View Full Version : marriage and relationships amongst people of immgrnt/consvtve/mlticult bckgrnds
I got this topic from the QLC men and marriage thread. it was threadjacked but is now back on topic. anyway i hope this is a good title.
Winter Storm
10-02-2006, 09:00 PM
... anyway i hope this is a good title.
Well, if its not, it should definitely cover all bases. LOL :huge:
old_school_soul
10-02-2006, 10:17 PM
Are the vowel keys broken on your keyboard?
dengeist
10-02-2006, 10:57 PM
I'd like to solve the puzzle Pat!!!
Immigrant, Conservative, Multicultural backgrounds!!!!!!
dddork
10-02-2006, 11:29 PM
hypocrite.. lemme add that too..
Winter Storm
10-03-2006, 09:09 AM
I'd like to solve the puzzle Pat!!!
Immigrant, Conservative, Multicultural backgrounds!!!!!!
Damnit! I almost had it! :huge: :)
meanies! :mad: :huge:
well I tried to type out the words in full but I exceeded the maximum length allowed.
meatwad
10-03-2006, 10:20 AM
hypocrite.. lemme add that too..
It's spelled hypcrte.
g8ergal83
10-03-2006, 03:50 PM
i never read the other thread... i obviously know what it was about, but where is it going now? I'm american (whatever my background is - polish, irish, etc.) and my bf is from puerto rico, so that makes him an american, too. He's 2 1/2 generation though (i'll explain in a minute) so he's not the kind of guy who expects certain things from his gf whenever he wants them, and he doesnt view the woman as being the keeper of the house while he makes the money, etc. I say he's 2 1/2 generation because his dad is from PR, who had a son with his wife that died, and now my bf is his son with his 2nd wife. Its a long story and I'd rather not get into the rest of it. Anyway, he's the "perfect" man. He's loving, he helps me clean, he helps me with dinner, he supports me and what I want to do, he is very nice and loving to me and he is very VERY handsome. He's beautiful in the manly sense of the word. He's a guy's guy but he's also my guy. And he's even helping me learn spanish so I can talk to his mom :) (it was my idea to learn) and i guess we're a multi-cultural couple, but I dont think of us that way. I dont think of us setting any kind of example or making a statement (the way that some people think of white girls dating black guys, etc.) I just think of us as him and me. What else is there? :razz:
ok no serious responses. i guess the thread title was that bad or something.
crystal_dance
10-03-2006, 04:37 PM
my roommate is half black half cherokee indian and his girlfriend of 7 years (or is it 8) is white. they seem really good together.
the post above reminded me of my friend who is 2nd generation peurto rican and her boyfriend who's white. they've been together for like 7 years as well.
then there's me. i'm indian and my ex-girlfriend was a mixed race japanese canadian. Things didn't end because of race and if anything our varied cultural and racial backgrounds added alot of interesting experiences to our relationship.
i also briefly dated a brazilian, a turkish girl and a canadian.
are your parents fine with you marrying outside the tribe?
crystal_dance
10-03-2006, 05:11 PM
are your parents fine with you marrying outside the tribe?
They'll whine and groan for a bit, but they're used to my ways. I've been throwing curve balls at em for years now and my mom kind've expects it to happen. As long as the girl is a good person, they'll be alright with it. It's the "extended" family that'll give me trouble. My grandpa on my fathers side is sort of like the don of the family and he'll probably have a fit.
Honestly, I don't care. It's me that that has to live with the person for the rest of my life. Not them. I can't marry to keep other people happy. I do care about my parents and while they are a little conservative, they have better sense than to expect me to thing along the same lines as they do.
SmilesSoSweet
10-03-2006, 05:22 PM
They'll whine and groan for a bit, but they're used to my ways. I've been throwing curve balls at em for years now and my mom kind've expects it to happen. As long as the girl is a good person, they'll be alright with it. It's the "extended" family that'll give me trouble. My grandpa on my fathers side is sort of like the don of the family and he'll probably have a fit.
Honestly, I don't care. It's me that that has to live with the person for the rest of my life. Not them. I can't marry to keep other people happy. I do care about my parents and while they are a little conservative, they have better sense than to expect me to thing along the same lines as they do.
This is how my family is as well. And my grandpa (dad's dad) was also the don of the family. And I think if he was still alive he maybe a bit "disappointed" if his grandchildren didn't marry within our race.
My parents just want me to be happy and it really doesn't matter the guy's race, religion, job, etc. as long as the guy is a good person, and that I want to be with him, then that's all that should matter.
dddork
10-03-2006, 05:32 PM
My parents just want me to be happy and it really doesn't matter the guy's race, religion, job, etc. as long as the guy is a good person, and that I want to be with him, then that's all that should matter.
your parents should meet my parents and teach them a thing or two!
wordsmith
10-03-2006, 05:36 PM
This is how my family is as well. And my grandpa (dad's dad) was also the don of the family. And I think if he was still alive he maybe a bit "disappointed" if his grandchildren didn't marry within our race.
