Guys' and Girls' Friends

[Winter Storm]

So I was talking to my guy last week and he mentioned how his current roommate and one of his closest friends once messed around with his girlfriend in high school. I mentioned how if something like that had happened with one of my good friends, we probably would never be friends again. He said with guys, it is different. They have a way of getting past those kinds of things. Somehow they squash them and remain friends.

So that got me thinking of how most guys I know have this inner circle of friends they've known for life. And no matter what crap has come down between them, they have managed to stay friends. Girls, on the other hand, seem to fall off for any reason. I know I'm not currently friends with hardly anyone from childhood, high school or college. Seems like for the tiniest reasons, we grow apart, stop talking for lose interest. My father at 60 years old, was still in touch and good friends with men he went to junior high with.
Obviously girls are much more catty but seems like we just can't maintain friendships like men do.

Another case in point, I had this best friend all throughout high school. As we got into out 20s she would often make plans with me, then stand me up. I eventually got sick of it and stopped calling. We haven't spoken in 5+ years. My ex had a best friend since birth, he would do the same thing, make plans, then not show, no call, no nothing. My ex overlooked it and they are probably still boys to this day?

Do men just let more things go, keeping with the 'bros before hoes' mentality? Are girls more strict about who they are friends with and just walk away more easily? Seems like every few years I get a new group of friends who all fall off eventually. The guys I know, keep their friends forever.

Your thoughts?

[CTGirl]

I definitely see what you're saying, and I think that's why most of my friends are guys.

No offense to the women on this board, but most women are just too much drama for me. Like you said, with guys, you can stand eachother up, you can not speak for years, and when you do reconnect, everything's just fine. There's a lot less pressure there, they tend to not take things so personally (there are exceptions of course).

[vivo]

hmm. brings to mind a female friend I have. it seems like she is always having trouble with friends every now and then. I don't really keep in touch with some male friends in college. also theres a really good friend in hs who I haven't seen since juniior yr of college and I don't even know where he is. well with the first group we don't alwsays have a lot to talk about conversationally but ZI suppose if we hung out more maybe it would be better or if we were playing computer games or something. come to think of it I don't remember ever really losing friends by fighting with them. hmmmmm. then again I am an oddball :huge: :redface:

[WorkInProgress]

I don't know. I think I don't know enough people to begin to make those observations on a macro level. On a micro level, I don't have the same experiences as you, WS.

I can see what you're saying, and I do pretty much "fit" the female friendship mold you've described (with some, and perhaps, most friendships), but individual circumstances vary. I think my lack of friends from my young childhood has more to do with other variables beside my gender. And time and distance apart don't keep me from being friends or maintaining the connection between my best friend and me.

My brother, more or less, has similar friendships to mine at this point. But we share several of the same variables that I think prevent the type of "from birth" friendships you described.

EDIT: Except for the friendships between us, and between us and our cousins who are our ages. Those we've had forever. Our parents and grandparents made a concerted effort to foster those relationships while we were growing up.

[wordsmith]

I've always had more guy friends than girl, but I'm pretty stereotypically girly...I'm emotional, thin skinned, and if you screw me over, that's it. I am loyal as the day is long unless you betray my trust, and then it's over, no going back. I have noticed that guys can screw one another over and go have beers, no hard feelings. Much as I enjoy hanging with the guys, I will never identify with that. If you seriously do something to damage the regard I held for you, it's over. That's it.

I don't agree that, in my personal experience, girls fall off friendships for any old reason. I really only abandon friendships where somebody's f*cked me over. It's not like, "Well, I'm just tired of YOU, sorry, see ya." I don't lose interest. If somebody's my friend, they're my friend unless they mess it up.

I'm loyal and will keep friends forever. My two closest friends have been my friends since the third grade. I also pull my load in keeping in touch when friends move far apart. I have friends from when I started college in 1995 who I still talk to on a nearly weekly basis, regardless of being sprinkled around the country, and if somebody's in town, damn sure I'm gonna make time to see them. I'm a good friend. But you have to be a good friend back. If you're a lousy friend, screw you. Reciprocity is everything.

I don't "let things go." I don't feel I, or anybody, should have to. "Friends" who think they can do rotten things to friends, and not be accountable don't deserve my time.




So I was talking to my guy last week and he mentioned how his current roommate and one of his closest friends once messed around with his girlfriend in high school. I mentioned how if something like that had happened with one of my good friends, we probably would never be friends again. He said with guys, it is different. They have a way of getting past those kinds of things. Somehow they squash them and remain friends.

So that got me thinking of how most guys I know have this inner circle of friends they've known for life. And no matter what crap has come down between them, they have managed to stay friends. Girls, on the other hand, seem to fall off for any reason. I know I'm not currently friends with hardly anyone from childhood, high school or college. Seems like for the tiniest reasons, we grow apart, stop talking for lose interest. My father at 60 years old, was still in touch and good friends with men he went to junior high with.
Obviously girls are much more catty but seems like we just can't maintain friendships like men do.

