Was college a big waste of time?

[Lumburg]

I was reading this thread (http://www.gradgab.com/showthread.php?t=17) on another forum, and here's what it said:

Why is it that every single child in America is told to go to college? Why is it that parents, guidance counselors, and everyone else all think that college is the best path, and everything else is just a lousy back up plan?

Before I continue on with my rant, let me say a little about myself. I’m 25. I graduated from a state school in the north east in May of ’05. I didn’t know what the hell I was doing, so I picked something that seemed interesting, communications, and I majored in it. My parents, neither of whom went to college, thought it was great...their son was going to college!!! I figured I could get a job working for TV, radio, advertising or whatever...the people at school had a very long explanation about all the different things you could do with a communication degree.

To make a long story short, I graduated and ended up with around 15 grand in student loan debt. I applied to several places, and wasn’t offered anything. It seemed that they all wanted someone with at least a couple years of experience, which I didn’t have. I started temping to get by and eventually took on a permanent sales position with a food services company. I’m making around 30K a year now and working a little over 40 hours a week.

So as I reflect on my wonderful experience in college, I have wonder—WTF was it all for? I could have been doing this without a degree! A friend of mine who never even went to college is an electrician and is now making over 20 bucks an hour. Meanwhile, I, mr. college grad, am barely scraping by. I guess to really see the benefit of “education,” I’d have to get a master’s degree, because apparently a college degree doesn’t mean much these days.

Does anyone else think this entire situation is ridiculous? So many people are being shoved into college, taking on debt, and then not seeing any real benefit for their time, money and effort. I’m glad I went to a state school and only have 15 grand in debt. I’ve heard of people coming out with many times that. And all for what? What is so bad about being a mechanic? An electrician? A cook? Why has college become this thing everyone thinks you must have to succeed?

To be honest, if I could do it all over again, I wouldn’t even go to college. I’d pick a trade, like being an electrician, and start learning it after high school, or even do what I’m doing now without having wasted time getting a degree first. It just seems like the system here is designed to suck out money from students, not truly benefit them.

Okay, I’ll end my rant now...

Do you agree? I have to say, it's pretty damn common for college grads to work jobs that don't pay much more than stuff you could be doing without a degree.

The guy also posted this article (http://www.calbaptist.edu/dskubik/college.htm) which pretty much makes the argument most people don't benefit from college.

Is this just sour grapes or are they onto something?

[dacrunkest]

I don't think college is a waste. In fact, that notion goes against almost every fiber of my being. I didn't go to college to get a big cash bonus at the end of the tunnel in the form of some really high salary. College strengthed my skills in interpretive and analytical thinking. It offered and provided me with new ways to look at the world (particularly the arts). I don't have any regrets about making my monthly student loan payment because I place a higher premium on those things than I do my bank account or salary.

There is nothing wrong at all with being a tradesman. The skilled trades are fine, respectable jobs. But in my opinion the guy that you quoted is confusing two completely different things. Except for some of the highly specialized fields, college is not intended to be a trade school. It gives you more broad skills for success in a, well, holistic sense I guess you would say.

[and1grad]

I thought that was a VERY interesting article but rather than saying that college was unnecessary, it seems more like an indictment of colleges passing along students who probably wouldnt otherwise graduate in order to keep their graduation rates, and their enrollment numbers, up.

The functional literacy test was interesting also. They said the results suggested that people were pretty balanced in math and language comprehension tasks. I would think that people would tend to be stronger in one than the other.

I dont agree with the "opportunity" cost. The way they explain it assumes that a person could have gotten that same job, or a means of getting applicable experience, w/o the college degree. That only applies if the person winds up with a job they could've gotten in high school...but if the person had intended to get a job that they didnt need to attend college to get, they probably wouldnt go anyway.

Either way, that article is written to people who wasted their time in college. It also makes the assumption that college has no effect on a person's abilities.

[TinyDancer]

Yeah, gotta agree with dacrunkest.

