Settling.... [Archive] - QLC Message Boards

spiritedaway

10-23-2006, 01:36 AM

Recently, I told a guy friend gently that I am not interested in him as more than friends. I normally won't say anything but his hinting has gone on for some time, and I didn't want to hurt him or lead him on precisly because he IS a good friend. He treats me well, and as much as I WANT to like him that way, I really just didn't feel any physical attraction or spark.

So I got back from a friend's wedding tonight, and it was so nice to celebrate the marriage of two people so happy and in love. It also generally makes me feel little left out, though.

So what bothers me is that while at the wedding, where there are so many seemingly happy couples, the thought crossed my mind that maybe I made a mistake. I mean, I have this guy who treats me well and evidently cares about me, but I let him go just because we don't have the spark? (It was a decision I debated for quite some time, but I know that if it's not there, you can't force it. I finally decided to tell him because it would be selfish of me to mislead him (even if it's unintentional). I was resolute and felt it was the right thing to do, even though it may cost me the friendship.

I guess I am more annoyed than anything that the thought crossed my mind (am I falling prey to society's pressures? of course, my parent's comparison that I am still single while my friend is getting married does not help either).

Granted, over the years, through trials and errors, I have gained a solid sense of self, of who I am, my values and goals. And yet, on nights like today, I can't help but wonder (even though I don't believe it in my hearts of heart) that maybe settling is not all that bad, and maybe not everyone can find someone they have a spark and are absolutely in love with...?

I am sure I will snap out of it, but for now, I just wanted to share my ramblings and see if anyone else can relate.

stonemonkey

10-23-2006, 01:38 AM

Never settle. That's my rule. You deserve more, spirit.

weary

10-23-2006, 01:54 AM

Never settle. That's my rule. You deserve more, spirit.

diito that spirit. and, i can completely relate to what you are saying. i was actually AT a wedding with a friend equivalent to the one you described, which only made his whole thing for me worse. the whole time he treated 1,000 times nicer than he already does....doting on me like i was his new bride and it was our wedding! this old lady stopped me on my way to the bathroom and said, "oh, aren't you just the luckiest girl. i mean, besides the bride of course! he just looks at you like a little puppy dog. that's so sweet! maybe you two will be next? hurry back from the ladies room b/c the bouquet toss is coming up!" :frustrate it was too weird for me. i felt really bad...and i knew that i could never love or even like him like he did me. i've backed up from the friendship some even.

so like stone said, don't ever settle. you deserve better. and i'd add, so does your friend.

and1grad

10-23-2006, 02:01 AM

I just wanted to share my ramblings and see if anyone else can relate.
Definitely. That happened to me just this past year. It DOES affect the friendship tho so I hope you 2 werent too close.

wordsmith

10-23-2006, 02:33 AM

I think a lot of us have been on one end or the other of that equation, probably both.

There's basically no way that something of that nature won't affect a friendship/relationship/dynamic, etc. I'm sure you know that. Thinking things will go on same business as usual after the fact is typically just not very realistic.

PenforPrez

10-23-2006, 08:38 AM

I had that feeling at my cousin's wedding I went to a few months back. I was glad he had found someone special (we all were), but I couldn't help but wish I had that too. Really got me down.

Then I somehow caught the garter, and then I had a BIGGER problem. :redface:

Paul

spiritedaway

10-23-2006, 08:56 AM

I was feeling a bit off...that makes me feel better. Thanks, stoney.

Never settle. That's my rule. You deserve more, spirit.

spiritedaway

10-23-2006, 09:03 AM

Are you still talking to the person?

We were pretty close since we go way back. It's a bit awkward and we haven't really talked much since, but like wordsworth says, the dynamic has already changed (or is still changing). I guess I may have to see if our friendship can get past it, and if not, I guess I may have lost a friend...

Definitely. That happened to me just this past year. It DOES affect the friendship tho so I hope you 2 werent too close.

spiritedaway

10-23-2006, 09:14 AM

I'm sorry, but that made me laugh. ;):

I don't know anyone else, but the catching the garter/bouquet tends to be my least favorite part of a wedding. Well, I guess not so much the catching of it, but the stuff the wedding party comes up with after you caught it. :huge: What did you have to do?

