Severely obese children

[Ciderhillnh]

This morning on the Today show they spoke about how child protective services is now taking on obese children citing that in most cases the parents are to blame.

The case shown was in England, an 8 year old weighs 190lbs (nearly 4 TIMES that of an average 8 year old) and is given a snack every 20 minutes.


He refuses to eat veggies or anything healthy and his mother complies.

Child protective services had removed the child but since placed him back in his home.

So I bring the topic here.
Do you think parents with severely obese children are to blame for the childs weight (outside of medical reasons why the child is overweight)?

Should child protective services deem this as abuse and remove the child from the home?

Any insight as to why this is NOW a problem in our society (never seemed to be something that occurred previously)…..is it because most of our activities now take place indoors (video games, internet, etc)?

[Jersey_Steve]

People are forgetting what it means to be a parent. Parents are more worried about their child having a negative impression of them that they cater to their child's every whim.

You tell a child to look both ways before crossing a street, and you get mad at them if they don't. Eventually, they'll look both ways. Same thing with food. You tell them no, you wait out the screaming, and you tell them no again.

Of course, parents have it hard because the food industry spends billions on creating shiny boxes and glittery commercials to entice kids to eat their sugary products. Plus parents are more busy, trying to do everything at the same time, so fast food has become the easy meal. Fast food, for anyone not from this planet, is the absolute last thing you ever want to put into your body at any time.

We live in a time when junk food is cheaper than healthy food, which only compounds the problem. I can go into a store and get 2 big bags of chips for 5 dollars, but a smaller, single bag of apples will cost me the same amount.

So I'm conflicted. I feel is the parent's responsibility to ensure their kids are eating properly, but so rarely do they have any choice in the matter. With advertising and price working against the parent on so many levels, who to say we really can blame them?

However, I am not a parent, so I'm not exactly qualified to say. I'm sure we have a few moms and dads in the audience willing to shed some light.

[WorkInProgress]

Do you think parents with severely obese children are to blame for the childs weight (outside of medical reasons why the child is overweight)?

Should child protective services deem this as abuse and remove the child from the home?

Any insight as to why this is NOW a problem in our society (never seemed to be something that occurred previously)…..is it because most of our activities now take place indoors (video games, internet, etc)?

Question 1: Yes, I do, if it's not some sort of medical condition causing the weight gain/maintenance.

Question 2: I don't know. I'm very leery about being ok with the government taking people's kids from them (although some times it is clearly in the best interest of the child), but in the particular case you cited, being only a little familiar with it, I think it might be best.

Question 3: Maybe because people in general are more sedentary then they have been historically? Maybe because shit foods are cheap? Maybe because shit foods taste so good? Maybe because shit foods are easy? Maybe because a large number of parents don't know how to feed their kids apporpriately, or lack the time (or choose not to put the time in), or don't feel like fighting their kids over food?

[ScottyTheBody]

People are forgetting what it means to be a parent. Parents are more worried about their child having a negative impression of them that they cater to their child's every whim.

You tell a child to look both ways before crossing a street, and you get mad at them if they don't. Eventually, they'll look both ways. Same thing with food. You tell them no, you wait out the screaming, and you tell them no again.

Of course, parents have it hard because the food industry spends billions on creating shiny boxes and glittery commercials to entice kids to eat their sugary products. Plus parents are more busy, trying to do everything at the same time, so fast food has become the easy meal. Fast food, for anyone not from this planet, is the absolute last thing you ever want to put into your body at any time.

We live in a time when junk food is cheaper than healthy food, which only compounds the problem. I can go into a store and get 2 big bags of chips for 5 dollars, but a smaller, single bag of apples will cost me the same amount.

So I'm conflicted. I feel is the parent's responsibility to ensure their kids are eating properly, but so rarely do they have any choice in the matter. With advertising and price working against the parent on so many levels, who to say we really can blame them?

However, I am not a parent, so I'm not exactly qualified to say. I'm sure we have a few moms and dads in the audience willing to shed some light.

I'm not a parent but I think these are very good points.

[AshleyJordan]

This is an issue I'm starting to address at my job and I know from experience and from that of my colleagues that many low-income neighborhoods (like Harlem, where I lived for four-years,) simply do not have access to quality, fresh food. I had to bring my groceries home on the subway or via cab the entire time I lived there, unless I wanted to pay about twice as much for rotten vegetables and fast food. So, my point is that there are economic and racial factors at work.

There are entire neighborhoods with no open space for kids to play, with the exception of McDonald's playgrounds. Again, 9 times out of 10 these are poor communities of color.

Conversely, in the suburbs people often drive everywhere and have equally sedentary lives and are prone to obesity for an entirely different set of reasons.

Until these structural causes of childhood obesity (and, for that matter, adult obesity, hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, and Lord knows what else,) are addressed, it's a little hypocritical for the govt. to snatch obese kids away from their folks.

This is not, however, to say that there's no personal responsibility for those issues. For example, diabetes is very prevalant on both sides of my family. I was almost never allowed to eat sugar. Period. End of story. All of my friends' parents knew this, too, so they didn't serve soda when I visited. No dessert. Sure, at the time I might've felt a little deprived, but it sure beats the alternative (shooting insulin a couple times a day, or being in line for kidney failure, blindness, or a lost leg.) My parents may've "deprived" me from ice cream every night, but I think they did me a hell of a favor. :rolleyes:

[Ciderhillnh]

Your post brings me to a good question....

You point out how these children dont have access to fresh foods and survive on fast food, and that they dont have anywhere outside to play other than a McDonalds playground.

What exactly kept these kids thin before? If we are talking about Harlem.....the kids had to be doing something before that they arent doing now....what changed?

The kid in the report was a caucasion male.

[AshleyJordan]

Your post brings me to a good question....

You point out how these children dont have access to fresh foods and survive on fast food, and that they dont have anywhere outside to play other than a McDonalds playground.

What exactly kept these kids thin before? If we are talking about Harlem.....the kids had to be doing something before that they arent doing now....what changed?

The kid in the report was a caucasion male.

The McDonald's playground story was, I believe, Newark (I read a lot of this stuff during my urban planning grad school days.)

As I said in my post, I think there are probably equally serious, but different issues why this would affect middle-class whites. One big thing in common though is TV and/or PC's/gameboys as babysitters.

I'm assuming that before these kids ate home-cooked food, which, even if much of it some of it was fatty (soul food, or traditional Latino cuisine) was probably much better than fast food.

Also, kids used to be able to play in the streets/sidewalks becauseit wasn't considered unsafe for kids to play outside on your block. Parents might sit on the stoop or at a card table on the sidewalk to keep an eye on them. There was a better sense of community. Kids would run around and ride their bikes or play stickball or jump rope or hide and seek or whatever happy kids do. I'm not saying this is totally extinct, but it's certainly less prevalant than before. Google Jane Jacobs for more info on this idea.

[Winter Storm]

Do you think parents with severely obese children are to blame for the childs weight (outside of medical reasons why the child is overweight)?

Should child protective services deem this as abuse and remove the child from the home?

Any insight as to why this is NOW a problem in our society (never seemed to be something that occurred previously)…..is it because most of our activities now take place indoors (video games, internet, etc)?

Outside of any medical conditions and genetics, I think poor nutrition and lack of exercise may be blamed directly on the parent.

I wouldn't go as far as to call this abuse, but really poor parenting. Perhaps, CPS should intervene by providing education and support in the area but I'm fond of the idea of taking a child our of its home over this.

I think it is just lazy poor parenting. Less parents are actually cooking home-cooked, healthy meals for kids and relying too heavily on convenience foods nor are they encouraging outdoor play and exercise.

[and1grad]

I think taking the kid away is too extreme. Its also a good point about playing in the streets especially if you look at how neighborhoods are designed nowadays. Not as much of an option. You also need to take into account the rise in child predators, gang violence, and abductions. There's really a lot of reasons why children are fatter than before.

[embrassezla]

It is so unbelievably sad to me that there are children in this country who have nowhere to play but the McDonald's playground. Wow.

But seriously, McD's DOES have healthier stuff now, so I suppose the lack of education on healthy eating is the real problem.

[AshleyJordan]

I think taking the kid away is too extreme. Its also a good point about playing in the streets especially if you look at how neighborhoods are designed nowadays. Not as much of an option. You also need to take into account the rise in child predators, gang violence, and abductions. There's really a lot of reasons why children are fatter than before.

At least in NYC, there are so many community-based afterschool programs and youth athletic leagues and Y's and places like that which provide really great services to kids at low or no cost, that I really think there are viable alternatives to keeping your kids indoors. Even if I can afford to send my kid someplace "better," I think I'd want him/or her to take advantage of some of these YMCA type of programs because I think they're awesome and it provides socialization opportunities-- which is seriously just as important as physical fitness, IMHO.