My grandfather (now deceased) would have had major issues with kids or grandkids not marrying within our race. And I'm white.
SmilesSoSweet
10-03-2006, 05:37 PM
your parents should meet my parents and teach them a thing or two!
Actually, my brother, sister, and I had a talk with our own parents and that's why they are like they are now.
wordsmith
10-03-2006, 06:43 PM
Okay, since my last post, this has been gnawing quietly in the corner of my brain, and I asked my friend, who is African, what he thought, and he suggested I ask on the thread...I hope I can ask this without causing offense or ruffling feathers, but here goes...
Crystal_Dance noted that his grandfather was like the family Don, and would have been upset with kids/grandkids marrying outside the tribe.
SmilesSoSweet said the same about her grandpa and his wishes that his grandkids would marry Filipino.
I thought (and posted), "My grandfather was like that, too."
Then I thought about it for a while while I went back to work. The thing is...Most of my life, I widely considered my grandfather to be a horrible racist, and think that his attitude that none of his family would marry anybody outside our race was a hideous manifestation of that racism. I still do think that. I don't think many would disagree.
I also think that not many would consider Indian or Filipino, or Asian or whatever parents to be racist for holding to the tradition of not marrying outside of ethnicity.
Which makes me wonder how that distinction works. In either case, the family patriarchs are basically saying, "Hey, we stick with our own kind." But it seems to me like it's far more socially acceptable, and even expected, in some cases, for non-anglo ethnicities to say this...white people saying it look horribly racist (I'm white and I think they look horribly racist).
It's hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that when you rule out an entire population of people based on really nothing but their ethnicity alone, that's somehow not acting in a racist manner. Whatever your ethnicity is.
Kitty
10-03-2006, 06:45 PM
I also think that not many would consider Indian or Filipino, or Asian or whatever parents to be racist for holding to the tradition of not marrying outside of ethnicity.
Really? I totally and completely think it's racist.
wordsmith
10-03-2006, 06:49 PM
I think that a lot of people probably see it as keeping with cultural values, though.
stonemonkey
10-03-2006, 06:51 PM
Racism is discrimination based purely on race. But discrimination itself is intrinsic to choosing a partner. The 'loophole' I guess is that if you discriminate based on physical appearance and cultural values, you effectively discriminate on race, even though that's not necessarily what you set out to do.
Kitty
10-03-2006, 06:52 PM
A lot of it is completely and totally racially based, though. I've seen it first hand. I grew up in a school that was extremely racially diverse. I saw/heard a lot of crap from friends about what their parents did and said. My best friend was first generation Chinese and her mom basically said, "If you date out of the race, I will be extremely disappointed, but if you do..it better be a white guy. If you bring a black guy home, you will be disowned."
wordsmith
10-03-2006, 06:54 PM
Racism is discrimination based purely on race.
But saying, as a Mongol hordesman (deliberately picked to keep it neutral, we don't have any Mongol hordesmen on the boards, do we?), "You, my child, may ONLY marry other Mongol hordespeople, because it is our culture to do so," that IS discrimination based purely upon race.
wordsmith
10-03-2006, 07:01 PM
A lot of it is completely and totally racially based, though. I've seen it first hand. I grew up in a school that was extremely racially diverse. I saw/heard a lot of crap from friends about what their parents did and said. My best friend was first generation Chinese and her mom basically said, "If you date out of the race, I will be extremely disappointed, but if you do..it better be a white guy. If you bring a black guy home, you will be disowned."
I grew up with some Pakistani kids in my small hometown, they were the only family of that ethnicity for probably 200 miles (the father was a doctor at our community hospital). So, obviously, when the kids got to dating age, there weren't any other Pakistani kids around. When the sole boy, who I was friends with, got to be 16-17, he wanted to date a white girl in his class, and was sneaking around to do it, and the ENTIRE family, mom and kids, were immediately shipped back to Pakistan by the father. B/C the girl was white. There WERE no other kids of their ethnicity.
SmilesSoSweet
10-03-2006, 07:06 PM
A lot of it is completely and totally racially based, though. I've seen it first hand. I grew up in a school that was extremely racially diverse. I saw/heard a lot of crap from friends about what their parents did and said. My best friend was first generation Chinese and her mom basically said, "If you date out of the race, I will be extremely disappointed, but if you do..it better be a white guy. If you bring a black guy home, you will be disowned."