Then I somehow caught the garter, and then I had a BIGGER problem. :redface:

Paul

stonemonkey

10-23-2006, 09:14 AM

We were pretty close since we go way back. It's a bit awkward and we haven't really talked much since, but like wordsworth says, the dynamic has already changed (or is still changing). I guess I may have to see if our friendship can get past it, and if not, I guess I may have lost a friend...

haha, wordsworth.

I'm not a huge fan of the idea of staying in a friendship where one party wants to take it further. There's always this 'false hope' which is a cruel thing to endure. But it depends, if you're both able to move on as though nothing happened, then it could work.

And yeah, as much as loneliness sucks, I'd still prefer it to being stuck with someone I'm not really into. It's like tying your shoelaces, if it's not tight from the start, then it's just going to unravel over time.

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 09:27 AM

so like stone said, don't ever settle. you deserve better. and i'd add, so does your friend.

I totally agree with this. I've thought about this sort of dilemma a lot (though not too much lately). I was in almost the exact situation that you describe (great guy, treated me well, I wanted to like him that way and just didn't, etc.). He was my best friend. My parents loved him, his parents loved me, etc. I'd like to say that we're still friends, but we aren't. We drifted for a few years, kinda trying to be friends but had less and less in common. Finally, we gave up the ghost.

Hopefully your situation turns out more positively than mine.

LaFille

10-23-2006, 12:57 PM

weddings have a way of effing with your head.

wordsmith

10-23-2006, 01:02 PM

I was amazed that neither of my (younger, no less) brothers' weddings messed with my head in that regard. I almost expected that they would. I'm not really sure why they didn't.

Kitty

10-23-2006, 01:03 PM

What is it about weddings that always make people extra reflective?

I drove home from the last wedding I attended balling my eyes out. I won't go into it, but I was a mess.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 01:07 PM

I can't say I've ever been to a wedding that made me feel sh!tty for any reason. However, I did turn down an invite to one because I thought I might.

LaFille

10-23-2006, 01:07 PM

What is it about weddings that always make people extra reflective?

I drove home from the last wedding I attended balling my eyes out. I won't go into it, but I was a mess.

sick, isn't it :)

for me, they make me think about the possibility of eternal love... and they make me want it for myself.

also, if you're at the wedding of a close friend or relative, you're just so happy for them that they found someone. and sad that your relationship with them might change. so many mixed feelings.

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 01:08 PM

I better be just fine at the wedding I'm attending (and being a bridesmaid in) in a couple of weeks. I made it through my cousin's this year with no problems.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 01:09 PM

for me, they make me think about the possibility of eternal love
Hah, this is pretty far from what weddings usually make me think about, but I'm more cynical than most :)

also, if you're at the wedding of a close friend or relative, you're just so happy for them that they found someone. and sad that your relationship with them might change. so many mixed feelings.
This is definitely true for me as well.

Kitty

10-23-2006, 01:10 PM

Well, my reflections were probably a lot different than that of most people...

Haha..having like 8 glasses of wine probably didn't help any.

wordsmith

10-23-2006, 01:10 PM

True, and in my case, excited to be getting new sisters. Even though they were already pretty much part of the fam.

LaFille

10-23-2006, 01:11 PM

i lose it when i see the father of the bride walking down the aisle to give his little girl away... just thinking about it makes me weepy! i guess i can envision my own dad doing it and i know he's going to have a difficult time. i'll probably have to carry him :huge:

Kitty

10-23-2006, 01:13 PM

The last three weddings I've gone to, it seemed to me that the people were getting married out of desperation (or at least one person in the coupel was) and it really depresses me.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 01:15 PM

The last three weddings I've gone to, it seemed to me that the people were getting married out of desperation (or at least one person in the coupel was) and it really depresses me.
I've been to several weddings where I've thought it was a mistake for the couple to be getting married in the first place. And since, all of those have been having serious problems.

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 01:16 PM

wordsmith

10-23-2006, 01:18 PM

I've been to several weddings where I've thought it was a mistake for the couple to be getting married in the first place. And since, all of those have been having serious problems.