[Ciderhillnh]

I dont think there are any more predators, or abductions now than there were before, we just hear about it more.
Statistically the same number of children are abducted each year for a long number of years.

But just because there is more violence etc I dont think that explains why children are more obese and its such an issue today.

[AshleyJordan]

I dont think there are any more predators, or abductions now than there were before, we just hear about it more.
Statistically the same number of children are abducted each year for a long number of years.

But just because there is more violence etc I dont think that explains why children are more obese and its such an issue today.

If you don't feel as safe in your neighborhood or as connected to your neighbors you are much less likely to want to run around and socialize outside. . .contributing to a sedentary lifestyle. There's nothing healthy about isolating yourself or your kids.

[Winter Storm]

There's really a lot of reasons why children are fatter than before.

Using my neice as an example (since she is heavier than we anticipated and bigger than we all were at her age) she had a 25 inch TV in her room at birth, a VCR by age 5, a Playstation shortly after, a DVD player before she hit her teens, not to mention all the other toys and electronic gadgets, why would she go outside?

Me, on the other hand, I had a large backyard with a big swingset and a tons of neighborhood friends to run around with playing Hide-n-Go-Seek, It's, Red Light Green Light, etc and McDonalds was reserved as a treat. Why would I stay in?

If the weather was warm, we were hot, running around getting dirty and sweaty til our parents called us in.

[embrassezla]

Me, on the other hand, I had a large backyard with a big swingset and a tons of neighborhood friends to run around with playing Hide-n-Go-Seek, It's, Red Light Green Light, etc and McDonalds was reserved as a treat. Why would I stay in? If the weather was warm, we were hot, running around getting dirty and sweaty til our parents called us in.
I KNOW! I remember being young and playing outside EVERY DAY after school, and it was always so much fun I hated to come inside. I feel bad for kids who don't experience that anymore, because they're plastered to the TV/playstation/whatever.

[Winter Storm]

But just because there is more violence etc I dont think that explains why children are more obese and its such an issue today.
I think the reason why there are more obese children today is because there are more obese adults and parents today. If the parents are eating junk and sitting on their ass, so will their kids.

[Winter Storm]

I KNOW! I remember being young and playing outside EVERY DAY after school, and it was always so much fun I hated to come inside. I feel bad for kids who don't experience that anymore, because they're plastered to the TV/playstation/whatever.

Yeah, funny thing is we had Nintendo and Sega back then, but playing outside was still a priority. I even had play clothes to change into to play outside. I used to run around for HOURS and come in the house with dirt under my nails, smelling like grass and childhood sweat.

Those were the days. :)

[SmilesSoSweet]

Me, on the other hand, I had a large backyard with a big swingset and a tons of neighborhood friends to run around with playing Hide-n-Go-Seek, It's, Red Light Green Light, etc and McDonalds was reserved as a treat. Why would I stay in?

If the weather was warm, we were hot, running around getting dirty and sweaty til our parents called us in.

This was the way we grew up too. We were riding our bikes and running/chasing each other all over the place. Playing in the streets, too - "game on, game off" was a commonly used term.

We had one video game system, but we were never hooked onto it.

I do have to say that my parents didn't give us the most healthy treats though. I think parents do need to take more responsiblity on what their kids eat. The british lady that says her kid "refuses to eat fruits and veggies" is just BS.

[Winter Storm]

We had one video game system, but we were never hooked onto it.

I do have to say that my parents didn't give us the most healthy treats though. I think parents do need to take more responsiblity on what their kids eat. The british lady that says her kid "refuses to eat fruits and veggies" is just BS.

Yeah I was never hooked on video games as a kid (got more into them as an adult).

And yeah, my parents also did not feed me the most healthy stuff, but I wasn't allowed fast food often and my mom did try to force me to eat my veggies, daily. Foiled her, though, I used to secretly throw them out. But at least she tried.:)

[embrassezla]

We had Nintendo, but I never really got into it. Playing outside with the neighborhood kids was always preferable :)

I remember my mom would pack my lunch for school and it was always way healthier than the other kids'. I don't think her efforts really affected the way I thought about food, though, because given the chance to pack my own lunch, I always switched out the carrot sticks for a big ziplock of teddy grahams.

[AshleyJordan]

We had Nintendo, but I never really got into it. Playing outside with the neighborhood kids was always preferable :)

I remember my mom would pack my lunch for school and it was always way healthier than the other kids'. I don't think her efforts really affected the way I thought about food, though, because given the chance to pack my own lunch, I always switched out the carrot sticks for a big ziplock of teddy grahams.

My mom always packed me Lebanese food. I was the only kid with hummous and grape leaves, but I suppose the "Mediterranean diet" is healthy. :rolleyes:

[embrassezla]

My mom always packed me Lebanese food. I was the only kid with hummous and grape leaves, but I suppose the "Mediterranean diet" is healthy. :rolleyes:
YEAH it is! That's awesome! Lucky kid, you were.

[AshleyJordan]

That reminds me. Anyone remember the Reagen years when ketchup was a vegetable and peanuts were meat in school lunches?

[Winter Storm]

My mom always packed me Lebanese food. I was the only kid with hummous and grape leaves, but I suppose the "Mediterranean diet" is healthy. :rolleyes:

Man, I had peanut butter & jelly, an apple and Ssips, every single day til I finally told my father enough! Please fix me something else! Then I got a mixed variety. Good Daddy! :)

[and1grad]

I dont think there are any more predators, or abductions now than there were before, we just hear about it more.
Statistically the same number of children are abducted each year for a long number of years.

But just because there is more violence etc I dont think that explains why children are more obese and its such an issue today.
I actually DO think there are more predators, rather than just being low profile. Also, I think the video game thing is a little overrated. I've always known kids who had Nintendo, etc. and it rarely kept them from going outside. Not having anywhere to actually go and do stuff was more of a deterrent.

[AshleyJordan]

Man, I had peanut butter & jelly, an apple and Ssips, every single day til I finally told my father enough! Please fix me something else! Then I got a mixed variety. Good Daddy! :)
Oh please. If my dad were in charge of feeding me, I'd be dead now. :p I lived with him for ~1 month in high school and he'd give me $20 every day to buy lunch. He knows *nothing* about food (or what it costs, apparently, but that worked out to my benefit.)

[Winter Storm]

Oh please. If my dad were in charge of feeding me, I'd be dead now. :p I lived with him for ~1 month in high school and he'd give me $20 every day to buy lunch. He knows *nothing* about food (or what it costs, apparently, but that worked out to my benefit.)
Oh please, it was my mom who knew nothing about food. Dinner every night was a Gourment Budget meal, microwaved on high for 6 mins. on a TV tray in front of the boob tube.

And you got $20, a day! Dayyum! I only got $1 to buy lunch, which was 80 cents then and I'd keep the change.

Damn this brings me way back. :0

[and1grad]

Oh please. If my dad were in charge of feeding me, I'd be dead now. :p I lived with him for ~1 month in high school and he'd give me $20 every day to buy lunch. He knows *nothing* about food (or what it costs, apparently, but that worked out to my benefit.)
I never got more than $20 a week and that included gas money.

[AshleyJordan]

Oh please, it was my mom who knew nothing about food. Dinner every night was a Gourment Budget meal, microwaved on high for 6 mins. on a TV tray in front of the boob tube.

And you got $20, a day! Dayyum! I only got $1 to buy lunch, which was 80 cents then and I'd keep the change.

Damn this brings me way back. :0

My mom's a fabulous cook and that's where I got most of my skillz from :p

My father has (obviously) no sense of money and his business always hangs by a thread. . . I'm pretty glad I didn't inherit his budgeting prowess.

I'm not at all advocating spending $100 a week on your kid's lunches. . . I just used the extra money to buy weed.

[old_school_soul]

That parent needs to send that little porker to his room if he refused to eat what's on the plate. He ain't gonna starve. Eventually his stomach will get the best of him and he'll eat the steamed brocolli, fish, and a baked potato.

[embrassezla]

One of my favorite meals to this day is PB&J and an apple, hah!

[weary]

i refuse to give my kid $ for lunch @ school b/c it's such sh*t now. all junk. i buy plenty of stuff that's cheaper and healthier that can be taken for lunch. i don't care that it's not "cool" to bring your lunch anymore. if you want to eat crap, use your $ from birthdays, grandma, etc.

you can guess what his choice is. so that's fine. i know he eats healthy @ home, and he eats a TON at home...so i'm okay w/ it.

