Again with my car

[yankeeyosh]

I swear...I take back anything positive I said about my car. I heard a loud squeak when I turned my wheel all the way, and went to the mechanic. He said that my power steering pump is going, and will have to be replaced at some point...it's not urgent now, but he said it's not in good shape. This will run me about $2,000, most likely...and since I mostly only drive to the 'T', food shopping, or back to N. Y., it's ridiculous and unaffordable...I just spent hundreds of dollars on other repairs the other week, and now this.

Do you think it's time for me to start considering getting rid of my car? I am moving to another place in a few weeks that will require me to keep it, but I might not stay there that long. This car is not even four years old and doesn't even have 40,000 miles on it.

[WorkInProgress]

I think it really depends on your overall situation. Having said that, I would be very uncomfortable owning a car that nickels and dimes the way yours seems to.

Also, does anyone know if the pump for power steering "usually" goes that soon in general, or in (what kind of car do you have again, yankee?)?

[Ciderhillnh]

Yankee....I take it you decided on a living situation.....what did you end up doing? PM me if you want.

[wordsmith]

I am the person who ignores most creaks my car makes.

[cache]

I think it is time to write some letters:

-dealer where you bought the car
-manufacturer
-BBB


Also, look into state lemon laws, and mention that in your letters. A car with 40K should not no way never have a PS pump going out.

And 2K for a PS pump? Dude, I could replace that in a few hours and a few hundred bucks. If that.


"Get mad at those damned eggs!!!!!!!" Seriously, it's time to get pissed, and get someone else to do something. When you write letters, be sure to include copies of receipts for all major work you have already had to do. Oh, yeah, mention that you are contacting some media organizations, and actually do so.

Your car is giving ME high blood pressure:madder:

[yankeeyosh]

I spoke to the mechanic again, and he said that it should last at least another year...as long as I take it easy.

I decided to take the original apartment that I looked at down the street...it's not convenient, but it's cheap. But if I eventually get rid of my car, I'll move to Cambridge or Somerville for sure.

[spokes]

i am assuming that you have checked the power steering fluid level and the belt?

$2,000 sounds like a lot for a p/s pump though. i can't imagine the pump being more than $400 so that would equate to almost two days of work (at ~$100/hr) to remove and reinstall.

As an aside it is usually not good to turn and hold your steering wheel at the extremes (left or right).

You might want to google your car to see what people's general expereince is with the p/s/ pump. I am somewhat surprised that your mechanic can put a timeline on the life of the pump though especially when it is "not in good shape".

[yankeeyosh]

As an aside it is usually not good to turn and hold your steering wheel at the extremes (left or right).

I learned that the hard way. That's why I have to live in an area where there's ample parking because when I park in tight spaces, I wind up turning the wheel all the way.

You might want to google your car to see what people's general expereince is with the p/s/ pump. I am somewhat surprised that your mechanic can put a timeline on the life of the pump though especially when it is "not in good shape".

He said it's not leaking or anything...just starting to get worn. He said I should monitor it in case it starts getting progressively worse. He said I should have no problem going at least another year with the current pump.

But does anyone have any advice? I only hear the noise if I make a sharp turn...do you think this might be a more serious condition?

[dacrunkest]

I am the person who ignores most creaks my car makes.

me too...my throwout bearing is squeeking faintly...solution? Turn up the radio! Of course, my car has run fine for over 100k and I know a squeeky throwout bearing is not a dire situation...probably just needs a lube.

[dacrunkest]

I learned that the hard way. That's why I have to live in an area where there's ample parking because when I park in tight spaces, I wind up turning the wheel all the way.



He said it's not leaking or anything...just starting to get worn. He said I should monitor it in case it starts getting progressively worse. He said I should have no problem going at least another year with the current pump.

But does anyone have any advice? I only hear the noise if I make a sharp turn...do you think this might be a more serious condition?

How well do you know your car?

[dacrunkest]

It amazes me that a car with as few miles (per previous postings on the subject) and with a quality reputation and warranty is having this many problems. Is the power steering system covered in your bumper-to-bumper warranty?

[yankeeyosh]

How well do you know your car?

What do you mean?

My car is running fine otherwise...I drove it this evening, and there were no problems controlling it. I made a U-turn, and had to turn the wheel the whole way, and then I heard the screech, but other than that, I didn't have any problems. The mechanic said it wasn't leaking...and I am definitely not going back to the dealer since he'll make it sound dire no matter what.

This all happened in the last two days...I didn't hear a thing otherwise.

I thought it might have had something to do with the new belts, which I replaced two weeks ago. Apparently, it's not.

