Seventy hour work weeks the new norm?

[yankeeyosh]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17030672/

I think this will get only worse. I see no sign of this shifting.

[SmilesSoSweet]

I wouldn't even think about working that many hours a week no matter how much I'd get paid and how much I like my job.

Just this week I worked 9 hours on Monday (standard day) 13 on Tuesday, 16 on Wednesday and 12 today. I still have a half day tomorrow to work as well.

As much as I do bitch and complain about working overtime, it doesn't happen all too often and I don't want it to. I do know that I won't work overtime if I don't get paid for it. Fortunately my work does pay time and a half to full time, salaried employees. But that also doesn't mean I want to work overtime just for the money either.

Having all these long work days back to back prevents me from getting a couple of good workouts in. I'd rather have that time to work out than spend the time at work getting paid OT.

[vxmike]

I work a routine 72 hours per week minimum and up from there, but as an hourly worker I'm compensated for all my time. Nothing wrong with that.

Salaried people putting in 50+ hour weeks are just suckers. No other way to put it.

[nikorock28]

I work a routine 72 hours per week minimum and up from there, but as an hourly worker I'm compensated for all my time. Nothing wrong with that.

Salaried people putting in 50+ hour weeks are just suckers. No other way to put it.

I agree. Any hours worked above and beyond 40 should be compensated for at 1.5 times regular wage. Also, it should be optional for employees to work overtime. Of course, that is not how reality is in a lot cases.

[PenforPrez]

Beautiful thing is, if I was ever forced to work 70ish hours regularly, I'd be in the hospital from severe exhaustion shortly thereafter. I simply do not have the physical energy for it.

Paul

[29 forever]

"Sixty-four percent of those surveyed said their work pressures are self-inflicted but say it is taking a real toll on them individually. Nationally, 70 percent, and globally, 81 percent, say their jobs undermine their health in terms of exercise, diet and the impact of stress. Nationally, 46 percent, and globally, 59 percent, say it gets in the way of their relationships and nationally, 50 percent, say it affects their sex life."

Morons, plain and simple.

When they have thier first heart attack before the age of 40, maybe they'll change their ways. This happened to an uncle of mine who was a corporate attorney at one time. The stress of his job and the extreme hours landed him in the hospital with a major coronary at age 36. It was at that point that he realized "What's this all for?" He was making serious bank, but knew if it killed him, that he wouldn't be able to take it all with him.

I think we need to be more like the French with their 35 hour work weeks, and 6 weeks of vacation per year. People are happier, healthier there, and have a higher quality of life.

[nikorock28]

"Sixty-four percent of those surveyed said their work pressures are self-inflicted but say it is taking a real toll on them individually. Nationally, 70 percent, and globally, 81 percent, say their jobs undermine their health in terms of exercise, diet and the impact of stress. Nationally, 46 percent, and globally, 59 percent, say it gets in the way of their relationships and nationally, 50 percent, say it affects their sex life."

Morons, plain and simple.

When they have thier first heart attack before the age of 40, maybe they'll change their ways. This happened to an uncle of mine who was a corporate attorney at one time. The stress of his job and the extreme hours landed him in the hospital with a major coronary at age 36. It was at that point that he realized "What's this all for?" He was making serious bank, but knew if it killed him, that he wouldn't be able to take it all with him.

I think we need to be more like the French with their 35 hour work weeks, and 6 weeks of vacation per year. People are happier, healthier there, and have a higher quality of life.

I agree. Unfortunately, to reach your career goals nowadays it is pretty much expected that you have to go above and beyond for your work. I have never understood this mentality.

[29 forever]

I agree. Unfortunately, to reach your career goals nowadays it is pretty much expected that you have to go above and beyond for your work. I have never understood this mentality.

Yes, it's unfortunate. However, I'm sure no one who is on their deathbed in old age who is looking back on thier lives would say "I wish I would have spent more time working." Maybe some completely insane Type A's would say this, but that's it.

[nikorock28]

Yes, it's unfortunate. However, I'm sure no one who is on their deathbed in old age who is looking back on thier lives would say "I wish I would have spent more time working." Maybe some completely insane Type A's would say this, but that's it.