Yup, I actually been in the position where I have come up with a reason not to go to the weddings where it feels like that's the case, because it IS just strained and depressing as all hell. Weddings should be balls-out celebrations of two people who are gong to kick ass together...not something where people are politely thinking "Um...good luck."

Kitty

10-23-2006, 01:19 PM

Yup, I actually been in the position where I have come up with a reason not to go to the weddings where it feels like that's the case, because it IS just strained and depressing as all hell. Weddings should be balls-out celebrations of two people who are gong to kick ass together...not something where people are politely thinking "Um...good luck."

Wow, so you won't go to a wedding where you don't believe in the couple's union?

LaFille

10-23-2006, 01:20 PM

Yep. I don't know how we're going to make it. I know he's gonna cry. Probably big, fat tears.

ugh, the worst was my cousin's wedding... my uncle is this big, tough man and he just LOST it. so then everyone else at the wedding lost it. also bawled at my brother's wedding when my SIL was given away by her two young nephews because she had lost both her parents.

i guess i'm really lucky that i have never been to a wedding where i thought the people were making a mistake. that must be difficult. i've always had a lot of confidence in the people getting married.

wordsmith

10-23-2006, 01:23 PM

Wow, so you won't go to a wedding where you don't believe in the couple's union?

I haven't, so far; fortunately, in the rare cases where it's occurred that I was just like, "Oh, noooooo," I was in a position where my declining didn't raise eyebrows. Nobody really expected me to come in from way outta state, etc., being invited was more a courtesy invite. So it wasn't perceived as a sunb when I RSVP'd regrets.

SunDevil

10-23-2006, 01:24 PM

So what is it that is missing or wrong with these guys? Is it that they aren't attractive? They aren't you who envisioned being with? Are they are too nice or seem desperate? Maybe they wouldn't make good kids

What would the guy that you have 'chemistry' with have that these current guys are lacking?

And how likely is it that your gamble at finding this right guy will be as good as these current ones?

I'm not sure if the same feelings of lust and attraction are present in most marriages after 10, 30 or 50 years, but I think other things bring them together at that point. However, there are a lot of divorces from people wanting to feel that initial spark again with someone else.

SmilesSoSweet

10-23-2006, 01:25 PM

However, I did turn down an invite to one because I thought I might.

I did too. And it was a wedding of a good friend of mine from college. One reason was because I was travelling a lot back home for weddings and stuff, so I was tired of just the travelling. And another reason was that I didn't want to attend this wedding by myself, knowing that there would be others I knew with their SO and stuff. So yeah. I just sent her a gift so that she knew that since I couldn't make it, I'd still get her something.

weary

10-23-2006, 01:26 PM

Wow, so you won't go to a wedding where you don't believe in the couple's union?

i'd have to think long and hard about it, myself.

i have a very good friend who had no maid of honor @ her wedding b/c her best friend and sister were so against her marrying the dude that not only would they not participate in the ceremony, but they did not attend. it broke her heart at the time, but they were right. she's divorced now...

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 01:28 PM

My turn down was to my decade-long but since VERY estranged best friend from high school/college. We had had a falling out long before her wedding date, and hadn't spoken since. I felt the invitation was sent out of curtesy, and not at all because she wanted me there. I tried to weigh what was the best option for HER happiness (since it was gonna be her wedding and all), and I decided that she'd probably be happier without me there.

I'm not sure I'd turn down an invite because I disagreed with the marriage. It would have to be extreme circumstances.

Kitty

10-23-2006, 01:39 PM

I havent' been in the position to decline any weddings I didn't agree with. One was family and the other two were friends. I would have felt horrible for not attending. It is pretty shitty to go to a wedding where you feel like rolling your eyes the entire time.

weary

10-23-2006, 01:47 PM

I'm not sure I'd turn down an invite because I disagreed with the marriage. It would have to be extreme circumstances.

the circumstances in the example i gave were pretty extreme b/c he beat the shit out of her before and during their marriage. their divorce involved a restraining order and lots of domestic violence issues. they have to have a mediator do the transfer of their kid for visitation now.