I got A TON out of college. The classes really taught me a lot. . . but even more so, it taught me about working with people that were very different. . . people that had different backgrounds, work ethics, ways of thinking, etc. I didn't get a whole lot of this in high school. . . the people in my grade school & high school were much more homogenous, and we weren't forced to work in groups as much.

And then. . . what I learned outside of the classroom. . . that was just as important as what I learned in the classroom!

Also. . . I think with school (and sometimes work or almost anything in life). . . you get what you give.

[Millenial]

no i don't think it's a waste. i do think some aspects of it though are a waste. i also think college is ridicolously expensive.

i think the general education requirements were a waste of two years. that is my personal opinion.

i wish high school was more career oriented. i took italian, and their high schools are segregated by occupation. they also jump right into their fields in college, becoming professionals in much shorter time.
i think college does a poor job of preparing people for the workforce in regards to workplace culture, finding/maintaining a job, resumes. it makes you ready for academia imo and that is a disservice to those who don't want to become teachers.

this is all subjective of course.

personally i learned more outside the classroom at college than in it and i do agree with the poster who said you get what you put in. you definitely do.

[Millenial]

I don't think college is a waste. In fact, that notion goes against almost every fiber of my being. I didn't go to college to get a big cash bonus at the end of the tunnel in the form of some really high salary. College strengthed my skills in interpretive and analytical thinking. It offered and provided me with new ways to look at the world (particularly the arts). I don't have any regrets about making my monthly student loan payment because I place a higher premium on those things than I do my bank account or salary.

There is nothing wrong at all with being a tradesman. The skilled trades are fine, respectable jobs. But in my opinion the guy that you quoted is confusing two completely different things. Except for some of the highly specialized fields, college is not intended to be a trade school. It gives you more broad skills for success in a, well, holistic sense I guess you would say.that is where i think people clash. personally i see it more as a place to get a career. it's like the liberal arts view of college vs. business/engineering etc.

i was a liberal arts student and did appreciate the critical thinking skills and new ways of viewing things. i also realized that many people do not care for your opinions/views on things. they care about theirs or their superiors'. i feel like my education, while valued, didn't make me a more successful person than before i went. i personally believe it's your drive and passion. i made almost the same amount working at a grocery store before i went to college as i do now working in social services with a BA. So financially, for me, it is a little disheartening, but not something i regret.

[dacrunkest]

I don't think it's supposed to make you "slam-dunk" more successful in a job...I see college as a means of personal enrichment. That's where the success comes in. And I think a bit of the confusion exists because these days people think success means "success in your job". I think success is more encompasing...are you a good person, have you learned to appreciate what the world and its inhabitants have to offer, do you thirst for knowledge if that is your bag, etc...

Is anyone at my insurance company going to care that I have some insight into literature, or that I can write a song? Most likely not. But I value those things. They are important to me, and the reality that they may never be fully (or even partially) realized in the workplace does not make me value them any less...

[Lumburg]

I got A TON out of college. The classes really taught me a lot. . . but even more so, it taught me about working with people that were very different. . . people that had different backgrounds, work ethics, ways of thinking, etc. I didn't get a whole lot of this in high school. . . the people in my grade school & high school were much more homogenous, and we weren't forced to work in groups as much.

How applicable is this to most people, though? If you grow up in any sort of metropolitan area, then you'll be exposed to lots of different people, and certainly not all college students do lots of group activities.

[bridgetjones]

I do not think university was a big waste of time for me. I did not know what I wanted so I picked business. Yes a practical choice for a major. It is something that may payoff in the long run. I work in comfier conditions than most tradesppl and make an ok salary. There was fun to be had in uni. Could have had more fun tho... Boo...

Although I heard that for arts majors it takes a longer time to payoff but most do end up in good jobs. I guess for some ppl who do not know what they want it can be a waste. If you are not into it for the learning or a specific goal, then uni can be a waste and you might be better off being a tradesperson.

