Getting into Top MBA with low GPA?

[YoungandPoor]

This is somewhat similar to the previous post, but with a bit of a twist.

Can a person with solid work experience (~5 years), and a good GMAT score get into one of the top MBA programs although they had a mediocre undergrad GPA (3.0)?

Just asking because I wasn't as serious about career/education in my college days although became very serious later on...I know schools take this into consideration, but would is it really enough?

One of buddies suggested I go for a lesser degree just to show I'm now more serious about education and get my grades up. I would love to do this although spending the time and money is a bit overwhelming.

[Kitty]

It's really insanely competitive when you're talking about the top MBA programs (I'm thinking like the top 5 or so). I think you should still apply, but it probably will hurt your chances.

[cheshrcarol]

You're much better off asking the school than asking us. I got into a very good grad school with a < 3.0 GPA, but I'm sure there's lots of other factors that contributed to that: 6 years work experience, good GRE scores, the program's new and not competitive yet, and a really good (if I do say so myself ;) ) essay about my reasons for wanting to go back to school and change fields.

I also spent a lot of time in contact with the school and the very first conversation I had with someone there I explained my situation and asked if it was worthwhile to pursue it.

[red]

i hope so! i had mediocre grades in school and i am thinking of taking the GMAT. so i guess we'll see what happens!

[yankeeyosh]

I have to be honest. It's very doubtful. Top business schools (or any grad schools for that matter) have very high standards. I don't know how it would compare to getting into an Ivy League school for undergrad, which essentially requires you curing cancer and winning a Pulitzer at the same time. But I would suspect it is in the same ballpark. However, due to the proliferation of grad schools these days, it's amazingly easy to get into *somewhere*. As recently as ten years ago...you needed a high GPA to get in. Not anymore.

[winneythepooh7]

You're much better off asking the school than asking us. I got into a very good grad school with a < 3.0 GPA, but I'm sure there's lots of other factors that contributed to that: 6 years work experience, good GRE scores, the program's new and not competitive yet, and a really good (if I do say so myself ;) ) essay about my reasons for wanting to go back to school and change fields.

I also spent a lot of time in contact with the school and the very first conversation I had with someone there I explained my situation and asked if it was worthwhile to pursue it.

I totally agree. I know plenty of people who had mediocre GPA's as well as degrees related nothing to their Master's who have gotten into really good schools for Master's programs. I have a good friend who is in a really good MBA program and she was a theatre major and her grades weren't great. She even failed some courses at one point in her college career. Don't listen to people on here especially who only think they know what they are talking about! Good luck to you!!

[Kitty]

Don't listen to people on here especially who only think they know what they are talking about! Good luck to you!!

I don't know who you're talking about, but I work for a University which ranks in the top 5 for MBA programs and so I'm not just talking out of my ass here. Also, there's a difference between a school that's just "really good" and a school that's a "top" school - the standards get harder and harder when you're talking about the top schools.

[yankeeyosh]

I totally agree. I know plenty of people who had mediocre GPA's as well as degrees related nothing to their Master's who have gotten into really good schools for Master's programs. I have a good friend who is in a really good MBA program and she was a theatre major and her grades weren't great. She even failed some courses at one point in her college career. Don't listen to people on here especially who only think they know what they are talking about! Good luck to you!!

It's possible, but it's very unlikely. If it doesn't require that great a record, then we might as well have everyone apply to Wharton or Harv. Business....and thus continuing to lower the standards of post-baccalaureate education.

[winneythepooh7]

I don't know who you're talking about, but I work for a University which ranks in the top 5 for MBA programs and so I'm not just talking out of my ass here. Also, there's a difference between a school that's just "really good" and a school that's a "top" school - the standards get harder and harder when you're talking about the top schools.

I wasn't talking about you, trust me.

[skigirl227]

I know first hand that you stand a chance with these top programs. My ex had a 3.0 from Northwestern undergrad (engineering) and a solid work record of being promoted (3 years but had 2 different jobs). He got a 780 on his GMAT and got into Stanford and U Penn. You have nothing to lose but only to gain.