Another case in point, I had this best friend all throughout high school. As we got into out 20s she would often make plans with me, then stand me up. I eventually got sick of it and stopped calling. We haven't spoken in 5+ years. My ex had a best friend since birth, he would do the same thing, make plans, then not show, no call, no nothing. My ex overlooked it and they are probably still boys to this day?

Do men just let more things go, keeping with the 'bros before hoes' mentality? Are girls more strict about who they are friends with and just walk away more easily? Seems like every few years I get a new group of friends who all fall off eventually. The guys I know, keep their friends forever.

Your thoughts?

[Winter Storm]

I've always had more guy friends than girl, but I'm pretty stereotypically girly...I'm emotional, thin skinned, and if you screw me over, that's it. I am loyal as the day is long unless you betray my trust, and then it's over, no going back. I have noticed that guys can screw one another over and go have beers, no hard feelings. Much as I enjoy hanging with the guys, I will never identify with that. If you seriously do something to damage the regard I held for you, it's over. That's it.


Do you think guys may be able to let more go because they don't get all emotional about things. I know when my so-called friends begin standing me up, not returning calls or just blowing me off, it hurts and I don't value their friendship as much. So there is an emotional component.

[wordsmith]

I think guys are definitely more likely to get past emotional slights more easily. This is of course a generalization, but there's no way to really discuss this without resorting to generalizations.

As anybody who knows me well can tell you, if you hurt me badly, it doesn't go away. I've always said, I may forgive, but I will damned sure never forget, and I won't ever look at you the same. Trust is fragile.

[and1grad]

Do you think guys may be able to let more go because they don't get all emotional about things. I know when my so-called friends begin standing me up, not returning calls or just blowing me off, it hurts and I don't value their friendship as much. So there is an emotional component.
I think to a certain extent it IS that. Also, I think guys are just more likely to let shit go.

[wordsmith]

I think to a certain extent it IS that. Also, I think guys are just more likely to let shit go.

Out of curiosity, b/c I don't think this is an ucommon male stance...what would it take for you to NOT be able to let shit go? What are the limits on forgive and forget? Is there anything that would make you cut a friend off?

I knew I guy who didn't even sever ties with another guy even after the guy slept with his wife and broke up his marriage. That's unbelievable to me.

[LakeJay]

I think guys are more likely to call each other out on their bullshit and in the end it just becomes a joke.

[wordsmith]

I think guys are more likely to call each other out on their bullshit and in the end it just becomes a joke.

Also something I can't/won't do. It minimizes things that are really pretty serious hurts to turn them into jokes. One downside of being friends with guys is that they try to do this with me as a female friend, too. It takes some explaining to get across that, as far as I'm concerned, this is beyond not cool. Nothing will make me madder than somebody minimizing a serious upset and brushing it off as no big deal, or worse, a joke.

[weary]

I think guys are more likely to call each other out on their bullshit and in the end it just becomes a joke.

funny, i tend to think that a lot of guys don't hold eachother as accountable as girls do eachother. that seems to make it easier to let things go, IMO.

i don't lose a lot of GFs or keep a lot of GFs b/c i am incredibly selective about who i get close to/let get close to me and form very tight friendships. i can count on one hand the # of gals i am close to and that's fine with me. same for dudes i'm close to, on my next hand. i just don't take friendship lightly. not the 'A-list' friends anyway. B-, C-, and D-listers...whatever. they can drift in and out [of my life] as i/they please and i don't really give a shit. we're friendly, but not true friends. not trying to sound cold, but it is what it is.

[CTGirl]

I think guys are more likely to call each other out on their bullshit and in the end it just becomes a joke.

Yeah, I think that's a big part of it. With guys, I can just tell them they're being an ass about something, and we'll be done, but it's not always that simple with girls. Like I said, I think girls tend to take things personally more often than guys do.

[Winter Storm]

funny, i tend to think that a lot of guys don't hold eachother as accountable as girls do eachother. that seems to make it easier to let things go, IMO.


I think that has a lot to do with it. But I also think girls have a tendency to just get sick of each other. I can't count how many female friends I have had where for no reason at all, we just stop talking and stop being friends. It seems to start with a small annoyance and then snowballs into you realize, I can be without this person for good.

[weary]

i just thought about it and my closest/oldest GFs are from nursery school (yes, really), high school, college, and work. 1 each. ha!

close guy friends are from elementary are middle-school. i don't think i've trusted guys as friends since i was of age to date. hhhmmm....

[wordsmith]

funny, i tend to think that a lot of guys don't hold eachother as accountable as girls do eachother. that seems to make it easier to let things go, IMO.

Totally agree. Guys seem to let one another off the hook for a lot. I don't.

i don't lose a lot of GFs or keep a lot of GFs b/c i am incredibly selective about who i get close to/let get close to me and form very tight friendships. i can count on one hand the # of gals i am close to and that's fine with me. same for dudes i'm close to, on my next hand. i just don't take friendship lightly. not the 'A-list' friends anyway. B-, C-, and D-listers...whatever. they can drift in and out [of my life] as i/they please and i don't really give a shit. we're friendly, but not true friends. not trying to sound cold, but it is what it is.

