Who thinks Tolu (USA Today) is an idiot?

[rodski]

I'm sorry but does anyone feel sorry for Tolu and his credit debt problem? Anyone smart enough to get his MBA ought to be smart enough to understand that putting $35,000 on a credit card to travel the world will eventually have to be paid back. Who wouldn't want to travel the world over 2 years on credit and not pay for it right away... That's fine but don't whine about having to pay it back, especially when you have a job that pays over $100,000.

Why usatoday even did a story on this guy is beyond me. I had about $20,000 in college debt 12 years ago and he has $25,000 now?? Big Deal!!

Seems to me like a lot of young people who are in debt other than college loans is becsuse they want everything now. Instead of driving a 10+ year old clunker while in college and cheap clothes, they drive new leased cars and SUVs, wear Polo and other designer clothes, wear expensive jewelry...Do I need to go on??

I won't say how it was back "in my day" i'm only only 34 but things have changed a lot since then. Don't get me wrong everyone seems to spend a little more then they have myself included, but be smart. If you are smart enough to graduate college then you are smart enough what you are doing. Maybe its all these new "helicopter" parents that don't let their kids learn for themselves and do everything for them, then it's too late and people end up here complaining about their debt. Let's hear it!!

[cache]

A co-worker was telling me about a classmate who took out a 5K loan just before graduation so he could spend the summer in Europe.

[wordsmith]

I do know people who were able to take time off to travel, "do Europe," etc. But I don't know that I know of anybody who did it on their own dime (or borrowed money). Everyone I knew who did something like that did it as a gift from well-off families.

[SpaceMonkey]

I'm sorry but does anyone feel sorry for Tolu and his credit debt problem?

Nope, not me, either. If he can't figure out how to budget himself on $100K in Minneapolis, he has serious problems that are beyond simply being young and accruing "normal" debt.

[CTGirl]

Unfortunately, its entirely possible these days for someone to go through undergraduate and graduate education, and still be a complete moron by most standards :rolleyes:

[analogman]

Didn't read the USA today article the OP was referring to but I have this to say:
An MBA who doesn't know how to manage money and doesn't understand debt needs to pay back; that's not someone I want to run a business :eek:

[arrow]

I do know people who were able to take time off to travel, "do Europe," etc. But I don't know that I know of anybody who did it on their own dime (or borrowed money). Everyone I knew who did something like that did it as a gift from well-off families.

I did... but I got myself a $250 BUNAC work permit just after graduation, a $450 student discounted plane ticket, and had about 1K in the bank. I worked and traveled off-and-on while abroad... working for about 4 of six months and traveling for two months on the money saved. Lots of people do it that way, and when you don't have much, it's about the only thing you CAN do to travel Europe.

Who is this Tolu idiot anyway?

[rodski]

Tolu is this week's featured person on how much in debt everyone is. It's a weekly series usatoday.com is writing.

[sondra_finchley]

I semi-conned the system in order to go spend the summer in Europe on a bit of a student loan. *blushes embarassed*. In fact, almost all of my student loan debt of $13K is due to travelling and studying abroad over the past 6 years. I had no debt as an undergrad- I dont see this as much of a problem as it stands- based on how i live and how I save and what the payments are on this all- sure maybe its not the smartest thing to do, but its justified in its own way. Besides, I also moved on that money and saved up an additional $10K at my job before I left. That being said, I didnt exactly travel all over the place either.

I did BUNAC too- only I had a bf at the time who I was living with in London so I was able to save almost all of my income.

As for this guy- pfffff- I want to read this article now. Can he seriously not make it on $100K in MSP?

*read article*

Hmmmm- I can see where hes coming from but wow- thats a real hole to start in. And damnit it annoys me when MBAs that are my age make lots more than I do just because they did an MBA. I took some of those classes as part of my Econ Masters curriculum and they were dead easy. Why do those three letters make those people command those sorts of salaries?

[NewMrs.]

