How do you know that you're being paid enough?

[pisces2473]

Or not being paid enough?

I'm on all of those salary sites now...and I am not having any luck. I work for a small, rapidly-growing, publisher--doing marketing/admin asst type stuff. I work in a small shoreline town in CT. I have a BA and several years experience with books and publishing.

I really can't find a good median. I don't feel comfy using the marketing median, because that's a huge area--pharmaceutical marketing probably pays 10x more than publishers marketing. Publishing doesn't have very many categories for jobs so I'm not getting a good sample there, either. Then you factor in a state with high COL but the fact that it's a small business (less than 50 employees).

Ahhh! I want some data for my 3 month review in a few weeks.

[AshleyJordan]

Can you find vacancy listings for similar positions? I've found the salary sites to have radically inflated numbers for a lot of positions, at least in my case.

[pisces2473]

I was poking around on Monster...and I'm not having any luck finding similar jobs...grrr! Too many variables that skew the data--marketing, publishing, small company, Connecticut.

[AshleyJordan]

did you try salary.com? they usually have a huuuuuuge range though. seriously, i think for my position it was like "30 to 70K" which was so very helpful.

[pisces2473]

Ha, yeah, I did...it was like, the median range for this job is 48K. Suuure...but that's because my official job title is so open-ended.

I knew I should have tried to get a higher starting salary when I accepted this offer. Dammit, too late now....I've never negotiated, so I had no idea how to do so.

[Still Looking]

Ha, yeah, I did...it was like, the median range for this job is 48K. Suuure...but that's because my official job title is so open-ended.

I knew I should have tried to get a higher starting salary when I accepted this offer. Dammit, too late now....I've never negotiated, so I had no idea how to do so.

I agree with 'ashleyjordan' on the salary.com thing. I've had to use this a few things before accepting an offer or negotiating salary. And you are right, you cannot get too specific with it because the job titles on there are so broad.

[AshleyJordan]

At this point in the game, I'm not so sure. You might have some leeway with negotiating a higher raise or bonus, but that might be sticky.

I'm not sure how seriously I'd take salary.com, though . . . I ran the numbers for a "personalized report" based on all of my variables: education, # supervised, size or organization, etc., and it spit back a salary range that's much higher than I've ever seen for my line of work.

[and1grad]

Can you find vacancy listings for similar positions? I've found the salary sites to have radically inflated numbers for a lot of positions, at least in my case.
Me too. I think those salary sites are absolute junk. I think the only way to have an idea is to find out what your coworkers are being paid.

[pisces2473]

At this point in the game, I'm not so sure. You might have some leeway with negotiating a higher raise or bonus, but that might be sticky.

I'm not sure how seriously I'd take salary.com, though . . . I ran the numbers for a "personalized report" based on all of my variables: education, # supervised, size or organization, etc., and it spit back a salary range that's much higher than I've ever seen for my line of work.
I wasn't even SURE if I could negotiate...I should have at least tried to do so. All my past jobs were non-negotiable since they were union. I can at least try. BUT--how do you do that without seeming greedy?

I don't think those sites can be accurate, since there are so many variables to each job...and there's no way they are ALL represented.

And1--and how do I find out what my coworkers are paid!?!? lol

[TinyDancer]

Hmmm. . . I guess I should poke around and see what these sites are all about before I start giving advice, but I know that you definitely can't compare by titles. Waaay too much variation from place to place.

Salary surveys that give brief job descriptions and that list actual job duties would be most helpful to you. I've had access to some through past employers when I was working in comp, but I'm no longer involved in that with my current employer. I wonder if you can get those from a local library though?

I don't know if I recommend comparing internally either because there are a lot of different variables there. Susie in the next cubicle may make a few grand more than you for doing a similar job. . . but Susie may have come in with more experience, education, etc. Also, going into your review comparing yourself to others probably isn't the impression that you wanna make. I think you'd want to have better data to back up any suggestions to salary that you have.

Sorry I'm not more help. . .

[TinyDancer]

I wasn't even SURE if I could negotiate...I should have at least tried to do so. All my past jobs were non-negotiable since they were union. I can at least try. BUT--how do you do that without seeming greedy?
Oh, BTW. . . there are several good books on salary negotiation. I have some at home that I read for a negotiation class. . . I'll give you the titles when I'm back next week.

It never hurts to negotiate when looking at a job offer. The best thing that can happen, they can increase your salary. . . the worst thing. . . they can say no. I've never held it against someone for asking for more. . . I've just said no when it's something that I can't do because of internal equity.