Same, here, but I don't really have a B, C, or D list. If you don't make the A grade, meh. You're an acquaintance at best, not a friend. I'm pretty selective about my friends, though.

I think girls tend to take things personally more often than guys do.

Oh, I for SURE do. I'll never deny that. But a lot of things are MEANT personally, and thus, will be taken personally. You can't f*ck somebody over and say, "It's nothing personal." Well, you can, but it's BS.

[wordsmith]

close guy friends are from elementary are middle-school. i don't think i've trusted guys as friends since i was of age to date. hhhmmm....

My closest guy friends are mostly guys who are gay.

[vivo]

My closest guy friends are mostly guys who are gay.
not surprising of course.

[weary]

I think that has a lot to do with it. But I also think girls have a tendency to just get sick of each other. I can't count how many female friends I have had where for no reason at all, we just stop talking and stop being friends. It seems to start with a small annoyance and then snowballs into you realize, I can be without this person for good.

while i understand and have gone through this, i have also learned to adjust my expectations of certian friends and sometimes step back from the friendship a little bit to preserve it b/c it wasn't all bad, just not as tight as i would have liked it.

i have a very old friend who can get really annoying if i spend too much time with her, or even just talk to her too frequently. she NEVER SHUTS UP about men (and i may joke around, but i so CANNOT do the sit around and man-bash thing!) and how wronged she's been by them, she's chronically late (by HOURS) and she has a lot of self-image issues that require too much stroking for my taste. it made me NUTS. but she could be fun (in small doses) and there were other qualities she had that i did like.

so, i learned to not make plans with her unless they were loose and not significant (meet for drinks OK, take me to the airport for my flight NOT ok), and to see/talk to her a lot less so when i did it was fun and nice and we talked about other things simply b/c we were catching eachother up on our lives since last we talked. it works and i didn't have to hurt her by cutting her off or telling her about herself (which she totally wouldn't have gotten anyway, so it really would have just hurt her feelings).

i know, this sounds odd coming from someone who posted a big fat "I DON'T LIKE YOU" thread yesterday...but i do think it's important to be nice and work at relationships that have some value to you.

[WorkInProgress]

Do you think guys may be able to let more go because they don't get all emotional about things. I know when my so-called friends begin standing me up, not returning calls or just blowing me off, it hurts and I don't value their friendship as much. So there is an emotional component.

To me, it depends. I have some friends where we pick up right where we leave off, even if it's been a month or two. And others where I feel neglected (and I feel like I'm neglecting them) if it gets to feel like it's been too long.

[wordsmith]

not surprising of course.

Not surprising b/c it's me, or not surprising b/c gay guys have attributes that make them good candidates/solid friends for women (as long as they're generally nice people, at least, an ass is an ass regardless of orientation)?

[vivo]

Not surprising b/c it's me, or not surprising b/c gay guys have attributes that make them good candidates/solid friends for women (as long as they're generally nice people, at least, an ass is an ass regardless of orientation)?

good friends for women.

[weary]

i'm curious, do any of you (male or female) have friends or people you keep in contact with b/c you were friends as children but now knowing them now as the adult they've become you think "i'd probably never be friends with this person if i didn't already know them"?

i hope that made sense. i have a couple friends like that. we grew up together and are still in touch basically b/c either our parents are still friends, their siblings are friends with mine, or we keep in touch with the same circle of people. but sometimes i sit back and think, "there is no way in hell i'd be this chick's/dude's friend if i met them present-day." :googly:

[wordsmith]

I would agree. It's awesome to have a male friendship where you don't have to worry about one party getting romantic interest and the complications that arise from that.

[embrassezla]

My experience has been along the same lines as yours, Winter. My best friend from high school went to college with me, & we were roommates sophomore year. We had a real problem living together, and had a major falling out. Having mostly guy friends, I was talking about it with a couple of them, who didnt even particularly LIKE my friend, but they all said "Come on, it's you & Megs, you'll work it out!". I found out later that she had a similar convo with HER friends, all girls, and their advice was to forget about me & move in with them. I barely knew them, & they had NO reason to dislike me. Neither one of us had "wronged" the other - we'd just grown apart.

[wordsmith]

i'm curious, do any of you (male or female) have friends or people you keep in contact with b/c you were friends as children but now knowing them now as the adult they've become you think "i'd probably never be friends with this person if i didn't already know them"?


Most of my childhood friends fall in this category. We became friends due to proximity, not because we had tons in common, for the most part. We lived out in the country and rode the school bus together, or were in confirmation class togther, or sat in the same section for eight years in band, or whatever. But if I met them as adults, our personalities are different enough that we'd probably not naturally be drawn to one another. But in the cases where we are still friends, it's our shared history and common experiences that keep us united.

Then there are people who knew peripherally growing up (like my designer at work, who was a year behind me in high school, and whom I remember vaguely from then), who have grown into people I really, really hit it off with. So there's the flipside, too.

[Winter Storm]

i'm curious, do any of you (male or female) have friends or people you keep in contact with b/c you were friends as children but now knowing them now as the adult they've become you think "i'd probably never be friends with this person if i didn't already know them"?

I don't have any friends from childhood.

