what you do.

[wordsmith]

I think it gets confused with asking permission. Which, of course, does stifle freedom.


I just mean the letting people know where you are thing.

[wordsmith]

As for bf/husband situations: as long as I know where you are and know that you're not doing something you shouldnt be (messing around with another girl, doing something illegal) I don't really care what you do.

Same here, for the most part, but I really would have a problem with it if it were a constant thing. I wouldn't get married if I wanted to be continuously on my own doing my own thing, to be honest, and if that's what guy truly wants, he probably shoudn't get married, either.

[WorkInProgress]

Exactly. When my former roommate decided to stop speaking to me, and would disappear for days at a time, I would get worried, cuz no one, including her own roommate, knew where she was (and as a Law & Order fan, I'm envisioning scenes where the cops are asking me where I think she is, lol).

This thing is, this happens. It's not like cop shows are making it up.

[WorkInProgress]

Same here, for the most part, but I really would have a problem with it if it were a constant thing. I wouldn't get married if I wanted to be continuously on my own doing my own thing, to be honest, and if that's what guy truly wants, he probably shoudn't get married, either.

Agreed. But an occasional thing can be worked out...then it's all about compromise.

[CTGirl]

This thing is, this happens. It's not like cop shows are making it up.

Of course, but I think watching these shows makes me think about it that much more.

I never got the "thrill" of running off having no one know where you are. Just seems dangerous to me.....

[Winter Storm]

I have a problem with the coming and going as you please thing, because I don't see that checking in and letting a spouse know where you are, when to expect you back is a real infringement on freedom (I know a lot of guys, including my dad, do). I just see it as courtesy.


It would be just a courtesy if no one ever had a problem with it but I've seen a few cases where one spouse does have an issue with the other going to certain places, hanging out with certain friends, doing certain things, etc. and doesn't want them to go. It's led to fights and disagreements.

[WorkInProgress]

It would be just a courtesy if no one ever had a problem with it but I've seen a few cases where one spouse does have an issue with the other going to certain places, hanging out with certain friends, doing certain things, etc. and doesn't want them to go. It's led to fights and disagreements.

True...this would be an infringement on freedom.

[wordsmith]

I can only speak for myself.

My ex's best friend was one of the biggest idiots I've ever known, routinely drove drunk, etc. So when they wanted to go out, it was a worry for me, sure. But I couldn't exactly say, "You can't go." People can do what they want.

[cache]

I was just giving an example. Let me clarify a few things:

1. I never neglect obligations - whether they are work or personal related. I would never just call off work with "yeah, I'm in Arizona somewhere" or blow off plans with a gf/friend. I would only take off if there was nothing on the schedule.

2. Taking off for days at a time with no prior plans or agenda: I do it maybe once every few years. Typically, I am out driving for a few hours, which I would say happens about once a month.

3. When married, I would never expect or even want to take off for days at a time by myself. If I took off, I'd want my wife to be with me. Isn't that the point?

My example was just trying to explain some people's opinion about "losing freedom" with marriage...

[Kitty]

Well, I think when you get married or are in any LTR, you sort of are expected to let your SO know what you're doing and where you're going. I'd be distraught if D just didn't come home from work one night at the normal time and then walked through the door at like 2 in the morning.

[wordsmith]

Oh, I know it was only a hypothetical. So were my counterpoints.



1. I never neglect obligations - whether they are work or personal related. I would never just call off work with "yeah, I'm in Arizona somewhere" or blow off plans with a gf/friend. I would only take off if there was nothing on the schedule.

That's good...and I don't see a problem with that sort of thing.

2. Taking off for days at a time with no prior plans or agenda: I do it maybe once every few years. Typically, I am out driving for a few hours, which I would say happens about once a month.

I don't see a problem with something like this, either. It's not something somebody married to me would have to "give up."

3. When married, I would never expect or even want to take off for days at a time by myself. If I took off, I'd want my wife to be with me. Isn't that the point?

I think so...in that case, it's not really losing freedom, then, isn't it? It's just finding new activities or incorporating somebody else into old ones.

[mishl982]

I don't really get how some people think "losing your freedom" comes with marriage because how is it any different than being in a long-term relationship? If you (in general, not specific to anyone here) are avoiding marriage because you don't want to give up your freedom, how is it any different if you're in a LTR? And if you're freaked out about losing freedom, or your SO isn't giving it to you, maybe you should rethink the relationship.

With that being said, LTR or marriage, or even short term relationship, I don't put any restrictions on what my bf can and can't do, and he does the same for me. As long as you don't spend every waking moment together and both parties goes and does their own thing sometimes then I don't see how any freedom is lost. No one makes the other person do something they don't want to do. Maybe you'll have to check in on someone once in awhile or check up with the other's plans, but that's not a biggie.

[CTGirl]

Yeah, I never understood the whole idea of relationships being "restricting" until I spoke to my male friends about it, and realized it was because they'd all dated controling bitches, and thought all women would be like that in a serious relationship :googly:

The way I see it, when you're in a relationship, you can do all the same things you did before, you just get to bring someone else along with you.