I absolutely agree. I also think it is unfortunate that Type A personalities are rewarded in the society we live in. When I was working (unemployed now), I was taking a Monday off and I was asked what plans I had for the weekend on Friday. I told them I had no plans, just to relax and get in some good workouts. People look at you like you are an alien when you tell them this stuff. It seems like people always expect you to be busy and always have something to do. We ALWAYS have to have career goals and aspirations. If you are content in the position you are in and are not particularly interested in moving up, people deem you as a slacker. If you are not sure what "career" you want, you are deemed as unmotivated. If you don't want the big house, fancy car, 2.1 kids and white picket fence, you are somehow not normal.

[29 forever]

If you don't want the big house, fancy car, 2.1 kids and white picket fence, you are somehow not normal.

You'd be amazed at the number of people who have this so-called "good life" that are depressed and unfulfilled.

BTW: Best of luck to you on finding a job, it's hard out there.

[nikorock28]

You'd be amazed at the number of people who have this so-called "good life" that are depressed and unfulfilled.

BTW: Best of luck to you on finding a job, it's hard out there.

Thanks man. I'm trying to learn how the professional/real world operates.

[SunDevil]

I think that we should go in the direction of France and have 35 hour work weeks.

You might not make as much money, but you would be healthier probably.

And I agree that the number of people who start looking for a new job the day after they get fired is weird. I guess you have to when you have a mortgage to pay and all your savings wrapped into your house. Where I plan to go on a 4 month European backpacking/bike vacation after I am done with this job in a few years.

[PenforPrez]

It seems like people always expect you to be busy and always have something to do. We ALWAYS have to have career goals and aspirations. If you are content in the position you are in and are not particularly interested in moving up, people deem you as a slacker. If you are not sure what "career" you want, you are deemed as unmotivated. If you don't want the big house, fancy car, 2.1 kids and white picket fence, you are somehow not normal.

That's what bugs me. The consumer culture in this country has just gone absolutely berserk and has now expanded to include all intangible possibilities (love, friendship, etc.). We're expected to want EVERYTHING in this society, and if not, something has to be wrong with you. It's just sick, especially in the lengths we will go to support lifestyles we don't need and can't afford.

I've told this story before, but it was like when I told my therapist I didn't want everything. She immediately proclaimed me to be her most mentally healthy client. All I could do was give this flabbergasted look. :rolleyes:

Paul

[wordsmith]

Thanks man. I'm trying to learn how the professional/real world operates.

One thing you need to really keep in mind is that "the professional world" doesn't operate any one way. There are career sectors that will DEMAND that you work well upwards of a full-time work week. There are ones that won't. There are jobs that are cutthroat and competition driven. There are ones that are not. Work environments vary a great deal, and while job availability often presents us with the idea that we need to take whatever we can get, just to be employed, it's good to remember that the choice is yours. You don't have to pursue something in a high-pressure environment if that's not what you prefer.

[sondra_finchley]

There is some benefit to the European models, but it would never fly here- there tends to be a lot of unemployment/rigid labor markets with lots of red tape and high taxes etc etc etc. What the Europeans havent lost yet is their sense of how to live- they dont need a whole long grocery store aisle for cereal or 10 different types of colored toothpaste from 4 different brands. They dont need/cant afford a huge SUV and the gas to go in it, a huge crappy McMansion, or yet another strip mall. Here weve seemingly become defined by our "stuff"- how much and what you own (and what it costs) is more important than just living a comfortable life with family and friends. Sure, some of the larger cities display plenty of excess, but there isnt a huge disparity between the rich and the poor.