My oldest friend I did manage to reunite with a few years ago but where we were BFFs in 3rd grade, we're more acquaintances now that only talk once in a blue moon.

I find that unless I put the effort in to make constant contact with female friends, they easily fall off, almost every year. Right now, I'm trying hard to keep up things with the girls I met just one year ago. :googly:

[wordsmith]

My best friend from high school went to college with me, & we were roommates sophomore year. We had a real problem living together, and had a major falling out....Neither one of us had "wronged" the other - we'd just grown apart.

I actually know quite a few people for whom this was the case. When I was a college RA, I knew a bunch of people (girls mostly) who were childhood/hs good friends, came to college "together," and it didn't survive.

Then there's my brother, who went to the same college as his childhood best friend, lived with him all four years, had him as a groomsman in his wedding, and now he and his wife live a couple of miles from him and still hang out all the time.

[cache]

My mom and I are the same(opposite) in this regard:

She doesn't have many female friends because she believes women are too catty.

I don't have a many guy friends because I believe men are too competitive.

[and1grad]

funny, i tend to think that a lot of guys don't hold eachother as accountable as girls do eachother. that seems to make it easier to let things go, IMO.
What!?!? We dont hold each other as accountable? Thats crazy. Letting someone off the hook for something doesnt mean you dont hold them accountable. Thats insulting. After a while, you just have to let some things go and what those things are vary from person to person. If we want to throw around stuff like this, well maybe guys are just better at being friends than girls are.

[LaFille]

As anybody who knows me well can tell you, if you hurt me badly, it doesn't go away. I've always said, I may forgive, but I will damned sure never forget, and I won't ever look at you the same. Trust is fragile.

are you a taurus, wordsmith?

personally, i think guys call each other out on shit before it becomes a problem, whereas women want to be less controversial, and bury things until they become unbearable. a guy will say 'dude, that was fucked up when you did ________.' and then they hash it out then and there. i mean i know guys who have gotten into PHYSICAL fights and remain friends!

i can't imagine my best friend ever pissing me off, but we have an agreement to tell each other if that ever happens and figure it out then and there. when you don't deal with it, it becomes unbearable, and EVERY thing the person you are angry with does starts to piss you off irrationally.

[Winter Storm]

personally, i think guys call each other out on shit before it becomes a problem, whereas women want to be less controversial, and bury things until they become unbearable. a guy will say 'dude, that was fucked up when you did ________.' and then they hash it out then and there. i mean i know guys who have gotten into PHYSICAL fights and remain friends!


See, I've had the opposite experience. I see more guys that just shrug things off without confronting anything, even when it was kinda big. Meanwhile, I get into a tiff with a girlfriend seems like every month. Every little thing is a big deal and a reason to stop being friends. I find female friendships to be so delicate!

[wordsmith]

are you a taurus, wordsmith?

Nope, aquarius.

[LaFille]

Nope, aquarius.

my bad. it's supposed to be a taurean quality, and i totally fit the bill. not that i buy into that stuff :rolleyes:

[weary]

What!?!? We dont hold each other as accountable? Thats crazy. Letting someone off the hook for something doesnt mean you dont hold them accountable. Thats insulting. After a while, you just have to let some things go and what those things are vary from person to person. If we want to throw around stuff like this, well maybe guys are just better at being friends than girls are.

call it what you want to. letting someone off the hook and not holding them accountable are the same thing to me. i'm not trying to be insulting, i'm speaking from my experience. i have seen instances where, like someone else posted, a dude has remained friends with his guy friend who slept with his SO behind his back and broke them up, but never spoke to the chick again. WTF kind of shit is THAT? i'm not saying this is true for all men across the board, but in my experiences, i've just seen a lot more men not hold their boy's accountable where i think most women that i know would.

and really, i don't think guys OR girls are better at being friends. i really think most PEOPLE suck at being good friends. humans are pretty selfish.

[WorkInProgress]

and really, i don't think guys OR girls are better at being friends. i really think most PEOPLE suck at being good friends. humans are pretty selfish.

I agree with this.

[CTGirl]

my bad. it's supposed to be a taurean quality, and i totally fit the bill. not that i buy into that stuff :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's clearly not all that accurate, cuz I'm an aquarius too, and me and wordsmith are very different on this issue

[LaFille]

and really, i don't think guys OR girls are better at being friends. i really think most PEOPLE suck at being good friends. humans are pretty selfish.

lol, you know, i agree. we need to be more like dogs. loyal, affectionate and always up for a good time.

[wordsmith]

call it what you want to. letting someone off the hook and not holding them accountable are the same thing to me.

Me, too, really.

and really, i don't think guys OR girls are better at being friends. i really think most PEOPLE suck at being good friends. humans are pretty selfish.

Wholeheartedly agree. Most people are just really bad at the what I consider to be true friendship. That's why I'm so picky about who I call friends.

[weary]

my bad. it's supposed to be a taurean quality, and i totally fit the bill. not that i buy into that stuff :rolleyes:

ha ha LF...my mom's a taurus and she damn sure fits the bill. she's still pissed/hurt about some shit that happened before i was ever a thought in her mind and i'm 30 damn years old! the person who crossed her is rarely ever mentioned and it's like, "she-who-shall-not-be-named". :eek:

[weary]

lol, you know, i agree. we need to be more like dogs. loyal, affectionate and always up for a good time.