However even being a tradesperson now requires quite abit of education. Especially auto mechanics since that is becoming more and more complex. You do not want an undereducated person rewiring your house now do you? There are very few jobs out there that pay well that do not require some post secondary. Very very few...

[dacrunkest]

How applicable is this to most people, though? If you grow up in any sort of metropolitan area, then you'll be exposed to lots of different people, and certainly not all college students do lots of group activities.

It's applicable to many, many people. And I think tinydancer is dead on right. When I look back at what I was introduced to in college, it makes me happy that I attended. I can look back and point to some of the things I read, wrote, deconstructed, wrapped my head around, ect. and be proud of it. So for me it was worth every penny.

Theoretically I could have gone to the library and read every book that I did in college on a $.75 budget. But I am not convinced I would have gotten the same return I did from my days in school. My professors challenged me to step outside normal ways of thinking and see things differently. That is invaluable to me. But again, could be just a preference thing...

And I must confess that I never have had a huge issue, even though I have that "wasty" B.A., applying it to something. I do quite alright by my standards...I have a few small comforts in my life and I don't have much need for the grandiose. The things I crave are mostly free anyway.

[TinyDancer]

How applicable is this to most people, though? If you grow up in any sort of metropolitan area, then you'll be exposed to lots of different people, and certainly not all college students do lots of group activities.
Yeah, I see your point there. . . but even in metropolitan areas. . . at the high school level, how often were you put into groups to work on huge projects that affected more than 1/2 of your grade and had to spend more time with those people than your roommates? I was a business major though. . . and group projects were my life. That was way closer to the work environment I deal with now than anything I could have had in h.s. . . although, some high schools may give you more of this experience.

And then again. . . if you get a job right out of high school, maybe you don't need as much of this experience in your job.

For me, conflict managment, dealing with poor performers and people that don't carry their weight, working with different mangement styles, negotiation, etc. are key. . . and any experience I had with that came from college.

[and1grad]

I think all of my classes had some form of a group activity. It may not have been explicity designated as a group activity but it was always happening. I also think "Discussion" can kinda be considered a group activity. Not to mention study review sessions and the like.

[Sanman111]

Is college worth it?

I guess that depends on your view of things. In my opinion, the answer is not really, but you have little choice. Most of the union jobs that allowed people to have a decent life without a college degree are disappearing. Many of these jobs (sales, police, data processing, etc) are requiring college degrees to advance because they are now so common. The result is that a college degree gets you the same real life salary as your HS educated father with more debt. Sure, some majors pay more..but this is the same as some specialized trades. A CS major makes a lot more than a lib arts major the way an electrician makes more than a nurse aide or waiter/waitress.

College is what you can make of it, if you have the capability and will, it will take you to the good job/ grad school you want. If you are only average or below than it will likely not. Even grad degreed people make less than they used to. So then, why go to college if in all likelihood you'd be better off as a plumber or electrician? Hope, everyone believes that their kid will make it.

Evidence? I have friends with college degrees waiting tables, painting houses, temping, doing odd jobs, etc. I eve n have a friend with a JD that is only a part time paralegal and a PhD in english that works as an adjuct and at a bookstore. We are over educated in many fields and not enough is the "tougher" fields such as math, science, engineering,etc. You want a good job...find the demand and follow it...don't just get an education.

For those who look at it as enrichment, thats fine. However, I could have leanred a lot more for a lot less money (about a $1.50 in late charges at the public library)

[redav]

Sanman111, I like your post.

Whether you deem college worthwhile depends on:
1. what you expect of it
2. what you got out of it

First, what to expect. It costs thousands of dollars, so we're justified in expecting to get something of great value, which will vary, but there are two things I think of: return on investment and edification. Return on investment is pretty straight forward--invest capital to develop the necessary knowledge/skills/traits that will repay the investment with dividends.Edification is trickier--you are paying for experiences that will make you a better person. That indeed is noble, and may be worth every penny, but, just because something is 'worth it' doesn't mean that you got a good deal. Much of what is extolled in this aspect, frankly, I got out of high school and my family for far less expense. I have never liked the 'learn how to think' or 'discover who you are' motives for college. Why? Because they're not that hard; you don't need to pay someone for them.