[WorkInProgress]

I was just giving an example. Let me clarify a few things:

1. I never neglect obligations - whether they are work or personal related. I would never just call off work with "yeah, I'm in Arizona somewhere" or blow off plans with a gf/friend. I would only take off if there was nothing on the schedule.

2. Taking off for days at a time with no prior plans or agenda: I do it maybe once every few years. Typically, I am out driving for a few hours, which I would say happens about once a month.

3. When married, I would never expect or even want to take off for days at a time by myself. If I took off, I'd want my wife to be with me. Isn't that the point?

My example was just trying to explain some people's opinion about "losing freedom" with marriage...

I've got no issues with 1 or 2. And actually, none with 3 either. If, in this hypothetical situation, I were the wife, I'd be totally ok with some space every now and again. I think this can be healthy and beneficial. I would, however, be upset if every (or most of the) time my husband wanted to take a vacation he didn't want to take me, but for sometimes, I think it's very doable. This is where the compromise comes in, IMO. (Besides, I might need space too!)

[wordsmith]

The way I see it, when you're in a relationship, you can do all the same things you did before, you just get to bring someone else along with you.

I look at it that way, too. I can't think of any activities I've actually given up (besides dating, hah) when in a relationship.

[WorkInProgress]

Yeah, I never understood the whole idea of relationships being "restricting" until I spoke to my male friends about it, and realized it was because they'd all dated controling bitches, and thought all women would be like that in a serious relationship :googly:

Hm...maybe that's the problem?

[Winter Storm]

I look at it that way, too. I can't think of any activities I've actually given up (besides dating, hah) when in a relationship.

I haven't either. When I was in a relationship, I still did what I wanted when I wanted. But I have known of some people couples where one had a problem with certain activities and how long the were doing them and it had to be restricted, cut back or stopped. Caused problems.

[wordsmith]

If, in this hypothetical situation, I were the wife, I'd be totally ok with some space every now and again. I think this can be healthy and beneficial. I would, however, be upset if every (or most of the) time my husband wanted to take a vacation he didn't want to take me, but for sometimes, I think it's very doable. This is where the compromise comes in, IMO. (Besides, I might need space too!)

I agree. I wouldn't want to take only separate vacations, but I think that spouses can have getaways from time to time that don't have to involve the other spouse.

My mom is actually currently miserable, because my dad is insisting that she come on a long weekend retreat to Wisconsin over the Columbus Day weekend, where he's going to go out pheasant hunting. My mom has NO desire to go whatsoever (she doesn't hunt, and it's not fun for her to drive 500 miles to sit in a cottage alone), she's said a million times she'd rather stay home and relax, and he can go with his buddies or bring my brother, or something. He won't hear of it, he says he'd feel guilty just taking off on his own. She's like "NO, DON'T FEEL GUILTY. I DON'T WANT TO GO."

[wordsmith]

I haven't either. When I was in a relationship, I still did what I wanted when I wanted. But I have known of some people couples where one had a problem with certain activities and how long the were doing them and it had to be restricted, cut back or stopped. Caused problems.

Like what, out of curiosity?

I'm guessing strip clubs and the like, or partying-related things.

[cache]

I would, however, be upset if every (or most of the) time my husband wanted to take a vacation he didn't want to take me, but for sometimes, I think it's very doable. This is where the compromise comes in, IMO. (Besides, I might need space too!)

That would be just weird to me. I can understand someone going to the Superbowl with they guys and no wives for a few days, or something like that, but a regular vacation? I guess I look at a vacation, even a weekend as a "hey, we've worked hard the last few months, let's enjoy it" kind of a thing.

[Winter Storm]

Like what, out of curiosity?

I'm guessing strip clubs and the like, or partying-related things.

No, just the same regular activities they used to do with friends. See your PM.

[wordsmith]

Gotcha, and responded.

[coll214]

Whew this sucker took a cyinics turn about 8 pages back!

Any guy that would try to restrict my activities when in a relationship wouldn't be in one with me for long. and I would hope vice versa.

[WorkInProgress]

That would be just weird to me. I can understand someone going to the Superbowl with they guys and no wives for a few days, or something like that, but a regular vacation? I guess I look at a vacation, even a weekend as a "hey, we've worked hard the last few months, let's enjoy it" kind of a thing.

May be weird (but I never said I wasn't!)...but, um, if the guy doesn't want to spend that time alone, even though the woman would be ok with it (and maybe even encourage it), how is it possibly an infringement on his freedom? I think I'm confused.

[wordsmith]

Right...it's only an infringement on freedom if you absolute MUST have time to go off and do your own thing, solo, absolutely whenever you please, no questions asked. But that's not so conducive to relationships, whatever those relationships might be, because it's not really very considerate. So in that case, marriage may not be a good choice.