And damnit it annoys me when MBAs that are my age make lots more than I do just because they did an MBA. I took some of those classes as part of my Econ Masters curriculum and they were dead easy. Why do those three letters make those people command those sorts of salaries?


At one of my previous jobs, the owner/president's executive assistant finished her MBA a few months after she started the job. It was obvious that she was trying to find a better job, but was having no luck. This was a family-owned company in a very economically depressed city. I would be very surprised if the executive assitant's salary was over $35K, even with her MBA. She kept trying to get our employer to promote her, but it never really happened. They changed her title to "Marketing Manager" or "Marketing Coordinator" or something along those lines. However, she still had to answer her boss' phone and plan all of his travel and all of the other things that executive assistants have to do. After a few years of this, she just up and quit one day after they told her that she could participate in a sales training session, and then told her the day of the training that she couldn't go after all because she had to stay in the office and answer the phone.

[arrow]

At one of my previous jobs, the owner/president's executive assistant finished her MBA a few months after she started the job. It was obvious that she was trying to find a better job, but was having no luck. This was a family-owned company in a very economically depressed city. I would be very surprised if the executive assitant's salary was over $35K, even with her MBA. She kept trying to get our employer to promote her, but it never really happened. They changed her title to "Marketing Manager" or "Marketing Coordinator" or something along those lines. However, she still had to answer her boss' phone and plan all of his travel and all of the other things that executive assistants have to do. After a few years of this, she just up and quit one day after they told her that she could participate in a sales training session, and then told her the day of the training that she couldn't go after all because she had to stay in the office and answer the phone.


What a slap in the face! Good for the woman for quitting after that.

[NewMrs.]

What a slap in the face! Good for the woman for quitting after that.


About a year ago, I saw an article about her in a local newspaper. Apparently she started her own specialty store in a local downtown shopping district. She was interested in horses, and her new store sells horse grooming products and supplies. I hope that it works out for her.

[NewMrs.]

I'm sorry but does anyone feel sorry for Tolu and his credit debt problem? Anyone smart enough to get his MBA ought to be smart enough to understand that putting $35,000 on a credit card to travel the world will eventually have to be paid back. Who wouldn't want to travel the world over 2 years on credit and not pay for it right away... That's fine but don't whine about having to pay it back, especially when you have a job that pays over $100,000.

Why usatoday even did a story on this guy is beyond me. I had about $20,000 in college debt 12 years ago and he has $25,000 now?? Big Deal!!

Seems to me like a lot of young people who are in debt other than college loans is becsuse they want everything now. Instead of driving a 10+ year old clunker while in college and cheap clothes, they drive new leased cars and SUVs, wear Polo and other designer clothes, wear expensive jewelry...Do I need to go on??

I won't say how it was back "in my day" i'm only only 34 but things have changed a lot since then. Don't get me wrong everyone seems to spend a little more then they have myself included, but be smart. If you are smart enough to graduate college then you are smart enough what you are doing. Maybe its all these new "helicopter" parents that don't let their kids learn for themselves and do everything for them, then it's too late and people end up here complaining about their debt. Let's hear it!!


I stopped reading the series two weeks ago. I thought that the girl that was featured the first week was acting pretty stupidly. She was $100,000+ in debt with student loans, and she had the choice of living on the beach in CA or North Dakota and still make pretty much the same salary. She chose the beach, even though the COH was much higher, and was upset that she didn't have time to go to the beach since she had to work all of the time. I couldn't find much sympathy for her.

I know that there's another thread about this somewhere, but I didn't read it.

[SunDevil]

I do know people who were able to take time off to travel, "do Europe," etc. But I don't know that I know of anybody who did it on their own dime (or borrowed money). Everyone I knew who did something like that did it as a gift from well-off families.

I'm off to someplace warm next month on the government's dime. That is the way to do it. I knew there was a reason I pay my taxes.

I'll 'do Europe' on my own savings in a few years once I can take a break from working for 4 months in the summer time. But yeah, the 21 year old college student that doesn't have a job isn't going to be able to travel the world without racking up debt or help from family.

