Spat with parents

[Ciderhillnh]

Alright as most of you know Im going to NYC this weekend with my BF to see his Mom and sister.

I went last year and didn’t tell my family, there was a huge storm blowing up the coast and I knew they would tell me not to go and be pissed if I did…..so I just didn’t tell them.

Flash forward to this year……I mention it to my mom on the phone Tuesday cringing as the words left my mouth, upon which her usually crappy reaction was one of oh wow that will be fun!

I felt a sense of relief, for once she was actually positive!

Well I go to dinner at my parents house last night, and as soon as I walk through the door I sensed something was up, and true to form after dinner with the world News on…my Dad starts in on me-----

"So I hear you're going to NYC?!"
Yeah…..
So he then tells me what a surprise it was to hear I was going with my BF since he didn’t know I was still dating my BF
(I asked them if my BF could come to Xmas dinner, so we're talking what 6 weeks?)

My reply was if anything had changed I would have said something.

SO then they start to tell me how Im secretive and don’t tell them much about whats going on with me (which isnt really true I just don’t tell them about going to the movies with my friends or dinner etc)

So my Dad pipes in that I never mention my BFs name….I say not much to mention…he works, I work we spend time together when we can…..

So my mom launches into how I always go to their house for dinner and never try to organize my BF and them having dinner at my place.

I reply about how my mom doesn’t like to be out of her routine of taking her shower at 730 and relaxing, dessert at 9 and then bed. Its always been easier to go to their house as to not put them out since its rare that they will go out somewhere else.

I got an eye roll for that.

So then my mother tells me that this issue is apparently being spoken about with my entire family. I brought my BF to a family wedding and it was the first time my parents met him……well apparently the entire family found it odd that they hadnt met my BF prior to the wedding. So my mom tells me that she found the situation very odd herself.

She then tells me that my aunt called to ask my mom if my BF would like to go to T-giving dinner, but my mom told her that she didn’t know if I was still dating my BF. My aunt found this weird that my mom didn’t know.
My mom COULD have just picked up the phone and asked me, but instead she tells my aunt she doesn’t know and how my aunt find it odd that we don’t communicate.

Plus I would find it weird to have my BF at T-giving anyway because its ONLY FAMILY allowed (no BFs or people you're dating…if you're engaged sure……married of course…otherwise NO)
Plus my BF had to work so it doesn’t matter anyway.

So Im told they don’t ask me questions about what Im up to because they feel like they are prying. I told them that they arent and if they ask something I don’t want to answer I wont, but then they went back to how Im so secretive and don’t tell them much.

I don’t share with them because every time I do, they are so negative that if Im happy or excited about something, they suck all the fun out of it. So why share with them?

Plus they never call me to see how Im doing, they never ask me anything (I share things about work, my house etc…..and ask them about their weekend etc)

I think this should go both ways, they want me to share more, then they should also ask some questions to seem like they are interested, and then don’t be negative about everything I tell them.

Its almost like they are reacting how parents do when their kid is 16, not talking to them much and is never home…..the child has become autonomous and the parents don’t know how to deal with it.
Well….Im 10 years PAST that and just now they are reacting to it? Maybe they finally realized they don’t have control over me and want to try and gain some back?

Am I the only one who doesn’t share much with their parents?
Should I be the bigger person here and share with them just to make them happy, and sacrifice the fact that I don’t share because they are so negative when I do?

[Ciderhillnh]

No one has anything to post about what they share with their parents, vs what they omitt from telling them?

Or why they do share or why they dont share at all?

[NorthernAngel]

I share a lot more with my mother than I do with my dad (parents are divorced).

I got divorced in early 2006 and had a rocky few months afterwards, I kinda fell flat in my face a couple of times getting back into the "dating" game. Anyways, my mother - even if she didn't agree with my actions - usually kept her comments to herself. My father on the other hand doesn't have that quality - so I refrained from mentionning any guy around me until my current bf.

I still got an earful about "Blah blah blah... divorce... blah blah... didn't wait... blah blah blah... too fast"

Who wants to open up to people who just give you negative responses all the time? I just clam up to negativity (I'm not talking about honest / valid critique here... I'm talking about the you-can-never-do-things-right attitude)

[Ciderhillnh]

my parents fall into the you can never do anything right category.

My Dad gives unsolicited opinions, my mom just gets a face on and pretends to be happy but you can see right through her.

I dont get into trouble, or hurt people etc, I do what Im supposed to do and while they might not agree with it, its my life.....they need to let me live it.

[red]

listen, your parents are controlling and manipulative. they're not going to change. you should get therapy to learn how to set boundaries with them. don't bother writing back a whole long post about why you can't/won't do that- it's your life. but my advice is that family problems that run as deep as yours cannot be solved by advice from a message board. you need to get professional help.

i only bothered to post this because i have been in your boyfriend's position and it sucks. and if you guys ever want to take it to the next step or whatever, your issues with your parents are going to be a big problem.

[AshleyJordan]

listen, your parents are controlling and manipulative. they're not going to change. you should get therapy to learn how to set boundaries with them. don't bother writing back a whole long post about why you can't/won't do that- it's your life. but my advice is that family problems that run as deep as yours cannot be solved by advice from a message board. you need to get professional help.

i only bothered to post this because i have been in your boyfriend's position and it sucks. and if you guys ever want to take it to the next step or whatever, your issues with your parents are going to be a big problem.

As someone whose parents are also controlling and manipulative, but who has overcome a lot of the baggage from this, I agree strongly with Red. Getting therapy to address some of those issues is absolutely the best thing I've ever done for myself, and I feel much happier and balanced as a result. Also, their behavior toward me has shifted a bit now, too, now that the power imbalance isn't so great.