[AshleyJordan]

I wasn't even SURE if I could negotiate...I should have at least tried to do so. All my past jobs were non-negotiable since they were union. I can at least try. BUT--how do you do that without seeming greedy?


If it's a good review and your boss is cool, you can try to negotiate on the raise if you're not satisfied with it, mentioning things you've done really well over the past year or ways you've brought more money into the co. You might be able to get an extra thousand or two. . . but these are all really big variables. This is based on my experience in a different field, and when doing fundraising, haggling for a bonus or a raise on an almost commission-like basis. I think a little online research-- maybe for "performance evaluation + negotiate" might pull up some more relevant advice.

[and1grad]

And1--and how do I find out what my coworkers are paid!?!? lol
You ask them. Most people arent completely uncomfortable giving you an idea of what they make (in the 50s, 60s, etc). Also, having an idea of what your coworkers make gives you an idea of what to ask for. If you ask for something way over your head, yes you will look greedy.

[Kitty]

Hmm..are there any professional organizations for what you do?

For example, there's this conference I go to each year which is only for professionals who market higher education. They also have local chapter events, etc. Through that I've figured out what typical pay is (asking people, job postings on that site which list salary, etc.).

I did the same thing with my last job.

I also spend countless hours looking on craigslist, monster, etc. for jobs similar to mine that listed salary ranges.

Another thing to do would be to find an alumni who has a job doing something similar and ask. Or, sign up for a site like linkedin and search around there.

[Kitty]

Oh..I also wanted to add that they probably won't give you an insane pay increase. It's probably going to be a percentage...so, you could ask around and see what typical raises are like there.

At my 6 month review (where I was promised a "pay increase") I got a crappy 3% raise. I already knew that you have to negotiate for salary up front, but after that it was pounded in to me. I'll never take a job under the assumption that they'll fall in love with me and then pay me a lot more. It just doesn't work that way.

The highest raises here are 6%. The only way to get a significant pay increase is to be promoted or have your job duties change.

[winneythepooh7]

From what I've seen on the Admin Asst. end in this area, people make anywhere from high 20's to high 40's. I don't know anything about marketing.

[pisces2473]

From what I've seen on the Admin Asst. end in this area, people make anywhere from high 20's to high 40's. I don't know anything about marketing.
And the kicker is, that it's not just marketing...it's marketing in the publishing industry. Publishing doesn't pay well.

And1--I would never feel comfy asking a coworker (when I haven't even been there 3 months) how much they make!

I have found some local job ads on CL, monster, career builder, etc...and I'm about at that range...it's only that I'm almost 5 yrs out of school, and I feel that I should be getting paid a lot more than I am right now. I'm not some wide-eyed 22 year old new grad. I'm going to be 27 in 3 months and I want MORE MONEY!!! I don't just sit and answer phones, I do a lot of work and organizing and making sure everyone else has their shit together.

[LaFille]

create a distraction on payday and sneak into your colleague's cubicle to peek into their pay stub?

[cache]

The Bureau of Labor Statistics is a good resource for more real world figures, but you may run into the same problem about not being able to find something that matches your position that closely. Just look around using different dimensions - location, industry, etc. and that should give you a better idea.

[and1grad]

And1--I would never feel comfy asking a coworker (when I haven't even been there 3 months) how much they make!
There really isnt much other way to find out what you should be making.

[red]

PM me. maybe i can help.

i just want to add that i think a lot of ppl screw themselves in salary talks by not wanting to seem greedy, but i think a lot of times you don't have anything to lose by asking. at a small company you can also ask for bigger raises than at a large company. at my last company i got better raises than i do here, at major pub house. basically once a year everyone gets the same crap raise here. but you can make a report and show all of your duties and how they have changed, etc. and argue for more $$

[EmberMae]

At my bf's company, you can get fired for asking or talking about your rate of pay or that of someone else in the company.

[wordsmith]

PM me. maybe i can help.

i just want to add that i think a lot of ppl screw themselves in salary talks by not wanting to seem greedy, but i think a lot of times you don't have anything to lose by asking. at a small company you can also ask for bigger raises than at a large company. at my last company i got better raises than i do here, at major pub house. basically once a year everyone gets the same crap raise here. but you can make a report and show all of your duties and how they have changed, etc. and argue for more $$

I do think, though, that you can dent your crediblity and damage your likelihood of being taken seriously by shooting way insane, pie in the sky type numbers at hiring personnel who were otherwise taking you seriously. Granted, most people know better than to go into total "asking for the world, on the offchance you get it" mode, but it's not always so clear in terms of various fields/various employers where the threshold is for what's reasonable and what's asking for the world. Most applicants aren't too excited about being seen as the naive (at best, at worst, spoiled and unrealistic) prospective employee who actually thought they were going to GET [fill in the blank astronomically inappropriate amount].