[Wolfpack21]

I haven't either. When I was in a relationship, I still did what I wanted when I wanted. But I have known of some people couples where one had a problem with certain activities and how long the were doing them and it had to be restricted, cut back or stopped. Caused problems.

During one of my past relationships I had an issue with certain activities. I enjoyed being around the girl, but we had two different risk levels and like a fair number of women, she tried to change me. She hated risky stuff and I loved it. So anytime I did anything with cars, boating, diving, etc she had a problem over it and asked me to curtail it or stop it completely. I ended up giving in just to keep her happy, but in the end I wasn't happy. She hated sportbikes, powerboats, sailing, etc. Thought they were too dangerous and I'd end up hurt.

I have no problem with taking precautions and being safe, but when you're asking someone to completely stop an activity they enjoy (as long as its not illegal or something), then that's crossing the line in my book

A lot of very successful guys give up their activities when they marry and have kids anyways. With a 60hr work week plus family, there's not much time left over for much of anything.

[CTGirl]

During one of my past relationships I had an issue with certain activities. I enjoyed being around the girl, but we had two different risk levels and like a fair number of women, she tried to change me. She hated risky stuff and I loved it. So anytime I did anything with cars, boating, diving, etc she had a problem over it and asked me to curtail it or stop it completely. I ended up giving in just to keep her happy, but in the end I wasn't happy. She hated sportbikes, powerboats, sailing, etc. Thought they were too dangerous and I'd end up hurt.

I have no problem with taking precautions and being safe, but when you're asking someone to completely stop an activity they enjoy (as long as its not illegal or something), then that's crossing the line in my book

A lot of very successful guys give up their activities when they marry and have kids anyways. With a 60hr work week plus family, there's not much time left over for much of anything.

See, it's girls like that who make it hard for the rest of us :googly:

And I don't see why men have to give up their hobbies when they get married and have kids, my father never did. I think many men just lose sight of what's really important and get caugh up in the social machine.

[Winter Storm]

And I don't see why men have to give up their hobbies when they get married and have kids, my father never did. I think many men just lose sight of what's really important and get caugh up in the social machine.

I only know that sometimes you can't have a single man's life after you are married and particularly when you have kids. It can interfere with other responsibilities. Essentially, I'd think the spouse and children would come first and when they aren't prioritized that way, trouble ensues.

A single person can do whatever they want, whenever they want. A married parent needs to consider the spouse, the home and the children first.

[CTGirl]

I only know that sometimes you can't have a single man's life after you are married and particularly when you have kids. It can interfere with other responsibilities. Essentially, I'd think the spouse and children would come first and when they aren't prioritized that way, trouble ensues.

A single person can do whatever they want, whenever they want. A married parent needs to consider the spouse, the home and the children first.

I suppose that's true, but I guess I always saw that as a matter of one's interests changing - in that a man's kids would become more important to him than going fishing with his buddies, so he wouldnt really mind. To me, if you don't feel that way, you prolly shouldnt be having a family.

[Winter Storm]

I suppose that's true, but I guess I always saw that as a matter of one's interests changing - in that a man's kids would become more important to him than going fishing with his buddies, so he wouldnt really mind. To me, if you don't feel that way, you prolly shouldnt be having a family.

I see that too but I also think people don't know exactly how they are going to be as a parent until they get there. They start out with the best of intentions (and let's face it, most fall completely in love with their kids as infants and toddlers) but as time goes on, people change, interests change, feelings change...

[cache]

I suppose that's true, but I guess I always saw that as a matter of one's interests changing - in that a man's kids would become more important to him than going fishing with his buddies, so he wouldnt really mind. To me, if you don't feel that way, you prolly shouldnt be having a family.

Agreed...I spend a lot of time hiking and camping. When I have kids, I would love to introduce them to outdoor living. Same hobby, different focus.

[wordsmith]

I only know that sometimes you can't have a single man's life after you are married and particularly when you have kids. It can interfere with other responsibilities. Essentially, I'd think the spouse and children would come first and when they aren't prioritized that way, trouble ensues.

A single person can do whatever they want, whenever they want. A married parent needs to consider the spouse, the home and the children first.

Married or unmarried, it's generally called growing up and prioritizing responsibilities, whatever they may be. Doesn't mean the fun's over, it means you schedule it around responsiblities, whether you're a man, woman, single, or married.

I think this "giving up freedom" or, reprioritizing life with mind given to responsbilities, is pretty much a part of life and being an adult, not a part of marriage.

[Winter Storm]

Married or unmarried, it's generally called growing up and prioritizing responsibilities, whatever they may be. Doesn't mean the fun's over, it means you schedule it around responsiblities, whether you're a man, woman, single, or married.

I think this "giving up freedom" or, reprioritizing life with mind given to responsbilities, is pretty much a part of life and being an adult, not a part of marriage.

Not that I am in anyway anti-marriage or pro-singledom, cause I'm not, but I think there are still a different level of responsibilities and prioritizing within a marriage that you don't have as a single person.