It is pretty shitty to go to a wedding where you feel like rolling your eyes the entire time.

like the one on SATC where the guy was gay and the lady was an old maid? or like the example i gave?

Kitty

10-23-2006, 01:49 PM

like the one on SATC where the guy was gay and the lady was an old maid? or like the example i gave?

Fortunately, I've never had to go to a wedding where the situation was that extreme. Just weddings where I knew one person was settling.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 01:54 PM

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 01:59 PM

That's exactly what I had in mind as a reason for me to decline.

I think that would be one of the only reasons I would decline. Because one (or both) are settling, nope. I'd probably still go, to be supportive, unless I were just a courtesy invite.

shimma

10-23-2006, 02:04 PM

the circumstances in the example i gave were pretty extreme b/c he beat the shit out of her before and during their marriage. their divorce involved a restraining order and lots of domestic violence issues.

Unless it is somehing like this, I think it;s pretty judgemental and shitty for a third party to just say "you're not good together, I don't approve of your marriage, and fuck you, I'm not going to your wedding."

Unles you are actually IN that relationship, it's a really tough call to make that a couple's not into one another (ie, if they disagree about a few things, one is really into a hobby the other does't know much about, or if they aren't always touchy-feely) or to decide that one person isn't "good enough" for the other. Relationships and marriages are work. Love is, honestly, inexplicable, and it's hard for a third party to say who should or should not love whom.

Furthermore, resistance from those close to you has a way of drawing a couple closer, not the intended effect.

wordsmith

10-23-2006, 02:13 PM

That's exactly what I had in mind as a reason for me to decline.

Mine was one wedding where I knew the groom to be emotionally abusive, and the other was a wedding where I knew the groom had addiction issues. The former marriage is still going, albeit with bad problems relating to abuse, and the second collapsed pretty quickly.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 02:13 PM

Unles you are actually IN that relationship, it's a really tough call to make that a couple's not into one another
I agree...most of the time. But it's pretty clear when you know (for instance, are told first-hand) that the relationship has problems to begin with. And I am NOT a believer that marriage will fix relationship problems. No freakin' way.

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 02:14 PM

And I am NOT a believer that marriage will fix relationship problems. No freakin' way.

Nobody but those applying wishful thinking could think that it would, IMO.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 02:16 PM

Nobody but those applying wishful thinking could think that it would, IMO.
Lots of people who refuse to exit their poor relationships think this way.

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 02:20 PM

Lots of people who refuse to exit their poor relationships think this way.
See? Wishful thinking.

labrat2111

10-23-2006, 02:21 PM

I had one friend who was getting married and I felt it wasn't going to work out. I went because I knew she had her mind made up and I was happy for her. The marriage did end only a year later but I figured she was going to have to learn the hard way on that one (there were relationship issues but nothing like physical abuse although he likely cheated on her during their marriage).

I don't go to many weddings anyway. I only attend weddings of close friends and family. My mom bugged me about weddings for various cousins but my policy is I'm not getting dressed up, plunking down money on a gift, and driving 3 hours if I only see and talk to you on christmas. I'm happy for them all but not enough to attend.

The only wedding I've attended recently was a coworker I'm good friends with. It was a really nice (and short :) ) ceremony. The reception was also very nice and even though I didn't know many people at the reception I had a fun time.

shimma

10-23-2006, 02:56 PM

Mine was one wedding where I knew the groom to be emotionally abusive, and the other was a wedding where I knew the groom had addiction issues. The former marriage is still going, albeit with bad problems relating to abuse, and the second collapsed pretty quickly.

Well, like I said, abuse and addictions are the exception. I've seen or been the recipient of a lot of the petty objections I alluded to in my post, and what people don't understand is it doesn't make the bride or groom stop and reconsider their marriage, it makes them stop and reconsider their relationship with the objector. In fact, the bride and groom consider you one less mouth to feed.

I had one friend who was getting married and I felt it wasn't going to work out. I went because I knew she had her mind made up and I was happy for her.
Kudos to you, Labrat, good attitude on this one. :huge:

wordsmith

10-23-2006, 02:58 PM

In fact, the bride and groom consider you one less mouth to feed.