[winneythepooh7]

Just another suggestion as well, always keep in contact with your supervisor about your goals in the company. You can often get promoted this way, but sometimes, if you don't say anything, your employer may overlook you.

[red]

wordsmith, i totally agree. but where there's a range, i'm always aiming for the top end of that range. most people who don't ask for raises don't get them. any time a company extends an offer to you, i'd always look to get it bumped up a little bit. i think we were talking about this in that other thread. sometimes there's no room for that- like i wasn't able to get much more than what i was offered when i started this job. but it can't hurt to put it out there.

[Kitty]

wordsmith, i totally agree. but where there's a range, i'm always aiming for the top end of that range. most people who don't ask for raises don't get them. any time a company extends an offer to you, i'd always look to get it bumped up a little bit. i think we were talking about this in that other thread. sometimes there's no room for that- like i wasn't able to get much more than what i was offered when i started this job. but it can't hurt to put it out there.

I agree. It doesn't hurt to ask. I had to ask for my first raise here..and I'm glad I did. Obviously, you have to do this within reason and can't just ask for some insane raise or an insane starting salary - but I think a lot of people think they won't get the job if they try to negotiate and therefore just take whatever the first offer is.

[pisces2473]

I agree. It doesn't hurt to ask. I had to ask for my first raise here..and I'm glad I did. Obviously, you have to do this within reason and can't just ask for some insane raise or an insane starting salary - but I think a lot of people think they won't get the job if they try to negotiate and therefore just take whatever the first offer is.
Do you think 2K is too high to ask for?

[cache]

Couple things here: You should be able to justify and prove why you deserve a raise. When you select an amount that you can no longer justify, then it is inappropriate.

Also, I personally like to negotiate other things - it is not just about money. To me, vacation days are golden negotiating chips - it doesn't increase your salary at all - or the cost to the company(other than lost productivity) - so many managers are more receptive to things like that instead of monetary increases.

[pisces2473]

Couple things here: You should be able to justify and prove why you deserve a raise. When you select an amount that you can no longer justify, then it is inappropriate.

Also, I personally like to negotiate other things - it is not just about money. To me, vacation days are golden negotiating chips - it doesn't increase your salary at all - or the cost to the company(other than lost productivity) - so many managers are more receptive to things like that instead of monetary increases.
I'm not asking for a ton more. I just want to be paid at a decent salary for someone in CT who's been out of college for 5 yrs.

Although, maybe I could ask for more vacation days or something...but I doubt that would work.

[Kitty]

Do you think 2K is too high to ask for?

Nope, sounds reasonable. That's about 7% right?

[red]

i think 2k is fine and when i got my first job in publishing i got a 2k increase at the 6 month mark. so don't feel bad at all for asking.

[pisces2473]

Nope, sounds reasonable. That's about 7% right?
Yup, 7%.

It's not like I just graduated from college and know NOTHING about working or books or whatever.

[pisces2473]

OMG.

I just got asked to punch holes in paper.

WTF.

I DID NOT GO TO COLLEGE TO DO THIS SORT OF GRUNT WORK. I would punch holes for my own projects...as would everyone else at my former jobs. I wouldn't have a lackey doing it for me.

I do NOT want to be that lackey.

[wordsmith]

That's kind of how I feel about typing press releases.

[cheshrcarol]

OMG.

I just got asked to punch holes in paper.

WTF.

I DID NOT GO TO COLLEGE TO DO THIS SORT OF GRUNT WORK. I would punch holes for my own projects...as would everyone else at my former jobs. I wouldn't have a lackey doing it for me.

I do NOT want to be that lackey.Welcome to my old job :googly: .

I was constantly asked to do people's crap work (filling out fedex slips, filing, pulling files, cleaning the file room). I swear if I never see another file room it will be too soon. The majority of junk I did during the day was NOT what I was led to believe the job would be and was seriously a waste of my years of industry-specific experience. It even got to the point where other people in the company thought I was a receptionist or secretary. Fabulousness :neutral: .

[pisces2473]

Welcome to my old job :googly: .