Plus, a lot of business recruiters look favorably on good business school graduates that aren't in the Ivys, because they are more humble and hard-working. UVA, Emory, Georgetown come to mind...

Focus on getting awesome recommendations (that specifically highlight your achievements and strengths) and writing really good essays. Brining up your hobbies that set you apart. And you should be a shoo in at least for Top 20 programs...

Also, I had a 3.3 in undergrad (slightly better than mediocre), had a lot of leadership extra curricular positions in college, just 2.5 years of BUSINESS work exp. with no significant promotions, great recommendations, but low GRE scores in the mid 500s. With this, I got into Columbia's graduate education school in NYC. I think my program had a 33% acceptance rate. So Ivys are not as hard as they appear to get into.

[yankeeyosh]

Honestly, if it's so easy to get into an Ivy League school, then why are kids today killing themselves...doing every extra curricular under the sun, a million APs, volunteer, music camps, SAT prep, etc (and even tons of these people get rejected eventuallY)? Something doesn't add up....

[cache]

Honestly, if it's so easy to get into an Ivy League school, then why are kids today killing themselves...doing every extra curricular under the sun, a million APs, volunteer, music camps, SAT prep, etc (and even tons of these people get rejected eventuallY)? Something doesn't add up....

Grad program, not undergrad.

[yankeeyosh]

Grad program, not undergrad.

Well, if they're letting people with 3.0 into Wharton (or any Ivy) these days, then post-baccalaureate education today is in a really sorry state (which I have suspected already given some of the people I've seen getting master's and Ph. D.'s)

[CityGal]

I know first hand that you stand a chance with these top programs. My ex had a 3.0 from Northwestern undergrad (engineering) and a solid work record of being promoted (3 years but had 2 different jobs). He got a 780 on his GMAT and got into Stanford and U Penn. You have nothing to lose but only to gain.

Plus, a lot of business recruiters look favorably on good business school graduates that aren't in the Ivys, because they are more humble and hard-working. UVA, Emory, Georgetown come to mind...

Focus on getting awesome recommendations (that specifically highlight your achievements and strengths) and writing really good essays. Brining up your hobbies that set you apart. And you should be a shoo in at least for Top 20 programs...

Also, I had a 3.3 in undergrad (slightly better than mediocre), had a lot of leadership extra curricular positions in college, just 2.5 years of BUSINESS work exp. with no significant promotions, great recommendations, but low GRE scores in the mid 500s. With this, I got into Columbia's graduate education school in NYC. I think my program had a 33% acceptance rate. So Ivys are not as hard as they appear to get into.

Thank you for your story. Honestly this gives me lots of hopes. If Columbia could look away at your GRE scores than that means there is hope. I understand it is tough as S&*& to get into top schools but your story made me believe in miracles again.

[red]

Well, if they're letting people with 3.0 into Wharton (or any Ivy) these days, then post-baccalaureate education today is in a really sorry state (which I have suspected already given some of the people I've seen getting master's and Ph. D.'s)

wow. so now you are also the judge of who deserves to do grad work and who doesn't?

i would think that you, of all people, would have a greater sensitivity to the extenuating circumstances that could cause someone to have a bad semester or year.

thanks to the people who contributed positive stories to this thread. it is very encouraging. my grades were only ok when i was in college- but that was almost 10 years ago. i have worked steadily since graduation and i know i could do well on the verbal component of the GMAT. the math will be a challenge but i am willing to put in the work.

i know someone who got into Michigan with a ~3.0 undergrad and an excellent GMAT score, so i'm hopeful. it's a little tricky for me- i couldn't go to Wharton or Harvard, since my going to business school (even PT) depends on my husband supporting me. so we're limited to NYC or places where he could get a transfer.

