Taking suggestions on what I should do when I grow up.

[wordsmith]

As many of you know, I'm trying to get a different job than the one I've had for the past five and a half years, which is newspaper reporting, writing, photography, and editing for a family of small community weeklies. When I took it, the plan was to get a foot in, learn, and rack up 3-5 years' experience if I liked it. The time limit is over, and I've topped out here (well beyond topped out, actually, have been treading water for some time). It's not a bad job, I've gotten a lot out of it and enjoyed it. But I'm not learning anything new to speak of and it's definitely not financially worth sticking around for in any way, shape, or form).

I've been looking with varying degrees of urgency for a while now, for something else. Most recently, I was offered a job with a nonprofit in my former field (youth advocacy/education) in the summer, but I turned it down for numerous reasons and don't regret doing so...it wasn't the job for me to take. I attempted in late summer/fall to get a job in web writing with the marketing department of a research hospital, and that looked really promising and I had a series of positive interviews, but the offer got taken off the table due to circumstances unrelated to me.

I'm spinning my wheels right now with what to even go for, look for, and I've had my spirit more than a little dented by the web writing position drying up on me, because it paid well and was in exactly the place I really wanted to relocate, plus it seemed fun.

I'm posting this because there are enough people on here who know me fairly well, and sometimes other people can point out ideas you didn't consider, the whole "not seeing the forest for the trees." Because all I know right now is that it's time to go, and I don't know where to go.

Some info -

-I have a degree in English/Secondary Education. No, I do not want to teach. I would have to probably take some coursework to revalidate my long-expired certification, anyway.

-My first job was as a youth outreach worker/program director for a nonprofit, where I built a tutoring and mentoring program for inner city kids, focusing on literacy. I love kids, education, one-on-one and small group tutoring. I hate running a classroom.

-I've been involved for the past five and a half years in every phase of publishing newspapers other than selling advertising and designing ads. Everything else, I've done, from planning to reporting to writing to editing to pagination.

-I can write.

- I love grassroots nonprofit stuff, but at this point, it needs to earn me enough money to pay some school debt down, and few things in this sector will do that, so I'm not holding my breath for the elusive well-compensated hands-on (i.e. not administrative) nonprofit job that pays a decent wage, because it doesn't likely exist.

-I don't necessarily want to stay in newspapers. I am growing weary of the on-call aspect, the poor ratio of compensation to workload, and while I love and prefer a small office, it means you're the go-to, jack of all trades, write about everything, and it might be less taxing to just have one beat. However, then, I'd have to go to a larger paper, and I'm not sure that's very me. I prefer weekly pace to daily (I think, never done a daily), but that's typically more of the you-do-it-all subgenre, they don't often have big enough staffs. Pay would still suck, too.

-I'd like to get into web writing/marketing, but doubt that it will happen, because I don't have the experience. The job I was vying for, I stumbled across and had a personal "in," so my resume went straight to the person doing the hiring, rather than get canned upon receipt as it would have been, probably if somebody hadn't been waiting to see it. I wouldn't have gotten as far as I did if I didn't know the person doing hiring. That job did seem to think I'd be good for the position, but I'm skeptical that I'd have a shot most places because I don't have the experience.

-I don't want to do fundraising or grantwriting.

-I don't want to do anything relating to advertising or sales.

-Moving is not an issue. Moving is, in fact, preferred.

-I am not averse to fairly low-paying positions (I've never had a job that's made me even $25K a year), but I do need to tackle some debt, so I can't give away my services, either. And I obviously need to offset COL...the only reason I do now is because I live in a small town.

So what I'm looking for are ideas of what else a person whose main background is writing, also with applicable interests and experience in the nonprofit/human services field (but no MSW or bilingual capabilities, a hindrance in both cases), and in education (but not traditional schools/classroom ed) might consider looking into.

I know it's a lot to read, but I'm just looking for suggestions, things I might not have considered.

[WorkInProgress]

Have you considered tutoring--either just part time, privately, or something closer to full time at one of those after school types (like Sylvan or Springwell)? I'm sure you would do an awesome job with something like that.

[Winter Storm]

The only thing that comes to mind based on your experience and wants to is try and get into marketing for a publishing company. It is what I do and I didn't have that much experience when I started. I started in the ad sales dept as a coordinator and did little bits of marketing there. With your writing skills, I'd think that would count greatly. Writing skills are very essential, the rest can be trained.

[Kitty]

I got into marketing with no experience and an English degree by going after jobs that had "writing" in the title and/or were listed on Craigslist under "Writing." I broke into the marketing field by taking a job doing marketing for a consulting firm where I was mainly editing proposals (very hellish and I don't recommend doing this), I paid my dues there for 1.5 years and then tried to look for something that was more creative and fun. I started at the bottom at the consulting firm (the position was entry level) and so it was definitely paying my dues - I had to do some admin work and so on. However, the starting salary even at entry level jobs in that field/industry are pretty high.

I eventually plan to get into creative directing and am on that path right now. I don't want to just be a writer/contributor because there's really only so high you can go with that (no matter what the industry). I've actually managed to escape that label already and when people introduce me here they say, "Oh, this is our creative genius" or "our creative force" or something like that as opposed to, "our writer." I like writing, but I like a lot of other things as well and I actually think my biggest skill is coming up with and executing truly unique and creative campaigns.

[wordsmith]

Have you considered tutoring--either just part time, privately, or something closer to full time at one of those after school types (like Sylvan or Springwell)? I'm sure you would do an awesome job with something like that.

All Sylvan jobs (at least, here, apart from director ones requiring masters in ed) are part time, I've looked, because there is one newly opened one semi-locally, actually .

I would enjoy it and do well. But I need benefits and full-time hours. I also have no idea of the pay, but I'm betting it's teacher-level or worse.

Kitty - With six years of professional journalistic writing under my belt, how much dues-paying, rockpile-type writing do you think would be expected? This isn't meant to come off as snotty at all, but I'm not exactly green when it comes to writing like some breaking into the business might be. I do get that you need to break in slowly to learn the ins and outs of a new field, but it's not like I'm going to have to be retrained in writing or anything. I'm no stranger to dues-paying, but how does that work out with more than a half a decade of writing experience?

