Grammar, punctuation

[BadKitty]

So, one of the things I’d like to do more of when I relocate is grant-writing (plus, I love languages, and perfecting my knowledge of them - that may not be very evident by my ramblings here on these boards :) ). My grammar and punctuation skills are a tad rusty.

I found a website with tests, and I did well. However, the site was for British English and the rules were more formal and outdated – especially the punctuation ones.

Is anyone aware of a website that can help me rehash basic grammar/punctuation rules (nothing too detailed).

It wouldn’t hurt if there are websites that help with writing overall.

Thanks

[PenforPrez]

My personal recommendation would actually be a book, specifically the Turabian Style Guide.

Paul

[Kitty]

My recommendation is also a book: The Elements of Style by William Strunk, Jr.

[wordsmith]

A second for Strunk and White's Elements of Style. Bonus is that it's short and to the point.

But definitely books over 'net, which isn't remotely regulated.

[BadKitty]

A second for Strunk and White's Elements of Style. Bonus is that it's short and to the point.

But definitely books over 'net, which isn't remotely regulated.

Yeah, short and to the point is what I want. Thanks.

[CityGal]

Also agree with the Elements book. Read it for a writing class and it was so helpful. Diane Hacker's book is good as well. She has a fun website you can play with. Have you thought about taking a class?

I also have a love of languages but my writing skills are a bit on the below average side--at least I think so. What I am doing to improve that is taking basic writing classes.

[BadKitty]

Also agree with the Elements book. Read it for a writing class and it was so helpful. Diane Hacker's book is good as well. She has a fun website you can play with. Have you thought about taking a class?

I also have a love of languages but my writing skills are a bit on the below average side--at least I think so. What I am doing to improve that is taking basic writing classes.

Yeah, I've had a class in college, but just wanted to rehash what I knew. I like the website you mentioned - that's exactly what I need - something hands on. I'll also get the book.

I am thinking about taking a creative writing course, but that would be much later, because there are other things I'd like to do first.

As far as your writing skills are concerned, you're probably too harsh on yourself. :)

[wordsmith]

Also agree with the Elements book. Read it for a writing class and it was so helpful. Diane Hacker's book is good as well. She has a fun website you can play with. Have you thought about taking a class?


There's a Hacker website??? Awesome.

When I was in undergrad, every freshman was required to own "The Holy Hacker," because so many kids were coming from high school not really able to write at the collegiate level, and my alma mater had a Writing Across the Curriculum requirement (i.e. loads of papers for all, not just the humanities majors). It IS a really good, user-friendly, easy-use grammar, punctuation and style reference. I loaned mine out to somebody post-college, unfortuantely, and never got it back.

[BadKitty]

There's a Hacker website??? Awesome.

When I was in undergrad, every freshman was required to own "The Holy Hacker," because so many kids were coming from high school not really able to write at the collegiate level, and my alma mater had a Writing Across the Curriculum requirement (i.e. loads of papers for all, not just the humanities majors). It IS a really good, user-friendly, easy-use grammar, punctuation and style reference. I loaned mine out to somebody post-college, unfortuantely, and never got it back.

Sound like exactly what I need. The writing proficiency problem seems pretty common (back home and here).

[wordsmith]

Sound like exactly what I need. The writing proficiency problem seems pretty common (back home and here).

Having been trained to teach writing, I can vouch for this. It's largely traceable to a decline in reading habits. Generally, if you read a lot, it follows that you write fairly well. Most kids who write atrociously are not readers.

[CityGal]

There's a Hacker website??? Awesome.

When I was in undergrad, every freshman was required to own "The Holy Hacker," because so many kids were coming from high school not really able to write at the collegiate level, and my alma mater had a Writing Across the Curriculum requirement (i.e. loads of papers for all, not just the humanities majors). It IS a really good, user-friendly, easy-use grammar, punctuation and style reference. I loaned mine out to somebody post-college, unfortuantely, and never got it back.

Yup, Hacker is online. They have pretty good excercises.