[LakeJay]

I don't believe this applies to all grad schools but when I thinking about going for my MBA, I spoke to a rep from this pretty good school in the northeast. I asked her about having a "lackluster" undergrad GPA and she said that their program actually used a formula for GPAs and GMAT scores. If your score fell into a particular range then you met one of their requirements. The formula did work in that a lower GPA could be offset by a better than average GMAT score and vice versa. In that sense, a lower GPA will not always keep you out of a good program plus as others have stated there are other things programs look at that will allow them to overlook a lower GPA.

[yankeeyosh]

wow. so now you are also the judge of who deserves to do grad work and who doesn't?

i would think that you, of all people, would have a greater sensitivity to the extenuating circumstances that could cause someone to have a bad semester or year.


I just think the value of a graduate degree has been devalued tremendously in the last ten years. It's not that I feel that people with a low GPA should necessarily be left out completely, but I don't think they should be in a "top tier" program. I have seen firsthand why. People (NOT learning disabled) partying most nights... getting 'A's for effort...writing master's theses that barely would be sufficient for a term paper...people being able to take a class over again at the UNDERGRADUATE level and getting their incomplete grade replaced...and sadly, in the end these people are on equal footing as someone who toiled 18 hours a day in the lab for two years.

And also, just because you don't go to a top tier program doesn't mean you won't be successful. Many people who attend middle-of-the-road programs, whether in UG or grad school, turn out very successful.

[shimma]

I just think the value of a graduate degree has been devalued tremendously in the last ten years. It's not that I feel that people with a low GPA should necessarily be left out completely, but I don't think they should be in a "top tier" program. I have seen firsthand why. People (NOT learning disabled) partying most nights... getting 'A's for effort...writing master's theses that barely would be sufficient for a term paper...people being able to take a class over again at the UNDERGRADUATE level and getting their incomplete grade replaced...and sadly, in the end these people are on equal footing as someone who toiled 18 hours a day in the lab for two years.

The way I see it though, Mark, is there are just different things people can get away with. I say that if someone can party most nights and still do A-quality work, then they're probably pretty damn smart. Unusually smart, but it's the results, not the effort that count in the real world.

[yankeeyosh]

The way I see it though, Mark, is there are just different things people can get away with. I say that if someone can party most nights and still do A-quality work, then they're probably pretty damn smart. Unusually smart, but it's the results, not the effort that count in the real world.

The point is...it's NOT A-quality work. I've seen it. Trust me.

[yankeeyosh]

Frankly, the educational system today...esp. higher ed...is nothing more than a credential mill. Nothing more.

[cheshrcarol]

I just think the value of a graduate degree has been devalued tremendously in the last ten years. It's not that I feel that people with a low GPA should necessarily be left out completely, but I don't think they should be in a "top tier" program. I have seen firsthand why. People (NOT learning disabled) partying most nights... getting 'A's for effort...writing master's theses that barely would be sufficient for a term paper...people being able to take a class over again at the UNDERGRADUATE level and getting their incomplete grade replaced...and sadly, in the end these people are on equal footing as someone who toiled 18 hours a day in the lab for two years.

And also, just because you don't go to a top tier program doesn't mean you won't be successful. Many people who attend middle-of-the-road programs, whether in UG or grad school, turn out very successful.I didn't have a high gpa in undergrad. In fact I had to get a special waiver by the graduate school to be allowed admission. I don't think that the person I am today is at all defined by the gpa I got between 6 and 10 years ago. BTW, I am in a top tier school.

And Mark, maybe your experiences at what, 2 schools, were that way. That doesn't mean every college is like that. The program I'm in now is a ton of work. And I am definitely not getting A's for effort. I know this is part of your disability, but I really wish you could try and see outside of your narrow box.

[yankeeyosh]

I didn't have a high gpa in undergrad. In fact I had to get a special waiver by the graduate school to be allowed admission. I don't think that the person I am today is at all defined by the gpa I got between 6 and 10 years ago. BTW, I am in a top tier school.