If it's a leveraging tool, then don't invite at all, I say.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 03:02 PM

Yeah, I'm sure that's the way a lot of (most?) wedding-planning goes (viewing the guests as 'mouths to feed', so to speak), and that's pretty squarely the spirit that makes me dislike standard wedding traditions.

Kitty

10-23-2006, 03:07 PM

I wonder if given the choice between marrying your best friend or never marrying (or being in a serious relationship) how many people would choose to marry their best friend.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 03:07 PM

I wonder if given the choice between marrying your best friend or never marrying (or being in a serious relationship) how many people would choose to marry their best friend.
I would. I almost married him anyway.

LaFille

10-23-2006, 03:08 PM

I wonder if given the choice between marrying your best friend or never marrying (or being in a serious relationship) how many people would choose to marry their best friend.
you mean best friend of the opposite sex (or whatever sex you're attracted to) or just best friend in general?

hopefully none of us will ever have to make that choice :huge:

Kitty

10-23-2006, 03:09 PM

you mean best friend of the opposite sex (or whatever sex you're attracted to) or just best friend in general?

hopefully none of us will ever have to make that choice :huge:

Yes, best friend of opposite sex!

Kitty

10-23-2006, 03:10 PM

hopefully none of us will ever have to make that choice :huge:

I bet you the people that "settle" don't really see it as a "choice" though. I think there's a lot of people that thing "it's this or nothing."

shimma

10-23-2006, 03:10 PM

If it's a leveraging tool, then don't invite at all, I say.

Not a leveraging tool, but you do get to a point in wedding planning where it's like "this shit is costing HOW much?!" and then on top of that stress, come the petty objectors, "so you're refusing to come because you have a problem with one person making more money or having more education than the other/you feel that they are too young or too old to get married/you saw (whomever) first and are pissed it didn't work out that way? Fuck you then, and thanks for saving me $60!" It may well be a person the bride or groom cares about a lot, and genuinely wants at the wedding, who is just choosing to act like a douchebag based on their own hangups.

LaFille

10-23-2006, 03:11 PM

Yes, best friend of opposite sex!

ha ha ok... i still have no idea. i guess i might 'learn to love' him like that...

shimma

10-23-2006, 03:12 PM

I wonder if given the choice between marrying your best friend or never marrying (or being in a serious relationship) how many people would choose to marry their best friend.

I am marrying my best friend. ;)

LaFille

10-23-2006, 03:12 PM

I am marrying my best friend. ;)
now that's cute. :huge:

weary

10-23-2006, 03:16 PM

out of my 2 best GF's, i could probably marry at least 1 of them if she was wicked with um, a 'tool'. or had some serious surgery.

my 2 guy BF's? no question. i'd marry either of them in a heartbeat. one is actually an ex of mine. we only broke up due to circumstances, nothing bad. still great friends. i know we could make a go of it.

the thing about me with friends - of either sex - is, if they are truly my friend (as in i let them into my heart/life/etc.), then i'm in love with them. not romantic love of course, but it's not that hard of a stretch if you're already in love, i think.

Kitty

10-23-2006, 03:17 PM

I am marrying my best friend. ;)

You know what I mean!

and1grad

10-23-2006, 03:27 PM

Im not sure I could do it. It'd feel kinda fraudulent to me plus I'd probably get jealous of my friends who DID love their spouse and grow to resent people.

shimma

10-23-2006, 03:28 PM

You know what I mean!

Yes, yes. He did go from "that cute guy at work" to "dating" to "best friend".

Check your hotmail.

wordsmith

10-23-2006, 03:30 PM

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 03:31 PM

Probably not (but who knows?). The idea of a duplex doesn't sound too bad, though.

shimma

10-23-2006, 03:31 PM

I have loved a best friend. For me, that's the ideal. As long as I have romantic feelings for the guy as well as the best of the best platonic feelings, what's the prob?

But if your best friend isn't somebody you have love feelings for, then no.

Right. And IMHO, the man/woman you marry should have grown to be your best friend, and continue to be so.

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 03:32 PM

As long as I have romantic feelings for the guy as well as the best of the best platonic feelings.

Yep. This is what I want.

wordsmith

10-23-2006, 03:34 PM

Right. And IMHO, the man/woman you marry should have grown to be your best friend, and continue to be so.