As a single person, I don't have anyone else to consider in my decision making but myself. And my decisions needs only be scheduled around responsibilities, not people and their thoughts and feelings. If I wanna move out of state, I just move outta state. It affects no one else but me. If I wanna quit my job, it only affects me. In a marriage, there are other people involved and thus have to be considered.

A single person can choose to continue on with a carefree, child-like existence, a spouse or a parent needs to become an adult and take on certain responsibilities. Two totally different types of freedoms to me.

[wordsmith]

Not that I am in anyway anti-marriage or pro-singledom, cause I'm not, but I think there are still a different level of responsibilities and prioritizing within a marriage that you don't have as a single person.

As a single person, I don't have anyone else to consider in my decision making but myself. And my decisions needs only be scheduled around responsibilities, not people and their thoughts and feelings. If I wanna move out of state, I just move outta state. It affects no one else but me. If I wanna quit my job, it only affects me. In a marriage, there are other people involved and thus have to be considered.

A single person can choose to continue on with a carefree, child-like existence, a spouse or a parent needs to become an adult and take on certain responsibilities. Two totally different types of freedoms to me.


I think the priorities are differnt, but I don't know if there's a tiered hierarchy. You still have responsiblities when you're single, you can't just run wild and not see to them. You can't really be childlike and carefree. You still have adult responsibilities.

Either way, it's a choice. When you're married and have kids, you're not shackled with the related responsibilities. You have them because you chose to have a wife and kids. It's not a prison sentence, it's something you choose. But you don't have to give up your life to be married. You might...but you don't HAVE to.

[Wolfpack21]

See, it's girls like that who make it hard for the rest of us :googly:

And I don't see why men have to give up their hobbies when they get married and have kids, my father never did. I think many men just lose sight of what's really important and get caugh up in the social machine.

It's dependent on the job, but if you have a very demanding job plus a couple kids, there's still only 24hrs in a day. Investment banking, medical, law, entrepreneur, etc. Any highly stressful in demand field that takes a big chunk of your time combined with raising kids means you don't have a lot of time or energy left to continue your previous hobbies. Goes the same way for women who work in the same fields. I know guys who have to find the time to watch Monday night football and they might make it half way through the game before they're already dead tired. Now once your kids get older it probably gets easier, but when they're young yeah you have to set your priorities and give up some things. I know my father did.

[LaFille]

I suppose that's true, but I guess I always saw that as a matter of one's interests changing - in that a man's kids would become more important to him than going fishing with his buddies, so he wouldnt really mind. To me, if you don't feel that way, you prolly shouldnt be having a family.

i hear stories from my dad's friend about when they were in college and how my dad was a crazy, drunken, pot smoking, woman chasing frat boy. and i'm like, this is the guy who took me to ballet practice and helped me pick out pink easter dresses?!!?

[and1grad]

A single person can choose to continue on with a carefree, child-like existence, a spouse or a parent needs to become an adult and take on certain responsibilities. Two totally different types of freedoms to me.
HA! What single people do you hang around? I dont know anyone who lives a care-free, childlike existence anymore. People have responsibilities that cant be ignored before they have children or even an SO. I think maybe the people you're talking about are people who are choosing not be adults and in that case, they were, or would be, stupid to enter a relationship and/or have kids in the first place.

[LaFille]

HA! What single people do you hang around? I dont know anyone who lives a care-free, childlike existence anymore. People have responsibilities that cant be ignored before they have children or even an SO. I think maybe the people you're talking about are people who are choosing not be adults and in that case, they were, or would be, stupid to enter a relationship and/or have kids in the first place.

maybe 'carefree and childlike' is an exageration, but i know plenty of people who were immature until they got serious about marriage and kids and then buckled down. i just thought of my brother who before he met my SIL was a total slacker who didn't ever want to get married or have a job where he couldn't drink every night... and now he's married, responsible, has a good job, is going to grad school and expecting a baby... priorities change. i'm not saying everyone's change should be or has to be so drastic, but it's a good example.

[Winter Storm]

HA! What single people do you hang around? I dont know anyone who lives a care-free, childlike existence anymore. People have responsibilities that cant be ignored before they have children or even an SO. I think maybe the people you're talking about are people who are choosing not be adults and in that case, they were, or would be, stupid to enter a relationship and/or have kids in the first place.

I'm not talking about anyone I know personally, just speaking hypothetically. And before I moved out on my own, I considered my life very carefree and childlike. I paid no bills, ate off someone else and did whatever. It wasn't much different from when I was a teen. I had little responsibilities.

What I'm saying is a single person can choose to have this kind of life, because they only have to worry about themselves, while a married person needs to step up because they have more to consider. And stepping up and taking care of those responsibilities involves making sacrifices which may inhibit some freedoms.

[CTGirl]

Agreed...I spend a lot of time hiking and camping. When I have kids, I would love to introduce them to outdoor living. Same hobby, different focus.