[Ciderhillnh]

I dont think that therapy will help to change anything. If they arent going to change, and arent going to go to therapy, they arent going to respect and boundaries that I set or anything that I do to try and change the situation.

My boundaries are that I dont share with them and tough sh*t if they dont like it. They are now calling me out on it trying to get me to share, well tough luck, they created this situation and well the chance to change it and make us closer passed a very long time ago.

I really dont see how my relationship with my parents will affect my BF. He doesnt have to interact with them, and he really doesnt want to, so its of no real huge deal. His parents live on the other side of the country and he barely talks to them.....and he doesnt have to go with me all the time if we were to get married, to visit my parents. I can go on my own, he can come with if he wants.
Plus I dont burden him with my complaints or anger about the situation with my parents, its not for him to solve or deal with. so its not like has to sit and listen to me bitch about them or the way they treat me, I just deal with it and carry on my life as normal.

[asm198]

I share things with my mom, but it's clear that I'm not looking for opinions or approval. I'm just sharing on a 'need to know' basis. My mom and I used to go through huge power struggles until I was about 24. She seemed to think that every thing I did or was going to do was up for debate. I'd get a laundry list of reason why I shouldn't do things, why it would be dangerous, why it scared her, etc. I finally told her that I was going to do whatever I wanted to do, no matter what she thought about it, so she'd best just get over it.

Lots of whining and crying happened, but she finally started to get the hint. Especially when I asked her one day what she was doing at my age and she said she was married. That really opened up her eyes to how nutty she was being.

We still have our moments and I have to remind her to knock it off because it's annoying, but she's much better than she used to be. She used to be hyper overprotective.

[wordsmith]

I dont think that therapy will help to change anything. If they arent going to change, and arent going to go to therapy, they arent going to respect and boundaries that I set or anything that I do to try and change the situation.

You do realize that this is why you had a thread up for a full day to minimal response, right? Because you shoot down whatever anybody says, routinely, and nobody feels the need to put in the effort of formulating a response.

[Ciderhillnh]

See that’s whats so weird, they don’t tell me outright 'don’t do that its dangerous, it scares me"……etc.

There is no debate about what I do, because I just don’t tell them what Im doing or what Ive done.

They used to pass judgement when I lived with them growing up. I shared because I HAD to tell them where I was going to leave the house…….now I don’t live at home and don’t have to tell them anythign I don’t want to….and it seems they have just realized this, realized they have lost 'control' and because of that are pitching a fit that Im secretive and don’t share.

Secretive is being a teenager and whispering on the phone, not telling your parents who your friends are, or where you are going or what you are doing…….

Not sharing, isnt secretive, its NOT sharing.

They have judged every guy Ive dated and made me feel bad about dating them and ultimately the pressure would break the relationship apart.

I made a decision about my current BF to NOT let them do that again…….so I share very little. I don’t see the need over Sunday dinner to tell them well my BF worked a full week this week and he texted me once…..and we went to a movie on Saturday.

Who cares?!

They made me feel bad about a nice gift I received, so much that I couldn’t wear it because I would get looks of disapproval….so since I don’t share about gifts my current BF gives me (because I don’t want them to make me feel poorly about something nice that’s being done for me)

They have no idea I got a flat screen TV for Xmas….their response would be how it’s a luxury item and so expensive for Xmas and its innapropriate……wow so someone decides to do that for me and rather than say hey that’s neat, you make me feel crappy…not sharing.
My BF got me a really nice Harley jacket for my Bday, I wear it all the time, but never when Im going to see them….because they will ask questions then make me feel bad about it……nope sorry I like my gift, not sharing.

WORDS----I was actually looking to see what people share or DONT share with their parents and why.....not about how to fix my families problems.

[wordsmith]

WORDS----I was actually looking to see what people share or DONT share with their parents and why.....not about how to fix my families problems.

Why would it matter? Just curious?

I share about 99% of things with my parents, and most times I'm glad I did, and other times, I end up wishing I hadn't, and sometimes it ends up with me getting annoying reactions and unsolicited advice, but life goes on, and it's still important to me to share. And the small percentage of things I don't are the things I don't share with anybody, not just things I hold out on because it has anything to do with my parents, specifically...but I couldn't have anymore opposite a relationship with mine than the one you describe with yours. How does knowing this matter? What are you looking to get with your post?

[winneythepooh7]

Cider:

Have you ever thought about starting a blog or journaling about your relationship with your parents?

I've read a lot of your threads you write about them, and it seems like it may be a more useful outlet than QLC.

Or maybe you can find an online forum like this one for people with dysfunctional family relationships.


Just some thoughts from my observations.

[Ciderhillnh]

Words----because Im curious if other people dont tell their parents things because they dont want the crappy reaction...or if they just tell them anyway and ignore their reaction etc......
Just looking as a litmus test mostly.

I know most people have a VASTLY different relationship with their parents and Im curious how that is.....is it because they have siblings, is it because of their parents feelings towards kids in general etc.....

I have one friend whose mother is very overprotective and nieve, and because of this she shares very little with her mother so she doesnt worry or tell my friend how dangerous whatever she is doing or did is.....so this friend of mine tends to understand where Im coming from.

I have posted to other forums....ones with parents that talk as a community, as well as an expert page with psychologists (you Email what your issue is and they disect it and respond within 24 hours)
Most have told me to not share, or to share limited need to know things (like taking a trip so in case something happens), they also dive into my parents psych issues and what may be the root of their operating with me.

Most of it I have tried and not much of a difference in how my family operates.