These are the couples who I admire the most, in my life. If I settle for less than that, I'm def. settling.

weary

10-23-2006, 03:38 PM

yes, and on the flipside, it's so disheartening to see couples (who have been married for a long time) who aren't even friends. i see it a lot...
:neutral:

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 03:40 PM

yes, and on the flipside, it's so disheartening to see couples (who have been married for a long time) who aren't even friends. i see it a lot...
:neutral:

I sorta wonder about a lot of people I see...I wonder of some were ever friends.

wordsmith

10-23-2006, 03:41 PM

Also talked a lot with my mom about that recently, because my sister recently moved home after being away at school for four years, so kind of has fresh eyes with which to look at my parents' marriage, day to day. My sister was like, "I'm not sure if mom and dad are still friends." So I talked to my mom about it, generally, and she conceded that there's an ebb and flow, times where they don't work as hard as they should, and give free reign to petty irritations that come up, more than they should. It shouldn't be a struggle to stay close to your spouse, IMO. But that doesn't mean it's never going to require an effort.

weary

10-23-2006, 03:41 PM

I sorta wonder about a lot of people I see...I wonder of some were ever friends.

like the couples out to dinner who don't even look at or talk to eachother the whole meal?

yeah...i gotta wonder how it got there.

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 03:45 PM

like the couples out to dinner who don't even look at or talk to eachother the whole meal?

yeah...i gotta wonder how it got there.

Or various neighbors, or family members, etc.

wordsmith

10-23-2006, 03:48 PM

like the couples out to dinner who don't even look at or talk to eachother the whole meal?

yeah...i gotta wonder how it got there.

My guesses:

Worst case scenario - built up resentment
Best case scenario - the slow but not intrinsically evil evolution of taking somebody for granted.

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 03:51 PM

My guesses:

Worst case scenario - built up resentment
Best case scenario - the slow but not intrinsically evil evolution of taking somebody for granted.

Probably good bets.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 03:56 PM

like the couples out to dinner who don't even look at or talk to eachother the whole meal?
My SO and I were commenting on that this weekend. We were out to lunch, and acting silly and laughing, and had the standard "we probably look like asshats" moment, but then we both acknowledged that we were the ONLY people in the restaurant laughing & smiling, and that that is usually the case. it's sad.

Kitty

10-23-2006, 04:02 PM

We always comment about that too. Why are there so many couples eating out that don't even talk to each other!!?

In NYC we sat next to a dude and his mail order bride. It was pretty interesting.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 04:04 PM

it gives a boost to my theory that laughter & silliness is critical for a successful long-term relationship. i can't even tell you how much i laugh on a given day at home.

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 04:07 PM

it gives a boost to my theory that laughter & silliness is critical for a successful long-term relationship. i can't even tell you how much i laugh on a given day at home.

Any successful long term relationship. Romantic, platonic, group, work or otherwise, IMO. There must be fun!

Kitty

10-23-2006, 04:09 PM

My friend is in a relationship and they NEVER laugh. It's either talk seriously, fight, or silence.

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 04:11 PM

My friend is in a relationship and they NEVER laugh. It's either talk seriously, fight, or silence.

I couldn't do it.

Kitty

10-23-2006, 04:13 PM

I couldn't do it.

My friend is pretty much dead inside now.

MetFanL

10-23-2006, 04:13 PM

My friend is pretty much dead inside now.
That's just horrible to think about. :(

weary

10-23-2006, 04:14 PM

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 04:14 PM

My friend is pretty much dead inside now.

That's why.

The way I see it: if I can't laugh with you (for whatever reason), we pretty much don't have a future.

Kitty

10-23-2006, 04:16 PM

That's just horrible to think about. :(

Yup, and she just moved in with this guy. They got a two bedroom apartment so that they could each have a TV in a room. After work they go watch TV in separate rooms because they like different shows. How depressing is that?