[old_school_soul]

My mom's a fabulous cook and that's where I got most of my skillz from :p

My father has (obviously) no sense of money and his business always hangs by a thread. . . I'm pretty glad I didn't inherit his budgeting prowess.

I'm not at all advocating spending $100 a week on your kid's lunches. . . I just used the extra money to buy weed.

That's a lot of fucking weed. lol.

[Winter Storm]

My mom's a fabulous cook and that's where I got most of my skillz from :p

My father has (obviously) no sense of money and his business always hangs by a thread. . . I'm pretty glad I didn't inherit his budgeting prowess.

Man, if I had of gotten $20 a day then, I'd have thought I was a millionaire. LOL :0

To this day, I can't stomach my mom's cooking. She will literally throw everything in a pot and call is cassarole. It'll be crunchy, chewy, saucy, green and all :redface:

[weary]

I'm not at all advocating spending $100 a week on your kid's lunches. . . I just used the extra money to buy weed.
:eek: ROTFLMFAO! :razz:

[AshleyJordan]

That's a lot of fucking weed. lol.
Weed and clothes. My, but my standard of living has gone downhill, since. :p

[AshleyJordan]

:eek: ROTFLMFAO! :razz:
LOL me too. Ah, memories. :rolleyes:

[BadKitty]

Weed and clothes. My, but my standard of living has gone downhill, since. :p

I smoke two joints in the morning.
I smoke two joints at night.
I smoke two joints in the afternoon, it makes me feel alright
I smoke two joints in time of peace, and two in time of war
I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints,
And then I smoke two more

[SoftPyramid]

Interesting article here (http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Diet/story?id=2863420&page=1) that brings to light lots of the reasons children end up morbidly overweight.

The mother's comments sum it all up.

[old_school_soul]

I smoke two joints in the morning.
I smoke two joints at night.
I smoke two joints in the afternoon, it makes me feel alright
I smoke two joints in time of peace, and two in time of war
I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints,
And then I smoke two more

So did Obama. "I inhaled frequently, that was the point." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpBzQI_7ez8) What a breath of fresh air from a politician (pun intended).

[WorkInProgress]

Yeah, funny thing is we had Nintendo and Sega back then, but playing outside was still a priority. I even had play clothes to change into to play outside. I used to run around for HOURS and come in the house with dirt under my nails, smelling like grass and childhood sweat.

Those were the days. :)

Yep, I had play clothes too. (As opposed to school clothes or church clothes.) In fact I often still refer to the "at home" clothes as play clothes.

[old_school_soul]

Interesting article here (http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Diet/story?id=2863420&page=1) that brings to light lots of the reasons children end up morbidly overweight.

The mother's comments sum it all up.

That article is so depressing. I'd put that retard of a mother in jail for what she's done. That's child abuse. To bad we can't give people their sperm or ovum until after they are determined to be good parents.

[Winter Storm]

Yep, I had play clothes too. (As opposed to school clothes or church clothes.) In fact I often still refer to the "at home" clothes as play clothes.

Yeah now they're called 'lounge clothes'. I remember the funny look I got from a friend when she heard the term 'play clothes'. I thought all kids had them. I had 'play' tennis shoes too.

[Kitty]

I think parents are afraid to say "no" to their kids. I also think there's just a lot more junk out there (fast food, snack food, etc.) and EVERYONE is eating way too much of that crap. On top of that, kids are a lot less active these days due to video games, computer games, etc. Also, kids that live in bad neighborhoods can't always go outside to play. Another issue is lack of PE in schools and shitty food being served to kids in school.

I definitely think it's the fault of the parents if they have a very young child who is morbidly obese. The parents buy the groceries and the parents make the rules surrounding food. It's completely and totally up to them to buy healthy food for their kids and set the guidelines about healthy eating.

[Winter Storm]

To bad we can't give people their sperm or ovum until after they are determined to be good parents.

Hell, half the population would die out.

[AshleyJordan]

Yeah now they're called 'lounge clothes'. I remember the funny look I got from a friend when she heard the term 'play clothes'. I thought all kids had them. I had 'play' tennis shoes too.
"Lounge clothes?" For kids? What are they doing, relaxing over a glass of wine in their study?

[Winter Storm]

I think parents are afraid to say "no" to their kids.

That's for damn sure. My parent's had no problem telling me no. In fact, all I ever heard was no. I was afraid to ask my parents for the simplest things cause I knew they'd say no.

I still hesitate to ask my mother for things cause I assume she'll say no. :frustrate

[Winter Storm]

"Lounge clothes?" For kids? What are they doing, relaxing over a glass of wine in their study?
No! What I wear now, I call lounge clothes, for, yeah, exactly that purpose.

[old_school_soul]

No! What I wear now, I call lounge clothes, for lounging 'round my place.

You call pasties and a G-string lounge clothes?

[Winter Storm]

You call pasties and a G-string lounge clothes?

Hey, you bought it, I'm gonna wear it!

[AshleyJordan]

No! What I wear now, I call lounge clothes, for, yeah, exactly that purpose.
Ah, sorry :rolleyes:. I noticed that VS has an entire section of their catalogue for lounge clothes, and I couldn't figure out what I'd wear them for.

[BadKitty]

I think parents are afraid to say "no" to their kids. I also think there's just a lot more junk out there (fast food, snack food, etc.) and EVERYONE is eating way too much of that crap. On top of that, kids are a lot less active these days due to video games, computer games, etc. Also, kids that live in bad neighborhoods can't always go outside to play. Another issue is lack of PE in schools and shitty food being served to kids in school.

I definitely think it's the fault of the parents if they have a very young child who is morbidly obese. The parents buy the groceries and the parents make the rules surrounding food. It's completely and totally up to them to buy healthy food for their kids and set the guidelines about healthy eating.

I agree completely. I have a nice who is not morbidly obese yet, but well on her way to getting that way. She spends a lot of time with the grandparents who have an array of snacks and treats (what is she, a puppy?) stashed in the kitchen. Her dinners usually consist of pizza, or something gooey and deep fried. She eats throughout the day. Just comes by the kitchen and grabs whatever she feels like. There is no breakfast, lunch, dinner, just endless snacking and “are you hungry, sweetie?” (five minutes after the last snacking).

She rarely hears no, and when she does all hell breaks loose.

[old_school_soul]

I agree completely. I have a nice who is not morbidly obese yet, but well on her way to getting that way. She spends a lot of time with the grandparents who have an array of snacks and treats (what is she puppy?) stashed in the kitchen. Her dinners usually consist of pizza, or something gooey and deep fried. She eats throughout the day. Just comes by the kitchen and grabs whatever she feels like. There is no breakfast, lunch, dinner, just endless snacking and “are you hungry, sweetie?” (five minutes after the last snacking).

She rarely hears no, and when she does all hell breaks loose.

Have you lectured your sibling on this?

[embrassezla]

I noticed that VS has an entire section of their catalogue for lounge clothes, and I couldn't figure out what I'd wear them for.
I wore a pair of VS "lounge" pants to yoga last night! A hoodie too, come to think of it.

[BadKitty]

Have you lectured your sibling on this?

It's my husband's sister kid. I've tried to mention it, but feel awkward like I am mendling. Also, they (my in-laws) think I am too thin (at 5'3 and 120 pounds, I am just healthy, and far from skinny), but this is the South after all, and make fun of me eating healthy and exercising. Oh, yeah, I forgot i am the pretentiuos European.

The only thing my husband and I can do is feed her better when she comes over. Apples instead of chips, etc. She throws a fit, but oh well.

[weary]

you know, while i've no doubt that the mother is in the wrong is she's not willing to put a lock on the fridge or say no to the child, i'm surprised no one's mentioned on this thread that the child may have that same disease as the guy in the 800 (900?) lb man documentary. i can't remember the name, but it was basically that the 'full' signal in the body did not work...so the person just at constantly b/c the 'hungry' signal was always on. am i making sense? does anyone know what this is called?

i'm thinking that may be part of the kid's problem. doesn't exonerate the parents, but might explain the obesity some.

[AshleyJordan]

It's my husband's sister kid. I've tried to mention it, but feel awkward like I am mendling. Also, they (my in-laws) think I am too thin (at 5'3 and 120 pounds, I am just healthy, and far from skinny), but this is the South after all, and make fun of me eating healthy and exercising. Oh, yeah, I forgot i am the pretentiuos European.

The only thing my husband and I can do is feed her better when she comes over. Apples instead of chips, etc. She throws a fit, but oh well.

Does she exercise? I know the kids in my family have a ton of activities, including sports, to keep them in shape.