LOL, LF! i had an ex describe me like that to someone almost verbatim! i responded, "WTF? am in your girl or your damn dog?!"
:razz: it wasn't funny to me at the time, but i can see the humor (and even the compliment) in it now.

[wordsmith]

I also have had that said. :redface:

[LaFille]

LOL, LF! i had an ex describe me like that to someone almost verbatim! i responded, "WTF? am in your girl or your damn dog?!"
:razz: it wasn't funny to me at the time, but i can see the humor (and even the compliment) in it now.

oh, a huge compliment. if i could find a friend like my dog i'd be in heaven. he's awesome!

[WorkInProgress]

Letting someone off the hook for something doesnt mean you dont hold them accountable. Thats insulting. After a while, you just have to let some things go and what those things are vary from person to person. If we want to throw around stuff like this, well maybe guys are just better at being friends than girls are.

I agree that sometimes in a friendship you have to let some things go, and that some things aren't worth creating loads of drama or cancelling a friendship.

I think that some things are worth it, though.

And I don't understand what you mean about the difference between letting somebody off the hook and not holding them accountable. Is it a cooling down period in the friendhips and then things are back to normal afterwards? Perhaps I'm being obtuse, but I don't get it.

[wordsmith]

I agree that sometimes in a friendship you have to let some things go, and that some things aren't worth creating loads of drama or cancelling a friendship.

Totally, not every minor annoyance is worth making an issue.

I think that some things are worth it, though.

Absolutely, and that's what I'm talking about...disloyalty, lying, deception, disregard for the feelings of others. I have standards for what I do and don't accept from friends, and those don't make the "acceptable" cut.

[Winter Storm]

I just know that if a friend of mine had slept with a boyfriend of mine, I highly doubt I could bury that hatchet. Ever.

[WorkInProgress]

I just know that if a friend of mine had slept with a boyfriend of mine, I highly doubt I could bury that hatchet. Ever.

Maybe after I whack her with it. ;)

[weary]

oh, a huge compliment. if i could find a friend like my dog i'd be in heaven. he's awesome!


i'll be your friend but i'm not bringing you your slippers and if you scratch my stomach or try to tie a leash around my neck we will have a problem! :p

[wordsmith]

I just know that if a friend of mine had slept with a boyfriend of mine, I highly doubt I could bury that hatchet. Ever.

No FREAKING WAY would that be happening.

[MetFanL]

What!?!? We dont hold each other as accountable? Thats crazy. Letting someone off the hook for something doesnt mean you dont hold them accountable. Thats insulting. After a while, you just have to let some things go and what those things are vary from person to person. If we want to throw around stuff like this, well maybe guys are just better at being friends than girls are.
You know what I think? I think guys friendships last longer b/c they talk less. If a friendship lasts XXX,XXX amount of words, guys are gonna take longer to get there. They are less likely to argue (unless it's over PS2 or sports) b/c they're talking to each other less. And, when they're physically together, they're DOING stuff, not just hanging around chatting over a bottle of wine.

How's that for a generalization?

However, I think in a sick way, it's totally a valid point. It's the amount of talking. Seriously.

[weary]

I just know that if a friend of mine had slept with a boyfriend of mine, I highly doubt I could bury that hatchet. Ever.

i'm SAYIN'!

i'm trying to beat BOTH THEY ASSES!

[and1grad]

call it what you want to. letting someone off the hook and not holding them accountable are the same thing to me.
That just doesnt make any sense to me. That means you never let people off the hook for anything if you ever hold them accountable. I hold people accountable for a lot and at a high standard. Some things you just gotta let go.

Also, isnt this whole slept with someone else's whatever kind of an extreme example? Dont tell me this is common also. I'm starting to wonder who yall know.

[wordsmith]

i'm SAYIN'!

i'm trying to beat BOTH THEY ASSES!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

[WorkInProgress]

You know what I think? I think guys friendships last longer b/c they talk less. If a friendship lasts XXX,XXX amount of words, guys are gonna take longer to get there. They are less likely to argue (unless it's over PS2 or sports) b/c they're talking to each other less. And, when they're physically together, they're DOING stuff, not just hanging around chatting over a bottle of wine.

How's that for a generalization?

However, I think in a sick way, it's totally a valid point. It's the amount of talking. Seriously.

Sometimes I wonder if you're right about that. Don't know.

This concept reminds me of Anne in Anne of Green Gables taking long strides because she believed that a person only has a certain number of steps in their lifetime.

[WorkInProgress]

That just doesnt make any sense to me. That means you never let people off the hook for anything if you ever hold them accountable. I hold people accountable for a lot and at a high standard. Some things you just gotta let go.

Like I said, I agree with the something having to let go business. But, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE between the two? I still don't know what you mean.

[weary]

That just doesnt make any sense to me. That means you never let people off the hook for anything if you ever hold them accountable. I hold people accountable for a lot and at a high standard. Some things you just gotta let go.