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 04:17 PM

Kitty

10-23-2006, 04:17 PM

funny, the thing that most bothered me about my ex when we first started getting serious was that he had a tendency to be goofy and "too playful" at times. i would get so agitated. then, it somehow grew on me, and eventually rubbed off on me (i tend to be pretty serious, and my humor is more dry/sarcastic/mean). now, i'm the silly one, and that's probably what i miss about him most. (well...almost most. ;) )

My ex was the type to NEVER take things seriously - it was actually a huge issue. I remember once we got lost while I was driving and I was so frustrated and I needed his help and he just kept singing this stupid Jamaican song and acting like an idiot. I wanted to kill him.

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 04:18 PM

Yup, and she just moved in with this guy. They got a two bedroom apartment so that they could each have a TV in a room. After work they go watch TV in separate rooms because they like different shows. How depressing is that?

I have never lived anywhere with more than one tv. I might...but only if one is in the exercise space and is used for that purpose rather than avoidance.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 04:19 PM

I remember once we got lost while I was driving and I was so frustrated and I needed his help and he just kept singing this stupid Jamaican song and acting like an idiot. I wanted to kill him.
This made me LOL.

and1grad

10-23-2006, 04:20 PM

Yup, and she just moved in with this guy. They got a two bedroom apartment so that they could each have a TV in a room. After work they go watch TV in separate rooms because they like different shows. How depressing is that?
Do they have those 2 twin beds like the Dick Van Dyke show? I think I could appreciate the Nick at Nite-ness of that.

Kitty

10-23-2006, 04:21 PM

I have never lived anywhere with more than one tv. I might...but only if one is in the exercise space and is used for that purpose rather than avoidance.

Yeah, I really don't see any need for more than one TV. I really don't see that much need for even one TV.

and1grad

10-23-2006, 04:22 PM

and if you need a topic to have a deep conversation with, go see The Prestige. raises so many good questions on the nature of consciousness!

Yeah, I'ma plug my movie :)
That movie about magic or something?

weary

10-23-2006, 04:22 PM

yeah weary, you definitely need a balance. i love that i laugh so much, but if i couldn't have a serious conversation with my SO (or never felt that he takes me seriously), that wouldn't work either. you need to be able to be silly, and have deep & meaningful conversations. at least i do.

and if you need a topic to have a deep conversation with, go see The Prestige. raises so many good questions on the nature of consciousness!

Yeah, I'ma plug my movie :)
ha ha ah ha ha ha em! funny you should say that b/c while i was in the movie i def thought of him and wondered what he'd think of it.

but what i was saying wasn't that we could never have serious convos, it was that I was too serious. i miss his silliness b/c it loosened me up and helped me gain balance. unfortunately, he didn't have any balance or conscience when it came to fidelity. :mad: :cry:

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 04:23 PM

That movie about magic or something?
OMG IT'S ABOUT SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT

Kitty

10-23-2006, 04:24 PM

OMG IT'S ABOUT SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT

I got confused between that movie and The Illusionist - the previews are so similiar.

weary

10-23-2006, 04:24 PM

OMG IT'S ABOUT SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT

HELL YEAH.

there's a whole thread about it if you want to know more.

BUT YOU SHOULD REALLY GO SEE IT! :huge:

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 04:25 PM

OMG IT'S ABOUT SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT
I kinda think it would be really interesting to have to write a paper about it. The nature of the self, obsession, etc.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 04:26 PM

unfortunately, he didn't have any balance or conscience when it came to fidelity. :mad: :cry:
well that's an innate flaw you can't really do anything about other than find yourself a guy who doesn't have that problem :)

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 04:27 PM

I got confused between that movie and The Illusionist - the previews are so similiar.

But the movies are vastly different. For example: The Prestige=incredibly good and thought provoking. The Illusionish=second rate plot that seems ripped off (I won't say what it sorta ripped off, in case people want to see it, but it isn't exactly subtle) with a "meh" plot and direction that in no way compares to the Prestige.

weary

10-23-2006, 04:28 PM

well that's an innate flaw you can't really do anything about other than find yourself a guy who doesn't have that problem :)

oh, i hear ya. and thank god i didn't marry him.

now if i could only learn to trust again...