What they have noticed is how little Im sharing recently, which created this whole conversation....so they are seeing a change and getting pissed that Im not under their control.
Im not going to share just because they are pitching a fit, if anything this is a good move on my part so they are less controlling in my life.

[wordsmith]

I know most people have a VASTLY different relationship with their parents and Im curious how that is.....is it because they have siblings, is it because of their parents feelings towards kids in general etc.....

Based on what you've written, I'd imagine parental personalities are a pretty big factor.

[Ciderhillnh]

I agree.
So for me....its finding out about my friends parents...what do they do, do they have friends, how do they live.....

90% of the time, my parents are totally odd and out of the norm. Does that make them weird? No it makes them who they are......BUT at the same time it then in turn affects how they view and interact with me.

[wordsmith]

90% of the time, my parents are totally odd and out of the norm. Does that make them weird?

Yeah. Acting odd and out of the norm is what "weird' IS. That may well be "who they are." Weird people.

[Ciderhillnh]

I don’t exactly think that there is a steadfast term for what is considered 'normal'

My parents don’t go out much. They sometimes go to dinner.
They don’t have friends that they see or talk to on the phone.

My Dad works so his social interaction is through his clients and their companies.
My mom does not work and hasn’t since she was 25, her social interaction comes from shopping or getting her hair done.

Most of my friends parents, they travel or take weekend get-a-ways.
They have friends that they talk to or get together with.

So my parents are homebodies, I don’t think its weird, but its 'weird' compared to most of my friends parents……but my friends arent enough of a control group to know if what my parents do is normal or not…need a better sample of families…hence I posted.

Not what I orginially posted for but what it has turned into. I mostly just wanted to know what people do or do not share with their parents and why.

[kitalyn414]

I mostly just wanted to know what people do or do not share with their parents and why.then why not say, "how much do you share with your parents and why?"

[wordsmith]

I don’t exactly think that there is a steadfast term for what is considered 'normal'

My parents don’t go out much. They sometimes go to dinner.
They don’t have friends that they see or talk to on the phone.

My Dad works so his social interaction is through his clients and their companies.
My mom does not work and hasn’t since she was 25, her social interaction comes from shopping or getting her hair done.

Most of my friends parents, they travel or take weekend get-a-ways.
They have friends that they talk to or get together with.

So my parents are homebodies, I don’t think its weird, but its 'weird' compared to most of my friends parents……but my friends arent enough of a control group to know if what my parents do is normal or not…need a better sample of families…hence I posted.

Not what I orginially posted for but what it has turned into. I mostly just wanted to know what people do or do not share with their parents and why.

None of the above is a main indicator that your parents are weird. Their interaction with you is.

[red]

Words----because Im curious if other people dont tell their parents things because they dont want the crappy reaction...or if they just tell them anyway and ignore their reaction etc......
Just looking as a litmus test mostly.

I know most people have a VASTLY different relationship with their parents and Im curious how that is.....is it because they have siblings, is it because of their parents feelings towards kids in general etc.....


some families are enmeshed, like yours. some are not. you don't see how it affects your relationships because you have lived with it your entire life- that's where therapy is helpful. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE. the therapy is for you to change the way you react to them. if you bring someone into the situation who is "an outsider" things will get messy. wait and see.

[Ciderhillnh]

I did post that question in my original post.

I have changed how I react with them and how I interact with them.

Explain to me how someone who isnt part of my family gets involved with me and then its going to get messy.
That person has no right to tell me how to interact or about what my relationship is like with my parents. THey are MY parents.

So how does it get messy?

[wordsmith]

some families are enmeshed, like yours. some are not.

And some enmeshed families are enmeshed because they relate to one another positively and genuinely enjoy being around one another and are interested in one another's lives. Others are because they want to exert control over one another and their interest in one anothers lives revolves around having the opportunity to pass judgment. Some closely knit families are beneficial, some are toxic.

[winneythepooh7]

some families are enmeshed, like yours. some are not. you don't see how it affects your relationships because you have lived with it your entire life- that's where therapy is helpful. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE. the therapy is for you to change the way you react to them. if you bring someone into the situation who is "an outsider" things will get messy. wait and see.


Exactly. Many of the people I work with IRL have really fucked up family situations. Because of that, we don't often involve the family if they are negative, because really, it just creates chaos and unnecessary drama. My CLIENTS are the ones that need to learn techniques to cope with their dysfunctional parents/siblings. I think it's the same in your situation C. You've accepted the fact that your parents are the way they are: now focus on YOU and how you can better deal with them, not change them.

[AshleyJordan]

Exactly. Many of the people I work with IRL have really fucked up family situations. Because of that, we don't often involve the family if they are negative, because really, it just creates chaos and unnecessary drama. My CLIENTS are the ones that need to learn techniques to cope with their dysfunctional parents/siblings. I think it's the same in your situation C. You've accepted the fact that your parents are the way they are: now focus on YOU and how you can better deal with them, not change them.

I will say, although my family hasn't changed too much (witness my other threads about the drama they still cause in my life) I've changed how I relate to them, and how much power I give them over my life and moods. They know this and aren't as negative as they used to be-- they know I simply won't put up with it, so they have to act civil, if nothing else.

Although our relationship will probably never be as close as I may've wished-- it's better and I'm infinitely happier. Again, I'm totally convinced I couldn't have come to this realization without therapy.

[red]

And some enmeshed families are enmeshed because they relate to one another positively and genuinely enjoy being around one another and are interested in one another's lives.

right but that's not enmeshed. like i am close to my family, but we're not enmeshed. i mean winney may have more insight as a SW, but this is just a layperson's explanation.

[winneythepooh7]

I did post that question in my original post.

I have changed how I react with them and how I interact with them.