I was constantly asked to do people's crap work (filling out fedex slips, filing, pulling files, cleaning the file room). I swear if I never see another file room it will be too soon. The majority of junk I did during the day was NOT what I was led to believe the job would be and was seriously a waste of my years of industry-specific experience. It even got to the point where other people in the company thought I was a receptionist or secretary. Fabulousness :neutral: .
I'm seriously on the verge of tears here. I am soooo not focusing on what I need to get done, because I'm stressing out on these mundane things people keep asking me to do.

This is not what I was led to believe I'd be doing either. My boss is out today with her sick little boy...I don't know if I should say something the next time I see her, or if I should wait til my review (which will probably be late since the boss is going out of the country to adopt another child).

I tried to talk about this stuff before the Tgiving break, but either I wasn't being clear on what I was not happy with, or she wasn't listening, because she told me that I just need to focus on my priorities and multitask.

[Kitty]

Do you have a job description that outlines what you're supposed to do?

I've found you have to set boundaries REALLY early on for this kind of thing.

[winneythepooh7]

Did you initially ask for a certain amount, but the pay was much lower than you expected? I could be mixing you up with someone, but for some reason I thought you had posted something about that before you accepted the position.......or they didn't list the salary or something like that, and then when they told you, it was much lower than what you thought?

[AshleyJordan]

I was constantly asked to do people's crap work (filling out fedex slips, filing, pulling files, cleaning the file room). .


That was my last full-time job, as well. The real kicker was that it required a Master's degree and a couple years of post-college experience. I am now very conscious of the things I ask our support staff (admins, office mgr, etc.,) to help out with, and super thankful because I know how much it sucks having to do that stuff all day.

[winneythepooh7]

I'm seriously on the verge of tears here. I am soooo not focusing on what I need to get done, because I'm stressing out on these mundane things people keep asking me to do.

This is not what I was led to believe I'd be doing either. My boss is out today with her sick little boy...I don't know if I should say something the next time I see her, or if I should wait til my review (which will probably be late since the boss is going out of the country to adopt another child).

I tried to talk about this stuff before the Tgiving break, but either I wasn't being clear on what I was not happy with, or she wasn't listening, because she told me that I just need to focus on my priorities and multitask.

Does she have email? Maybe that would be a good way to contact her.........

[embrassezla]

she told me that I just need to focus on my priorities and multitask.
holy crap, how did you not punch her? this kind of generic, meaningless business-speak is seriously breeding a cult of zombies. now back to these tps reports...

[pisces2473]

Do you have a job description that outlines what you're supposed to do?

I've found you have to set boundaries REALLY early on for this kind of thing.
Oh yes, I have a job description. It says something about preparing materials, but to me, punching holes is not what I would do when preparing materials.

OH FUCK. Why do I always have to learn things the hard way????? First I didn't negotiate a high enough salary, now I let people walk all over me. How can I stand my ground w/out being a bitch??

[pisces2473]

Did you initially ask for a certain amount, but the pay was much lower than you expected? I could be mixing you up with someone, but for some reason I thought you had posted something about that before you accepted the position.......or they didn't list the salary or something like that, and then when they told you, it was much lower than what you thought?
Sounds like it's a mix...

I first thought I read the job ad as 28-38K. So when they offered me 28, I was disgusted. Then I double checked the ad, and I read it wrong--it was 23-33K. So I felt a little better--midway point--better than what I was making at the last job, etc.

[Kitty]

Well, I would do it for now and then have a talk with your boss. I had to do this at my last job when some ass hole asked me to make photocopies for him. I didn't have any admin type duties in my job description and I didn't want to turn into the office secretary just because I was a girl.

I think at the time I also made some comment to him about how I wasn't his personal secretary - but I wouldn't advise doing that.

I guess I would also start documenting it. Like, how often people ask you, how much time it's taking..etc.

[pisces2473]

Does she have email? Maybe that would be a good way to contact her.........
About what though? I just don't want to come off wrong, or give a bad impression.

[winneythepooh7]

Oh yes, I have a job description. It says something about preparing materials, but to me, punching holes is not what I would do when preparing materials.

OH FUCK. Why do I always have to learn things the hard way????? First I didn't negotiate a high enough salary, now I let people walk all over me. How can I stand my ground w/out being a bitch??


Breathe. I think you need to really let her know that you need to have a meeting with her ASAP to discuss some concerns you have about your position. It is better to nip this stuff early on, before it gets completely out of hand, and you get blamed for stuff. Do you make lists? I've always found them to be extremely helpful. I do one every evening on the train home, and look at it on the way into the office in the morning. It helps me focus. Your most important stuff should come before the stupid work, like punching holes in someone's crap.

