Related to my earlier thread on leaving law school...

[evergreatful]

Wow my previous thread started quite the discussion on parenting, generation differences, etc...

So anyway here is the latest dilema. I've basically made up my mind to leave law school after finals this semester. But, I can't sleep because I am so nervous about finding a job. Yes, I have 3 internships and a BS which I hope can qualify me for an entry level job but who the hell wants to hire a law school drop out??? I had lunch with a former employer who advised I stay the year before throwing in the towel. It was great advice and I appreciated it but I don't want to spend another semester of tuition if I am sure this is not what I want to do. I am wondering if this is going to slam a lot of doors shut for me (quitting that is). Anyone been in a similar situation? Any comments are appreciated. Thanks.

[CityGal]

How far into law school were you? Sorry didn't read the other thread. If you barely got started than I would go ahead and quit instead of wasting more money. If you didn't, I would go through with it. Don't really know your situation but weigh out your investment. Is it worth already lose the money you spent for a few semesters? I know losing more money is bad as well but at least you'll have something to show for it.

[arrow]

I just read an article in the Onion this morning (a serious interview, actually) with this comedian who dropped out of law school in his 2nd year (of a 3-yr program) and everyone was mad at him. I know you aren't going to be a comedian, but you may like what he had to say:

"Nobody liked my decision to leave law school, except for me. I had a full scholarship, good grades, and only one year left -- the easiest year. The only problem was that I had no passion for it. When I dropped out, everybody was disappointed. People said I should get that degree to have something to fall back on. That didn't make sense to me. Couches are good for falling back on, not degrees in things you don't like. But I found that disappointing people is a good thing, because disapproval is freedom."

So anyway, congratulations on making the right decision for you. Only you can know what that is, anyway.

[evergreatful]

Thanks for the responses.

CityGal....I am in my first semester. I haven't felt right since I started in late August. I've come to the harsh realization that I made a mistake and rushed into this for the wrong reasons.

Arrow...that makes me feel a lot better!!! Good advice on the comedians part.

[evergreatful]

I will say this though...I am still HELLA nervous about finding a job. Oh well, looks like I can use my marketing bs to go "pound the pavment" and market myself.

[winneythepooh7]

Do you have to even put the one semester of law school on your resume? And even if you do, I receive a ton of resumes where people haven't completed a professional degree, but will put what they have completed on there. No biggy. Play up your working/professional experience, because honestly, that holds more weight IMO. And you still have a Bachelor's on there which is good for something.

[cache]

Do you have to even put the one semester of law school on your resume? And even if you do, I receive a ton of resumes where people haven't completed a professional degree, but will put what they have completed on there. No biggy. Play up your working/professional experience, because honestly, that holds more weight IMO. And you still have a Bachelor's on there which is good for something.

Agreed...I wouldn't even put it on your resume. It will be irrelevant to any position you might be applying for, and therefore unnecessary to bring up.

[weary]

while i am with the previous employer (stay 'til the end of the year), if you are sure you want to leave, DO NOT put the 1 semester on your resume, period. it may come up when interviewing as to why you are just now looking for a job/haven't worked since graduation (if that is your case) since you'll only be listing your B.S. degree...but you can deal with that then.

oh, and don't say HELLA in any interviews please. it's hard enough to read here. :p

[Skyblade]

Do you even have to mention law school in your job interviews? There are ways to reason a gap in employment. I was taking time off... I went to Europe... I was taking care of my sick grandparent...

[wordsmith]

As noted earlier, my dad quit law school after a semester... he was a newlywed being supported by his 21-year old wife in an expensive city, it wasn't his thing, he had a teaching degree anyway. He almost immediately got a job teaching English and history.

What are you looking to do?

[evergreatful]

Sorry Weary. I couldn't think of a good enough term to stress my anxiety towards finding a job after finals this month. My speech does not normally include such rudimentary slang terms such as "hella."

I finished in December of 2005, a semester early and spent a few months helping my grandparents with moving to a retirement community, helping my father with his businesses, etc. Then after official graduation in early May I immediately served a 4 month internship with the same company I had served 2 internships with in college. It was in Human Resources. I do not think they are going to hiring for a permanent position now though and I think I might have used up all my favors from the company. My old boss took me out to lunch over Thanksgiving break and told me to tough out the year and gave me the number of their counsel to see if he could talk me out of leaving.

So that is the situation. I would like to get back into human resources or marketing at the entry level (obviously), or any entry level business position.

I am sure the gap from September to whenever I land an interview will come up during that interview. I would hate to lie so of course I will say "I spent a semester in law school and realized it was not for me."

So that is my story. Thanks a lot for the responses. Good group on this site.