Explain to me how someone who isnt part of my family gets involved with me and then its going to get messy.
That person has no right to tell me how to interact or about what my relationship is like with my parents. THey are MY parents.

So how does it get messy?

If you want the relationship to become serious, and progress, it is going to be an issue (if it's not already). Fortunately for me, my fiance's family are pretty decent people. However, there are dysfunctional friends in his life. One in particular, he has chosen not to have any contact with on my recommendation. The guy is a druggie and has major anger management problems and is looking for money. If he finds out where we live, he could hurt both of us. That is when it is perfectly alright for me to say that he can't interact with this guy.

That's an extreme example, but it is similar to what you are going through.

In a serious relationship, you are a joint unit. Your SO shouldn't have to deal with drama from your parents, and your SO shouldn't have to sit by and be peachy-keen with the way your parents treat you. If he is, well, I question his feelings towards you too, because that would also be dysfunctional.

[wordsmith]

right but that's not enmeshed. like i am close to my family, but we're not enmeshed. i mean winney may have more insight as a SW, but this is just a layperson's explanation.

I'm pretty enmeshed with my family. But they're not abusive to me, as cider's often indicated hers are.

[red]

Explain to me how someone who isnt part of my family gets involved with me and then its going to get messy.
That person has no right to tell me how to interact or about what my relationship is like with my parents. THey are MY parents.

So how does it get messy?

ok, so what happens when you have to choose between your parents and your future spouse? what if you have kids?
then what do you do? a "normal" family wouldn't put you in that situation, but i can almost guarantee than an enmeshed family will. because an outsider upsets the dynamic.

[winneythepooh7]

ok, so what happens when you have to choose between your parents and your future spouse? what if you have kids?
then what do you do? a "normal" family wouldn't put you in that situation, but i can almost guarantee than an enmeshed family will. because an outsider upsets the dynamic.

I don't think she is planning to get married or have children, and I am sure that is related to her relationship with her family.

[tina1979]

I'm pretty enmeshed with my family. But they're not abusive to me, as cider's often indicated hers are.
same here.. my mom is by far my best friend

[wordsmith]

same here.. my mom is by far my best friend

Same, here. Mom and sister tie, followed closely by brothers and dad, followed then by one sister in law. The other, not so much.

[cache]

what if you have kids? .

Oh, jeez....

[kitalyn414]

I did post that question in my original post.

I have changed how I react with them and how I interact with them.

Explain to me how someone who isnt part of my family gets involved with me and then its going to get messy.
That person has no right to tell me how to interact or about what my relationship is like with my parents. THey are MY parents.

So how does it get messy?yes but who could find it? that isn't what you really wanted to know, otherwise you would have left out all the backstory. you wanted ppl to comment on your particular situation.

why would someone have to explain that? it seems like common knowledge that anyone who is involved with you would be involved with your parents by default. i think that person gains a right to give advice when they have to listen to you bitch about the problem and deal with your emotional fallout.

[coll214]

I will say, although my family hasn't changed too much (witness my other threads about the drama they still cause in my life) I've changed how I relate to them, and how much power I give them over my life and moods. They know this and aren't as negative as they used to be-- they know I simply won't put up with it, so they have to act civil, if nothing else.

Although our relationship will probably never be as close as I may've wished-- it's better and I'm infinitely happier. Again, I'm totally convinced I couldn't have come to this realization without therapy.
110% cosign all of this. My family is hardly the Cleavers but i've learned how to cope or in some cases, completely cut off the toxic members b/c ultimately it's MY life. Sometimes it's the best thing to do for yourself...

[Ciderhillnh]

My BF isnt okay with how they treat me and he tells me what he would like to say to them, but tells me that he never would because he knows the fall out between them and me would be too much.

He doesnt deal with the 'drama' with my family because he isnt around it. He doesnt come to dinners, thats just not how they are (though from this conversation they do want to get to know him but Im reluctant because they never want to get to know someone, and when they see one thing they dont like, they harp on me with all their negative thoughts and ultimately bust the relationship apart)----this is why Ive been careful about their interaction because I dont want them to be the cause of the relationship failing.

Red-----if I had to choose between parents and spouse (even though I dont plan on getting married)----Id go with spouse. My parents dont support me and their major role in my life is finished. Lets say for arguments sake I get divorced, at that point I wont be relying on my parents to put my life back together.....Ill make sure that I can support myself if that were to happen so I dont have to ask for help or look for it.

I dont plan on having children, but if choosing between kids and parents, the kids BEST interest comes first, so thats where my loyalties lie.

My parents have never wanted people around, to come over after school or to even grab drinks with now.....Im used to this so I just do my thing with my parents, and dont involve my SO. If my parents want to have dinner with my SO and myself, I go for it, but the last time they asked to have that happen was in high school before I could drive.

[meatwad]

110% cosign all of this. My family is hardly the Cleavers but i've learned how to cope or in some cases, completely cut off the toxic members b/c ultimately it's MY life. Sometimes it's the best thing to do for yourself...

Yeah, I wouldn't say I ignore my family, but I keep my distance. A visit once every other week is more than enough to keep everyone updated with what's what.

[AshleyJordan]

Yeah, I wouldn't say I ignore my family, but I keep my distance. A visit once every other week is more than enough to keep everyone updated with what's what.

Must be something about people from Maine. . .