[pisces2473]

holy crap, how did you not punch her? this kind of generic, meaningless business-speak is seriously breeding a cult of zombies. now back to these tps reports...
It was 5:30 on Weds. I wanted to get the hell out of the office. I was like, "Whatever" and went home.

[wordsmith]

I'm seriously on the verge of tears here. I am soooo not focusing on what I need to get done, because I'm stressing out on these mundane things people keep asking me to do.

This is not what I was led to believe I'd be doing either. My boss is out today with her sick little boy...I don't know if I should say something the next time I see her, or if I should wait til my review (which will probably be late since the boss is going out of the country to adopt another child)..

If it's any consolation, I had a major crying meltdown over the weekend, also job-related. Not because I was mislead by what the job is, but because after five years of outstanding work, I've not been really rewarded for it, apart from infrequent and paltry raises, the most recent of which was two years ago. My mom acknowledging it, while commiserating with me, saying "I know you're struggling, and I never in a million years would have thought that when you started there five years ago, they'd have raised your pay so marginally by now." She was commiserating, not judging, but it just pushed me over the edge in the, "No, this is NOT right" way.

[winneythepooh7]

About what though? I just don't want to come off wrong, or give a bad impression.

Just say that you are having some concerns about your role and need to clarify with her. I also don't see anything wrong with asking for regular supervision. I know sometimes employers expect their workers to be mind-readers, and it doesn't always work that way.

[pisces2473]

Breathe. I think you need to really let her know that you need to have a meeting with her ASAP to discuss some concerns you have about your position. It is better to nip this stuff early on, before it gets completely out of hand, and you get blamed for stuff. Do you make lists? I've always found them to be extremely helpful. I do one every evening on the train home, and look at it on the way into the office in the morning. It helps me focus. Your most important stuff should come before the stupid work, like punching holes in someone's crap.
Oh I know I need to nip it in the bud...but the bosses personal lives are getting mixed w/ company stuff...they own the company, but they are leaving to go out of the country, on conf. calls w/ adoption agency, etc.

Yes, I make a list every night before I go home about what needs to get done the next day.

The punching holes IS important--TO THEM. They need to get this stuff out for a sales conference, and they can't do that if the holes aren't punched!!!!! *sarcasm*

I don't know at what point they really won't care about how I feel...like, at what point is it "suck it up and deal?"

[pisces2473]

Just say that you are having some concerns about your role and need to clarify with her. I also don't see anything wrong with asking for regular supervision. I know sometimes employers expect their workers to be mind-readers, and it doesn't always work that way.
Oh, at that meeting on Tgiving eve, she told me to check in with her about things, if things were getting out of hand, she'd help me w/ prioritizing and trouble shooting.

I just don't want to look like I can't do the job, though.

[pisces2473]

I also don't want to look like I'm being lazy...but when I've got my own letters and things to get out of the office....and then someone comes up to me with a list of things to do, that just burns my ass. I think that this individual needs to know that he cannot just dump stuff on me. I don't know if I should address this with that individual, or my boss. I don't want to complain or seem like I can't handle it, but when he just gives me stuff, it stresses me out b/c I'm thinking "WHEN will I get to this?" and "HOW will I incorporate all of this into my other stuff?"

I think everyone needs to learn HOW to approach me about things they need done. I can't do my projects and assist with theirs. I don't think I do a good enough job--spreading myself too thin, you know?

[winneythepooh7]

Oh I know I need to nip it in the bud...but the bosses personal lives are getting mixed w/ company stuff...they own the company, but they are leaving to go out of the country, on conf. calls w/ adoption agency, etc.

Yes, I make a list every night before I go home about what needs to get done the next day.

The punching holes IS important--TO THEM. They need to get this stuff out for a sales conference, and they can't do that if the holes aren't punched!!!!! *sarcasm*

I don't know at what point they really won't care about how I feel...like, at what point is it "suck it up and deal?"


Hmmm, I see what you are saying. And no one is "in charge" in their abscence either, I am assuming? I don't want to make any judgements on your position, but I am thinking that with "administrative assistant" being part of your duties, that leaves you wide open for having to deal with stuff regularly like the hole punching. I don't know your exact title, so pardon me if I am interpreting this incorrectly.

I also am guessing that a lot of this has to do with your struggle of wanting to be in a different place at this point in your life, and the fact that you have to do administrative asst stuff is very degrading to you.