[weary]

awww ever, don't apologize...i was just poking fun!

i'm sorry you are going through this but it sounds like you at least know what you want to do and have a good head on your shoulders. i say go for HR, but that's just my very biased opinion b/c that is/was my field for so long. do you have any experience in mktg or is that what your degree's in?

[evergreatful]

awww ever, don't apologize...i was just poking fun!

i'm sorry you are going through this but it sounds like you at least know what you want to do and have a good head on your shoulders. i say go for HR, but that's just my very biased opinion b/c that is/was my field for so long. do you have any experience in mktg or is that what your degree's in?

LOL. Thanks. :)

My concentrations within the business admin degree are marketing and entrepreneurship. I just happened to end up with some HR work during college and really enjoyed it. I like the idea of hiring and retaining quality people and providing a pleasant work experience for them. So there is the motivation to get back into HR.

[weary]

LOL. Thanks. :)

My concentrations within the business admin degree are marketing and entrepreneurship. I just happened to end up with some HR work during college and really enjoyed it. I like the idea of hiring and retaining quality people and providing a pleasant work experience for them. So there is the motivation to get back into HR.

well, if you ever want to talk about it feel free to PM me. i'd think there'd be lots of opportunity to use your entrepreneurship stuff too if you worked in HR for a newer company. i once did all of HR for a start-up and it was crazy hectic, but i learned a ton and definitely valued the experience.

[Skyblade]

Too bad you don't live near here. We've had an open position for an entry-level person in HR for months!

[wordsmith]

What background is required for entry level HR, out of curiosity?

[Skyblade]

Hm..actually the job description does say minimum of 2 years experience. But my job ad said min of 4 years experience and I still got the job.

Here's the job ad:

Position Description


Summary

Under general direction of the Director, Human Resources, responsible for administering employee benefits programs and services, maintaining HR records and documentation, and providing administrative support to the HR Department, while maintaining a high level of confidentiality at all times.

Duties and Responsibilities

Process Medical, Dental and 401(k) enrollments and updates, ensuring all paperwork is complete, accurate, and submitted on-time to insurance broker or corporate benefits representative via a secure/controlled method.
Process/Maintain all workers compensation claims
Serve as a designated back-up for Receptionist, answering a multi-line telephone switchboard, screening and directing incoming calls, using an intercom paging system, sorting and distributing mail, greeting and issuing credentials to visitors, maintaining the visitor log book, and logging receipt of physical payment instruments
Maintain available stock of all benefits- and HR-related forms, paperwork, brochures, packets and other documentation needed by employees, managers and HR staff
Assist with entering applicant and employee information accurately into HRIS system
Responsible for weekly physical inventory, electronic ordering, and distribution of office supplies for all FLIR-Santa Barbara buildings, and management of related records
Assemble New Hire QUEST binders and developing a system that will track – and ensure completion of – New Hire QUEST trainings
Assist with reference checks, as needed
Use the Internet to download Radford benchmark data and distribute to managers as needed
Establish Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) for all assigned duties
Records Management: organize and maintain the Records Room, including filing invoices for temps and creating folders as necessary. Keep filing current within same week as received.
Provide general administrative support to all departments including, but not limited to: copying, filing, data entry, mass mailing, media processing
Run errands between two (2) FLIR-Santa Barbara buildings as needed
Keep employee information current on bulletin boards and in Break Rooms
Assist with new job postings on all bulletin boards
Assist with all Employee Activities including company picnics and holiday parties
Coordinate Company business lunches – including arrangements for food and beverages, and light housekeeping – and maintain a tracking system
Assist in acknowledging employee birthdays, anniversaries, and special occasions
Assist with special projects, as assigned

Qualifications


Required Knowledge and Experience

Prior Reception/Front Desk experience
Minimum of 2 years’ directly- related experience in Human Resources required; direct experience in with benefits administration, and employee-liaison duties preferred
Must be able to demonstrate proficiency in Microsoft Office applications (Word, Excel, Outlook, Powerpoint, and Access); Must be able to manipulate data using an Excel spreadsheet
Must have reliable transportation to run errands and travel between FLIR – Indigo facilities
Familiarity with online ordering of office supplies; Corporate Express eWay software experience desirable
Experience with FileMaker Pro, ABRA (HRIS), and Crystal Reports software desirable
Core Performance Skills

Must be able to maintain a high level of confidentiality and professionalism
Communication skills – oral, listening and written
Ability to foster relationships
Attention to detail is a must
Organization, planning and execution skills
Flexibility
Must be able to multi-task and have several projects going on at the same time
Coping skills
Continuous learning
Must be able to lift 25 lbs unassisted

[weary]

words - it really depends on the company and what part of HR. there are a ton of sub-HR fields, especially for entry level jobs. could be in employment/recruiting, compensation & benefits, employee relations, payroll (which is sometimes finance, sometimes HR, but usually a combo of both), training & development, etc.


sky - DAMN. that is a lot to be 'entry level. :eek:

ETA: sky -- oops, didn't see the 2 years exper notation at first. yeah, that seems better. no way a newbie could do all that.