Exactly, that's what my parents did, they never had to give up their hobbies/interests, they just brought a couple more people along with them.

[Winter Storm]

maybe 'carefree and childlike' is an exageration, but i know plenty of people who were immature until they got serious about marriage and kids and then buckled down. i just thought of my brother who before he met my SIL was a total slacker who didn't ever want to get married or have a job where he couldn't drink every night... and now he's married, responsible, has a good job, is going to grad school and expecting a baby... priorities change. i'm not saying everyone's change should be or has to be so drastic, but it's a good example.

I think this is a good example. When he was single he had a choice to be a slacker. After he got married, he could only really stay a slacker if his wife didn't mind. He has to consider her now. And the baby. There's more at stake.

[and1grad]

i'm not saying everyone's change should be or has to be so drastic, but it's a good example.
I think the fact that the change is obviously drastic, makes it not that great of an example. Its just not the norm.

[tina1979]

I think the fact that the change is obviously drastic, makes it not that great of an example. Its just not the norm.
I don't know... my ex-husbands fraternity brother was kinda the same way.

changed jobs all the time, cheated on his girlfriend, partied too much, but when he made the decision to settle down and marry said girlfriend...you couldn't ask for a better husband and father. maybe its more normal than we notice.

[Winter Storm]

I think the fact that the change is obviously drastic, makes it not that great of an example. Its just not the norm.

I'm not sure I'm following you.

But I expect my life and lifestyle to change dramatically after marriage and kids. I definitely live a single girl's life. Partying, drinking and socializing most weekends, coming home the next morning or afternoon, living off popcorn, cereal and cheese, sleeping in til 3-5pm, spending all my money on clothes, entertainment and me. I'd think most of that will change after marriage. And most of my friends lead the same self-involved lifestyles. I'm sure it will change for them too if they marry and have kids.

And it doesn't mean its a bad sacrifice, but a sacrifice nonetheless.

[and1grad]

maybe its more normal than we notice.
I think if it were more normal, we wouldnt notice.

[LaFille]

I think the fact that the change is obviously drastic, makes it not that great of an example. Its just not the norm.

i'm not quite sure that it's NOT the norm though. i've seen plenty of other people become exponentially more responsible after getting married... women and men.

[Winter Storm]

i'm not quite sure that it's NOT the norm though. i've seen plenty of other people become exponentially more responsible after getting married... women and men.

Yeah, cause you know, you kinda have to. You don't really have the choice like you do when you're single!!!!!

[cache]

Wow...21 pages of men and marriage. Whoda thunk it. :eek:

[WorkInProgress]

Yeah, cause you know, you kinda have to. You don't really have the choice like you do when you're single!!!!!

lol. Love the shouting. And I agree. (Although some people don't ever grow up, even when they have kids. I've met a couple.)

[and1grad]

Ok...well I guess growing up gradually is abnormal then. My bad.

[Winter Storm]

Ok...well I guess growing up gradually is abnormal then. My bad.

This isn't about growing up. This is about how I feel that a single person with no kids will generally have less responsibility and hence more freedom than a married person with kids.

Even if that married person with child still got to enjoy all the same luxuries they did as a single person, there is still some loss of freedom that comes with marriage and enhanced responsibilites, namely putting a spouse and child's needs before your own.

I won't even kid myself into believing that if I marry and have kids, I will have the same freedom that I do now as a single, childless person. I will lose some of it to marital sacrifice and compromise.

[wordsmith]

I won't even kid myself into believing that if I marry and have kids, I will have the same freedom that I do now as a single, childless person. I will lose some of it to marital sacrifice and compromise.

But that's because "freedom" to you means a certain thing. To me, it might mean another. For instance, I don't do any of the things you listed that you do with your single gal lifestyle, at least, not on anything close to resembling a regular basis. So whereas having a spouse and kids would mean the end to freedom, in that regard, for you, to me, my freedom's not changed one bit. So it's pretty specific to the individual, wouldn't you say? There isn't anything that I do right now (with the exception of dating) that I couldn't do with a spouse and family. I'm not saying life wouldn't change, but I wouldn't be sacrificing what I consider to be freedoms.

[Winter Storm]

So it's pretty specific to the individual, wouldn't you say?

Yes, I would definitely say it varies individually.

[CTGirl]

But that's because "freedom" to you means a certain thing. To me, it might mean another. For instance, I don't do any of the things you listed that you do with your single gal lifestyle, at least, not on anything close to resembling a regular basis. So whereas having a spouse and kids would mean the end to freedom, in that regard, for you, to me, my freedom's not changed one bit. So it's pretty specific to the individual, wouldn't you say? There isn't anything that I do right now (with the exception of dating) that I couldn't do with a spouse and family. I'm not saying life wouldn't change, but I wouldn't be sacrificing what I consider to be freedoms.

Agreed, same here, dating is the only activity that would need to change in my life.