Second, what you get out of it. College is one of those rare times where a few years have the tremendous potential to affect the rest of your life. As for me, the experience I sought after (and believe I acquired) was to successfully transition from an adolescent to a self-supporting adult, especially preparation for a career. The result has been a healthy return on my investment. But I have noticed an interesting side effect--those things I learned & the behaviors I developed have benefited me far beyond my paycheck; the rest of my life is much more sound and solid.

As I compare my experiences to others', I somewhat fear that those whose goals are primarily to pursue self-actualization & self-fulfillment end up missing on both sides. Let's be honest, employers are not going to pay you because have developed these thinking patterns; it isn't profitable to them. They failed to acquire unique, marketable skills; thus the great job they expected when leaving school aren't there. Also, when basic needs are not being met, of what benefit is the higher-order thinking developed in school? You can go ask those PhDs working at bookstores or busing tables--my guess is not much.

[fuzmiq]

Depending on what he or she wanted to do in life...i would tell my child not to go to college. I don't think it is necessary for every career. For many of the lib arts careers, I would just say go get a job. super not-necessary.
You get to meet people, but hey I ain't going in debt $35k to meet people. I can do that for free. Unless you are becoming a doc, lawyer, engineer, teacher whatever, it is super not-necessary.

[WorkInProgress]

It wasn't a waste for me, and I still don't know exactly what I do want to do, professionally. I use skills I either learned or honed while in school quite often at my job.

And yeah, I could have done my job without a degree (heck, I was working here before I attained it anyway), but I am a different person for having gone, and I bring that to all aspects of my life. Maybe that's too weird or not a good enough reason for some, and that's fine. It's a good enough reason for me.

Having said all of that, would I consider grad school for myself at this point in my life a big waste of time, effort and money: yes. Since I don't know what I want to do, and since I don't believe I can afford the financial or opportunity cost of going right now, I am not comfortable doing it. I'd love to go, but can't justify doing it just for fun (just like I couldn't justify going to certain schools, or certain programs for undergrad).

[winneythepooh7]

For me, college, and then graduate school was completely worth it. Of course, there were some courses and experiences that were a complete waste of time, but there is a lot that I do now related to my job that's a complete waste as well. That is life.

My fiance only went to college for a couple of years and then dropped out. Yes, he is pretty successful with his own construction business, but I do know that dropping out of school is his absolute biggest regret because he has nothing else to fall back on. He can't afford health insurance right now, and there is a high probability that he will get injured at his job (he has before) and the type of back-breaking labor he does do, is not going to be something he can do forever. Maybe his company will continue to be hugely successful and he can just "give orders" eventually, but at the same time, that's just not really his style either.

I guess my point is, if you have the opportunity to go to college, go. You don't have to like everything about it, but there probably is a good chance just having that degree will open some kind of doors. If you don't want to go, well, that's fine too. It's still a personal choice.

[mishl982]

Definitely not a waste. I changed so much for the better in college, learned a lot of valuable things, and was exposed to so many experiences that I wouldn't have gotten had I not gone to college.

[sparky88]

college.

I am glad that I went, overall. I know that I would not have my current job without a degree. On the one hand it is true that the things I gained in college made me who I am and perhaps I may not have had the same experiences in the 'real world'. However, that can't ever be proven because I don't know what route I would have taken had I not gone straight to school. It may have been equally beneficial- I will never know.

I think that all but possibly 3-4 classes at my college were challenging. And the professors treated us like we were in middle school. On the one hand it was pathetic, on the other the professors were able to go beyond the material when you challenged them. So you get out of it what you put in, really.

If I were to do it over I would have joined the workforce with 2-3 jobs for my first 1-3 years out of high school, lived at home, saved money, put money in a ROTH IRA, and figured out what degree I'd like to pursue- then take that leap.