((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))) Pisces.

[WorkInProgress]

Oh yes, I have a job description. It says something about preparing materials, but to me, punching holes is not what I would do when preparing materials.

Really? When I've prepared materials for, let's say, a course, I've worked on PPT slides, course outlines, editing, printing, binding, stuffing folders, burning CDs, etc. So, while yeah, I sometimes punch holes, it's not all I do in the course of "preparing materials." If it's all you do, I think a talk discussing what exactly you're supposed to be doing would be in order.

[pisces2473]

Hmmm, I see what you are saying. And no one is "in charge" in their abscence either, I am assuming? I don't want to make any judgements on your position, but I am thinking that with "administrative assistant" being part of your duties, that leaves you wide open for having to deal with stuff regularly like the hole punching. I don't know your exact title, so pardon me if I am interpreting this incorrectly.

I also am guessing that a lot of this has to do with your struggle of wanting to be in a different place at this point in your life, and the fact that you have to do administrative asst stuff is very degrading to you.

((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))) Pisces.
Shit, I just heard "Should we tell Jen to start this now?" Great.

Nope, no one's really in charge while they're gone. Could be a week, could be two weeks.

I don't think you're incorrect ;)

YES it is EXTREMELY degrading to me. But obv. I can't say that. I feel like I am tons more qualified to do other things.

I will email some of you my job description later.

[wordsmith]

Here, we actually do have a problem with people sloughing off work on others that they have absolutely no right to slough off, and I've gotten really good about not accepting that.

I don't do it combatively, I do it nicely and diplomatically, but in a way that lets them know I know what they're doing. If GM comes up and is like, "I need to you follow up on this blah blah blah...which is really something HE should have followed up on, and not my job at all, I just smile and say, "Oh, you know, I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I'll get done with X and X and X and X....(all things that ARE my job and are clearly my top priority) in time to handle that in a timely manner...sorry about that."

There are some things that are a team effort, and I'm not averse to taking one for the team if it's necessary. But I've been working long enough to know the difference between pitching in on a team effort, and somebody trying to convince you that they're asking you to "be a team player," when really, they're just trying to make you do part of their job for them.

[pisces2473]

Really? When I've prepared materials for, let's say, a course, I've worked on PPT slides, course outlines, editing, printing, binding, stuffing folders, burning CDs, etc. So, while yeah, I sometimes punch holes, it's not all I do in the course of "preparing materials." If it's all you do, I think a talk discussing what exactly you're supposed to be doing would be in order.
Here's what the email said:

3. Once the content, order of that content, and packaging plan has been finalized, I'd love Jen's help on printing things out (we'll be doing it all in order this time, so that the collating process isn't so time-consuming).
4. After everything's printed out, we'll need to hole-punch all the pages that are going to go into the plastic black folders--it would be wonderful if Jen could take some time to do this. (Jen, I have the hole punch in my cube)

I have a bunch of stuff to get done for MY JOB. My boss told me on Weds. that my priorities right now were my letters and getting art files. Those are top.

Nothign about the other people..........

[Kitty]

Jen, because you're still relatively new, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to have a talk with your boss about what your expected to do and what your job duties are. it's perfectly fine to tell her that based on your intrepration of your job duties, you didn't think you would be doing x and x. Just make her be VERY clear about what it is you are expected to do.

ETA: Go into that meeting with your documenation of how much time you're spending doing this crap and what it is you're doing.

[CTGirl]

Here's what the email said:

3. Once the content, order of that content, and packaging plan has been finalized, I'd love Jen's help on printing things out (we'll be doing it all in order this time, so that the collating process isn't so time-consuming).
4. After everything's printed out, we'll need to hole-punch all the pages that are going to go into the plastic black folders--it would be wonderful if Jen could take some time to do this. (Jen, I have the hole punch in my cube)

I have a bunch of stuff to get done for MY JOB. My boss told me on Weds. that my priorities right now were my letters and getting art files. Those are top.

Nothign about the other people..........

This sounds to me like they are hoping that you have spare time, and that you can help them out. If, however, you do not have the spare time they're hoping for, it looks like you could just tell them you can't fit it in. Using words like "I'd love" and "it would be wonderful" says to me that they are not directly asking you to do it, but asking for you to step up if you can.

I had issues with this at my last job. I got handed some stuff that was insulting because it took them more time to tell me to do it than to do it themselves (like sending me an email asking me to put things in THEIR calendars :rolleyes: ). The thing is though, in a small office, if you're on the bottom of the totem pole (not sure if you are or not) then you're gonna get asked to help out the others, and that's just how it works for the most part.