[winneythepooh7]

I am sure you can find something entry-level in human services if you are still interested in this. I often see youth-worker type positions advertised around here. It may be a little more do-able financially if you considered a position like this not in the immediate NYC area.

My first job outside of undergrad was in a residential facility working with teenage girls. Because you are a little bit older and wiser, you may even be able to find some kind of management or assistant management position.

I recently saw a position advertised working with youth in Long Island that was optional-live in.

[shimma]

Technical writing, PR, marketing?

[wordsmith]

I am sure you can find something entry-level in human services if you are still interested in this. I often see youth-worker type positions advertised around here. It may be a little more do-able financially if you considered a position like this not in the immediate NYC area.

My first job outside of undergrad was in a residential facility working with teenage girls. Because you are a little bit older and wiser, you may even be able to find some kind of management or assistant management position.

I recently saw a position advertised working with youth in Long Island that was optional-live in.

The job I was offered this summer, I actually mainly turned down because it was live-in (though that was a draw when I applied, doing a site visit was a reality check that I'm past the dormitory living stage of life).

I can't justify giving up that much of my life, freedom, privacy at this stage. When I was just out of school, it was cool, but for me, those jobs are best left to recent grads. Also, most people don't do residential positions very long term, and at this point, I'm looking for something a little less temporary.

You bring up an interesting point. Because I'm older, I'm more in the running for director-y, advisory type positions in those sorts of setups (if they don't mind no master's degree, at least). The job this summer wanted me as a head of house. But I really prefer hands-on. I'd rather work with kids than supervise other people working with kids. And, yes, I realize that the "money," so to speak (haha, like it's so much) is in being a higher up. I just don't want to be a higher up.

[wordsmith]

Shimmer, Winter...PR/marketing is def. a frontrunner...but I don't have the connections, and I'm skeptical that my experience would look applicable to those in hiring.

[cheshrcarol]

How about some kind of position in youth services program designing? Have you checked out facilities similar to where you were offered the job that you don't actually have to live on site? You know my friend R who has a job like that and lives in an agency subsidized apartment, making her salary much more livable. In fact, if you wanted to move to the NY area, you could probably get a job there.

Or, what about checking your local Big Brothers/Big Sisters offices? My dad's really involved with that and they have a several full time staff, including "coordinator"-type positions. There was one available here recently that paid low to mid 30's.

[pisces2473]

However, the starting salary even at entry level jobs in that field/industry are pretty high.
I know we've had this discussion before, but I want to throw it out for others reading the thread, that starting salaries in marketing jobs depend on the company size, location, COL, industry, etc.

[wordsmith]

Carol - I've talked to R about this, somewhat...it's an idea, for sure. I actually would have taken the job this summer had they provided a separate apartment. It only paid a few thousand more than I make now, but room and board was free. I just couldn't live in a dorm-style room in the attic of the house I'd have been housemother for.

Big Brothers/Sisters is cool....I haven't looked much, because there's no local chapter...I've looked into United Way's similar program, but the pay is sooooo low.

[winneythepooh7]

Well, you can find the optional live-in positions. It's just getting on your feet in the beginning and trying to find an affordable apartment. Also, I am guessing you probably wouldn't want to go the roommate route, either?

[wordsmith]

Thanks for the brainstorming, btw, everyone, it's really helpful.

[Skyblade]

I know the company I work for will be looking for a writer (in marketing) fairly soon in our Portland, Oregon office. However, my boss really wants someone who knows the electronics industry, so it would probably be a push.

I used to work for a PR firm here in SB that specializes in non-profits. Maybe something like that would be good for you?

[Winter Storm]

Shimmer, Winter...PR/marketing is def. a frontrunner...but I don't have the connections, and I'm skeptical that my experience would look applicable to those in hiring.

Just keep it in mind cause I know plenty of people who work in marketing who started elsewhere. We have a coordinator here who was working in finance and a few people who were in editorial-types of positions. I mean my former position was a glorified admin. position and I got in based on the small amount of marketing peices I'd done. I definitely think your editorial and writing skills would be considered as applicable experience.

[wordsmith]

Well, you can find the optional live-in positions. It's just getting on your feet in the beginning and trying to find an affordable apartment. Also, I am guessing you probably wouldn't want to go the roommate route, either?

I'll only go roommates if I absolutely can't afford not to. I always liked living with roommates, but I've been sans for almost six years. I'd prefer to live on my own, but, like I said, if it's a necessity, it's a necessity.

A big part of changing fields, though, is feeling like I'm moving on to something that's gonna allow me to get a little more on my feet, financially, not so scraping by. Jumping to a situation where I can no longer afford to live on my own would feel like a step backward, rather than forward in that sense, I'm afraid.

[wordsmith]

Just keep it in mind cause I know plenty of people who work in marketing who started elsewhere. We have a coordinator here who was working in finance and a few people who were in editorial-types of positions. I mean my former position was a glorified admin. position and I got in based on the small amount of marketing peices I'd done. I definitely think your editorial and writing skills would be considered as applicable experience.

I hear about that, too...but it's so hard to think that you'll be one of the ones given a chance if you have no "in" with an employer to get past the whole, "Oh, this resume shows no experience in this field...next" factor. At the job you know I wanted, I had that in. I don't have it anywhere else. I think my skills are applicable...but I see the postings, and the prereqs...I never have the background they list. I can convince somebody hiring that I can do the job...if I get that chance. But getting the chance...therein lies the rub.

[cheshrcarol]

Carol - I've talked to R about this, somewhat...it's an idea, for sure. I actually would have taken the job this summer had they provided a separate apartment. It only paid a few thousand more than I make now, but room and board was free. I just couldn't live in a dorm-style room in the attic of the house I'd have been housemother for.

Big Brothers/Sisters is cool....I haven't looked much, because there's no local chapter...I've looked into United Way's similar program, but the pay is sooooo low.Yeah, with a job like that you NEED to be able to separate your personal life and space. Her job is not perfect (which I'm sure she's told you), but it's in a field you're interested in and a good springboard, imo.

