Planning to leave law school...parents ENRAGED

[evergreatful]

Ok I just need to vent. So I am a 1L fully financing my legal education by myself. I graduated from college this year with three great internships in Human Resources at an international organization. I worked for that company over the summer with but left to go to law school. I am realizing that being a lawyer is not for me and want to leave after this semester to get back into business. For one I feel like an idiot for giving up what was a great job that I should have been damn grateful for.

Seconly (and the major point) I have made the error of telling my parents and older sister that I am planning on leaving. Wow. Big mistake. Emails and phone calls gallore have basically made me feel like I will be banished from the family if I leave law school. Let's see "I am not giving it enough time", "quitting is terrible", "they will be very dissapointed in me if I leave", etc.

So anyone leave graduate school or have an analogous situation where your family was not behind you? I unfortunately am a baby in some respects and have always needed the emotional support of my family in what I do. Oh well, guess you have to grow up sometime.

Any input would help. Thanks everyone.

-Evergreatful

[winneythepooh7]

I was not a law student, but have dated one, and did a year-long Social Work internship at a law school. I have to say that law school (and graduate school in general) is not something that should be taken lightly. It's a hefty price to pay both financially and emotionally if your heart's not in it. And last I heard, it's not the easiest field to find a job in, either.

[shimma]

Well, I think it's a good thing that you recognize this now. Law school and the legal profession are a lifestyle. (my parents are lawyers).

A couple years ago, I was miserable at my job, didn't like the city I felt "stuck" in when I decided that I was going to use graduate school as my escape hatch. I applied to a bunch of graduate programs.

It didn't make me happer though, to see "the light at the end of the tunnel", I felt more and more unsure and trapped. After some soulsearching, I realized that I didn't know that I wanted to commit myself to grad school and the ensuing loans and stressful job to pay off said loans, I didn't know if I ever wanted that specific Masters degree or even a graduate degree period, and that in general, my existential/happiness/inner peace thing wasn't in line with the whole graduate degree package.

So I didn't go anywhere, stayed at my job, and met and started dating my now-fiance during what would have been the start of my first semester in business school. My parents were also enraged, embarassed, dissapointed in me, had a very difficult time beleiving that J wasn't the reason I passed up on B-school, etc. We had a very strained relationship for the next two years, consisting mostly of fighting, until I put down an ultimatum. Get off my back about the graduate degree, or I'm never coming home again.

Basically, you already know what you want and what's right for you. If someone is too hung up on "my son, the lawyer" to respect that, then you don't need them in your life. YOU'RE the only one you have to look in the eyes in the mirror every morning.

ETA: You can PM me about this anytime.

[yankeeyosh]

It's sad state of affairs in this society that so many parents threaten their children with disownment if they don't follow a certain career path. We are going to have a generation of people miserable with their careers, simply because they are yesmen to the Boom. And the career path you have your heart set on isn't exactly a tenuous one. I would follow your heart...do what you want to do...otherwise, it's nearly guaranteed you'd be unhappy.

[evergreatful]

Thanks everyone for the VERY quick responses. Everyone is so right on. The boomers are a wierd bunch. It is funny that a commentary on boomers lackluster parenting just came onto the AM radio here.

Shimma - I seem to have a pretty analogus situation. I think my parents unfortunately liked telling people their son was going to be an attorney. Also I've met someone who my parents think have a lot to do with my feelings which is so not true at all. I'll shoot you a PM later for that topic.

I think Will Smith was right..."Parents just don't undertstand"

[wordsmith]

My dad, a boomer, quit law school as a 1L, it was long enough to tell him it wasn't for him. His dad, a WWII vet who worked as a cannery foreman and had high hopes for his only son, was disappointed, but he got over it.

[shimma]

Thanks everyone for the VERY quick responses. Everyone is so right on. The boomers are a wierd bunch. It is funny that a commentary on boomers lackluster parenting just came onto the AM radio here.

Shimma - I seem to have a pretty analogus situation. I think my parents unfortunately liked telling people their son was going to be an attorney. Also I've met someone who my parents think have a lot to do with my feelings which is so not true at all. I'll shoot you a PM later for that topic.


Hey, I hope you didn't take what I said the wrong way - I don't think you'll need to cut your folks out of your life, and I don't think they'll disown you, but you may need to do the "reality bitchslap" on them to get them to snap out of it. Graduate school, money, my work ethic, etc are still very touchy subjects, and it's still extremely awkward when someone brings them up in our presence. (They still seem to think I'll "see the light", but the fact is, I don't see their light, I see my own.) And, I've had a very bumpy road getting my parents to like and accept my fiance.

But I'm all ears.

[wordsmith]

P.S. Needing the emotional support of your family doesn't make you a baby, nor is it wrong to feel as if you should be getting that. That's how families ARE supposed to operate. If they don't, it's because they're dropping the ball as parents, not some flaw or weakness with you. Just because you need or want support, of course, doesn't mean you'll get it if that's not how your family is. But it doesn't make you in the wrong for needing that. Children needing the nurturing and emotional support of parents is an innate thing. You don't grow out of it. If you've had a damaging enough experience, you may steel yourself against feeling it, but that's another thing entirely.

[yankeeyosh]

My dad, a boomer, quit law school as a 1L, it was long enough to tell him it wasn't for him. His dad, a WWII vet who worked as a cannery foreman and had high hopes for his only son, was disappointed, but he got over it.

I don't want to get into another generational debate, but I think this generation of parents feel like they have more "control" to program their kids than previous generations. And it's not just the parents. I know of someone (born in 1979) whose bus driver bet his life savings that he would become a lawyer. Talk about pressure.

[shimma]

P.S. Needing the emotional support of your family doesn't make you a baby, nor is it wrong to feel as if you should be getting that. That's how families ARE supposed to operate. If they don't, it's because they're dropping the ball as parents, not some flaw or weakness with you. Just because you need or want support, of course, doesn't mean you'll get it if that's not how your family is. But it doesn't make you in the wrong for needing that. Children needing the nurturing and emotional support of parents is an innate thing. You don't grow out of it. If you've had a damaging enough experience, you may steel yourself against feeling it, but that's another thing entirely.

It's how families are supposed to operate in an ideal world, but many do not. That's why you need a strong enough sense of self and confidence in self-knowledge and your decisions to decide the right thing for you, and stick to it.

[wordsmith]

In my case, my parents never pushed any plans on me. Probably in part because my dad himself didn't like being pushed toward something that wasn't him, and rejected it. But mostly because they're just good parents.

[wordsmith]

It's how families are supposed to operate in an ideal world, but many do not.

Didn't I mention that in my post? My entire point being, if they don't, the problem is them, not you, so don't feel like you're weak for seeking their approval, children are pretty much wired that way unless they make an effort to rewire. Which you might have to do if they're not going to quit dropping the ball as parents.

[yankeeyosh]

In my case, my parents never pushed any plans on me. Probably in part because my dad himself didn't like being pushed toward something that wasn't him, and rejected it. But mostly because they're just good parents.

I think this is why I feel that our generation will not be pressuring as parents. We don't want to make the same mistakes that many of our parents did. The only fly in the ointment is if Grandma and Grandpa Boomer are the ones who really do the "raising" of the kids.

[wordsmith]

I know of someone (born in 1979) whose bus driver bet his life savings that he would become a lawyer.