[BadKitty]

Having been trained to teach writing, I can vouch for this. It's largely traceable to a decline in reading habits. Generally, if you read a lot, it follows that you write fairly well. Most kids who write atrociously are not readers.

That is very true. In college, I would often see people who would start reading for a simple class, and they were so unused to the reading process, that they would start dozing off 15 minutes into the chapter. I mean they weren’t hung over or tired. They just couldn’t follow.

[wordsmith]

That is very true. In college, I would often see people who would start reading for a simple class, and they were so unused to the reading process, that they would start dozing off 15 minutes into the chapter. I mean they weren’t hung over or tired. They just couldn’t follow.

More telling for me was people, at the collegiate level, even, who couldn't actually discuss, analyze, or reflect on any of the content, because they treated the reading as an exercise in speed-reading, something to be plowed through in as short an amount of time possible, and retained nothing...not so good when called upon to exhibit comprehension, not so good at all. When I worked in the English department's writing center, I'd get people who'd come in for help, stumped on how to even start a paper, and it was amazing how many were stuck because they hadn't retained any of what they read. It's tough to write a reflection paper on the reading when you didn't actually absorb any of the ideas, just dashed through words on a page, I guess, and therefore have no thoughts on it. I can't tell you how many times I heard, "Well, yeah, I read the book," and when asked, "Well, what ideas did you get out of ___?" to be met with blank looks and shrugs. You wouldn't think it would be possible to reach the college level and not understand how to extract ideas from reading material.

[BadKitty]

More telling for me was people, at the collegiate level, even, who couldn't actually discuss, analyze, or reflect on any of the content, because they treated the reading as an exercise in speed-reading, something to be plowed through in as short an amount of time possible, and retained nothing...not so good when called upon to exhibit comprehension, not so good at all. When I worked in the English department's writing center, I'd get people who'd come in for help, stumped on how to even start a paper, and it was amazing how many were stuck because they hadn't retained any of what they read. It's tough to write a reflection paper on the reading when you didn't actually absorb any of the ideas, just dashed through words on a page, I guess, and therefore have no thoughts on it. I can't tell you how many times I heard, "Well, yeah, I read the book," and when asked, "Well, what ideas did you get out of ___?" to be met with blank looks and shrugs. You wouldn't think it would be possible to reach the college level and not understand how to extract ideas from reading material.

Oh, wow! I am kind of worried, because I’ve gotten kind of lazy after college. I’ve noticed that sometimes when I read a book, I would read words and entire sentences out loud – so that I can grasp them better. It all started as a way to work on my enunciation. Now I sometimes do it to grasp the content better. That’s probably bad, huh? Like these people that move their lips when they read?

P.S. If you want to you can clean your mail box.

[wordsmith]

I think a fair amount of time people do know how but don't want to spend the time on the reading. I did that from time to time at school. Not generally on stuff I'd have to recall, though. Just random cram right before class stuff.

Believe me, I got through most of my nonliterature-related gen eds by scanning dry texts that I knew I wasn't really going to be expected to pontificate upon at any point. But something you KNOW you're going to be called upon to process and write extensive papers on, stuff where you know there is imminent grilling, stuff you know you can't BS your way through? Y'gotta do something more than just stare at the pages, flipping them occasionally, and hope it sinks in osmotically.

[wordsmith]

I agree, but there are a ton of people who don't make good decisions out there, and, as I said, some times it's a choice, not a lack of training.

I think it's really mainly just not having been accustomed to close reading, to be honest. If you've never had to do that, and never been that into reading as a personal diversion, either, it's not gonna come naturally.

[BadKitty]

I think it's really mainly just not having been accustomed to close reading, to be honest. If you've never had to do that, and never been that into reading as a personal diversion, either, it's not gonna come naturally.

Yeah, I agree.

[Skyblade]

FYI...you can get Elements of Style for free online. I actually took a grant writing class and they recommended brushing on your grammar/punctuation with Elements of Style.