I also want to say, I think if you play up your writing skills and management experience, you're a lot more qualified for jobs than you think you are. In my experience having the skills is the most important aspect, not so much the experience. I doubt at that other job your resume would have been trashed without an in - you became their top candidate! If your experience was that non-applicable you wouldn't have been able to get as far as you did. Don't sell yourself short.

Can you look for similar positions to that one at other places?

[Winter Storm]

I hear about that, too...but it's so hard to think that you'll be one of the ones given a chance if you have no "in" with an employer to get past the whole, "Oh, this resume shows no experience in this field...next" factor. At the job you know I wanted, I had that in. I don't have it anywhere else. I think my skills are applicable...but I see the postings, and the prereqs...I never have the background they list. I can convince somebody hiring that I can do the job...if I get that chance. But getting the chance...therein lies the rub.

Check your email also.

[winneythepooh7]

Keep in mind too that if you were interested in getting say, your MSW, if you got a foot in the door at certain agencies, maybe not the most glamourous work, but say, here in NYC, there are some agencies that send 2 employees per year to Hunter School of Social Work and it's paid for, in exchange for your agreeing to continue to work at that agency for a couple of years after you get your Master's. Not only that but you would instantly advance with that degree. I mean, it's a process (you probably would have to be at the agency for at least a year before you apply for the Hunter program), but still something to think about.

Let me think on this one a bit and see if I can come up with any other ideas.......

[wordsmith]

I also want to say, I think if you play up your writing skills and management experience, you're a lot more qualified for jobs than you think you are. In my experience having the skills is the most important aspect, not so much the experience.

I agree with you...but unless somebody else sees that and picks up on it, you're left out in the cold with your skills.

Oh, also, I have very little practical management experience (most of what I do have has been really in title only, I've always been very hand-on and in the field, titles are deceptive and vary job to job). I don't think that I have any real applicable managerial experience, nor could I segue into something that is that without giving that away really quickly. I'm not a boss.

I doubt at that other job your resume would have been trashed without an in - you became their top candidate! If your experience was that non-applicable you wouldn't have been able to get as far as you did. Don't sell yourself short.

I'm not, really...I just don't think they would have interviewed somebody with my background had she not known me.

Can you look for similar positions to that one at other places?

I've been looking, but not seeing. She said at the time she'd send stuff she heard of my way, but hasn't really done that.

[shimma]

Shimmer, Winter...PR/marketing is def. a frontrunner...but I don't have the connections, and I'm skeptical that my experience would look applicable to those in hiring.

I beg to differ! Those jobs are all writing and staying on top of shit. Who more qualified than a former journalist?

ETA: Not to mention, your rather impressive/exceptional record of advancement at your current job. Have a little more faith in your marketability.

[wordsmith]

Keep in mind too that if you were interested in getting say, your MSW, if you got a foot in the door at certain agencies, maybe not the most glamourous work, but say, here in NYC, there are some agencies that send 2 employees per year to Hunter School of Social Work and it's paid for, in exchange for your agreeing to continue to work at that agency for a couple of years after you get your Master's. Not only that but you would instantly advance with that degree. I mean, it's a process (you probably would have to be at the agency for at least a year before you apply for the Hunter program), but still something to think about.

Let me think on this one a bit and see if I can come up with any other ideas.......

I would DEFINITELY do entry level stuff for a place (if I could afford to...BIG if, I don't see making enough to live in NYC working very low level in a field I'm not yet credentialed for, and I do have debt to consider), if they were willing to pay for a master's. Right now, the only way I'll entertain the idea of getting a masters if if it's paid for.

[EmberMae]

How far are you willing to move? Just Chicago? I know you're close with your family, so anything further might be tough for you. But New York is really the best place if you want to get into publishing or PR.

Marketing/writing/pr for a non profit might be something that would interest you even though it is more administrative. That can pay pretty well also. I work at a non profit and we had an opening for a communications manager which was basically this role and it paid around 50k.

[weary]

words, any places in particular (other than chicago) you are interested in/oppsed to?

[cheshrcarol]

Those jobs are all writing and staying on top of shit. Who more qualified than a former journalist?That's what I was saying. I think in these cases your cover letter is your best friend. Take the skills they're looking for and spell out exactly why you have that experience. Just don't assume that you're not going to be called for an interview.

[wordsmith]

I beg to differ! Those jobs are all writing and staying on top of shit. Who more qualified than a former journalist?

ETA: Not to mention, your rather impressive/exceptional record of advancement at your current job. Have a little more faith in your marketability.

I agree with you. However, I see the "experience necessary," and I don't have it. Could I do it? Sure. But you can only convince an employer of that if you score an interview, and it's tough if you don't meet their prereqs. Unless you know them, then it's easy. I've sent loads of cover letters (and I'm good at them) to no avail...nada. The only interviews I've scored are ones where I knew/got to talk to the people in person.

Also...my advancement at my job, like my title, is impressive in name-only. Big fish, little pond. Any interviewer worth his or her salt will sniff this reality out in .03 seconds. Editor of a tiny, tiny paper is like being the coolest kid at band camp.

[red]

i'd definitely suggest PR/marketing for you. i think you sort of know what i do-if there is anything i can do to help PM me. i have my own feelings about publishing but something that's not right for me might be right for someone else.

A big part of changing fields, though, is feeling like I'm moving on to something that's gonna allow me to get a little more on my feet, financially, not so scraping by.

i feel your pain. i am in the same position. looking to make a career change- but to what?!?! i recenly had an interview for a job in another field and as the process progressed it turned out that it paid a starting publishing salary. i was like WTF?!?!?! how did i manage to find the job that actually does pay worse than my current job? my husband was all "well you should be prepared to take a pay cut" but i'm like hello! i'm not 22. i haven't been sitting in the basement playing videogames for the past 6 years. i must have skills that can be applied in other industries.

[wordsmith]

words, any places in particular (other than chicago) you are interested in/oppsed to?