Yes, I've gotten this too. I've had uncles tell me if you don't marry Filipino, then marry White, not Black. That comment I think is racist.
As for what wordsmith said:
Originally Posted by wordsmith
I also think that not many would consider Indian or Filipino, or Asian or whatever parents to be racist for holding to the tradition of not marrying outside of ethnicity.
I can see how this would be more cultural than racist, but the example that Kitty posted, I'd consider that to be racist than cultural.
stonemonkey
10-03-2006, 07:09 PM
"You, my child, may ONLY marry other Mongol hordespeople, because it is our culture to do so," that IS discrimination based purely upon race.
Then that would imply that racism itself is a cultural value.
wordsmith
10-03-2006, 07:10 PM
But isn't that what parents who say, "You can only marry other Indians" (for example) are saying?
Kitty
10-03-2006, 07:13 PM
Another thing I observed is that a lot of parents wanted their kid to marry/date someone who was both of the same race and maintained the cultural traditions, but the next best thing was to date someone who was at least the same race - that would still be better than dating someone outside the race. So, I think that is racist.
wordsmith
10-03-2006, 07:16 PM
This is sure to piss people off, but I'm gonna post it anyway...from aforementioned IM convo:
wordsmithjess (5:33:01 PM): I think that if you say, "People should stick to their own kind," that's racist.
wordsmithjess (5:33:44 PM): I think that if you make assumptions about a person with nothing to go on other than their race, that's racist.
wordsmithjess (5:34:34 PM): I think that if you determine that your child shouldn't marry somebody they want to marry because that person isn't the right color, that's racist.
wordsmithjess (5:34:49 PM): And I think saying "It's a cultural thing" is dressing it up.
SmilesSoSweet
10-03-2006, 07:20 PM
When I asked my mom about the whole marrying outside of our race thing, she basically said it was a big deal to our grandparents because then the children from the bi-racial marriage wouldn't be full Filipino. I guess from what I can gather from my grandpa's view is that he didn't want the Filipino bloodline to eventually disappear. He wanted his namesake to remain as "pure" as possible.
I can kind of see his point, but really that's when I throw in the whole, "then why are we living in the states, if you wanted me to marry someone who is also Filipino?"
And I think for me it would be easier to marry someone of the same faith if he wasn't of the same ethnicity. It's the whole marrying in the church thing with me too. Though a vast majority of Filipinos (both in the states and in The Philippines are Catholic).
Kitty
10-03-2006, 07:24 PM
wordsmithjess (5:34:49 PM): And I think saying "It's a cultural thing" is dressing it up.
I tend to agree. Which is why I posted about how it's usually ideal that they're both the same race and culture, but, next best thing is the same race.
wordsmith
10-03-2006, 07:25 PM
He wanted his namesake to remain as "pure" as possible.
I get that, but think about the atrocities that whites have committed throughout history in the supposed interest of keeping racial lines pure? The whole racial purity concept really kind of supports prejudice/racism.
(Wilma, I'm not picking on you...I've heard the racial purity argument before, I'm just making examples).
SmilesSoSweet
10-03-2006, 07:28 PM
I get that, but think about the atrocities that whites have committed throughout history in the supposed interest of keeping racial lines pure? The whole racial purity concept really kind of supports prejudice/racism.
(Wilma, I'm not picking on you...I've heard the racial purity argument before, I'm just making examples).
I totally get what you're saying. It's basically hypocritical saying that a person of a non-White race that wants to keep their lineage "pure" isn't being racist, but someone that is White and wants the same thing would be looked at as being racist.
Oh and I just notice that my parents, aunts, and uncles all married other Filipinos which means that all of my first cousins (I have about 17 on my dad's and 15 on my mom's) are full blooded Filipinos. Now with me and my cousins' generation, that's a different story. Most of my cousins that are married, married someone of a different race/religion.
and1grad
10-03-2006, 07:34 PM
Wow are you NOT doing a good job of making your fam seem anything but racist. I'm actually stunned that you used the word "pure."
stonemonkey
10-03-2006, 07:36 PM
Well yeah, if decisions are based purely on race and nothing else, then it's racist by definition. And people can get out of it just by citing physical appearance, because the two are inseparable.
SmilesSoSweet
10-03-2006, 07:52 PM
Wow are you NOT doing a good job of making your fam seem anything but racist. I'm actually stunned that you used the word "pure."
I was using that word in the way my grandfather used it.
it actually can be more complicated for Indians rather than just ethnicity. could be language(multiple languages spoken in India), caste, religion, geographic area in India which has to do with language .
dddork
10-04-2006, 01:50 AM
i'd stick to indians.. just coz i think indian girls are too damm fine.. some of them can be stuck up.. but its all worth it..
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