My education was not worth the amount I am paying back in loans. Not even close. But I did not have the foresight to understand the impact it would have on my future (eating, buying a house, starting a family, achieving financial freedom).

What's done is done. I would not recommend the average high schooler go straight to college now-a-days, IMO. Unless they ARE brilliant, and know what they want to do with their life.

[cache]

The difference between you and your electrician friend:

Your electrician friend will get his ~3% per year raise for the next 30 years. And that's it, unless he starts his own business.
Your electrician friend has a ceiling to positions he can get to without a degree.
Your electrician friend will do a job that is far more dangerous than a food services salesperson, and will probably be injured sometime during his career.


There is nothing wrong with trades, but they are limited in potential. Just ask an American auto worker who was just laid off how much a college degree would be worth to him/her.

College degrees are not the terminal solution to success in life. They do, however, provide more options. Over time, these options become more important.

[Skyblade]

It seems like the person in the original post thinks that just because he/she went to college she should get a well-paying job. Didn't this person realize that you have to have SOME experience coming in to most jobs? Didn't he/she do internships?

[and1grad]

I also counted the research and some of the labs I did in college as experience. Some of the equipment you have access to in a college lab is more advanced than some of the things people in "the real world" get to use.

[Winter Storm]

I definitely do not feel that my college education was a waste of time. Everything I learned in college, I directly apply to my current position.

I know of a few people who skipped college and the obstacles they've faced having to compete for jobs with college grads; some much younger.

My sister worked her way up from office manager to the director of HR, all on a high school diploma, but still feels tht not having a college degree has held her back and still keeps her from getting the salary she feels she would deserve. And so she is working on her bachelor's at 43 years old.

I have another co-worker who just graduated at 40 years old and though she's had some great positions at some great companies, she also felt being degree-less held her back.

[winneythepooh7]

I definitely do not feel that my college education was a waste of time. Everything I learned in college, I directly apply to my current position.

I know of a few people who skipped college and the obstacles they've faced having to compete for jobs with college grads; some much younger.

My sister worked her way up from office manager to the director of HR, all on a high school diploma, but still feels tht not having a college degree has held her back and still keeps her from getting the salary she feels she would deserve. And so she is working on her bachelor's at 43 years old.

I have another co-worker who just graduated at 40 years old and though she's had some great positions at some great companies, she also felt being degree-less held her back.


Winter brings up some really great points. I have met some much older people in my field who were in "higher positions" but because now the field of human services has totally started to be revamped, many if not all administrative/director positions now call for at least a Master's degree. (So if say, they decide to leave their current agency they won't be able to find anything).

For many, if not all entry-level "direct care or counselor" positions also call for a Bachelor's degree.

I would have topped out at a certain level if I did not go on and pursue my professional degree, and I would have never topped out at a certain level if I never obtained my Bachelor's--I would have probably been lucky finding $7.00 an hour jobs in human services if I was lucky.

[Winter Storm]

I would have topped out at a certain level if I did not go on and pursue my professional degree.

Exactly. My father never finished college but ended having the good fortune to secure a decent job. However, he grew to absolutely hate it but knew that with his experience and lack of education, he wouldn't be able to find another job that paid him the same as he also topped out in his position. He stayed there til he retired.

You never know what will happen down the line but no one can take that degree away from you.

[winneythepooh7]

I also think being an educated woman is priceless in this day and age. Especially for those who may become the sole-breadwinner, or those of us planning to have children. Having that education is something that no one can take away from us.

[mishl982]

Yep, I know people without degrees who have gotten to be pretty successful, but have been held back from going even further or not get paid as well because they didn't have one.

[sparky88]

I also think being an educated woman is priceless in this day and age. Especially for those who may become the sole-breadwinner, or those of us planning to have children. Having that education is something that no one can take away from us.


This is the reason why my parents wanted me to complete a college degree.

[wordsmith]

As a proud liberal arts alum, I obviously have pretty solid ideas of the benefits of that type of education that can't be correlated directly to earning power (although, actually, they can be depending on your choices and how you opt to play your cards...there are high-earning fields that are open to those who have pursued the humanities in academia).