Anywhere in the Midwest is favored, because of proximity to family, but I'd go further for the right job. I'm skeptical of really being able to save much on the East Coast (and having more savings is really something I need to be able to do) , and it would be a major sticker shock, because while I am very frugal, I am also used to a much lower COL. I know it will rise from where I am virtually everywhere, but a major city on the east coast would be extreme, I think. I love San Francisco, but the same rule applies, obviously...hideous sticker shock. I would have to be able to count on some pretty good pay to make either an east coast or west coast move, and I'm not sure how realistic that is, from what I read. I confess I'm kind of anti NY, but that's only becaue of the things I read about how unaffordable it is, and I'm pretty broke and my fields just don't pay.

The only thing I'm opposed to is suburbia, regardless of where. I'm equal parts a country girl and a city girl. Not so much the in between.


This would probably be ideal for me - Marketing/writing/pr for a non profit might be something that would interest you even though it is more administrative. That can pay pretty well also. I work at a non profit and we had an opening for a communications manager which was basically this role and it paid around 50k.

[wordsmith]

i'd definitely suggest PR/marketing for you. i think you sort of know what i do-if there is anything i can do to help PM me. i have my own feelings about publishing but something that's not right for me might be right for someone else.



i feel your pain. i am in the same position. looking to make a career change- but to what?!?! i recenly had an interview for a job in another field and as the process progressed it turned out that it paid a starting publishing salary. i was like WTF?!?!?! how did i manage to find the job that actually does pay worse than my current job? my husband was all "well you should be prepared to take a pay cut" but i'm like hello! i'm not 22. i haven't been sitting in the basement playing videogames for the past 6 years. i must have skills that can be applied in other industries.

Seriously...if I wanna be broke, I can stay at my current job...which is where I thought I was paying my dues so I don't HAVE to be broke forever/at the next job.

PR/marketing is coming out the most appealing, no suprise, since I've been leaning that way, anyway...but the question now is where to find the most opportunities?

[spokes]

any chance you could throw a baseball at around 100 mph - if so there are lots of opportunities for fame and wealth.

what about companies that pump out lots of printed stuff like insurance companies.

i am assuming that the military is also not on your radar?

[wordsmith]

what about companies that pump out lots of printed stuff like insurance companies.

One thing I can't do is work for insurance companies. People can call me judgmental if they like, but I really couldn't bring myself to do it. It ranks right up there for me personally and philosophically with working for organized crime. :rolleyes:



i am assuming that the military is also not on your radar?

You assume correctly, been there, done that. I wouldn't get in, anyway.

[pisces2473]

i feel your pain. i am in the same position. looking to make a career change- but to what?!?! i recenly had an interview for a job in another field and as the process progressed it turned out that it paid a starting publishing salary. i was like WTF?!?!?! how did i manage to find the job that actually does pay worse than my current job? my husband was all "well you should be prepared to take a pay cut" but i'm like hello! i'm not 22. i haven't been sitting in the basement playing videogames for the past 6 years. i must have skills that can be applied in other industries.
That's how I feel....*sigh*

[pisces2473]

And whats up with nonprofits paying 50K??? Wow, I work FOR profit and I don't think anyone makes that here...

[Kitty]

Kitty - With six years of professional journalistic writing under my belt, how much dues-paying, rockpile-type writing do you think would be expected? This isn't meant to come off as snotty at all, but I'm not exactly green when it comes to writing like some breaking into the business might be. I do get that you need to break in slowly to learn the ins and outs of a new field, but it's not like I'm going to have to be retrained in writing or anything. I'm no stranger to dues-paying, but how does that work out with more than a half a decade of writing experience?

I'm sure it's going to depend on a lot of variables like whether or not they're willing to train you, what skills they're looking for specially, etc.

My guess is that you'd probably be best suited to transition your skills into either:

1. A marketing job centered around writing. These are typically going to be lower positions because you're mostly a contributor and aren't doing any managing of people, or entire projects, etc. I would say the range of experience for these jobs is 1-7 years, so you're actually in the ballpark. I don't think you'd have a problem getting a job that was above entry level if the job was focused mostly on writing and editing (ESPECIALLY if it's writing and editing something you have experience in).

2. PR. Because you're in journalism it's an easy cross over. Although, you're going to have to find a place that values the writing side of PR as opposed to the whole who do you know and what connections do you have angle.

If you go for a more general marketing job, then you probably will start out entry level and may have problems even getting in.

[Kitty]

I'd also like to point out that PR and marketing are very different. I think there's a side of PR that you would absolutely hate (the networking, trying to get stories published, schmoozing with contacts, etc.) There are PR jobs that don't involve any of that, but it's still a side of PR that isn't very pretty or fun, IMO.

[wordsmith]

Definitely centered around writing is what I'm going for. I'm not really interested in supervising people or projects other than my own.

Part of the reason the job I was hoping to get was so appealing was because it was an informational marketing job that was centered 100% around interviewing doctors on what was new with them and their programs and patients and writing about it, and, along with a team of writers, keeping the information on the websites up to date and fresh, researching and interviewing as necessary. It was completely what I'd like to do.

[wordsmith]

Yeah, I'm not so much PR unless it consists solely of writing literature for whatever org or company. I don't bother with the schmoozing that's part and parcel of my current job, I'm not likely to take on another one that's so dependent upon it. Def. not an interest.

I know they're nto the same, I just list them together, because they're so often listed together when you're job searching. I know and always have known that a schmoozing position isn't for me, and wouldn't pursue one.

[coll214]

On the more educational side, what about private companies that do literacy tutoring? My cousin actually just started one up here in CT and she's already beginning to see a lot of business, has rented office space, etc.

[wordsmith]

And whats up with nonprofits paying 50K??? Wow, I work FOR profit and I don't think anyone makes that here...


It really depends on the size of the org. There are monstrously huge nonprofits.

[weary]

And whats up with nonprofits paying 50K??? Wow, I work FOR profit and I don't think anyone makes that here...

depends on the NP. come to DC...it's the non-profit mecca. i am often shocked by the salaries they pay, to both extremes (high and low).

[Winter Storm]

And whats up with nonprofits paying 50K??? Wow, I work FOR profit and I don't think anyone makes that here...