[yankeeyosh]

I wonder if I should just stop making these repairs and just run it into the ground...if it dies at 50,000 miles, so be it. It was technically paid off over three years ago anyway...

[dacrunkest]

what I mean is how well do you know your car's systems?

I am assuming it's a 4 cylinder...inline and almost definitely transverse arrangement. The power steering pump could be pretty much anywhere...most likely buried down deep in the engine and difficult to get at. Not really a DIYer job anyway. What I mean to say is that when mechanics tell you that you need to get x or y replaced, can you hold your own in a conversation with them, or are you resorting to taking their word for it?

Unless it's a real lemon, no car should die at 50,000 miles. Is it covered under warranty?

[yankeeyosh]

what I mean is how well do you know your car's systems?

I am assuming it's a 4 cylinder...inline and almost definitely transverse arrangement. The power steering pump could be pretty much anywhere...most likely buried down deep in the engine and difficult to get at. Not really a DIYer job anyway. What I mean to say is that when mechanics tell you that you need to get x or y replaced, can you hold your own in a conversation with them, or are you resorting to taking their word for it?

Unless it's a real lemon, no car should die at 50,000 miles.

I know nothing about cars. I really don't have any friends who know about cars. The only one who might know about this stuff is one of my brother's friends, but alas, he doesn't live here.

[dacrunkest]

Well, I would urge urge urge you to check into your warranty. Hyundai's have one of the best warranties in the industry, and seeing as your car doesn't even have 50k, you should certainly be looking into replacement of bad systems. Raise all hell if you have to. On my Hyundai, the flywheel cracked and they replaced it free o' charge...and that was with 47k on it. I think you said your car is a 2003...is that right? It falls in the 5 year b-b range.

Second, have you been maintaining the vehicle properly...IE oil changes at all the right times, fluid changes, checkups and the like. It kinda sounds like you are being taken for a ride if every time you pull up they find something new to replace.

Third...if you have some spare time, learn about your car. Learn about the different systems. You can do it virtually free - a library card and internet access. It is not as complex as it seems...I know it seems very intimidating, but a little reading will do wonders. Note: I know people have different strengths in terms of what they grasp in learning, but I am of the mindset that if you put enough time in, you can suprise yourself what you can learn.

[yankeeyosh]

Well, I would urge urge urge you to check into your warranty. Hyundai's have one of the best warranties in the industry, and seeing as your car doesn't even have 50k, you should certainly be looking into replacement of bad systems. Raise all hell if you have to. On my Hyundai, the flywheel cracked and they replaced it free o' charge...and that was with 47k on it.

First of all, I had a major quarrel with the local dealer, and I am not returning to them again. I also have a terrible temper, and everytime I argue something like this, I lose it...and it comes back to haunt me.

Other than a few cosmetic things, the warranty has been nearly useless. I honestly think that whole hullabaloo about the warranty is nothing more than a joke.

Second, have you been maintaining the vehicle properly...IE oil changes at all the right times, fluid changes, checkups and the like. It kinda sounds like you are being taken for a ride if every time you pull up they find something new to replace.

Yes...I do whatever the manual tells me to do. This time, though, I think there's a problem because of that damn screech if I turn my wheel the whole way.

Third...if you have some spare time, learn about your car. Learn about the different systems. You can do it virtually free - a library card and internet access. It is not as complex as it seems...I know it seems very intimidating, but a little reading will do wonders. Note: I know people have different strengths in terms of what they grasp in learning, but I am of the mindset that if you put enough time in, you can suprise yourself what you can learn.

I should...

[dacrunkest]

First of all, I had a major quarrel with the local dealer, and I am not returning to them again. I also have a terrible temper, and everytime I argue something like this, I lose it...and it comes back to haunt me.


Well, I can't help you with the temper. But I can tell you this...you have a warranty, and it doesn't cover belts. You caught a bad break last time because a serpantine belt is considered regular maintenance and a "wear item". However, the power steering pump issue should be addressed under warranty. The dealer should know this, and if he/she is telling you that it isn't covered, contact Hyundai America (1-800-243-7766) and ask for written clarification as to why not.

Your Powertrain Warranty:

10 year/100,000 miles

Covers repair or replacement of powertrain components (i.e. selected Engine and Transmission/Transaxle components), originally manufactured or installed by Hyundai that are defective in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance. Coverage applies to Original Owner only effective with 2004 Model Year and newer model year vehicles. On 1999-2003 Model Years, coverage applies to Original Owner and immediate family members (i.e. wife, husband, daughter, son, stepdaughter, stepson).