Here you go: http://www.bartleby.com/141/index.html

[BadKitty]

FYI...you can get Elements of Style for free online. I actually took a grant writing class and they recommended brushing on your grammar/punctuation with Elements of Style.

Here you go: http://www.bartleby.com/141/index.html

Awsome. Thank you so much!

[wordsmith]

And to think, I blew three bucks on it in college! :D

[BadKitty]

And to think, I blew three bucks on it in college! :D

Hey, the beer fund is nothing to joke about :D

[Kitty]

I don't understand how someone could lack thoughts on the material they read. Even really dry material, I can bull shit something if need be, but most novels you read in college are fairly interesting and should at least stir a few thoughts to the surface.

[wordsmith]

I don't understand how someone could lack thoughts on the material they read. Even really dry material, I can bull shit something if need be, but most novels you read in college are fairly interesting and should at least stir a few thoughts to the surface.

I'm the same...even if my assigned reading wasn't especially engaging (thinking more along the lines of educational psych case studies and stats that then had to be condensed into a position paper on standardized testing, and the like...I never had issues with any of the stuff in my English major), I still didn't sleepwalk through it. For the stuff that was really difficult to stay engaged in, I forced myself to get through it by intensive note-taking, paragraph by paragraph if that's what it took to keep my mind from wandering. You really do have to learn the tricks of the trade as a serious student. I wanted to crack skulls everytime I got some yahoo wandering into the writing center and wanting me to write a paper FOR them.

[BadKitty]

[QUOTE=Kitty]I don't understand how someone could lack thoughts on the material they read. Even really dry material, I can bull shit something if need beQUOTE]

Some people are very... um... untalented.... in that area. fewer brain cells and all.

[Kitty]

I'm the same...even if my assigned reading wasn't especially engaging (thinking more along the lines of educational psych case studies and stats that then had to be condensed into a position paper on standardized testing, and the like...I never had issues with any of the stuff in my English major), I still didn't sleepwalk through it. For the stuff that was really difficult to stay engaged in, I forced myself to get through it by intensive note-taking, paragraph by paragraph if that's what it took to keep my mind from wandering. You really do have to learn the tricks of the trade as a serious student. I wanted to crack skulls everytime I got some yahoo wandering into the writing center and wanting me to write a paper FOR them.

That's kind of how my brother is. He has a million good ideas and lots of thoughts on the stuff he reads, but he cannot for the life of him translate his thoughts into words on a page. He'll just sit there and stare blankly at the paper and say stuff like, "I can't figure out how to start or what to write." DRIVES ME NUTS. just write SOMETHING..start the juices flowing! You can always go back and edit later.

[wordsmith]

Yeah, can't identify with it at all. I don't know that it's even possible for me to be at a loss for words.

[embrassezla]

I don't know that it's even possible for me to be at a loss for words.
Certainly should such an unlikely event occur, your QLC persona would spontaneously e-combust.

[wordsmith]

Certainly should such an unlikely event occur, your QLC persona would spontaneously e-combust.

Which is not to say that certain posts have not come close to rendering me speechless. :rolleyes:

[yankeeyosh]

I don't understand how someone could lack thoughts on the material they read. Even really dry material, I can bull shit something if need be, but most novels you read in college are fairly interesting and should at least stir a few thoughts to the surface.

People with Asperger's Syndrome often have an incredibly difficult time comprehending what they read. On the SAT/GRE, for instance, I did very well in vocabulary/analogies, but my reading comprehension was only average to perhaps slightly below average. And many times, I cannot fully understand what people post on QLC.

[BadKitty]

People with Asperger's Syndrome often have an incredibly difficult time comprehending what they read. On the SAT/GRE, for instance, I did very well in vocabulary/analogies, but my reading comprehension was only average to perhaps slightly below average. And many times, I cannot fully understand what people post on QLC.

Yankee,

I've heard about the syndrome, but never really knew anything about it. what is it?

[yankeeyosh]

Yankee,

I've heard about the syndrome, but never really knew anything about it. what is it?

I don't have much time to explain it, but this should help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

More or less, it's a mild form of autism that mostly affects communication skills.