I'm also working FOR profit and aint making that! :rolleyes:

[wordsmith]

On the more educational side, what about private companies that do literacy tutoring? My cousin actually just started one up here in CT and she's already beginning to see a lot of business, has rented office space, etc.

Would love it. Being a reading tutor is REALLY high on my list, but it's hard to come by it full-time and for $$$.

[wordsmith]

I'm also working FOR profit and aint making that! :rolleyes:

I'm not even making HALF that, so don't feel badly.

[wordsmith]

depends on the NP. come to DC...it's the non-profit mecca. i am often shocked by the salaries they pay, to both extremes (high and low).


I actually like DC. The volunteer organization I signed on with, which is how I got into nonprofit, is based there, on N Street, and I spent time there for trainings.

[Winter Storm]

depends on the NP. come to DC...it's the non-profit mecca. i am often shocked by the salaries they pay, to both extremes (high and low).

Yeah, I might have to look into that market in the future.

[pisces2473]

I actually like DC. The volunteer organization I signed on with, which is how I got into nonprofit, is based there, on N Street, and I spent time there for trainings.
Are THEY hiring?

[weary]

I actually like DC. The volunteer organization I signed on with, which is how I got into nonprofit, is based there, on N Street, and I spent time there for trainings.

Yeah, I might have to look into that market in the future.

my fellow W's....you've always got a place to stay if you make it down here for interviews. ;)

[wordsmith]

Are THEY hiring?

Usually, but not often in DC, because they need regional directors for the cities they have programs in across the country. There's a ton of turnover in those positions, though, because they kind of pay dick. If I were a regional director for them (which I could do), I would live in DC, Baltimore, Wilmington (Delaware), Milwaukee, Mpls/St. Paul, Chicago, Seattle, Tacoma, or Berkeley...all the cities they have programs. They actually had an opening in the Berkeley office advertised over the summer, but it was when I was interviewing so hardcore for DreamJob, unfortunately, and had a bit much on my plate.

Their programs are summer to summer, so July/Aug is the natural turnover time. But, as I said, the turnover is so high, it's more a labor of love than a way to support yourself...kind of like the org itself. I don't know any regional directors who were doing it as a primary income, all had spouses who were the breadwinners.

It is an AWESOME org, and I highly advocate for it, don't get me wrong...I just don't think I'm in the financial shape to work for them.

[wordsmith]

my fellow W's....you've always got a place to stay if you make it down here for interviews. ;)

Sweet, good to know.

[TinyDancer]

Hey Words,

I'm just thinking. . . at my college, there were some really cool jobs where people focused on publications/newsletters for the college. . . and jobs where people "marketed" courses or programs.

Another thought: My sister works as an advisor for a student newspaper/yearbook at a college. It's a separate entitity from the university, but she gets to work with students, be creative, etc. She loves it.

Just thought I'd throw out a few more things to think about. . .

[J-girl]

Wordsmith- Its tough when you know what you like to do but you dont know what exactly you want to do in terms of career.

I dont think they will reject you because you dont have experience. You have experience in a proper work enviroment and that what matters most. You have enough experience working in a team etc. Skills are secondary.

And most recruiters just put 5 years experience just for the heck of it.

When it comes to writing jobs, sky is the limit I think.

[wordsmith]

Yup, def. an idea.

My own alma mater fills its alumni magazine mostly with articles that, while often by alumni, are done on a freelance basis. If they actually hired staff for it, other than a managing editor, I'd be all over that.

They also have an advisor for their campus paper, but it's rolled as double duty with some other job which requires graduate work in higher ed, unfortunately.

[texasgirl]

Have you thought about mgmt positions at an educational organization, such as Teach For America or for-profits like The Princeton Review or Kaplan? I think you'd be great at that.

[wordsmith]

Management isn't really my strong suit. I'm far more the person doing the hands on work than the person doling it out, and don't really enjoy being the person managing things.

[winneythepooh7]

Wordsmith- Its tough when you know what you like to do but you dont know what exactly you want to do in terms of career.

I dont think they will reject you because you dont have experience. You have experience in a proper work enviroment and that what matters most. You have enough experience working in a team etc. Skills are secondary.

And most recruiters just put 5 years experience just for the heck of it.

When it comes to writing jobs, sky is the limit I think.


It's not that easy in human services though. They really are looking for someone with a BSW or MSW, especially for positions that I could see Words would be good for. Because of the way many human services programs are funded, there often is not away around this either. I know I've not been able to hire people where I work because they don't have a MSW or Master's in Rehab Counseling, nursing, etc. and this is something that the state who funds our program, lists the candidate MUST have to be considered.

[Kitty]

Management isn't really my strong suit. I'm far more the person doing the hands on work than the person doling it out, and don't really enjoy being the person managing things.

As long as you don't say that in an interview!

[wordsmith]

It's not even just human services stuff. It even enters into the writing field, too.

Employers will look (and have looked) at my experience and say/said "Huh, I see you have seven years of writing professionally, but you've never done marketing, and that's a concern," versus look at the fact that I have the skills if not the direct experience. Which is also really kind of dumb, because a lot of what I write for the paper IS actually marketing, and that the writing I did when I was in nonprofit was DEFINITELY marketing my program.

[wordsmith]

As long as you don't say that in an interview!

Of course not, nor would I ever apply for a management position. People who dont' have an interest in managing shoudl NOT be managers.

[winneythepooh7]

As a "Manager" in the human services field, I can definitely say it's not a walk in the park. You have to put up with a lot of BS for very little support financially and amongst your colleagues, as well. I can honestly say I often miss my days of just doing direct care work, and not being responsible for the major crises that always seem to happen when you are in management and have to clean up the messes.

[Kitty]

Yeah, I'm to the point where I want to start managing. I'm making an effort to get on the promotion track. I dont' necessarily want to manage people, but I would like to manage and lead entire projects.