[pisces2473]

Jen, because you're still relatively new, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to have a talk with your boss about what your expected to do and what your job duties are. it's perfectly fine to tell her that based on your intrepration of your job duties, you didn't think you would be doing x and x. Just make her be VERY clear about what it is you are expected to do.

ETA: Go into that meeting with your documenation of how much time you're spending doing this crap and what it is you're doing.
Okay...I just feel like the boss & I are always talking about this. And the fact that it's being reiterated is making me wonder if they are thinking that I can't handle this job.

I feel like I get mixed messages. This and this is top priority...but then other people are winging things at me, and boss says I have to help them too...but it's nearly impossible to get it all done, including answering the phones, dealing w/ FedEx, UPS, mailman, Staples guy, random cold-calling people.

What I think is that they need a receptionist for the random tasks. Then I wouldn't mind helping everyone else so much.

[cheshrcarol]

Jen, I'd first of all reply back to whoever wrote that e-mail and let her know exactly what you just said. Say "I'd be happy to help out, but X said that my highest priority today should be ____. If I get some time later, I will let you know." If you she tells you her hole punching is more important, just go with it. But she should know you have been specifically told what's most important for you to work on.

And then e-mail your boss and say you'd like to go over a few things when she gets a chance on whatever day she gets back. And again, tell her you're happy to help other people out, but you'd just like to clarify what your responsibilties are, and what's appropriate for other people to ask for help with.

IMO, if you have your own work to do, other people should do their own stupid hole punching. Espeically if they're not your superiors.

[pisces2473]

This sounds to me like they are hoping that you have spare time, and that you can help them out. If, however, you do not have the spare time they're hoping for, it looks like you could just tell them you can't fit it in. Using words like "I'd love" and "it would be wonderful" says to me that they are not directly asking you to do it, but asking for you to step up if you can.

I had issues with this at my last job. I got handed some stuff that was insulting because it took them more time to tell me to do it than to do it themselves (like sending me an email asking me to put things in THEIR calendars :rolleyes: ). The thing is though, in a small office, if you're on the bottom of the totem pole (not sure if you are or not) then you're gonna get asked to help out the others, and that's just how it works for the most part.
To me, those phrases seem really passive aggressive, and that I SHOULD be able to get that stuff done for them. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong?

[Kitty]

Well, if it makes you feel any better I still have weekly meetings with my boss to go over priorities, deadlines, expectations, etc. And I've been here 2 years.

[wordsmith]

The thing is though, in a small office, if you're on the bottom of the totem pole (not sure if you are or not) then you're gonna get asked to help out the others, and that's just how it works for the most part.

Actually very true, and generally the case regardless of your position on the totem pole, depending on the size and structure of the workplace. I LOVE small offices, but it does seem to go with the territory that your job description in smaller workplaces has a pretty big flexible space left open for "other duties as required."

[pisces2473]

Well, if it makes you feel any better I still have weekly meetings with my boss to go over priorities, deadlines, expectations, etc. And I've been here 2 years.
Wow, okay then!

Right now, I feel like I can totally tell her how I feel...but when push comes to shove, I'll get flustered, forget everything I was going to say, and then become a "yes ma'am."

[WorkInProgress]

Here's what the email said:

3. Once the content, order of that content, and packaging plan has been finalized, I'd love Jen's help on printing things out (we'll be doing it all in order this time, so that the collating process isn't so time-consuming).
4. After everything's printed out, we'll need to hole-punch all the pages that are going to go into the plastic black folders--it would be wonderful if Jen could take some time to do this. (Jen, I have the hole punch in my cube)

I have a bunch of stuff to get done for MY JOB. My boss told me on Weds. that my priorities right now were my letters and getting art files. Those are top.

Nothign about the other people..........

Yeah, weird.

Maybe just shoot an email to your boss and ask (for this time, right now) whether she'd like you to bump that other stuff up on your priority list.

And then, when she gets back, perhaps schedule a talk with her, as others have said, for futher clarification of your general duties and requirements, since you're still kinda new.

[WorkInProgress]

Wow, okay then!

Right now, I feel like I can totally tell her how I feel...but when push comes to shove, I'll get flustered, forget everything I was going to say, and then become a "yes ma'am."

I try to have a good outline going into an important talk like this because otherwise I tend to forget things.