And Mark, maybe your experiences at what, 2 schools, were that way. That doesn't mean every college is like that. The program I'm in now is a ton of work. And I am definitely not getting A's for effort. I know this is part of your disability, but I really wish you could try and see outside of your narrow box.

It is not just where I went to school. I spoke to professors...one of whom is only a few years older than me, and they have been around the circuit. They agree 100% with me. Graduate education has turned from something someone does out of a pure interest in a subject matter into something people do out of pumping up their resumes. If you have a pure interest, good for you. I'm not saying you're unqualified. However, there are many, many people who do it just because their parents tell them to do it or because "everyone else is doing it". And it's not just the lower GPAs...grade inflation is rampant, and a lot of high GPAs are masquerading people's true abilities. I really think admissions should be revamped from soup to nuts.

The reason I bring up the lower GPA's is that it is a red flag that they might not take studying seriously. People who have been out of school for years might say differently, and they say they changed. Fine...what I would do is ask them to take a few graduate level courses as a non-matriculated student. If they perform well, they can be admitted. But initially, I would not treat someone who historically had a B average the same as an A student when it comes to grad school.

[shimma]

But initially, I would not treat someone who historically had a B average the same as an A student when it comes to grad school.
Does work experience not count? I've learned a lot on the job, probably much more than in school

Also, not all B averages are the same. I had a 3.3 from one of the most difficult undergraduate programs on this planet, which involved living and breathing studying, my senior thesis was about "the economic and political implications of growing and distributing medicinal frankenfood in the developing world"; see the difference from my friend who went to another school, never cracked a book, wrote a senior thesis entitled "what is a pesticide?" and got the same GPA?

[cheshrcarol]

The reason I bring up the lower GPA's is that it is a red flag that they might not take studying seriously. People who have been out of school for years might say differently, and they say they changed. Fine...what I would do is ask them to take a few graduate level courses as a non-matriculated student. If they perform well, they can be admitted. But initially, I would not treat someone who historically had a B average the same as an A student when it comes to grad school.Well, luckily you weren't on my admissions committee.

[winneythepooh7]

Life is not fair Mark. You more than anyone should know that. And I think you are transferring your emotions about your own situation onto others.

[yankeeyosh]

Does work experience not count? I've learned a lot on the job, probably much more than in school

Also, not all B averages are the same. I had a 3.3 from one of the most difficult undergraduate programs on this planet, which involved living and breathing studying, my senior thesis was about "the economic and political implications of growing and distributing medicinal frankenfood in the developing world"; see the difference from my friend who went to another school, never cracked a book, wrote a senior thesis entitled "what is a pesticide?" and got the same GPA?

It counts to some degree, but being a diligent worker doesn't necessarily mean being a diligent student. Some of the most successful people out there are simply not grad school material. But I do wish the system was like it was ten years ago, when you needed 5 years' working experience if you wanted to get into an MBA program.

And I would factor undergrad school to some degree...although it depends. Grade inflation is so rampant these days that it's hard to compare. But if you have a borderline GPA from a school that is known to be difficult (Cornell vs. Harvard, for instance), that could be taken into consideration. And any research done at the undergrad level is a big plus.

[red]

i'm not the OP, but this thread is getting pretty negative and i am losing interest though i am interested in a discussion of this topic. is it possible to keep it more constructive or should i start a new thread to discuss admission to grad/business school?

[yankeeyosh]

Well, luckily you weren't on my admissions committee.

So what would your standards be for admission? Please explain...

[winneythepooh7]

i'm not the OP, but this thread is getting pretty negative and i am losing interest though i am interested in a discussion of this topic. is it possible to keep it more constructive or should i start a new thread to discuss admission to grad/business school?

I agree. It's getting ridiculous now.

[Winter Storm]

i'm not the OP, but this thread is getting pretty negative and i am losing interest though i am interested in a discussion of this topic. is it possible to keep it more constructive or should i start a new thread to discuss admission to grad/business school?
Wow, after reading this, I had ro go back and red the thread and I agree, this one has goten poo-pooed on.