[Ciderhillnh]

Kita...not really.
I was dating my BF for well over 6 months before my parents knew about him, and they met him for the first time at the wedding because they wouldnt do dinner to meet him before (I suggested it they turned it down)

My parents are not very welcoming people, so an SO has to interact with them very little. They dont call me, they dont just stop over, its scheduled time and I can change that at any time (right now it works and Im just bidding my time until I move to stop going over to have dinner with them)

As for my BF listening to me bitch, he doesnt. He sometimes asks how dinner was and I tell him oh it was fine and maybe some of the interesting stuff we talked about, as far as spats or anything else, I dont really share those with him because there is such a history that he cant totally understand the arguments, and why burden him with my bitching?

When I get into these spats with my parents I dont go home crying or even get pissed off. I think about it, play it over in my head, and move on.

[meatwad]

Must be something about people from Maine. . .

No, my family was just kind of distant when I was growing up. Mom in one room, Dad in another, brother in his and me in mine. Just the way it was.

[winneythepooh7]

Speaking of moving, what is your living situation going to be once you move out of the condo they own?

[cache]

and why burden him with my bitching?

If you can't vent to your SO, what's the point?

[Chameleon]

If you can't vent to your SO, what's the point?
cache! SOs aren't for talking to honestly, how insecure of you to think that they should provide any sort of emotional support.

[Ciderhillnh]

I dont have to vent to my SO about every little thing that goes on with me. His role as my BF isnt to be my punching bag to bitch at.......

Plus I have a ton of friends I can talk to if I want, and sometimes I do lean on them. Just depends if I want to talk about something or not.

Winney....basically Ill be moving into an apartment. Dont know what town yet etc, but Im looking and I have my price range and what I want in a home.
But I told my parents flat out they will NOT be helping me with the move, I will give them notice as I would with any landlord (since we have a written agreement)...30 days prior to my moving.

They dont ask if Im looking or what I plan on doing....so I dont share either, Ill just tell them once Ive signed a lease and that Im moving.

[cache]

cache! SOs aren't for talking to honestly, how insecure of you to think that they should provide any sort of emotional support.

Sorry, I forgot we are in dysfunction junction.

[kitalyn414]

it seems really pointless for anyone to comment on this situation because you just diffuse each and every word.

[AshleyJordan]

it seems really pointless for anyone to comment on this situation because you just diffuse each and every word.

I agree. . . it's kinda starting to piss me off a little. :rolleyes:

[red]

here is an article that i think gets at the diff between "close" and "enmeshed". there is a family business angle in the article, but the basic ideas are the same.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1154/is_n11_v83/ai_17405462

here is an example of how an enmeshed family acts. when we first got married, my husband and i decided we wanted to go away for the weekend for his birthday. my SIL threw a hysterical fit. like screaming, carrying on, the whole deal, because he would not be with "the family" for his birthday. we said, oh, we'll celebrate it another time, but they wouldn't go for that because it wasn't HIS ACTUAL BIRTHDAY.

[AshleyJordan]

here is an example of how an enmeshed family acts. when we first got married, my husband and i decided we wanted to go away for the weekend for his birthday. my SIL threw a hysterical fit. like screaming, carrying on, the whole deal, because he would not be with "the family" for his birthday. we said, oh, we'll celebrate it another time, but they wouldn't go for that because it wasn't HIS ACTUAL BIRTHDAY.

Oh jeez. That must be hard for you to deal with.

[Ciderhillnh]

The birthday example you gave....not my family at all. They dont throw hissy fits if I do stuff like that. Ive not seen them on my Bday.......they dont freak if I have plans and cant be with them, they are understanding of that.

Kita...Im giving you background so you can understand the facts more fully and maybe understand more of where Im coming from.

[tina1979]

I agree. . . it's kinda starting to piss me off a little. :rolleyes:
a little?

[kitalyn414]

Kita...Im giving you background so you can understand the facts more fully and maybe understand more of where Im coming from.
hun - no one is ever going to understand where you're coming from. consider speaking with a professional.

[Chameleon]

a little?
I find it does great things for my blood pressure when I just read replies from those still hardcore enough to wade through her posts. It cuts down on the crazy significantly.

[red]

so you are saying that if your mom didn't get her shower at 7:30, then she would be fine with it?

listen, i will be really honest and say that my husband and i almost split up over his family- the family crap was so draining emotionally and especially financially. so you can believe me or not, doesn't matter to me.

we got therapy (and like AJ), now things are MUCH MUCH better.

if anyone wants to discuss it in a constructive way, i am happy to, but it seems like cider has all of the answers.

[cache]

This is my version of reading the morning comics...please don't take it away from me:D

[tina1979]

This is my version of reading the morning comics...please don't take it away from me:D
I know. I come here now for the Ciderjacks with a cup of coffee and wish I had popcorn by lunch. Its like an iteractive Cider-Soap (soap opera). The fun and dysfunction that never ends...

[Chameleon]

if anyone wants to discuss it in a constructive way, i am happy to, but it seems like cider has all of the answers.
Check every single thread she's started or thread-jacked, no one EVER knows anything that can help her. I'm still not sure why she keeps posting because it's not for advice, must be for the attention. Or to get people to feel sorry for her, only thing is we feel sorry for different reasons than what she intends.

[pisces2473]

here is an article that i think gets at the diff between "close" and "enmeshed". there is a family business angle in the article, but the basic ideas are the same.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1154/is_n11_v83/ai_17405462

here is an example of how an enmeshed family acts. when we first got married, my husband and i decided we wanted to go away for the weekend for his birthday. my SIL threw a hysterical fit. like screaming, carrying on, the whole deal, because he would not be with "the family" for his birthday. we said, oh, we'll celebrate it another time, but they wouldn't go for that because it wasn't HIS ACTUAL BIRTHDAY.
Yeah, I think red and words have the same idea, just using diff. words.