What does this even mean? I mean, my entire life, I've had people tell me, "Gee, you sure like to argue, Jess, did you ever consider law?" Including law student peers. I can't say I ever felt that as pressure or anybody expecting me to get a JD. Just that they felt it might suit my temperament (I disagree, but that's just me).

[shimma]

Didn't I mention that in my post?

you did. I'm just bitter today.

[wordsmith]

I think this is why I feel that our generation will not be pressuring as parents. We don't want to make the same mistakes that many of our parents did. The only fly in the ointment is if Grandma and Grandpa Boomer are the ones who really do the "raising" of the kids.

But my parents ARE boomers...so how does that square?

[WorkInProgress]

I think this is why I feel that our generation will not be pressuring as parents. We don't want to make the same mistakes that many of our parents did.

Maybe. I could see it going that way, or following in their footsteps.

[shimma]

What does this even mean? I mean, my entire life, I've had people tell me, "Gee, you sure like to argue, Jess, did you ever consider law?" Including law student peers. I can't say I ever felt that as pressure or anybody expecting me to get a JD. Just that they felt it might suit my temperament (I disagree, but that's just me).

I think "in theory" you'd be a good lawyer - if it was just a job not a lifestyle. You'd be great at the job, but ill-suited to the lifestyle.

which is a compliment.

[wordsmith]

No question that I'd be ill-suited to the lifestyle. But I doubt I'd be well-suited to the job, either. I don't think quickly on my feet (need time to sit back, reflect, and put together my argument, can't shoot from the hip at all), am a poor public speaker, and don't do a particularly good job of commanding a room.

[yankeeyosh]

But my parents ARE boomers...so how does that square?

Ah, but you said your father was pressured by his father. That's a reason why.

[shimma]

I don't think quickly on my feet (need time to sit back, reflect, and put together my argument, can't shoot from the hip at all), am a poor public speaker, and don't do a particularly good job of commanding a room.

I've never met you, but it would suprise me a bit if any of that were really true.

[wordsmith]

You'd be surprised.

[shimma]

You'd be surprised.
I'll take your word for it. ;):

[wordsmith]

Ah, but you said your father was pressured by his father. That's a reason why.

So you agree with me, then, that environmental factors, upbringing, and socioeconomics trump year of birth as influences?

[and1grad]

I think parents believe they ARE being supportive by questioning such a decision. The problem, to me, is that they confuse your ability to know what is best for you with what THEY think is best for you. Honestly, evergreatful, if you ARE sure you want to leave, you're damn lucky to have figured it out NOW rather than have gone through and earned all the debt for a degree you dont plan to use. Its nice when your parents have your back but you dont NEED their support...especially if they're not financing your schooling anyway.

[wordsmith]

I think parents believe they ARE being supportive by questioning such a decision. The problem, to me, is that they confuse your ability to know what is best for you with what THEY think is best for you. Honestly, evergreatful, if you ARE sure you want to leave, you're damn lucky to have figured it out NOW rather than have gone through and earned all the debt for a degree you dont plan to use. Its nice when your parents have your back but you dont NEED their support...especially if they're not financing your schooling anyway.


Eh...questioning your decision to prod you to make sure you've thought through the pros and cons fully...yes, you're 100% right, that's good parenting, and being supportive.

Expressly telling or passively implying that something that is in the end your own decision to make for yourself is going to be the determining factor in your family's acceptance of you as a person? Guilt tripping? Playing the "We'll be so disappointed in you" card? Neither supportive nor good parenting.

But you're right...parents may BELIEVE they're being supportive and doing a good job of parenting by putting on the pressure and playing unfair games. But they're not.

[and1grad]

Expressly telling or passively implying that something that is in the end your own decision to make for yourself is going to be the determining factor in your family's acceptance of you as a person? Guilt tripping? Playing the "We'll be so disappointed in you" card? Neither supportive nor good parenting.
Ya, unfortunately THIS seems like the most common MO.

[wordsmith]

I give thanks continually that my having to deal with this is at the barest minimum. My dad would, I think, sometimes LIKE to steer me a certain way, but because he didn't appreciate having that done to him, he recognizes that that would be the height of hypocrisy, and also that I'd call him on it in .03 seconds, if not sooner. Poor dad, one "downfall" of being a headstrong guy who raised a headstrong daughter.

[evergreatful]

I think parents believe they ARE being supportive by questioning such a decision. The problem, to me, is that they confuse your ability to know what is best for you with what THEY think is best for you. Honestly, evergreatful, if you ARE sure you want to leave, you're damn lucky to have figured it out NOW rather than have gone through and earned all the debt for a degree you dont plan to use. Its nice when your parents have your back but you dont NEED their support...especially if they're not financing your schooling anyway.

Thanks and1 as well as everybody else. It will be tough. I am trying to articulate the reasons for my decision to them in an adult-like and intellingent way. But, it is still early and they are not quite buying it. It is just frustrating because it is all on my dime!!! It is hard to hear your parents that they think you should continue shelling out money at over $17k a semester. Oh well. I just hope they calm down. I swear they way they are reacting you would think I just told them that I had a serious coke, prostitute, and gambling habit and I need to go into rehab.

[wordsmith]

Question...would your family say that you have a history or pattern of changing your mind on things, or giving up on goals?

[evergreatful]

Question...would your family say that you have a history or pattern of changing your mind on things, or giving up on goals?

YES, unfortunately. I started off in engineering school as a frosh undergrad but then transfered to a large university business school. That PISSED them off. I did well after that with 3 amazing internships at a global organization throughout college. But about a year and a half ago I got high and mighty and thought that I needed the prestige of being a lawyer (this is a whole other issue for me in itself). My family told me I was insane and that I am great at business and should stick with it, plus I would not make a great lawyer. Well that was enough to drive me to buck up and get accepted into law school to prove them wrong. So they are upset because now that they finally accept the fact that I will become an attoreny I am saying "whoa wait a second, I did this for poor reasons and I think I want to go back to business." For this they are upset. I can somewhat understand but their level of anger is depressing.

[wordsmith]

Okay. The reason I asked is becaue, on more reflection on your issue, it struck me that if there's a pattern of changing your game plan, that's probably the place your parents are coming from. I still don't think they're right to be all, "You're out of the family circle of trust" or whatever, but it's slightly more understandable that they're reacting strongly if they've seen you be what they might perceive as flighty about big decisions before. It's somewhat more understandable that they're maybe feeling a little "Here we go again with the switcharoo," and feeling like you might not be showing what they think is the most dedication to a decision. However, if they're concerned, their concern should be FOR you and what your indecision means for you, not just a matter of them being pissed at you for bucking them.

[yankeeyosh]

So you agree with me, then, that environmental factors, upbringing, and socioeconomics trump year of birth as influences?

No. Year of birth is still important. Keep in mind you're still Gen 'X'.

[yankeeyosh]

I think parents believe they ARE being supportive by questioning such a decision. The problem, to me, is that they confuse your ability to know what is best for you with what THEY think is best for you. Honestly, evergreatful, if you ARE sure you want to leave, you're damn lucky to have figured it out NOW rather than have gone through and earned all the debt for a degree you dont plan to use. Its nice when your parents have your back but you dont NEED their support...especially if they're not financing your schooling anyway.

I disagree 100%. The levels of parental pressure that are becoming more and more common in this generation is an embarrassment, a national disgrace, and forebodes a terrible future for this country. In the so-called "meritocracy"...the future leaders of this country, we have a great proportion of teens and 20-somethings who cannot make their own decisions, have no self-reliance skills, do not know failure, and will likely at some point lose self-esteem and self-respect because they are so attached at the hip to their parents and obey their every whim.