You could bring things back to the original topic.

[shimma]

It counts to some degree, but being a diligent worker doesn't necessarily mean being a diligent student. Some of the most successful people out there are simply not grad school material. But I do wish the system was like it was ten years ago, when you needed 5 years' working experience if you wanted to get into an MBA program.

But if you are a diligent worker, wouldn't that mean you can apply that work ethic at school and be a good student?

[cheshrcarol]

It counts to some degree, but being a diligent worker doesn't necessarily mean being a diligent student. Some of the most successful people out there are simply not grad school material. But I do wish the system was like it was ten years ago, when you needed 5 years' working experience if you wanted to get into an MBA program
Mark, I really don't know where you get this stuff. Being a dilligent worker should ABSOLUTELY translate into being a diligent student. And no, some people are not cut out to be grad school material. But if you're dedicated and really WANT to do it, that makes all the difference.

And where do you get the information that 5 years ago all mba programs required 5 years experience? I interned at IBM in '99 and most of the interns at my location were mba students. Some went right from undergrad to graduate, some had 2 or 3 years of experience. Most had less than 5. And these were people from top colleges around the country.

And I would factor undergrad school to some degree...although it depends. Grade inflation is so rampant these days that it's hard to compare. But if you have a borderline GPA from a school that is known to be difficult (Cornell vs. Harvard, for instance), that could be taken into consideration. And any research done at the undergrad level is a big plus.
So in this example, which school is supposed to be easy, Cornell or Harvard? :googly:

And not all undergrad programs are appropriate research fields. Mine sure wasn't.

[winneythepooh7]

So what would your standards be for admission? Please explain...

That they are 22 and entitled.

[cheshrcarol]

So what would your standards be for admission? Please explain...
I would loved to continue arguing this, because I am kind of offended. but Red and Winter are right, this thread has gotten off topic.

[yankeeyosh]

I've had enough. I'm tired of being mocked and jeered. I won't say anymore.

[winneythepooh7]

I didn't apply to Columbia or NYU which are really great schools of SW because I didn't think I had the grades for them either. Now I wonder if I would have gotten in if I gave it a shot? I have since met a lot of people who were "eh" students in undergrad who got into both.

[AshleyJordan]

I didn't apply to Columbia or NYU which are really great schools of SW because I didn't think I had the grades for them either. Now I wonder if I would have gotten in if I gave it a shot? I have since met a lot of people who were "eh" students in undergrad who got into both.

Interesting. I was wondering the same thing. At least in my field, I don't feel that I'm at a disadvantage not having gone to a top school, though. . . I've still done pretty well and made all of the same contacts, etc.

[winneythepooh7]

Interesting. I was wondering the same thing. At least in my field, I don't feel that I'm at a disadvantage not having gone to a top school, though. . . I've still done pretty well and made all of the same contacts, etc.

Oh, me too. I also had a really good experience at the school that I went to, and it offered me other advantages, such as being able to use my job as my field placement. I am pretty positive (and I have to confirm) that NYU and Columbia don't have that kind of program. There was no way I could not have not worked while in grad school.

Looking back though, my advice is to go for it, wherever you want to apply. The worst thing is you won't get in and you shell out the $$ for the application.

[AshleyJordan]

Looking back though, my advice is to go for it, wherever you want to apply. The worst thing is you won't get in and you shell out the $$ for the application.


I agree-- I applied to only one school for undergrad and one for grad. I always wonder "what if?" because although I loved both, I would've just liked to know if I could've gotten into NYU or Columbia!

[red]

i am limited in my choices because i'd prefer not to relocate. anyway, i think it's true that some people are good workers and some people are good students and some are both. i am looking to go to business school- and the ultimate result of b-school is work not academia. so hopefully i am choosing something that i can succeed at. the only thing that worries me is that i think i would have done better in undergrad if i hadn't had to work so much, but i'd probably have to work while i get an MBA... not sure about that. also we want to have kids someday. but i'm getting ahead of myself!

i'm actually very interested in whether it is worth paying the tuition to go to a good school or not... i know people who go to NYU and it's really $$$. i have heard from some people that an MBA from a good school (assuming i wouldn't get into a TOP school) is an investment and from some that once you're working for a few years it won't be so important where you went and it's better to go somewhere cheaper so you won't be drowning in loans.