A story: Spanish friend of mine went to university for engineering in Germany. Since January it just so happened that both of us were looking for employment at the same time. Granted, he is in a profession that is in demand, but he was hired on Tuesday to start this Thursday (yesterday) for Rolls Royce in Berlin. He didnt have to go through the background check, drug test, credit check, and reference check bullshit that we all have to go through here in the US. I told him Tuesday right after he got the hiring news that I was shocked he didnt have to wait for all that crap to happen. He said its because Germany wasnt a massive police state like the US :P. He started out with 30 days holiday on top of state holidays and 36K Euro salary. True, quite a bit of that salary will get siphoned off for taxes, but he doesnt have to worry about not having adequate medical care, falling into a hole of not having coverage should he become unemployed, paying back student loans, working himself into the ground, or anything like what you deal with here in the "real world" in the US. Oh, and they have a pretty decent public transport system there too, that negates any real need for a car ( unless you want to pay $8 a gallon for gas). Made me jealous for sure!

[Winter Storm]

I don't know a single person that works this many hours in a week.

[yankeeyosh]

I don't know a single person that works this many hours in a week.

I don't know...I think it's fairly rampant...maybe not seventy, but at least fifty five. And it seems people are "proud" of it...in personal ads, for instance, I consistently see people "boast" about how they work long hours...like it's a badge of honor or something.

[wordsmith]

There is a HUGE difference between 55 and 70.

I also don't think people are really probably boasting about working long workweeks in personals ads, I think they're probably laying it out there that their free time is at a premium, so that anybody they date comes in knowing that it will be something to take into account.

[Learjet434]

I know of several people who work 70hrs or there about each week. Some of them enjoy it and a few of them are only doing it temporarily to build experience (3-5 years) and then moving on to something else. It can be worth it to work that many hours in some professions.

[wordsmith]

There is a HUGE difference between 55 and 70.

There's a big difference between 55 and 70 hour work weeks.

Haaaaaa!

[PenforPrez]

There's a big difference between 55 and 70 hour work weeks.

Stay alive at 55. :p

[cache]

Hey, I am only responsible for my life. I make a good salary, and work a 40 hour week. I would never consider a position working more than 50. If that means I have to sacrafice a future promotion, so be it.

And if others feel compelled to work that many hours, let them. It just means a more efficient economy and cheaper goods and services for me.:D

[wordsmith]

And if others feel compelled to work that many hours, let them. It just means a more efficient economy and cheaper goods and services for me.

My working hours in addition to 40 doesn't change the cost of my paper for the consumer. All it has to do with is the scope/depth of the coverage.

[cache]

My working hours in addition to 40 doesn't change the cost of my paper for the consumer. All it has to do with is the scope/depth of the coverage.

It increases the value of the paper. Same thing as lowering the cost.

[EmberMae]

I think that we should go in the direction of France and have 35 hour work weeks.

You might not make as much money, but you would be healthier probably.

And I agree that the number of people who start looking for a new job the day after they get fired is weird. I guess you have to when you have a mortgage to pay and all your savings wrapped into your house. Where I plan to go on a 4 month European backpacking/bike vacation after I am done with this job in a few years.
Agreed x100. I'd love to see shorter work weeks in the U.S. we work more hours per week and more weeks per year than any other first-world nation, including Japan. And we wonder why we have so many problems with obesity. Seriously.

It cracked me up--we had a meeting to approve a new employee handbook. I work at a nonprofit and we don't have an in house HR staff so we hired an HR consultant. Anyway, she was definately of the "workers who want time off are lazy" model and convinced the CFO to lower benefits. She thought giving 10 holidays and 15 days PTO (combined vacation/sick) was overly generous. She actually said, that's FIVE WEEKS OFF for a NEW EMPLOYEE and acted like it was the most ridiculous thing she'd ever heard of, and that good employees like her don't have the time to take that time off even if they have it. I LOLed and imagined telling her what a European would think of that. Hell my fiance gets 20 vacation days 3 personal days and 6 sick days, plus the federal holidays.

I've pretty much accepted that I'm never going to go places with my career because I am not willing to work constant overtime. If I need to then they need to hire more people. I learned after teaching to keep a certain level of detachment from my job and save my home time for me. I still feel crunched, though, because 9 hours a day plus 90 minutes of commuting is still A LOT of time to spend at work, and I spend a good of my home time cooking and cleaning and running errands. I rarely just relax, which is what I really need.