My grandmother was like you SIL, red. My parents had to spend their 1st anniv. with my grandparents. Yay. :rolleyes:

I think it's great that families are close, mine is, I think. When your family can't get that you're grown up, with a spouse, kids, whatever, of your own, and demands that you be loyal to them, that's a huge issue. Yes, when kids get married or move away, it's hard on the parents. But to totally try to control their life, esp. when there's a spouse and his/her family, that's crazy.

[J-girl]

Yeah, I think red and words have the same idea, just using diff. words.

My grandmother was like you SIL, red. My parents had to spend their 1st anniv. with my grandparents. Yay. :rolleyes:

I think it's great that families are close, mine is, I think. When your family can't get that you're grown up, with a spouse, kids, whatever, of your own, and demands that you be loyal to them, that's a huge issue. Yes, when kids get married or move away, it's hard on the parents. But to totally try to control their life, esp. when there's a spouse and his/her family, that's crazy.

I agree with that. If everyone is on each other's face all day, it does more harm than good.

[yankeeyosh]

Sorry, I forgot we are in dysfunction junction.

I don't know what's going on, but I like that expression...I thought I was the only one my age who remembers that :)

But I do still think Cider brings some merit to these boards...some of what she says may seem far fetched, but eh, I've seen worse. Whether or not you agree with her, this hounding doesn't help.

[AshleyJordan]

I don't know what's going on, but I like that expression...I thought I was the only one my age who remembers that :)

I remember Conjunction Junction, what's your function? Hooking up words and phrases and clauses. . . now try to get that out of your head!

[Ciderhillnh]

Yeah sometimes she is fine with it, but mostly when its under her control, that its her CHOICE to put it off until 745 or whatever.

Sometimes there will be a story on a celebrity news magazine show she will want to see so she will put off her shower to see it.

Or she and my Dad will head out to do something and will grab dinner and she will get home later and take her shower then (this is maybe 4 times a year tops)

I called her last weekend to tell her I wouldnt be over for dinner because I would be watching the Super Bowl at a friends.....no issue there either.

Red---I dont doubt that you went through that, but I dont think that its how it happens for everyone. Sure for some people its a major struggle and hassle for others they function with it and know how to handle it.
No two relationships are the same.

[tina1979]

Red---I dont doubt that you went through that, but I dont think that its how it happens for everyone. Sure for some people its a major struggle and hassle for others they function with it and know how to handle it.
No two relationships are the same.
If you knew how to function and handle it then you wouldn't be here complaining about it.

As for therapy, you'll never know if it will work or not if you don't TRY it.

[AshleyJordan]

As for therapy, you'll never know if it will work or not if you don't TRY it.

It's really not that bad. . . all you do is talk about yourself for 45 minutes, seriously, I'm sure you can do it.
Not to sound totally glib about therapy-- there is definitely more to it than that, but at least for me the big theme was just talking about ME once a week.

[Ciderhillnh]

Ive tried therapy....didnt do much. I dont think that therapy is that bad, though while I might sometimes feel like I should talk to someone, I dont have the $180 to spend each session.

Tina....do you say that to all posters who come here to bitch or post about things? Im saying that some people know how to handle the relationships, others dont.
I never spoke about myself as to if I know how to handle it or dont.

[AshleyJordan]

Ive tried therapy....didnt do much. I dont think that therapy is that bad, though while I might sometimes feel like I should talk to someone, I dont have the $180 to spend each session.
That's what insurance is for. I assume that you have benefits through your job. Also, if you have the $ (or your parents have the $) to spend on LASIK and other expenses, paying for therapy should be a priority.

[tina1979]

Tina....do you say that to all posters who come here to bitch or post about things? Im saying that some people know how to handle the relationships, others dont.
I never spoke about myself as to if I know how to handle it or dont.
Can't say as though I do.

You imply that you know how to handle it based on every other post that you have made knocking everyone's advice.

[Ciderhillnh]

Insurance I have through work supports 3 visits PER YEAR, and they only cover 30% of the total cost for that visit.....so not really something that seems to make any sense.

My parents are paying for LASIK, they offered.

First off I cant ASK them for money, that is forbidden in my family (support yourself we are not here to pay your bills or take care of you once you have moved out)

Second if I even tried to ask them, they would then want to know WHY I wanted to go to therapy and the answer 'to talk and work through some problems' would not suffice with them, they would want to know what the problems are etc, and saying DEALING WITH YOU, wouldnt exactly work.

[AshleyJordan]

Insurance I have through work supports 3 visits PER YEAR, and they only cover 30% of the total cost for that visit.....so not really something that seems to make any sense.

My parents are paying for LASIK, they offered.

First off I cant ASK them for money, that is forbidden in my family (support yourself we are not here to pay your bills or take care of you once you have moved out)

Second if I even tried to ask them, they would then want to know WHY I wanted to go to therapy and the answer 'to talk and work through some problems' would not suffice with them, they would want to know what the problems are etc, and saying DEALING WITH YOU, wouldnt exactly work.

Fuck it. I'm done trying to help here.

[Ciderhillnh]

Um sorry that I cant afford therapy or ask my parents to pay for it......and my insurance doesnt cover it.

Im not saying your suggestion is bad or not valid.....if my health insurance covered it then I would probably be going.

[asm198]

Make out with a therapist. Maybe they'd be willing to help you out.

[embrassezla]

Fuck it. I'm done trying to help here.
Atta girl! COME TO THE DARK SIDE.

[coll214]

Fuck it. I'm done trying to help here.
LMAO... and thus why it took days for people to begin responding :D

[tina1979]

Atta girl! COME TO THE DARK SIDE.
bring her in quick before anyone notices she's missing!

[AshleyJordan]

bring her in quick before anyone notices she's missing!
:p
you guys are killing me.