[AshleyJordan]

Mmmm. . . not so sure. I know a lot of very well-off corporate types here in NYC who got their MBA's from Baruch (a CUNY school I'm sure you're familiar with.)

[red]

my friend goes to Baruch. she's the one who decided to go with Baruch so as to make it more affordable.

[winneythepooh7]

Well for my field since it's low-paying anyways, it's probably wise to go to a lower-cost school. It's also interesting to note that Hunter, a public school, is one of the best in the nation for my field. Because tuition is so much less though, you stand a bigger chance of getting wait-listed. I also heard they are really picky about the experience thing there. Bottom line though, we can give all of our advice, but still, you should probably just apply to where you want to go. I know a lot of people go to NYU who want to do private practice which totally turns me off. I am sure there's a lot more $$ in that though...

[CTGirl]

i'm actually very interested in whether it is worth paying the tuition to go to a good school or not... i know people who go to NYU and it's really $$$. i have heard from some people that an MBA from a good school (assuming i wouldn't get into a TOP school) is an investment and from some that once you're working for a few years it won't be so important where you went and it's better to go somewhere cheaper so you won't be drowning in loans.

I think that the school you get your MBA from might help you land your first "real" job or whatever, but after that, no one seems to care where you went, just that you have those letters after your name. I suppose though, that if you get it from Yale or Harvard or something that you could brag about that on a more long term basis, lol :p

[winneythepooh7]

I suppose though, that if you get it from Yale or Harvard or something that you could brag about that on a more long term basis, lol :p

Hi, Woods, comma, Elle ;).

[CTGirl]

Hi, Woods, comma, Elle ;).

lol, I love that movie!

Oh, and with redards to Baruch, I've heard they're really good for my field (IO Psych) which is closely related to MBA stuff.

[red]

yeah, i went to a cheap school for my undergrad and i'm very glad i did (although i checked out the tuition recently and between the tuition hikes and the weak US dollar against the canadian dollar it now costs almost as much PER YEAR as it cost for my entire education!!) CRAZY! so i'm not usually big on names and it's hard for me to get into the idea of taking out massive loans.

i'll probably just end up applying to several schools in the area, some more competitive than others.

[MrNCG23]

To original OP:

What kind of work xp do you have? Most MBA programs want to see some sort of demonstrated leadership potential. Even so, it is highly competitive as I am sure you know. I am in the same boat as you, so I would say go for it but don't be disappointed if you don't get into your dream school.

As far as your GPA, in my opinion you're not going to stand out if you have a 3.0 GPA and you're not going to stand out if you have a 3.4 GPA. My point is, IMHO the GPA is more of a filter rather than basing heavy decisions on. Same goes w/ GMAT. I would think more weight would be given to quality of work experience, quantity, demonstrated skills, etc.

I'm not knocking you, just stating what I believe. I have a GPA lower than yours and I want to get into a top MBA school too.

[sondra_finchley]

To what extent does quality of an undergrad school you attended count? I went to a state school that didnt really stretch me and is sort of up and coming- but not in the departments I was associated with (except one I guess). I didnt care and my undergrad results were down in the 3.4 range while my grad - hell I dont even know, but its probably at the same level. Im interested in going for an MBA in a few years time, once I sort out exactly what area Im most interested, and to get into the best school that I can for that. You can go get another masters in anything, but MBA- only one shot at that.

My friends awful bf went to Cal and got a 3.3 undergrad in anthro, then went working for Schwab (just local offices, nothing major) and now does something credit related at some bank in Orange County. He couldnt get much more than mid 500s on his GMATs, and even though he had all this finance work experience (he wanted to get into wealth management *rolls eyes) even his alma mater of Cal (Haas) wouldnt take him back. He didnt get into ANYWHERE- and he applied to all the top schools thinking he was something hot.