Also, isnt this whole slept with someone else's whatever kind of an extreme example? Dont tell me this is common also. I'm starting to wonder who yall know.

no, it doesn't. not to me. you can hold someone accountable and not make it the end all be all.

the example - sure, it's extreme. unfortunately, it's rather common. (read: most humans are selfish.) you want a simpler example? um, let's see...

my GF is supposed to pick me up at 9 to go out. she shows up at 10:15; no call to say she's late...nothing. [and yes, she has a cell phone on her and it's working.] i rip her a new one, she apologizes and we're over it. if i still feel up to it, we go out. if i've already put my jammies on and am over going out, i offer her a glass of wine and to stay in w/ me or she can go on w/o me. it's her call. little bit of harm, but no foul. friendship is fine. make sense?

[and1grad]

my GF is supposed to pick me up at 9 to go out. she shows up at 10:15; no call to say she's late...nothing. [and yes, she has a cell phone on her and it's working.] i rip her a new one, she apologizes and we're over it. if i still feel up to it, we go out. if i've already put my jammies on and am over going out, i offer her a glass of wine and to stay in w/ me or she can go on w/o me. it's her call. little bit of harm, but no foul. friendship is fine. make sense?
Thats my point exactly. So why this junk about guys not holding each other accountable? You ripped your friend a new one b/c you held her accountable and you let it go b/c it wasnt worth not letting it go.

WorkIn, I'm not seeing how you dont see the difference.

[weary]

Thats my point exactly. So why this junk about guys not holding each other accountable? You ripped your friend a new one b/c you held her accountable and you let it go b/c it wasnt worth not letting it go.

WorkIn, I'm not seeing how you dont see the difference.

okay, i get it. it's just semantics. we're saying the same thing, just differently. yeah...i held her accountable, but not like a grudge or making it into some long-term big-deal. so i essentially "let her off the hook" too, to use your terminology. but i didn't jump up and out the door when she showed up either like it didn't matter that her ass was over and hour late w/o even acknowledging it.

but my "junk" about guys is just that. i've seen plenty of dudes, on the lesser side of the spectrum, just jump up and go. it's no problem that their boy is that late and didn't call and didn't apologize or anything. and we've already talked about the more extreme example so i'm not going to go over that again. where is the accountability - little or small?

[WorkInProgress]

WorkIn, I'm not seeing how you dont see the difference.

Truly, I'm not. I think it's the terminology. I suspect I grasp the concepts you're meaning to convey and would smack my own forehead for not getting it. But it's not worth dragging this out anymore. It's a Friday afternoon and my brain is fried.

[wordsmith]

There's no way you're going to convince most guys that things that many of us will get upset about aren't small potatoes and pointless to be upset about, therefore completely discounting them, so this discussion is moot.

[Winter Storm]

but my "junk" about guys is just that. i've seen plenty of dudes, on the lesser side of the spectrum, just jump up and go. it's no problem that their boy is that late and didn't call and didn't apologize or anything. and we've already talked about the more extreme example so i'm not going to go over that again. where is the accountability - little or small?

Yeah, that is what I was getting at. When my ex's friend would stand him up, he would just drop it and next time he saw him, it was forgotten about, he'd never say anything to him about it. It was just automatically squashed.

[weary]

Yeah, that is what I was getting at. When my ex's friend would stand him up, he would just drop it and next time he saw him, it was forgotten about, he'd never say anything to him about it. It was just automatically squashed.

hmpfh! stand my ass up and it ain't squashed at all. no siree! you best be apologizing and it might be awhile before i make plans with you again, if at all.

i'm the girl that calls to make sure you're alive and nothing bad happened, then procedes to curse you out once i know that you're o-k and were just being an inconsiderate ass.

[Winter Storm]

hmpfh! stand my ass up and it ain't squashed at all. no siree! you best be apologizing and it might be awhile before i make plans with you again, if at all.


Exactly. Sounds like your response is more typical of girls I know while the guys shrug and go 'eh'. Wish I could be more cavalier but then I feel stomped on.

Being a chick can be so much more complicated sometimes. :rolleyes:

[and1grad]

but my "junk" about guys is just that. i've seen plenty of dudes, on the lesser side of the spectrum, just jump up and go. it's no problem that their boy is that late and didn't call and didn't apologize or anything. and we've already talked about the more extreme example so i'm not going to go over that again. where is the accountability - little or small?
I've never come across that...but I do think its funny that wordsmith isnt willing to argue something. Now THATS out of the ordinary. :evil: :lol:

[weary]

Exactly. Sounds like your response is more typical of girls I know while the guys shrug and go 'eh'. Wish I could be more cavalier but then I feel stomped on.

Being a chick can be so much more complicated sometimes. :rolleyes:

it's all aretha and jay-z's faults.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T me!

:huge:

[Winter Storm]

Ok, here's another question (for everybody): How many times in your life have you had someone you call a good friend suddenly stop speaking to you, for whatever reason?

I know I can say I've had tons, mostly females and most of my female friends can say the same. Seems as if girls as just more fickle? Are men anywhere near as fickle?