Your Bumper-to-Bumper:

5 year/60,000 miles

Covers repair or replacement of any component manufactured or originally installed by Hyundai that is defective in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance.

Following components covered for time and mileage limits indicated:
- Radio And Sound Systems (i.e. radio, cassette tape drive mechanism, and compact disc player): 3 years / 36,000 miles
- Paint: 3 years/ 36,000 miles
- Battery: 3 years / unlimited miles (100% covered 2 years / unlimited miles; after 2 years and within 3 years, 25% cost of battery and 100% labor cost covered)
- Air Conditioner Refrigerant Charge: 1 year / unlimited miles
- Adjustments: 1 year / 12,000 miles
- Wear Items: 1 year / 12,000 miles (e.g. belts, brake pads & linings, clutch linings, filters, wiper blades, bulbs, fuses)

Based on this warranty policy language, it looks like power steering pump would fall under the Bumper to Bumper. The special limits defined in this section do not mention the power steering system, so the full limit of coverage applies. Wear items are obvious replacements and that is the reason for the limited coverage of 1/12,000.

It looks like the "named perils" under your warranty are defective workmanship, defective material, and most likely improper installation. Normal use and maintainence, as long as you have the appropriate records of oil changes and checkups should be easy to establish. I don't know what the service lifespan of a power steering pump is, but I have to imagine that it would last more than what you currently have put on your car. I would talk to Hyundai America and see what your options are.

Also, are you shopping around to different mechanics to get quotes on this. Also second opinions are very helpful. Did the dealer tell you that the power steering pump failed because of wear, or is it another reason? Is it possible that their was so kind of system fatigue because of a manufacturing flaw? What exactly is the problem with the pump? According to your original post, you have less than 40k on the car...something is going on here...I would be on the phone with either the dealer or Hyundai America about it. If there are bad parts in the car, they owe to fix them.

[yankeeyosh]

Well, I can't help you with the temper. But I can tell you this...you have a warranty, and it doesn't cover belts. You caught a bad break last time because a serpantine belt is considered regular maintenance and a "wear item". However, the power steering pump issue should be addressed under warranty. The dealer should know this, and if he/she is telling you that it isn't covered, contact Hyundai America (1-800-243-7766) and ask for written clarification as to why not.

Your Powertrain Warranty:

10 year/100,000 miles

Covers repair or replacement of powertrain components (i.e. selected Engine and Transmission/Transaxle components), originally manufactured or installed by Hyundai that are defective in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance. Coverage applies to Original Owner only effective with 2004 Model Year and newer model year vehicles. On 1999-2003 Model Years, coverage applies to Original Owner and immediate family members (i.e. wife, husband, daughter, son, stepdaughter, stepson).

Your Bumper-to-Bumper:

5 year/60,000 miles

Covers repair or replacement of any component manufactured or originally installed by Hyundai that is defective in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance.

Following components covered for time and mileage limits indicated:
- Radio And Sound Systems (i.e. radio, cassette tape drive mechanism, and compact disc player): 3 years / 36,000 miles
- Paint: 3 years/ 36,000 miles
- Battery: 3 years / unlimited miles (100% covered 2 years / unlimited miles; after 2 years and within 3 years, 25% cost of battery and 100% labor cost covered)
- Air Conditioner Refrigerant Charge: 1 year / unlimited miles
- Adjustments: 1 year / 12,000 miles
- Wear Items: 1 year / 12,000 miles (e.g. belts, brake pads & linings, clutch linings, filters, wiper blades, bulbs, fuses)

Based on this warranty policy language, it looks like power steering pump would fall under the Bumper to Bumper. The special limits defined in this section do not mention the power steering system, so the full limit of coverage applies. Wear items are obvious replacements and that is the reason for the limited coverage of 1/12,000.

It looks like the "named perils" under your warranty are defective workmanship, defective material, and most likely improper installation. Normal use and maintainence, as long as you have the appropriate records of oil changes and checkups should be easy to establish. I don't know what the service lifespan of a power steering pump is, but I have to imagine that it would last more than what you currently have put on your car. I would talk to Hyundai America and see what your options are.

Also, are you shopping around to different mechanics to get quotes on this. Also second opinions are very helpful. Did the dealer tell you that the power steering pump failed because of wear, or is it another reason? Is it possible that their was so kind of system fatigue because of a manufacturing flaw? What exactly is the problem with the pump? According to your original post, you have less than 40k on the car...something is going on here...I would be on the phone with either the dealer or Hyundai America about it. If there are bad parts in the car, they owe to fix them.


Yeah, I saw that. I think the definition of "defective" will come into play, though.

