How much experience do you need...

[Jersey_Steve]

... until you can consider yourself no longer "unexperienced"?

Pretty much, I've been working at my job a year now (it's my first one out of college), and I'm looking to move onward and upwards. I've done a bit of everything: engineering, advertising, sales, wheeling around the invalid owner in his wheelchair. But, I've really been working on the computer side of the company: installing new hardware and software, maintaining the server, redesigned the website, lot of IT repairing. Stuff like that, and I feel like I'm pretty experienced now.

However, I remember going on interviews before my job and it's the good old "we like your resume, but you have no experience" bullshit. I'm wondering, do I have enough experience now? How much do I need? One year? Two years? Five years?

How much does it take to get a nice, decent, non-entry-level job?

[winneythepooh7]

It really just depends. I will have been working in the human services field for 10 years next year. However, I've not worked with every population out there, so therefore, I would be given the ax for many populations I may decide to apply for, or have to start in a more entry-level position. I haven't really worked with children before, so even though I am a supervisor at my current place of employment with disabled adults, I know darn well I wouldn't be a supervisor at a children's services agency. Does this make sense to what you are asking?

[Jersey_Steve]

It really just depends. I will have been working in the human services field for 10 years next year. However, I've not worked with every population out there, so therefore, I would be given the ax for many populations I may decide to apply for, or have to start in a more entry-level position. I haven't really worked with children before, so even though I am a supervisor at my current place of employment with disabled adults, I know darn well I wouldn't be a supervisor at a children's services agency. Does this make sense to what you are asking?

It does. Then let me reword my question. How much relevant experience does it take to no longer be considered entry-level in a field?

[Kitty]

3 years.

[yankeeyosh]

It's hard to say...there are people who are in non-entry level jobs the second they are out the college gates, there are those who advance quickly, and there are others who are eight or ten years into their career and can't get out of entry level because of poor luck and other reasons. To put a number down is very dangerous.

[PeakDream]

I would also suggest taking a look at what jobs you are targeting and how you are representing yourself on resume and in interviews. As you say, you have one year experience, in all honestly, that's really not that much. Especially if you show them you doing everything from sending mails to computers, people would simply consider yourself as a runner.In IT field, 3 to 5 years are standard benchmark for "experience".

[teeny]

i'd say around 3 years as well. Even though i'm not learning things as fast as I did the first year, people will respect and trust you much more the longer you've been doing something. Not that you can't always move up- i was promoted after my first year.

[winneythepooh7]

I still really think it depends on the field, as well. I know in human services, especially if you don't have a Master's, 3 years is still considered pretty entry-level.

And I know that many people even with that, aren't qualified for certain other positions, like agency director, state program director, etc. etc. etc.

I also have never sat for my licensing exam because I don't want to do clinical social work/therapy. So I would not be qualified for many other positions because of that reason.

[yankeeyosh]

Here's my question...what would you consider "entry level"? Is that simply "non-managerial"? I think you can be in a non-management position and not be entry level. I think that managerial positions, for the most part, are at least two...possibly three levels above entry level.

[winneythepooh7]

Here's my question...what would you consider "entry level"? Is that simply "non-managerial"? I think you can be in a non-management position and not be entry level. I think that managerial positions, for the most part, are at least two...possibly three levels above entry level.

Well, for my field, I think MSW with at least 1-2 years experience post MSW is not entry-level. It's hard to make a good call though because there are Master's level Social Workers these days who've never worked a day in their life and their first "professinal" job is after they get their Master's. I agree with what you originally said Mark, about how putting a "number" on this is dangerous.

I have so many people apply to non-entry level positions where I work as well, because in their mind, "any old job" they worked at is considered "working experience in X, Y, Z needed for this position" to them, and well, it just is not for certain positions. Does this make sense?

[CTGirl]

Yeah, like the others said, there are a lot of factors involved in deciding that - what field you're in, what degrees you have, how good you are at what you do, etc.

If you're a wiz at the work you do, you can excel through entry level stuff really quickly, same can go for if you have a high-level degree in that field.

For example, in my company, I started there in November and I'm already far past the entry-level stuff because I have a Master's degree and I know what I'm doing. Meanwhile, there are people who have been there nearly a year who are still doing what you might consider entry-level stuff because they dont have the degree.

[Jersey_Steve]

Here's my question...what would you consider "entry level"? Is that simply "non-managerial"? I think you can be in a non-management position and not be entry level. I think that managerial positions, for the most part, are at least two...possibly three levels above entry level.

Let's see... for me, not entry level would be making more than 29k a year (seriously, how pathetic is that?), not having my bosses repeat themselves every time they tell me to do something (it's a fax, I know how to write one), being trusted to do the job (I can't fix the server if you don't give me the password!).

All in all, not being treated as a child I think. But I'd like to be making 40k like most college grads. That'd be nice.

[winneythepooh7]

I don't want to burst your bubble or anything, but certainly not all college grads make $4OK. I started that when I got my Master's.