[WorkInProgress]

Ok, here's another question (for everybody): How many times in your life have you had someone you call a good friend suddenly stop speaking to you, for whatever reason?

I know I can say I've had tons, mostly females and most of my female friends can say the same. Seems as if girls as just more fickle? Are men anywhere near as fickle?

For me, it's probably close to an even split. Most of my close friends in HS were guys, and I don't talk to them any more than I do to some of my close friends from the early days of college, who happen to be mostly female. And, I stopped talking to them too (not generally a "we're breaking up as friends" thing, but a general drifting apart thing), so it's not like I was abandoned (generally speaking).

[and1grad]

I think girls ARE just more fickle. :)

[wordsmith]

I've never come across that...but I do think its funny that wordsmith isnt willing to argue something. Now THATS out of the ordinary. :evil: :lol:

I was out taking a picture. Ass. Check your IMs for my arguments.

[wordsmith]

I think girls ARE just more fickle. :)

No. Girls just don't smooth over slights like they didn't happen.

[Winter Storm]

I think girls ARE just more fickle. :)

Seriously, I can't tell you how many "best friends" I've had in my life and how many girls who I was really tight with, just decided one day to never speak to me again. Just like that, and without an incidence, the friendship was over.

[and1grad]

I was out taking a picture. Ass. Check your IMs for my arguments.
See what I mean...with the name calling and all that. Just fickle. Yall dont know how this girl abuses me sometimes. :cry: :lol:

[weary]

Ok, here's another question (for everybody): How many times in your life have you had someone you call a good friend suddenly stop speaking to you, for whatever reason?

I know I can say I've had tons, mostly females and most of my female friends can say the same. Seems as if girls as just more fickle? Are men anywhere near as fickle?

really? i don't see how this just happens like that so much. i mean, not a slow drifting...just WHAM, get the ax? i dunno...

i can think of only 2 in my life and one time i moved away and didn't bother to try to keep up the friendship nor did she. the other time, this other chick moved away and i thought we had just lost track of eachother until our mothers ran into one another and gave each our new information (i had moved by that time too). i emailed and called and she never replied. i seriously doubt her mom was giving out bogus info so i have to believe that the girl just didn't want to talk to me for whatever reason.

but those both involved moves and changing circumstances. i can't imagine it happening just out of the blue.

[The X]

I can forgive people if they say they're sorry, but that's impossible for most people to do.

[weary]

I think girls ARE just more fickle. :)

call it what you want to. i say girls ARE just more interesting. :p

[Brillo25]

Well, to this point I've kept just about all my male friendships all the way back to school. But fairly recently I decided to tell a female friend what I thought about some things she was doing, and admittedly got too pissy about it because I was just in that kind of mood. And that was that. She cut off all communication, no second chances. With any male friends, I'm sure we would have smoothed that over.

[Winter Storm]

really? i don't see how this just happens like that so much. i mean, not a slow drifting...just WHAM, get the ax? i dunno...

...but those both involved moves and changing circumstances. i can't imagine it happening just out of the blue.

Yeah but this was in my younger days, middle school, high school, college. Or maybe I've just known too many shitty, bitchy people.

[and1grad]

call it what you want to. i say girls ARE just more interesting. :p
Ha! Depending on what you mean by interesting, I MIGHT be able to live with that. ;)
Or maybe I've just known too many shitty, bitchy people.
By people, you mean women, right? :evil:

[cache]

Some time ago, there was this guy that used to always hang out with my friends and I. You didn't have to call or have plans, he would figure it out - either by driving around or hanging outside people's apartment. But he was a pretty cool guy, and we didn't really realize he was doing this at first.

But once we did, we wrote down a phase out plan with specific instructions on how everyone would stop talking to him, and use decoys so he wouldn't know where we were.

...it actually worked....then we turned 20 and learned the mature way to deal with stuff like this.

[wordsmith]

I can forgive people if they say they're sorry, but that's impossible for most people to do.

Forgive, sure, forget, nope.

I can realize you didn't mean to do whatever and/or are sorry you did it.

Trust you not to do it again (and again, and again)? No way.

[wordsmith]

Some time ago, there was this guy that used to always hang out with my friends and I. You didn't have to call or have plans, he would figure it out - either by driving around or hanging outside people's apartment. But he was a pretty cool guy, and we didn't really realize he was doing this at first.

But once we did, we wrote down a phase out plan with specific instructions on how everyone would stop talking to him, and use decoys so he wouldn't know where we were.

...it actually worked....then we turned 20 and learned the mature way to deal with stuff like this.

What? I'm not getting this.

[CTGirl]

Some time ago, there was this guy that used to always hang out with my friends and I. You didn't have to call or have plans, he would figure it out - either by driving around or hanging outside people's apartment. But he was a pretty cool guy, and we didn't really realize he was doing this at first.

But once we did, we wrote down a phase out plan with specific instructions on how everyone would stop talking to him, and use decoys so he wouldn't know where we were.

...it actually worked....then we turned 20 and learned the mature way to deal with stuff like this.

lol, I've known dudes like this. If I ever talked to my creepy neighbor, I'm sure he'd do this too, he's one creepy dude (comes up to my windows to talk to my cats!). Poor crazy creepy people who have to stalk people to try and make friends.......