This is always a tricky subject on the boards, because people tend to have very extreme feelings based on their particular experience/any fallout they might have experienced, and go overboard justifying their choices accordingly.

I will say that my degree is hands down the best money I've ever spent, personally. Easily my best, most important, most beneficial investment of both time and money.

I also agree with the posters who've written that the worth is very tied up in both what you put into it, and what you expected to get out of it, personally, and those are going to be very different, person to person.

I'm not sure it's worthwhile to start singling out, "I know so and so without a degree, and they make a ton more than me with my degree," because we can all cherry pick as many examples as we want to support arguments for or against the worthiness of schooling, and in the end, there's no way to definitively assign worth of schooling across the board. What any experience is worth, and the reasons it is or isn't worth something, well, there are as many valid opinions on that as there are people. It's purely subjective and individual.

[Skyblade]

My mom never got a college degree (well, she has an associate's). She constantly tells me how it holds her back. She's been an administrative assistant for her whole career and has never really gotten a "promotion." Maybe a title change from admin assistant to project coordinator, but its really the SAME exact job. Meanwhile, she sees young people come in and rise up the ranks as she just stays put. I think its a big reason why she has such low self esteem and seeing these young people that SHE helped train move up past her is disheartening.

[Mark A.]

It seems like the person in the original post thinks that just because he/she went to college she should get a well-paying job. Didn't this person realize that you have to have SOME experience coming in to most jobs? Didn't he/she do internships?
Some of us worked full time in college and couldn't afford to do internships.

[Skyblade]

Some of us worked full time in college and couldn't afford to do internships.

Wouldn't that full-time job count as experience? I never did internships (technically) either. BUT I did have a part-time job at a PR firm which was extremely helpful in launching my career.

[AshleyJordan]

Some of us worked in college and couldn't afford to do internships.
I had to work full-time for all 6 years of my education, too (first cobbling together p/t jobs and paid internships, and then working one f/t gig after i got promoted my jr year, all through my master's degree.) In a way, it sucked, and I would've preferred to have more free time and leisure like my peers did, I can't pretend otherwise. It also made me a very seasoned professional at my young age (24) and gave me a lot of strength and I'm pretty proud of myself for what I've done.
I guess what I'm saying is even though things like that can be burdens (and in my case, it was quite a cross to bear, my family actually has the $ but is simply very tight-fisted with us,) be proud of what you accomplished!

[Winter Storm]

I worked full-time in college and did two internships.

One was with FOX45, a TV station here in Baltimore where I not only got to star in, write and produce my own promos but I walked away with a demo tape of 5 productions I did myself. People always asked about my experience there when they saw it on my resume and it was 15 weeks of my summer well spent.

[wordsmith]

My mom never got a college degree (well, she has an associate's). She constantly tells me how it holds her back.

My mom has a high school diploma, and it's definitely held her back professionally to not have any continued schooling. On the other hand, my dad has a bachelor's degree, and work toward both a masters and a JD, and he's a tradesman, something many people do without a degree. It can go either way.

[WorkInProgress]

This is the reason why my parents wanted me to complete a college degree.

My parents have never said, but I am convinced that this is a major reason why my parents wanted me to complete my undergrad (and would prefer it if I pursued a graduate degree).

[cheshrcarol]

There's no way I would ever trade in my college experience and say it wasn't worth it. I get really tired of people who did no research before they went into college complaining about the situation they're in when they leave it. The person in the article agreed to $15k in student loans - did it ever occur to him to wonder how he was going to pay those back, what kind of job he could get, what skills he would need, what the job would pay?

College was invaluable to me for the life skills I learned - I don't think an 18 year old kid should be on their own, college is a great buffer between life w/parents and life on your own. It also taught me important general academic information, as well as job-specific skills. The reason why I ultimately chose the school I did was because the program taught specific skills, as opposed to another school I came really close to going to that only taught theory courses.