[yankeeyosh]

Thanks and1 as well as everybody else. It will be tough. I am trying to articulate the reasons for my decision to them in an adult-like and intellingent way. But, it is still early and they are not quite buying it. It is just frustrating because it is all on my dime!!! It is hard to hear your parents that they think you should continue shelling out money at over $17k a semester. Oh well. I just hope they calm down. I swear they way they are reacting you would think I just told them that I had a serious coke, prostitute, and gambling habit and I need to go into rehab.

The incredible tuition that is omnipresent is actually a major reason why the Boom is pressuring their children so much. They feel that this is an "investment", and they expect immediate dividends. And this is also a likely candidate as a reason why Gen 'Y' expects such high salaries right off the bat.

[wordsmith]

But they're not paying it, the OP is. They don't have a say based on investment.

[yankeeyosh]

But they're not paying it, the OP is. They don't have a say based on investment.

In this case, yes. But in other cases, no. And it doesn't matter who's paying for it. Maybe the OP's parents paid for UG and while they may not be paying for law school, they feel that this was the "investment" to propel their progeny to a "good" law school and a "solid" career. Even if they didn't pay, the narcissm of the Boom, combined with their false ideals that if their children don't "succeed" (note I used quotes), they don't "succeed" puts tremendous pressure on their children. It's like parents feeling that their children must attend an Ivy League college to be successful.

[cache]

Oh well. I just hope they calm down. I swear they way they are reacting you would think I just told them that I had a serious coke, prostitute, and gambling habit and I need to go into rehab.

Maybe you have have told them that first, then law school would have seemed small:D

[and1grad]

I disagree 100%. The levels of parental pressure that are becoming more and more common in this generation is an embarrassment, a national disgrace, and forebodes a terrible future for this country. In the so-called "meritocracy"...the future leaders of this country, we have a great proportion of teens and 20-somethings who cannot make their own decisions, have no self-reliance skills, do not know failure, and will likely at some point lose self-esteem and self-respect because they are so attached at the hip to their parents and obey their every whim.
Not only am I not sure how that disagrees with what I said but I'm not even sure why you quoted me there. Also, it sure as hell DOES matter who's paying for it.

[Winter Storm]

The levels of parental pressure that are becoming more and more common in this generation is an embarrassment, a national disgrace, and forebodes a terrible future for this country. In the so-called "meritocracy"...the future leaders of this country, we have a great proportion of teens and 20-somethings who cannot make their own decisions, have no self-reliance skills, do not know failure, and will likely at some point lose self-esteem and self-respect because they are so attached at the hip to their parents and obey their every whim.

I don't know ONE single person like this. Are you surrounded by people like this?

The majority of people I know did not get a handout, are NOT joined at the hip with their parents, have had to work their asses off to put THEMSELVES through college, had to fight to get their jobs and are totally grateful for the pay they get. They've bought houses and fancy cars, with their own money, they didn't go to Ivy League or private schools and most of their parents have no kind of money or investments. I don' tknow anyone who is spoiled or had an easy life. They learned early on to rely on themselves and that nothing was guaranteed or for free and they've also experienced failure, struggles and learned from them.

[weary]

Not only am I not sure how that disagrees with what I said but I'm not even sure why you quoted me there. Also, it sure as hell DOES matter who's paying for it.

hell doesn't even come close. i don't care if my kid doesn't get straight A's or changes his major a few times when/if he goes to college. i want him to have the experience and get an education. but if he f*cks off my $$$ on partying and flirting with more careers than i can count on my fingers and not being serious about it, i'm signing off. without a second thought. he knows this full well, already, and hasn't even taken his PSAT yet. i'm not going to disown him or lay a guilt trip for the rest of his life...but he's not getting any more of my damn $$$ to throw away if he's irresponsible with it.

now, if he's going on his own dime and not living @ home? he can do whatever the hell he wants. i don't care if he goes to clown college or weed-wacking school or devry or harvard.

[wordsmith]

I guess I have a different perspective, because I incurred the cost of my own schooling, but even if my parents had paid, they wouldn't have attempted to dictate what I studied. No point in that, nor is it how they operate, they raised each of their kids to make thier own choices and work hard for the choices they made. They would, however, have been fully justified in yanking any and all funding had I screwed off on their dime. I don't consider choosing one's field of study for one's self to be screwing off, though.

I firmly believe that parents who say, "I'll pay for your schooling if you take x career track, but if you're gonna do something else, you're on your own," are being not only incredibly manipulative, but intensely disrespectful of their children's abilities to choose the course of their lives for themselves. If you firmly believe your kid lacks the ability to choose what they want in life, why are you sending them to school, period? Why not keep them locked up in their childhood bedrooms, if they're so incapable of making good choices that you have to do it for them? And more importantly, if you don't trust that your kid will make good choices, it's your own damned fault as a parent, because you raised that.

[Winter Storm]

So you agree with me, then, that environmental factors, upbringing, and socioeconomics trump year of birth as influences?
No. Year of birth is still important. Keep in mind you're still Gen 'X'.

So Mark, do you think that if Words was in born in say, '81, that she'd be a much different person?

[weary]

I guess I have a different perspective, because I incurred the cost of my own schooling, but even if my parents had paid, they wouldn't have attempted to dictate what I studied. No point in that, nor is it how they operate, they raised each of their kids to make thier own choices and work hard for the choices they made. They would, however, have been fully justified in yanking any and all funding had I screwed off on their dime. I don't consider choosing one's field of study for one's self to be screwing off, though.

I firmly believe that parents who say, "I'll pay for your schooling if you take x career track, but if you're gonna do something else, you're on your own," are being not only incredibly manipulative, but intensely disrespectful of their children's abilities to choose the course of their lives for themselves. If you firmly believe your kid lacks the ability to choose what they want in life, why are you sending them to school, period? Why not keep them locked up in their childhood bedrooms, if they're so incapable of making good choices that you have to do it for them? And more importantly, if you don't trust that your kid will make good choices, it's your own damned fault as a parent, because you raised that.

agreed [almost] whole-heartedly.

although sometimes, [some] strong-willed (aka HARD-HEADED) kids are just determined to f*uck-up and "learn the hard way", no matter how much love, example, direction, etc. they receive. hard head makes for a soft ass...

[wordsmith]

Agree, as as strong-willed child myself (and the daughter of two former strong-willed children). My mom even had a parenting book when I was growing up called "The Strong-Willed Child," now that I think of it.

But if you know you've done your job as a parent, you have to trust your kid to make their choices on their own, make the inevitable screwups on their own, and know you've taught them how to deal.

[weary]

Agree, as as strong-willed child myself (and the daughter of two former strong-willed children). My mom even had a parenting book when I was growing up called "The Strong-Willed Child," now that I think of it.

But if you know you've done your job as a parent, you have to trust your kid to make their choices on their own, make the inevitable screwups on their own, and know you've taught them how to deal.

hee heh. i don't doubt it. but of course, i was not referring to you words or in any way trying to make you out as a hard-head. :) just speaking from my experience as a strong-willed child myself, and as the mother of a child who is not, but who i seriously wonder/worry about sometimes (okay, most of the time) when it comes to decisions and dealing. i know i'm doing my job as a parent, so i'm really, REALLY hoping it's just adolescence. :(

[Winter Storm]

Agree, as as strong-willed child myself (and the daughter of two former strong-willed children). My mom even had a parenting book when I was growing up called "The Strong-Willed Child," now that I think of it.