[yankeeyosh]

Well, this goes to show how MBA's (or any other master's degree) are becoming more and more devalued these days....I don't know how much this guy is making, but as one poster says, if you are as freespending as this, I'd be afraid to award this person an MBA.

I still think this is a freespending generation, although there are also signs that there is a large portion that are considered as supersavers...probably to a lesser degree. I would prefer the supersaving over the freespending...even though it may be an issue if we hit an economic downturn, since the American Consumer and its "shop till they drop" mentality was the one major thing that prevented the last mini-recession to turn into something worse.

[jrwilheim]

I'm sorry but does anyone feel sorry for Tolu and his credit debt problem? Anyone smart enough to get his MBA ought to be smart enough to understand that putting $35,000 on a credit card to travel the world will eventually have to be paid back. Who wouldn't want to travel the world over 2 years on credit and not pay for it right away... That's fine but don't whine about having to pay it back, especially when you have a job that pays over $100,000.

Why usatoday even did a story on this guy is beyond me. I had about $20,000 in college debt 12 years ago and he has $25,000 now?? Big Deal!!

Seems to me like a lot of young people who are in debt other than college loans is becsuse they want everything now. Instead of driving a 10+ year old clunker while in college and cheap clothes, they drive new leased cars and SUVs, wear Polo and other designer clothes, wear expensive jewelry...Do I need to go on??

I won't say how it was back "in my day" i'm only only 34 but things have changed a lot since then. Don't get me wrong everyone seems to spend a little more then they have myself included, but be smart. If you are smart enough to graduate college then you are smart enough what you are doing. Maybe its all these new "helicopter" parents that don't let their kids learn for themselves and do everything for them, then it's too late and people end up here complaining about their debt. Let's hear it!!

Who is Tolu? I haven't read this story.

[Chameleon]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/credit/2006-12-11-young-debt-tolu_x.htm

[yankeeyosh]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/credit/2006-12-11-young-debt-tolu_x.htm

There are some interesting generational things in there, although I disagree with the dates.

[redav]

It's sad to say, I've known & worked with MBAs, and Tolu fits right in with the rest of them.

Here's one that floored me:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15565824/site/newsweek/

Here's a quote:

"I stared at the [W-4], trying to figure out how many allowances to claim—or what an allowance was, for that matter. I didn't want to admit that I was stumped, so finally I just took a guess.
"Later I asked my friends to shed some light on the matter, but none of them knew any more than I did. Instead, they advised me to do what they did: make it up and hope for the best. So much for being a well-educated college graduate."

The W-4 has instructions--it tells you what to do. If a college education teaches you how to learn (the essay says "think"), it failed her (and her friends) because she couldn't "learn" how to fill out her tax forms. Later in the essay she says that universities should do more to teach people usefull skills, like personal finance. (I agree, but they need to be taught in HS.)

I got the impression from this essay that the author never learned how to learn on her own. Do we expect schools to teach us about IRAs, W-4s, and renting apartments? Are we really that lazy?

[cache]

It's sad to say, I've known & worked with MBAs, and Tolu fits right in with the rest of them.

Here's one that floored me:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15565824/site/newsweek/

Here's a quote:

"I stared at the [W-4], trying to figure out how many allowances to claim—or what an allowance was, for that matter. I didn't want to admit that I was stumped, so finally I just took a guess.
"Later I asked my friends to shed some light on the matter, but none of them knew any more than I did. Instead, they advised me to do what they did: make it up and hope for the best. So much for being a well-educated college graduate."

The W-4 has instructions--it tells you what to do. If a college education teaches you how to learn (the essay says "think"), it failed her (and her friends) because she couldn't "learn" how to fill out her tax forms. Later in the essay she says that universities should do more to teach people usefull skills, like personal finance. (I agree, but they need to be taught in HS.)

I got the impression from this essay that the author never learned how to learn on her own. Do we expect schools to teach us about IRAs, W-4s, and renting apartments? Are we really that lazy?

This reminds me of that commercial I think for FedEx, where the woman asks the guy to ship an envelope, and the guy says "I have a MBA." and the woman says something like "oh, then let me explain it to you.":D

[CTGirl]

This reminds me of that commercial I think for FedEx, where the woman asks the guy to ship an envelope, and the guy says "I have a MBA." and the woman says something like "oh, then let me explain it to you.":D

Oh yeah, I LOVED that commercial, cuz it's so true sometimes! :p

(not always though, there are many intelligent people with MBAs as well, such as my father :) )

[redav]

This reminds me of that commercial I think for FedEx, where the woman asks the guy to ship an envelope, and the guy says "I have a MBA." and the woman says something like "oh, then let me explain it to you.":D

Yes. YES! I forgot about that commercial. That's just what MBAs are like!

[cache]

(not always though, there are many intelligent people with MBAs as well, such as my father :) )

Nice plug.

[CTGirl]

Nice plug.

Mostly I just wanted to make sure that people with MBAs werent gonna start launching an attack on me cuz I called some of them stupid, so I put that disclaimer in there. :p

[sundaycomics]

"I stared at the [W-4], trying to figure out how many allowances to claim—or what an allowance was, for that matter. I didn't want to admit that I was stumped, so finally I just took a guess.
"Later I asked my friends to shed some light on the matter, but none of them knew any more than I did. Instead, they advised me to do what they did: make it up and hope for the best. So much for being a well-educated college graduate."



Another recent college grad wrote a letter to the editor about this essay that I unfortunately couldn't find.

But basically, the letter writer said that some college grads don't know how to survive in the real world because they have silver spoons in their mouths. When others graduate college, they do know how to survive because they have had jobs and had to take care of adult things on their own.

Amen brother.

[AshleyJordan]

But basically, the letter writer said that some college grads don't know how to survive in the real world because they have silver spoons in their mouths. When others graduate college, they do know how to survive because they have had jobs and had to take care of adult things on their own.

Amen brother.

Can't say I disagree. . . interestingly, I worked full-time for half of undergrad and all of grad school. I paid my own way-- no silver spoon in my mouth. . . BUT

Almost from the age of 18, I still didn't have to learn a lot of the "practical" stuff like Fedexing packages or doing laundry because stuff like that was always done for me. I think it's a class/race thing, and it's really pronounced here in NYC. Even though I'm certainly not at the top of the food chain, (I am far below Area Median Income, and will be for quite a while,) there have always been 'support' staff-- either at my job (admins and mailroom clerks) or in my neighborhood (read: cheap labor at laundromats, restaurants, and cleaning agencies) to do my dirty work.

It's also funny because the higher ups at my job have made it abundantly clear that they do not want me to even think about some of the more mundane tasks my job requires, beyond asking someone else to do them for me.

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with this state of affairs, just highlighting the division(s) or labor in my own personal experience.

[LaFille]

i spent last year living and traveling in france with a job that paid most of my rent and bills, so i have no sympathy for people who go into deep debt from traveling and then whine about it. sure, i came back broke and with some credit card debt, but i'm not complaining because i had a great experience, and after a few months of making sacrifices i'll have it all paid off.

i do think a lot of people 'in my generation' (whatever that means) do overspend (just like the rest of society.) but i'm also sick of being automatically grouped in with those people simply because i'm young. i work two jobs and spend no money on myself beyond the basics, but somehow since i'm young and owe money, i'm 'irresponsible.'

[LaFille]

... oh my gosh, i just read that article. what a jerk. i love how he 'had' to spend 10k at ikea for his first apartment. :eek:

[AshleyJordan]

$10k at Ikea would buy waaaaaaaay too much stuff! It wouldn't even fit in my one bedroom apartment!

[redav]

Almost from the age of 18, I still didn't have to learn a lot of the "practical" stuff like Fedexing packages or doing laundry because stuff like that was always done for me. I think it's a class/race thing, and it's really pronounced here in NYC. Even though I'm certainly not at the top of the food chain, (I am far below Area Median Income, and will be for quite a while,) there have always been 'support' staff-- either at my job (admins and mailroom clerks) or in my neighborhood (read: cheap labor at laundromats, restaurants, and cleaning agencies) to do my dirty work.


This is really interesting. Could you elaborate? Since I'm not familiar with NYC, how do you perceive that it is different there than elsewhere? Also out of curiosity, what sort of costs are associated with this cheap labor? Since you mentioned race, there is a common rally cry about the illegal immigration issue--it is: "If you send us away, who will mow your yard, watch your kids, and clean your house?" Is this the type of thing you're referring to?

[AshleyJordan]

This is really interesting. Could you elaborate? Since I'm not familiar with NYC, how do you perceive that it is different there than elsewhere? Also out of curiosity, what sort of costs are associated with this cheap labor? Since you mentioned race, there is a common rally cry about the illegal immigration issue--it is: "If you send us away, who will mow your yard, watch your kids, and clean your house?" Is this the type of thing you're referring to?

House cleaning, take out food, grocery delivery, personal maintenence (manicures, pedicures, other girly procedures,) child care for those with kids, messengers to send work-related documents, etc. Certainly, it's diffferent than where I grew up (Maine,) where no one would pay for most of those services.
Obviously, I'm not a consumer of all of the aformentioned services! At least in my case, with laundry and housecleaning, the costs are considerably less than I make (broken down per hour,) so a quick cost-benefit analysis makes it worth it, financially-- it's time I can spend on work or my personal life. Certainly relates to the illegal immigration debate, and in my case, a little complicated because a lot of the women who do this work for me are of the same ethnic background, so there can be a little tension that I'm younger and paying them to provide these services.

[NewMrs.]

This is really interesting. Could you elaborate? Since I'm not familiar with NYC, how do you perceive that it is different there than elsewhere? Also out of curiosity, what sort of costs are associated with this cheap labor? Since you mentioned race, there is a common rally cry about the illegal immigration issue--it is: "If you send us away, who will mow your yard, watch your kids, and clean your house?" Is this the type of thing you're referring to?

I'm not sure if that's really what she meant in her post.

She mentioned that even though she worked through college in grad school, she still wasn't familiar with alot of mundane tasks. I could say the same thing about myself.

For instance, I have not mowed a lawn since I moved out of my parents' house years ago. When I lived on my own in my apartment, the building management took care of that. When I moved in with my husband, we as homeowners are responsible for this, obviously. However, my husband has a high school friend who lives a block away and who owns his own lawn care business. My husband pays the high school friend to mow the lawn and do other yard maintenance for us. Sure, we could do it ourselves, but by hiring someone else to do it we get to spend more time with each other and his friend gets more business. Plus, the friend owns alot of equipment that enables him to do the job alot quicker.

Also, I worked part-time jobs starting at the age of 17/18 up until I graduated from college and eventually found a full-time job. I'm guessing that I've had a total of ten jobs, and at every single one of those jobs I have had to fill out a W-4. I still have to stop and think before I can complete a W-4 correctly, even though the directions are at the top. I think that I get confused because my dad used to claim less exemptions than he was eligible to claim so that he could get really big tax returns each year. I know that this is not financially smart, but that's how he told me to do it. So now I get confused whenever I do a new W-4.

[wordsmith]

... oh my gosh, i just read that article. what a jerk. i love how he 'had' to spend 10k at ikea for his first apartment. :eek:

No shit. I'm still racking my brain trying to figure out how it is, exactly, that I've managed to live without ten grand of IKEA shit surrounding me for the past seven years I've had my own place to outfit.

Personally, I work a professional job where I do all the mundane stuff that others might have assistants that handle. It varies place to place and doesn't have much to do with your income or your level of education. In my case, I work at a small workplace, so we all are jacks of all trades.