But the more I think about it, the more you might be right. The other things that I had to get fixed (like belts and tires) were either NOT manufactured by Hyundai or were past the subclauses of the warranty. If so, you could save me hundreds and hundreds of dollars (if not thousands). :)

Thanks!

[pepsi91307]

Yeah, I saw that. I think the definition of "defective" will come into play, though.

But the more I think about it, the more you might be right. The other things that I had to get fixed (like belts and tires) were either NOT manufactured by Hyundai or were past the subclauses of the warranty. If so, you could save me hundreds and hundreds of dollars (if not thousands). :)

Thanks!

Let us know how Hyundai handles your warranty inquiries. I'm sure there are Hyundai owners on the board who would be interested.

Goodluck

[yankeeyosh]

Last night, I went to get groceries. The second I turned on my ignition...with no wheel turning, my car was squealing. So I think that's the end of it. I actually called Hyundai, and they said it IS under warranty. So, I sucked it up and brought it to the dealer to check it out. I pray it won't cost me anything, but since I brought it to the dealer, who is notorious for providing laundry lists of problems, I fear this will cost me a small fortune in the end.

I have a feeling today will be a bad day.

[yankeeyosh]

The dealer told me the problem was not the pump...it was the belts. He said they have to be Hyundai (not aftermarket) belts. So he's charging me $45 for the diagnosis, and if I decide to take it in, not only will I have to pay $220 for new belts, but I will lose the $130 I just spent on belts. The mechanic who put the belts on but said it was the pump said he will look at it tomorrow. Should I just trust the mechanic who put the belts on?

[yankeeyosh]

Anyone?

[spokes]

i'd be stunned if Hyndai belts are that much better than aftermarket belts.

but if you recently replaced the belts with aftermarket one, then i think that the place where you had them replaced should do something for you. in some cases squeaky blets can be fixed with some "belt dressing" which lubricates the belt and the pulley - but that being said i have never looked under thhood of a hyndai.

also one other piece of advice, and i am assuming that you may already be aware of this, but people are car dealerships might be more inclined to work with you (i.e. cut you a deal) if you are nice to them and treat them how you would like to be treated. i routinely am able to get 10% to 15% off of some of my larger repair bills because i rountinely take my truck to be serviced at the smae place and i ask nicely if there is any wiggle room in their price. it's the old you get more flies with honey than vinegar.

[cache]

Of course that Hyundai's standard line....they would say that if you replaced your cigarette lighter..."Well, it's not a genuine Hyundai cigarette lighter, that's why it doesn't work."

Belts is belts, IME. Since you do not have a self tensioning belt, belt dressing is OK to use. But I would take it back to the place that replaced them originally, and ask them what's up.

[analogman]

You are in a bit of a sticky spot since the mechanic put on aftermarket belts. Did you know he was doing that? He could very well be right it's the pump (and replaced the belts because perhaps it was time?). However, if you have aftermarket belts on, the dealer will probably want to put Hyundai ones on. If you still have a problem after that and it's the pump, then they might replace it for you under warranty. Save the receipt from when you got the belt changed (previously) and the diagnosis. Hopefully Hyundai won't say "You used aftermarket belts and as a result the pump went bad so we won't replace it under warranty."

At any rate, you should have a conversation with the previous mechanic (especially if he put on aftermarket belts when you wanted Hyundai belts).

[pisces2473]

And this is why we don't buy Hyundai.

[pepsi91307]

And this is why we don't buy Hyundai.

I say it's a case be case basis. My 99 Hyundai Tiburon has been perfect, I'm at 103,000 miles and its running perfectly.

[yankeeyosh]

Car problem is finally solved...mechanic took care of it, I got car back, everything sounds good :) Next time, I'll trust the mechanic instead of going back to the dealership (and I didn't come ou't unscathed by them...another $45 out the window on a diagnostic check)

[computer guy]

I don't know that I'd go back to the mechanic that told you that your power steering pump was going even if they did fix your belts that were improperly installed. It is obvious they do not know what they are doing with your car.

The dealer is nickel and diming you for that diagnoses and you should explain to the mechanic that installed the belts that he/she cost you $45 due to the bad work. That shop actually owes you that money.

Next time, for most maintence items you will need to go to a Hundai dealer. They can claim your warrenty is void if not. Once you put 100K on the car or own it for 10 years, you can take it where ever you want for maintence. However, you do not have to go to the dealer that you bought the car from, any Hondai dealer should be authorized.

Also I just found out that the dealer for my car charges less for some maintence than the independent shop I was going to use. It also turns out that after looking at the information on the internet and my car book, I'll probably do the job myself (my car has 130K on it so no warrenty remains).