[weary]

It's my husband's sister kid. I've tried to mention it, but feel awkward like I am mendling. Also, they (my in-laws) think I am too thin (at 5'3 and 120 pounds, I am just healthy, and far from skinny), but this is the South after all, and make fun of me eating healthy and exercising. Oh, yeah, I forgot i am the pretentiuos European.

The only thing my husband and I can do is feed her better when she comes over. Apples instead of chips, etc. She throws a fit, but oh well.

how is 120 @ 5'3" skinny? i am taller than you and was 125 for a long time. (not anymore, but when i was, i certainly was not unhealthy. i even had curves. :rolleyes: )

[AshleyJordan]

how is 120 @ 5'3" skinny? i am taller than you and was 125 for a long time. (not anymore, but when i was, i certainly was not unhealthy. i even had curves. :rolleyes: )
Might depend on muscle tone. I was 126 at 5'4" for a while but worked out so much I was actually pretty compact. . . about a size 2, sometimes a 4, and people told me I looked "too thin"

[BadKitty]

you know, while i've no doubt that the mother is in the wrong is she's not willing to put a lock on the fridge or say no to the child, i'm surprised no one's mentioned on this thread that the child may have that same disease as the guy in the 800 (900?) lb man documentary. i can't remember the name, but it was basically that the 'full' signal in the body did not work...so the person just at constantly b/c the 'hungry' signal was always on. am i making sense? does anyone know what this is called?

i'm thinking that may be part of the kid's problem. doesn't exonerate the parents, but might explain the obesity some.

Oh, yes I remember. But those are isolated instances, right? I think we were all referring to cases where the obesity had nothing to do with an illness.

I think they have come up with a band which can be placed around your stomach to counter the condition you are referring to.

[WorkInProgress]

Yeah now they're called 'lounge clothes'. I remember the funny look I got from a friend when she heard the term 'play clothes'. I thought all kids had them. I had 'play' tennis shoes too.

I think it was partly because when I was little, my parents didn't have very much money, so I didn't have very many clothes, and the nice stuff I had had to stay nice. I still think it's a good rule, though. My mom was so pissed when she gave a couple of nice dresses that I'd grown out of to a family friend who allowed her daughter to play outside in the dirt and in the trees with them, ruining them. Obviously, the parent could do whatever she wanted with them, since my mom gave them away, but still. She was so peeved that she still remembers it.

[BadKitty]

how is 120 @ 5'3" skinny? i am taller than you and was 125 for a long time. (not anymore, but when i was, i certainly was not unhealthy. i even had curves. :rolleyes: )

well , that was my point. I work out, and i am a size 3-4, so I am in pretty good shape. But far from skinny.

[weary]

Oh, yes I remember. But those are isolated instances, right? I think we were all referring to cases where the obesity had nothing to do with an illness.

I think they have come up with a band which can be placed around your stomach to counter the condition you are referring to.
yes (isolated instances), but there was/is no cure. the lapband doesn't help the ppl w/ the disease i'm referring to. they have to basically battle it every day like an alcoholic or drug addict.

and that's what i'm saying though...was it said anywhere in the reports that this child's been checked for that disease? i'd think they'd check for it. not the mom, b/c she's obviously sticking her head in the sand...but the state health ppl/child protectic services ppl that are going after her.

[WorkInProgress]

you know, while i've no doubt that the mother is in the wrong is she's not willing to put a lock on the fridge or say no to the child, i'm surprised no one's mentioned on this thread that the child may have that same disease as the guy in the 800 (900?) lb man documentary. i can't remember the name, but it was basically that the 'full' signal in the body did not work...so the person just at constantly b/c the 'hungry' signal was always on. am i making sense? does anyone know what this is called?

i'm thinking that may be part of the kid's problem. doesn't exonerate the parents, but might explain the obesity some.

And that would be a medical issue that several cited as an exception. That condition, in particular, is the one I was thinking of when I mentioned medical issues. Even then, who waits that long to take their kid to the doctor to figure out something is wrong and ways to deal with it?

[BadKitty]

Even then, who waits that long to take their kid to the doctor to figure out something is wrong and ways to deal with it?

Exactly.

[BadKitty]

Does she exercise? I know the kids in my family have a ton of activities, including sports, to keep them in shape.

Not really. No one from the family does (except for me).

[BadKitty]

yes (isolated instances), but there was/is no cure. the lapband doesn't help the ppl w/ the disease i'm referring to. they have to basically battle it every day like an alcoholic or drug addict.
.

Do you happen to know what the condition is called?

[Kitty]

And that would be a medical issue that several cited as an exception. That condition, in particular, is the one I was thinking of when I mentioned medical issues. Even then, who waits that long to take their kid to the doctor to figure out something is wrong and ways to deal with it?

I'm wondering how common it really is..especially since it seems to be a relatively new phenomena. I honestly don't totally buy that the problem is 100% biological. I still think a good part of it is a result of the persons environment, and for lack of a better term, will-power (although, obviously not in the case of kids..which is why the parents have to be the enforcer).

[WorkInProgress]

I'm wondering how common it really is..especially since it seems to be a relatively new phenomena. I honestly don't totally buy that the problem is 100% biological. I still think a good part of it is a result of the persons environment, and for lack of a better term, will-power (although, obviously not in the case of kids..which is why the parents have to be the enforcer).

I have no idea how common it is, but I do believe it is a medical issue. The most recent documentary thing I saw on the condition included the baby of a mother in Australia who had two other children (both of whom look pretty thin actually and seemed to be normal on the film). She wasn't particularly heavy either. The big child was a toddler. It can be argued, I suppose, that she overfeeds him now that she knows his condition, but it doesn't really make sense why her other kids wouldn't also be large.

EDIT: It seems to be a relatively new phenomenon, but it might be that more people are exposed to documentaries and news articles about it and other rather obscure medical conditions. Off the top of my head, I could list several others.

[Kitty]

I just worry that the medical issue is going to be used as an excuse as to why a lot of kids are overweight. I am sure it is valid for some kids, but I bet for every kid where it's valid, there's about 100 more where it's just an excuse.

Anyway, just my opinion.

[WorkInProgress]

I just worry that the medical issue is going to be used as an excuse as to why a lot of kids are overweight. I am sure it is valid for some kids, but I bet for every kid where it's valid, there's about 100 more where it's just an excuse.

Anyway, just my opinion.

I suspect it's even more rare than that, actually.

[Ciderhillnh]

The kid has no disease.

Also specifically in my post I wrote how we are talking about children with NO medical reasons to be obese.....

Think of the 'giant' babies Maury Povich has on his show......its like that.

[weary]

The kid has no disease.

Also specifically in my post I wrote how we are talking about children with NO medical reasons to be obese.....

Think of the 'giant' babies Maury Povich has on his show......its like that.

was this part of the report?

[Kitty]

The kid has no disease.

Also specifically in my post I wrote how we are talking about children with NO medical reasons to be obese.....

Think of the 'giant' babies Maury Povich has on his show......its like that.

Dude, I was just following the natural flow of the conversation and jumping in. Not every time someone responds does it have to be an exact answer/response to the original post.

[weary]

Dude, I was just following the natural flow of the conversation and jumping in. Not every time someone responds does it have to be an exact answer/response to the original post.
thank you.

(its funny when the master jacker is peeved their own thread got jacked. lol.)

[Ciderhillnh]

Yes it was part of the report I saw this morning.

The topic was brought in about disease....specifically I posted how disease wasnt a concern in particular so that it eliminated those factors as variables.

[BadKitty]

The kid has no disease.

Also specifically in my post I wrote how we are talking about children with NO medical reasons to be obese.....

Think of the 'giant' babies Maury Povich has on his show......its like that.

That's whay I love the board. People digress (just like they would in an off-line discussion), and new topics/ideas/issues come up.

[Kitty]

Yes it was part of the report I saw this morning.

The topic was brought in about disease....specifically I posted how disease wasnt a concern in particular so that it eliminated those factors as variables.

That doesn't mean we cant' bring up disease in your thread! We can and we will!!

[weary]

That doesn't mean we cant' bring up disease in your thread! We can and we will!!
disease, disease, DISEASE!!!!!!!

:D

[Kitty]

disease, disease, DISEASE!!!!!!!

:D


Oh, and did I mention DISEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[old_school_soul]

For love the of God. WHY?

http://pandachute.com/videos/400_pound_7_year_old

[BadKitty]

For love the of God. WHY?

http://pandachute.com/videos/400_pound_7_year_old

Oh, my god! How did that happen?

[AshleyJordan]

That doesn't mean we cant' bring up disease in your thread! We can and we will!!
uh, bringing up disease is also relevant, unlike a C'jack, which is characterized by being totally irrelevant. :rolleyes:

[nikorock28]

uh, bringing up disease is also relevant, unlike a C'jack, which is characterized by being totally irrelevant. :rolleyes:

I agree. There was no irrelevancy in this thread, EVEN in context of the original post.

[nikorock28]

Yes it was part of the report I saw this morning.

The topic was brought in about disease....specifically I posted how disease wasnt a concern in particular so that it eliminated those factors as variables.

Even though you specifically posted how disease wasn't a concern, it still can be discussed in context because it is a perceived concern (to what degree, how it affects the overall situation), which is what the forumers were discussing.

[weary]

Even though you specifically posted how disease wasn't a concern, it still can be discussed in context because it is a perceived concern (to what degree, how it affects the overall situation), which is what the forumers were discussing.
forumers...i like that.

(OMG. that was totally irrelevant! :eek: )

[Winter Storm]

disease, disease, DISEASE!!!!!!!

:D

LMFAO.

Thank you! I needed that laugh after coming out yet another freaking meeting!

:p :rolleyes: :D

[Kitty]

Oh, my god! How did that happen?

I don't know, but that is really depressing. :cry:

[embrassezla]

doodee
WHERE ARE THE THREAD POLICE OMGZ

[mishl982]

For love the of God. WHY?

http://pandachute.com/videos/400_pound_7_year_old
What, what, what is it? My work blocked it and categorized it as violence!:eek:

[Winter Storm]

What, what, what is it? My work blocked it and categorized it as violence!:eek:

Aint missing nothing. It's a sad news feature on a 400 pound, 7 year old girl, so morbidly obese, she can't walk but rolls around on the floor looking really sad and actually disabled. Just pulling herself up on a chair leaves her out of breath.

[AshleyJordan]

What, what, what is it? My work blocked it and categorized it as violence!:eek:
I seriously couldn't watch that but I hope that's not real. I feel so bad for that little kid.

[Ciderhillnh]

I dont care if the discussion takes a turn.....I posted to discuss topics of why kids are obese OTHER than medical issues.

As far as the 7 year old, they didnt really go into why she is so huge......but thats sick.

I doubt these things happened to so many kids oh 20 years ago etc.

Dont know if anyone recalls but at least growing up in my class there were maybe 4 kids I would consider obese when I graduated high school (class of 375) if you go into older year books, you dont see that many...and now you see many more.

I dont think its video games either, Nintendo was great, but it wasnt something parents seemed to let their kids sit in front of for days at a time like playstation etc now.

As far as nutrition......you can make a meal of tuna and raman noodles for around $50......its better than fast food, and almost cheaper. I dont see how someone living anywhere would have difficulty going to the local grocery and finding these 2 items.
Understandably fresh produce is going to cost more, but there are frozen veggies and fruits that can be purchased as well. They last longer and have most of the nutritional content and are easy to make.
Empty frozen veggies into container, add a touch of water, microwave for 4 minutes...voila veggies hot and tasty.

[embrassezla]

Understandably fresh produce is going to cost more, but there are frozen veggies and fruits that can be purchased as well. They last longer and have most of the nutritional content and are easy to make.
Empty frozen veggies into container, add a touch of water, microwave for 4 minutes...voila veggies hot and tasty.
Not to go COMPLETELY off topic, but microwaving vegetables causes around 80% nutrient loss.

Anyway, carry on.

[Kitty]

Not to go COMPLETELY off topic, but microwaving vegetables causes around 80% nutrient loss.

Anyway, carry on.

Is that true? I've heard otherwise.

[Ciderhillnh]

Um...okay thats why my nutritionist told me to do it that way so they are fast and easy...and dont get gross mushy from being put on the stove in water.

[WorkInProgress]

Not to go COMPLETELY off topic, but microwaving vegetables causes around 80% nutrient loss.

Anyway, carry on.

I'm not shocked, but it's still a hulluva lot better than, say, a big mac and fries.

[Ciderhillnh]

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art30997.asp

Read, talks about nutrients and microwaving veggies.

[weary]

Um...okay thats why my nutritionist told me to do it that way so they are fast and easy...and dont get gross mushy from being put on the stove in water.
there's this magical invention in cooking...it's called a steaming basket. ;)

[embrassezla]

Is that true? I've heard otherwise.
Yeah, I'll dig around for the article.

[WorkInProgress]

there's this magical invention in cooking...it's called a steaming basket. ;)

LOVE me some steamed broccoli. Definitely one of my favorite foods.

[embrassezla]

Um...okay thats why my nutritionist told me to do it that way so they are fast and easy...and dont get gross mushy from being put on the stove in water.
Steaming causes 10% nutrient loss, and takes around 10mins for the harder veggies.

[weary]

LOVE me some steamed broccoli. Definitely one of my favorite foods.
seriously. i eat me some broccoli almost every day. YUM.

we're having broccoli omeletes for breakfast when you come for the weekend. :p

[WorkInProgress]

seriously. i eat me some broccoli almost every day. YUM.

we're having broccoli omeletes for breakfast when you come for the weekend. :p

SWEET!!!

[wordsmith]

I prefer my veggies raw.

[embrassezla]

Yeah, I'll dig around for the article.
Found it. (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/106558884/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0)

[old_school_soul]

Not to go COMPLETELY off topic, but microwaving vegetables causes around 80% nutrient loss.

Anyway, carry on.

That's a myth.

[embrassezla]

That's a myth.
See my source in the previous post.

[old_school_soul]

See my source in the previous post.

Link doesn't work.. but I'm guessing this is the 2003 study with brocolli from Spain?

[and1grad]

Link doesnt work for me either. I thought the nutrient loss depends on the amount of water the vegetable is microwaved with.

[embrassezla]

Hrm, it works for me. PM me if you want me to email it to you. (I'm leaving for the day, but I'll mail it tomorrow).

[old_school_soul]

Hrm, it works for me. PM me if you want me to email it to you. (I'm leaving for the day, but I'll mail it tomorrow).

It's probably because you have an account that you log in with to read the articles.

[embrassezla]

It's probably because you have an account that you log in with to read the articles.
Nope, I don't!

[EmberMae]

As far as nutrition......you can make a meal of tuna and raman noodles for around $50......its better than fast food, and almost cheaper. I dont see how someone living anywhere would have difficulty going to the local grocery and finding these 2 items.
Understandably fresh produce is going to cost more, but there are frozen veggies and fruits that can be purchased as well. They last longer and have most of the nutritional content and are easy to make.
Empty frozen veggies into container, add a touch of water, microwave for 4 minutes...voila veggies hot and tasty.
Ramen noodles are actually really bad for you. They're made with processed flour and are very high in sodium and MSG. Canned tuna isn't so great either. That's exactly what we're talking about, anything processed and from a can is not that good for you. What Americans are really really lacking is fresh fruits and vegetables. Frozen are okay, but can be expensive. I'm not sure if I buy the whole microwave is bad argument. I can tell you from personal experience that washing, peeling, and chopping fresh vegetables every night takes FOREVER, and it's hard for a person working fulltime to manage it. I do it because I really can't stand the alternative but I spend around 1-2 hours each night preparing dinner. Then I eat leftovers for lunch, but if the microwave is bad then I'm really screwed because that's my only option for reheating it.

Anyway, I think the situation in the original post is pretty awful and preventable, but I think as a whole the way of life in the U.S. has changed in such a way that obesity is an unavoidable byproduct. Most of us simply don't have the time to prepare home cooked food AND spend an hour a day exercising AND get 8 hours of sleep a night, all of which are recommended factors for avoiding obesity. For kids it should be a little easier but they have to eat what their parents give them--also just running around the neighborhood does not seem to be as common as it once was. I have several co workers who basically work weird schedules so that one of them can drive the kids to school in the morning, and the other can be there to pick them up. I asked why didn't they just walk to school and they looked at me like I was insane. When I was in elementary school, I walked. It was over a mile, but under 2 or else we would have gotten a bus. Also one of my favorite pasttimes was just riding bikes around the neighborhood. My diet was not great, but I was thin. I don't know if it is actually more dangerous, or just cultural differences, but most people seem to be much more hesitant to let their kids out of their sight.

[Ciderhillnh]

The point I was trying to make with the raman noodles is that they are WAY more healthy than a Big Mac with 65 grams of fat.....and they are SUPER SUPER cheap.
Tuna is at least protein and again has much less fat than fries, or a milkshake or other easy items at McDonalds or Burger King.

The entire meal: can of tuna and raman noodles would take less than 20 minutes to put together, and would cost less than a dollar.

If you want to step up on the health factor, how about hamburger helper? $3 for the box and buy the meat. Microwave some frozen veggies and I believe with a glass of milk we have a meal with all the food groups.

As for microwaving veggies....I add MAYBE a tablespoon of water, place in the microwave for 5 minutes or less, and I have my fresh veggies.

I know that a plastic sleeve pouch of fresh large peas is right around $3 here. That bag is something like 8 servings.

[embrassezla]

If you want to step up on the health factor, how about hamburger helper? $3 for the box and buy the meat. Microwave some frozen veggies and I believe with a glass of milk we have a meal with all the food groups.
If people in this country seriously think that hamburger helper with veggies is a healthy meal, then no freaking wonder so many of us are obese.

[WorkInProgress]

If people in this country seriously think that hamburger helper with veggies is a healthy meal, then no freaking wonder so many of us are obese.

Better than a Big Mac, no?

[beeblebrox]

Better than a Big Mac, no?

Prince Charles is considering barring McD's in Britain. He's taking away people's choice to eat food which is known not to be good for you. Oddly, I watched Jamie Oliver's documentary about getting healthier food in London schools and McD's is their least worry. Some of the staples of British food are laden with fat and butter.

[pisces2473]

Better than a Big Mac, no?
I'd say. I didn't read this entire thread, but it seems like some people are very ignorant about the problems poor people are facing when it comes to food/nutrition.

It's not that people are lazy about the food they choose--sometimes they have NO other choice but to buy what's readily available AND cost-effective. Awhile ago, Red and I posted this article from NYT about how inner-city grocers and bodegas carry rotting produce and people don't want to eat that, even though they do want to be healthy.

[beeblebrox]

It's not that people are lazy about the food they choose--sometimes they have NO other choice but to buy what's readily available AND cost-effective. Awhile ago, Red and I posted this article from NYT about how inner-city grocers and bodegas carry rotting produce and people don't want to eat that, even though they do want to be healthy.

I see both sides of the coin on that one. The cheaper grocery stores often have the food loaded with carbohydrates on sale most often. I've encountered some smaller stores with bad produce. At least in Chicago, there are produce markets in some of the Hispanic dominated areas that have better produce than the mass market grocery stores like Jewel.

[ebruening]

I'm a teacher, and I must say that the students at my school genuinely WANT healthy food. However, the lunches at our school are, by and large, extremely unhealthy. Fried, processed, greasy foods are all too common staples in school lunches. Many of my students bring their own lunches, in order to eat healthier. I'm quite worried about the students in my school who have no other choice (financially) than to eat the unhealthy school lunches. True, the lunches have all the food groups, but my, they're loaded with unnecessary calories!

[embrassezla]

Better than a Big Mac, no?
I wouldn't be surprised if it's comparable, actually.

McDonalds has grilled chicken, salads, etc.

[pisces2473]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's comparable, actually.

McDonalds has grilled chicken, salads, etc.
Are they on the dollar menu, though? Big Macs might still be cheaper.

[embrassezla]

Are they on the dollar menu, though? Big Macs might still be cheaper.
Dunno - haven't eaten there in years and I don't have the proper plug-in to view the dollar menu on the website, apparently.

[pisces2473]

Dunno - haven't eaten there in years and I don't have the proper plug-in to view the dollar menu on the website, apparently.
Yeah, I don't know either...also haven't eaten there in years.

[embrassezla]

You could order a big mac with no cheese or sauce, too, to cut quite a bit of calories, if you were educated enough in basic nutrition to know that that makes a difference.

[Ciderhillnh]

The chicken sandwich is NOT on the doller menu...their chicken snacker is but its a very small portion.

The reason I used raman noodles and tuna, as well as hamburger helper as examples of food, is Im specifically thinking of the family that is poor and potentially cannot buy fresh produce due to availability and cost.

Those are 2 alternate ideas (amongst many) That can offer proper nutrition and be much healthier than a big mac, fries and a milkshake.

It might have a ton of sodium, but drink enough water and it should help...right?

[EmberMae]

If people in this country seriously think that hamburger helper with veggies is a healthy meal, then no freaking wonder so many of us are obese.
Amen. If it is healthier than a big mac, which I sincerely doubt if you use regular full fat ground beef, it's not healthier by much. This is just laughable. It seems like people are just parroting that mcdonalds is unhealthy without really understanding WHY it's unhealthy, and that cooking at home is no better if it contains the same nutritional ingredients.

[pisces2473]

You could order a big mac with no cheese or sauce, too, to cut quite a bit of calories, if you were educated enough in basic nutrition to know that that makes a difference.
Most poor people aren't educated in basic nutrition. And that goes with Cider's suggestion to drink water. I don't think they would be drinking water, either. It's juice and soda...

Hell, most educated people (including doctors!) aren't very well schooled in nutrition.

[embrassezla]

The reason I used raman noodles and tuna, as well as hamburger helper as examples of food, is Im specifically thinking of the family that is poor and potentially cannot buy fresh produce due to availability and cost.
I haven't looked up the nutrition info for ramen noodles, but if you leave out the little packet of flavor, or even just half of it, and add the canned tuna then yeah, I'd agree that that might be as healthy as you can get for that price.

Hamburger Helper is still a lost cause, though.

[embrassezla]

Most poor people aren't educated in basic nutrition.
Precisely my point.

[beeblebrox]

I haven't looked up the nutrition info for ramen noodles, but if you leave out the little packet of flavor, or even just half of it, and add the canned tuna then yeah, I'd agree that that might be as healthy as you can get for that price.

Hamburger Helper is still a lost cause, though.

so that makes me question a staple among my bf and I, tuna mac. Would that be deemed unhealthy?? Also, those Hamburger Helpers always taste like they've got a ton of extra salt in there, you can literally taste the sodium, it's gross.

[embrassezla]

so that makes me question a staple among my bf and I, tuna mac. Would that be deemed unhealthy??
Completely depends on the ingredients and quantities used/consumed. If you're making boxed mac n cheese and adding a can of tuna then yes, I would deem that unhealthy. If you are using whole wheat pasta, a can of tuna, low-fat milk and cheese and adding some veggies in there, I'd say that doesn't sound too bad.

[beeblebrox]

Completely depends on the ingredients and quantities used/consumed. If you're making boxed mac n cheese and adding a can of tuna then yes, I would deem that unhealthy. If you are using whole wheat pasta, a can of tuna, low-fat milk and cheese and adding some veggies in there, I'd say that doesn't sound too bad.

Kraft is now making a mac and cheese with whole wheat enriched pasta btw called Supermac.

[embrassezla]

Kraft is now making a mac and cheese with whole wheat enriched pasta btw called Supermac.
Wouldn't trust it without looking at the ingredient list and nutrition info.

[pisces2473]

Kraft is now making a mac and cheese with whole wheat enriched pasta btw called Supermac.
Yeah, but how bad is the cheese "product"?

[WorkInProgress]

Yeah, but how bad is the cheese "product"?

My college roommate and I used to call that "cheesefood--as in 'food for cheeses.'" My family does now too. ;):

[Ciderhillnh]

My posts are not meant to be a nutritional menu for those who cannot afford fresh produce and go to McDs or BK for their meals....

My point is that even on a very limited budget, there are ways to eat well and more healthy than going to BK or McDs.

It might not be the best nutritional menu that someone can get (such as fresh veggies, fresh meat, low sodium, wheat pasta) but it has enough nutrition that a child shouldnt weigh 400 lbs!

[pisces2473]

Found the list of ingredients:

Enriched Pasta: Durum Wheat Semolina, Whole Wheat Flour, Monoglycerides, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate (Iron), Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D Cheese Sauce Mix: Whey, Modified Food Starch, Milkfat, Milk Protein Concentrate, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Contains Less than 2% of Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Cellulose Gel, Cellulose Gum, Citric Acid, Calcium Phospate, Natural Flavor, Sodium Phospate, Lactic Acid, Monosodium Glutamate, Milk, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Yellow 5, Vitamin E Acetate, Artificial Flavor, Yellow 6, Dried Onions, Enzymes, Cheese Culture.


Um, hi, that's all crap. I don't care if it has been fortified with calcium and iron and is full of vitamins and minerals. It's all crap.

[WorkInProgress]

It might not be the best nutritional menu that someone can get (such as fresh veggies, fresh meat, low sodium, wheat pasta) but it has enough nutrition that a child shouldnt weigh 400 lbs!

I'm with you on this one.

[pisces2473]

Wow, me too! LOL

[WorkInProgress]

Also, and I'm very ignorant about this (hence the question), but do the schools that these poor people we're discussing not have health classes that discuss food groups/pyramid/basic nutrition? Because I did, like every year through the 9th grade. I don't claim to be an expert, but I have some idea of what's good for me and what's not.

(Yeah, I get that kids don't always or often get to choose what they eat, but kids ask questions, no? Not unlike the, "Mommy, if smoking is so bad, why do you smoke?" stuff that happens.)

(And yes, I realize it's more than just knowing what's nutritious and what's not but having access to those foods.)

[SpaceMonkey]

Also, and I'm very ignorant about this (hence the question), but do the schools that these poor people we're discussing not have health classes that discuss food groups/pyramid/basic nutrition? Because I did, like every year through the 9th grade. I don't claim to be an expert, but I have some idea of what's good for me and what's not.

In my junior high, we had a traditional "home ec" class where we learned that stuff and actually had to cook food as well! It was awesome!

[WorkInProgress]

In my junior high, we had a traditional "home ec" class where we learned that stuff and actually had to cook food as well! It was awesome!

I had one of those too, but I hated it, since we had to cook in teams. Plus, we didn't cook practical things, which would have been better. And I already knew those basic skills we learned from cooking in my mother's kitchen.

[pisces2473]

We didn't really have nutrition courses, in science OR home ec. It was touched upon a bit, but nothing in depth. Mom's a nurse, so we're pretty good on the nutrition stuff. She knows what's bad for us, but she still bought it sometimes anyway.

[mishl982]

As for microwaving veggies....I add MAYBE a tablespoon of water, place in the microwave for 5 minutes or less, and I have my fresh veggies.
I'm sorry, but frozen veggies thrown in a microwave does not make fresh veggies. Fresh veggies make fresh veggies!

Anyhoo, in high shcool I had a nutrition/healthy foods class for one semester. Then the other semester was gourmet living. All I remember was using lots of shortening. Seemed kind of counterproductive, lol!

I think we also learned about health and nutrition in our Teen Living class in middle school.

[Ciderhillnh]

Flash frozen veggies are fresh veggies that are then flash frozen to maintain their nutritional value.

Then when you heat them up they are exactly like taking fresh and heating them up.

[BlueEyedFunOne]

I had one of those too, but I hated it, since we had to cook in teams. Plus, we didn't cook practical things, which would have been better. And I already knew those basic skills we learned from cooking in my mother's kitchen.


Agreed - my 6th grade home ec class was terrible. I looked forward to it, until all we did in class were things like sewing bean bags. We made stovetop popcorn once (cool!) but the morons on my team were goofing off and burned it. The teacher also made us measure out exact amounts of dish soap and water to wash the dishes.

I'm not against home ec classes, even the shitty ones like mine. There are LOADS of practical skills that could be part of childrens' educations, especially if they're not learning them at home.

[embrassezla]

Then when you heat them up they are exactly like taking fresh and heating them up.
Freezing does cause some nutrient loss (in veggies as well as meat, actually), but if you buy frozen veggies and saute them up in a stir-fry, you probably don't need to worry about nutrient loss. Just don't microwave em.

[mishl982]

I can honestly say I've only microwaved my veggies a handful of times. It just doesn't taste the same. I prefer steaming or just throwing them in a skillet.

[SpaceMonkey]

The final word on microwaving vegetables and nutrient loss:

New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/health/17real.html?ei=5090&en=224c1912b11b2411&ex=1318737600&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1161496824-7uNRBnuKbV9HKtlArlTTAg)

[beeblebrox]

The final word on microwaving vegetables and nutrient loss:

New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/health/17real.html?ei=5090&en=224c1912b11b2411&ex=1318737600&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1161496824-7uNRBnuKbV9HKtlArlTTAg)

I use my pampered chef microwave steamer for my all of my veggies and never add water.

[embrassezla]

Haha, not sure I'd call that the "final word" since it's just summarizing different findings of different studies.

For those of us who have access to a stove, steaming could be argued to be the best option, since nutrient loss is at a minimum. If you HAVE to microwave your vegetables for some reason, then use as little water as possible, I guess. I use my microwave for disinfecting sponges and pretty much nothing else, so I don't know how much water one needs to microwave veggies.

[Ciderhillnh]

About a tablespoon or less in the microwave to get them steamed and hot, not mushy.

The reason I 'have' to microwave them is I have better timing with making a hot meal and having hot veggies with it if I do it in this method, plus it doesnt take as long!

[SpaceMonkey]

Haha, not sure I'd call that the "final word" since it's just summarizing different findings of different studies.

For those of us who have access to a stove, steaming could be argued to be the best option, since nutrient loss is at a minimum. If you HAVE to microwave your vegetables for some reason, then use as little water as possible, I guess. I use my microwave for disinfecting sponges and pretty much nothing else, so I don't know how much water one needs to microwave veggies.

It summarizes different findings and flat-out concludes that if you microwave without any water (for most veggies, water is unnecessary) there is no more nutritient loss than if you had steamed them on a stove.

[and1grad]

It summarizes different findings and flat-out concludes that if you microwave without any water (for most veggies, water is unnecessary) there is no more nutritient loss than if you had steamed them on a stove.
Ya but have you seen microwaved veggies w/o water? No thanks! :)

[WorkInProgress]

Ya but have you seen microwaved veggies w/o water? No thanks! :)

I've never actually tried microwaving vegetables.

[AshleyJordan]

I always like to cook a little garlic/onions in olive oil first, and season the veggies with sauce or herbs a little later, which can basically only be done on the stove. My microwave is for Amy's Frozen Burritos, exclusively. ;)

[pisces2473]

I always like to cook a little garlic/onions in olive oil first, and season the veggies with sauce or herbs a little later, which can basically only be done on the stove. My microwave is for Amy's Frozen Burritos, exclusively. ;)
Dinner at Ashleys!

[AshleyJordan]

Dinner at Ashleys!
hehehe. Did I mention I make good cocktails, too? :p

[WorkInProgress]

hehehe. Did I mention I make good cocktails, too? :p

Yum! Booze and sauteed vegetables! That's nutritious!

[embrassezla]

It summarizes different findings and flat-out concludes that if you microwave without any water (for most veggies, water is unnecessary) there is no more nutritient loss than if you had steamed them on a stove.
Did we read the same article? First it cites a study that showed that steamed spinach lost 80% of its folate when cooked on a stove, but almost none when cooked in a microwave. Then it cites the study I listed upthread that showed that brocolli cooked in the microwave lost over 80% of its antioxidants. Then at the bottom it says:

"Microwave ovens generally do not destroy nutrients in food."

OK, since antioxidants are not technically nutrients (I took a semantic shortcut upthread, never dreaming this topic would continue), then yeah, the microwave didn't destroy the nutrients in spinach. But kind of an arbitrary bottom line, based on what the article summarized, wouldn't you say?

[and1grad]

I've never actually tried microwaving vegetables.
Its not pretty w/o water. It shrivels up like "smoker's face."

[embrassezla]

Its not pretty w/o water. It shrivels up like "smoker's face."
I know you aren't supposed to microwave a sponge without drenching it in water first.

[WorkInProgress]

Its not pretty w/o water. It shrivels up like "smoker's face."

Eew, gross.

[beeblebrox]

I've never actually tried microwaving vegetables.

http://www.pamperedchef.com/our_products/catalog/product.jsp?productId=251&categoryCode=KW

amazing product and it works well for veggies.

[WorkInProgress]

Yep, I've seen those and everyone I know who uses it loves it, but I've never done it myself, or seen it done.

[wordsmith]

I always microwave potatoes pre-baking them, when I make baked or twice-baked potatoes, because it cuts the baking time by more than half.

[ScottyTheBody]

Did we read the same article? First it cites a study that showed that steamed spinach lost 80% of its folate when cooked on a stove, but almost none when cooked in a microwave. Then it cites the study I listed upthread that showed that brocolli cooked in the microwave lost over 80% of its antioxidants. Then at the bottom it says:

"Microwave ovens generally do not destroy nutrients in food."

OK, since antioxidants are not technically nutrients (I took a semantic shortcut upthread, never dreaming this topic would continue), then yeah, the microwave didn't destroy the nutrients in spinach. But kind of an arbitrary bottom line, based on what the article summarized, wouldn't you say?

Yeah I actually had to reread that because I was like what!?.

It says when the vegetables are immersed and cooked in water, they lose a lot of nutrients, etc. So they cooked the vegetables IN water in the microwave and it lost a lot of nutrients. However, when the vegetables were NOT immersed in water, in the microwave, they didn't lose that many nutrients.

Thus it's the action of cooking in water (be it stove, microwave, whatever) and NOT the specific action of cooking in the microwave in which the vegetables lose their nutrients, etc. (something to do with the most heat sensitive nutrients are water soluble or something?)

[embrassezla]

It says when the vegetables are immersed and cooked in water, they lose a lot of nutrients, etc.
Right, the nutrients leach out into the water.

However, when the vegetables were NOT immersed in water, in the microwave, they didn't lose that many nutrients.
Like I said, I don't know how to microwave veggies, but I'm under the impression that water is needed (not enough to immerse, but needed nonetheless)

[pisces2473]

Embra--yeah, when you nuke veggies, you need a lil water, just like if you were to steam them.

I guess you could drink the water, to regain the nutrients, lol.

[WorkInProgress]

I guess you could drink the water, to regain the nutrients, lol.

Or use it in the place of plain water for something else.

[ScottyTheBody]

Like I said, I don't know how to microwave veggies, but I'm under the impression that water is needed (not enough to immerse, but needed nonetheless)

I personally don't bother with the teaspoon of water on them (I find little to no effect and I'm kinda lazy). I just dump it on a plate/bowl and throw it in the microwave.

[pisces2473]

Or use it in the place of plain water for something else.
I have done that...used the water to cook rice in.

[WorkInProgress]

I have done that...used the water to cook rice in.

That is exactly what I was thinking of, actually.

[embrassezla]

I have done that...used the water to cook rice in.
That is a great idea!

[pisces2473]

That is a great idea!
Can also use it to water plants, obviously you need to let the water COOL first.

[embrassezla]

We're talking about microwaving raw veggies, right? Not re-heating pre-cooked ones?

[beeblebrox]

I nuke frozen veggies most often.

[pisces2473]

We're talking about microwaving raw veggies, right? Not re-heating pre-cooked ones?
I'm talking about frozen ones, personally. Haven't reused the water, because there usually isn't much left over.

When I cook raw veggies, it's always on the stovetop, in a steamer. I have re-used that water.

[WorkInProgress]

Can also use it to water plants, obviously you need to let the water COOL first.

It made my plants smelly funny.

Dogs (or at least mine, anyway) like a little bit of it mixed in with their food.

And I'm talking about the water from the steamer too.

[wordsmith]

You can totally use the water you cook vegetables in to make vegetable stock, and use it as a soup base. Homemade stock is awesome.

[embrassezla]

Yeah, I'm thinking there's a difference between heating frozen raw veggies and cooking fresh raw veggies (in terms of nutrient loss in the microwave). But this threadjack has probably gone far enough so I won't investigate it :)

[pisces2473]

Yeah, I'm thinking there's a difference between heating frozen raw veggies and cooking fresh raw veggies (in terms of nutrient loss in the microwave). But this threadjack has probably gone far enough so I won't investigate it :)
Embra, you can always PM me with threadjacks about healthy stuff--anytime!

[beeblebrox]

Yeah, I'm thinking there's a difference between heating frozen raw veggies and cooking fresh raw veggies (in terms of nutrient loss in the microwave). But this threadjack has probably gone far enough so I won't investigate it :)

I know that you're trying to understand the difference between fresh versus frozen and microwave versus stove, but it seems like anything that I contribute is being knocked down on and that all of my healthy efforts are useless. I guess tonight I'm eating a Big Mac because all of my veggies and smaller portions aren't doing me any good.

[SpaceMonkey]

Did we read the same article? First it cites a study that showed that steamed spinach lost 80% of its folate when cooked on a stove, but almost none when cooked in a microwave. Then it cites the study I listed upthread that showed that brocolli cooked in the microwave lost over 80% of its antioxidants. Then at the bottom it says:

"Microwave ovens generally do not destroy nutrients in food."

OK, since antioxidants are not technically nutrients (I took a semantic shortcut upthread, never dreaming this topic would continue), then yeah, the microwave didn't destroy the nutrients in spinach. But kind of an arbitrary bottom line, based on what the article summarized, wouldn't you say?

The point the article makes is that it is the presence of water that matters, not whether you heated the vegetables by stovetop or microwave radiation.

[embrassezla]

I know that you're trying to understand the difference between fresh versus frozen and microwave versus stove, but it seems like anything that I contribute is being knocked down on and that all of my healthy efforts are useless. I guess tonight I'm eating a Big Mac because all of my veggies and smaller portions aren't doing me any good.
Why are you directing that at me? You asked if 'tuna mac' is healthy, I told you no, but made a suggestion on how to make it healthier.

[embrassezla]

Embra, you can always PM me with threadjacks about healthy stuff--anytime!
Hehe, yeah there are a few of us interested in this kinda stuff, that I usually end up PMing with. You included!

[beeblebrox]

Why are you directing that at me? You asked if 'tuna mac' is healthy, I told you no, but made a suggestion on how to make it healthier.

it was also suggested that microwaving veggies is bad too. I like a lot of other people don't have the time or desire stove cooking everything. This thread has done nothing but confused me on what's good, what's bad.

[embrassezla]

This thread has done nothing but confused me on what's good, what's bad.
I'm sorry you feel confused, and I can be blunt sometimes so I'm sorry if that offended you - it wasn't personal. If you have questions you can PM me - I'm not an expert; nutrition is just a hobby of mine.

[pisces2473]

Hehe, yeah there are a few of us interested in this kinda stuff, that I usually end up PMing with. You included!
Ha, we need our own forum here!

[somnolence]

People are forgetting what it means to be a parent. Parents are more worried about their child having a negative impression of them that they cater to their child's every whim.


I find that most of the people who say this aren't parents themselves.

[cache]

I find that most of the people who say this aren't parents themselves.

Because a parent probably wouldn't admit to it.

[Winter Storm]

Now this video from CNN hits right on some of the things mentioned in this thread. It states that in the southside of Chicago (and probably other places), there is a scarcity of large grocery markets which have fresh produce and fruit in the lower-income areas, making it harder for people to shop there. Meanwhile, what is prevalent in the poorer areas are plenty of liquor stores and fast food places.

Speaking from my own experience, I live in an area (county/city line, plus I drive) where I have my pick of 4 large markets, 2 Giants, a Shoppers and a Safeway within 5 miles and also a Trader Joes and a Whole Foods. But if I can recall, there are no large (or really nice) grocery markets in the more hoodish areas.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/health/2007/03/01/oppenheim.food.deserts.cnn

[Kitty]

I actually don't use water when I cook my veggies in the microwave...I didn't know you ere supposed to?

[wordsmith]

It's usually not necessary for frozen because the ice crystals that melt add the necessary moisture. I've never microwaved raw fresh veggies, and I very rarely eat canned.

[Kitty]

A lot of times I just cut up asparagus and put it in a bowl and microwave. I don't add water and it doesn't come out with "smokers face" LOL

[wordsmith]

Now this video from CNN hits right on some of the things mentioned in this thread. It states that in the southside of Chicago (and probably other places), there is a scarcity of large grocery markets which have fresh produce and fruit in the lower-income areas, making it harder for people to shop there. Meanwhile, what is prevalent in the poorer areas are plenty of liquor stores and fast food places.



Totally true. Low income areas are generally rife with fast food, convenience stores, and liquor stores, light on large grocers, fruit/vegetable markets, and generally devoid of Whole Foods/Trader Joes type places.

[cheshrcarol]

For those of you that steam veggies, do you actually use a steam basket and everything? I've never tried that. Usually if I make edamame or something, I boil it. I had no idea until this thread that I'd be losing nutrients doing that, though!

[wordsmith]

For those of you that steam veggies, do you actually use a steam basket and everything? I've never tried that. Usually if I make edamame or something, I boil it. I had no idea until this thread that I'd be losing nutrients doing that, though!

I have a steam basket, and a Black & Decker rice/ veggie steamer. I also have a pot that looks like a perforated double-boiler, that does the same thing.

[pisces2473]

I hate the foldy one size fits any pot steamer.
I have one of those and it does NOT fit any pot!

[wordsmith]

I have an insert that's just like the double boiler insert, except it has holes. I hate the foldy one size fits any pot steamer.

Yup, the nesting one is best. I don't like the foldy ones, either.

[somnolence]

Because a parent probably wouldn't admit to it.


Please! Do you think that ALL parents are giving in to our childrens' every whim and we're all just backing each other up? Maybe it's because people who don't have any kids don't have any idea what they are talking about here, they only think they do.

Children who are as morbidly obese as the boy and girl talked about in this thread are not a regular occurance. I have a child in school and have been to many school functions. There are few children I have seen that I would even say are overweight. There are certainly no obese children. I also know a lot of other parents and I haven't known any yet who were guilty of indulging their child's every whim. I'm not saying that parents like that don't exist, but I don't believe they exist in any greater numbers than they did in the past.