[CTGirl]

To me, those phrases seem really passive aggressive, and that I SHOULD be able to get that stuff done for them. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong?

Well, you know these people better than I do, but I would not have interpreted them that way at all. I see this as them really wanting your help, but not directly asking you to do anything, understanding that you have to volunteer your time first.

[Kitty]

Seriously, one of your boss's role as a manager is to make sure you're clear on these things, that you have your priorities figured out, and that you know what is expected of you.

Part of the reason my last boss sucked so much is becasue I was completely and totally confused in all those areas.

at least here I know where I stand and where they'd like to see me in a year.

[wordsmith]

To me, those phrases seem really passive aggressive, and that I SHOULD be able to get that stuff done for them. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong?

Hard to say.

I know when I was less comfortable in my role of delegating stuff, I often phrased things as "It would be great if you would..." etc. just because it seemed more nice and respectful than, "You...do this." But it led to people thinking that stuff was optional, and understandably, so, so now I phrase things more like, "I need you to make sure that ____", versus "It would be great if you could make sure that ______." More firm and clear, but not necessarily making me feel like I'm cracking out orders, more just assigning duties.

[wordsmith]

Well, if it makes you feel any better I still have weekly meetings with my boss to go over priorities, deadlines, expectations, etc. And I've been here 2 years.

We have these every single week for EVERYONE IN our department, no matter how long they've been here. Me, my publisher, and the other writers. Every week.

[Kitty]

We have these every single week for EVERYONE IN our department, no matter how long they've been here. Me, my publisher, and the other writers. Every week.

Yup, it's really important and you're never left guessing.

[winneythepooh7]

I agree with everyone so far. I like Carol's ideas as well. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with meeting for supervision. In fact, I think it makes you look like you are on your game. I get super frustrated with staff who never meet with me or send me emails at least about what is going on with them and their clients. I also feel as a supervisor, there is no such thing as a "stupid" question. I ask them all the time. And you'd be surprised the amount of times my superiors didn't know the answers!!

I also have an assistant, and I always ask her to do things if she has time, I tell her what is a priority task, etc.

[pisces2473]

Okay, I wrote back:

Finally getting back to this email...

(Boss)and I met on Weds. night and my top priorities right now are me getting out the (XYZ) letters and the (blah blah) mailings, as well as my requests for (stuff). If I can find some time to help with the packaging, I will.

Jen

[pisces2473]

Hard to say.

I know when I was less comfortable in my role of delegating stuff, I often phrased things as "It would be great if you would..." etc. just because it seemed more nice and respectful than, "You...do this." But it led to people thinking that stuff was optional, and understandably, so, so now I phrase things more like, "I need you to make sure that ____", versus "It would be great if you could make sure that ______." More firm and clear, but not necessarily making me feel like I'm cracking out orders, more just assigning duties.
Yeah, my old boss---straight outta Office Space. "Hey Jennnnnnnn???? You know what I'd really like you to doooooo???"

[winneythepooh7]

Go you! I am glad you are advocating for yourself early on. I've seen too many times when I've gone above and beyond, and then people know that and take advantage of it.

[pisces2473]

I just realized--my boss is WAY diff. than my last boss. My last boss was like, "Do whatever, get the work done, etc." Didn't want me checking in, always busy busy, etc. This boss has more time to "chat" with me about stuff.

I wrote my boss an email:
Hi (boss):

Hope you had a great Thanksgiving and that (son) is doing okay....

When you get back to the office, could we meet again? After our brief meeting on Weds. night, I had some thoughts that I'd like to discuss with you. Also, several things have landed on my desk today and I'd like to get your opinion about prioritizing and implementing a procedure on how to handle these in future.

Thanks!
Jen

[winneythepooh7]

I just realized--my boss is WAY diff. than my last boss. My last boss was like, "Do whatever, get the work done, etc." Didn't want me checking in, always busy busy, etc. This boss has more time to "chat" with me about stuff.

I wrote my boss an email:
Hi (boss):

Hope you had a great Thanksgiving and that (son) is doing okay....

When you get back to the office, could we meet again? After our brief meeting on Weds. night, I had some thoughts that I'd like to discuss with you. Also, several things have landed on my desk today and I'd like to get your opinion about prioritizing and implementing a procedure on how to handle these in future.

Thanks!
Jen

Awesome!! Who knows? Maybe she needs to remind the other staff that you aren't their gopher. I've had this happen here, where some of my staff will come off as giving orders to the direct care staff, and they are not their supervisor. It always helps to clarify roles and duties with everyone.