[wordsmith]

That's what insurance is for. I assume that you have benefits through your job. Also, if you have the $ (or your parents have the $) to spend on LASIK and other expenses, paying for therapy should be a priority.

Seriously...if memory serves, her parents are paying for Lasik, because it's their fault for damaging her with their faulty eye genes. Too bad they can't pay for therapy, since it's their fault for damaging her with their piss poor parenting. I'd say that crystal clear vision is FAR more important than, I don't know, being a functional human being.

[yankeeyosh]

Something I have learned here is that different people have different circumstances. I am beginning to tolerate the notion that someone who makes $40K a year considers him/herself to be "poor" and $70K is inadequate at age 24 or 25. Or someone can advance to managerial level quickly, while others are stuck in a rut for years. I am starting to accept this. So I think the same logic should be applied here. It may not make sense, to some degree, but not everyone is the same.

[red]

My parents are paying for LASIK, they offered.

First off I cant ASK them for money, that is forbidden in my family (support yourself we are not here to pay your bills or take care of you once you have moved out)

Second if I even tried to ask them, they would then want to know WHY I wanted to go to therapy and the answer 'to talk and work through some problems' would not suffice with them, they would want to know what the problems are etc, and saying DEALING WITH YOU, wouldnt exactly work.

wow, it's totally not at all messed up for a grown woman to be taking money from her parents and being controlled with them. in fact it sounds totally normal. you go girl!

[cache]

Seriously...if memory serves, her parents are paying for Lasik, because it's their fault for damaging her with their faulty eye genes. Too bad they can't pay for therapy, since it's their fault for damaging her with their piss poor parenting. I'd say that crystal clear vision is FAR more important than, I don't know, being a functional human being.

Holy laying it on thick!

[yankeeyosh]

I dont' know anymore...I'm tired of making enemies.

[red]

Red---I dont doubt that you went through that, but I dont think that its how it happens for everyone. Sure for some people its a major struggle and hassle for others they function with it and know how to handle it.
No two relationships are the same.

well, considering how well your whole investment property thing went, it sounds like you really "know how to handle it"

no one could have seen that one coming!

[Ciderhillnh]

Im not taking money from my parents.....they dont help with bills, or any of my expenses, and they havent helped since I was about 18.

They offered to do the LASIK as a gift, and the running JOKE is that their genes are why I have bad eyes....

The fact is Ive talked about LASIK for years, and for them thats easy to do because its a one time thing and its over and my eyes are repaired.

Telling my parents I need their help to spend money on therapy and not tell them why.....first off they wont just give me money for something like that and second if I tell them its to help deal with them as parents, they certainly arent going to be helpful in paying for that.

And the investment property......thats due to the economy and crappy roommates. They didnt get the condo to then have to put me out on the street, and they never tell me what to do when living there (I have people come and go, sleep over, I come and go as I please etc....hell I think its been 8 or 10 months since my parents set foot in the place.......)

If the economy was better, it wouldnt be as big a deal.

[kitalyn414]

If the economy was better, it wouldnt be as big a deal.
oh... my... god. **headdesk**

[yankeeyosh]

If the economy was better, it wouldnt be as big a deal.

This is an impartial question...not to judge. But you said the other week that the boston economy is very good. Now, I disagreed with you on that at the time. But here, you say the economy isn't so good. What gives?

[cache]

No.....

No....

Breathe.....

Resist.....the.....urge.....to......respond.

New episodes aren't supposed to be on until next week anyways, what's going on?

[Ciderhillnh]

Job market....GOOD.

Real Estate---BAD very very BAD in Boston right now

[tina1979]

No.....

No....

Breathe.....

Resist.....the.....urge.....to......respond.

New episodes aren't supposed to be on until next week anyways, what's going on?
double header :evil:

[weary]

No.....

No....

Breathe.....

Resist.....the.....urge.....to......respond.

New episodes aren't supposed to be on until next week anyways, what's going on?
syndication.

she's always off...er, i mean "on". ;) :p

[tina1979]

they always play a rerun after the new show..

[blueyes]

Hold up, hold up - I just have to wade in...

Cider, haven't you ever heard of someone having to have a LASIK procedure more than once? Sometimes, it doesn't always work correctly - therefore, your statement that it's a one time fee (Christ, that sounds like a fucking bank statement) is in error.

Also, whatever your insurance is sucks. A good number of insurance companies will cover - at minimum - ten psychological appointments per year with co-pay. I'd go to my employer and ask for an explanation of why my benefits were crap and what I could do to supplement them to obtain the services I required.

But, hey - that's just me.

[Ciderhillnh]

As explained in the LASIK thread, and others have the same contract with their doctors;
yes sometimes they have to go back in and do the LASIK again, but the doctor Im going with will go back in and do it again as needed as part of the LASIK Package I have.

So the statement is still correct....one time fee includes LASIK and any follow up surgeries needed. But good way to split hairs there.

Yes I agree my insurance sucks, I say that every time I go to the doctor, a specialist, or the dentist or the eye doctor. They dont cover sh*t.

The reason our benefits SUCK is that they decided to go with the cheapest plan to cover all of the employees under our national company, they make the decisions, and we just have to elect our benefits.
I have the TOP coverage and it still sucks donkey balls.

BUt there is little my company can do about it. Parent comapny decides and thats it. No contesting or pleading for more coverage, its tough sh*t.
I tried working with them about my doctors visits etc, no go. Spent a few HOURS on the phone with various people and departments AT the insurance company, no one gave answers or helped.

SO I paid the HUGE bill out of pocket and moved on.

[coll214]

No.....

No....

Breathe.....