[sparky88]

I get really tired of people who did no research before they went into college complaining about the situation they're in when they leave it. The person in the article agreed to $15k in student loans - did it ever occur to him to wonder how he was going to pay those back, what kind of job he could get, what skills he would need, what the job would pay?


I think that this is one of the big problems. Many soon-to-be high school grads are advised, "JUST GET A DEGREE. ANY DEGREE. It's okay if you don't know what you want to be when you grow up. Just get the piece of paper and then figure it out!". I know I was told this probably 20-30 times in my senior year of high school by counselors, teachers, family, and peers. These young adults are in a frenzy trying to figure everything out. Many do not have the realistic experience of paying a complete set of bills (rent, phone, utilities, food, clothes, car, everything) to REALLY know what kind of salary they realistically may need upon graduation.

[winneythepooh7]

I think that this is one of the big problems. Many soon-to-be high school grads are advised, "JUST GET A DEGREE. ANY DEGREE. It's okay if you don't know what you want to be when you grow up. Just get the piece of paper and then figure it out!". I know I was told this probably 20-30 times in my senior year of high school by counselors, teachers, family, and peers. These young adults are in a frenzy trying to figure everything out. Many do not have the realistic experience of paying a complete set of bills (rent, phone, utilities, food, clothes, car, everything) to REALLY know what kind of salary they realistically may need upon graduation.


I totally agree. I also think that a lot of colleges, since they are money-making institutions, don't often prepare their students for the harsh realities of the working world. Even on the graduate level. I remember being told by numerous professors, that I would get any type of job I wanted when I got my degree. This is very dangerous, especially to tell someone who may have gone straight through undergrad and then to grad and never really worked. Then they start thinking there's something wrong with them when they can't get a job as an agency director. I think it's very important to talk to people who are out there working in the field you may be considering as an undergrad.

[WorkInProgress]

I totally agree. I also think that a lot of colleges, since they are money-making institutions, don't often prepare their students for the harsh realities of the working world.

I think you're on to something. However, my public high school didn't do this either, and most former students probably went directly to work.

[wordsmith]

Nothing prepares you for the working world but trial and error, anyway.

[redsail]

I also think that a lot of colleges, since they are money-making institutions, don't often prepare their students for the harsh realities of the working world.

I don't necessarily think colleges are the place to prepare you for the harsh realities of the working world. They shouldn't sugar coat things like "you will get any job you want", but most people in academia have no idea what the real world is like in the area they teach. I've had numerous profs say they are in academia for because they can't deal with the real world practice of their subjects.

I do believe all students in college (and high school) should go through a personal finance class.

To the OP, College is what you make of it. I treated it vocationally. The degree will get me a job, and it did. I didn't learn near as much as I could or should have because I was too busy being lazy and having fun. I have regrets about it, but thats cause I'm older now and don't have the same outlook as when I was 18-22. I also met my wife in college so it was definately worth it for me.

[wordsmith]

To the OP, College is what you make of it. I treated it vocationally. The degree will get me a job, and it did. I didn't learn near as much as I could or should have because I was too busy being lazy and having fun. I have regrets about it, but thats cause I'm older now and don't have the same outlook as when I was 18-22. I also met my wife in college so it was definately worth it for me.

My experience is the reverse...I definitely treated it as a venue for educational opportunity, and not remotely vocationally. No regrets here. Got a ton out of it.

[and1grad]

I thought treating it vocationally was where a lot of people wound up having problems (getting jobs they have almost no interest in b/c they paid well).

[wordsmith]

I thought treating it vocationally was where a lot of people wound up having problems (getting jobs they have almost no interest in b/c they paid well).

Agreed.

[WorkInProgress]

Two different sets of problems:

-focusing too much on the vocation aspect and doing something one doesn't like just for the job

-focusing on the personal enrichment and not figuring out how to manage in real life

Both happen, but I think it's possible to focus more moderately/realistically on one or the other without overfocusing (or just do some of both), if that makes sense.

EDIT: and both of those could lead one to determine that college is a big waste of time.