Oh and regarding looking for a new job the minute you lose your old one...when HR people immediately eliminate anyone with a "gap" you don't have many options there. If you take ANY time off from the corporate world, even if you have saved the money to do so and CAN AFFORD TO, you're seen as irresponsible and untrustworthy.

[wordsmith]

It increases the value of the paper. Same thing as lowering the cost.

Not especially.

[texasgirl]

Honestly, this is why I will never work in the corporate world. My identity is partially based on my career, so I will never be able to be one of those people who just "leave it all" at work. (Heck, I'm going to be a teacher, so I probably wouldn't be able to leave it even if I wanted to.) But, I do have a real problem with putting in tons and tons of hours without any break (and, thankfully, teaching does have breaks) and for no apparent purpose. I'm like Paul -- I seriously do not want it all because I think the pursuit would make me crazy. All I need to be happy is my family, friends, and a good work-life balance. No fancy house, car, clothes, job title could ever do it for me.

[mishl982]

I think that we should go in the direction of France and have 35 hour work weeks.
Or 9/80! Since my company switched over to this I really really enjoy having every other Friday off and getting a 3-day weekend every other week. My 9 hour days don't feel long anymore, just normal.

I don't know a single person that works this many hours in a week.
I was going to say that all my program managers do... but they goof off all day and play golf a lot so it's probably only like 50 hours worth of work ;)

[SunDevil]

Oh and regarding looking for a new job the minute you lose your old one...when HR people immediately eliminate anyone with a "gap" you don't have many options there. If you take ANY time off from the corporate world, even if you have saved the money to do so and CAN AFFORD TO, you're seen as irresponsible and untrustworthy.

I plan on starting my own business next. I'll give it a year or 18 months to see if it will work. They don't need to know that I wasn't sitting at home in the USA when I was planning my business model and figuring out a plan of action. ;)

On my resume, it will look like I took a chance at starting my own business, but it didn't work out. If it does work out, I won't have to deal with HR anymore.

[SunDevil]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20070226/sc_livescience/americanshatetheirjobsmorethanever

I have had this page up for the past few days on my computer. I think it is relevant.

I like my job most days. :)

And I have worked over 70 hours a week sometimes when I am traveling for business. I can handle it for a week or two if I take a vacation afterwards to relax.

[CTGirl]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20070226/sc_livescience/americanshatetheirjobsmorethanever

I have had this page up for the past few days on my computer. I think it is relevant.



Cute, but the opposite of the research that I've been reading.

[capella]

Salaried people putting in 50+ hour weeks are just suckers. No other way to put it.
I guess I'm just a sucker then. :rolleyes: I think this statement is a little offensive. It depends on what field you are in. I know that I have spent many weeks working over 50 hours in the last 3 years since I started teaching. I am annoyed that that much time over 37.5 hours is just expected, but that is what the job is and I won't be half-assed about it. My workload has leveled off somewhat since moving back to middle school, but I still have about 100 essays to grade this weekend. That is not paid time for me. I do get summers off though, but that's sort of the consolation prize and it's constantly being held over my head, too.

[yankeeyosh]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20070226/sc_livescience/americanshatetheirjobsmorethanever

I have had this page up for the past few days on my computer. I think it is relevant.

I like my job most days. :)

And I have worked over 70 hours a week sometimes when I am traveling for business. I can handle it for a week or two if I take a vacation afterwards to relax.

Fairly consistent with other reports I have seen.

Toss me into the "disgruntled" pile.

[SmilesSoSweet]

I ended up working 54 hours this week. I'm just really, really tired and it'll take me a couple days to readjust and catch up on sleep and stuff.

I don't ever want this to be my weekly routine either. I can't imagine working 70 hours in a week either!

[CTGirl]

Fairly consistent with other reports I have seen.

Toss me into the "disgruntled" pile.

What kind of reports are you reading? People tend to read things that enforce the beliefs that they already hold.

Employee Satisfaction is my life, so I can tell you that this is not an actual trend.

[pepsi91307]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17030672/

I think this will get only worse. I see no sign of this shifting.