[J-girl]

It's not that easy in human services though. They really are looking for someone with a BSW or MSW, especially for positions that I could see Words would be good for. Because of the way many human services programs are funded, there often is not away around this either. I know I've not been able to hire people where I work because they don't have a MSW or Master's in Rehab Counseling, nursing, etc. and this is something that the state who funds our program, lists the candidate MUST have to be considered.
Yeah I agree with Human Services you definately need experience. But I was talking about Marketing/PR jobs that require writing.

I took a few PR courses last year and there is definately more to PR than schmoozing (which requires a double A kind of personality). But then there are jobs that specifically ask you to be a good writer like the person who writes PRess releases etc.

[Josie]

For reals, I thought that a lot of marketing jobs are one of the first on the chopping block, should companies go in the red. I think Kitty's situation is different because the employer is so large?


I deal with a lot of low/very-low income community developers...it seems like a very nice/rewarding job.

Words, you deserve so much better it just makes me sick. I just feel like your location has about zero opportunities.

[winneythepooh7]

Yeah, I'm to the point where I want to start managing. I'm making an effort to get on the promotion track. I dont' necessarily want to manage people, but I would like to manage and lead entire projects.


It's very intimadating sometimes, especially when I have to be the "bad guy". I have to keep reminding myself that my staff are my clients now and to work with them for their strengths and their weaknesses, like I would with a client if I was in more of a "direct care" role.

[wordsmith]

Yeah, I'm to the point where I want to start managing. I'm making an effort to get on the promotion track. I dont' necessarily want to manage people, but I would like to manage and lead entire projects.

This isn't me at all.

My ideal setting is working independently on projects. I like coming up with them, but I don't like supervising others working on them. If I'm on a team, which I like okay, I'm more a do-er than a leader, but ultimately, I prefer to be working independently on projects I've designed most of all. I like being under my own steam, and not having to deal with other people potentially dropping the ball. I don't like delegating, I can do it, but really don't like to, I'd rather just do things myself.

[winneythepooh7]

This isn't me at all.

My ideal setting is working independently on projects. I like coming up with them, but I don't like supervising others working on them. If I'm on a team, which I like okay, I'm more a do-er than a leader, but ultimately, I prefer to be working independently on projects I've designed most of all. I like being under my own steam, and not having to deal with other people potentially dropping the ball.

What about Service Coordination or Case Management? You are still pretty independent and only really responsible for your caseload. Plus, your background in writing is really needed because the amount of documentation that is needed.

[Josie]

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/npo/240767751.html

[Josie]

I've worked with a weed n' seed before:

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/npo/238796212.html

[wordsmith]

Def. probably a good fit, but I don't have the necessary degree that's often needed. I've seen a few case management positions that didn't demand a master's, but not many. That's definitely the sort of setup I do best with, though.

[wordsmith]

Josie, that first one sounds awesome.

[winneythepooh7]

Def. probably a good fit, but I don't have the necessary degree that's often needed. I've seen a few case management positions that didn't demand a master's, but not many. That's definitely the sort of setup I do best with, though.

My suggestion is to try applying anyway. Honestly, I KNOW people who were Case Managers in past agencies I've worked for who didn't have the human-service related degree. I think case management is often a little more flexible in that respect.

[Josie]

I think that with being the state capital and all here....there's just a ton of non-profit or for-profit jobs....in the zaniest of fields.

As for the first one, we've got huge water issues here.:rolleyes:

[Kitty]

This isn't me at all.

My ideal setting is working independently on projects. I like coming up with them, but I don't like supervising others working on them. If I'm on a team, which I like okay, I'm more a do-er than a leader, but ultimately, I prefer to be working independently on projects I've designed most of all. I like being under my own steam, and not having to deal with other people potentially dropping the ball. I don't like delegating, I can do it, but really don't like to, I'd rather just do things myself.

Hate to burst your bubble, but I doubt you'll be working independently in marketing. Your most likely going to be getting content from other people, sending it to others for review, working with graphic designers, printers, etc. It's pretty interactive and you are pretty dependent on others.

[Josie]

Oh and as for the 1st one, the requirements pretty much fit your experience/skills to a "T"...+/- the previous experience on the water stuff.:D

[wordsmith]

Eh, my writing thus far has been pretty catchall, due to our size...so I've actually done a reasonable amount of research and writing on environmental issues with the soil and water conservation districts...it comes up a lot in our agriculture publications.

[Kitty]

It's very intimadating sometimes, especially when I have to be the "bad guy". I have to keep reminding myself that my staff are my clients now and to work with them for their strengths and their weaknesses, like I would with a client if I was in more of a "direct care" role.

Yeah, I really dont' want to manage people for that reason. I already manage projects for the most part, but there are a few elements within the projects taht I feel I am too dependent on my boss for (this has to do with analysis and tracking, etc.). I'd like to be managing ALL aspects of the marketing within a project, if that makes sense.

[wordsmith]

Yup, I am not cool with being thrust into situaitons where I have to be the heavy, if I got off on that, I'd have gone into law enforcement...just not my personality type.

Right now, I work independently within a team setting, it's a hybrid of both doing my own thing, others doing theirs, and us putting it together at the end stage like a puzzle, literally. If that makes sense. Independently collaborative, or collaboratively independent. I still work with a production department, advertisers, etc. But I'm on my own as to how I go about doing my piece of things, it's a team only in the sense that we put it all together at the end.

I was the kid who HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATED group projects in high school and college with a passion. Let me work on my own, and tie it all together at the end, and we're good.

[Kitty]

One of the things I enjoy most is being part of a really productive, supportive, enthusastic team. I like to hear the thoughts and ideas of others and sharing my own as well. I actually prefer to work in a setting where my job is highly interactive with others on my team.

[wordsmith]

I like brainstorming with others, but I MUST work on my own, in legwork and execution.

[Kitty]

One thing to be aware of with marketing writing is that you have a lot of stakeholders and so you will have to compromise quite often. This was REALLY hard for me at first, but I've gotten better at dealing with it.

[wordsmith]

Totally will be something to get used to if I go that route, because it's obviously very different with news writing.

Right now, I struggle with our ad reps, because if I write something that's an editorial piece (i.e. NOT ad copy, and therefore not paid) for an advertiser, I do NOT have to submit it to them for approval, and they don't get that sometimes. In my own feature and business writing, while I may show a business or advertiser copy to have them verify factual info, I do NOT have to let them dictate how I go about my writing stylistically, and this is something that's a learning curve for some advertisers, and the ad reps don't always clue them in that they don't get to approve newspaper stories (unless I choose to hand them over beforehand, at my discretion)...only ads. Advertisers have a say in how an ad looks, b/c they're paying for it. They don't have a say in what a news story says, though, or how the writer says it.

I do understand that this is different from marketing, obviously.

[spokes]

so after 6 pages and 82 posts have you narrowed it down?

since you seem to have an issue with insurance companies i am assuming that carney and/or grifter are not on your list of dream jobs.

[wordsmith]

Hah. Maybe carney if I'm writing a piece on it. But a circus roustabout would be more fun to shadow. I did once cover the roustabouts putting up a big top with elephants. Cool stuff.

[pisces2473]

It's not even just human services stuff. It even enters into the writing field, too.

Employers will look (and have looked) at my experience and say/said "Huh, I see you have seven years of writing professionally, but you've never done marketing, and that's a concern," versus look at the fact that I have the skills if not the direct experience. Which is also really kind of dumb, because a lot of what I write for the paper IS actually marketing, and that the writing I did when I was in nonprofit was DEFINITELY marketing my program.
Jess, you have to sell yourself, and say to them, "Well, as you can see my story on blah blah blah was, in a way, marketing, because..." and then go on to elaborate.

[pisces2473]

Hate to burst your bubble, but I doubt you'll be working independently in marketing. Your most likely going to be getting content from other people, sending it to others for review, working with graphic designers, printers, etc. It's pretty interactive and you are pretty dependent on others.
Definitely true, esp. when the company you work for is a durable goods manufacturer, like mine is. I can't do ANYTHING if my product isn't going out.

[wordsmith]

Jess, you have to sell yourself, and say to them, "Well, as you can see my story on blah blah blah was, in a way, marketing, because..." and then go on to elaborate.

Yeah, I know...but you have to get to the interview stage to do that. I'm talking about when they see on your resume and cover letter that you're new to the game and have a writing background, but not the EXACT, tailor-made one they're looking for. I have NO problem selling myself in an interview, but I can't MAKE anybody grant me an interview if they don't have the foresight to look at my goods and say, "Hmm, I bet this is applicable" without me explaining why. My entire point is that it's hard getting considered. If I get considered, I can sell myself, not a problem.

[pisces2473]

You have to sell yourself in your cover letter and follow ups.

Don't beat yourself up so much!

[wordsmith]

Definitely true, esp. when the company you work for is a durable goods manufacturer, like mine is. I can't do ANYTHING if my product isn't going out.

That's not what I'm really talking about though, when I talk about independent work v. collaborative, though.

Case in point...what I do now is obv. dependent on others. I can't finish a story if a source is hard to contact, or if facts can't be verified in time for deadline...so I'm dependent upon people being reachable/getting back to me, who I DON'T work with. I can't lay out my pages unless ad production designs the dummies, i.e. what space is available for my editorial content. So I'm dependent upon them to do their work, selling and placing the ads. I can't send the pages to the press unless the graphic designer in ad production places her ads, so I'm dependent on that to occur before the paper can be printed, or even sent to the pressmen. I'm dependent upon the pressmen doing their thing to even get a paper. I'm no stranger to there being multiple efforts upon which my work hinges. I get that aspect of teamwork. But I dont write stories, the core of what I do, collaboratively. Some stuff just has to be me.

[wordsmith]

You have to sell yourself in your cover letter and follow ups.

Don't beat yourself up so much!

Dude, I'm not. I'm going on the fact that I don't get interviews unless I have an in. Ever. Which tells me that nobody's extrapolating my usefulness for the job from my accomplishments and credentials. Or just not reading my resume. I have no way of knowing which. And I can't do anything about either.

I'm not annoyed with myself at all. I'm annoyed with employers who can't manage to connect the dots and figure out that somebody who can write and produce and meet deadlines for a newspaper can do the same in their department without really having a tremendous learning curve.

[pisces2473]

I know you don't like spending a lot of money on things, but have you ever considered meeting with a resume writer/job coach type person? It might really help.

[Kitty]

If you do anything related to layout of the paper, I would definitely play that up, for example, "Experience using x program to layout the paper making sure that it achieved x and x goal while working under a tight deadline." That sounds very marketing-y.

I would also play up the fact that you've developed contacts within the community, developed relationships, etc.

Another thing is to play up your ability to manage content. Like, "ability to manage content from various sources" and "ability to achieve consitent style and tone throughout paper/article by incorporating content from multiple sources" etc.

ETA: You could also add something about working with the sales and ad department of your paper. In marketing, it's always important that you work with advertising, PR, and sales people.

[yankeeyosh]

Yeah, I know...but you have to get to the interview stage to do that. I'm talking about when they see on your resume and cover letter that you're new to the game and have a writing background, but not the EXACT, tailor-made one they're looking for. I have NO problem selling myself in an interview, but I can't MAKE anybody grant me an interview if they don't have the foresight to look at my goods and say, "Hmm, I bet this is applicable" without me explaining why. My entire point is that it's hard getting considered. If I get considered, I can sell myself, not a problem.

Bingo. Bingo. Bingo. Although I can't sell myself even at the interview.

[Kitty]

You have to explain to them how it's applicable in the cover letter and resume - that's what it's all about.

[wordsmith]

Okay...I'm gonna sound like an arrogant bitch, so I apologize in advance... I'm not frustrated or offended, and appreciate the advice, I just want to clarify my concerns...

I do know how to write a resume; beyond my own, I've written them for others, as well. Not to say it can't ever be improved, so I'm always sending it off to people to get feedback, have redone it and submitted it quite a few different ways, tweaked, rewritten, changed up the format, still including the things that need to be included, that are selling points, but playing with different ways of saying them. But, to be honest, whether or not my resume is any good just isn't a big worry. Again, sorry if that sounds arrogant.

I've never received negative feedback on the content when I've had people critique it, just varying opinions on format and order and organization, which I've taken into consideration and played with quite a bit. But again, matters of taste more than actually changing anything in it. So I'm not really worried that there's anything wrong with my resumes or cover letters. I do write a hell of a cover letter. Not that it matters if it doesn't get looked at, obviously, which is really what I'm more up against...sheer numbers. My stuff's good, I have no doubt. It's just up against a lot of other applicants. So it might get looked at, it might not. That's where having a connection gets you on the fast track and out of the bin with all the other resumes.

If you do anything related to layout of the paper, I would definitely play that up, for example, "Experience using x program to layout the paper making sure that it achieved x and x goal while working under a tight deadline." That sounds very marketing-y.

It's in there, phrased almost exactly that way.

I would also play up the fact that you've developed contacts within the community, developed relationships, etc.

Definitely already a bullet point, one of the top ones.

Another thing is to play up your ability to manage content. Like, "ability to manage content from various sources" and "ability to achieve consitent style and tone throughout paper/article by incorporating content from multiple sources" etc.

Absolutely already in there.

ETA: You could also add something about working with the sales and ad department of your paper. In marketing, it's always important that you work with advertising, PR, and sales people.

Definitely have noted in it my ability to work collaboratively with sales and ad production, as well as our editorial staff.

[wordsmith]

You have to explain to them how it's applicable in the cover letter and resume - that's what it's all about.

Yeah, I do. Again, not frustrated, just explaining. But if somebody doesn't see how you're a good fit, they're not going to.

Really, though, this isn't the track I intended to go down with this thread. I really only posted it to get some ideas of careers I may not have seriously considered before.

[wordsmith]

I know you don't like spending a lot of money on things, but have you ever considered meeting with a resume writer/job coach type person? It might really help.


With all due respect, I'm VERY confident my resume is top notch.

[pisces2473]

Jess, there's gotta be a way for you to get a job w/out an in. SO many people get jobs that way.

[wordsmith]

Really? My impression is that most jobs are obtained through personal connections and networking. I know mine all have been, as well as any interview I've gotten. I've never gotten anything cold, and know way more people who've gotten the majority of their jobs through a personal connection or networking than through cold calls and unsolicited resumes.

Hmmm...this is all making me feel pretty defensive, which definitely wasn't my intent in asking for career field suggestions and brainstorming.

[pisces2473]

With all due respect, I'm VERY confident my resume is top notch.
Um, I didn't just mean resume stuff...I was actually recommending it to you more in terms of what careers/jobs might be open to you.

[wordsmith]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

There aren't really any services for that here, outside of temp agencies, we're a little rural for career counseling to be much of a cash cow. So I've use my alma mater's campus resource center, am part of a few related forums, and do a lot of reading and asking around. I have a lot of ideas, obviously, I was just sounding off for more. I hope I haven't come off as having no idea what I want to do, that's never been the case. Was more just looking for things I might not have considered. I didn't mean for the thread to come off like, "Help me, I have no idea what I should do!" That's not the case, I was simply looking for other angles and perspectives.

[pisces2473]

Really? My impression is that most jobs are obtained through personal connections and networking. I know mine all have been, as well as any interview I've gotten. I've never gotten anything cold, and know way more people who've gotten the majority of their jobs through a personal connection or networking than through cold calls and unsolicited resumes.

Hmmm...this is all making me feel pretty defensive, which definitely wasn't my intent in asking for career field suggestions and brainstorming.
My first post-college job at Yale: total shot in the dark. Guess they were looking for someone who was smart and could follow directions.

Second job: I had research skills from summer internships and I worked at the library. I was outgoing and positive.

Third job: I worked at the second job, which is loosely connected, industry-wise.

I didn't have anyone giving me heads up on positions, in fact, the 2nd job I found in the paper, and the 3rd job was on Monster. I didn't know anyone, and no one knew me.

The ONLY job I got by knowing someone was when I worked for a former professor.

[wordsmith]

My current job, I found in the paper (THAT paper, obv.). But I did know everyone in hiring. That matters. My previous job, I volunteered for them for a year, and they hired me for pay. I've never gotten a job where I'm a total stranger with no in whatsoever.

[pisces2473]

My current job, I found in the paper (THAT paper, obv.). But I did know everyone in hiring. That matters. My previous job, I volunteered for them for a year, and they hired me for pay. I've never gotten a job where I'm a total stranger with no in whatsoever.
How many jobs have you had, post-college? Two. Both you had an in, esp. the hometown job.

All of your jobs in HS and college, were local, right? Of course you had ins with those. Small town, everyone knows you.

Of course, now you can't get another job in your area with an "in" only because you've outgrown the town. This is basically what the rest of us deal with in our job searches. I'm not saying this to make you feel badly, but only to let you know that you are NOT alone.

[wordsmith]

I'm not just talking about the jobs I've held, though...I'm talking all the ones I've applied for (and there have been many, and none have been in hometown/small towns). I've ONLY gotten interviews from the ones where I actually knew somebody. It does matter. The job this fall at the University? Wouldn't have even KNOWN about it had I not known the person hiring.

[pisces2473]

But you can't keep thinking like that. Sometimes things DO happen. Why have I been able to get jobs where I know no one??? I do NOT have these sweet qualifications and experiences that would make me jump to the top of ANYONE's pile.

[wordsmith]

I know, Jen, I'm honestly not woe is me-ing, here, just stating my experience.

I know it's nothing I'm doing wrong, it's the luck of the draw. My only frustration is, like anybody else, I can't sell myself to anybody who won't give the chance to. In the instances where I've gotten the chance, the selling's no problem.

Seriously, I'm not being all "Ohhhh, angst" here. It's luck and timing and nothing else. I've done everything to the letter. I know this.

[Josie]

Words, how many jobs are you applying for? Like say in the last year, how many resumes have you sent out?

My first real job out of college was completely blind. I didn't have an in at all.

I just saturated everyone with my resume and an application. ANY job, even if I wasn't qualified because maybe they had some other job that wasn't noticed that I could do.