[stonemonkey]

I guess the lost 'freedom' refers to the single lifestyle. Going to parties, flirting, getting trashed. Having to report back and let them know your whereabouts. What if you just wanted to pack up and leave the country for a while? Sometimes you just get sick of being around the same person all the time.

Maybe we've only known high maintenance girls who were so insecure that they needed to keep tabs on us 24/7 and to be reassured all the time that we weren't seeing anyone else that we've become paranoid about losing our freedom.

But I agree that you don't necessarily have to lose any freedom at all. I'm actually surprised to see that girls here don't expect a guy to 'settle down' upon marriage. It's different to what real life girls have told me.

[CTGirl]

I guess the lost 'freedom' refers to the single lifestyle. Going to parties, flirting, getting trashed. Having to report back and let them know your whereabouts. What if you just wanted to pack up and leave the country for a while? Sometimes you just get sick of being around the same person all the time.


Is this really how grown men think? Cuz I thought this was limited to college boys :razz:

[LaFille]

even if you just get a dog or cat, or even a friggin goldfish, you have to change your life to accomidate this new 'being' in your life. ok, not so much for the goldfish. but all of a sudden you have to worry about getting them walked and fed and brushed. you can't just skip town on the weekend because you have to make arrangements. if they eat a pile of garbage, you have to shell out money to get them medicine. if they get hit by a car, you have to deal with the emotional trauma of losing them. and that's just a PET!

[Winter Storm]

.....I It's different to what real life girls have told me.

I've found my real life and experiences to be soooo much different from what I read here on the boards. But it's always good to get new and different perspectives.

[stonemonkey]

Well, I'm not a grown man. Not everyone's in a relationship where, to all intents an purposes, they're already practically married. In which case marriage is just a wedding ceremony and no big lifestyle change.

[stonemonkey]

even if you just get a dog or cat, or even a friggin goldfish, you have to change your life to accomidate this new 'being' in your life.

wait, are we talking about kids or marriage? because kids is probably going to be a separate 20-page thread.

[Winter Storm]

even if you just get a dog or cat, or even a friggin goldfish, you have to change your life to accomidate this new 'being' in your life. ok, not so much for the goldfish. but all of a sudden you have to worry about getting them walked and fed and brushed. you can't just skip town on the weekend because you have to make arrangements. if they eat a pile of garbage, you have to shell out money to get them medicine. if they get hit by a car, you have to deal with the emotional trauma of losing them. and that's just a PET!

Yep. I loss some freedom when I got a cat. Now I have to come home at some point cause there is another little mouth to feed. If I'm taking a trip, I gotta make arrangements for her.

[vivo]

Just an aside, isn't there also thinking that a woman marrying a man saves his life. as in puts him on the straight and narrow?

[Winter Storm]

Just an aside, isn't there also thinking that a woman marrying a man saves his life. as in puts him on the straight and narrow?
Uh......you lost me.
:confused:

[stonemonkey]

Just an aside, isn't there also thinking that a woman marrying a man saves his life. as in puts him on the straight and narrow?

Yeah, but I don't put much faith in conventional wisdom. You just need to find the right woman. One who won't put you on the straight and narrow, who basically lets you do whatever you want.

[cache]

I guess the lost 'freedom' refers to the single lifestyle. Going to parties, flirting, getting trashed. Having to report back and let them know your whereabouts. What if you just wanted to pack up and leave the country for a while? Sometimes you just get sick of being around the same person all the time.
Is this really how grown men think? Cuz I thought this was limited to college boys :razz:

See, it's guys like that who make it hard for the rest of us :googly:

[cache]

Just an aside, isn't there also thinking that a woman marrying a man saves his life. as in puts him on the straight and narrow?


Along the same lines:

A study recently came out that said married men are healthier and live longer...primarily because there is a woman there who makes them go to the dooctor. A single guy can ignore his chest pains for as long as he wants...

[stonemonkey]

I guess the two big 'lost freedoms' for me are still being able to date other people and having to let them know where I am and what I'm doing all the time. I know that for alot of people they have no problem letting these things go, and that's great, but I don't think it'd be easy for me to let them go.

[wordsmith]

I guess the lost 'freedom' refers to the single lifestyle. Going to parties, flirting, getting trashed. Having to report back and let them know your whereabouts. What if you just wanted to pack up and leave the country for a while? Sometimes you just get sick of being around the same person all the time.


Uh, just to note...this is NOT the only "single lifestyle." There isn't any one "single lifestyle." Different people live different ways. I'm single, that's not and has never been my lifestyle.

Just an aside, isn't there also thinking that a woman marrying a man saves his life. as in puts him on the straight and narrow?

Wha?? If you're a woman who wants to marry a man who is NOT ALREADY on the "straight and narrow," and think you're gonna be the one to "make him see the light," and rehabilitate him, somehow, I've got absolutely NO sympathy for the shit life and unhappiness you're more than likely setting yourself up for.

[LaFille]

wait, are we talking about kids or marriage? because kids is probably going to be a separate 20-page thread.

well, i was referring to marriage. any additional responsibility in your life though, i guess.

of course you don't have to take care of a pet like you do a spouse, but it's another person you are responsible to. you make that choice to make certain sacrafices, etc. for that person.

ok ok it was a weird analogy ;):

[stonemonkey]

See, it's guys like that who make it hard for the rest of us :googly:

sorry, I didn't realise speaking my mind 'made it hard' for you. I'll be sure to lie next time just so it's easier for you to pick up.

[LaFille]

Yeah, but I don't put much faith in conventional wisdom. You just need to find the right woman. One who won't put you on the straight and narrow, who basically lets you do whatever you want.

HA. HA. HA.

there's a difference between being and understanding partner and one who 'lets you do whatever you want.'

good freaking luck finding that!

[wordsmith]

Yeah, but I don't put much faith in conventional wisdom. You just need to find the right woman. One who won't put you on the straight and narrow, who basically lets you do whatever you want.

You want it both ways, though. Doesn't work.

You can't do "whatever you want," and be in a relationship. Relationships are compromise, for both parties. Nobody you have ANY kind of a healthy relationship will "let you" do "whatever you want." That's a pipe dream.

[stonemonkey]

Uh, just to note...this is NOT the only "single lifestyle." There isn't any one "single lifestyle." Different people live different ways. I'm single, that's not and has never been my lifestyle.

I know, but I just don't like the way people are implying that anyone who complains about marriage cutting in on their freedom is talking shit. It does depend on your lifestyle prior to getting married. If you're already acting like a married couple anyway, then sure, getting married isn't going to have any negative impact. But not everyone's like that.

[CTGirl]

Just an aside, isn't there also thinking that a woman marrying a man saves his life. as in puts him on the straight and narrow?

Yeah, I've heard this a lot, and I've heard lots of guys say how thankful they are that their SO did that for them actually.

I think that's the whole point of being in a serious relationship, not that the other "straightens you out" but "compliments" or "completes" you. If they arent contributing something significant to your life, then what's the point?

[stonemonkey]

HA. HA. HA.

there's a difference between being and understanding partner and one who 'lets you do whatever you want.'

good freaking luck finding that!

Right, so how is that not losing freedom?

[LaFille]

Yeah, I've heard this a lot, and I've heard lots of guys say how thankful they are that their SO did that for them actually.

I think that's the whole point of being in a serious relationship, not that the other "straightens you out" but "compliments" or "completes" you. If they arent contributing something significant to your life, then what's the point?

yeah, i think if you find someone you love, you want to be become the best person you can be... not a DIFFERENT PERSON, mind you, just the best version of yourself...

[stonemonkey]

You want it both ways, though. Doesn't work.

You can't do "whatever you want," and be in a relationship. Relationships are compromise, for both parties. Nobody you have ANY kind of a healthy relationship will "let you" do "whatever you want." That's a pipe dream.

Yes, I realise that. You can't have it both ways. You can only have it one way or the other. And therein lies the reluctance to get married. It's the uncertainty that the 'new way' will be better or worse than the 'old way'.

[LaFille]

Right, so how is that not losing freedom?

um, it is. if you still want to party and do whatever the hell you want, maybe you aren't ready to take that next step in the relationship.

if i'm dating a guy, i would think it was weird if he said 'yeah, go sleep with other people, do drugs, jump out of airplanes, move across the country, have fun! do what you want!'

[CTGirl]

Yes, I realise that. You can't have it both ways. You can only have it one way or the other. And therein lies the reluctance to get married. It's the uncertainty that the 'new way' will be better or worse than the 'old way'.

Well that's exactly how you choose you you marry. If the way things are with one girl are worse than they were on your own -> you dont marry her, while with another, things with her will be better than they were on your own -> you marry that one.

[stonemonkey]

um, it is. if you still want to party and do whatever the hell you want, maybe you aren't ready to take that next step in the relationship.


I know, I never said I was.

[WorkInProgress]

Well that's exactly how you choose you you marry. If the way things are with one girl are worse than they were on your own -> you dont marry her, while with another, things with her will be better than they were on your own -> you marry that one.

I don't know why, but this seemed oh so funny to me. I think I'm punchy and need to go home.

[stonemonkey]

Well that's exactly how you choose you you marry. If the way things are with one girl are worse than they were on your own -> you dont marry her, while with another, things with her will be better than they were on your own -> you marry that one.

Sounds easy enough.

[cache]

sorry, I didn't realise speaking my mind 'made it hard' for you. I'll be sure to lie next time just so it's easier for you to pick up.

You missed that reference....read back a few pages....thanks for the flame, though

[Winter Storm]

Yes, I realise that. You can't have it both ways. You can only have it one way or the other. And therein lies the reluctance to get married. It's the uncertainty that the 'new way' will be better or worse than the 'old way'.

Yeah, that was pretty much my point; that you generally can't continue to live your same single life after you get married (the single life varying individually of course).

[and1grad]

This isn't about growing up. This is about how I feel that a single person with no kids will generally have less responsibility and hence more freedom than a married person with kids.

Even if that married person with child still got to enjoy all the same luxuries they did as a single person, there is still some loss of freedom that comes with marriage and enhanced responsibilites, namely putting a spouse and child's needs before your own.

I won't even kid myself into believing that if I marry and have kids, I will have the same freedom that I do now as a single, childless person. I will lose some of it to marital sacrifice and compromise.
I think we just see it differently. To me, if you're partying and getting drunk all the time and acting like some frat boy, you're not a grown-up.

[stonemonkey]

Yeah, that was pretty much my point; that you generally can't continue to live your same single life after you get married (the single life varying individually of course).

That is my point too. And if your single life happens to be very similar to your married life, then there is no lost freedom. The argument against that is that you can just carry on doing what you were always doing, that spouses aren't all high maintenance control freaks. The counterargument against THAT is that there are still some things you can't just carry on doing, and other things you have to start doing, no matter how open-minded and liberal your spouse is.

[wordsmith]

Yeah, that was pretty much my point; that you generally can't continue to live your same single life after you get married (the single life varying individually of course).

Of coure it's not the same. You marry when it enriches your life to do so. If it doesn't, you stay happily single.

[Wolfpack21]

I think in the end it's just about compromise. You don't go through life without ever having to compromise and you can't have your cake and eat it too. You have to have a balance and that goes with marriage, kids, family, whatever else. Some guys/girls are already responsible, mature, and can settle into a long relationship right out the box. Others need someone to snap them in line. For example, I don't do all the partying, drinking, random hook ups, etc that most people my age do. So that part isn't a big deal for me and never will be.

In my opinion, a good wife still supports what her husband wants to do as long as he's still keeping his priorities straight. A good husband will do the same for his wife. Of course if a parent has hobbies they should include their kids at least some of the time. I just can't stand the women who try and run the whole house and tell the husband what to do. My mother has been like that since day one and I can't stand it. Though some men relinquish total control over to their wives, I could never do that.

As a side note, the only fear I can really think of with marriage is finances. My mother was horrible with money and so is my sister. I don't think I could do the joint checking/savings/investments, I'd rather keep things seperate. After working one year across the hall from an attorney who worked on divorce cases/pre nups, there will surely be a pre nup with my marriage.

[Winter Storm]

I think we just see it differently. To me, if you're partying and getting drunk all the time and acting like some frat boy, you're not a grown-up.

Yes, one of many things we see differently. I work hard, so I can play hard. If I go out every weekend, partying hard and going dancing with my friends, long as my lil butt is at work Monday morning and making sure all my responsibilities are taken care of and self sufficiently, then hells yeah, I'm just as much of a grown-up adult.

[stonemonkey]

I think we just see it differently. To me, if you're partying and getting drunk all the time and acting like some frat boy, you're not a grown-up.

Look, I never said I was grown up, that's why I'm not even close to thinking about marriage. And I don't see why I should cop shit for that. I'm not harming anyone.

[and1grad]

Look, I never said I was grown up, that's why I'm not even close to thinking about marriage. And I don't see why I should cop shit for that. I'm not harming anyone.
I wasnt referring to you. I was talking about winter's example.

[Bman120]

The "losing freedom" thing is interesting to me. The only "freedom" that I see marriage is automatically (in, uh, most cases) affecting is the freedom to date/sleep with other women. But I'm not a person who can really conceive of telling a spouse, "Um, you can and can't do this," all the time, in regard to standard activities. I'm wondering what all these freedoms are that are assumed to be given up?


Looks like a lot of other people gave pretty much the same answers I have to your question Words. Honestly, I don't go out that much or travel that much but the idea that those things could become limited by marriage just nags at me. It's more of a possibilities thing than real facts but they still bug me.

[littledancerus]

Also, you could loose the freedom to not clean the bathroom if you don't feel like it... or being able to not cook when you don't want to... you loose alone time... if you don't have 2 tvs, the ability to watch what you want when you want to... there's lots of little things that would be affected. The ability to do whatever you want with your money. Being able to have friends over at all hours... keeping the heat/air where you want it etc.

[wordsmith]

You lose those things if you have a roommate, too, or a live-in s.o. Those factors are nothing specific to marriage, those are just puzzle pieces of compromising with other people.

[Bman120]

You lose those things if you have a roommate, too, or a live-in s.o. Those factors are nothing specific to marriage, those are just puzzle pieces of compromising with other people.


True, but with a live in roomate/S.O. it doesnt have as permanent a ring to it as marriage. If you feel too restrained with a roomate then you can always find another.

As for a living in S.O. I have to agree that's about the same as marriage and I would only consider doing that if I thought the girl was "the one" and wanted to see how things would go. So for me those two are pretty close.

I know its part of compromising and if the time does come where I decide I want to marry, i'll make those compromises, its just that the thought of it makes me a bit uneasy.