[Jersey_Steve]

I don't want to burst your bubble or anything, but certainly not all college grads make $4OK. I started that when I got my Master's.

I know they don't because I'm not making 40k. However, most of my friends are making 40 and they graduated same time as me. In fact, one of my friends was bitching because his raise only brought him to 43 and he was expecting 48. Honestly, for Northern New Jersey, 40 a year is the norm.

I have so many people apply to non-entry level positions where I work as well, because in their mind, "any old job" they worked at is considered "working experience in X, Y, Z needed for this position" to them, and well, it just is not for certain positions. Does this make sense?

Soo... experience is experience except when it isn't experience? Sorry winney, I don't buy it. One of things I did was be the Advertising Coordinator (and I still do it at times), but according to you, that doesn't count as experience if I was to apply to an advertising job. I do the job, I get the experience, therefore it counts. Granted, it's not a lot of experience, but it's still experience.

[CTGirl]

Soo... experience is experience except when it isn't experience? Sorry winney, I don't buy it. One of things I did was be the Advertising Coordinator (and I still do it at times), but according to you, that doesn't count as experience if I was to apply to an advertising job. I do the job, I get the experience, therefore it counts. Granted, it's not a lot of experience, but it's still experience.

No need to get your panties all in a bunch now. If you have all this experience, then why dont your employers trust you enough with the work that you do?

I dont know you, but I can say that regardless of what one's resume and credentials look like, one can often still be treated as "entry-level" if one acts "entry-level"

[yankeeyosh]

Well, for my field, I think MSW with at least 1-2 years experience post MSW is not entry-level. It's hard to make a good call though because there are Master's level Social Workers these days who've never worked a day in their life and their first "professinal" job is after they get their Master's. I agree with what you originally said Mark, about how putting a "number" on this is dangerous.

I have so many people apply to non-entry level positions where I work as well, because in their mind, "any old job" they worked at is considered "working experience in X, Y, Z needed for this position" to them, and well, it just is not for certain positions. Does this make sense?

Right...I would suppose that the first year of a career is entry level. But if skills can be readily transferrable, you need not start at that level if you are changing fields.

[yankeeyosh]

I know they don't because I'm not making 40k. However, most of my friends are making 40 and they graduated same time as me. In fact, one of my friends was bitching because his raise only brought him to 43 and he was expecting 48. Honestly, for Northern New Jersey, 40 a year is the norm.



Ugh...here we go again. First of all, are your friends in the same field? I don't know what industry you are in, but there are different pay scales for different fields. Second of all, I hate to use the 'E' word, but your friend should learn that pay raises are rarely more than 5-7% in most companies. I would assume he was making ~41K. A 48K salary would mean a 17% pay raise...which is virtually unheard of. Your salary for North Jersey, admittedly, isn't that great, and I know what you're going through...I was making 26K in Long Island when I started working in 00...a year when many of my cohorts were getting that in signing bonuses. But sometimes, that's the price you have to pay to work in a certain industry. There are people here on these very boards who are making less than that, and have been in their fields for years and years...and they are defiinitely not entry level.

[nikorock28]

Why do people think they can move onwards and upwards just because they have worked for one year? If you cannot live on 29k a year I suggest you move to a lower cost-of-living area.

[winneythepooh7]

Soo... experience is experience except when it isn't experience? Sorry winney, I don't buy it. One of things I did was be the Advertising Coordinator (and I still do it at times), but according to you, that doesn't count as experience if I was to apply to an advertising job. I do the job, I get the experience, therefore it counts. Granted, it's not a lot of experience, but it's still experience.


You don't have to "buy it". I also don't work in advertising, I am telling you how it is in my field. If someone doesn't have X, Y, Z experience and credentials, they are probably not going to get hired. And it's not me who makes these rules. It's my industry, and for good reason.

[winneythepooh7]

Why do people think they can move onwards and upwards just because they have worked for one year? If you cannot live on 29k a year I suggest you move to a lower cost-of-living area.

I agree with your first point, however, it's not always that easy for people to just "up and move" to an area with a lower COL. I can't move because my fiance's business that he owns is here. Also, I am making somewhat on the higher end of what Social Worker's usually make. If I move elsewhere either 1.) I will have to take like a $25,000 pay cut or 2.) I may not even be able to find a good job. I lived in an area with a lower COL and moved to NYC because good jobs just didn't exist there.

[nikorock28]

I agree with your first point, however, it's not always that easy for people to just "up and move" to an area with a lower COL. I can't move because my fiance's business that he owns is here. Also, I am making somewhat on the higher end of what Social Worker's usually make. If I move elsewhere either 1.) I will have to take like a $25,000 pay cut or 2.) I may not even be able to find a good job. I lived in an area with a lower COL and moved to NYC because good jobs just didn't exist there.

I know it is not easy to relocate. However, there are many cities that are cheaper to live than NYC and also have many job opportunities. Moving to one of these cities could be an option, or at least a consideration.