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 04:29 PM

I kinda think it would be really interesting to have to write a paper about it. The nature of the self, obsession, etc.
Actually, I was thinking about the fact that [spoiler]:

Angiers goes into the machine. The Angiers that goes in has no memory of ever dying, because he is alive to go in. But that consciousness WILL be the one that dies, next generation, because the twin is produced outside the machine, & appears to the audience far from it. So every time he goes into the machine, "he" knows he will be the one to drown. On the other hand, the "he" that doesn't drown has the same memories, and thinks that he will have been the one to die in that generation, so when HE goes into the machine next time, he thinks he has a chance at being the one to live, as well as a chance at being the one to die, next round.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 04:30 PM

now if i could only learn to trust again...
I had a similar experience, darlin'. The trust will come again, it just takes time and the right person :)

Kitty

10-23-2006, 04:30 PM

But the movies are vastly different. For example: The Prestige=incredibly good and thought provoking. The Illusionish=second rate plot that seems ripped off (I won't say what it sorta ripped off, in case people want to see it, but it isn't exactly subtle) with a "meh" plot and direction that in no way compares to the Prestige.

It's just funny because D and i went to see The Illusionist and we saw a preview for The Prestige and D was like, "Wait, isn't that the movie we're seeing?" and we were both pissed that they were showing a preview of the movie we were about to see...until we realized that wasn't the case.

weary

10-23-2006, 04:34 PM

I had a similar experience, darlin'. The trust will come again, it just takes time and the right person :)

thanks em. :) there's hope for me yet...

WorkInProgress

10-23-2006, 04:35 PM

embrassezla:
I'm still unsure how the machine duplicates everything. Nobody is exactly the same with exactly the same memories or experience. I don't get how the double who always appeared had all of the cumulative memories of the original, who got shot. And which one is really "him"? And what if the duplicate thinks for himself and decides he can't bear to perform the trick because of the cost? I'm not sure I buy it. Is there a "self" or are they all the same "self"? I would tend to think not, in the same way that identical twins are not the same "self"--each have the capacity to think alone, make choices, etc.

embrassezla

10-23-2006, 04:46 PM

WIP:

I think that's the part of the movie that is "supernatural". Tesla was commissioned to build a machine that transports matter. Instead, he built a machine that creates a copy of the matter. The copy is exact in that it retains the same memories as the original. It's not a clone, born of the same genetics, it is a true copy in both matter and consciousness (at least, I believe this is what the movie intends for you to believe). I don't feel like they needed to explain how the machine accomplished this, simply that that's what it did.

I believe the original is the Angiers that goes through the trap door and drowns, and a double is created some distance away, as opposed to the original being transported and a double created in its place, although nothing in the movie indicates that that can't be the case - I think the idea is the same either way, in fact. Unless there is a probabalistic value to it (namely, that the original has probability p<=1 to appear OUTSIDE the machine), the Angiers that goes in SHOULD know, deterministically, whether "he" will be the one to die or not.

As for the question of self, i believe that they are the same "self" until exactly the moment that the duplicate is created. At that moment, his experiences diverge from the original. The first time Angiers tests the machine, he (let's assume the original) finds himself unchanged still standing in the machine. His copy finds himself outside of the machine, is confused for a moment, then realizes what is about to happen (he is the copy and the original is going to grab the gun). The copy IS thinking for himself, each time - he makes the decision to go into the machine because he believes (erroneously, I believe, although it doesn't particularly matter) that there is a chance that he will come out of it alive. The more times the trick is performed, the more "memories" Angiers has of performing the trick and coming out alive.

Sorry for the TJ, you guys!

weary

10-23-2006, 04:47 PM

em, WIP:
i think that (and this is just my theory) he duplicated himself once BEFORE doing the trick live, and that self was always directing the show behind the scenes. remember how he said he didn't want the old guy backstage anymore? i don't think he wanted the old guy completely in on the trick. and remember how when he was dying from the gunshot there was another A/lord C in the water tank to the left? i think that was just one of the many duplicates that died every night in the show and that the real one is the one that died in the ending scene (getting shot). he knew everything. he even said something to the effect of, "imagine what it was like for me dying every night and not knowing which one would arrive on the balcony" or something like that. just my theory...

damn, i wish we all lived closer so we could take a field trip together and go see it again! :razz: