QLC Men and Marriage

[Winter Storm]

So I'm trying to get an idea of what men here think of marriage.

I often see woman talking about their future marriage hopes and anticipating engagement and the like, but I rarely see or hear of men getting as excited about it or that it is something they are really looking forward to or really want.
So shed some light for me:

For the men on this board:
1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?
2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?
3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?
4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?
5) What do you think will be the worst things?
6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?

And for the guys that know they definitely don't want to get married, could you explain why? And be honest. I really want to know what men think on this.

[WorkInProgress]

I'd like to know too. And not in a confrontational way.

[wordsmith]

When we're done, can we post the same thread for women?

[Winter Storm]

When we're done, can we post the same thread for women?

Yeah, if we ever get responses from men on this one. :googly:

[Umbra]

So I'm trying to get an idea of what men here think of marriage.

I often see woman talking about their future marriage hopes and anticipating engagement and the like, but I rarely see or hear of men getting as excited about it or that it is something they are really looking forward to or really want.
So shed some light for me:

For the men on this board:
1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?
2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?
3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?
4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?
5) What do you think will be the worst things?
6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?

And for the guys that know they definitely don't want to get married, could you explain why? And be honest. I really want to know what men think on this.


1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Not applicable.
5. Not applicable.
6. Not applicable.

As to why, I just don't want to. That's it. I don't want kids, either. I also don't want a house; I just want an apartment(a decent one). As for real estate, I've decided I'll just invest in REITS(real estate stock). HCP seems like a good pick.

[cache]

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?

Yes

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?

Yes, but at the same time, I wouldn't feel incomplete if I never married.
3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?

No, not even once. The only thing that matters is who is standing next to me.

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?

Shared commitment, children, growing old together(sorry about the cheesy Wedding Singer line there), and the little things - you know "after 20 years together she still makes sure I get a chocolate cake on my birthday"...stuff like that

5) What do you think will be the worst things?

Compatability is relative - there are bound to be big issues that come up later in life, am I going to want or have to sacrafice an important personal quality or belief in the name of compromise?

6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?

See #2

[Winter Storm]

1) The only thing that matters is who is standing next to me.


:) That is so sweet.

[dddork]

For the men on this board:
1) Do you see yourself getting married one day? --> Ofcourse, yes!

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect? --> yup.. i wonder what she is like at times..

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)? -> NO

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage? --> best friend for life..

5) What do you think will be the worst things? --> What if you realize that you are not compatible or if love falls aparrt.. what do you do?? I don't believe in divorce!


6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too? --> I am getting married by 27.. 28 at the latest.. I want to spend the best days of my life with my WIFE.. It just makes sense because I am going to be spending rest of my life with her.. you know!


One thing I would like to add is that I come from a strict Indian family where "arranged marriages" are big.. on the positive side, "atleast you don't have to look for love"..

[CTGirl]

:) That is so sweet.

Agreed, I actually said "aww" out loud when I read that, lol.

[psu1ski17]

For the men on this board:
1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?
2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?
3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?
4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?
5) What do you think will be the worst things?
6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?


1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No, I'll take care of those details when it comes
4. Having someone to share my life with. Getting to know someone at the deepest levels and really understanding their differing perspectives. The little "peccadillos" (see Good Will Hunting)
5. I won't be able to do everything my way all the time. The inevitable fights and disagreements.
6. I definitely want it.

Call me weird but, I really love teamwork. Its the main reason i play and organize alot of sports (I'm currently on 3 fall rec teams). Marriage and parenting to me is the ultimate exercise of teamwork. (Note: this isn't the reason I want to get married, I just find it an interesting addition to the post)

[analogman]

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?
Yup. Married.

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?
Yes (before I was married). Yes still.

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?
Thought about my groomsmen would be, that's it.

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?
Deep connection with each other, growing closer together, sharing all the good things in life.

5) What do you think will be the worst things?
Communicating can be difficult at times (I don't talk a lot) and growing closer together involves rubbing some rough spots off.

6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?
Always knew I wanted to be married.

[meatwad]

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?
Yes

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?
I don't really think about it much if that's what you mean.

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?
Nope. As long as it's fun, that's good enough for me. The future wife can have the wedding exactly the way she wants down to the letter (as long as her parents are paying for most of it :D )

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?
Not really sure. I've never been married. I guess that if/when I do find someone I want to marry, it'll be because that person is someone I'll want around me forever.

5) What do you think will be the worst things?
All the stupid bullshit that comes along with a marriage. But you have to take the good with the bad. If you find the right person, problems and arguments can be overcome.

6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?
I definitely want someone that I care about to spend the rest of my life with and raise a family with, but I decided a long time ago that I'm not going to make myself miserable by obsessing about finding someone.

[spokes]

for what it is worth:

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day? Maybe, I'd be just as happy living with someone
2) Are you looking forward to the prospect? i can't say that i am looking forward to it, nor can I say I am dreading it - given that it is not on my radar at the moment I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.
3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)? no, not at all - however I can say that ti won't be tht expensive as I doubt that I could mentally justify spending $20,000 on one day and not have anything material come out of it.
4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage? Friendship, companionship, partership and possibly having a spouse like allie (who is willing to make things up when she is feeling bad by making a trip to VS and getting some of her hubby's favourite refreshments...... :huge: )
5) What do you think will be the worst things? this will most likely come out as selfish, but I have gotten very used to doing what i want when i want, i'll have to adjust this to take in her plans.
6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too? If it does not happen then it is what it is.

[SmilesSoSweet]

6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too? --> I am getting married by 27.. 28 at the latest.. I want to spend the best days of my life with my WIFE.. It just makes sense because I am going to be spending rest of my life with her.. you know!

Just curious as to wonder why you have an exact age set? I mean I did. I thought I was going to be married by the time I was 25. I'm almost 28 now and I'm still single. I think a lot of us (guys and girls) have set age where we think we'll get married, but nowadays we also need a back up plan if that doesn't happen since the age at which you get married isn't a guaranteed thing.

[Wolfpack21]

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?
--Yes of course.

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?
--Yes I am, but at the same time I am in no rush to marry. There's a lot of ground to cover until that day comes.

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?
--No

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?
--Having a best friend for life, raising a family, always having someone to do things with, and having someone who will be supportive of me and vice versa.

5) What do you think will be the worst things?
--No idea. I could say fights or arguments, but that's a part of life.

6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?
--It's something I definitely want someday. I doubt I will marry before I am 30 though.

[wordsmith]

For the men on this board:
1) Do you see yourself getting married one day? --> Ofcourse, yes!

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect? --> yup.. i wonder what she is like at times..

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)? -> NO

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage? --> best friend for life..

5) What do you think will be the worst things? --> What if you realize that you are not compatible or if love falls aparrt.. what do you do?? I don't believe in divorce!


6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too? --> I am getting married by 27.. 28 at the latest.. I want to spend the best days of my life with my WIFE.. It just makes sense because I am going to be spending rest of my life with her.. you know!


One thing I would like to add is that I come from a strict Indian family where "arranged marriages" are big.. on the positive side, "atleast you don't have to look for love"..

So you are or aren't having an arranged marriage?

[ScottyTheBody]

So I'm trying to get an idea of what men here think of marriage.

I often see woman talking about their future marriage hopes and anticipating engagement and the like, but I rarely see or hear of men getting as excited about it or that it is something they are really looking forward to or really want.
So shed some light for me:

For the men on this board:
1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?
2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?
3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?
4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?
5) What do you think will be the worst things?
6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?

And for the guys that know they definitely don't want to get married, could you explain why? And be honest. I really want to know what men think on this.

1) Well I really like the idea of marriage, and I hope that one day I find someone that I could share the rest of my life with and have kids with.

2) I figure I should look forward to something that is for sure going to happen. It only brings pain when you look forward to something that isn't assured. I'll just live one day at a time (if it happens, it happens but I can't rule out the possibility of it not happening)

3) No, see part 2. However, I used to envision kids (like in dreams very vividly), minivans, going to kids sports games, family dinners, waking up to a smile on my so's face, etc. But never the actually wedding day.

4) See part 3

5) Lack of freedom.

6) I definitely want to be married someday but I don't assume that it will happen anymore. If it doesn't happen, well that's just my destiny I guess and I'll have to live with it.

[vivo]

male: no

female: ever since I can remember. I remember talking about it with Mom in kindergarten. Me and my friends would talk about it all the time. I decided I wanted to marry a handsome prince. I'd live in a castle and be the luckiest girl in the world. of course as I got older my expectations got brought back down to earth a little bit.

[vivo]

So you are or aren't having an arranged marriage?
ah and I vould also like a faxed sheit of your bio-data so I can find a suitable girl for you. :huge: :huge: :huge:

[cheshrcarol]

I love that so many of the guys have said that one of the best things would be having a best friend for life.

[pisces2473]

male: no

female: ever since I can remember. I remember talking about it with Mom in kindergarten. Me and my friends would talk about it all the time. I decided I wanted to marry a handsome prince. I'd live in a castle and be the luckiest girl in the world. of course as I got older my expectations got brought back down to earth a little bit.
Uhhh yeah, I dont think so.

Carol, I know! That's what Chris always says, "You're my best friend and we get to be together every day."

[labrat2111]

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?
2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?
3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?
4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?
5) What do you think will be the worst things?
6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?


This is pretty interesting this came up as I was just at my friend's wedding this Saturday so here goes:

1). Yes and I have a g/f of 11 months who I can see as my wife
2). I'm looking forward to the prospect partially because it means we'll be together and not seperated by 1.75 hours like now.
3). I don't envision my wedding day mostly because (and embarassingly) I don't even know who I have around me that is close enough to me to serve as groomsmen. I feel like don't have any close friends that could serve in that role. I could imagine other details of the wedding (because I'm a planner/organizer by nature) but I think the costs would have my head spinning.
4). The best points are the companionship and having someone to support you in good and bad times and someone to do things with and hang out.
5). Worst thing? well maybe worries or just things I would give up to be married -- obviously no sex with other woman and of course worries about how we'll change in 5 or 10 or 20 years and of course not being about to do exactly what I want
6). I definitely want to get married someday but it's not an absolute requirement. I've been in one bad, mismatched long-term relationship so never again.

[CTGirl]

male: no

female: ever since I can remember. I remember talking about it with Mom in kindergarten. Me and my friends would talk about it all the time. I decided I wanted to marry a handsome prince. I'd live in a castle and be the luckiest girl in the world. of course as I got older my expectations got brought back down to earth a little bit.

Not all girls think like that :googly:

[vivo]

Not all girls think like that :googly:

well of course not.

[old_school_soul]

So I'm trying to get an idea of what men here think of marriage.

I often see woman talking about their future marriage hopes and anticipating engagement and the like, but I rarely see or hear of men getting as excited about it or that it is something they are really looking forward to or really want.
So shed some light for me:

For the men on this board:
1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?


If the right person comes along, sure. I don't sit around and day dream about it. Having a fulfulling relationship is more important to me than being married.


2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?

Like I said, I don't day dream about it. I don't think all of lifes problems will be solved because I have a ring on my finger. I don't need a wife to feel complete. God made me a whole person.

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?

No. But I've thought about what song I'd like to play. "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face", followed by "Push It".

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?

Stable family to raise children.. Hopefully marrying someone with a big family to compensate for my tiny family.. Having close bonds to family is important. The more, the merrier.

5) What do you think will be the worst things?

You can't plan the worse things. They just happen. Death, cheating, financials, farting in bed.


6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?

Yes. People shouldn't use marriage as the definition of living a happy life.

[dddork]

Just curious as to wonder why you have an exact age set? I mean I did. I thought I was going to be married by the time I was 25. I'm almost 28 now and I'm still single. I think a lot of us (guys and girls) have set age where we think we'll get married, but nowadays we also need a back up plan if that doesn't happen since the age at which you get married isn't a guaranteed thing.


I am 23 right now.. Assuming that I get into a business school by time I am 25.. I will be out at 27 and I think I will be settled in my life. I will be able to support family and kids.. If my wife doesn't want to work, she doesn't have to and thatswhy I want to get my MBA done before getting married..

why 27.. I want to marry young because you still are active.. You still are very romantic, adventurous.. and are not bored with your life..

[dddork]

So you are or aren't having an arranged marriage?

you want an honest answer?!?!? --> My mom has been dreaming about finding me a wife since I was 15.. I have grown up hearing stuff like, " I am going to find you a girl who is .. ... ..", "We will do this and that and that" .

Well, I am the oldest son in my family.. so there are a lot of expectations from me.. One of my cuz did get married to a white girl and he was outcasted from the family.. Very sad, but true.. It took him couple of years to win the family back..

I don't know if I am strong enough to take away my mom's wishes from her.. At the same time if I found someone who I believe I can't live without, I am sure my mom would understand..

I know, a very lame answer.. but its a very cultural thing and every Indian male in America goes through the same dilemna I am/will going through..

[and1grad]

why 27.. I want to marry young because you still are active.. You still are very romantic, adventurous.. and are not bored with your life..
Sounds kinda pessimistic. Do you expect your marriage to be a drag after a few years?

[SmilesSoSweet]

I am 23 right now.. Assuming that I get into a business school by time I am 25.. I will be out at 27 and I think I will be settled in my life. I will be able to support family and kids.. If my wife doesn't want to work, she doesn't have to and thatswhy I want to get my MBA done before getting married..

why 27.. I want to marry young because you still are active.. You still are very romantic, adventurous.. and are not bored with your life..

Well I can see how you planned it, but what if it doesn't plan out to be what you wanted it? Then what?

I'm all settled in my life right now and I have been out of school for some time now, but I still can't guarantee myself getting married by a set age.

[wordsmith]

I like the "You're my best friend and I always wanna be with you thing," too, but, really...you can have that without marriage, right? I'm not anti-marriage, but it is a valid point.

[and1grad]

One of my cuz did get married to a white girl and he was outcasted from the family.. Very sad, but true.. It took him couple of years to win the family back..
Wow. Its good that he went about winning the fam back cuz I'm pretty sure had that been me, I woulda told the fam to kiss off. So is the family now more openminded or whats the deal with that? I'm curious.

[cheshrcarol]

Dude, it's your life not your mom's. EVERY mother in America has expectations for who their child will marry. I can understand wanting someone who will fit in well with your family, but you shouldn't make a lifelong commitment to someone just because your mom likes her.

My parents came from two different religious/cultural backgrounds and my dad was even scared to tell his mother they'd gotten engaged. Back then, you did NOT tell your Jewish mother you were marrying an Irish Catholic girl. But he did it anyways. And even my grandmother admits that only my mom could have put up with my dad all these years.

[dddork]

Sounds kinda pessimistic. Do you expect your marriage to be a drag after a few years?

idk.. its not pessimistic.. I guess you see from the surroundings.. I dont remember my parents taking a vacation after I was born.. I don't remember anyone in my family doing anything for their significant other after the kids were there.. You just have so much to deal with in your everyday life.. There is no time for romance left.. I don't consider my marriage to be a drag but I do certainly think that the excitement that you have at 27 is missing at age of 33..

[CTGirl]

you want an honest answer?!?!? --> My mom has been dreaming about finding me a wife since I was 15.. I have grown up hearing stuff like, " I am going to find you a girl who is .. ... ..", "We will do this and that and that" .

Well, I am the oldest son in my family.. so there are a lot of expectations from me.. One of my cuz did get married to a white girl and he was outcasted from the family.. Very sad, but true.. It took him couple of years to win the family back..

I don't know if I am strong enough to take away my mom's wishes from her.. At the same time if I found someone who I believe I can't live without, I am sure my mom would understand..

I know, a very lame answer.. but its a very cultural thing and every Indian male in America goes through the same dilemna I am/will going through..

I had a lot of Indian friends in college, so I've heard stories very similar to yours.

I had one friend (a girl) who actually said to me "I hope my mom dies before she finds me a husband"

At the same time, I had another friend (a guy) who had a girl back in India, who had always just been "assumed" to be his future wife - they'd grown up together, family friends, etc, and he was excited about it, and had total commitment to the traditional ways.

It can be rough dealing with traditional values like that, good luck!

[vivo]

you want an honest answer?!?!? --> My mom has been dreaming about finding me a wife since I was 15.. I have grown up hearing stuff like, " I am going to find you a girl who is .. ... ..", "We will do this and that and that" .

Well, I am the oldest son in my family.. so there are a lot of expectations from me.. One of my cuz did get married to a white girl and he was outcasted from the family.. Very sad, but true.. It took him couple of years to win the family back..

I don't know if I am strong enough to take away my mom's wishes from her.. At the same time if I found someone who I believe I can't live without, I am sure my mom would understand..

I know, a very lame answer.. but its a very cultural thing and every Indian male in America goes through the same dilemna I am/will going through..


outcasted from the family, whoa!

[wordsmith]

you want an honest answer?!?!? --> My mom has been dreaming about finding me a wife since I was 15.. I have grown up hearing stuff like, " I am going to find you a girl who is .. ... ..", "We will do this and that and that" .

Well, I am the oldest son in my family.. so there are a lot of expectations from me.. One of my cuz did get married to a white girl and he was outcasted from the family.. Very sad, but true.. It took him couple of years to win the family back..

I don't know if I am strong enough to take away my mom's wishes from her.. At the same time if I found someone who I believe I can't live without, I am sure my mom would understand..

I know, a very lame answer.. but its a very cultural thing and every Indian male in America goes through the same dilemna I am/will going through..

This is a tangent-inducing question, and I don't wanna threadjack, so answer in PM if you wanna answer...but if you're probably gonna have an arranged marriage anyway, what's with the clubbing and picking up women and trying to find as many ways to met them as possibe? Is there any point, in the end? I'm just curious...

[cache]

I don't consider my marriage to be a drag but I do certainly think that the excitement that you have at 27 is missing at age of 33..

Wow, you think there is that much of a difference between 27 and 33?!?!?!?

[dddork]

Wow. Its good that he went about winning the fam back cuz I'm pretty sure had that been me, I woulda told the fam to kiss off. So is the family now more openminded or whats the deal with that? I'm curious.

again.. a very cultural thing.. I am an Indian male.. Its a total different mindset.. I have never even raised my voice in front of my mom and dad.. Its different!!! For us family means a LOT!!..

you know in our culture.. we kids, never move out of the house.. We always stay with the parents..For example, the bride comes and stays with the groom's family.. Its all about living together.. loving each other.. very family oriented..

I being raised in America have a different perspective but that doesn't change perspective of my mom and dad who were born and raised in India..

[CTGirl]

idk.. its not pessimistic.. I guess you see from the surroundings.. I dont remember my parents taking a vacation after I was born.. I don't remember anyone in my family doing anything for their significant other after the kids were there.. You just have so much to deal with in your everyday life.. There is no time for romance left.. I don't consider my marriage to be a drag but I do certainly think that the excitement that you have at 27 is missing at age of 33..

That is definitely not true of any married couples I know.

My parents have been married nearly 30 years, and are, at this very moment, on a mini vacation in Maine together, and are always doing romantic things for one another.

[and1grad]

idk.. its not pessimistic.. I guess you see from the surroundings.. I dont remember my parents taking a vacation after I was born.. I don't remember anyone in my family doing anything for their significant other after the kids were there.. You just have so much to deal with in your everyday life.. There is no time for romance left.. I don't consider my marriage to be a drag but I do certainly think that the excitement that you have at 27 is missing at age of 33..
Oh ok. To me, that sucks. I'd never allow that to happen in my life...marriage or no, kids or no. I NEED excitement. I need to liven things up once in a while...but I can see how thats not a priority to some people.

[dddork]

I had one friend (a girl) who actually said to me "I hope my mom dies before she finds me a husband"

!

I guess I can never do that.. My mom is the most precious thing in my life though I don't agree with her on a LOT of things.. but still she is the one who gave me birth.. who raised me.. paid for everything.. made me a MAN. and a good one that too!..

its like you are crushed between two cultures.. between your beliefs and belief of your parents..

[wordsmith]

I do certainly think that the excitement that you have at 27 is missing at age of 33..

Seriously? I can't wrap my head around that line of thought.

[Illuminous]

again.. a very cultural thing.. I am an Indian male.. Its a total different mindset.. I have never even raised my voice in front of my mom and dad.. Its different!!! For us family means a LOT!!..

you know in our culture.. we kids, never move out of the house.. We always stay with the parents..For example, the bride comes and stays with the groom's family.. Its all about living together.. loving each other.. very family oriented..

I being raised in America have a different perspective but that doesn't change perspective of my mom and dad who were born and raised in India..

I had a lot of Indian friends in college, so I understand. A lot of my friends were going to go home to India and be in arranged marriages, but they came here for school and would party and have fun with the girls. I dated a guy for a bit, full well knowing that later he would go home to his future wife or whatever.

It sounds like it's not like oyu're living your mom's life, but if you had the choice, no consequences, woud you still do an arranged marriage?

[and1grad]

again.. a very cultural thing.. I am an Indian male.. Its a total different mindset.. I have never even raised my voice in front of my mom and dad.. Its different!!! For us family means a LOT!!..

you know in our culture.. we kids, never move out of the house.. We always stay with the parents..For example, the bride comes and stays with the groom's family.. Its all about living together.. loving each other.. very family oriented..

I being raised in America have a different perspective but that doesn't change perspective of my mom and dad who were born and raised in India..
I know what its like to have parents raised in another country, mine being African. I guess the difference is that my parents have recognized that things are just different here and now. I dont mean to play down the importance of the old world culture or family influence but, just for saying's sake, remember that its YOU who's got to live your life. Sometimes the old way is outdated.

[dddork]

Dude, it's your life not your mom's. EVERY mother in America has expectations for who their child will marry. I can understand wanting someone who will fit in well with your family, but you shouldn't make a lifelong commitment to someone just because your mom likes her.

My parents came from two different religious/cultural backgrounds and my dad was even scared to tell his mother they'd gotten engaged. Back then, you did NOT tell your Jewish mother you were marrying an Irish Catholic girl. But he did it anyways. And even my grandmother admits that only my mom could have put up with my dad all these years.

lol.. my grandma says the same thing.. my dad's crazy. in a good way..

i know.. iknow and thatswhy i didn't rule the possiblilty of finding myself my dream girl..

[dddork]

Seriously? I can't wrap my head around that line of thought.

lol.. am I gonna get beaten up for this.. after using "target"..

[dddork]

Lets not hijack this thread.. I will make a thread on Arranged marriage..

[and1grad]

I dont think you have to worry about hijacking this thread. There arent that many men on the board anyway. :neutral: The more action it gets, the better.

[wordsmith]

Hah, you just figure nobody'll notice that you didn't answer the questions on the thread! :rolleyes:

[SmilesSoSweet]

I know what its like to have parents raised in another country, mine being African. I guess the difference is that my parents have recognized that things are just different here and now. I dont mean to play down the importance of the old world culture or family influence but, just for saying's sake, remember that its YOU who's got to live your life. Sometimes the old way is outdated.

Me too. My family is from The Philippines but we have lived in the states since I was a baby. My parents have also recognized the differences in being raised in their home country versus being raised in the states.

Now my parents just have the whole, "as long as your happy, we're happy for you" mentality.

[WorkInProgress]

Hah, you just figure nobody'll notice that you didn't answer the questions on the thread! :rolleyes:
Oh it was noticed.

[cheshrcarol]

Its different!!! For us family means a LOT!!.. You know, I hate when people who are 1st or 2nd generation say that family is so important to their culture, kind of implying that it's somehow less important to the rest of us. No, I don't live with my parents, but in my family that's how we stay close. I see my parents all the time and talk to my mother practically every other day. If I lived with them there'd be a lot more tension. And while I pick out boyfriends based on whether I like them, it is sometimes in the back of my head that I have not just one, but two cultures that will be evaluating whoever I end up with.

[dddork]

I had a lot of Indian friends in college, so I understand. A lot of my friends were going to go home to India and be in arranged marriages, but they came here for school and would party and have fun with the girls. I dated a guy for a bit, full well knowing that later he would go home to his future wife or whatever.

It sounds like it's not like oyu're living your mom's life, but if you had the choice, no consequences, woud you still do an arranged marriage?

and i make it very clear in the begining too. .i hate breaking hearts.. but have done it before..

No, I won't do an arranged marriage.. NEVER..

[and1grad]

Hah, you just figure nobody'll notice that you didn't answer the questions on the thread! :rolleyes:
Shhh!!! ;)

There's a bunch of responses anyway.

[dddork]

I. Sometimes the old way is outdated.

what do you tell them.. when they say.. "oh it worked for me" and its working for a billion people in India..??!!? you know.. and they start crying. saying.. this is not how things would have been if we were in India.. blah blah blah.. kids these days don't respect elders.. blah blah

[wordsmith]

Shhh!!! ;)

There's a bunch of responses anyway.

You're so sneaky!

[dddork]

You know, I hate when people who are 1st or 2nd generation say that family is so important to their culture, kind of implying that it's somehow less important to the rest of us. .

didn't mean to imply anything..

[SmilesSoSweet]

what do you tell them.. when they say.. "oh it worked for me" and its working for a billion people in India..??!!? you know.. and they start crying. saying.. this is not how things would have been if we were in India.. blah blah blah.. kids these days don't respect elders.. blah blah

And that's basically where I told my parents that if they wanted me to marry someone of the same race and lived the way they did when they were living in The Philippines, then WHY THE HELL ARE WE LIVING IN THE STATES?

They've lightened up a whole lot since then. :rolleyes:

[WorkInProgress]

what do you tell them.. when they say.. "oh it worked for me" and its working for a billion people in India..??!!? you know.. and they start crying. saying.. this is not how things would have been if we were in India.. blah blah blah.. kids these days don't respect elders.. blah blah

Just because it worked for them doesn't mean that it works for everyone.

There's a lot that worked for various family members that won't work for me. And that has nothing to do with respect.

[wordsmith]

My parents got married when my mom was 20, and she didn't get an education beyond high school. Both routes I wouldn't and didn't take (though i could have, still common in my area). The "old way of doing things" isn't always to be emulated, in my book.

[cheshrcarol]

And that's basically where I told my parents that if they wanted me to marry someone of the same race and lived the way they did when they were living in The Philippines, then WHY THE HELL ARE WE LIVING IN THE STATES?

They've lightened up a whole lot since then. :rolleyes:I love that you said that to them!

Honestly, I hate the attitude of people that come here for the American standard of living and the American jobs, but dislike everything else about the country. If things were so great in people's homelands, then why come here?

[and1grad]

And that's basically where I told my parents that if they wanted me to marry someone of the same race and lived the way they did when they were living in The Philippines, then WHY THE HELL ARE WE LIVING IN THE STATES?

They've lightened up a whole lot since then. :rolleyes:
Ditto that...same result too. Oh, and please believe there were a lot of "unfriendly" moments before the lightening up.

[vivo]

K this threads officially over

apparently things are getting more liberal in India I guess mainly among urbanites or middle class+ urbanites or something. to the point where sometimes people here have stricter rules than their indian peers.

[dddork]

From my perspective.. both of my parents didn't finish their high school.. couldn't speak english.. were very poor.. but dedicated their life to their kids.. gave them proper education.. everything the kids wanted/needed.. so its a little different..

[dddork]

K this threads officially over

apparently things are getting more liberal in India I guess mainly among urbanites or middle class+ urbanites or something. to the point where sometimes people here have stricter rules than their indian peers.

I so agree.. it seems like we indian in America hold on to the roots more than Indians in India

[SmilesSoSweet]

From my perspective.. both of my parents didn't finish their high school.. couldn't speak english.. were very poor.. but dedicated their life to their kids.. gave them proper education.. everything the kids wanted/needed.. so its a little different..

My parents put us kids first (they were able to get college degrees though) and they learned English and stuff, too. They still wanted to make a better life for us kids in the States, but that doesn't mean I have to live my life to make them happy.

[SmilesSoSweet]

Ditto that...same result too. Oh, and please believe there were a lot of "unfriendly" moments before the lightening up.

Yeah, my sister "broke-in" my parents first since she's the eldest. If my grandfather were still around he'd wouldn't approve of marrying outside of our race and not living like our parents did back in The Philippines, etc.

He'd probably have the toughest time right now, but he's not around anymore to say anything.

[dddork]

My parents put us kids first (they were able to get college degrees though) and they learned English and stuff, too. They still wanted to make a better life for us kids in the States, but that doesn't mean I have to live my life to make them happy.

If they sacrificed their happiness to make you happy.. Shouldn't you return the favor?

[LakeJay]

If they sacrificed their happiness to make you happy.. Shouldn't you return the favor?

I could see that logic but when their happiness revolves around your happiness, why would they want you to do something you didn't necessarily want to do?

[WorkInProgress]

If they sacrificed their happiness to make you happy.. Shouldn't you return the favor?
Would your parents really want you to be unhappy?

[wordsmith]

Ideally for parents, though...your happiness should be in seeing your child happy. Not in seeing your child do what you've planned for them. Whether it's an arranged marriage, the career path you've mapped out for them, following the aspirations you yourself didn't meet, etc.

But parents do those things all the time. They get happiness in seeing their children meet their expectations. Not in their children being happy with their lives as they see fit. I don't get that.

[dddork]

I could see that logic but when their happiness revolves around your happiness, why would they want you to do something you didn't necessarily want to do?


I remember watching this movie the other day.. where everyone in the guy's family went to Stanford.. and it was just expected of him to go to Stanford and get a law degree..

I think they worry too much about tradition.. than happiness.. they worry a lot more about society than their kids..

[Winter Storm]

Shhh!!! ;)

There's a bunch of responses anyway.

Boo!

I want to hear all responses, particularly from the MOST opinionated dudes on the board. We won't attack you. I won't let them. Come on!

[SmilesSoSweet]

If they sacrificed their happiness to make you happy.. Shouldn't you return the favor?

I am returning the favor by not being a bad person - i.e. getting arrested, going to jail, being a useless person in society, etc. I'm taking what I learned from them and what they sacrificed for me and using it in my own life so that I can live my life the way I want to.

My parents never want me to live my life to make them happy. That would be selfish on THEIR part.

[Winter Storm]

I am returning the favor by not being a bad person - i.e. getting arrested, going to jail, being a useless person in society, etc. I'm taking what I learned from them and what they sacrificed for me and using it in my own life so that I can live my life the way I want to.


Ha! I like that response.

[J-girl]

K this threads officially over

apparently things are getting more liberal in India I guess mainly among urbanites or middle class+ urbanites or something. to the point where sometimes people here have stricter rules than their indian peers.

Thank you. This guy is just speaking for himself. Yes my parents are strict as well and its a constant uphill battle with them but I do posses a backbone at the same time.

Smilessosweet- I have said the same thing to my parents- if life was so great backhome why the hell did you move here?

I dont mind people following customs and traditions but to blindly follow them without questioning is stupid. You may be pleasing your parents in the interim but in the long term you are blinding yourself and sacrificing your sanity or your ability to question what goes on around you. Yes my parenst made a lot of sacrifices as well. But come to think of it they made these sacrifices so that WE can get what they couldnt back home and that is the Freedom of Choice.

The problem is their definition of "happiness" is completely different from mine.

[flesh_gordon]

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day? Next July
2) Are you looking forward to the prospect? Of Course
3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)? Not a whole lot. I'm not really a planner/organized at all so I've left that to the Fiancee.
4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage? Hmm... Toughie as I don't think that much will be different from our current living conditions. Been with her 6 years, living together for 1. Um... Lots of Gifts? :D
5) What do you think will be the worst things? Expectations of getting a house in the near future when we're not close to affording one. But that's more from the parents than her. we've got an apartment which could suit us for the next few years, even if an unplanned kid was born.
6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too? Well it's coming, and I'm certainly happy about if.

[vivo]

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day? Next July
2) Are you looking forward to the prospect? Of Course
3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)? Not a whole lot. I'm not really a planner/organized at all so I've left that to the Fiancee.
4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage? Hmm... Toughie as I don't think that much will be different from our current living conditions. Been with her 6 years, living together for 1. Um... Lots of Gifts? :D
5) What do you think will be the worst things? Expectations of getting a house in the near future when we're not close to affording one. But that's more from the parents than her. we've got an apartment which could suit us for the next few years, even if an unplanned kid was born.
6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too? Well it's coming, and I'm certainly happy about if.


how dare you put us back on topic!! :mad: :huge:

[flesh_gordon]

yeah... I saw it had taken a left about a mile back or so... but I wanted my opinion heard.

Off-topic, I have a friend who is trying to tell his muslim parents that he has been seeing a girl from a different race, hasn't gone so well yet.

[vivo]

yeah... I saw it had taken a left about a mile back or so... but I wanted my opinion heard.

Off-topic, I have a friend who is trying to tell his muslim parents that he has been seeing a girl from a different race, hasn't gone so well yet.

so wait u bring us back on topic then yo derail us again :huge: to my knowledge, race doesn't matter at least as far as islam goes but religion does(a man can marry jews, christians, or muslims to my knowledge).

[Winter Storm]

yeah... I saw it had taken a left about a mile back or so... but I wanted my opinion heard.


I appreciate it, since I'm not at all interested in arranged Indian marriages and the conflict of whether or not to defy parents wishes. :rolleyes:

[wordsmith]

Hey, I suggested the taking it to PM. :rolleyes:

[flesh_gordon]

I think more of an emphasis is on a Bride for the wedding. Girls are innundated with Wedding ideas when they're kids. When they're younger they think of being princesses and all the glitz/glamour... Boys are thinking of how to get more air on their BMX bike :D

[wordsmith]

Honestly, too, in many, if not most, cultures, the bridal role is nearly always the more ritualized role in the ceremony than that of the groom. And that's not just American culture.

[wordsmith]

When they're younger they think of being princesses and all the glitz/glamour...

Probably just as many of us were raised on the romance of it, easily as much as the "I'm a princess, it's my day to wear an expensive dress and be the center of attention" thing. Girl's are definitely more susceptible to the pushing of the whole romance angle than boys, of course.

[stonemonkey]

First off, I'm wary of answering this, in case it starts a shitstorm, or people start to assume that I'm representative of the "average" guy. I don't think I'm typical, or normal, but whatever.

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?

Yes, in that it could happen. No, in that I can't actually visualise it, as in see who I'm with or where I am. I'm 23. I'd be surprised to find myself married before 33, and I don't plan 10 years in advance. Asking me about marriage is like asking an 8 year old kid what they want to do after they leave high school (or asking a 70 year old guy what song they want played at their funeral....ok, bad analogy...)

Yes, I realise that some people marry at my age, but they tend to be the devoutly religious types, which I'm not.

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?

I must be, if I've already decided to get married.

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?

No, the ceremony itself pales in importance compared to the bride.

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?

Not being alone all the time. I'm at least mature enough to know that it's not all plain sailing, you have to work at it, and it's not like the 'head over heels' infatuation that happens when you first meet someone.

5) What do you think will be the worst things?

Curtailed freedom. Realising that there are some things I'll never be able to do again. Ever.

There's also the fear of making the wrong choice.

6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?

If it doesn't come along, then I HAVE to be okay with it, don't I? I'm not going to declare it an unacceptable situation and get a mail order bride from Romania.

[wordsmith]

Yes, I realise that some people marry at my age, but they tend to be the devoutly religious types, which I'm not.

Or small town types. Or expecting a baby types. Most of the young marriages I've known are the latter two, or some combination thereof, versus the former.

[stonemonkey]

Yep, true.

[flesh_gordon]

Or small town types. Or expecting a baby types. Most of the young marriages I've known are the latter two, or some combination thereof, versus the former.

I'll be 24, and my brother was 22 I think when he got married. For us it was finding the right person. I think part of it is my family background, where our parents have a very loving relationship and they've instilled that in us.

[and1grad]

I'll be 24, and my brother was 22 I think when he got married. For us it was finding the right person. I think part of it is my family background, where our parents have a very loving relationship and they've instilled that in us.
What does that have to do with getting married at a young age as opposed to later on?

[wordsmith]

Well, now, by that token, my parents have an awesome committed, loving relationship, too (and were married at ages 20 and 25 themselves). And my brothers were married at 26, and 27, and I'm 29 and will probably not be married for some time, if at all, and my sister is 23 and nowhere near marriage herself.

I don't think that young marriages necessarily correlate to the relative happiness of the marriage you grew up with as your prime example. Should I have expected to be married young b/c my parents set a good example? Nah. There are many other variables that determine when people get married, and if they get married.

[flesh_gordon]

Holy christ :D

I didn't mean that that was the only reason... To say that for religious purposes or shotgun weddings is ridiculous. I'm merely pointing out that there's other reasons too.

I've found the right person, and I see there no reason to wait any longer.

[wordsmith]

I've found the right person, and I see there no reason to wait any longer.

I think that ideally, that's pretty much the way it SHOULD work.

However, we know that's not the case for all. Just looking to people I've known, in addition to the ones where the above logic truly applied (thumbs up), I've seen and actually heard the following:

-we're pregnant.
-our parents won't get off our case and we're sick of hearing about it.
-I HAVE to be married by the time I'm [fill in the blank age].
-If I don't get married now, I might not ever.
-it's expected.

All of which are poor reasons, in my eyes.

[Jedi of Zen]

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?

Definitely, yes, although I have to admit that I'm a tad bit more skeptical about the topic than I was when I was much younger. ie, For a long time, I always assumed that by 27 I would definitely be married, have kids, etc. Plus, when I look at the many negative patterns that relationships in our culture tend to adhere to, along with my own past experiences, I have my creeping moments of doubt. Still, you never know what kind of curve balls life has to throw at you.

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?

Yes. Again, I think I'm a tad bit more secure about not getting married than I used to be (either that I'm just jaded and bitter :) ), but yes, definitely looking forward to it.

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?

Probably not quite to the detailed extent that most women do, but yes, I have. However, most of the things that I would initially prefer - music, environment, the type of minister doing the wedding, etc. - will probably not go over well at all with my conservative family.

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?

Every article or snippet of news I've ever read on the subject has made it loud and clear that marriage has scientifically documented health benefits, and I think that that just makes plain common sense. Life is not meant to be lived in isolation, although certainly many in our society seem just perfectly fine with their lives being that way.

5) What do you think will be the worst things?

The inevitable conflicts. Especially the thought of falling into the pattern of treating my wife the way my dad sometimes treats my mom. But conflict in general is something that's going to happen in your life, regardless of whether you're married or not. The only thing about it is, when you have a spat with, say, a best friend, you may get pissed off, but you know that things will be back to normal after you've both cooled off a bit. So it's no big deal, really. With a significant other, however, I think things can get a little more tricky sometimes, because your emotions are much more involved. Still, I tend to feel that (ideally at least) being married, emotional baggage and all, is far better than living a lifetime alone simply to avoid the "hassles" of being in a relationship/married.

6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?

Yes, it's something I want, but I know that it can't be forced prematurely.

[outside the box]

here goes my little rant

marriage is both a longshot and unrealistic. Most couples who get married get divorced because it is not human nature to be monogamous for long periods of time (years) and the pressures of what a marriage is "supposed" to be add to the instability. the church created marriage for all its own reasons waaayyyy back. It is a relic of the olden times that has no relevance in modern society as women have equal status with men (a relatively new development) in terms of civilized human existence. The traditional family structure is also evolving to adapt to the increasing pressures and speed of modern lifestyles. It is both sad and counter-productive that most little girls are relentlessly bombarded from an early age with images and motivation to believe they will one day find that one special man and have a huge fancy white wedding and live happily ever after with 2.3 kids and a nice little dog. Modern civilization is widely (and should) accepting that 1 in 10 people are gay. This flies in the face of the good old image of a man and wife in perfect union. As my name suggests, one should think outside the box here and look beyond the mind numbing societal brainwashing that has so many young women feeling out of place or inadequate for not getting married by thirty to prince charming.

I know i will catch a significant amount of flack from all of those currently in long-standing marriages or new ones, but just remember you are the exception to the rule and even that doesnt make it natural. Fact is, a ton of marriages that stay in place remain so because on or both of the spouses have or are cheating and have yet to get caught. I am single and never married so there is no bitter divorce bias on my part. I know this isnt a good reply to the questions asked, but i think you know my feelings on the subject now.

good day. :)

[wordsmith]

here goes my little rant

marriage is both a longshot and unrealistic. Most couples who get married get divorced because it is not human nature to be monogamous for long periods of time (years) and the pressures of what a marriage is "supposed" to be add to the instability. the church created marriage for all its own reasons waaayyyy back. It is a relic of the olden times that has no relevance in modern society as women have equal status with men (a relatively new development) in terms of civilized human existence. The traditional family structure is also evolving to adapt to the increasing pressures and speed of modern lifestyles. It is both sad and counter-productive that most little girls are relentlessly bombarded from an early age with images and motivation to believe they will one day find that one special man and have a huge fancy white wedding and live happily ever after with 2.3 kids and a nice little dog. Modern civilization is widely (and should) accepting that 1 in 10 people are gay. This flies in the face of the good old image of a man and wife in perfect union. As my name suggests, one should think outside the box here and look beyond the mind numbing societal brainwashing that has so many young women feeling out of place or inadequate for not getting married by thirty to prince charming.

I know i will catch a significant amount of flack from all of those currently in long-standing marriages or new ones, but just remember you are the exception to the rule and even that doesnt make it natural. Fact is, a ton of marriages that stay in place remain so because on or both of the spouses have or are cheating and have yet to get caught. I am single and never married so there is no bitter divorce bias on my part. I know this isnt a good reply to the questions asked, but i think you know my feelings on the subject now.

good day. :)

Again, this isn't an indictment of marriage, it's an indictment of long-term committed relationships as unrealistic.

And, also, your tone is condescending and presumptuous.

And I'm single and never married as well, so there is no angry, insulted married person agenda that colors my response.

[wordsmith]

Life is not meant to be lived in isolation

I have to agree. Though they do exist, there are relatively few people who will truly be happy or healthy living their lives in relative isolation. Isolation is used as a punishment for a reason.

[Illuminous]

I didint read the whole rant, but the church did not invent marriage.

Pagans have been doing handfastings since before Christianity even existed, and it encompasses marriage in all respects.

[PenforPrez]

For the men on this board:
1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?

Maybe. I want to, but if I can't get a second date, that's a lot less likely, no? (Sorry, just a tad frustrated at the moment.

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?

Yes. I like the thought of being with someone that I could make a lifelong commitment to.

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?

Vaguely. I'm leaning against a church wedding at this point. That's about as much as I can envision.

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?

Finding someone I could share ALL of me with and hopefully not be judged. Finding a friend, lover, and soulmate, all three.

5) What do you think will be the worst things?

I'm a man who needs solitude a little bit, and that's hard in a marriage. Both sides have to contribute equally.

6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?

I definitely want it. I don't like the fog of impermanence that would hang over a 10-or 20-year relationship.

Paul

[SunDevil]

For the men on this board:
1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?

Yes, or at least in a long term relationship that resembles marriage


2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?

To find a girl, and be in a relationship that would be good enough to get to that point, Yes. The wedding, and spending 24/7 with another person, not so much.


3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?

Groomsmen: I only have one or two good friends, so if I have groomsmen, the choice will be easy.
Where: Either on a beach in the Caribbean (with a small family only wedding) or at this outdoor park in my hometown (I went to one wedding there and it was good)
Bride: No
Music: No
Ring: I know what ring I want and the one I would give to her
Age: By 35


4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?

Someone to share life with, travel with, talk to, and be there when I need someone. Hopefully the sex will be good.


5) What do you think will be the worst things?

Divorce, fights, cheating worries, lack of freedom, have to consult her on major life decisions, nagging, in-laws, jealousy, mood-swings, money issues, no soap operas, no drama in my life, nobody sees what you look like first thing in the morning, no anniversaries to accidentally forget, I can get home from work at whatever time I want, I can't watch whatever TV channel I want, no one snores, no folding clothes, no Valentines/birthday/Mother's day cards and gifts, can't spend as much time as I want to on hobbies, I never have to say where I've been or what I've been doing, having to watch chick-flicks, having to worry about saying what you think, or having to pretend you’re thinking something that you’re not, not being able to look at whatever I want to on the internet, not being able to go to strip clubs guilt free, complaining about my taste in music, having to clean my apartment/house and keeping it clean, having to put the toilet seat down, not being able to go to Vegas by myself or with guy friends, won't be able to look at girls and think what they would be like in bed, having to be concerned for my spouse’s health and welfare, things get moved and aren't in the place I put them, can't eat anything I normally do anymore (can of corn for dinner, drink right from bottle, put half full cans of baked beans in the fridge), have to wash my plates after I use them, I can't use my hands to eat steak anymore, don't have to worry too much about walking around at night, I can travel more lightly and less expensively (I don't need the $80/night hotel, a tent at a campground will work fine), I can also live much more cheaply and can also move easier if moving becomes necessary.



6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?

Yes, I want to do this one day. Society doesn't treat single guys in their 40's -70's very well.

But I answered number 6 before I made that list. That could be hell.

----------------------
This is a good audio clip from a radio show where they tried to prank this guys wife and she lets a little too much info slip out at the end. I bet this guy wishes he had stayed single.
http://www.starterupsteve.com/swf/diebitchdie.html

[Winter Storm]

Well, I have to say it is pretty refreshing to see most men here have a healthy outlook on marriage and what they want. So much better than the opinions I hear offline. Good to know there are men out there that still value these things. Seriously.

[ywt]

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?
Yes. Well, to be fair, I see myself finding someone to spend my life with, and in my mind that lends itself most naturally to marriage.

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?
Definitely

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?
I know who my best man will be, but that's about as far as I've gotten.

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?
As others have said, just having someone who is always there. Someone you can share yourself with. Someone to help me live life to the utmost.


5) What do you think will be the worst things?
That little bit of lost freedom. The possibility of having to make major sacrifices (changing jobs and moving) if their career/family obligations/etc requires it.

6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?
Yes, I'd say I want it. If it didn't come along, I'd find a way to deal, but I do feel I want it to happen someday.

[and1grad]

Is anybody else kind of OVER the whole "man and woman werent meant to be together for long periods of time" rhetoric? I get it that its the thing to say when people want to justify laziness towards commitment and/or infidelity but seriously, isnt it time people gave it a rest? The reasoning behind the argument is always absurdly weak. "Guys like looking at a lot of women so marriage doesnt make sense." "Um...high sperm count." :googly:

[PenforPrez]

Is anybody else kind of OVER the whole "man and woman werent meant to be together for long periods of time" rhetoric? I get it that its the thing to say when people want to justify laziness towards commitment and/or infidelity but seriously, isnt it time people gave it a rest? The reasoning behind the argument is always absurdly weak. "Guys like looking at a lot of women so marriage doesnt make sense." "Um...high sperm count." :googly:

I agree with you. It's just, for me, the problem with that, like I said, is the lack of permanence. I don't like the thought of being with somebody I really care about for 10 or 15 years and then all of a sudden, one day, she'll walk up to me and say "I don't love you anymore. Goodbye."

Redd Foxx put it pretty well: "They're known as 'Samsonite weddings.' You shack, when you get a divorce, all you gotta do is pack!"

Paul

[Winter Storm]

I agree with you. It's just, for me, the problem with that, like I said, is the lack of permanence. I don't like the thought of being with somebody I really care about for 10 or 15 years and then all of a sudden, one day, she'll walk up to me and say "I don't love you anymore. Goodbye."


But is that for or against marriage, cause that could and does happen married or not.

[yankeeyosh]

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?
I'm starting to doubt it

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?
I'd love to get married some day, but I just don't think it will ever be in the cards.

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?
I wonder sometimes, but I have no real concrete ideas

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?
Being able to raise a family and being with someone who I know I can trust and who respects me.
5) What do you think will be the worst things? Less privacy
6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?
As I said, yes, but I just don't see it for a long, long, long time, if ever.

[wordsmith]

Is anybody else kind of OVER the whole "man and woman werent meant to be together for long periods of time" rhetoric? I get it that its the thing to say when people want to justify laziness towards commitment and/or infidelity but seriously, isnt it time people gave it a rest? The reasoning behind the argument is always absurdly weak. "Guys like looking at a lot of women so marriage doesnt make sense." "Um...high sperm count." :googly:


He SPEAKS!

(And makes a lot of sense. Thanks for that!)

[CTGirl]

Is anybody else kind of OVER the whole "man and woman werent meant to be together for long periods of time" rhetoric? I get it that its the thing to say when people want to justify laziness towards commitment and/or infidelity but seriously, isnt it time people gave it a rest? The reasoning behind the argument is always absurdly weak. "Guys like looking at a lot of women so marriage doesnt make sense." "Um...high sperm count." :googly:

Wow, it's really refreshing to hear a guy say that

[PenforPrez]

But is that for or against marriage, cause that could and does happen married or not.

I'm for marriage and living together both. To me, it would just feel differently in a marriage because of the vow of "till death do you part." Of course, if it all goes to hell, it would be the same story.

Paul

[The Stranger]

I haven't posted in quite a while, but, I couldn't resist answering.

My answer to the first question is "no," which makes all the others n/a.

It may be an unpopular opinion, but, I don't think that lifelong monogamy is all that sustainable. Some people say it's because of biology, some people say it's because of culture, and some people say it's because of my gender's legendary short-term-thinking, but I say it's because of our ever-increasing lifespan. Back in the day, a permanent commitment only meant a few decades. Now, even if you marry relatively late, you still have to make it through half a century.

Don't get me wrong--the romantic in me hopes that it's possible to have a lifelong commitment. I don't think we need religion/government involved, anymore, though. But marriage as an institution...once you take a social phenomenon and try to entrench it, you'll eventually run into a situation where the phenomenon is no longer as prevalent. Also, you run the risk of having the institution mean more than the emotions behind it. I've seen people get married out of what I suspect is cultural inertia--they're expected to get married--rather than out of an overwhelming desire to do so. I think that's why the divorce rate is so high...cultural pressure to conform makes people take a jump that they don't want to take, or aren't ready for.

That said, full disclosure: weddings have always creeped me out. I mean, seriously. The way people (mainly women, admittedly) talk about them, it's just...gahhh. The few weddings I've been to, I've felt like I've stumbled into some cult-like ritual.

Overall, I think marriage would be much more successful (as a concept) if it was no longer touted as the main/only/optimal road to take in life. If the culture is forcing people into it, of course the divorce rate is going to be high, and people are going to be halfheartedly doing what they think they're supposed to...

[SmilesSoSweet]

Overall, I think marriage would be much more successful (as a concept) if it was no longer touted as the main/only/optimal road to take in life. If the culture is forcing people into it, of course the divorce rate is going to be high, and people are going to be halfheartedly doing what they think they're supposed to...

I couldn't agree with you more on what you posted here.

[crystal_dance]

Before I start, sorry for the threadjack. It was needed so y know.

I was reading through the thread and I saw ddork's posts so I felt the strong urge to CLARIFY certain things. I agree with J-girl on this, but then again I see eye to eye with her on lotsa issues.
Yes, there are indeed many many indian people who grow up in North America understanding and interpreting Indian culture exclusively through what our parents teach us. However, not every guy is a mama's boy opting for an arranged marriage to some family friend's daughter back in India/here. That's ludicrous. Sure, I've heard of people doing it but I've heard of people not doing it as well.
I know plenty of Indian people who grew up all over N.America as well as in India and I can tell you that surprisingly, the urban upper middle class Indian kids from big cities in India are way more open minded than many of the kids coming from a similar background out here. Possibly because for Indian kids in America, their only source to learning about their cultural roots is their parents and their parents left several decades ago carrying ideals from that period. LOTS have changed sinc then... I noticed the cultural changes when I went to India to visit last summer.
I'm very close to my family and love my parents alot (albeit from a distance lol), and while my parents may wish that I marry a nice Indian girl, I doubt that I will just for sake of that. My mom hopes that I'll go with the whole arranged marriage song n dance routine but she's seen me over the years and knows that I dated a whole lot of girls who were non-Indian. She kinda knows, things may not go her way but she's coming around.
I wanted to say all this because I've come accross situations in the past where a non-Indian woman would be interested in dating me, but because of all the arranged marriage stereotypes flying about, they just assume that I'm going to pick a girl from Bangalore eventually anyway, so it's best not to get involved and get heart broken later. Sheesh.

[stonemonkey]

Well, I have to say it is pretty refreshing to see most men here have a healthy outlook on marriage and what they want. So much better than the opinions I hear offline. Good to know there are men out there that still value these things. Seriously.

Just out of curiosity, how did you expect us to answer it? Most responses have been pretty stock standard so far. Discrepancies between male and female responses shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

[and1grad]

Before I start, sorry for the threadjack. It was needed so y know.

I was reading through the thread and I saw ddork's posts so I felt the strong urge to CLARIFY certain things. I agree with J-girl on this, but then again I see eye to eye with her on lotsa issues.
Yes, there are indeed many many indian people who grow up in North America understanding and interpreting Indian culture exclusively through what our parents teach us. However, not every guy is a mama's boy opting for an arranged marriage to some family friend's daughter back in India/here. That's ludicrous. Sure, I've heard of people doing it but I've heard of people not doing it as well.
I know plenty of Indian people who grew up all over N.America as well as in India and I can tell you that surprisingly, the urban upper middle class Indian kids from big cities in India are way more open minded than many of the kids coming from a similar background out here. Possibly because for Indian kids in America, their only source to learning about their cultural roots is their parents and their parents left several decades ago carrying ideals from that period. LOTS have changed sinc then... I noticed the cultural changes when I went to India to visit last summer.
I'm very close to my family and love my parents alot (albeit from a distance lol), and while my parents may wish that I marry a nice Indian girl, I doubt that I will just for sake of that. My mom hopes that I'll go with the whole arranged marriage song n dance routine but she's seen me over the years and knows that I dated a whole lot of girls who were non-Indian. She kinda knows, things may not go her way but she's coming around.
I wanted to say all this because I've come accross situations in the past where a non-Indian woman would be interested in dating me, but because of all the arranged marriage stereotypes flying about, they just assume that I'm going to pick a girl from Bangalore eventually anyway, so it's best not to get involved and get heart broken later. Sheesh.
I've actually never known an indian, male or female, in our age bracket that has gone the arranged marriage route so I really think dddork's situation is interesting. I'm not sure if people thought he was speaking for the entire culture rather than for himself but the clarification is appreciated.

[and1grad]

Just out of curiosity, how did you expect us to answer it? Most responses have been pretty stock standard so far. Discrepancies between male and female responses shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.
She's said before that her real life male friends, and some females I think, are absolutely against marriage so I think she was trying to see if that was the widespread opinion.

[asm198]

I'm not a guy, but I had to respond.


I've found the right person, and I see there no reason to wait any longer.

I think that ideally, that's pretty much the way it SHOULD work.

However, we know that's not the case for all. Just looking to people I've known, in addition to the ones where the above logic truly applied (thumbs up), I've seen and actually heard the following:

-we're pregnant.
-our parents won't get off our case and we're sick of hearing about it.
-I HAVE to be married by the time I'm [fill in the blank age].
-If I don't get married now, I might not ever.
-it's expected.

All of which are poor reasons, in my eyes.

Agreed. I grew up in a small town, probably the smallest of anyone on the boards, and agree wholeheartedly with the reasons that Words has posted. It was expected in my small town that as soon as you graduate from high school, that you get married to the boy/girlfriend that you had at the time and start popping out babies. Now, there were exceptions to that rule. If you were intelligent and going to college, you could delay this a bit. The one example that comes to mind is the oldest sister of a girl in my class. She was a senior when I was in 6th grade. She was dating a guy in her class. They started dating when they were in 6th grade and dated throughout jr. high, high school, college (for both), and grad school. They got married after grad school and have stayed married. And actually, when I was in elementary and jr. high, that was more the norm. When the popular kids hit 7th grade, the girls would date a senior in high school and they'd date until the girl graduated, then they'd get married. It changed a bit when I got into high school, but not by much.

I was almost one of these people. I started dating my fiance my senior year of high school. We got engaged at 20 and were planning a wedding for after I graduated from college at 22. The college graduation never happened, but about 6 months before the wedding, I freaked out. I didn't want to be one of those people who are getting married because you've been together for so long that "it's just what you do". So we called it off and broke up. Granted, we got back together two years later, but it was more of an adult relationship. We aren't getting married now because that's what you're supposed to do, we're getting married because we want to. And really, because of some unromantic things like health insurance, power of attorney, etc.

here goes my little rant

marriage is both a longshot and unrealistic. Most couples who get married get divorced because it is not human nature to be monogamous for long periods of time (years) and the pressures of what a marriage is "supposed" to be add to the instability. the church created marriage for all its own reasons waaayyyy back. It is a relic of the olden times that has no relevance in modern society as women have equal status with men (a relatively new development) in terms of civilized human existence. The traditional family structure is also evolving to adapt to the increasing pressures and speed of modern lifestyles. It is both sad and counter-productive that most little girls are relentlessly bombarded from an early age with images and motivation to believe they will one day find that one special man and have a huge fancy white wedding and live happily ever after with 2.3 kids and a nice little dog. Modern civilization is widely (and should) accepting that 1 in 10 people are gay. This flies in the face of the good old image of a man and wife in perfect union. As my name suggests, one should think outside the box here and look beyond the mind numbing societal brainwashing that has so many young women feeling out of place or inadequate for not getting married by thirty to prince charming.

I know i will catch a significant amount of flack from all of those currently in long-standing marriages or new ones, but just remember you are the exception to the rule and even that doesnt make it natural. Fact is, a ton of marriages that stay in place remain so because on or both of the spouses have or are cheating and have yet to get caught. I am single and never married so there is no bitter divorce bias on my part. I know this isnt a good reply to the questions asked, but i think you know my feelings on the subject now.

good day. :)


Blah, blah, blah. We don't cheat because we respect each other. I've told him that if he one day decides that he doesn't want to be with me anymore, then he needs to get the balls to say so. Yeah, I'll be pissed, but it would be better than living in a marriage that isn't real. That said, I've cheated on him. It was one time, long ago, and we were having issues. It's no excuse, but he had pissed me off and knew that he had pissed me off and didn't care. So I told him what I was going to do (not cheating, but it was implied) and he said go and do it. So I did. And I felt guilty about it for months. Actually moved out of our apartment. He begged me to come back and the only reason I did was because he wanted to work things out. I didn't tell him I cheated until 5 years later. Why? Not to save my ass, by any mean, but because I wanted to lay all my cards out on the table. I didn't tell him before because that would only serve to make my guilt go away. He would have been hurt and I would have confessed, but what good would have come out of it. I have since grown up and gotten over myself. So, if either of us wants to cheat or wants out, then we're going to counselling to try and fix the issue. If that doesn't work, then we will part ways. But at least we will know that we did our best to try and work out our issues.

I'm not 'pro divorce'. We ended things before because, if we had gotten married then, I know without a doubt we would have gotten divorced. We were young and stupid and doing what we were supposed to do. I only want to get married once and I'm going to fight for my marriage, but if it's a losing battle, then I'm willing do move on. I won't stay in a loveless marriage, but I will fight my for my marriage the best I can.

[asm198]

Divorce, fights, cheating worries, lack of freedom, have to consult her on major life decisions, nagging, in-laws, jealousy, mood-swings, money issues, no soap operas, no drama in my life, nobody sees what you look like first thing in the morning, no anniversaries to accidentally forget, I can get home from work at whatever time I want, I can't watch whatever TV channel I want, no one snores, no folding clothes, no Valentines/birthday/Mother's day cards and gifts, can't spend as much time as I want to on hobbies, I never have to say where I've been or what I've been doing, having to watch chick-flicks, having to worry about saying what you think, or having to pretend you’re thinking something that you’re not, not being able to look at whatever I want to on the internet, not being able to go to strip clubs guilt free, complaining about my taste in music, having to clean my apartment/house and keeping it clean, having to put the toilet seat down, not being able to go to Vegas by myself or with guy friends, won't be able to look at girls and think what they would be like in bed, having to be concerned for my spouse’s health and welfare, things get moved and aren't in the place I put them, can't eat anything I normally do anymore (can of corn for dinner, drink right from bottle, put half full cans of baked beans in the fridge), have to wash my plates after I use them, I can't use my hands to eat steak anymore, don't have to worry too much about walking around at night, I can travel more lightly and less expensively (I don't need the $80/night hotel, a tent at a campground will work fine), I can also live much more cheaply and can also move easier if moving becomes necessary.

I'm not trying to pick on you, SunDevil, but this was lengthy and I had to respond. Not all girls pick on you for this shit. Granted, I'm probably one of the strangest girls in the world, but most of this stuff is definitely stuff I don't care in the least about.

I have a couple of 'rules' that he must follow or I get pissed. I want something neat for Christmas. I want something neat for my birthday, plus dinner someplace that I like. He must take me to the local RenFest every year. He must not give me ANYTHING for Valentine's Day. And, he must have one non-major holiday off for us to go out and celebrate. Last year, it was New Years Eve and it was the first New Years we've spent together in 6 years. Other than that, my only rule is that you must call if you are going to be unusually late.

I guess I should clarify a bit. My fiance is manages a bar in town that stays open fairly late. It's pretty common that, when he is the closing manager, that he doesn't get home until 6-7 am. Sometimes he's a mid (2-midnight) and he'll stay and drink with friends. I honestly don't care if he does. I ask that he call me and tell me he's out drinking with friends, but I don't hound him about it and I don't call every 30 minutes to check up on him. He is completely free to do his own thing, as far as I'm concerned.

And actually, the main reason this rule is in place is because I don't want to worry that he's in the emergency room and someone forgot to call me. That's not be being a worrywart, either. He got 8 stitches in his head last year because of an altercation with a customer and was taken to the ER. He wouldn't let them call him because it was 2 am and I had to be at work early.

I don't care if he goes to strip clubs or out to bars with his friends. He's an adult and I'm not his babysitter. Also, I HATE Valentine's Day. Always have, always will. He's not allowed to celebrate the day, which he's glad for. And anniversaries? I have no idea when our anniversary is, to be honest. We decided on a day, but both of us always forget it. Rarely does he have to watch chick flicks, because we have a system and I don't really like chick flicks. If he wants to watch the SciFi channel for 10 hours, I'm annoyed and mock him for it, but if I'm really annoyed by it, I'll watch what I want to in the other room. No hard feelings.

Anyway, he's free to do what he wants with his life. I've read the entire thread and many of the guys here have said that they are afraid of losing their freedom. That doesn't have to be the case. Not all women have been planning their weddings from birth and are wanting the (ultra annoying) white knight figure. Some of us actually like to go out and drink beer and play pool and watch sports and camp (well, not me on this one) and ride motorcycles and aren't afraid to get our hands dirty.

I don't know where you all are from that all the women are such princesses, who want the Cinderella fantasy dream, but not all women are like that.

[IndecisiveGeek]

1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?
YES

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?
YES

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?
NO

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?
SHARING LIFE'S JOYS AND SORROWS WITH MY SOULMATE

5) What do you think will be the worst things?
HAVING TO COMPROMISE AND CONSIDER SOMEONE ELSE.

6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?
IF IT DOESN'T COME ALONG, I GUESS I'LL HAVE TO DEAL BUT I DEFINANTLY WANT IT.

[stonemonkey]

Anyway, he's free to do what he wants with his life. I've read the entire thread and many of the guys here have said that they are afraid of losing their freedom. That doesn't have to be the case.

Now there's a novel idea. Getting married, but behaving as though you were single. Then you'd get the best of both worlds.

[Winter Storm]

I haven't posted in quite a while, but, I couldn't resist answering....
Don't get me wrong--the romantic in me hopes that it's possible to have a lifelong commitment. I don't think we need religion/government involved, anymore, though. But marriage as an institution...once you take a social phenomenon and try to entrench it, you'll eventually run into a situation where the phenomenon is no longer as prevalent. Also, you run the risk of having the institution mean more than the emotions behind it. I've seen people get married out of what I suspect is cultural inertia--they're expected to get married--rather than out of an overwhelming desire to do so. I think that's why the divorce rate is so high...cultural pressure to conform makes people take a jump that they don't want to take, or aren't ready for.

I'm honored that it was my thread that thwarted you back.

And you makes some great points. I've heard of a few people getting married not because they really wanted to but because it seemed like the natural next step in their relationship and just went for it. I do think our society places a bit too much emphasis on tying the knot.

[Winter Storm]

Just out of curiosity, how did you expect us to answer it? Most responses have been pretty stock standard so far. Discrepancies between male and female responses shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

That's the thing, I found few discrepancies. The males who answered seemed to want marriage as much as the women. And with the exception of who actually visualizes wedding plans more, most answers were the same.

I wasn't sure how men would answer, I just know that most guys I know in real life seem pretty terrified and turned off by the thought of marriage, viewing it as more of a prison sentence than anything else, so the responses here really surprised me.

[meatwad]

Now that I think about it, I did hear Simple Man on the radio about a year ago and thought that would be a good song to dance to with my mom at my wedding. And no I'm not addicted to NASCar with a beatup pickup on blocks in front of my trailer. I do own a trailer though. Hmmmmmm.

[wordsmith]

Simple Man would be a good song.

[Jedi of Zen]

I wasn't sure how men would answer, I just know that most guys I know in real life seem pretty terrified and turned off by the thought of marriage, viewing it as more of a prison sentence than anything else, so the responses here really surprised me.

I have actually found in my own life that a significant percentage of the women (I'd say a good 50% or so) that I have either befriended/dated/whatever with are not nearly as down with marriage as conventional stereotypes may dictate. Of course, the average marrying age is on the rise last I heard. Also, I have my own thoughts about the dynamics of American culture that simply don't encourage monogamy (huge can of worms to open some other time).

Or, it could just be that I have bad breath.

[wordsmith]

I don't think that the population is ovewhelmingly anti-marriage.

I do think that for the most part, we're not seriously in marriage frames of mind, in general, until we're slightly older these days. The trend is shifting upward, for now, yes, average ages to be married are on the rise, slightly. Of course, they can only shift upward so much, before female fertility become a concern, so it'll plateau. The slightly older marriages shift may not apply to some demographic circles (small towns like my hometown will probably always have higher rates of young marriages than other places, it's a cultural thing), but as a whole it seems to be true.

So I don't think it's that so many of us are anti-marriage...we're just not, in many cases, sweating it RIGHT NOW.

[Winter Storm]

I have actually found in my own life that a significant percentage of the women (I'd say a good 50% or so) that I have either befriended/dated/whatever with are not nearly as down with marriage as conventional stereotypes may dictate.

True. I think I can also name quite a few women I know that aren't trying to get married and perceive it as a negative thing.

But I think deep down inside, many of them would jump at the chance if Mr. Wonderful did come along and put that rock on their finger. I think a lot of women condition themselves to not want it, thinking that they probably won't get it. I try at times, but I can only delude myself so long.

[wordsmith]

I think a lot of women condition themselves to not want it, thinking that they probably won't get it. I try at times, but I can only delude myself so long.

I think there's something to this. Keep your expectations low, you can't be disappointed?

Also, for a lot of people, it's a pride thing, and it becomes preferable to convice others (and maybe yourself) that "That's okay, I didn't want it anyway."

[WorkInProgress]

I think there's something to this. Keep your expectations low, you can't be disappointed?

I think that's exactly it. It's what's behind my "hey, I want it, but I'll be ok if it doesn't happen" bit. I do want it, and I will be ok if it doesn't happen, but I wonder why I feel like I should/have to/need to say that I'll be ok if. Maybe so I don't come off as some desperate old maid?

[and1grad]

I don't think that the population is ovewhelmingly anti-marriage.

I do think that for the most part, we're not seriously in marriage frames of mind, in general, until we're slightly older these days. The trend is shifting upward, for now, yes, average ages to be married are on the rise, slightly. Of course, they can only shift upward so much, before female fertility become a concern, so it'll plateau. The slightly older marriages shift may not apply to some demographic circles (small towns like my hometown will probably always have higher rates of young marriages than other places, it's a cultural thing), but as a whole it seems to be true.

So I don't think it's that so many of us are anti-marriage...we're just not, in many cases, sweating it RIGHT NOW.
Just to add to this, I think as our lifespans lengthen, so do the different stages of our lives, like childhood and adolescence, so people just generally dont feel the urge to settle down until later. Also, with it becoming more and more common that women can have children, w/o complication, beyond 35, I think that'll just push those timelines back even further.

[Winter Storm]

I think that's exactly it. It's what's behind my "hey, I want it, but I'll be ok if it doesn't happen" bit. I do want it, and I will be ok if it doesn't happen, but I wonder why I feel like I should/have to/need to say that I'll be ok if. Maybe so I don't come off as some desperate old maid?

You know why? Cause you'll get lots of shit for it. If you say, gee, I'd really like to get married one day but if it doesn't happy, I'll be really disappointed or yeah, I'd really rather not spend the rest of my years just dating or perpetually single forever, there is always someone that will try and make you feel like those feelings aren't justified and that you shouldn't feel that way. :rolleyes:

[meatwad]

Simple Man would be a good song.

I'm unna git married in flannel tux wit da sleeves all cut off.

[and1grad]

I think there's something to this. Keep your expectations low, you can't be disappointed?

Also, for a lot of people, it's a pride thing, and it becomes preferable to convice others (and maybe yourself) that "That's okay, I didn't want it anyway."
Ya but the expectations thing only applies for so long in this situation. I mean, if you didnt have some expectations, more than just "low" anyway, you'd probably get with and marry any dope off the street. :huge:

[Winter Storm]

Also, with it becoming more and more common that women can have children, w/o complication, beyond 35, I think that'll just push those timelines back even further.

Where I used to hope I'd be done childbearing by 32, I think I'll be lucky to pop out my first by 35.

[WorkInProgress]

Where I used to hope I'd be done childbearing by 32, I think I'll be lucky to pop out my first by 35.

Yeah, I was gonna be done NLT 30 (on the original timeline, which was thrown out years ago). Still possible, but really far off the map.

[wordsmith]

Ya but the expectations thing only applies for so long in this situation. I mean, if you didnt have some expectations, more than just "low" anyway, you'd probably get with and marry any dope off the street. :huge:

Don't you think this is why i don't date locally? :huge:

I think that's exactly it. It's what's behind my "hey, I want it, but I'll be ok if it doesn't happen" bit. I do want it, and I will be ok if it doesn't happen, but I wonder why I feel like I should/have to/need to say that I'll be ok if. Maybe so I don't come off as some desperate old maid?

Becuae nobody wants to be a cliche.

[Winter Storm]

I posted this thread on another message board and got some very different responses from men:


I look at marriage as something that is antiquated, unless you want to raise children....

I see it as a trap to channel a mans resources (financial,sexual freedom, etc....) into a structure that a woman has legal rights to and can control....

It scares me. There is so much hype about it where women are conerned that it almost makes me swear that I will never do it....

Having a boss at home as well as work. If she gets tired of you, drops you and collects the $$$$$$....

No. When I was younger, it was something I looked forward to. I later realized that it was a fantasy. I'll never get married.....

Let me be the first to say hell no. While a good marriage isn't a bad thing, it really doesn't surve much purpose anymore. Men for the most part worry about finding a good woman, and marriage may naturally evolve from that for them. Men have little need to fantasize about weddings and marriage because it's all designed for WOMEN. It's always about how much a wedding is a woman's special day.

As a man? I'ld say I'm more interested in finding a partner and a mate.. marriage? What's that got to do with anything? Lets for a minute assume marriage has no negative affect for men.

What exactly is the motivation to get married? There really is none. It's an old tradition that has lost its steam. Ideally, there's nothing wrong with marriage, there's just no reason to do it. I mean a RELATIONSHIP represents everything people want today. A marriage is just something to do for the sake of it....

Those responses didn't surprise me at all as that is usually what I hear.

I must also say that QLC is one of the few places, where men post responses that aren't the sterotypical norm. In fact, we truely seem to have the most articulate, intelligent and sincere men in cyberspace. :)

[WorkInProgress]

I must also say that QLC is one of the few places, where men post responses that aren't the sterotypical norm. In fact, we truely seem to have the most articulate, intelligent and sincere men in cyberspace. :)

GO US! Now we'll never let them go. :razz:

[and1grad]

Ya but you cant blame a man for being cynical. I think its pretty much a general rule that as a man, if a marriage doesnt work out, you're fucked.

[Winter Storm]

Ya but you cant blame a man for being cynical. I think its pretty much a general rule that as a man, if a marriage doesnt work out, you're fucked.

Ok, well as a man, speak on it. I wanted to hear your opinion.

I knew you were holding back! I was seriously surprised no one brought up the divorce/alimony/screwed-over effect. I'd think it would be the #1 fear. :rolleyes:

[WorkInProgress]

Ya but you cant blame a man for being cynical. I think its pretty much a general rule that as a man, if a marriage doesnt work out, you're fucked.

I was under them impression that pretty much everyone's screwed (as it were) in a divorce.

[and1grad]

Ok, well as a man, speak on it. I wanted to hear your opinion.

I knew you were holding back! I was seriously surprised no one brought up the divorce/alimony/screwed-over effect. I'd think it would be the #1 fear. :rolleyes:
Its MY #1 fear. Divorce court is set up for the woman to benefit. Thats clear as crystal. Guys better be 1000% sure before they make that leap.

[and1grad]

I was under them impression that pretty much everyone's screwed (as it were) in a divorce.
You cant possibly think its even tho...cuz its not even CLOSE.

[Winter Storm]

Its MY #1 fear. Divorce court is set up for the woman to benefit. Thats clear as crystal. Guys better be 1000% sure before they make that leap.

Thank you! For being the first to admit it (or say it). Of the men I've talked to that was their #1, if only real fear. Perhaps, no one wanted to say that here?

[wordsmith]

I was under them impression that pretty much everyone's screwed (as it were) in a divorce.

Indeed. agreed.

[and1grad]

Thank you! For being the first to admit it (or say it). Of the men I've talked to that was their #1, if only real fear. Perhaps, no one wanted to say that here?
I dont think any of your questions really asked for that. At least, I didnt read em that way.

[meatwad]

You cant possibly think its even tho...cuz its not even CLOSE.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with this based on family and friends that have gone through it. Unless both sides avoid the lawyers and honestly work to come up with an equal arrangement.

[LakeJay]

Divorce definitely is a big fear of mine. I believe in the "women and marriage" thread a few posters voiced their concern that during tough times they would be putting in all the effort to make it work but their husband wouldn't. Well I'm worried that I might be that husband. I like to think I am a good person with strong character but I know I'm not perfect. I think that's why I'm not concerned that I haven't that "special someone" just yet. As mentioned earlier I want to be 1000% sure. I've seen too many friends and family get divorced and I'm pretty sure the parties involved thought it was forever. Who's to say I'll be strong enough to do what it takes to make it last?

[WorkInProgress]

You cant possibly think its even tho...cuz its not even CLOSE.

Are you talking about in individual cases or on a macro level?

I'd definitely agree that often it results in a financial hit on the man. But I also think that in some cases (like where the ex-wife quit working outside of the home to raise kids during the marriage), it's not unfair of the ex-husband to compensate her for that.

To be honest, I don't actually know all that many divorced people. Of the ones I do know personally, both individuals' had financial issues, not just the man, with the exception of one man whose divorce totally effed up his finances, and I don't know about his ex-wife's. Of the couples (close relatives) I know who aren't divorced, but hypothetically could, all three wives are stay at home moms (but one works part time), and damn skippy should be compensated for all of the lost opportunity (since all three couples decided as a couple that the wife would stay home with the kids), and the couple my age whose wedding I'm in next month, if that ends up in divorce, the woman will have far more financial fallout than the man, even though her job pays her less than his does, since he's got a large amount of debt (and she's paying a lot of it down, out of her savings) and worse credit than she does.

[Winter Storm]

I dont think any of your questions really asked for that. At least, I didnt read em that way.

I was thinking along he lines of worst points, ie fears.

[vivo]

We want pre-nup, we want pre-nup(or something like that)!

[and1grad]

On a macro level. Debt issues aside, usually the woman will make out FAR better than the man. I dont really buy the whole compensate her for being a mom thing. Thats bogus to me. That, to me, is like saying I should be compensated for other intangible things like having to deal with her during PMS and a myriad of other things I could name off but wont.

Winter, I read it as worst fears of being married rather than possible fears of getting married.

[WorkInProgress]

We want pre-nup, we want pre-nup(or something like that)!
Actually, I have no intention of getting married without a pre-nup.

[and1grad]

We want pre-nup, we want pre-nup(or something like that)!
Those arent as foolproof as people have been led to believe. I think of it as like a seatbelt. Might save your life but your car's still jacked up...and being towed...at your expense.

[WorkInProgress]

I dont really buy the whole compensate her for being a mom thing. Thats bogus to me. That, to me, is like saying I should be compensated for other intangible things like having to deal with her during PMS and a myriad of other things I could name off but wont.

If that's your POV on it, then I can see why you'd think it's such a ripoff to men. I totally disagree with you, but I will contain myself and we can agree to disagree.

[LakeJay]

I had my doubts earlier but I knew my friend's marriage was definitely in trouble when her husband starting talking about a post-nup.

[cache]

I must also say that QLC is one of the few places, where men post responses that aren't the sterotypical norm. In fact, we truely seem to have the most articulate, intelligent and sincere men in cyberspace. :)

Actually, all the men on QLC are really just one person posting under different names...

I see it as a trap to channel a mans resources (financial,sexual freedom, etc....) into a structure that a woman has legal rights to and can control....

If you look at marriage that way, I can't imagine how this person's dates go:

"Why do you want me to pay? Can't you pay? Are you trying to corner me into giving you my credit cards? What's with all this pressure? That's it, we're through, better pay for your extra value meal because I'm not!"

[dddork]

I must also say that QLC is one of the few places, where men post responses that aren't the sterotypical norm. In fact, we truely seem to have the most articulate, intelligent and sincere men in cyberspace. :)

I am 100 percent with you on this one!!

[wordsmith]

If that's your POV on it, then I can see why you'd think it's such a ripoff to men. I totally disagree with you, but I will contain myself and we can agree to disagree.

Agreed. However, I didn't contain myself. :huge:

I don't see how the COST OF RAISING CHILDREN is something that's so easily brushed off as a bullshit intangible rather than something that should by rights be shouldered by both parents. How is that bogus?

[and1grad]

If that's your POV on it, then I can see why you'd think it's such a ripoff to men. I totally disagree with you, but I will contain myself and we can agree to disagree.
We can agree to disagree but before we do that...

Thats not the really the reason I see it as a ripoff. Men pay alimony pretty much until a woman finds another man. That doesnt seem absurd? I would go into child support but I already got into it ad nauseum with your twin so I'll pass.

Back to the fine me/pay you b/c you decided to be a stay at home mom thing...unless I forced you to not work, why do I owe you part of my paycheck for that decision?

[WorkInProgress]

However, I didn't contain myself. :huge:

Of course not. :razz:

[and1grad]

Agreed. However, I didn't contain myself. :huge:

I don't see how the COST OF RAISING CHILDREN is something that's so easily brushed off as a bullshit intangible rather than something that should by rights be shouldered by both parents. How is that bogus?
Sigh...no one said child support is bogus. How its done IS bogus. Thats undeniable.

[wordsmith]

We can agree to disagree but before we do that...

Thats not the really the reason I see it as a ripoff. Men pay alimony pretty much until a woman finds another man. That doesnt seem absurd? I would go into child support but I already got into it ad nauseum with your twin so I'll pass.

I think alimony is bullshit. I'll give you that. But not the child support thing.

[wordsmith]

Now I'm wondering, though, if most men commonly see most women as vultures who set out to get married, looking to profit from divorce.

Seriously, divorce is horrible and painful and traumatic to any parties involved, especially any children, not to mention costly. I don't think that it's typically viewed as an attractive moneymaking option by most of us.

[and1grad]

Now I'm wondering, though, if most men commonly see most women as vultures who set out to get married, looking to profit from divorce.
Sigh...come on. :googly:

[meatwad]

Now I'm wondering, though, if most men commonly see most women as vultures who set out to get married, looking to profit from divorce.

Seriously, divorce is horrible and painful and traumatic to any parties involved, especially any children, not to mention costly. I don't think that it's typically viewed as an attractive moneymaking option by most of us.

I don't see women that way, but it has to be a consideration when starting a relationship with ANY woman, because you only get a small number (hopefully only one) chance to screw it up. This is why I don't understand how two people can say "I know he/she's the one for me and we're getting married next week," after only dating for a month.

[wordsmith]

I don't see women that way, but it has to be a consideration when starting a relationship with ANY woman, because you only get a small number (hopefully only one) chance to screw it up. This is why I don't understand how two people can say "I know he/she's the one for me and we're getting married next week," after only dating for a month.

Definitely don't understand that, myself, either.

But look at it this way... trust is HUGE. How do you know you can trust somebody with your emotions (OR your future net worth), that quickly? In bad marriages, people screw eachother over all kinds of ways. And1 is talking about financially getting screwed over. I'd like to point out that there are many ways of screwing a spouse over that are just as damaging. And, that, too, has to be taken into consideration when starting any relationship with any man OR woman.

[WorkInProgress]

We can agree to disagree but before we do that...

Thats not the really the reason I see it as a ripoff. Men pay alimony pretty much until a woman finds another man. That doesnt seem absurd? I would go into child support but I already got into it ad nauseum with your twin so I'll pass.

Back to the fine me/pay you b/c you decided to be a stay at home mom thing...unless I forced you to not work, why do I owe you part of my paycheck for that decision?

I agree that paying alimony until the ex-wife gets herself married off again is stupid, as a construct. I'll leave child support for you and Words. I have no desire to fight that one, but I doubt I'd disagree with much of anything she'd have to say about it.

As for the stay at home mom bit... *deep breath* If it is the couple's decision that a parent (in this case, and in most, the mother) should quit working outside of the home, then that person must rely on the other for all financial support. Is it fair for a women to spend, let's say 20 some years at home raising kids, unable to save individually for retirement (since it's assumed that Mr's 401(k), IRAs and other saving mechanisms will cover both him and her, since they were going to grow old together, you know--unless they've opened and are contributing to "his & hers"), since her job (and, make no mistake, raising kids and keeping house is a JOB) doesn't pay her anything financially. And, how can a woman just make that decision on her own, unless her husband agrees to support her financially, or unless she's got income from somewhere else?

So, she's basically gotten fired from a job and has to go get another not in her field (unless she's rushing to get remarried). So, retraining's necessary, depending on what skills she's got already (not complaining that it's necessary, just saying that it's expensive, in terms of time and money). So, once she's got the skills she needs for a different job, she finds one! Yay--but not she's starting at the bottom again, in terms of seniority and pay (again, not complaining, but saying that it is the situation), so she's set at a lower income bracket. If it's enough to cover her (reasonble--because I'm not about to argue that unreasonable costs should be shouldered by the ex) costs and allows her to save for her retirement, great. If not, there's a problem.

If I've been out of the work force for far less time, then I think it's less of a problem. (It's easier to come back from a 5 year break, than from a 20 year break.) But then there are child costs, which WS has already beaten you up about.

Hey, you asked. Again, you may disagree (vehemently), and that's fine. I, personally, don't think that this is money-grubbing or gold-digging.

[HeyBud]

[QUOTE=Winter Storm]So I'm trying to get an idea of what men here think of marriage.

I often see woman talking about their future marriage hopes and anticipating engagement and the like, but I rarely see or hear of men getting as excited about it or that it is something they are really looking forward to or really want.
So shed some light for me:

For the men on this board:
1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?

I doubt it.

2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?

Not at all, it doesn't sound fun at all. Sounds quite the opposite. The divorce rates and money that gets robbed from people (mostly men), after the fact sounds miserable.

3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?

No, and even if I was, these details are picayune.

4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?

Nothing

5) What do you think will be the worst things?

Being held back, having to completely sacrifice your life for someone elses, fear a wife would be too controlling and make me cut off my friends and regular activities. Financial quandaries. Leaving a nice city to live in a boring suburban cookie-cutter community.

6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?

Not at all, I have a horrendous view on marriage obviously. My parents are still together but basically by force. They should of of divorced or at least separated long ago. I have friends that are already divorced, separated had engagements called off, and/or are now single parents. And these are people anywhere from age 19-30. It's not good. That doesn't help matters either. I know of maybe a handful of even stable boyfriend/girlfriend relationships. And of all my friends that are still engaged or married, and that's around 10 maybe? I see only one of them working out. I wish I could find something good about it. I would like to maybe be with a girl or live with one but the thought of marriage mortifies and petrifies me. Too many people push it on you, well I blame myself, I allow people to talk too often about marriage to my face. However, they are usually just projecting and don't feel too positive about it themselves.

And for the guys that know they definitely don't want to get married, could you explain why? And be honest. I really want to know what men think on this.

I answered a lot in the previous question. It's actually giving me a headache thinking about it all. Great q&a though!

[WorkInProgress]

Now I'm wondering, though, if most men commonly see most women as vultures who set out to get married, looking to profit from divorce.

Seriously, divorce is horrible and painful and traumatic to any parties involved, especially any children, not to mention costly. I don't think that it's typically viewed as an attractive moneymaking option by most of us.

Um no. Not even close. I hope to never, ever get divorced.

[CTGirl]

5) What do you think will be the worst things?

Being held back, having to completely sacrifice your life for someone elses, fear a wife would be too controlling and make me cut off my friends and regular activities. Financial quandaries. Leaving a nice city to live in a boring suburban cookie-cutter community.


This thought process, while very common, seems so silly to me. If you don't want to have a controlling wife, dont marry one. If you dont want to be cut off and sacrifice your own interests, then dont. If you want to live in a city, then live in a city. I never understood this reasoning.

[wordsmith]

Um no. Not even close. I hope to never, ever get divorced.

Even if you could make out like a bandit, and stick it to the man in the process???

Yeah, me, either.

[wordsmith]

Leaving a nice city to live in a boring suburban cookie-cutter community.

I had NO IDEA this was part of marriage!

[and1grad]

I agree that paying alimony until the ex-wife gets herself married off again is stupid, as a construct. I'll leave child support for you and Words. I have no desire to fight that one, but I doubt I'd disagree with much of anything she'd have to say about it.

As for the stay at home mom bit... *deep breath* If it is the couple's decision that a parent (in this case, and in most, the mother) should quit working outside of the home, then that person must rely on the other for all financial support. Is it fair for a women to spend, let's say 20 some years at home raising kids, unable to save individually for retirement (since it's assumed that Mr's 401(k), IRAs and other saving mechanisms will cover both him and her, since they were going to grow old together, you know--unless they've opened and are contributing to "his & hers"), since her job (and, make no mistake, raising kids and keeping house is a JOB) doesn't pay her anything financially. And, how can a woman just make that decision on her own, unless her husband agrees to support her financially, or unless she's got income from somewhere else?

So, she's basically gotten fired from a job and has to go get another not in her field (unless she's rushing to get remarried). So, retraining's necessary, depending on what skills she's got already (not complaining that it's necessary, just saying that it's expensive, in terms of time and money). So, once she's got the skills she needs for a different job, she finds one! Yay--but not she's starting at the bottom again, in terms of seniority and pay (again, not complaining, but saying that it is the situation), so she's set at a lower income bracket. If it's enough to cover her (reasonble--because I'm not about to argue that unreasonable costs should be shouldered by the ex) costs and allows her to save for her retirement, great. If not, there's a problem.

If I've been out of the work force for far less time, then I think it's less of a problem. (It's easier to come back from a 5 year break, than from a 20 year break.) But then there are child costs, which WS has already beaten you up about.

Hey, you asked. Again, you may disagree (vehemently), and that's fine. I, personally, don't think that this is money-grubbing or gold-digging.
First, I dont know what words may have told you but she didnt beat me up about anything. Anyway, basically your argument is that with stay-at-home parenting being a "job", you're owed some kind of severance pay for it. If its a family decision, and I disagree that the husband has to agree with it (whats he gonna do, MAKE her work? divorce her? well...), THEN sure cut her a check. But if its not a family decision, I think its junk. But then you come into the fold of what can you prove and who has the onus of proving how the stay-at-home situation came about? I've got no answers for that.

Also, what if the job she gets sucks? Is that the husband's fault too? What incentive is there to get a good job if he's footing the rest of the bill anyway? Not that it would always be the case that she works minimally b/c, well why not?...but when that scenario happens, then what? Still stinks, IMO.

[wordsmith]

First, I dont know what words may have told you

That'd be a big nothing.

[wordsmith]

If its a family decision, and I disagree that the husband has to agree with it (whats he gonna do, MAKE her work? divorce her? well...), THEN sure cut her a check. But if its not a family decision, I think its junk. But then you come into the fold of what can you prove and who has the onus of proving how the stay-at-home situation came about? I've got no answers for that.

Exactly. And, as discussed, what husband in the world is gonna say, "Well, yes, we both agreed to her being a stay at home mom," when he knows that's gonna cost him? So you get "No, I never agreed to that scenario."

[Chameleon]

and1grad, you might want to consider moving to a state with saner divorce laws so no money-grubbing former love of your life will get alimony from you.

[and1grad]

What state would that be?

[wordsmith]

Are we actually using "Divorce sucks" as an argument against marriage?

Because being in a head-on collision with a semi sucks, too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to swear off driving.

[Winter Storm]

Are we actually using "Divorce sucks" as an argument against marriage?

Because being in a head-on collision with a semi sucks, too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to swear off driving.

Yeah, that is what is sounds like. And I think it is a big enough deterrent for many men. Many worry more about divorcing than the actual marriage, it seems.

[cheshrcarol]

First, I dont know what words may have told you but she didnt beat me up about anything. Anyway, basically your argument is that with stay-at-home parenting being a "job", you're owed some kind of severance pay for it. If its a family decision, and I disagree that the husband has to agree with it (whats he gonna do, MAKE her work? divorce her? well...), THEN sure cut her a check. But if its not a family decision, I think its junk. But then you come into the fold of what can you prove and who has the onus of proving how the stay-at-home situation came about? I've got no answers for that.

Also, what if the job she gets sucks? Is that the husband's fault too? What incentive is there to get a good job if he's footing the rest of the bill anyway? Not that it would always be the case that she works minimally b/c, well why not?...but when that scenario happens, then what? Still stinks, IMO.Unfortunately, what seems to be logical isn't always the law. I have an aunt who is extremely successful. Her husband, on the other hand has never been able to hold down a job for a long time. Some of it is that he's not from the US. He does speak English, and has a degree, but sometimes degrees earned in other countries are to translate into a BA/BS or whatever. I also think he just never had much motivation to need to work. She made so much money, and her career was what they moved for several times. At one point she even bought him a business to take over, and it just never went anywhere. There's so much he could do, his degree's in computer science, and he speaks several languages (including arabic) and lives in an area where that could have really made himself useful with that. Instead for most of the last 20 or so years, he's been a "house-husband".

Anyways, he started drinking a lot and their marriage fell apart and they decided to get divorced. Even though she didn't really have a choice about him not working, she still made more and had to pay HIM off with a large settlement, which she opted for instead of regular palimony.

[and1grad]

Unfortunately, what seems to be logical isn't always the law. I have an aunt who is extremely successful. Her husband, on the other hand has never been able to hold down a job for a long time. Some of it is that he's not from the US. He does speak English, and has a degree, but sometimes degrees earned in other countries are to translate into a BA/BS or whatever. I also think he just never had much motivation to need to work. She made so much money, and her career was what they moved for several times. At one point she even bought him a business to take over, and it just never went anywhere. There's so much he could do, his degree's in computer science, and he speaks several languages (including arabic) and lives in an area where that could have really made himself useful with that. Instead for most of the last 20 or so years, he's been a "house-husband".

Anyways, he started drinking a lot and their marriage fell apart and they decided to get divorced. Even though she didn't really have a choice about him not working, she still made more and had to pay HIM off with a large settlement, which she opted for instead of regular palimony.
See?? This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

[and1grad]

Are we actually using "Divorce sucks" as an argument against marriage?

Because being in a head-on collision with a semi sucks, too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to swear off driving.
By "we" do you mean me? Cuz I never said someone shouldnt get married. I just said be damn sure about it.

[wordsmith]

Yeah, that is what is sounds like. And I think it is a big enough deterrent for many men. Many worry more about divorcing than the actual marriage, it seems.

Which to me is pretty much the same thing as willing something to fail. And1 is talking about divorce like it's an inevitability.

[wordsmith]

By "we" do you mean me?

Well, you and the "humans were not made to be monogamous" camp.

[Winter Storm]

Unfortunately, what seems to be logical isn't always the law. I have an aunt who is extremely successful. Her husband, on the other hand has never been able to hold down a job for a long time. Some of it is that he's not from the US. He does speak English, and has a degree, but sometimes degrees earned in other countries are to translate into a BA/BS or whatever. I also think he just never had much motivation to need to work. She made so much money, and her career was what they moved for several times. At one point she even bought him a business to take over, and it just never went anywhere. There's so much he could do, his degree's in computer science, and he speaks several languages (including arabic) and lives in an area where that could have really made himself useful with that. Instead for most of the last 20 or so years, he's been a "house-husband".

Anyways, he started drinking a lot and their marriage fell apart and they decided to get divorced. Even though she didn't really have a choice about him not working, she still made more and had to pay HIM off with a large settlement, which she opted for instead of regular palimony.

See, I don't get that at all and not even if it were reverse and it were the man paying. I just looked up alimony and though I understand it, I don't. I guess I could see if the case were that one spouse had an affair or left the wife for another women or some sort of outright adultery or betrayal like that. But outside of those things, I dont understand why you have to give support after the marriage has ended. During, yes, but after? It just doesn't make sense to me.

[and1grad]

See, I don't get that at all and not even if it were reverse and it were the man paying. I just looked up alimony and though I understand it, I don't. I guess I could see if the case were that one spouse had an affair or left the wife for another women or some sort of outright adultery or betrayal like that. But outside of those things, I dont understand why you have to give support after the marriage has ended. During, yes, but after? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Careful!!! Thinking that way makes you of the "evil, want marriage to fail" camp. :googly:

[outside the box]

I apologize for mis-wording my previous post by using the word church, i should have said religion. And yes my tone was condescending, it was supposed to be. I have a viscious disapproval of herd mentality and even more dislike for the un-informed defense of it.

[Kitty]

I really don't understand alimony either. I know there's something about the person who's getting paid the alimony being accustomed to a certain lifestyle/level of income, and the alimony is to maintain that after the divorce - but why?? Can't they become accustomed to not having that much money anymore?

[and1grad]

I really don't understand alimony either. I know there's something about the person who's getting paid the alimony being accustomed to a certain lifestyle/level of income, and the alimony is to maintain that after the divorce - but why?? Can't they become accustomed to not having that much money anymore?
HALLELUJAH!! :huge:

[wordsmith]

I apologize for mis-wording my previous post by using the word church, i should have said religion. And yes my tone was condescending, it was supposed to be. I have a viscious disapproval of herd mentality and even more dislike for the un-informed defense of it

Funny...you're kind of preachy, for somebody who's anti-religion.

[wordsmith]

I really don't understand alimony either. I know there's something about the person who's getting paid the alimony being accustomed to a certain lifestyle/level of income, and the alimony is to maintain that after the divorce - but why?? Can't they become accustomed to not having that much money anymore?

I think I summed up my feelings earlier.

I think alimony is bullshit. I'll give you that.

[meatwad]

I really don't understand alimony either. I know there's something about the person who's getting paid the alimony being accustomed to a certain lifestyle/level of income, and the alimony is to maintain that after the divorce - but why?? Can't they become accustomed to not having that much money anymore?

No kidding. Then the person paying is not able to maintain that after divorce.

[Kitty]

I think I summed up my feelings earlier.


Sorry, I only scanned the pages and pages of this thread...

[wordsmith]

Sorry, I only scanned the pages and pages of this thread...

No sweat, I was just reposting it for and1's benefit.

[WorkInProgress]

First, I dont know what words may have told you but she didnt beat me up about anything. Anyway, basically your argument is that with stay-at-home parenting being a "job", you're owed some kind of severance pay for it. If its a family decision, and I disagree that the husband has to agree with it (whats he gonna do, MAKE her work? divorce her? well...), THEN sure cut her a check. But if its not a family decision, I think its junk. But then you come into the fold of what can you prove and who has the onus of proving how the stay-at-home situation came about? I've got no answers for that.

Also, what if the job she gets sucks? Is that the husband's fault too? What incentive is there to get a good job if he's footing the rest of the bill anyway? Not that it would always be the case that she works minimally b/c, well why not?...but when that scenario happens, then what? Still stinks, IMO.

Why wouldn't people talk about this (and, hopefully) agree on it before getting married? It's a big deal. And yeah, I think it's a family decision. I can't imagine how it wouldn't be. I can't imagine a husband announcing that his wife must stay home for the kids, and I can't imagine a wife just announcing that she's going to just up and quit. How would this possibly come as a surprise? And, assuming it does happen, I agree that the ex-wife shouldn't get any compensation, but her ex better be seeking counseling and/or filing for divorce quick, because how else would he possibly be able to say, "Hey, this was not team decision." If the ex-husband lets it go on for a long time, he is supporting the decision, IMO. (I think this might be one point where we don't agree.) And divorce in a case like this will still be expensive, for everyone.

I didn't say that any of it is the husband's fault. I do think that he should bear some of the responsibility, just as the wife should, since it was a joint decision. Perhaps, rather than having an indefinite monthly payment, or an indefinite annuity, it would be more fair to have an certain total amount of the settlement (and then maybe pay it down, or something). I'm just tossing out ideas here. I'm not sure that's the right answer though. I agree, the whole things sticks...for everyone invovled.

And people wonder why everyone has trust issues...so much could happen.

[and1grad]

Things change. Simple scenario: Mom/Dad loses job, decides not to work anymore...or maybe cant find a job. Now s/he's a stay-at-home; by decision, by circumstance...doesnt really matter, right? Either way, doesnt HAVE to be a joint decision.

[Winter Storm]

I think it would be best if it were a joint decision, but it isn't always.

When I was in middle school, my mother up and quit her job, without any notice to me or my father. She had had it and said she wasn't going back. She didn't work for over 2 years. She made the decision that my father made enough to pay the bills and that it would have to be enough.

It wasn't. Huge problems ensued. Now, hopefully there's was an exception and most people don't operate like this. But I saw my father get screwed over royally. Actually, we both got screwed. Lucky (or maybe unlucky) for him, they did not divorce. :googly:

[wordsmith]

My parents jointly decided my mom would stay at home when she started having kids. Then when my youngest sibling was in middle school, my dad TOLD my mom she HAD to go back to work and "start contributing." Sweet, huh?

So, joint decision to be a stay at home mom, not a joint decision to go back to work after about 18 years out of the workforce.

[and1grad]

So I guess its fair to say, discussion beforehand can be almost meaningless when different scenarios arise. Cant plan for some things.

[WorkInProgress]

Things change. Simple scenario: Mom/Dad loses job, decides not to work anymore...or maybe cant find a job. Now s/he's a stay-at-home; by decision, by circumstance...doesnt really matter, right? Either way, doesnt HAVE to be a joint decision.

Job loss, or the inability to find a job, in my view is part of the "for better or worse" agreement. "I just don't feel like it and too bad for you," is not, and it's childish, IMO. And, if I'm the other one, I'm not paying for it, and marriage counseling needs to begin ASAP.

Maybe I'm naive, then. I think I've found a new personal dealbreaker that I thought should have been obviously part of a marriage, but apparently, is not.

[Winter Storm]

So I guess its fair to say, discussion beforehand can be almost meaningless when different scenarios arise. Cant plan for some things.

Yeah and I think that is life.

Like with my co-worker. She and her husband agreed that he would stop working until he finishes his MBA and she would support the family during that time. Now, not only is he barely going to school but isn't caring for the child either. Actually expects her to pay for babysitters and the like so he can "focus on school". The love relationship has basically fallen to the floor and she was at the beginning of getting legally seperated when she found out she may have to pay him palimony since she was the sole supporter.

She's now quietly staying put until he either gets a job, leaves her or I don't know what. Can't image what dinner is like at their house. :eek:

[wordsmith]

Job loss, or the inability to find a job, in my view is part of the "for better or worse" agreement. "I just don't feel like it and too bad for you," is not, and it's childish, IMO. And, if I'm the other one, I'm not paying for it, and marriage counseling needs to begin ASAP.

Maybe I'm naive, then. I think I've found a new personal dealbreaker that I thought should have been obviously part of a marriage, but apparently, is not.

Fortunately (or unfortunately, maybe), I sincerely doubt I'd ever have the choice of staying home with kids, so the point is moot, for me, I'm thinking.

[WorkInProgress]

Yeah and I think that is life.

Like with my co-worker. She and her husband agreed that he would stop working until he finishes his MBA and she would support the family during that time. Now, not only is he barely going to school but isn't caring for the child either. Actually expects her to pay for babysitters and the like so he can "focus on school". The love relationship has basically fallen to the floor and she was at the beginning of getting legally seperated when she found out she may have to pay him palimony since she was the sole supporter.

She's now quietly staying put until he either gets a job, leaves her or I don't know what. Can't image what dinner is like at their house. :eek:

It's hearing about shit like this that scares me to no end. Because trusting is hard enough, but damn.

[CTGirl]

wow, this thread has gone sour!

Just to give an alternate viewpoint, my parents have been married nearly 30 years, have been through rough times, but have always made every decision together, and have never come anywhere close to divorce, and I would die of shock if they ever did.

I think the problem with all these cases people are citing here is that these people should not have gotten married in the first place. If you can't handle the day to day struggle together, you shouldnt be married.

[wordsmith]

Actually, my parents have been married 34 years, also never come close to divorce, and I'm not so sure they shouldn't have gotten married. They've had their struggles, and I'm DAMNED sure my dad shouldn't have told my mom that she wasn't contributing anything by spending 18 years raising for children, particularly when he had been in favor of it. But I'm still pretty sure they should have gotten married. They have a good marriage. Not a perfect marriage, but a strong one.

[CTGirl]

Actually, my parents have been married 34 years, also never come close to divorce, and I'm not so sure they shouldn't have gotten married. They've had their struggles, and I'm DAMNED sure my dad shouldn't have told my mom that she wasn't contributing anything by spending 18 years raising for children, particularly when he had been in favor of it. But I'm still pretty sure they should have gotten married. They have a good marriage. Not a perfect marriage, but a strong one.

I hope you don't think that I meant that couples who have problems shouldnt get married.

What I meant was that if those struggles are going to be worth more than the love for one another, and they tear the two people apart, then that is an indication that they probably shouldnt have gotten married, cuz their bond isnt strong enough to handle it. It doesnt sound like your parents fit that.

[dddork]

My parents have been married 25 yrs and they have had a really strong relationship.. Definitely many ups and downs.. but the struggle had paid off.. they are still in love.. my mom and dad didn't even speak to each other before getting married but after 25 yrs they are still going strong..

[wordsmith]

I agree. I was just responding because I'd provided one of the earlier examples.

[Kitty]

I still want to know what the actual benefit of marriage is. I don't really get it. I mean, yes, I want to be with one person for the rest of my life and grow old with them and enjoy life with them, blah blah...but how is marriage any different from the long-term, committed relationship? The only real difference I see is from a legal standpoint - which could be seen as a good or bad or both thing. I guess I also don't really know enough about the legalities of being married to know whether or not that's something I want.

[CTGirl]

I still want to know what the actual benefit of marriage is. I don't really get it. I mean, yes, I want to be with one person for the rest of my life and grow old with them and enjoy life with them, blah blah...but how is marriage any different from the long-term, committed relationship? The only real difference I see is from a legal standpoint - which could be seen as a good or bad or both thing. I guess I also don't really know enough about the legalities of being married to know whether or not that's something I want.

I agree. I think people make a big deal about it, but I see it as more of a formality that makes legal/financial stuff easier. I never understood why there's this stereotype that everything is supposedly totally different after you get married to the person, that seems strange to me.

[wordsmith]

The only real measurable benefits that aren't rooted in emotional desires/personal preferences ARE the legal ones.

[MetFanL]

I still want to know what the actual benefit of marriage is. I don't really get it. I mean, yes, I want to be with one person for the rest of my life and grow old with them and enjoy life with them, blah blah...but how is marriage any different from the long-term, committed relationship? The only real difference I see is from a legal standpoint - which could be seen as a good or bad or both thing. I guess I also don't really know enough about the legalities of being married to know whether or not that's something I want.
I think some of it is safety -- divorce is hard, so it's not an easy out. You can't just divide up the stuff and walk away. I also think, and this is the big part for me, the religious stuff is important. The proclaiming your love before God and family stuff.

[dddork]

I would disagree. I think "marriage" gives you the extra initiative of putting the effort of making THE relationship work!

[Kitty]

I think some of it is safety -- divorce is hard, so it's not an easy out.

I guess..but I think I'd rather have someone want to be with me as opposed to being with me because it's easier than divorce.

[Kitty]

I would disagree. I think "marriage" gives you the extra initiative of putting the effort of making THE relationship work!

Why wouldn't you have that same "initiative" with someone you've been with for years and invested a lot in emotionally?

[CTGirl]

I would disagree. I think "marriage" gives you the extra initiative of putting the effort of making THE relationship work!

Well that makes it seem like, "we've got to try to work this crap out now, cuz we went through all the trouble of getting married and all" as though you wouldnt want to work it out if it had happened before the ceremony occurred. Your feelings for the other person should be about the same before and after right? Maybe growing stronger over time, but not becuase of the ceremony.

[wordsmith]

Right...by that token, it makes marriage seem like it's a statement of "Now you CAN'T leave...without it being costly, difficult, and inconvenient, instead of just painful like a regular old breakup." I'm not really comfortable with looking at marriage that way.

[MetFanL]

I guess..but I think I'd rather have someone want to be with me as opposed to being with me because it's easier than divorce.
No, that's not what I meant, though. I meant that divorce isn't easy or fun, so by entering into a marriage, you know they've thought about it and really, truly want to spend their life with you... it's not just convenient.

[SmilesSoSweet]

I also think, and this is the big part for me, the religious stuff is important. The proclaiming your love before God and family stuff.

I agree too. I have no idea that if/when I do get married if that guy will be of the same faith as me. But I do want a ceremony in a church. Marriage is the next sacrament for me. I was baptized, received first communion and was also confirmed. So the sacrament of marriage would be next and I wouldn't want it any other way.

And the whole family thing too. I don't just want to live with someone I'm in a LTR with. I want to be married and have legit children.

My sister is perfectly fine if she doesn't get married and just lives with her current bf. But her bf doesn't want to live together before marriage because he has kids and doesn't want to live with someone who he's not married to and set that example. (It's a little tough to explain, but I see his point).

[Kitty]

No, that's not what I meant, though. I meant that divorce isn't easy or fun, so by entering into a marriage, you know they've thought about it and really, truly want to spend their life with you... it's not just convenient.

Hmm...I guess I don't need a marriage to come along and reaffirm that I want to be with someone for the rest of my life. I don't need it to there to mark that decision. The feeling will develop on it's own throughout the course of the relationship, and I'll come to that conclusion with or without a marriage.

This is really interesting though - I'm fascinated to see what marriage means to other people. I guess the benefits of marriage are what you and your partner believe it to be.

[Kitty]

I want to be married and have legit children.


I don't think two people have to be married to have a "legit" child. :rolleyes:

[wordsmith]

In the eyes of the Catholic church, they do. Which is, I assume, what SSS is talking about.

[SmilesSoSweet]

In the eyes of the Catholic church, they do. Which is, I assume, what SSS is talking about.

Yes, that's what I'm taking about. And that I see marriage as a sacrament within the Catholic church. Which is why I hope to be married in the church as well.

And to me having a child out of wedlock by CHOICE (as in I'm in a LTR and don't want to get married, but let's have children anyway) doesn't make any sense. I do know a lot of people who have gone this route, but it's just not for me.

[flesh_gordon]

I think that a marriage is a solid commitment to another person for the rest of your life. It's telling the rest of the world 'Hands off, he/she is mine'. (This isn't a Dominating/Ownership thing, just that they're taken)

Unfortunately... the divorce rate has created a mockery of marriage. I don't think it means as much to individuals as it once did.

[wordsmith]

Unfortunately... the divorce rate has created a mockery of marriage. I don't think it means as much to individuals as it once did.


I wonder how many people DO see marriage as basically permanent, anymore, and how many of us view it as something that may well be temporary. Obviously, current divorce rates and things like experiencing bad marriages an/or divorces from a child's point of view for sure play a role in perspective.

I honestly view it as basically permanent. I would divorce, make no mistake, in some circumstances, but they're pretty extreme (no way will I be abused or cheated on, no way will my children be abused). For the most part, I view divorce as giving up on a marriage, and I'm pretty dogged and stubborn and tend to NOT just let things go, so there has to be a damned ironclad good reason for giving up (those reasons do exist). But I have to say that I'd be willing to work through a lot before I'd go that route. I do know some people that are not into the working to preserve something...they figure if it's worthwhile, it shouldn't be that much work to make work. I'm of the "anything worthwhile is worth working to have" school of thought. I come from a family of long, solid marriages, by and large, so my examples have taught me a lot about the ups and downs and what kind of hard work really goes into making a marriage work. I don't have any illusions.

[WorkInProgress]

I wonder how many people DO see marriage as basically permanent, anymore, and how many of us view it as something that may well be temporary. Obviously, current divorce rates and things like experiencing bad marriages an/or divorces from a child's point of view for sure play a role in perspective.

I honestly view it as basically permanent. I would divorce, make no mistake, in some circumstances, but they're pretty extreme. For the most part, I view divorce as giving up on a marriage, and I'm pretty dogged and stubborn and tend to NOT just let things go, so there has to be a damned ironclad good reason for giving up. But I have to say that I'd be willing to work through a lot before I'd go that route. I do know some people that are not into the working to preserve something...they figure if it's worthwhile, it shouldn't be that much work to make work. I'm of the "anything worthwhile is worth working to have" school of thought. I come from a family of long, solid marriages, by and large, so my examples have taught me a lot about the ups and downs and what kind of hard work really goes into making a marriage work.

Basically, me too. Although I've seen some less than stellar marriages/relationships, too, which, at the very least, helped me figure out what I don't want. I may have some illusions (and apparently lost one more today), but I realize that it's awfully hard work sometimes, to maintain a marriage.

[Kitty]

hmm..I don't think anything is permanent in this world, so I doubt I'd have that view on marriages; maybe that's partly why I'm not so big on them. For me, the love and happiness has to be in the relationship if I'm going to spend my life with someone. If for some reason that fades or dies, I wouldn't stay in the marriage just because I made a vow to - just like I wouldn't stay in a relationship lacking those elements. For me, if the happiness and love are still there - I think you can work on almost anything a marriage might throw at you. But if you're more unhappy than happy and if you don't really love the person anymore...well..I don't see that working.

I guess it's nice to believe in the idea of "forever" and "always" - but, I know it doesn't always work out like that and sometimes it's totally out of your control.

[wordsmith]

I guess one thing for me that plays a role is that (and I realize I only have 30 years' experience to base this on, not a lifetime), I've actually never had love fade or die. True story. I've never fallen out of love, so it's hard for me to imagine stopping loving somebody. I'm betting that something like being abused would do it, though.

[Kitty]

I guess one thing for me that plays a role is that (and I realize I only have 30 years' experience to base this on, not a lifetime), I've actually never had love fade or die. True story. I've never fallen out of love, so it's hard for me to imagine stopping loving somebody. I'm betting that something like being abused would do it, though.

It could go the other way, though. Someone falling out of love with you..I wouldn't want that scenerio either.

[wordsmith]

It could go the other way, though. Someone falling out of love with you..I wouldn't want that scenerio either.

Definitely not. But I can only control me, and I'd very likely never seek a divorce, unless amazingly bad shit was going down. I like to think that I'd not pair off with somebody so unlike me that they would...but you're right, you do never know. But I'm just looking at MY view of marriage. I can't do much about a potential spouses but choose wisely and hope.

[Kitty]

Definitely not. But I can only control me, and I'd very likely never seek a divorce, unless amazingly bad shit was going down. I like to think that I'd not pair off with somebody so unlike me that they would...but you're right, you do never know. But I'm just looking at MY view of marriage. I can't do much about a potential spouses but choose wisely and hope.

Yeah, totally agree..which is why I have some doubt about the permanance of marriage - because there are things you can't control.

I guess I'll be a lot wiser on this topic once I've lived a lifetime...it really is hard to say how things are after years and years of marriage or being in a monogamous relationship. I'm basing everything off my 4 year relationships.

[wordsmith]

And I'm sure I base my concepts off the largely lifelong marriages I was raised with. In my family, I have one uncle who's been divorced (three times, so odds are, it's a matter of his poor judgment), but literally everyone else who is/was married is/was in their marriage for life.

[Kitty]

Oddly, I never really compare myself or my views on marriages to the marriages within my family.

ETA: Actually, that's not true. Most of my family is extremely religious (Catholic) and are absolutely against divorce - so, they stay in marraiges even if they're completely unhappy because that's what their belief is. I guess that's where some of my feelings/thoughts come from.

[SmilesSoSweet]

Oddly, I never really compare myself or my views on marriages to the marriages within my family.

ETA: Actually, that's not true. Most of my family is extremely religious (Catholic) and are absolutely against divorce - so, they stay in marraiges even if they're completely unhappy because that's what their belief is. I guess that's where some of my feelings/thoughts come from.

And that's the whole vow of "for better, for worse" comes to mind. You're supposed to work things out. Some married couples do. But some just feel that if things don't work out for whatever reason, a divorce is better. I also known of people who won't seek any help or put any effort in making their marriage work and just get divorce because they don't want to bother with the issues.

Now don't get me wrong, I think I would most likely get a divorce if there was any type of infidelity in my marriage even though divorce is "frowned" upon in the Catholic Church. I guess it just really depends.

In my extended family, most of my aunts and uncles are still married. I think there's only one aunt on my dad's side and one uncle on my mom's side that are divorced. And divorce isn't recognized in The Philippines either.

[The Stranger]

Are we actually using "Divorce sucks" as an argument against marriage? Because being in a head-on collision with a semi sucks, too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to swear off driving.

If 50% of all drives ended in crashes, I'm pretty sure that many, if not most, people would swear off driving.

Chances of getting into a wreck = not that big, chances of ended up in a divorce situation = pretty good.

[The Stranger]

I guess..but I think I'd rather have someone want to be with me as opposed to being with me because it's easier than divorce.

Thank you; I never thought I'd discover another person that had that same thought.

It seems like some couples stay married because it's the path of least resistance.

[lostindc]

So I'm trying to get an idea of what men here think of marriage.

I often see woman talking about their future marriage hopes and anticipating engagement and the like, but I rarely see or hear of men getting as excited about it or that it is something they are really looking forward to or really want.
So shed some light for me:

For the men on this board:
1) Do you see yourself getting married one day?
2) Are you looking forward to the prospect?
3) Do you ever envision your wedding day and the details of it (your groomsmen, where it will be, how your bride will look, music, etc)?
4) What do you think will be the best points of marriage?
5) What do you think will be the worst things?
6) Do you view marriage as something you definitely want someday or something that if it comes along cool, but if not, that's okay too?

And for the guys that know they definitely don't want to get married, could you explain why? And be honest. I really want to know what men think on this.


1. Potentially
2. Can't say
3. No - (but no parade of bridesmaids/groomsmen it seems so grade school ranking friends and family as such - adorable flower girl I could live with though)
4. Not having to deal with the dating scene
5. Being bossed around, always being at fault, always being wrong, and receiving the Jewish guilt treatment.
6 Only with the right person

[SunDevil]

I knew you were holding back! I was seriously surprised no one brought up the divorce/alimony/screwed-over effect. I'd think it would be the #1 fear. :rolleyes:

It was my #1 thing in the long list of worst parts of marriage.

You have to be worried about all of the laws in your state, and pay attention to them. For example, if you are married to a woman for 10 years and 1 day in California, she can get a divorce for no reason at all, and make the guy pay alimony until she dies or remarries. That would be A LOT of money if you got married young, you would basically be paying for her to date around and even live with another guy.

Now, it might be ok for a few years, if the divorce was the fault of the one that will be paying... and I've read in the book I am reading now (about a totally different topic) that 90% of divorces are instigated by women. Now, it might be because the men are abusive, cheaters, or drunk losers, but the large majority of time it is women who break it off.

---------------

On the other hand, I think my parents have the prefect relationship, but I have no clue if they have ever been close to divorce, and I'm not sure most kids would know. They tend to keep some things to themselves.

[ScottyTheBody]

If 50% of all drives ended in crashes, I'm pretty sure that many, if not most, people would swear off driving.

Chances of getting into a wreck = not that big, chances of ended up in a divorce situation = pretty good.

Actually, over a life time, you are pretty likely to get in at least one crash while driving.

[Winter Storm]

For example, if you are married to a woman for 10 years and 1 day in California, she can get a divorce for no reason at all, and make the guy pay alimony until she dies or remarries

That is absolutely ridiculous!

[outside the box]

Wordsmith, your wordplay is mildly amusing. At least you take the time to read my entire post.

[Bman120]

Let's see:

1) Possibly. At this point, I can't say I love the idea of making that kind of commitment but if I meet the right girl, I might go for it.

2) Somewhat. Again, making that kind of commitment is a bit disconcerting but it would be nice to see that special lady every night and spend the day knowing she'll be there.

3) Haven't given it a thought.

4) Best parts? Being with the most important person with my life, doing stuff with her and going to bed with her there.

5) Worst? loosing some freedom. My freedom to do what I want when I want which tends to be spur of the moment is very important and knowing that i'll have to give that up most if not all of the time will be tough. I can see myself willing to make that sacrifice for the right girl but still, the concept of it nags at me.

6) I view it as something I could do but its not a definite thing. "There are always possibilities".

[Deadend]

1)
Yes. Wether I want to or not, it just seems like the thing that would happen to a guy like me.

2)
Some days more than others.

3)
At other peoples wedding I often wonder what kind of speaches I'll hear at mine. I have friends that will make very good speaches though. That's about it though.

4)
Romance, blah blah blah.

5)
I think it probably won't provide as much stability as most people expect.

6)
I'm not going to answer that question like I'm-so-cool I don't really care. I do. But I'm not going to get married for the sake of getting married if I don't find the right person.

Truthfully, the reason I want to get married is because I'm a very goal-oriented person. I can't just drift along "having fun" and not caring about the future, honestly that headspace strikes me as almost infantile. Maybe I'm even attracted to the challenge of marriage.

[stonemonkey]

1)
Wether I want to or not, it just seems like the thing that would happen to a guy like me.


Wait, what's 'a guy like you'?

[wordsmith]

The "losing freedom" thing is interesting to me. The only "freedom" that I see marriage is automatically (in, uh, most cases) affecting is the freedom to date/sleep with other women. But I'm not a person who can really conceive of telling a spouse, "Um, you can and can't do this," all the time, in regard to standard activities. I'm wondering what all these freedoms are that are assumed to be given up?

[WorkInProgress]

The "losing freedom" thing is interesting to me. The only "freedom" that I see marriage is automatically (in, uh, most cases) affecting is the freedom to date/sleep with other women. But I'm not a person who can really conceive of telling a spouse, "Um, you can and can't do this," all the time, in regard to standard activities. I'm wondering what all these freedoms are that are assumed to be given up?

Maybe the freedom to just pick up and move? Maybe the freedom over his own money (in some cases--some people don't merge finances)? The freedom to just hang out with the guys because? The freedom over his own schedule (because it's considerate to check with the wife beforehand)?

[cache]

The "losing freedom" thing is interesting to me. The only "freedom" that I see marriage is automatically (in, uh, most cases) affecting is the freedom to date/sleep with other women. But I'm not a person who can really conceive of telling a spouse, "Um, you can and can't do this," all the time, in regard to standard activities. I'm wondering what all these freedoms are that are assumed to be given up?

While I don't think this way, I can give an example:

When I need to relax, I just jump in my car and drive. Sometimes, I'll drive for an hour or two, other times I will end up being gone for days and drive a 1,000 miles with no agenda, no map, no anything. And no one knows where I am other than "out driving". Sure, I've got my cell, but usually I keep it off and don't call people back while I am out. When I have a gf, I never blow anything off or just leave wiothout explaining it. But as a married man, can I really expect to be gone for days all by myself?

[wordsmith]

Maybe the freedom to just pick up and move? Maybe the freedom over his own money (in some cases--some people don't merge finances)? The freedom to just hang out with the guys because? The freedom over his own schedule (because it's considerate to check with the wife beforehand)?

Good points. I've actually considered the "freedom to pick up and move" thing, myself. I like the fact that my job decisions, taking a job elsewhere, etc. at this point only affect me, I don't have to worry about uprooting someone else. But at some point, I do think that that gets outweighed, because most of us don't spend our whole lives picking up and moving, anyway. We eventually settle out, at some point.

I have a problem with the coming and going as you please thing, because I don't see that checking in and letting a spouse know where you are, when to expect you back is a real infringement on freedom (I know a lot of guys, including my dad, do). I just see it as courtesy.

In any case, all these things are compromises...which might be a euphemism for "losing your freedom" to some. I look at it more as a trade, for the most part.

[WorkInProgress]

While I don't think this way, I can give an example:

When I need to relax, I just jump in my car and drive. Sometimes, I'll drive for an hour or two, other times I will end up being gone for days and drive a 1,000 miles with no agenda, no map, no anything. And no one knows where I am other than "out driving". Sure, I've got my cell, but usually I keep it off and don't call people back while I am out. When I have a gf, I never blow anything off or just leave wiothout explaining it. But as a married man, can I really expect to be gone for days all by myself?

Maybe. If the wife knows that this is part of the deal (and, maybe, if you agree to call her and let her know that you're not lying in a ditch somewhere). (And you don't suddenly get the urge to just drive for days when she's dealing with, say, a couple of kids who have the stomach flu. Because that is just not cool.)

[wordsmith]

Yeah, pretty situational.

I mean, are you blowing off work to just vanish? If so, that's going to cause concern for a spouse, obviously.

Are there kids? How will it affect them?

Is it a more than once in a while occurrence? That could get old, when there are people counting on you being around, if your regular method of relaxation is disappearing for days at a time. That's definitely a practice better suited to somebody who doesn't have a spouse and/or family counting on his presence.

Etc.