[MrNCG23]

My friends awful bf went to Cal and got a 3.3 undergrad in anthro, then went working for Schwab (just local offices, nothing major) and now does something credit related at some bank in Orange County. He couldnt get much more than mid 500s on his GMATs, and even though he had all this finance work experience (he wanted to get into wealth management *rolls eyes) even his alma mater of Cal (Haas) wouldnt take him back. He didnt get into ANYWHERE- and he applied to all the top schools thinking he was something hot.

Well one thing is that Haas is tough to get into. 2nd his GMAT is a bit low, possibly even out of the range. 3rd I'm not sure what he did for Schwab, but if it was financial sales, it's tough to get into wealth mgmt. I would also question why he is pursuing a MBA - usually people who want to do PWM take the CFA, so if he didn't take that I could see admissions wondering if he was really serious.

[sondra_finchley]

Good points Mr. Ive never met the guy, but for all her complaining about him (until a few years ago I finally had to tell her I couldnt listen or help her with her problems regarding him anymore because it was too much) I really dont like him- so for him not to succeed was nice for me to see. And yes, he did sales at Schwab ( and was forced to resign over some very off-color remarks made towards the women at a Christmas party). I think he just wanted the MBA to pump himself up some more, and I think he only wants to do PWM for the "prestige". Hes a real hanger-on salesman type.

[crystal_dance]

If you have a low gpa and you're sure that you want to pursure an mba at a top school, you can do several things to improve your application:

1) Build an alternate transcript: If you've been out of school for a few years, you can join a local college/university and take 3 or 4 night (undergrad level) classes in statistics, accounting, calculus and economics. Make sure you get A's in these courses so that you can show the admissions committee that you're serious about coming back to school and that you can handle math.

2) High GMAT score: If you've got a low gpa, you absolutely, positively need a high GMAT score.

3) Community/volunteer work: B school committees love this - Are you actively involved in anything? Have you started any group/club or held a position of leadership there?

4) Work ex: 5+ yrs of experience in a "real" job is the norm. Again, being in a position of leadership/managerial capacity greatly boosts your essay/recommendation letter quality.

I guess the most important thing would be highlighting which qualities set you apart from other applicants. What's your "wow" factor? There are hordes of financial analysts, IT professionals and marketing people who apply to B schools. What makes you sexier than the other person?

[MrNCG23]

I have to agree w/ the above post, I think it is for the most part spot on.

A few minor additional notes:
If low GPA - the alternate transcript, taking classes that crystal_dance mentioned, along w/ GMAT, is really the best way to offset the GPA.

I always hear that B-schools like volunteer work, but I have to wonder how much it really matters. I do think you don't want to give the impression that all you do is work.

Work Exp: I personally might try to go in w/ 4 years, but the avg. work exp. has been increasing steadily in recent years. 5 or 6 years would probably be safer, but I'll see around that time.

Crystal_dance, are you close w/ adcomms or do you know a lot of ppl who go to top MBAs (I'm guessing the latter)? I would be interested in asking a few questions from you through PM.

[crystal_dance]

Crystal_dance, are you close w/ adcomms or do you know a lot of ppl who go to top MBAs (I'm guessing the latter)? I would be interested in asking a few questions from you through PM.

lol, I WISH I was close to the adcomms. I live in New York and work in Finance, so I end up meeting alot of Columbia/Stern/Wharton folks. PM me anytime you want!

[playingbyheart]

I just think the value of a graduate degree has been devalued tremendously in the last ten years. It's not that I feel that people with a low GPA should necessarily be left out completely, but I don't think they should be in a "top tier" program. I have seen firsthand why. People (NOT learning disabled) partying most nights... getting 'A's for effort...writing master's theses that barely would be sufficient for a term paper...people being able to take a class over again at the UNDERGRADUATE level and getting their incomplete grade replaced...and sadly, in the end these people are on equal footing as someone who toiled 18 hours a day in the lab for two years.

And also, just because you don't go to a top tier program doesn't mean you won't be successful. Many people who attend middle-of-the-road programs, whether in UG or grad school, turn out very successful.

But the exact problem with judging anything based on undergrad grades is that they are entirely subjective. I am pretty sure I'm not the only one here who decided to sign up for professor "b's" class because he was known to be an easy grader. On the other hand, I also signed myself up for some really hard classes with tough graders because I wanted to push myself and to learn something new. My GPA is reflective of this. I ended up with a 3.2 GPA with about 320 some-odd quarter hour credits (which translates into approx 200 semester hours). -- I did not go to an Ivy League school. I went to a large private liberal arts school that wasn't too difficult to get into academically (however I went for the theatre conservatory so it was harder to get into that program which was one of the top in the country.) Long story short... I might want to one day go back for an MBA or a graduate degree. I know that I have no shot of getting into a top school because my undergrad grades are all over the map and I honestly don't test well. -- I used to think that folks who went to Yale or Berkeley were MUCH smarter than me and also had harder classes. Maybe the former is true, but now I've dated a guy who went to Yale and one who went to Berkeley and I've heard the classes at these schools are about the same as the classes taught at my large liberal arts school. I'm pretty sure that someone with a 3.2 from Berkeley or Yale stands a much better chance at getting into a top grad school than someone with a 3.2 from a school that can't claim to compete with the Ivies. In the end, though, what does a GPA really mean? I could have graduated with at least a 3.5, if not higher, if I just carefully selected my classes to be "easy." While I take pride in the fact I didn't do that, I'm sure any committee looking at my application won't care.

[Bluffmaster25]

I suppose though, that if you get it from Yale or Harvard or something that you could brag about that on a more long term basis, lol :p

Not really. Only insecure people would brag about their "ivy league" schooling. Most successful people from the schools you mentioned are too busy honing their skills and making strides to worry about that sort of childish behavior.

The only time things get animated when you have H-Y Alums duking it out :D

[yankeeyosh]

But the exact problem with judging anything based on undergrad grades is that they are entirely subjective. I am pretty sure I'm not the only one here who decided to sign up for professor "b's" class because he was known to be an easy grader. On the other hand, I also signed myself up for some really hard classes with tough graders because I wanted to push myself and to learn something new. My GPA is reflective of this. I ended up with a 3.2 GPA with about 320 some-odd quarter hour credits (which translates into approx 200 semester hours). -- I did not go to an Ivy League school. I went to a large private liberal arts school that wasn't too difficult to get into academically (however I went for the theatre conservatory so it was harder to get into that program which was one of the top in the country.) Long story short... I might want to one day go back for an MBA or a graduate degree. I know that I have no shot of getting into a top school because my undergrad grades are all over the map and I honestly don't test well. -- I used to think that folks who went to Yale or Berkeley were MUCH smarter than me and also had harder classes. Maybe the former is true, but now I've dated a guy who went to Yale and one who went to Berkeley and I've heard the classes at these schools are about the same as the classes taught at my large liberal arts school. I'm pretty sure that someone with a 3.2 from Berkeley or Yale stands a much better chance at getting into a top grad school than someone with a 3.2 from a school that can't claim to compete with the Ivies. In the end, though, what does a GPA really mean? I could have graduated with at least a 3.5, if not higher, if I just carefully selected my classes to be "easy." While I take pride in the fact I didn't do that, I'm sure any committee looking at my application won't care.

That is true. I'll give you that. It goes back to the old debate in many competitive High schools of whether to take a million APs and risk a lower GPA or to take easier courses and get a higher GPA but a less "challenging" record. The higher achieving people tend to opt the AP route.

By the way, speaking of AP, how did you get that many credits, if you don't mind me asking? You must have taken every AP under the sun! I had sixteen AP credits going in, but I only ended up with about 150 credits.