[wordsmith]

Totally, both are extreme ends, and I'd imagine most people fall in the grey void in between the two.

As much as I focused on learning/experiential ed for its own sake (as is a big hallmark of liberal arts philosophy, learning for the sake of learning), that primary objective DID dovetail with the reality that I was also learning marketable skills by doing so. I was picking them as I went, but wasn't focusing on them, that was all happening in tandem.

But simply because I didn't spend my college time trying to apply everything to a future career, doesn't mean that I didn't pick out things where that was an added bonus in addition to just being interesting to me. I didn't choose to be an English major TO get a job, I chose it because it interested me. But it's true that the things I learned absolutely have applied to every job I've had since.

[winneythepooh7]

Remember gang, I am a social worker. Many if not all of my professors, also worked in the field at the same exact time in addition to teaching. Many were also agency directors or clinicians. Many also had private practices on the side. It may be different in other fields, I am just talking from my own experience.

[redsail]

I thought treating it vocationally was where a lot of people wound up having problems (getting jobs they have almost no interest in b/c they paid well).

I agree that it can lead to problems, but getting a job that paid well was pretty much the goal from childhood for me since I knew I would have to take care of my parents when they got older. I did have an interest in my degree and so it was not doing something I knew I would hate. I learned alot in college, just not as much as I would with my now less practical outlook on life.

[Skyblade]

I chose to double major in college (in Communication and Sociology). Communication was what I started with and what interested me as I was always interested in mass media, marketing, public relations, etc. I took a beginning Sociology class my freshman year and enjoyed it so much that I added it as a major. I always thought of Sociology as more of my fun major, while Communication was more directed towards my career goals. Neither really offered concrete skills that DIRECTLY applied to my career as I went to UC Santa Barbara. The UC system is notoriously academic/research/theory based. I even took a class called Sociology of the University which explained the difference between a UC education and a state education. Very interesting stuff.

Even though I didn't learn skills that would directly apply to the job I have now, I believe my experience in college has greatly affected the way I do my job. I think the biggest thing I learned in college is writing skills. I had to write SO many papers that I became a much better writer, something I use DAILY in my job. Also, while I've always been good with getting stuff done, I did learn more about making your own deadlines, especially my senior year in college when I had to write a thesis and was pretty much on my own without a lot of direction.

[wordsmith]

Even though I didn't learn skills that would directly apply to the job I have now, I believe my experience in college has greatly affected the way I do my job. I think the biggest thing I learned in college is writing skills. I had to write SO many papers that I became a much better writer, something I use DAILY in my job. Also, while I've always been good with getting stuff done, I did learn more about making your own deadlines, especially my senior year in college when I had to write a thesis and was pretty much on my own without a lot of direction.

You obviously DID learn/hone skills that DO directly apply to your job.

[wordsmith]

I agree that it can lead to problems, but getting a job that paid well was pretty much the goal from childhood for me since I knew I would have to take care of my parents when they got older. I did have an interest in my degree and so it was not doing something I knew I would hate. I learned alot in college, just not as much as I would with my now less practical outlook on life.

But doesn't that support the theory that you get out of college whatever you put into it?

[redsail]

But doesn't that support the theory that you get out of college whatever you put into it?

Yes, I agree with that point whole-heartedly now. I didn't think that when I was in college though. It was a means to an end. MIS degree = good paying job. I think this may be a similar way of looking at college for a lot of children of immigrants who came to America looking for a better life.

[wordsmith]

I think this may be a similar way of looking at college for a lot of children of immigrants who came to America looking for a better life.

And very definitely the way many of those parents view it, whether or not the student him or herself does.

There are plenty of parents, too, though, who don't fit in that category who are also very big proponents of a degree as a means to an end.

[Skyblade]

You obviously DID learn/hone skills that DO directly apply to your job.

True, I guess I just meant that I didn't learn specific skills like how to pitch to the media, write ad copy, or create a website (all things which I've had to do at previous jobs or my current job).