The part I personally hate most about this trend, based stricly on personal experiences and what I've heard from friends is... when one works hectic hours... 50, 60, 70, 80 hours whatever the case may be, in many instances, it is hardly even recognized as going above and beyond the call of duty. Since everyone else that wants to get ahead seems to be there there with you, it just seems "normal". You're just doing what's necessary to get the job done.

But as others have stated correctly, it is onces choice to take part in this race, and while easier said than done, one can explore options when necessary.

I myself am not quite sure what the solution is however.

[yankeeyosh]

I ended up working 54 hours this week. I'm just really, really tired and it'll take me a couple days to readjust and catch up on sleep and stuff.

I don't ever want this to be my weekly routine either. I can't imagine working 70 hours in a week either!

Yeah, but didn't you have a couple of sixteen hour days in there? That's two work days in one...that can be brutal...even if you don't work all five days.

[yankeeyosh]

What kind of reports are you reading? People tend to read things that enforce the beliefs that they already hold.

Employee Satisfaction is my life, so I can tell you that this is not an actual trend.

A Wm. Mercer survey, for one, that came out a couple of years ago showed the same results.

[nikorock28]

Fairly consistent with other reports I have seen.


Same here. Just look around and see how rude a lot of people are... probably much of it stems from their job dissatisfaction. Also, I think more and more people are hating their jobs than ever because of the materialism and high cost of living of this day and age. People are forced to work longer hours, so, naturally, they become dissatisfied. Society tells us that the American Dream is to own more and more. If we can't meet these expectations, that must mean we are not getting paid enough... which, again, leads dissatisfaction of someone's work. Obviously, these are generalizations, but I think there is much truth to it.

[nikorock28]

I ended up working 54 hours this week. I'm just really, really tired and it'll take me a couple days to readjust and catch up on sleep and stuff.

I don't ever want this to be my weekly routine either. I can't imagine working 70 hours in a week either!

Yeah, I would never want to work 54 hours a week on a consistent basis.

[CTGirl]

A Wm. Mercer survey, for one, that came out a couple of years ago showed the same results.

We've had this debate before, but I'll just say that you cant always believe everything you read.

[nikorock28]

We've had this debate before, but I'll just say that you cant always believe everything you read.

No, you can't. But, if it matches with your personal experience, it is probably correct. Or, at the very least, there is much truth to it.

[CTGirl]

No, you can't. But, if it matches with your personal experience, it is probably correct. Or, at the very least, there is much truth to it.

I'm not gonna argue with you guys too much here, cuz you both seem very devoted to this position, but this is my field, the people doing this research and presenting at SIOP are my coworkers, so I do have a bit of knowledge about this stuff.

[nikorock28]

I'm not gonna argue with you guys too much here, cuz you both seem very devoted to this position, but this is my field, the people doing this research and presenting at SIOP are my coworkers, so I do have a bit of knowledge about this stuff.

So, you are claiming the surveys Mark cited are bunk? If you have other surveys, please post them. I am not arguing, just trying to uncover the truth. :)

[CTGirl]

So, you are claiming the surveys Mark cited are bunk? If you have other surveys, please post them. I am not arguing, just trying to uncover the truth. :)

There is no "truth" thats what I'm saying. This is very subjective stuff we're talking about here. Sure there are other studies out there, and no, I'm sorry, I dont keep them in my pocket to pull out at opportune times, lol.

All I'm trying to say here, is that if there was actually a valid trend toward employees being less satisfied at work than previously, I would have heard about it, but in fact, I've heard murmurs of the opposite being true.

There are tons of companies out there who are able to keep their employees extremely satisfied today, and there are a variety of reasons (more women in the work force, more flexibility in job situations, etc) that employees can be more satisfied than they once were.

[nikorock28]

There is no "truth" thats what I'm saying. This is very subjective stuff we're talking about here. Sure there are other studies out there, and no, I'm sorry, I dont keep them in my pocket to pull out at opportune times, lol.

All I'm trying to say here, is that if there was actually a valid trend toward employees being less satisfied at work than previously, I would have heard about it, but in fact, I've heard murmurs of the opposite being true.

There are tons of companies out there who are able to keep their employees extremely satisfied today, and there are a variety of reasons (more women in the work force, more flexibility in job situations, etc) that employees can be more satisfied than they once were.

This is not subjective, there either is a trend or isn't there. If you are unable to locate other surveys to the contrary, then I can only go by what I have seen. What makes you think you would have heard about it? In another thread, you never heard of anyone working more than one job, but many people do.

Yes, of course there are tons of companies that keep their employees satisfied; this is only because there are tons of companies. Many more people change companies as the wind blows these days; that fact cannot be disputed. People aren't lifers at companies like they used to be. If more people are changing companies than used to, wouldn't that point towards a greater degree of dissatisfaction?

[shadeofgreen]

Maybe I just live in an area of the country that doesn't have the same cutthroat corporate culture as other places, but I don't see the 70 hour workweeks happening. Even my career-oriented coworkers don't go that crazy.

For me, personally, I have a job with a light workload (and a paycheck that reflects that.) I am technically an hourly worker but we don't have time clocks or anything, so I'm willing to bet I almost never actually work that many hours. If all my work is done and my boss has left for the day I'm not sticking around just to breathe the air for my allotted hours. That could be a telling statement about my work ethic, but this hasn't been a habit until I started working at my current job.

If I wanted to get ahead in the company I guess I'd put in extra hours doing SOMETHING, but as it is I'm just there to do a job, and when that job is done I'm going home, probably to scour the papers and the internet for a job in an industry or at a company where I will have the desire to work to get ahead.

I don't know about 70 hours a week, though. The only time I ever worked close to that was when I was working for horse trainers. But that's way different from spending 70 hours a week under fluorescent lighting.

[wordsmith]

Maybe I just live in an area of the country that doesn't have the same cutthroat corporate culture as other places, but I don't see the 70 hour workweeks happening. Even my career-oriented coworkers don't go that crazy.


Same, here. I'm seen as the resident workaholic, at an average of 50 or so hours a week. When I started five and a half years ago, I was averaging 60, but have knocked it down a bit with a combination of getting more efficient and learning not to be Johnny on the spot for every possible coverage request that comes up...shaved off about 10 hours a week by not trying to do absolutely everything that comes my way, but saying, "Nope, not happening." But for a while, I was afraid that not doing it all would reflect poorly on me and my work ethic. Even so, by working more than 40 regularly, I'm really actually an anomaly. The (decidedly less corporate than most) culture of my field and the area where I live are just not that way. And, in my case, working extra hours is not a matter of trying to grunt my way up the ladder, it's just what's needed to get the job done and done well. I'm already at the top, there's nowhere else to go without leaving. And it's not an office job, either, many of those hours are out in the field. 50 hours seems less grueling when it's involving traveling around and doing different types of things, not simply sitting at a desk staring at a monitor.

[SmilesSoSweet]

Yeah, but didn't you have a couple of sixteen hour days in there? That's two work days in one...that can be brutal...even if you don't work all five days.

My work week was like this:

9 hours on Monday (that's my usual work day)
13 hours on Tuesday
16 on Wednesday
12 on Thursday
and 4 Friday (Half day Fridays)

And even though I do get paid overtime (and I'm also on salary) I still do not ever want this to be the norm.

[mishl982]

I ended up working 54 hours this week. I'm just really, really tired and it'll take me a couple days to readjust and catch up on sleep and stuff.

I don't ever want this to be my weekly routine either. I can't imagine working 70 hours in a week either!
When I worked my crazy proposal assistant job working almost 60 hours a week, all I wanted to do was sleep in my free time. Luckily that gig only lasted a few months! I don't know what it was like for all the program managers with families who would work longer days than me!

[CTGirl]

This is not subjective, there either is a trend or isn't there. If you are unable to locate other surveys to the contrary, then I can only go by what I have seen. What makes you think you would have heard about it? In another thread, you never heard of anyone working more than one job, but many people do.

Yes, of course there are tons of companies that keep their employees satisfied; this is only because there are tons of companies. Many more people change companies as the wind blows these days; that fact cannot be disputed. People aren't lifers at companies like they used to be. If more people are changing companies than used to, wouldn't that point towards a greater degree of dissatisfaction?

LOL, okay, you're absolutely right, you win, my degrees and experience in this field, and my daily interactions with experts in this area mean absolutely nothing, and you certainly know more about how this sort of thing works than me, I'm sorry to have contradicted you. :exclaim:

and as for that other thread, I never said that I had "never heard of anyone working more than one job" at all, but said that I didnt know anyone who did (or thats what I meant at least) and then went on to correct myself, as my own sister works 2 jobs.

[nikorock28]

LOL, okay, you're absolutely right, you win, my degrees and experience in this field, and my daily interactions with experts in this area mean absolutely nothing, and you certainly know more about how this sort of thing works than me, I'm sorry to have contradicted you. :exclaim:

and as for that other thread, I never said that I had "never heard of anyone working more than one job" at all, but said that I didnt know anyone who did (or thats what I meant at least) and then went on to correct myself, as my own sister works 2 jobs.

Please, CTGirl, don't turn all sarcastic on me. I don't claim to be an expert, I just know what I have read in newspapers, magazines, online, etc. and it is consistent with the common sense of people always changing jobs (even careers), relocating, jumping companies, etc. If you are the expert, PROVE ME WRONG. I will gladly accept to be wrong. Your original response was that you have been reading research that was directly opposite to the surveys Mark cited. Yet, you somehow cannot provide a source, reference, link, crumpled up napkin... if this is your life, shouldn't you know where to locate such information? If your degree and experience is in this field, how hard is to come up with SOMETHING, ANYTHING that points to what you are arguing? So far, you have produced NOTHING as far as concrete evidence goes. If nobody shows me evidence to the contrary, then I can only use common sense to deduce something. If my common sense is wrong, please show me.

EDIT: Please read this: http://www.conference-board.org/utilities/pressDetail.cfm?press_ID=2582
EDIT: Please read this: http://www.forbes.com/2003/01/24/cz_jg_0124work.html

[Syracuse]

I work 37.5 hrs a week, 8 hours each day with lunch. Sometimes I go over that a little and get paid for it, once in a while an hour or two of OT. I need my me time though. I do need more vacation time tho, a month a year would be good, I mean back in the day when I was a kid I got two months for summer, and I didn't turn into an anarchist. Life is too short to spend it working.

[redav]

Actually, 20/20 did a story on some topics like this a while back. They found that people think they aren't doing well, that their jobs stink, that they have no free time, but in reality they have more free time, life is easier, etc. They did not deny that people continue to think that things are getting worse and that their own situation is bad, but that was the interesting part--and I don't remember an explanation being given--people's perceptions don't match up with reality. I'm sure there are many, many theories trying to explain why this is happening, but I know of nothing definitive.

[Syracuse]

Actually, 20/20 did a story on some topics like this a while back. They found that people think they aren't doing well, that their jobs stink, that they have no free time, but in reality they have more free time, life is easier, etc. They did not deny that people continue to think that things are getting worse and that their own situation is bad, but that was the interesting part--and I don't remember an explanation being given--people's perceptions don't match up with reality. I'm sure there are many, many theories trying to explain why this is happening, but I know of nothing definitive.
One question, was it that idiot John Stossel?

[CTGirl]

Please, CTGirl, don't turn all sarcastic on me. I don't claim to be an expert, I just know what I have read in newspapers, magazines, online, etc. and it is consistent with the common sense of people always changing jobs (even careers), relocating, jumping companies, etc. If you are the expert, PROVE ME WRONG. I will gladly accept to be wrong. Your original response was that you have been reading research that was directly opposite to the surveys Mark cited. Yet, you somehow cannot provide a source, reference, link, crumpled up napkin... if this is your life, shouldn't you know where to locate such information? If your degree and experience is in this field, how hard is to come up with SOMETHING, ANYTHING that points to what you are arguing? So far, you have produced NOTHING as far as concrete evidence goes. If nobody shows me evidence to the contrary, then I can only use common sense to deduce something. If my common sense is wrong, please show me.

EDIT: Please read this: http://www.conference-board.org/utilities/pressDetail.cfm?press_ID=2582
EDIT: Please read this: http://www.forbes.com/2003/01/24/cz_jg_0124work.html

You're not listening to me.