[winneythepooh7]

I know it is not easy to relocate. However, there are many cities that are cheaper to live than NYC and also have many job opportunities. Moving to one of these cities could be an option, or at least a consideration.

Well, maybe that is useful advice for someone else, but as for me, well, I'm not moving anytime soon.

[nikorock28]

Well, maybe that is useful advice for someone else, but as for me, well, I'm not moving anytime soon.

Yes yes, I know. Not for you, but in general... and specifically the OP if it applies.

[Jersey_Steve]

Why do people think they can move onwards and upwards just because they have worked for one year? If you cannot live on 29k a year I suggest you move to a lower cost-of-living area.

I would love to move out of Jersey. It's sick, everything is disgustingly expensive. The run-down house next to mine is selling for 410, and taxes are 7 a year. I just don't know where to go, that would have high quality of life with low cost of living. Yes, I realize they go hand-in-hand. I dunno where I would go though... I am kinda attached to my family, friends, and relatives.

No need to get your panties all in a bunch now. If you have all this experience, then why dont your employers trust you enough with the work that you do?

That's an easy one. My company is small, and they've had a single all-encompassing "computer guy" for the last 20 years. Now he's gone off to college for some reason, and he comes in once every other week. However, management reveres him as a God. So if I try to handle a computer task, I'll have about 5 seconds to complete it. Even if I get it right, I'm told how the other guy would have handled it so much better.

I dont know you, but I can say that regardless of what one's resume and credentials look like, one can often still be treated as "entry-level" if one acts "entry-level"

Excuse me? Last I checked, entry-level is not a state of mind. I do my job, and I do my job well. All I am asking from my bosses is not to be treated like I belong on the short bus.

[PeakDream]

Steve, do you have a college degree with major in computer science or related field? Are you trying to stay in the IT field? 29K a year is definitely low by the metro area standard, unless of course you work for a mom and pop shop. If you are serious about making more money, then I suggest suck it up and get a job as entry-level in a medium to large company that should give you around 35K to 40K a year. In about two years, you will be making good money. I know it sucks, but sometimes, you just have to do it.

[Jersey_Steve]

Steve, do you have a college degree with major in computer science or related field? Are you trying to stay in the IT field? 29K a year is definitely low by the metro area standard, unless of course you work for a mom and pop shop. If you are serious about making more money, then I suggest suck it up and get a job as entry-level in a medium to large company that should give you around 35K to 40K a year. In about two years, you will be making good money. I know it sucks, but sometimes, you just have to do it.

Yea, I have a BS in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction aka Usability) from one of the better tech colleges on the East Coast (NJIT).

I do work in a "mom-and-pop" type place. At least, as far as the nepotism goes. Old man owns the place, the nephew is the heir-appearent, step-son is a manager. It's not too bad of a place, they generally give me free reign to do what I need to do and the people are decent enough. I just hate making so little.

[nikorock28]

Yea, I have a BS in HCI (Human-Computer Interaction aka Usability) from one of the better tech colleges on the East Coast (NJIT).

I do work in a "mom-and-pop" type place. At least, as far as the nepotism goes. Old man owns the place, the nephew is the heir-appearent, step-son is a manager. It's not too bad of a place, they generally give me free reign to do what I need to do and the people are decent enough. I just hate making so little.

Have you tried looking/applying for entry level positions that pay more? I don't think one year is enough experience to apply for non-entry level positions. Sometimes, people get great positions with such little experience, but I think that is the exception and not the rule. It looks like moving is not the best option since you have a good support system where you are now.

[Jersey_Steve]

Have you tried looking/applying for entry level positions that pay more? I don't think one year is enough experience to apply for non-entry level positions. Sometimes, people get great positions with such little experience, but I think that is the exception and not the rule. It looks like moving is not the best option since you have a good support system where you are now.

I've been looking... but I can't find any entry-level usability positions and the entry-level stuff I do find isn't much better. Seeing as how tomorrow is my 1-year anniversary at the company, perhaps later in the week I'll go talk to my boss about how I've grown and crap and deserve more money.

[playingbyheart]

... until you can consider yourself no longer "unexperienced"?

Pretty much, I've been working at my job a year now (it's my first one out of college), and I'm looking to move onward and upwards. I've done a bit of everything: engineering, advertising, sales, wheeling around the invalid owner in his wheelchair. But, I've really been working on the computer side of the company: installing new hardware and software, maintaining the server, redesigned the website, lot of IT repairing. Stuff like that, and I feel like I'm pretty experienced now.

However, I remember going on interviews before my job and it's the good old "we like your resume, but you have no experience" bullshit. I'm wondering, do I have enough experience now? How much do I need? One year? Two years? Five years?

How much does it take to get a nice, decent, non-entry-level job?

Sadly, "entry-level" really means 1-2 years of experience.

So you're about ready for an "entry-level" position. All of the experience you have been gaining is "pre-entry-level" experience according to most industries.

[and1grad]

There's a "pre-entry level"? I thought that just meant "unemployed."