Resist.....the.....urge.....to......respond.

New episodes aren't supposed to be on until next week anyways, what's going on?
BEST.RESPONSE.EVER!! LMAO :D. I actually did at that one!!

[blueyes]

then get supplemental insurance and get over it.

[embrassezla]

BLUEYES. You too. Come to the dark side. We have movies here!

[Ciderhillnh]

Its not worth it to pay for supplemental insurance, I dont need it THAT often where it financially makes sense.

Occasionally I have a specialist I need to see, sometimes they cover, other times I get bills for hundreds for going to the appointment. I contest and fight and am told sucks to be you pay.

Anyway.....my insurance sucks.

Anything else anyone wants to pick apart, make fun of or giggle about?

[wordsmith]

Well, you didn't seem happy with no responses, either.

[Ciderhillnh]

People can respond without being nasty, mean, making fun of, attacking etc.

[blueyes]

Cider - get over yourself. Nearly everyone who has chimed in on your myriad of posts has initially tried to be cooperative/helpful/critiquing in a positive manner. Your replies have stonewalled practically every ounce of advice/assistance/suggestions any of us have offered, with what is quite often self-contradictory information. If the majority of the board has reverted to child-like mockeries, you'll have to make your peace with a resounding lack of apologies to you when you seemed shocked that some of us have stooped to the level of being "nasty, mean, making fun of, attacking etc". We're kind of over you.

And just as a point - none of my own personal statements were "nasty, mean, making fun of, attacking etc" - I was just playing Devil's Advocate for you and pointing out the oh-so-obvious.

[AshleyJordan]

This also begs the question-- if we're so horrible and unhelpful and mean, why would someone keep asking us for advice?

[wordsmith]

Neg attention=better than no attention? I'm thinking that's the rationale.

[meatwad]

Neg attention=better than no attention? I'm thinking that's the rationale.

Or else it gets the hose again.

[cache]

People can respond without being nasty, mean, making fun of, attacking etc.
Ever heard that saying "there is a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path?

According to you, you have a fantastic relationship with friends and BF, but you can't handle your parents. You have received 38 job offers but still are self-described as working far below where you should be. Your parents pay for $4000 surgery and a $500K house, but they won't help with any of your other finances. The list goes on and on.

You know the path. You know every rock and rut in the path. But your constant contradictions tell me that you don't walk the path. People who walk the path show consistency. If you have a certain strength, it shows throughout your life. If you have a weakness, it may touch everything. The only consistent thing about you is your inconsistency. In fact, your response to this post will be something like "How am I inconsistent?" And then you will proceed to explain on a point by point basis each item I mentioned above.

Several months ago, I defended you. But when your posts, even in a very short period of time, became very questionable, I could no longer justify it. So, now, it is just for entertainment value that I read your posts.

Most other people on here I accept as genuine, honest people all working through the good and bad times, and I'm glad to be a part of this community. But for the life of me, I can't make sense of anything you say anymore. So in an effort to get you to understand how absurd you sound to me (and I;m sure others), I take my sarcastic, sometimes less than encouraging tone and throw it at you. Perhaps the way my posts sound to you is how your posts sound to me.

[Ciderhillnh]

If you are going to take facts to make an argument you should make sure you UNDERSTAND them and their time-lines.

Yes I have received about 38 job offers....IN MY ENTIRE TIME OF JOB HUNTING AND HAVING A CAREER. We are talking about a 5 year SPAN here, not 6 months or even a year.
I am working far below my potential, my earning potential based on the experience I have and the degree I received.

As for my parents 'paying' for things. They offered to do the surgery because they know if I were to save for it myself, either A) Id never be able to get it done or B) it wouldnt be until I was in my 30s or 40s.
They dont want me to have to wait that long AND......they came into some extra money due to some savvy investments in the stock market. A year ago, this wasnt even on the table for discussion, they knew I was interested in LASIK and was looking into it more than just general interest but there was no mention of help to pay for it UNTIL they got the good return on the investment.

As for the condo, they didnt just BUY it and hand it over to me to dwell in and enjoy. It was a BUSINESS deal where I was also going to be responsible for the mortgage payment (with a roommate) and we would sell when I was around 28 or 30 making it a 5 year medium turn investment.
Due to crappy roommates, and the real estate market being crappy, it didnt work out for the 5 year goal....which sometimes happens in investments, and when you see an investment going sour, you try to get out in the best way possible (which sometimes includes a loss its part of the risk in making an investment ANYWHERE)

So yes they have contributed to a few things, BUT if I were to say get in a car accident and incur hospital bills, they would NOT help with those. Lets say that I couldnt make rent or pay my electric because I didnt budget well enough, they would let me sit in the dark, because to them ITS MY FAULT for not budgeting.

They dont hand over $20 for gas and groceries when I visit. They dont buy little things for me just because.......to them finances are my own responsibility which is why I have a job.
Should I lose my job for whatever reason, again they will NOT help me make my bills, they would say I should have planned ahead so that I have some cushion 'just in case' fund to take care of me in those times of need.

So I dont think LASIK or the condo are their PAYING for things, the condo was an investment for them as well, and the LASIK was just timing.

There are many contradictions in my life, maybe that makes it seem that Im inconsistant....I dont know, but I try my best on here to describe and give facts and information pertaining to each situation so that people here have an idea of what is going on (of course its easier in person or on the phone but thats not how a message board works)

As for my friends and BF.....I have great friends who I love very much and I know would help take care of me in times of need, they have told me this and have come through on several occasions.
My BF and I might not operate like everyone else in this world, but there is no rule book. Is there room for improvement? Sure, but thats true in any relationship, even the best ones.