But if you know you've done your job as a parent, you have to trust your kid to make their choices on their own, make the inevitable screwups on their own, and know you've taught them how to deal.

Apparently that isn't it at all Words, your personality, lifestyle and mindset is mainly related to your being born in '77. Yes, being born in '77 and being apart of Gen X is what really made you the way you are. :rolleyes:

[weary]

Apparently that isn't it at all Words, your personality, lifestyle and mindset is mainly related to your being born in '77. Yes, being born in '77 and being apart of Gen X is what really made you the way you are. :rolleyes:

why must you egg him on??? :p

[and1grad]

I firmly believe that parents who say, "I'll pay for your schooling if you take x career track, but if you're gonna do something else, you're on your own," are being not only incredibly manipulative, but intensely disrespectful of their children's abilities to choose the course of their lives for themselves. If you firmly believe your kid lacks the ability to choose what they want in life, why are you sending them to school, period? Why not keep them locked up in their childhood bedrooms, if they're so incapable of making good choices that you have to do it for them? And more importantly, if you don't trust that your kid will make good choices, it's your own damned fault as a parent, because you raised that.
I think its rarely all that tho. I think a lot of kids go into school with really grandiose ideas of how/with what degree and when they're gonna graduate, then things happen that change that and parents are left wondering what happened. Again, I dont believe MOST parents intend to be harmful. Parents will ALWAYS question their kids' choices.

[shimma]

I disagree 100%. The levels of parental pressure that are becoming more and more common in this generation is an embarrassment, a national disgrace, and forebodes a terrible future for this country. In the so-called "meritocracy"...the future leaders of this country, we have a great proportion of teens and 20-somethings who cannot make their own decisions, have no self-reliance skills, do not know failure, and will likely at some point lose self-esteem and self-respect because they are so attached at the hip to their parents and obey their every whim.

Mark, do you think this could be more a function of immaturity/lack of life experience than a permanent condition? People have ways of "being great because they have greatness thrust upon them", and if you hang around this earth long enough, greatness gets thrust upon you eventually. Also, I don't know anybody who doesn't know failure.

Parents have always pressured their kids to do X.Y,Z. It's part of the parent-child dynamic, nothing new. My parents have stories of their parents pressuring them to do this or taht. My grandparents had stories of their parents pressuring her to do this or that.

[yankeeyosh]

Not only am I not sure how that disagrees with what I said but I'm not even sure why you quoted me there. Also, it sure as hell DOES matter who's paying for it.

Eeep...sorry...misread it. I was cleaning spreadsheets. Sorry. :(

[yankeeyosh]

I don't know ONE single person like this. Are you surrounded by people like this?

The majority of people I know did not get a handout, are NOT joined at the hip with their parents, have had to work their asses off to put THEMSELVES through college, had to fight to get their jobs and are totally grateful for the pay they get. They've bought houses and fancy cars, with their own money, they didn't go to Ivy League or private schools and most of their parents have no kind of money or investments. I don' tknow anyone who is spoiled or had an easy life. They learned early on to rely on themselves and that nothing was guaranteed or for free and they've also experienced failure, struggles and learned from them.

They're around. Trust me. Since you are at the very tip of the generation, it might not be as frequent. Also, I'm not sure of the demographics at your high school. But at upper middle class suburbian high schools today, this is incredibly common. Even at poorer schools, you see this. You don't believe me? Listen in to a teen or 20-something chatting...half the time, they're talking about something related to their parents. Parents are hovering over kids to such a degree that it is really embarrassing.

[wordsmith]

I think its rarely all that tho. I think a lot of kids go into school with really grandiose ideas of how/with what degree and when they're gonna graduate, then things happen that change that and parents are left wondering what happened. Again, I dont believe MOST parents intend to be harmful. Parents will ALWAYS question their kids' choices.

I do agree that parents don't intend to be harmful. But that doesn't make it any less harmful for the intent. There's also a big difference between questioning your kids' choices and attempting to enforce your will past the stage where it's appropriate for you to do so. And mature and intelligent kids who are raised responsibly and taught to think critically don't, as a rule, make really irresponsible choices. Exceptions to the rule, of course, but crappy choices, such as not dealing with reality when you make your choices/grandiose plans, speak a lot to the parenting.

You raise your kids to make good decisions. At what point to you let the little bird go and learn to fly?

[yankeeyosh]

So Mark, do you think that if Words was in born in say, '81, that she'd be a much different person?

All else equal? I would say that there is a greater likelihood, but I don't think it is definite. I do have a good friend from the class of 99 (born in 80) who is from a similar area of the country as words that didn't feel the pressure too greatly for the most part, but his parents told him he should get a Ph. D. I would say if she was born in 1983 or 84, she most certainly would be. I'm not saying year is the end-all-be-all, but it is important.

[Winter Storm]

They're around. Trust me. Since you are at the very tip of the generation, it might not be as frequent. Also, I'm not sure of the demographics at your high school. But at upper middle class suburbian high schools today, this is incredibly common. Even at poorer schools, you see this. You don't believe me? Listen in to a teen or 20-something chatting...half the time, they're talking about something related to their parents. Parents are hovering over kids to such a degree that it is really embarrassing.

Yeah, you don't know the demographics of my high school or my home community but I assure you when I was a teen and in my early 20's, neither I nor any of my friends were preoccupied with parents or what they were thinking. There were far too many other self-involved things to ponder constantly. There are many of us whose parents are not at all involved in our lives.

We are around too.

[and1grad]

At what point to you let the little bird go and learn to fly?
THATS the big question...and the answer differs for everybody. I agree about questioning vs badgering but the problem comes with where the line is drawn. I think at some point the child needs to address the parent when that happens. That shouldnt be a problem if there's conviction behind the decision.

[wordsmith]

My sister was born in 1983...we're practically interchangeable.

[shimma]

Listen in to a teen or 20-something chatting...half the time, they're talking about something related to their parents. Parents are hovering over kids to such a degree that it is really embarrassing.

When I was a teenager, the main topic of conversations were:

Your Parents Suck But Mine Suck More
My (Mom/Dad/Stepmom/Stepdad/Parents/Authority Figures) Are Ruining My Life
I Hate My Parents

It's part and parcel of being that age.

I think today, there are a lot more threats out there (or more awareness of threats) and that's what's making parents hover, not a desire to control their kids.

[wordsmith]

THATS the big question...and the answer differs for everybody. I agree about questioning vs badgering but the problem comes with where the line is drawn. I think at some point the child needs to address the parent when that happens. That shouldnt be a problem if there's conviction behind the decision.

I agree with you. Guidance is always appropriate. Dictator-like, "Do what I say or I'm withholding [fill in the blank...financial backing, love, my acceptance, etc.], which is exactly how a lot of control-freak parents rule, is never appropriate.

[and1grad]

I think today, there are a lot more threats out there (or more awareness of threats) and that's what's making parents hover, not a desire to control their kids.
Thats also a good point.

[Winter Storm]

My sister was born in 1983...we're practically interchangeable.
I'm sorry, Words, you must be mistaken. See according to Yankeeyosh, because your sister was born in '83, she most certainly would be very different from you. He's not saying year is the end-all-be-all, but it is important. You might wanna check your textbooks again.

[yankeeyosh]

I

Mark, do you think this could be more a function of immaturity/lack of life experience than a permanent condition? People have ways of "being great because they have greatness thrust upon them", and if you hang around this earth long enough, greatness gets thrust upon you eventually. Also, I don't know anybody who doesn't know failure.

Parents have always pressured their kids to do X.Y,Z. It's part of the parent-child dynamic, nothing new. My parents have stories of their parents pressuring them to do this or taht. My grandparents had stories of their parents pressuring her to do this or that.

I don't think the collective pressure is as great as it is today, esp. in the upper middle class. Yes, thirty years ago...even twenty...kids were pressured. However, they were generally isolated cases, and there were always people in their peer group that "calmed" the kid down if they seemed stressed. Nowadays, everyone's on the treadmill, so in many circles, all kids know is stress. They have this notion, mostly foisted upon them by the Boom, that says that if they don't have such and such a job, they are failures. Everyone's in the same boat, so if they even dare to go against this, they're deemed as slackers.

[wordsmith]

When I was a teenager, the main topic of conversations were:

Your Parents Suck But Mine Suck More
My (Mom/Dad/Stepmom/Stepdad/Parents/Authority Figures) Are Ruining My Life
I Hate My Parents

It's part and parcel of being that age.

This wasn't my experience. I, and most of the people I surrounded myself with as a kid, were from stable, close knit homes similar to mine. I had one friend in an abusive parent situation, which actually WARRANTED hating her parent, versus the faux-angsty cliche teen "I haaate my parents, they so, like, don't get me" crap. But most of my friends growing up had good family relationships and remain close to their families, same as me.

I'd like to take a minute and point out that being close to your parents is being cast in a pretty negative light in some recent posts, and it's implied if not outright stated that having a tight relationship with your parents, talking about them a lot, having them be a big part of your life, caring what they say, etc. is unhealthy or detrimental, and I don't agree that that's true at all. Having a lacking family bond is far more detrimental in the long run. Let's bear in mind that when we're talking about negative parental involvement, not all involved parents are hindering and crippling their children with thier involvement...not all parents who are involved in their childrens' lives are issuing ultimatums and wresting control inappropriately from their children, either. Parental support and hovering/dictating are not the same thing.

[wordsmith]

Well, I don't know. Every time I don't have my iPod on, in the train, I hear some 25 year old chat about something...obviously, it's none of my business, but the word "mom" or "dad" keeps popping up.

So what? I talk about my parents all the time. If you asked any of my coworkers what my most frequent topic of coversation is, it would doubtless be my family. There isn't anything wrong with that, nor does it imply that said family being talked about is meddlesome or overbearing.

[yankeeyosh]

When I was a teenager, the main topic of conversations were:

Your Parents Suck But Mine Suck More
My (Mom/Dad/Stepmom/Stepdad/Parents/Authority Figures) Are Ruining My Life
I Hate My Parents

It's part and parcel of being that age.

I think today, there are a lot more threats out there (or more awareness of threats) and that's what's making parents hover, not a desire to control their kids.

Well, it's awareness more than sheer number (the world was a lot more dangerous 20 years ago). But a lot of it is paranoia...and the "need" for a "trophy kid".

[yankeeyosh]

I'm not saying anymore. I have spreadsheets to clean.

[cache]

I don't think the collective pressure is as great as it is today, esp. in the upper middle class. Yes, thirty years ago...even twenty...kids were pressured. However, they were generally isolated cases, and there were always people in their peer group that "calmed" the kid down if they seemed stressed. Nowadays, everyone's on the treadmill, so in many circles, all kids know is stress. They have this notion, mostly foisted upon them by the Boom, that says that if they don't have such and such a job, they are failures. Everyone's in the same boat, so if they even dare to go against this, they're deemed as slackers.

Usually your generational stuff I am pretty receptive to. But this I completely disagree with. People today are not pressured any more than they were 20...100...200 years ago. Yes, I'm sure George Washington was pressured to study hard. And the average teenager was pressured to study hard, AND go work on the farm, or the store, or whereever.

The difference is our view of accomplishment. Sweeping the floor is no longer an achievement worthy of anything. Filling out an extra scholarship application is.

It's not more pressure..just a different kind

[shimma]

Thats also a good point.
Are we agreeing on something?!? :lol:

And I also think, it's a weird time in history because, unlike in the past, the parents didn't grow up knowing about these threats and are totally scared and overreact, but the kids are growing up aware and do know the proper degree of reaction.

Take internet perverts. Many of the people I know in our 30s and 40s have no flippin idea how to use the internet (seriously this brilliant 40-something guy I work with was just introduced to craigslist and google yesterday by yours truly) but 20somethings on down sure do. You fear what you don't know, so to a parent, if my kid goes near the computer he'll get on the internet, go to a chatroom, and be solicited by a pedophile with AIDS.

And speaking of AIDS... we know now it's a bloodborne or sexually transmitted virus. You can't get it from hugging the person with AIDS (like you can get the strep throat or chicken pox viruses by hugging an infected person). But before, remember all that controversy with Ryan White in the mid/late 80s about, "should we let a guy with HIV attend school where he could potentially infect people"? Better safe than sorry of course, but if the poor guy were still alive today the only thing he'd have problems getting are laid and the Red Cross to accept blood donations from him.

At this time in history, there's a lot of that stuff still being ironed out. IMO, that's why parents are so nuts. And they should be.

[AshleyJordan]

They're around. Trust me. Since you are at the very tip of the generation, it might not be as frequent. Also, I'm not sure of the demographics at your high school. But at upper middle class suburbian high schools today, this is incredibly common. Even at poorer schools, you see this. You don't believe me? Listen in to a teen or 20-something chatting...half the time, they're talking about something related to their parents. Parents are hovering over kids to such a degree that it is really embarrassing.


I (and my friends and many family members,) come from just this demographic. I honestly haven't seen this to be the case (excessive closeness) any more than any other age group-- across socioeconomic and ethnic lines.

[Winter Storm]

I'd like to take a minute and point out that being close to your parents is being cast in a pretty negative light in some recent posts, and it's implied if not outright stated that having a tight relationship with your parents, talking about them a lot, having them be a big part of your life, caring what they say, etc. is unhealthy or detrimental, and I don't agree that that's true at all. Having a lacking family bond is far more detrimental in the long run. Let's bear in mind that when we're talking about negative parental involvement, not all involved parents are hindering and crippling their children with thier involvement...not all parents who are involved in their childrens' lives are issuing ultimatums and wresting control inappropriately from their children, either. Parental support and hovering/dictating are not the same thing.

Totally agree with all of this. And I contend, as a person who had little parental involvement growing up and through college, that it would have done me some good to have gotten some pressure, some hindering and some hovering. Because it seems to me that the ones who got this, have gone on a little bit further in life and have healthier outlooks and a better overall well being. Not to mention a stronger family bond and support. Not what is so damn horrible about that!?

[shimma]

the faux-angsty cliche teen "I haaate my parents, they so, like, don't get me" crap.

Again, you said it more succintly than I, but that's what I meant. We didn't actually "hate" our parents except for one person, who again, abusive situation and it was warranted.

I'd like to take a minute and point out that being close to your parents is being cast in a pretty negative light in some recent posts, and it's implied if not outright stated that having a tight relationship with your parents, talking about them a lot, having them be a big part of your life, caring what they say, etc. is unhealthy or detrimental, and I don't agree that that's true at all.
I'm sorry if you got that impression from anything I said, as I do not feel taht way. I am actually quite jealous of the relationship you seem to have with your family.

[wordsmith]

Usually your generational stuff I am pretty receptive to. But this I completely disagree with. People today are not pressured any more than they were 20...100...200 years ago. Yes, I'm sure George Washington was pressured to study hard. And the average teenager was pressured to study hard, AND go work on the farm, or the store, or whereever.

The difference is our view of accomplishment. Sweeping the floor is no longer an achievement worthy of anything. Filling out an extra scholarship application is.

It's not more pressure..just a different kind

I completely agree with this.

Dealing with parental pressure and expectations is a timeless, rite-of-passage thing that is not confined to any one generation of people. Sheesh, parental dynamics and children expected to live up to a certain standard has been a common theme in literature, one of our mesures of cultural norms and trends, from time immemorial...Greek tragedies...folk tales...Shakespearean dramas...epic poetry...The Wonder Years...The Lion King... No way is this a theme that just suddenly cropped up with iPod-wearing twentysomethings and their nefarious rich boomer parents.

[weary]

Parental pressure and expectations is a timeless, rite-of-passage thing that is not confined to any one generation of people. Sheesh, parental dynamics and children expected to live up to a certain standard has been a common theme in literature, one of our mesures of cultural norms and trends, from time immemorial...Greek tragedies...folk tales...Shakesperean dramas...epic poetry...The Wonder Years...The Lion King... No way is this a theme that just suddenly cropped up with iPod-wearing twentysomethings and their nefarious rich boomer parents.

lllloooooooooooooooove it! :D

[yankeeyosh]

Usually your generational stuff I am pretty receptive to. But this I completely disagree with. People today are not pressured any more than they were 20...100...200 years ago. Yes, I'm sure George Washington was pressured to study hard. And the average teenager was pressured to study hard, AND go work on the farm, or the store, or whereever.

The difference is our view of accomplishment. Sweeping the floor is no longer an achievement worthy of anything. Filling out an extra scholarship application is.

It's not more pressure..just a different kind

Explain to me, then, why in barely over a decade...from the entering college classes of 1985 to 1996, that the number of college freshmen who felt "frequently overwhelmed with all they have to do" nearly doubled? Kids today are working till 3 AM on AP homework, projects, extracurriculars, etc. There are kids (and esp. parents) who are devastating...like it's the end of the world...when they get rejected from the Ivies. And it gets worse every year.

[weary]

Explain to me, then, why in barely over a decade...from the entering college classes of 1985 to 1996, that the number of college freshmen who felt "frequently overwhelmed with all they have to do" nearly doubled? Kids today are working till 3 AM on AP homework, projects, extracurriculars, etc. There are kids (and esp. parents) who are devastating...like it's the end of the world...when they get rejected from the Ivies. And it gets worse every year.

b/c now the DIFFERENT KIND OF PRESSURE is school/college for these kids. what part of what cache said was unclear???

[shimma]

Explain to me, then, why in barely over a decade...from the entering college classes of 1985 to 1996, that the number of college freshmen who felt "frequently overwhelmed with all they have to do" nearly doubled? Kids today are working till 3 AM on AP homework, projects, extracurriculars, etc. There are kids (and esp. parents) who are devastating...like it's the end of the world...when they get rejected from the Ivies. And it gets worse every year.

What I have noticed, kind of growing up alongside the computer technology... is having your own PC allows you to be much stupider even though you're doing more. That includes making you worse at time management b/c with the internet and all the shit you can find and download instantaneously, it's easier to procrastinate.

I think the college pressure thing stems from you HAVE to have at least a Bachelors to not live in poverty (for the most part) but even that doesn't gurantee success.

I think it's a reflection of macroeconomic issues not widespread mental ones.

[WorkInProgress]

Explain to me, then, why in barely over a decade...from the entering college classes of 1985 to 1996, that the number of college freshmen who felt "frequently overwhelmed with all they have to do" nearly doubled? Kids today are working till 3 AM on AP homework, projects, extracurriculars, etc.

I feel like I keep saying this...

If kids have to stay up that late routinely, they need to be out of AP classes, or out of extracurriculars, or something, because CLEARLY the workload is too much for them to handle. And, at my HS at least (granted it's been a few years since I was there), it was the kid that signed up for classes. And, I might add, my parents probably had more input (notice I didn't say they had the final, or even the most "say") into my schedule (and went to bat for me when my school was being retarded about classes/scheduling) than most other students in my school, and perhaps more than a lot of other parents of "comparable" students (not sure what else to call them), but I damn sure wasn't overcommitted that way. In my high school there was some of what you're talking about, but AT MOST it applied to the top 10% of my class (and I'm REALLY not convinced that it even applied to all of them/us, because, as I say, my parents were invovled but not the overinvolved you describe, and I'm certain mine weren't the only ones). I think the vast majority of kids in my HS had little or absolutely no input from their parents about classes, schedules, extracurriculars, homework, projects, etc.

[cache]

Explain to me, then, why in barely over a decade...from the entering college classes of 1985 to 1996, that the number of college freshmen who felt "frequently overwhelmed with all they have to do" nearly doubled? Kids today are working till 3 AM on AP homework, projects, extracurriculars, etc. There are kids (and esp. parents) who are devastating...like it's the end of the world...when they get rejected from the Ivies. And it gets worse every year.

The same reason why the amount of medication in children has exploded over that same time period. In an effort to address some problems that affect a limited number of people, medication got marketed too well and too mainstream, and pretty soon, everyone has something that they needed a medication for.

Pressure is the same thing. Years ago, people didn't say "my child is overwhelmed by pressure" because it was just part of life. Now it is looked at as something bad, something worth making up a statistic about. There was not an actual change in the amount of pressure faced, but in the amount of realization by teenagers that if they tell people they are pressured, their parents and teachers become more sympathetic and lighten the load.

[Winter Storm]

The same reason why the amount of medication in children has exploded over that same time period. In an effort to address some problems that affect a limited number of people, medication got marketed too well and too mainstream, and pretty soon, everyone has something that they needed a medication for.


I think that is an excellent point.

[yankeeyosh]

Well...I may be right, but there's also a chance I could be wrong. I'm not saying anything else. I am sorry if I offended anyone (and I know I did...someone who definitely does not deserve it), and I also apologize for my hubris on this issue. I feel like I am alienating myself, and I don't give anyone's point of view a fair shake.

[red]

What I have noticed, kind of growing up alongside the computer technology... is having your own PC allows you to be much stupider even though you're doing more. That includes making you worse at time management b/c with the internet and all the shit you can find and download instantaneously, it's easier to procrastinate.


awesome. i love it. totally true. i remember having a job before the internet. it was a MUCH different thing. if we were bored, we had to talk to each other! or sometimes we would listen to the radio!

[wordsmith]

What I have noticed, kind of growing up alongside the computer technology... is having your own PC allows you to be much stupider even though you're doing more.

I'll definitely go with lazier.

[weary]

awesome. i love it. totally true. i remember having a job before the internet. it was a MUCH different thing. if we were bored, we had to talk to each other! or sometimes we would listen to the radio!

i remember taking an INTERNET CLASS at one of my first office jobs. :eek: :0

[yankeeyosh]

And cache's point is correct. I keep harping on miners and sharecroppers in other threads, but I have not brought up the pressure THEY had...frankly, the most overachieving 'Yer' doesn't have it nearly as bad as someone working the cotton fields in Mississippi circa 1950 or in the Kentucky coal mines of 1925. I think the point is that history keeps repeating itself, and the more things change, the more they remain the same.

[yankeeyosh]

i remember taking an INTERNET CLASS at one of my first office jobs. :eek: :0

Now you DO have to admit...this is a generational marker, since 'Yers' would most likely have learned the Internet before becoming adults.

[Winter Storm]

Now you DO have to admit...this is a generational marker, since 'Yers' would most likely have learned the Internet before becoming adults.

Gotta disagree there again. I think this may also be more socioeconomic and in who could afford and had access to computers and internet access. I grew up without a computer so I didn't learn or get on the internet until college, but I know of others who had it much younger, simply because their parents had it in the home sooner.

My neice, a "Yer" has lived in a home mostly without a computer and though they have classes at her school, she didn't get on the internet until high school and still isn't very computer savvy at all. She also does not own an Ipod, nor does she have a college fund but does work a part-time job, full-time between school semesters. She's 17.

[wordsmith]

i remember taking an INTERNET CLASS at one of my first office jobs. :eek: :0

You and I are of a similar age. Part of my college freshman orientation was a mandatory session where they taught us to use the campus' telnet/e-mail system.

[yankeeyosh]

Gotta disagree there again. I think this may also be more socioeconomic and in who could afford and had access to computers and internet access. I grew up without a computer so I didn't learn or get on the internet until college, but I know of others who had it much younger, simply because their parents had it in the home sooner.

My neice, a "Yer" has lived in a home mostly without a computer and though they have classes at her school, she didn't get on the internet until high school and still isn't very computer savvy at all. She also does not own an Ipod, nor does she have a college fund but does work a part-time job, full-time between school semesters. She's 17.

Yes, but 1996 was the first entering class where the majority of HS students had internet access before entering college. A computer advisor from the college class of 1997 at one school was amazed at how much this class knew about computers that it was "almost scary". Granted, it was Ivy League, but other schools had similar reactions at the same time.

[weary]

Now you DO have to admit...this is a generational marker, since 'Yers' would most likely have learned the Internet before becoming adults.

i never said i was an adult at the time. my first office job was at the age of 14.

[weary]

You and I are of a similar age. Part of my college freshman orientation was a mandatory session where they taught us to use the campus' telnet/e-mail system.
yup....i'm guessing your frosh orientation was in '96 and the time i was referring to was the same.

[yankeeyosh]

i never said i was an adult at the time. my first office job was at the age of 14.

whoops :redface:

[wordsmith]

Well...I may be right, but there's also a chance I could be wrong. I'm not saying anything else. I am sorry if I offended anyone (and I know I did...someone who definitely does not deserve it), and I also apologize for my hubris on this issue. I feel like I am alienating myself, and I don't give anyone's point of view a fair shake.

I'm not offended (don't think you were talking about me, but even so). I'm just compelled to point out alternate viewpoints.

[Winter Storm]

Yes, but 1996 was the first entering class where the majority of HS students had internet access before entering college. A computer advisor from the college class of 1997 at one school was amazed at how much this class knew about computers that it was "almost scary". Granted, it was Ivy League, but other schools had similar reactions at the same time.

I still think it may have more to do with socioeconomics. Kids who had computers in the home for most of their lives were still more computer savvy than kids without.

[yankeeyosh]

I still think it may have more to do with socioeconomics. Kids who had computers in the home for most of their lives were still more computer savvy than kids without.

It is. Definitely not denying that. Heck, there are 'Yers' who still don't know how to use the Internet, and there were 'Xers' who used the Internet when they were kids (mostly BBS's, but still the Internet). But it's a trend more than anything else...

[wordsmith]

Gotta disagree there again. I think this may also be more socioeconomic and in who could afford and had access to computers and internet access. I grew up without a computer so I didn't learn or get on the internet until college, but I know of others who had it much younger, simply because their parents had it in the home sooner.

My neice, a "Yer" has lived in a home mostly without a computer and though they have classes at her school, she didn't get on the internet until high school and still isn't very computer savvy at all. She also does not own an Ipod, nor does she have a college fund but does work a part-time job, full-time between school semesters. She's 17.

Very definitely another thing symptomatic of the politics of the socioeconomic class structure. We didn't have home computers well after others did (and internet? My family didn't get that till 1999, when dialup was provided due my dad's position with the school board, he needed to receive e-mails). My high school papers were written out longhand, and, when typing was required, typed on an IBM Selectric typewriter. I didn't know how to use a computer until I was in college, late 90s. Didn't have anything to learn on. I'm still learning a lot.

[yankeeyosh]

Very definitely another thing symptomatic of the politics of the socioeconomic class structure. We didn't have home computers well after others did (and internet? My family didn't get that till 1999, when dialup was provided due my dad's position with the school board, he needed to receive e-mails). My high school papers were written out longhand, and, when typing was required, typed on an IBM Selectric typewriter. I didn't know how to use a computer until I was in college, late 90s. Didn't have anything to learn on. I'm still learning a lot.

Admittedly, I did use a typewriter (actually my mom typed up the reports) until senior year of HS, when we got a computer.

[red]

i still use a typewriter at work all of the time.

i bet i just blew all of your generation Y minds!

we always had a computer at home. i think it's a SES thing for sure. we only had one bcs my parents were teachers. like when everyone else had NES we didn't have that. money was only spent on educational stuff.

[yankeeyosh]

i still use a typewriter at work all of the time.

i bet i just blew all of your generation Y minds!

:eek:

I assume you have to fill out order forms that for some reason, are in paper form.

At a summer job, I had to do that one day...I had trouble spooling the paper into the typewriter.

[wordsmith]

My receptionist uses a typewriter frequently. I don't know for what, though. She also uses her computer, but there's evidently something she uses her typewriter for. Possibly envelopes...there's some reason, can't remember what it is, that we can't run address labels in our printers.

[weary]

i use a typewriter occasionally at work. it's to fill out report forms that have to be turned in to the FEDERAL government. go figure....

[WorkInProgress]

Possibly envelopes...there's some reason, can't remember what it is, that we can't run address labels in our printers.

Maybe because they gum up the works in some printers. It's why I don't often print labels on my home printer.

[cache]

Growing up, we had a computer from the time I was ~8, but never had a printer, so all of my papers were done on the word processor.

[wordsmith]

Maybe because they gum up the works in some printers. It's why I don't often print labels on my home printer.

It could be...I'm not sure, since I never have cause to print labels.

[yankeeyosh]

I honestly would love to see the expression of a typical 'Yer' on the job who has to fill out something on a typewriter or use a rotary phone or some other antiquated equipment. More likely than not, they'd have a weird look on their face.

[WorkInProgress]

Growing up, we had a computer from the time I was ~8, but never had a printer, so all of my papers were done on the word processor.

We had one that was more or less just a word processor with a printer (the slow dot kind with the ribbon and the screech sound) from about the time I was in 4th grade, maybe. It also had a very limited assortment of games (mah-johgg, carmen sandiego and tetris). However, we didn't get another one OR get internet until the fall of 1998. So while I typed a lot assignments on a computer and printed them, it's not like we were way technologically advanced. We never owned a type writer, so when I needed to use one I had to go to the library, or (the last time I had to type something) ask really nicely to the head of the guidance department in high school.

[Winter Storm]

I honestly would love to see the expression of a 'Yer' on the job who has to fill out something on a typewriter or use a rotary phone or some other antiquated equipment. More likely than not, they'd have a weird look on their face.
I think most people would have a weird look on their face if asked to use any of those, including my 60 year old mother who hasn't used either since the 80's.

[WorkInProgress]

I honestly would love to see the expression of a 'Yer' on the job who has to fill out something on a typewriter or use a rotary phone or some other antiquated equipment. More likely than not, they'd have a weird look on their face.

I LOVE rotary phones...we had one or two when I was little. The first push button phone I remember us having was from when I was in 4th grade, maybe?

[weary]

I LOVE rotary phones...we had one or two when I was little. The first push button phone I remember us having was from when I was in 4th grade, maybe?
my ex's mom and grandmother STILL have rotary phones! one old ugly orange one and one fancy french antique one. love 'em both! :D

[wordsmith]

I went to college with a Smith Corona Daisy Print Wheel word processor. It did have a separate monitor (with lovely amber glowing letters), but basically, it was a typewriter, and sounded like one when it printed.

One bonus was that my professors all thought I typed my papers, and were impresseed.

[weary]

when i was in the 7th grade i took typing as an elective in school. it was typing, on a TYPEWRITER...not "keyboarding" on a computer like kids learn now. i don't think my son's ever even seen a typewriter IRL. we were watching "that 70's show" one day and they got an 8-track for a gift or something on the show. my kid says to me, "is that what you had before CD's?" :rolleyes:

[Winter Storm]

I got a Brother word processor from Staples while in college. My professors thought I had a computer. Its still in my storage closet. Actually, so is my electronic typewriter from high school.

[WorkInProgress]

when i was in the 7th grade i took typing as an elective in school. it was typing, on a TYPEWRITER...not "keyboarding" on a computer like kids learn now. i don't think my son's ever even seen a typewriter IRL. we were watching "that 70's show" one day and they got an 8-track for a gift or something on the show. my kid says to me, "is that what you had before CD's?" :rolleyes:

I'd never seen or heard of an 8-track until I was in middle school. Records I knew, since we had a record player, and cassettes, of course, but not 8-tracks.

[Winter Storm]

I'd never seen or heard of an 8-track until I was in middle school. Records I knew, since we had a record player, and cassettes, of course, but not 8-tracks.
Yeah 8-tracks were before my time. I've never really seen one in real life.

[cache]

I had typing class in school, but it was on an Apple II. They used to take shoe boxes with holes cut in them for your hands and put them over the keyboard so you had to learn to type without looking. :D

[WorkInProgress]

Yeah 8-tracks were before my time. I've never really seen one in real life.

I only saw one because some grandparent found it somewhere and sent it to one of my parents. When my parent (don't recall which) was explaining is I remember saying something about how lame it was that they didn't rewind. I still think it's lame.

[wordsmith]

I knew 8-tracks, because I had two aunts who were high school seniors in the late 70s, and had all the faddy stuff.

[yankeeyosh]

my ex's mom and grandmother STILL have rotary phones! one old ugly orange one and one fancy french antique one. love 'em both! :D

Actually, my grandmother had one till she passed away last year. From 1990 to 1996, my family had one (we lived in my other grandparents' house for six years).

[WorkInProgress]

I had typing class in school, but it was on an Apple II. They used to take shoe boxes with holes cut in them for your hands and put them over the keyboard so you had to learn to type without looking. :D

I never had to take typing/keyboarding...but I took it as an elective as a freshman in HS. I should have taken it in middle school, but at my first middle school, it was a 7th grade thing, and in my second middle school it was a 6th grade thing, so I missed it entirely.

Really, I learned to type quickly and without looking because of IM as a junior in HS. ;):

[yankeeyosh]

I remember someone mentioned somewhere that they had to tell this 20-something that a record was like an oversized CD

[yankeeyosh]

I went to college with a Smith Corona Daisy Print Wheel word processor. It did have a separate monitor (with lovely amber glowing letters), but basically, it was a typewriter, and sounded like one when it printed.

One bonus was that my professors all thought I typed my papers, and were impresseed.

Do you mean that professors actually were OK if you didn't type your papers? That's defintiely before my time...except for math, every professor expected typed term papers, double spaced, 12 point font. I could get away with it in HS...but not college.

[and1grad]

yank,
I kinda wish I agreed with you so this thread wouldnt just be "Lets all dogpile on yank." :)

[wordsmith]

Do you mean that professors actually were OK if you didn't type your papers? That's defintiely before my time...

No, I mean they thought I TYPED them on a typewriter (because that's what a print wheel word processor ends up lookinglike, typewritten pages), versus did them on a computer.

[Winter Storm]

yank,
I kinda wish I agreed with you so this thread wouldnt just be "Lets all dogpile on yank." :)

Now why you bringing up old stuff? :p :)

[weary]

Yeah 8-tracks were before my time. I've never really seen one in real life.
me neither. but i've heard enough of my mom, aunts & uncles talk about 'em. i just thought it was funnny that to my kid, 8-track, cassette, whatever -- if it wasn't a CD it sounded old and mysterious. :p

[weary]

yank,
I kinda wish I agreed with you so this thread wouldnt just be "Lets all dogpile on yank." :)

i don't think we were dogpiling. just trying to get him to see that not everything is black & white gen X,Y, etc....which he did. he even acknowledged that he wasn't giving other POV's a fair shake and took more time to do so.

now, if you want us to dogpile YOU, just say so! :p

[red]

i always have a weird look when i use that typewriter. it is a look of pure hatred. but not as much as i hate using microfiche! which i also use regularly.

so my job sucks the most and i win.

[playingbyheart]

Ok I just need to vent. So I am a 1L fully financing my legal education by myself. I graduated from college this year with three great internships in Human Resources at an international organization. I worked for that company over the summer with but left to go to law school. I am realizing that being a lawyer is not for me and want to leave after this semester to get back into business. For one I feel like an idiot for giving up what was a great job that I should have been damn grateful for.

Seconly (and the major point) I have made the error of telling my parents and older sister that I am planning on leaving. Wow. Big mistake. Emails and phone calls gallore have basically made me feel like I will be banished from the family if I leave law school. Let's see "I am not giving it enough time", "quitting is terrible", "they will be very dissapointed in me if I leave", etc.

So anyone leave graduate school or have an analogous situation where your family was not behind you? I unfortunately am a baby in some respects and have always needed the emotional support of my family in what I do. Oh well, guess you have to grow up sometime.

Any input would help. Thanks everyone.

-Evergreatful


I am sorry that your parents are putting such pressure on you to do something you don't want to do. But as everyone else here has said, at this point you really have to do what's right for you. After all, YOU'RE the one paying for your law degree, not them. So they really have absolutely no say in the matter (if they had paid for a year of law school and then you decided to quit, I could see them justifying being angry.)

To avoid your parents disowning you, first of all you might just need to give them some time to calm down. But another thing you can do is create a chart or document that displays the potential lifetime earning of an HR executive (if this is what you want to do) and put that on a chart with an average laywer salary and then another respected job that happens to be low paying (I suggest "teacher" or "journalist.") Show your parents that you've thought out your future financially and that the path you're taking will provide you with plenty of income.

I also advise nicely confronting them on why they want you to go to Law school. Why is it best for you? Is it the extremely high salary? The esteem of being an attorney? Most likely when they have to explain why they're upset with you, they'll just have to face the fact that all of the expectations are for their own benefit. If they're fine with that, you don't need to be designing your life based on bad parents.