[and1grad]

I would hate to lie so of course I will say "I spent a semester in law school and realized it was not for me."
You would be WAY better off coming up with a plausible lie. Even if its as simple as you've been seeking employment all that time.

[yankeeyosh]

Hm..actually the job description does say minimum of 2 years experience. But my job ad said min of 4 years experience and I still got the job.

How many years did you have?

I have trouble finding things that require one year experience...even though I really have seven. Why can't I ever have this luck?

[wordsmith]

You seriously don't have to mention that you went to law school at all. How is it pertinent?

[Skyblade]

How many years did you have?

I have trouble finding things that require one year experience...even though I really have seven.

1 year of part-time related work
1.5 years of full-time related work

[Skyblade]

words - it really depends on the company and what part of HR. there are a ton of sub-HR fields, especially for entry level jobs. could be in employment/recruiting, compensation & benefits, employee relations, payroll (which is sometimes finance, sometimes HR, but usually a combo of both), training & development, etc.


sky - DAMN. that is a lot to be 'entry level. :eek:

ETA: sky -- oops, didn't see the 2 years exper notation at first. yeah, that seems better. no way a newbie could do all that.

Our job ads are always really long and go into extreme detail. Most of the stuff on there other people do as well, so its not like the person hired would be doing it all themselves.

[WorkInProgress]

You seriously don't have to mention that you went to law school at all. How is it pertinent?

This is what I was thinking. I can see how an employer would not be impressed with a "it was just not for me" explanation, but it would come of worse, I would think, to lie and be found out.

[wordsmith]

I'm trying to equate it to when I first graduated from college...

I never said, "Well, I WAS a theatre major for a while, but quit that." Though it's true.

I never said, "Well, I got my high school teaching certification, but I hated student teaching and that's why I'm pounding the pavement for this job." Though it's true.

I usually just said, "I have a degree in English." Which is also true. I typically don't even bring up the secondary ed degree, because it begs the inevitable question of "Why didn't you teach?"

[CTGirl]

What background is required for entry level HR, out of curiosity?

You can get into some entry-level HR positions with no experience, but you'll end up doing a lot of administrative stuff.

When I was looking into what career path to take, I found it very helpful to just browse through the postings on monster and careerbuilder to get an idea of what's out there. There's no use gearing yourself up for a career that doesnt really exist.

[wordsmith]

Actually, I meant educational background, rather than experiential.

[CTGirl]

Actually, I meant educational background, rather than experiential.

Oh, sorry, but the same thing applies - it generally doesnt matter. For the really entry-level stuff, they just like to see some sort of admin experience generally. There arent degrees that give you experience with PeopleSoft, so they expect to eaither get people with experience, or train people on the job.

If you're looking to do something on an HR Generalist level, the standards are gonna be a bit higher, but still there is often no specific degree required, just "a college degree"

[wordsmith]

I'm not, really, I just wondered out of curiosity if there were courses of study more preferred than others.

[weary]

i think words would be great in human services like winney suggested, and/or HR. except mabye the part when you have fire people...but nobody likes that. ;) :rolleyes:

[weary]

I'm not, really, I just wondered out of curiosity if there were courses of study more preferred than others.
yes, there are:

business admin
human behavior/development
industrial psychology
organizational devlepment/management
organizational psychology
psychology
sociology

and now there are some actual HR degrees, but that's usually at the graduate level.

[cache]

You can get into some entry-level HR positions with no experience, but you'll end up doing a lot of administrative stuff.

When I was looking into what career path to take, I found it very helpful to just browse through the postings on monster and careerbuilder to get an idea of what's out there. There's no use gearing yourself up for a career that doesnt really exist.

Yeah, if you look into HR, make sure the positions require a degree, otherwise, you may end up doing a lot of admin type stuff. Generalists can usually get in with little experience.

[wordsmith]

yes, there are:

business admin
human behavior/development
industrial psychology
organizational devlepment/management
organizational psychology
psychology
sociology

and now there are some actual HR degrees, but that's usually at the graduate level.

This answers my question...my assumption was that they were mostly psych and business degrees.

[weary]

Yeah, if you look into HR, make sure the positions require a degree, otherwise, you may end up doing a lot of admin type stuff. Generalists can usually get in with little experience.
what? i've never heard that. in my experience most generalists need A LOT of experience b/c they need to know all the areas of HR well enough to do them unsupervised and possibly managing others.

[cache]

what? i've never heard that. in my experience most generalists need A LOT of experience b/c they need to know all the areas of HR well enough to do them unsupervised and possibly managing others.

See, I consider a generalist an entry level position because you do not need specialized knowledge in any specific area. Someone could read 2 books and have enough knowledge to start off as a generalist. I basically started as one, and no one had any problem with my having to look a lot of things up at first.

[weary]

See, I consider a generalist an entry level position because you do not need specialized knowledge in any specific area. Someone could read 2 books and have enough knowledge to start off as a generalist. I basically started as one, and no one had any problem with my having to look a lot of things up at first.

wow, i guess i've just worked at places where generalist is completely diff than what you describe. they are usually senior/managerial and have to have had worked in specialist roles in several diff areas to get to that point. need to know/be able to do soup to nuts, so to speak. recruiting, employee relations (especially investigations and mediations, and EE counseling), benefits administration, recruiting and advertising, policy and process development & administration, HRIS/reports, new employee orientation facilitation, and on and on! i would seriously be shocked to see a generalist title in the same category as entry-level in the companies/environments i worked.

[cache]

wow, i guess i've just worked at places where generalist is completely diff than what you describe. they are usually senior/managerial and have to have had worked in specialist roles in several diff areas to get to that point. need to know/be able to do soup to nuts, so to speak. recruiting, employee relations (especially investigations and mediations, and EE counseling), benefits administration, recruiting and advertising, policy and process development & administration, HRIS/reports, new employee orientation facilitation, and on and on! i would seriously be shocked to see a generalist title in the same category as entry-level in the companies/environments i worked.

Wow, that is completely opposite of my experience. Generalists are those who can fit anywhere and do anything because they have a fundamental understanding of all areas of HR. Once you do that, you move into a specialty. That's at least what I did - from a generalist role to a recruiting and hiring specialty.

That's also why I thought they were called generalists - because they generally know what's going on.

[Skyblade]

Wow, that is completely opposite of my experience. Generalists are those who can fit anywhere and do anything because they have a fundamental understanding of all areas of HR. Once you do that, you move into a specialty. That's at least what I did - from a generalist role to a recruiting and hiring specialty.

That's also why I thought they were called generalists - because they generally know what's going on.

Thats the way it works at the company I am at. The generalist we used to have is now in charge of recruiting.

[CTGirl]

Yeah, I have a couple friends who became HR Generalists straight out of grad school with only little internship experience, and some of them are pretty high up for someone so green.

I'll stick with external HR myself, thank you :D

[shimma]

Evergreatful - I personally don't see the point in staying another semester if you've decided law school/being a lawyer is the wrong thing for you. Just have a good story at your job interviews as to why you dropped out. Don't forget, legal jobs pay enough to pay off law school loans, HR jobs do not.

Caveat: I'm not in HR, and I never went to grad school full time.

[evergreatful]

Evergreatful - I personally don't see the point in staying another semester if you've decided law school/being a lawyer is the wrong thing for you. Just have a good story at your job interviews as to why you dropped out. Don't forget, legal jobs pay enough to pay off law school loans, HR jobs do not.

Caveat: I'm not in HR, and I never went to grad school full time.


Thanks Shimma. Thankfully I'll only have a semester of law loans as opposed to 3 years. So, a lower starting salary is fine. I'll just be thankful to get a job. Now the question is whether I take finals and get 1 grade and the rest W's or not and get all W's.

[shimma]

Thanks Shimma. Thankfully I'll only have a semester of law loans as opposed to 3 years. So, a lower starting salary is fine. I'll just be thankful to get a job. Now the question is whether I take finals and get 1 grade and the rest W's or not and get all W's.


I'd take finals if I were you. Even if you don't do a stellar job, it's not like an HR job is going to want to see the transcript from a 1/6 completed law degree.

[CTGirl]

I'd take finals if I were you. Even if you don't do a stellar job, it's not like an HR job is going to want to see the transcript from a 1/6 completed law degree.

If you dont finish even one term, why would anyone even see your transcript?

[evergreatful]

I don't think a job would ask to see a transcript from a non-degree producing institution. At least I hope not. The only thing would be if I go back to another graduate program someday. But like I said there is going to be at least 3 W's on there because 3 courses are full year courses. So like I said it comes down to do I want one grade or not. I will say I am pretty close to having a nervous breakdown with this whole law school debaucle. Why, oh, why was I so impulsive in going?

[Dude]

Don't feel like you're all alone. I dropped out after first semester of law school and haven't looked back since. It was the best decision I ever made. If you would like to talk or to hear more details regarding my situation, feel free to PM me.

[victoria.o]

If you end up applying to grad school again, you'll have to submit your transcripts. If you're sure that you're done with grad school altogether, then no need to take those finals. But if you're thinking you would still like to go and do something different, it wouldn't be such a bad idea to take those finals, if you still can... good luck with whatever you decide!