My point is not that there's this magical wealth of data that says the opposite of what you're saying, what I am saying is that the research that you are quoting is not evidence of some horrible trend. I have the utmost respect for many of the companies that you and Mark have mentioned, but their data is really not all that compelling, despite what some clever writers have spun it into.

I don't keep research studies just sitting around, and I dont really have the time to go searching for you. That wouldnt solve anything anyhow, because as I said, that's not my point. The bottom line here, and the point that I have been trying to make is that when it comes to subjective things like this, there are always 2 sides to things, and the media (newspapers, magazines, etc) likes to spin things to gain public interest. As a result, we need to be a little wiser and not just listen to the interpretation that they give us of how they think the data looks, cuz they dont know anything about the subject, they know about selling stories.

[cache]

People aren't lifers at companies like they used to be. If more people are changing companies than used to, wouldn't that point towards a greater degree of dissatisfaction?

The divorce rate is higher than ever also. So are people automatically MORE dissatisfied, or could it be that our standards of personal satisfaction and fulfillment have gone up?

Maybe people aren't sticking aorund at companies because in the past "good enough" was good enough, now it is not...

[nikorock28]

Actually, 20/20 did a story on some topics like this a while back. They found that people think they aren't doing well, that their jobs stink, that they have no free time, but in reality they have more free time, life is easier, etc. They did not deny that people continue to think that things are getting worse and that their own situation is bad, but that was the interesting part--and I don't remember an explanation being given--people's perceptions don't match up with reality. I'm sure there are many, many theories trying to explain why this is happening, but I know of nothing definitive.

That sounds about right to me. There are definitely people out there that have good careers, make good money, perhaps generally enjoy their work, but feel they should be earning more, should be higher up in the company, etc. Perhaps they are comparing themselves to people that have even more than they have.

[nikorock28]

You're not listening to me.

My point is not that there's this magical wealth of data that says the opposite of what you're saying, what I am saying is that the research that you are quoting is not evidence of some horrible trend. I have the utmost respect for many of the companies that you and Mark have mentioned, but their data is really not all that compelling, despite what some clever writers have spun it into.

I don't keep research studies just sitting around, and I dont really have the time to go searching for you. That wouldnt solve anything anyhow, because as I said, that's not my point. The bottom line here, and the point that I have been trying to make is that when it comes to subjective things like this, there are always 2 sides to things, and the media (newspapers, magazines, etc) likes to spin things to gain public interest. As a result, we need to be a little wiser and not just listen to the interpretation that they give us of how they think the data looks, cuz they dont know anything about the subject, they know about selling stories.

Yeah, true, I definitely see what you are saying. It's always better for the media to play on the negative, rather than emphasize the positive. However, I still believe there is much truth to what the "negative" surveys revealed, based on common sense and my own perception.

[nikorock28]

The divorce rate is higher than ever also. So are people automatically MORE dissatisfied, or could it be that our standards of personal satisfaction and fulfillment have gone up?

Maybe people aren't sticking aorund at companies because in the past "good enough" was good enough, now it is not...

Ah, that's a very good point. I think people get a little dissatisfied and then jump ship because we are told "life is too short" and that "we have to look out for ourselves" and "you have so many options available... why stay somewhere when you can be happier elsewhere?" I think this applies in marriage as well as the workplace. I am not so sure that our standards have increased, it's just that there are more and more options, which leads to indecision and a lack of commitment. So, if something is not "good enough", we look for something that is good enough because it HAS to be out there somewhere. Just like there MUST be an ideal job for each one of us, which is probably overly optimistic. I think this ties into what redav posted.

[Xander]

I work 35 hours a week (full time, full benefits, salary, etc.)... but this might change soon.

[wordsmith]

Just like there MUST be an ideal job for each one of us, which is probably overly optimistic. I think this ties into what redav posted.

I think it also merits mention that people have very different concepts of what an "ideal" job is. People expect jobs to be 100% thrilling all the time...that's just not realistic, even with jobs you love, jobs that you're ideally suited to.