[WorkInProgress]

really? i don't see how this just happens like that so much. i mean, not a slow drifting...just WHAM, get the ax?

See, the WHAM, WE ARE NOT FRIENDS ANYMORE I AM CUTTING YOU OFF has happened on one occasion with 3 people (a small group). And it wasn't a massive fight, but rather a total freeze out. Of the I'm going to pretend that you don't exist sort. It worked out. They froze me. I froze them. If we see each other ever, it's a mutual pretense of non-existence. Unless we have some business to conduct, in which case it's civil, but nothing more. I've gotten over the bitterness, and feel indifferent now (which is good, because it's been several years).

This was a very exceptional case involving malicious, intentional, planned betrayal. I cannot imagine doing this except in extreme circumstances.

[coll214]

Some of the friends I have now i've known since about 8th, 9th grade. I'm sure twenty years from now, regardless of where we live we'll still be friends. We have our moments of cattiness, but everyone does from time to time. And a couple of them i've had some pretty nasty arguments with, but we know when to back away and cool things down, or just not talk for a few days. And two of them who I NEVER thought would talk again (let's just say a dude was involved) have since patched things up; but honestly i think it's more just b/c they've known each other for so long.

OTOH, I have had friends that have just fallen off the planet. Here one day and gone the next. and found out through the grapevine that they had just decided not to talk to me :googly:. Ha, their loss.

As for the guys I know, I've seen some that actually do let life long friendships die after an incident that never even happened! one accused the other and POOF! friendship over. For some reason neither one liked it when i said they were acting like a couple of women :rolleyes:, and being overly sensitive.

[cache]

What? I'm not getting this.

We knew this guy from HS, and he was an OK guy. When we were home for summer one year, he started hanging out with us all the time...probably because we were often over a friends apartment partying, and one time he had shown up with a friend of a friend who was invited. After that, he just started hanging out, and it was OK, at that time there was always a crowd. But when we started noticing the coincidences - like him parked outside my friends apartment as we left. Or he would call and leave a message, then a few minutes there would be a knock at the door, etc. When we started paying attention, we realized how creepy it was, but by this time he had been hanging out with us for over a month every day pretty much, so we couldn't just cut him out, we decided on a planned phase out so we would look more innocent than actively telling him he was creepy.,,,but like I said, we were all about 19, so it wasn't the best way to go about things...

[wordsmith]

Okay, I guess I just wasn't reading how that tied into how men and women have different levels of expectations of their friends, and will overlook different things. But now I (sort of?) get it.

[old_school_soul]

This is likely why men rule the world. Because we aren't nearly as fickle and catty as women. Now if women got along with each other and didn't stab each other in the back, it would be a different world.

[wordsmith]

I take exception to this.

I don't think I've done much backstabbing in my day, and I'm certainly not fickle.

I absolutely will own up to my stereotypically feminine characteristics, which include being extremely thin-skinned and taking things to heart and very personally, and yes, I will cut you off if you hurt me. But I don't backstab, and I'm not fickle. If I cut you off, it's because you gouged me first.

[weary]

This is likely why men rule the world. Because we aren't nearly as fickle and catty as women. Now if women got along with each other and didn't stab each other in the back, it would be a different world.

it could also be said that men rule b/c women don't tend to pillage and rape and kill in order to take over things that aren't theirs in the first place.

just sayin'...

[WorkInProgress]

This is likely why men rule the world. Because we aren't nearly as fickle and catty as women. Now if women got along with each other and didn't stab each other in the back, it would be a different world.

Please...look at any history of any Court, and you'll see that's not the case. Intrigue abounds, and as far as I've been able to see, always has. And it's not just women doing the conspiring, planning, betraying, etc.

[wordsmith]

Machiavelli being the consummate backstabber and not female and all.

[cache]

Okay, I guess I just wasn't reading how that tied into how men and women have different levels of expectations of their friends, and will overlook different things. But now I (sort of?) get it.

Someone mentioned about cutting out friends with a clean, instant break and that's what I was talking about. Sorry for the confuision...or the weak correlation.

[old_school_soul]

it could also be said that men rule b/c women don't tend to pillage and rape and kill in order to take over things that aren't theirs in the first place.

just sayin'...

You make seem so simple. Testicles make us do bad things. :twisted:

[weary]

You make seem so simple. Testicles make us do bad things. :twisted:

well if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
:p
(sorry! i couldn't resist!)

[SunnyCee]

i'm curious, do any of you (male or female) have friends or people you keep in contact with b/c you were friends as children but now knowing them now as the adult they've become you think "i'd probably never be friends with this person if i didn't already know them"?


I have people like that. Only a few, really, but one of them was in my circle of best friends back in high school. Yet, when it comes down to it, I would still do anything for her, and I know she feels the same way. We may not have much in common anymore, or even relate (sometimes in our conversations, I hear myself speaking and wonder, is this even me talking?)

All of these people are friends from middle school/high school, and even though we graduated four years ago, there's something there that I can't totally let go of. I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing.