Your friendly hotel housekeeper reminds you. . . .

[PenforPrez]

Always tip in a hotel. :) It really makes the day of a housekeeper to get a tip. Especially a big one. Especially several big ones.

I had really rough days yesterday and today. But I collected an impressive total of $23 in tips total for both days. Really made me feel better. :)

Paul

[nikorock28]

Ah, I never even thought about tipping in a hotel. Now I will consider it =)

[canela]

I almost always tip the housekeeper... even if I've been there a few days and really not needed housekeeping at all - I know at the end even though I'm a pretty neat person, the work piles up when I don't let them in the room :p

[PenforPrez]

I almost always tip the housekeeper... even if I've been there a few days and really not needed housekeeping at all - I know at the end even though I'm a pretty neat person, the work piles up when I don't let them in the room :p

God bless you! :)

[spiritedaway]

That's nice. :)

To be honest...I don't usually tip in hotels unless I ask for something (i.e. if I leave a note for extra shampoo or if the housekeeper is quick to notice/replenish supplies), or unless I stay at a place for a while (instead of a 1-2 night stay). I always tip for those. I see tipping as a thank you for the extra or good service. Otherwise, I kind of see an nice, clean room (standard) to be included in the cost of my hotel stay (and those costs aren't always cheap either).

EDIT: I will say that I am a neat person so my rooms never get too messy.

[old_school_soul]

Um when I was in Jamaica with my buddies, I know we left the room messy. Same for Vegas. We tipped at least $20 for each room.

[red]

i always tip. but then again, in new york you just tip for everything.

[SmilesSoSweet]

I almost always tip the housekeeper... even if I've been there a few days and really not needed housekeeping at all - I know at the end even though I'm a pretty neat person, the work piles up when I don't let them in the room :p

Same here. I think also that I make money at what I do, I realize that I need to tip whenever I can.

The last time I was in Vegas, my cousins and I TRASHED our rooms everyday, but the next morning, even though we knew housekeeping would clean, we still cleaned up all our trash and picked up things that normally housekeeping would do (confetti, cups, bottles, tissues, ANYTHING). That's just way too inconsiderate to leave such a messy room.

Of course we still left a tip in each room when we checked out.

[canela]

we still cleaned up all our trash and picked up things that normally housekeeping would do (confetti, cups, bottles, tissues, ANYTHING). That's just way too inconsiderate to leave such a messy room.

Of course we still left a tip in each room when we checked out.

Yup, that's me in a nutshell as well. I used to stay in hotels a lot more when I was driving a truck for a living since the nature of the business is travel... if my equipment was down I was always placed in a hotel, or paid for one out of pocket. Even then, I'd always pick my room up and place everything in the garbage... I hate the idea of someone else having to clean up my mess, it's just not how I was raised ;): Basically what I left for the housekeeper was making the bed since I suck at it majorly, and emptying the trash.

About the only time I wouldn't tip was in a horribly seedy motel where I wasn't honestly even sure if they *had* a housekeeping staff

[Syracuse]

I was staying in a holiday inn the last few days, and didn't tip, I never realized you did that in hotels. Maybe if you are the bellboy and you stand there and cough expecting a tip (I only have seen that in movies).

[yankeeyosh]

I usually tip about $2 a day...if it's a really nice hotel (which I can't afford but maybe I get when a company pays for it on an interview), I give $5 a day.

[Ciderhillnh]

I always tip when I stay at a hotel. I also make sure to make it easy for housekeeping to clean up after me. I fold the used towels and put them on the side of the bath (not all over the room) all trash is in the trashcan, etc.

Also.....I recently learned (due to knowing the hotel staff at this place we always stay when we visit my G-ma in Bermuda) if you are there several days, you have to tip EACH day to make sure the person who cleaned the room gets the tip.
If you leave a tip at the end of your stay, then the person who cleans it THAT day gets the entire tip.

[WorkInProgress]

So, I usually leave a tip (and I always do when I've stayed longer than just one overnight, or if I've asked for something in particular), but I've never actually been sure what the "normal" rate would be. Also (and I'm not complaining, simply explaining) I don't really understand why tipping is a standard, as it seems like regular housekeeping ought to be paid by the hotel, and not in tips.

Also, we never stayed in hotels when I was growing up (motels were it, if we were staying overnight on a road trip) and I don't think my parents ever knew to leave a tip for housekeeping. I certainly didn't know until I got to college.

[PenforPrez]

I was staying in a holiday inn the last few days, and didn't tip, I never realized you did that in hotels. Maybe if you are the bellboy and you stand there and cough expecting a tip (I only have seen that in movies).

*cough cough* :)

[tina1979]

I've tipped in hotels that go above and beyond with keeping my room clean while I am there and I've not tipped at all when they have done nothing. Just depends.

But along the same lines.... (gonna threadjack :) ) don't forget to tip your friendly tow truck driver, especially when you drag him out of his nice warm bed at midnight or later. ( I say this because I am dating one and I know how bad it sucks to hear that stupid radio go off when I am in a deep sleep)

[WorkInProgress]

But along the same lines.... (gonna threadjack :) ) don't forget to tip your friendly tow truck driver, especially when you drag him out of his nice warm bed at midnight or later. ( I say this because I am dating one and I know how bad it sucks to hear that stupid radio go off when I am in a deep sleep)

They get tipped too? I didn't know that.

[EmberMae]

I see tipping as a thank you for the extra or good service. Otherwise, I kind of see an nice, clean room (standard) to be included in the cost of my hotel stay (and those costs aren't always cheap either).

Same here. It never really occured to me to tip the housekeeping at a hotel. I guess that makes me a bad person, but I really just wish places would pay a fair wage instead of leaving it up to the consumer to tip for a service that is supposed to be included in the high price they're already paying. I always thought a tip was supposed to be for something extra, it makes me really confused when you're supposed to tip someone for just doing their job. Are you supposed to tip the cashier at the grocery store too?

[tina1979]

They get tipped too? I didn't know that.
I don't know if its a typical thing or not, but I do know that it smoothes over the ruffled feathers when someone slips him $5, $10+ after dragging him out of bed. And it helps to make his day when someone does it just because they think he's done a good job. with thier car.

[Syracuse]

I don't know if its a typical thing or not, but I do know that it smoothes over the ruffled feathers when someone slips him $5, $10+ after dragging him out of bed. And it helps to make his day when someone does it just because they think he's done a good job. with thier car.
I didn't realize that they have to get out of bed, I just assumed that they have people working set hours, and some guys work at night towing trucks and some during the day. I'll keep that in mind next time my car breaks down at night, not that it ever has yet.

[tina1979]

I didn't realize that they have to get out of bed, I just assumed that they have people working set hours, and some guys work at night towing trucks and some during the day. I'll keep that in mind next time my car breaks down at night, not that it ever has yet.
Its possible some companies do it that way, but his company has 3 drivers. All work during the day. One of them gets off at 4/5 , one works primary driver after 4 and one works back-up in case it gets busy. (So every third night you get off) Then Friday/Saturday/ Sunday is considered the weekend. They rotate the weekends the same way. Everyone works Friday during the day, but the primary driver that night is the primary driver all weekend. (the back up driver is also the back up all weekend)

So if your car breaks down after you have been out partying all night, chances are that the guy/girl who tows you got called out of bed to come get you.

[red]

Same here. It never really occured to me to tip the housekeeping at a hotel. I guess that makes me a bad person, but I really just wish places would pay a fair wage instead of leaving it up to the consumer to tip for a service that is supposed to be included in the high price they're already paying. I always thought a tip was supposed to be for something extra, it makes me really confused when you're supposed to tip someone for just doing their job. Are you supposed to tip the cashier at the grocery store too?

"places" just usually pay minimum wage, and if you think minimum wage is too low (which it is and i agree) then you should get involved with living wage initiatives. but the way i see it, if you have enough money to go on vacation and stay in a hotel (which is a luxury), why don't you have $5 to leave the cleaner at the end of the weekend? or if you have the money to eat out in a restaurant, take a cab, order a pizza to be delivered, etc. these things are all luxuries and you have the option of not partaking and thus not tipping.

[Syracuse]

"places" just usually pay minimum wage, and if you think minimum wage is too low (which it is and i agree) then you should get involved with living wage initiatives. but the way i see it, if you have enough money to go on vacation and stay in a hotel (which is a luxury), why don't you have $5 to leave the cleaner at the end of the weekend? or if you have the money to eat out in a restaurant, take a cab, order a pizza to be delivered, etc. these things are all luxuries and you have the option of not partaking and thus not tipping.
With me I really don't have the money to be staying at a hotel (128 a night!). But my job sent me, hey I'll go if you want to pay for me to do it with per diem. If I order a pizza it is personal though and I would give a tip.

[red]

oh come on, it's 5 bucks. if you have the money to host a wine and cheese party, you have 5 bucks.

[canela]

Its possible some companies do it that way, but his company has 3 drivers. All work during the day. One of them gets off at 4/5 , one works primary driver after 4 and one works back-up in case it gets busy. (So every third night you get off) Then Friday/Saturday/ Sunday is considered the weekend. They rotate the weekends the same way. Everyone works Friday during the day, but the primary driver that night is the primary driver all weekend. (the back up driver is also the back up all weekend)

So if your car breaks down after you have been out partying all night, chances are that the guy/girl who tows you got called out of bed to come get you.

Most tow drivers that I've known are "on call" with a cell phone or a beeper for those late night runs. I've had my fair share of rescues with the big truck before, and a good mechanic/tow driver is worth gold when you're stuck on the side of some desolate highway! I don't make it a point to tip all the time, since they are usually paid quite well, but if the driver is particularly friendly/helpful or does something above and beyond the call of duty, I most definitely tip well.

[tina1979]

Most tow drivers that I've known are "on call" with a cell phone or a beeper for those late night runs. I've had my fair share of rescues with the big truck before, and a good mechanic/tow driver is worth gold when you're stuck on the side of some desolate highway! I don't make it a point to tip all the time, since they are usually paid quite well, but if the driver is particularly friendly/helpful or does something above and beyond the call of duty, I most definitely tip well.
the company he works for pays 30% of each tow they do. He doesn mainly AAA calls so you can imagine how many tows he has to do in a day to make any money. he needs to hook up with a company that does more private calls. they get paid more commission that way.

You are right though. They are worth thier weight in gold when you are stuck on a dark road somewhere. Whern they work primary they are "on call".

[EmberMae]

"places" just usually pay minimum wage, and if you think minimum wage is too low (which it is and i agree) then you should get involved with living wage initiatives. but the way i see it, if you have enough money to go on vacation and stay in a hotel (which is a luxury), why don't you have $5 to leave the cleaner at the end of the weekend? or if you have the money to eat out in a restaurant, take a cab, order a pizza to be delivered, etc. these things are all luxuries and you have the option of not partaking and thus not tipping.
Retail pays the minimum wage or not much above it. So does fast food. Should I be tipping them? When does it end? and if the typical budget hotel charges $100a night and it doesn't even include housekeeping service, what the hell DOES it include? I just think the charges should be up front. then I know how to budget it. It causes me so much confusion and frustration trying to figure out when to tip and how much to tip, when really the whole idea of a tip was to give someone a reward for going above and beyond, not to pay them for a service that is supposedly included in the initial charge, but I guess not REALLY included because if you don't pay extra then you are a rude cheapskate. I want people to get a fair wage, but I just think that the basic service should be included as part of the purchase price and if they do something amazing then you can give them extra. If Pizza Hut charges me a $2 delivery charge, why should I have to tip the pizza guy for doing exactly that? What on earth is the $2 for if it's not paying for the service of having my pizza delivered?

[Syracuse]

Retail pays the minimum wage or not much above it. So does fast food. Should I be tipping them? When does it end? and if the typical budget hotel charges $100a night and it doesn't even include housekeeping service, what the hell DOES it include? I just think the charges should be up front. then I know how to budget it. It causes me so much confusion and frustration trying to figure out when to tip and how much to tip, when really the whole idea of a tip was to give someone a reward for going above and beyond, not to pay them for a service that is supposedly included in the initial charge, but I guess not REALLY included because if you don't pay extra then you are a rude cheapskate. I want people to get a fair wage, but I just think that the basic service should be included as part of the purchase price and if they do something amazing then you can give them extra. If Pizza Hut charges me a $2 delivery charge, why should I have to tip the pizza guy for doing exactly that? What on earth is the $2 for if it's not paying for the service of having my pizza delivered?
Is your last name Pink by any chance?

[SmilesSoSweet]

I just think the charges should be up front. then I know how to budget it.

That's how it's done in Italy, at least when I was there. All tips were included with the bill for meals. I'm not sure about hotels though.

But we still left tips anyway (it was much cheaper at the time) because our bill was really cheap.

I do remember getting my hair cut there at a nice salon. Tip was included in the price. The hair stylist was local, but he married an American who a few years before I was there, he met while she was studying abroad.

So since the guy did an excellent job, I still gave him a tip.

I also tend to tip higher (more like 20% instead of 15%) nowadays because I do make a decent salary.

[red]

Pizza hut probably keeps that $2.

honestly, if you can't afford to tip the pizza guy or it's too confusing, you can just cook for yourself.

[WorkInProgress]

Pizza hut probably keeps that $2.

honestly, if you can't afford to tip the pizza guy or it's too confusing, you can just cook for yourself.

Yeah, I don't think that's what the poster was talking about, actually. More of a "why should it be a requirement if I'm already paying for x and y." If the answer is "because you can afford to" that's what's good to know.

[analogman]

I tip every day I stay in a hotel room (because the housekeeper might change during the trip). I thought that was just how things worked (i.e. it's expected like at a restaurant). I also write a note with "thank you" on it so the housekeeper knows the money is for him/her.

[tina1979]

I also write a note with "thank you" on it so the housekeeper knows the money is for him/her.
My dad did that. We stayed in a hotel (4adults, 1 child) and I promise the room could not stay clean, but everytime we came back from whatever we were doing the beds were made, the blankets turned down and the room was put back together. My dad left a thank you note and a $10-$15 tip when we left.

[red]

Yeah, I don't think that's what the poster was talking about, actually. More of a "why should it be a requirement if I'm already paying for x and y." If the answer is "because you can afford to" that's what's good to know.

well, i did explain that ordering out and staying in a hotel is a luxury. so a tip is sort of a luxury charge. that's why you have to pay. because you can afford to. i mean, why do i have to pay taxes? because i can afford to and that's the way our society works.

[meatwad]

well, i did explain that ordering out and staying in a hotel is a luxury. so a tip is sort of a luxury charge. that's why you have to pay. because you can afford to. i mean, why do i have to pay taxes? because i can afford to and that's the way our society works.

You have to pay taxes because it's the law and you'll be arrested if you get caught not doing it.

[Syracuse]

You have to pay taxes because it's the law and you'll be arrested if you get caught not doing it.
Yeah and how is it a luxury? If I knew someone in the city I visit I'd stay with them at their house, but if I don't a hotel is the only option. And it's not like we're talking about staying at a Hilton. Just Holliday Inn is pretty expensive itself. Why don't we tip the janitors every day at the buildings where we work, they do the same thing and probably get paid the same. How are hotel housecleaners special?

[tina1979]

You have to pay taxes because it's the law and you'll be arrested if you get caught not doing it.
LOL!!! thats so true!

[red]

but why is it the law?

[red]

Yeah and how is it a luxury? If I knew someone in the city I visit I'd stay with them at their house, but if I don't a hotel is the only option. And it's not like we're talking about staying at a Hilton. Just Holliday Inn is pretty expensive itself. Why don't we tip the janitors every day at the buildings where we work, they do the same thing and probably get paid the same. How are hotel housecleaners special?

news flash! some people can never afford to travel or stay in hotels! if you are able to stay in a "Holliday Inn" then you are better off than a lot of people. my husband never stayed in a hotel until after he graduated from college.

many janitors are union. but even so, i tip the people who work in my apartment building during the holidays- the janitors and the doormen. i see them every day so i give them a nice tip once a year.

[capella]

I never tip in a hotel. Never. I tip in a restaurant and my hair cutter. That's it. It's my money, I work my buns off for it, and I'll do what I damn well please. I've worked shit jobs before too and you know what? That's your job. If you don't like it then get another one. I want people to make a fair amount for the work they are doing, but I am not going to subsidize the corporation's shitty pay scale. Not happening.

Tipping outside of a restaurant and hair cut is reserved for above and beyond service... they really went out of their way. I rarely find that the service is so friggin' fantastic that I should leave a tip. Restaurant servers better do a good job to get the tip as well. I've NOT tipped for really crappy service. I was a server in college so there's no excuse for rudeness. I'm an easy customer. I pick up after myself. I'm considerate of my surroundings. That's all I feel obligated to do.

[meatwad]

but why is it the law?

Because if it wasn't, nobody would pay them and the country would fall apart. But you're not going to get arrested if you don't tip. You're just going to have some pretty angry people. But tipping is starting to get out of hand. When I walk into Subway and tell the girl what sandwhich I want, why the hell should I pay her extra for that? I don't pay the guy at BK a dollar because he didn't put mayo on my burger.

[WorkInProgress]

Because if it wasn't, nobody would pay them

Heh. You just made my rainy, dreary afternoon.

[meatwad]

Heh. You just made my rainy, dreary afternoon.

Well it's true!

[red]

I never tip in a hotel. Never. I tip in a restaurant and my hair cutter. That's it. It's my money, I work my buns off for it, and I'll do what I damn well please. I've worked shit jobs before too and you know what? That's your job. If you don't like it then get another one. I want people to make a fair amount for the work they are doing, but I am not going to subsidize the corporation's shitty pay scale. Not happening.


for some people, it's not that easy to get a better job. i mean, what if you don't speak english very well, don't read, have not had formal schooling, have mental health issues, are disabled, etc.

honestly, i guess i am just surprised that other people in low-paying professions aren't more sympathetic. but hey, it's your karma.

[Syracuse]

news flash! some people can never afford to travel or stay in hotels! if you are able to stay in a "Holliday Inn" then you are better off than a lot of people. my husband never stayed in a hotel until after he graduated from college.

many janitors are union. but even so, i tip the people who work in my apartment building during the holidays- the janitors and the doormen. i see them every day so i give them a nice tip once a year.
I'm out of college too, and still can't pay for a hotel, if my job wasn't telling me I had to go and they weren't paying for me to do it I wouldn't. I think hotels are huge gips, I used to sleep in my car when I drove somewhere to see a concert.

[capella]

for some people, it's not that easy to get a better job. i mean, what if you don't speak english very well, don't read, have not had formal schooling, have mental health issues, are disabled, etc.

honestly, i guess i am just surprised that other people in low-paying professions aren't more sympathetic. but hey, it's your karma.
This has nothing to do with karma. I won't be guilted into paying for services that I've already paid for. I pay my hotel bill... I expect it to be clean and the sheets changed. That's what I'm paying for. I pay the "luxury" tax when I am charged extra fees and taxes for the hotel. I'm not going to tip someone for doing their job.

I understand that other people have issues in getting a better job, but that doesn't mean I need to subsidize it out of my own pocket. I've been there and nobody gave me tips. I figured out a way to make my life better. I didn't make their life that way and I shouldn't have to fix it. I pay my taxes and I do my part for society. I pay for enough stuff out of pocket when I should not have to in my profession. And having a shit job should be a temporary problem. I don't give homeless people my money on the street either, should I feel bad about that too? :rolleyes:

[redav]

I pay for enough stuff out of pocket when I should not have to in my profession.
This is a very good point. Exactly WHY do we not tip our kids' teachers? And I'm not talking about some crappy gift for Christmas. They're providing a service (a very important one, too). They don't get paid squat.

The only reason I see for the machination of tipping is to provide a motivation for workers to provide above-expected performance, hence waitstaff & barbers. If I had a neighborhood kid cut my yard, I would pay him extra for doing a great job. But I don't see it for delivery guys (including the postman), janitors, etc.

[spiritedaway]

I totally agree with you, Amy. It almost seems like we're see as bad people just because we don't tip. I've said it before and I'll say it again, but I only tip for extra or extremely good services and/or those professions that depends on tips (i.e servers, waiters/waitresses). A clean hotel room, IMHO, is covered in the hotel bill. Otherwise, what the hell am I paying for?

This has got nothing to do with karma. I did a service oriented job all throughout high school, and was professional and cordial and was often complimented, but why I be tipped for doing what's in my job description. It's my job. I'm sure I would be happy to be tipped, of course, but it should never be an expectation.

If someone wants to tip, good for him/her. Tipping is not an obligation, I tip well for good services. And I don't feel obligated to tip just to subsidize for the shitty wages that corporations choose to pay their employee. I started at a minimum paying job, so it's not like I don't know what that's like.

It also seems like some people see other people who can travel should pay more because it is a "luxury". Yes, I guess it can be, but how many of us travel all the time? And how often is it a budgeted trip? And how many of us actually work our butts off to save just so we can take a trip (no better or worse than someone who choose to spend their money in other ways to relax when they can take a break from work?) I contribute to society to other ways; but even if I don't, what I choose to do with my money is still my own business.

If a corporation is not paying fair wages, why should we get blamed for it or be expected to subsidize for it?

IMHO, tipping is out of control. In the malls, there are tip jars for cashiers? :rolleyes:

This has nothing to do with karma. I won't be guilted into paying for services that I've already paid for. I pay my hotel bill... I expect it to be clean and the sheets changed. That's what I'm paying for. I pay the "luxury" tax when I am charged extra fees and taxes for the hotel. I'm not going to tip someone for doing their job.

I understand that other people have issues in getting a better job, but that doesn't mean I need to subsidize it out of my own pocket. I've been there and nobody gave me tips. I figured out a way to make my life better. I didn't make their life that way and I shouldn't have to fix it. I pay my taxes and I do my part for society. I pay for enough stuff out of pocket when I should not have to in my profession. And having a shit job should be a temporary problem. I don't give homeless people my money on the street either, should I feel bad about that too? :rolleyes:

[capella]

This is a very good point. Exactly WHY do we not tip our kids' teachers? And I'm not talking about some crappy gift for Christmas. They're providing a service (a very important one, too). They don't get paid squat.

I wouldn't accept a tip because it would be academically dishonest. What are they tipping for? A good grade? Teachers aren't service workers in that sense. I agree that we do an important job, but there's no need for a tip. If people would just send their kids to school clothed, fed, read to, and loved that would be the best thing EVER. If people would just be a parent and not send disrespectful little snots into my class and then defend said snots when I have to call home about it... that would make everything so much better. For everyone. Oh, and don't bitch about taxes for schools when you're always telling me how you couldn't do my job and I am sooooo appreciated. That would be fantastic. ;)

[red]

This has got nothing to do with karma. I did a service oriented job all throughout high school, and was professional and cordial and was often complimented, but why I be tipped for doing what's in my job description. It's my job. I'm sure I would be happy to be tipped, of course, but it should never be an expectation.

It also seems like some people see other people who can travel should pay more because it is a "luxury". Yes, I guess it can be, but how many of us travel all the time? And how often is it a budgeted trip? And how many of us actually work our butts off to save just so we can take a trip (no better or worse than someone who choose to spend their money in other ways to relax when they can take a break from work?) I contribute to society to other ways; but even if I don't, what I choose to do with my money is still my own business.


i'm not saying you travel all of the time. i am saying, the fact that someone is able to travel AT ALL, puts them ahead of a lot of people in this country and in the world. maybe you don't know those people, maybe they aren't your family or friends, but they are out there. the working poor. i have done a lot of reading on this subject and i recommend THE WORKING POOR by David Shipler or NICKEL AND DIMED by Barbara Ehrenreich if you are interested in learning more.

the fact that you did a service job IN HIGH SCHOOL is exactly my point. that is not like feeding your kids on a service job, and whether it is right or wrong, some people in our society are trying to feed their kids on minimum wage. you don't think they "work their butts off" too?

my point is, how do you know that will never be you? Winney has posted in the past about people she's worked with who have brain injuries- that can happen to anyone. what happens if you get convicted of a crime (even wrongfully!) and go to jail? you think you'll ever get a good job again after that? or if you become disabled- my grandmother was a double amputee. one day she had legs and then she didn't. my mother in law was one of 14 kids and was sold at age 13 to an american family. she went off to work for them as a maid. she never went to school. spanish is her second language- she speaks an amerindian language. english is number three. she is in her late 60's and works at a day care center. i mean seriously, how do you get a better job when you don't even have a primary school education?

i just think and reflect sometimes how very lucky we are and that's why i leave a good tip. it's not that a tip is expected, but i do it because i realize how privileged we are. if you don't want to, then that's your karma.

i'm not going to even get into the teacher issue- it's a separate issue and i'm the kid of two teachers, so i know all about people complaining about taxes, sending their kids to school hungry, etc. i'm just surprised that people in other low-wage professions don't feel more solidarity with people in even lower wage jobs.

[red]

I understand that other people have issues in getting a better job, but that doesn't mean I need to subsidize it out of my own pocket. I've been there and nobody gave me tips. I figured out a way to make my life better.

oh, so like loan forgiveness doesn't count as help?

[spiritedaway]

yes, I do considered travelling a privilege and it's something I've always appreciated when I could afford to. Whether I know the "working poor" or not is really not relevant to the point, but let's entertain the thought: I have already read Nickel and dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich, but I don't really need to read it because my family is the working poor. My dad is still working in a service job in his 50s (one that depends on tip). He doesn't speak fluent English and both my parents only went as far as high school. I know what you're talking about (I am probably more familiar with this area than most when it comes to how easy one's life can completely change by the loss of a job, disability or mental illness - first hand). We made lots of compromises, but having been through it, my viewpoint is still what it is.

Let's not personalize this. I'm not saying it's not difficult when you have to struggle, but if I can barely take care of myself, I probably won't have kids. Or if I did and then life decides to throw me a curve, I'll deal with with cards life dealt me. How do I know it'll never be me? I won't. But that still doesn't change things. I've never said that those working poor never worked their butts off, but that doesn't mean those who worked hard as well should subsidize for poor wages. It seems like blame is misplaced.

Privileged, you can call it that, if you want. But karma doesn't make a whole of sense, but you can call it whatever you want. I am happy with my karma. People can choose do whatever they do with their hard-earned money. While I am sure it's nice to get tipped, in the case of hotel upkeep, I firmly believe that it's covered in the price of a hotel stay and will respectfully disagree with you. Being grateful for having opportunities (or what you called privileged) is one thing (and I contribute back in other ways), but just because you're grateful doesn't automatically translate into tipping simply because you have some means. Like I said, above and beyond service, yes, I totally believe in tipping, in the housekeeping. But for standard or not so good service, no.

It's like you're only seeing one side of an issue: if you have the means, you should tip. It's no wonder that money is such a controversial issue: if some middle class people even slightly criticize the welfare issue, then all hell breaks loose. It's like the unions issue. Some are totally pro, some are totally against. There seems to be no middle ground.

But whatever, to each his own.

And let's not get into taxes. There are different tax brackets for different income. Enough said.

[capella]

oh, so like loan forgiveness doesn't count as help?
That is NOT the same thing as tipping a hotel worker and I really don't appreciate the personal jab there. The loan forgiveness program is in place to entice teachers to work in low-income schools for extended periods of time... educating the CHILDREN of those working poor so they have a shot at a decent future. You have to give 5 years working with children who have LOTS of problems and who most often lack a respect for being educated. The 5 grand that I may or may not receive is a pittance for the amount of time, effort, expense and energy that goes into teaching low-income kids. You're comparing apples and radishes. Not even close to being the same. And you only get the loan forgiveness from FEDERAL loans. It's not like they're going to my bank and cutting a check. :rolleyes: My family is the working poor and I grew up that way. I still feel like tipping is a personal choice not an obligation.

[capella]

i'm not going to even get into the teacher issue- it's a separate issue and i'm the kid of two teachers, so i know all about people complaining about taxes, sending their kids to school hungry, etc. i'm just surprised that people in other low-wage professions don't feel more solidarity with people in even lower wage jobs.
No, quite frankly I DON'T feel "solidarity" with other low wage workers. I am a professional, I do a very complex job and I had to have a 4-year degree and training and ongoing education to continue doing my job. I am insulted to be compared to someone who changes sheets for a living.

And no, there isn't any shame in a hard days work, but I'm not about to go comparing what I do to a McDonald's Fry Clerk. It's not even a little bit about feeling sorry for people or even feeling fortunate for what I have. I would rather spend my time, money and energy into inspiring kids to be educated and NOT end up as a Fry Clerk. Where there is a will there is a way. I spent my time scrubbing other people's toilets. I've had my cards dealt and I worked to make my life better. I have earned what I have and I do NOT feel bad for choosing not to tip.

[pisces2473]

Back to Tina's threadjack :D

I ALWAYS tip the AAA guy. Once I had to have him come put on my spare tire and it was almost 100 degrees out. In a black top parking lot with no shade. I gave him $5 and told him to get some water or iced coffee or something. I wasn't sure if it was OK to do, but I mean, come on, this guy could have been in some serious trouble with the heat and sun.

Re: hotel peeps. I rarely ever stay in a hotel longer than one night, so I usually do not tip. Also I am VERY neat and clean. I guess I always considered THAT to be my "tip" to the staff--not to trash the room, put my towels in the bathtub, etc.

In the future, I'll probably be more careful about tipping.

[NewMrs.]

If Pizza Hut charges me a $2 delivery charge, why should I have to tip the pizza guy for doing exactly that? What on earth is the $2 for if it's not paying for the service of having my pizza delivered?


Actually, I read someplace that the delivery charge goes toward the cost of the pizza place's auto insurance. Even if the delivery people are using their own cars, the pizza place has to purchase their own insurance in case their is an accident and the pizza place gets brought into the lawsuit, especially if the driver has insufficient personal insurance limits.

My husband is usually the one who orders and pays for the pizza, and he tips well (alot better than I have, I have to admit). One day we ordered pizza and was told that there would be a 45 minute wait and the pizza came in 20 minutes. The delivery guy told us that he was supposed to make a bunch of other deliveries before ours, but since we had a reputation for being good tippers he came to our house first.

[Kitty]

I always tip the housekeeping in a hotel. The way I see it, if someone is actually cleaning my toilet for me and washing my dirty sheets...they deserve a tip. I get that the hotel is paying them and that it's their job, but that's not the point. It's just a nice, thoughtful thing to do after someone has cleaned up after you.

I don't tip AAA/tow truck though...it never occured to me.

[winneythepooh7]

I was raised to always tip in hotels and restaurants. Even just a dollar or two. In my opinion, it's the classy and respectful thing to do.

I used to waitress as well. We had people come in that looked like really poor people. I had other waitresses I worked with refuse to take the table because they felt they wouldn't get a good tip.

And you know what? Poorer people usually tipped extremely well, or always tipped SOMETHING at least.

I can't say the same for a lot of people that had lotsa money I waited on in the past.

I also am used to living in NY where you tip for mostly everything anyways (cab rides, bartenders, furniture deliveries). I thought it was common knowledge that most people knew this is how most of the people who worked these jobs made any kind of living. But judging from what I've read so far, I guess not............

And again, it's not that easy for people to just "get a better job". :rolleyes:

ETA: Back when I was waitressing, I was paid like $2.90 an hour or something because we were supposed to make the rest of our money off of tips. It's totally different if it's included. Then you shouldn't feel obligated, unless it's exceptional service. I also highly doubt people who work in hotels make much more than minimum wage. And once you leave this country, I am wondering if they even get an hourly wage. It may just be those tips alone........

[sondra_finchley]

Please tip your housekeeper if they did an exceptional service and do please tidy up after yourself if you made an exceptional mess, ESPECIALLY if this was done in Vegas. You only have a certain amount of time to clean each room, and it sucks like you wouldnt believe to open a door to a check-out and see a room just trashed, knowing you have a half hour to turn it. And then get no tip.

I usually tip pretty well- all those years living in Nevada I learned everyone there needs tips too. I dont put money in tip jars though- and I think they are rather ludicrous at say, Starbucks or the stupid little coffee joint that was run by some megaconglomerate food company on my old college campus. It does make me feel good to tip fairly well, but not over the top. I remember how it used to feel when I got tipped for doing a good job, and I would like to make someone elses day that much brighter too (IF they provided me with a good service). You never know, the person you could be tipping may be someone with the same education as you and is having a rough time or is in that situation for some reason or another.

[capella]

And again, it's not that easy for people to just "get a better job". :rolleyes:

I never said it was easy to get another job. However, I don't feel that the guests should have to make up for what the company isn't doing. Should I tip the Walmart check out person? I don't feel obligated or not classy because I don't tip the hotel housekeeper when I go on vacation. I rarely go on vacation anyhow. When I do I'm damn sure going to use my money for my vacation.. not subsidizing the corporation. :rolleyes:

[winneythepooh7]

I never said it was easy to get another job. However, I don't feel that the guests should have to make up for what the company isn't doing. Should I tip the Walmart check out person? I don't feel obligated or not classy because I don't tip the hotel housekeeper when I go on vacation. I rarely go on vacation anyhow. When I do I'm damn sure going to use my money for my vacation.. not subsidizing the corporation. :rolleyes:


OK, you do that then.

[capella]

OK, you do that then.
And you go right ahead and tip. But don't judge those who don't feel obligated. It's not a matter of class. It's a matter of choice.

[winneythepooh7]

And you go right ahead and tip. But don't judge those who don't feel obligated. It's not a matter of class. It's a matter of choice.

Well, the way you keep going on about it, it definitely is a matter of class. Or maybe lack of:rolleyes: .

I never judged you before, but now I guess I have to.

[capella]

Well, the way you keep going on about it, it definitely is a matter of class. Or maybe lack of:rolleyes: .

I never judged you before, but now I am.
Well, I think that is rather harsh and unnecessary but whatever. :rolleyes: Perhaps you're just having a bad day.

[winneythepooh7]

Well, I think that is rather harsh and unnecessary but whatever. :rolleyes: Perhaps you're just having a bad day.

Amy, WTF is your problem? No, I'm not having a bad day. But every day is a bad day for you, apparently. I offered my opinion, which had absolutely nothing to do with you, then you attack me. This is ridiculous. I think you are being harsh and unnecessary, but yeah, whatever.

[capella]

Amy, WTF is your problem? No, I'm not having a bad day. But every day is a bad day for you, apparently. I offered my opinion, which had absolutely nothing to do with you, then you attack me. This is ridiculous. I think you are being harsh and unnecessary, but yeah, whatever.
Where did I attack you!! :eek: I offered my opinion and get a lot of shit and personal attacks for it (NOT by you initally). I don't have a problem and every day is not a bad day for me. Actually things are quite going well for me. But that's not the point is it. WTF is your problem? If you reread the posts you'll see that you attacked me first. I was just stating my opinion on the matter and apparently those of you who feel so strongly about tipping have to make a big to do out of it and have to start making personal attacks/judgements. Whatever. I've never had a problem with you before, or much of anyone for that matter. Excuse the fuck out of me for not agreeing with you.

[winneythepooh7]

Where did I attack you!! :eek: I offered my opinion and get a lot of shit and personal attacks for it (NOT by you initally). I don't have a problem and every day is not a bad day for me. Actually things are quite going well for me. But that's not the point is it. WTF is your problem? If you reread the posts you'll see that you attacked me first. I was just stating my opinion on the matter and apparently those of you who feel so strongly about tipping have to make a big to do out of it and have to start making personal attacks/judgements. Whatever. I've never had a problem with you before, or much of anyone for that matter. Excuse the fuck out of me for not agreeing with you.

Perhaps the reason that you are getting "shit and personal attacks" is because you are CONSTANTLY throwing the teacher card into everything. No one's arguing that it's not a hard job. No one's saying that you aren't specially trained or don't deserve more money. But it's the attitude you have and the way you present yourself..........like further back in the thread about "being compared to someone who changes sheets for a living". It just reads like you are better than certain other people or something because "Gasp! You're a TEACHER!!"

[pisces2473]

Whoa, Ladies. Can we take 5 here?

This is about tips in hotels. Not about who's better than whom, or if the pizza guy should get a tip and how much, etc.

Back to the topic, thank you.

[NewMrs.]

Okay, to change the subject slightly, here's something about which I was wondering:

About once a year, my employer requires me to go to New Jersey to training. I work for a large corporation that has its corporate office in New Jersey, and it is my understanding that the "vendors" (I'm not sure if this is the correct word) my company uses for business travel all get extremely high volumes of business from my employer. Anyway, whenever I get sent to Jersey, I'm explicitly told in my travel instructions not to tip anybody (except if I go out to eat) because this is all included in the corporate rate that my company has set up with the hotel, the transportation provider, etc.

So I was wondering if anybody knows how this works. For instance, if you work in a hotel that caters to employees of corporations that provide a high volume of business, and those corporations instruct their employees not to tip, do you automatically get some kind of bonus in lieu of not receiving a tip? Or is my employee just being cheap and telling us not to tip so that we don't claim the tip on our expense reports?

[Green]

having a room that is cleaned is part of what you pay for to stay in a hotel.

[capella]

Perhaps the reason that you are getting "shit and personal attacks" is because you are CONSTANTLY throwing the teacher card into everything. No one's arguing that it's not a hard job. No one's saying that you aren't specially trained or don't deserve more money. But it's the attitude you have and the way you present yourself..........like further back in the thread about "being compared to someone who changes sheets for a living". It just reads like you are better than certain other people or something because "Gasp! You're a TEACHER!!"
Before this goes back on topic I need to address this. The so-called "teacher card" is not being "thrown." That is a HUGE part of who I am as a person and yes it's going to come up. You discuss your job an awful lot too. What I do was thrown into my face into this thread FIRST (with the loans jab). I offered my opinion, which had nothing to do with being a better PERSON than someone else. But Hell, yes I do think my job is better than the rank of hotel housekeeper. YOU would say the exact same thing if someone tossed that in your face and said because you work in a low-paid profession you should feel so buddy-buddy with other low-wage workers. That is absurd. If the table had been turned I venture to guess you'd be just as ruffled. And it's not as if you don't "throw" the "social worker card" into a lot of stuff either. But I'm sure you felt justified in jabbing at me since you're sitting so nicely in that glass house over there.

[winneythepooh7]

Before this goes back on topic I need to address this. The so-called "teacher card" is not being "thrown." That is a HUGE part of who I am as a person and yes it's going to come up. You discuss your job an awful lot too. What I do was thrown into my face into this thread FIRST (with the loans jab). I offered my opinion, which had nothing to do with being a better PERSON than someone else. But Hell, yes I do think my job is better than the rank of hotel housekeeper. YOU would say the exact same thing if someone tossed that in your face and said because you work in a low-paid profession you should feel so buddy-buddy with other low-wage workers. That is absurd. If the table had been turned I venture to guess you'd be just as ruffled. And it's not as if you don't "throw" the "social worker card" into a lot of stuff either. But I'm sure you felt justified in jabbing at me since you're sitting so nicely in that glass house over there.


Because of what I do for a living, I realize that I am not so far above anyone else that I couldn't end up in the exact same position one day, of having to take a measly paying job as a hotel worker.

I work with people, many who are just like you and I, who one day get into an accident or have a stroke, and only wish they could get out of the house and work a measly hotel job and get tips. Many people I work with work off-the-books jobs or for tips because this is the only way to make extra $$ to survive on with their teeny-tiny SSI check in NYC.

This is the difference between my thinking and your thinking, Amy. I don't fault people for having to work for tips, because I could be in that situation one day myself.

ETA: Because you point out that you've had to do this kind of work I would think you would be a little more understanding of people in this situation.

[winneythepooh7]

Okay, to change the subject slightly, here's something about which I was wondering:

About once a year, my employer requires me to go to New Jersey to training. I work for a large corporation that has its corporate office in New Jersey, and it is my understanding that the "vendors" (I'm not sure if this is the correct word) my company uses for business travel all get extremely high volumes of business from my employer. Anyway, whenever I get sent to Jersey, I'm explicitly told in my travel instructions not to tip anybody (except if I go out to eat) because this is all included in the corporate rate that my company has set up with the hotel, the transportation provider, etc.

So I was wondering if anybody knows how this works. For instance, if you work in a hotel that caters to employees of corporations that provide a high volume of business, and those corporations instruct their employees not to tip, do you automatically get some kind of bonus in lieu of not receiving a tip? Or is my employee just being cheap and telling us not to tip so that we don't claim the tip on our expense reports?

I would think they are probably already getting tipped somehow from your employer.

[capella]

Because of what I do for a living, I realize that I am not so far above anyone else that I couldn't end up in the exact same position one day, of having to take a measly paying job as a hotel worker.

I work with people, many who are just like you and I, who one day get into an accident or have a stroke, and only wish they could get out of the house and work a measly hotel job and get tips. Many people I work with work off-the-books jobs or for tips because this is the only way to make extra $$ to survive on with their teeny-tiny SSI check in NYC.

This is the difference between my thinking and your thinking, Amy. I don't fault people for having to work for tips, because I could be in that situation one day myself.
I did not fault anyone for working a low-wage job. I said I don't tip at hotels because that's what I'm paying for in my hotel bill! That is my personal choice! Did I say these were bad people? NO, I did not. And I HAVE been there before. And I also think YOUR thinking is skewed by where you live since you all tip like crazy up there. I didn't call you a bad person because you think cramming a few crumpled bills into a dusty envelope is going to make such a difference in someone's life. If that makes you feel so classy and better than ME then you go right ahead and think that. But it's not fooling me. This is such a stupid argument too! Over tipping!! Seriously? Give me a break.

[pisces2473]

Can you ladies knock it off, please?

If anyone wants a time out from QLC, I'll be glad to assist them.

[asm198]

Okay, to change the subject slightly, here's something about which I was wondering:

About once a year, my employer requires me to go to New Jersey to training. I work for a large corporation that has its corporate office in New Jersey, and it is my understanding that the "vendors" (I'm not sure if this is the correct word) my company uses for business travel all get extremely high volumes of business from my employer. Anyway, whenever I get sent to Jersey, I'm explicitly told in my travel instructions not to tip anybody (except if I go out to eat) because this is all included in the corporate rate that my company has set up with the hotel, the transportation provider, etc.

So I was wondering if anybody knows how this works. For instance, if you work in a hotel that caters to employees of corporations that provide a high volume of business, and those corporations instruct their employees not to tip, do you automatically get some kind of bonus in lieu of not receiving a tip? Or is my employee just being cheap and telling us not to tip so that we don't claim the tip on our expense reports?

I've worked in several hotels where corporations have negotiated a cheaper rate for their employees. I've not been a housekeeper, so I don't know if the employees of these companies tip or not, but to my knowledge we don't get a kickback from the company who has negotiated a cheaper rate with us. At least, I know I've never seen a bonus in my paycheck for things like that.

I don't tip when I stay in hotels. Usually I forget about it until I'm home, then I feel bad. However, when I do stay in hotels, I'm usually there for a couple of days and I request no service during my stay. I also clean up after myself before I leave, so all trash is in the trash cans, towels are stacked in the bathtub, etc.

[cache]

Back to Tina's threadjack :D

I ALWAYS tip the AAA guy. Once I had to have him come put on my spare tire and it was almost 100 degrees out. In a black top parking lot with no shade. I gave him $5 and told him to get some water or iced coffee or something. I wasn't sure if it was OK to do, but I mean, come on, this guy could have been in some serious trouble with the heat and sun.
.


Kind of OT, but I think tow-truck drivers definitely deserve more praise. Every experience I've had with one(only twice, but still), and most experiences I have heard about have been where the driver provided exceptional service. When I blew out two tires while out of state on a Sunday afternoon in a rural area, the driver drove me around for about an hour trying to find a place that was open - way more than he had to do...

[winneythepooh7]

Kind of OT, but I think tow-truck drivers definitely deserve more praise. Every experience I've had with one(only twice, but still), and most experiences I have heard about have been where the driver provided exceptional service. When I blew out two tires while out of state on a Sunday afternoon in a rural area, the driver drove me around for about an hour trying to find a place that was open - way more than he had to do...


I've had the same experience. The tow truck driver not only drove both of us and my dog (which he wasn't supposed to do) to the dealership, but he also drove us to a train station so we were able to get back home.

[EmberMae]

No one has yet explained why some professions deserved to be tipped and some don't.

It's not about money. Sure waiters make less than $3.00, and yes I totally understand tipping there because that is the only way they get paid for their job. However, anyone in the retail or fast food sector makes close to the minimum wage. In fact, I would wager that your average employee at Wal-Mart or McDonalds makes the same or less than your average pizza deliverer, mover, furniture deliverer, hairdresser, manicurist, housekeeper, tow truck driver, or taxi driver. Many of these people make more than I do. That is what doesn't make sense to me. I've see advertisements for pizza drivers. They start out at $8.00 an hour plus mileage reimbursement. So why do they deserve 15-20% just like a waiter who makes $2.50 an hour and who actually spends a good hour serving me?

What is a tip supposed to be? A subsidy for low wages? A bonus for doing your job as described? So why should some people expect a bonus for simply fulfilling their job description, and not others? It just doesn't make sense to me. Let me reiterate, I want everyone to get a fair wage. I know that people in low wage positions are often there because of bad luck. But I don't want to be personally responsible for determining how much they get. Give me a freaking bill. I don't know how much people make for doing their job. I don't know what their company covers and what they don't. So come up with an amount you want me to pay, and tell me that amount. Don't say, "the haircut will be $50," but imply that "if you are a good person, you'll give me $60." Why? either the haircut is $50 or it's not. Give me the right price. I'm paying you to cut my hair, so why should I pay you extra for...cutting my hair? Some would say it's for doing a good job, but to me it seems the real reward for doing a good job is getting repeat business. Regardless of whether they do a good job or just a merely adequate job, or even a poor job, you're still expected to tip, which to me perverts completely the original definition of a tip. I have tipped a person and yet been so disatisfied with the service I received, I would never go back. I only tipped because I felt obligated. It confuses the living hell out of me that I'm paying for a service, and yet I'm supposed to pay more for the service than I'm charged--sometimes. But only in some cases. Some services are generally covered with the fee you already paid--ex: UPS/FedEx, assistance at a retail store, tax preparation, oil change, medical care, etc. All I ask is--be clear! Be consistent! It causes me tons of anxiety trying to figure out whether I'm going to look like a fool for double paying for a service or look like an asshole for not tipping. Anything I can do for myself, I do for myself, mainly to avoid trying to figure out if the service fee I'm paying covers the server's salary or not.

[wordsmith]

No one has yet explained why some professions deserved to be tipped and some don't.

This is a good question.

[J-girl]

I usually tip when I am getting personal attention. Thats my cue. But I never knew we were supposed to tip tour bus drivers. I forgot to do that on my last trip. :rolleyes:

And a lot of the time it depends upon if the person's income depends upon the number of customers directly- like a hair stylist, massage therapist, waitress etc.

Even is they are pid by the hour- less customers means high possiblity of not having a job.

[pisces2473]

Do you think it's appropriate for me to ask my hairstylist how much she makes per cut? I think it would be a good thing to know--if she had to give the owner 50% of all services, I'd definitely tip her. BUT, if she only had to pay a certain amount per month, then I'd think differently.

[WorkInProgress]

This is a good question.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the idea that some of those professions were, at one time, performed by actual servants, and the idea that those who visited houses with servants paid the servants who waited on them at the end of their stay beyond their regular salary?

[cache]

No one has yet explained why some professions deserved to be tipped and some don't.

I tp my barber because I believe the benefit I am receiving is worth more than the cost of the haircut, therefore, I am trying to equalize the two. Same goes for a pizza delievery person - I am paying for the convenience of being able to get a meal without leaving home.

If I go to McDonalds, I am not being provided with any service that can be deemed worthy of a tip - no special service, no added convenience above what the basic premise of fast food restaurant is.

The difference between McDonald's and my barber is that the benefits of my barber's haircut extend beyond the haircut itself - it may be ease of hair maintenance, increased preception of self-image, more attention/respect from peers, etc. Delivered pizza saves me time, energy, allows me to complete other tasks, stay in on a rainy day, etc. A meal at McDonald's provides no spillover benefit once the meal is completed.

[Kitty]

I usually tip when I am getting personal attention. Thats my cue. But I never knew we were supposed to tip tour bus drivers. I forgot to do that on my last trip. :rolleyes:


I will tip them if they're entertaining. Have you seen that movie The Tour? I would totally tip that guy - I don't normally expect to get on a tour bus and hear existential babble and literary criticism.

This one time in NYC I had this ANNOYING tour bus guy and he thought he was being really charming and cute while flirting with me and my girlfriends. When we got off we didn't tip him and he made some really nasty remarks. Rude.

[wordsmith]

The difference between McDonald's and my barber is that the benefits of my barber's haircut extend beyond the haircut itself - it may be ease of hair maintenance, increased preception of self-image, more attention/respect from peers, etc.

Isn't that the barber's job, though? To cut your hair, and decently. Doesn't his livelihood depend upon doing his job and doing it well? It's not like it's a favor to you that you get a nice cut, it's what you're paying to get. How is that special service, something above and beyond the job description?

The issue that comes up for me is similar to what Ember raised...the fact is, I have a hard time supplementing somebody's wage, when they're JUST DOING THEIR JOB, as expected.

[WorkInProgress]

With hairstylists/shampooers, though, I'm totally ok tipping a fair amount if I really love my hair when they're done. If I feel like I've gotten a blah haircut/the stylist has put practically no effort into it, I still tip (that's me giving into convention), but relatively poorly.

[cache]

Isn't that the barber's job, though? To cut your hair, and decently. Doesn't his livelihood depend upon doing his job and doing it well? It's not like it's a favor to you that you get a nice cut, it's what you're paying to get. How is that special service, something above and beyond the job description?


In November, I went to a local "chop shop" to get a quick haircut, knowing that I would be getting one from my longtime barber in Cleveland the next month. There is a huge difference in haircuts from where ever, and one from my barber. I can't even explain it, but he knows how to cut hair - above and beyond anything that I have ever found anywhere else.

And so, I tip accordingly...the chop shop didn't get a tip. My barber got $5 on a $15 haircut.

[wordsmith]

That's the thing...and it's related to erosion in pride in a job well-done. People will only do a good job if they're getting paid extra under the table to do so? Why DO you have to pay extra to get quality work? I sound all old-school and "back in my day, people took pride in the work they'd done," but, sorry, it holds true. When tipping is no longer a true gratuity, but just something that's virtually, if not literally, built in and expected, it defeats the purpose. Using your barber as an example, if he does a bang-up job, he's doubtless getting good solid return business, excellent word of mouth, a good reputation and increased business due to that, and reaping those financial rewards.

[redav]

No one has yet explained why some professions deserved to be tipped and some don't.
I believe this is one of the flaws of the tip system.

To me, the reason for incorporating a tip into a job's pay structure is to force the motivation to satisfy the customer--if you don't do a good job, you will not get paid your "full" wage. Such is the case with waitstaff. I believe this group "deserves" to get a tip. However, when it becomes compulsory (a certain amount is expected as a "minimum"), it defeats the purpose. For me, I have no problem not tipping waitstaff who truly don't deserve it. Also, when it is a "don't-you-know," it is a serious problem. (We use this term at work to refer to things that we think are common knowledge, but aren't. Very bad things happen when you work with don't-you-knows.) If a tip is expected, that fact needs to be published/communicated. In many ways, this form of tipping is no different that working on commission.

Now, what about jobs that don't have the tip incorporated into their pay? (And no, I don't think that making min wage means you are expected to get tips.) I don't think this group "deserves" tips, which is not to say tipping is "wrong." Sometimes, it is a matter of convenience, like cabbies. Rounding up to the next 5 works b/c it simplifies change, speeds up the transaction, and generally makes life easier. I'm okay with that, but again, it needs to be advertised. Also, if someone goes out of his way to do a great job, I don't mind paying a bit extra for his effort. But it is "extra," and not normally included, and there should be no hard feelings if I don't. But for the times when, for whatever reason, I'm supposed to feel a moral responsibility (giving something back to those who don't make much, funding cops'/firefighters' retirements & life insurance, etc.), and I am compelled to pay a tip, then I have a problem. It is a persuasion/marketing method called reciprocity that is frequently based on guilt.

This topic is similar to annual bonuses for professionals. I don't think I have a right to a bonus (hence the term "bonus"), but knowing that if I do a great job, I could be paid something extra, it motivates me. If business is bad, or I do a poor job, it is unreasonable to think I somehow still deserve it.

[cache]

That's the thing...and it's related to erosion in pride in a job well-done. People will only do a good job if they're getting paid extra under the table to do so? Why DO you have to pay extra to get quality work? I sound all old-school and "back in my day, people took pride in the work they'd done," but, sorry, it holds true. When tipping is no longer a true gratuity, but just something that's virtually, if not literally, built in and expected, it defeats the purpose. Using your barber as an example, if he does a bang-up job, he's doubtless getting good solid return business, excellent word of mouth, a good reputation and increased business due to that, and reaping those financial rewards.

I understand your point, and maybe I do have lower standards for service I receive, therefore it is easier to exceed them.

[wordsmith]

I understand your point, and maybe I do have lower standards for service I receive, therefore it is easier to exceed them.

It's hard not to have lower standards, when there are comparatively few who take pride in their work just for the sake of doing so.

But I don't think tipping as a matter of course, rather than for service that exceeds the standard, helps this situation, at all.

[winneythepooh7]

That's the thing...and it's related to erosion in pride in a job well-done. People will only do a good job if they're getting paid extra under the table to do so? Why DO you have to pay extra to get quality work? I sound all old-school and "back in my day, people took pride in the work they'd done," but, sorry, it holds true. When tipping is no longer a true gratuity, but just something that's virtually, if not literally, built in and expected, it defeats the purpose. Using your barber as an example, if he does a bang-up job, he's doubtless getting good solid return business, excellent word of mouth, a good reputation and increased business due to that, and reaping those financial rewards.

Even in professions where tips aren't a part of the job, I feel that the quality and pride in one's work has gone down tremendously. As a program manager, it's just really hard to find good staff to work in my field. I've also noticed that a lot of people who are quick to bitch about their pay and such are not doing their job to the best of their ability (or even half-way). At least at my agency. I've also seen this in the past in other agencies I have worked at. I wish there were more people in human services on this board because I'd be interested to see what your thoughts are. I've had colleagues and supervisors tell me that a lot of it has to do with the NYC area, where people just don't give a shit about their work, but want to be paid for it and more........

[wordsmith]

I think it's pretty much across the board that people very much expect to be very well-compensated for jobs considerably less than well-done. I would be ashamed to squawk about my pay if I were not doing my job to the best of my ability. But I don't think that's true of many. There are a lot of people who fully believe they deserve to earn more and work less.

[winneythepooh7]

I think it's pretty much across the board that people very much expect to be very well-compensated for jobs considerably less than well-done. I would be ashamed to squawk about my pay if I were not doing my job to the best of my ability. But I don't think that's true of many. There are a lot of people who fully believe they deserve to earn more and work less.

Or they say that they don't need to do anything else because they aren't being compensated for it. But what about when they aren't even following the MOST BASIC requirements of their job description:rolleyes: :rolleyes: .

[sparklyrocks]

I'm a flight attendant, so staying in hotels is part of my work requirements. I don't tip my housekeepers in this case. I never ask for extras and I always leave my rooms tidy. I do tip room service and shuttle drivers that help me with my luggage.