50 Things She Wishes You Knew

[CTGirl]

I'm not much of "girly" girl, so I generally despise the nonsense that's on lists like these, but when my friend sent me this one this morning, I was just amazed at how totally accurate it is, so I felt the need to share:

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=sex&category=better.sex&conitem=65d999edbbbd201099edbbbd2010cfe793cd____&page=0&pageLocation=true&print=true&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.menshealth.com%2Fcda%2Farticl e.d

[Millenial]

i liked the one where's it's like i remember everything...so true.
some of the stuff i was like whatever, usually the stuff where's it's like buy me X, or give me Y. LOL

[and1grad]

Thats a long ass list. I'd like to see a guy version.

1. Please learn how to cook SOMETHING.
2. Try not to talk SO much, especially during the game.
3. When I fantasize...well, lets not talk about that.

[ScottyTheBody]

Yeah...I gotta be honest, I find these lists to be kind of lame. Following a list like a servant or not following a list at all will not ensure anything about any relationship/date.

This one isn't as bad as the ones I have seen though. I saw one that was called "1000 things Men should do for Women always. PERIOD.". A lot of the stuff on that list I found to be really stupid.

[dacrunkest]

Thats a long ass list. I'd like to see a guy version.

1. Please learn how to cook SOMETHING.
2. Try not to talk SO much, especially during the game.
3. When I fantasize...well, lets not talk about that.


I like it when they talk. I consider myself a good listener. And I like to listen.

[arrow]

Eh, it was okay. As with anything, it doesn't completely apply to all of us. I'd say it was about 50% true for me. But that's me; I didn't write the article.

I do get annoyed when one person tries to speak for his or her entire gender.

[Chameleon]

I think the list is cute, entertaining and surprisingly accurate :)

[Winter Storm]

Eh, it was okay. As with anything, it doesn't completely apply to all of us. I'd say it was about 50% true for me. But that's me; I didn't write the article.

I do get annoyed when one person tries to speak for his or her entire gender.

Yeah, same here. Unimpressed. I'd only agree with about half those things.

[dengeist]

*kicks the leather pants under the bed*

Uh....good list?

[Winter Storm]

*kicks the leather pants under the bed*?

Wait! Are they breakway?

[dengeist]

Wait! Are they breakway?

From my exotic dancer days.....I guess the thong with the tassel on the front is a bad thing too, huh?

[grneyedmustang]

I thought the list was kinda cute! In my case, a good bit of it was accurate.

[Krishna]

36. I want to be the best thing that ever happened to you--and for you to recognize this.

37. If I'm not feeling loved, I will start looking....

47. It's cheating as soon as you're doing something with her that you wouldn't want me to see, hear, read...

48. For the record: I'd rather you break up with me than cheat.

I like all the ones listed above....but my absolute most-true one is this one down here:

33. You're sexy when you're shaving, fixing things, wearing a white T-shirt and jeans, driving, eating a peach, holding a baby.


God, men holding babies or small kids (and liking it) is a turn on for me. :)

[CTGirl]

Yeah...I gotta be honest, I find these lists to be kind of lame. Following a list like a servant or not following a list at all will not ensure anything about any relationship/date.


It's not about "following the list"

Its about getting insight into how the other half feels--use what's useful, dont use what's not. Everyone is obviously different, so for the most part, these things are just for fun.

[inmediasres]

There actually is a similar list for guys, with 60 items. I'll paste it below. I think most of these, with the exception of perhaps a couple, are true.

----
1. Guys hate sluts even though they have sex with them!
(oh yeah..you're not "popular" if you've slept with more than ALOT OF GUYS..you're a HOE) (Also this one, i'll change if people want me to, people have different life styles)

2. "Hey, are you busy?" or "Are you doing something?" ~ two phrases guys open with to stop from stammering on the phone.

3. Guys may be flirting around all day but before they go to sleep, they always think about the girl they truly care about.

4. Before they call, guys try to plan out a little about what they're gonna say so there aren't awkward pauses, but once he's on the phone he forgets it all and makes it up as he goes.

5. Guys go crazy over a girl's smile when there attracted to them

6. Guys will do anything just to get you to notice him.

7. Guys hate it when you talk about your ex-boyfriend or ex love-interest. Unless they're goin for the let-her-complain-to-you-and-then-have-her-realize-how-wonderful-and-nice-you-are method.

8. A guy who likes you wants to be the only guy you talk to.

9. Boyfriends need to be reassured often that they're still loved.

10. Don't talk about your guy friends to your boyfriend.

11. Guys get jealous easily.

12. Guys are more emotional than they'd like people to think.

13. Giving a guy a hanging message like "You know what?!..uh...nevermind.." would make him jump to a conclusion that is far from what you are thinking. And he'll assume he did something wrong and he'll obsess about it trying to figure it out.

14. Guys are good flatterers when courting but they usually stammer when they talk to a girl they really like.

15. Guys hate asking parents for money to buy girls presents. So they come up with ideas like saving their lunch money for a week. But it never works because guys are always hungry so they end up asking the parents for money anyway.

16. Girls are guys' weaknesses.

17. Guys are very open about themselves.

18. It's good to test a guy first before you trust him. But don't let him wait too long.

19. Your best friend, whom your boyfriend seeks help from about his problems with you may end up being admired by your boyfriend.

20. If a guy tells you about his problems, he just needs someone to listen to him. You don't need to give advice.

21. A usual act that proves that the guy likes you is when he teases you.

22. Guys love you more than you love them if they are serious in your relationships.

23. Guys will brag about anything.

24. Guys use words like hot or cute to describe girls. We rarely use beautiful. If a guy uses that, he likes you a whole hell of a lot.

25. Guys think WAY too much. One small thing a girl does, even if she doesn't notice it can make the guy think about it for hours, trying to figure out what it meant.

26. Guys seek for advice from girls not other guys. Because most guys think alike, so if one guy's confused, then we're all confused.

27. Any guy could write out a rulebook or advice book for flirting, but no guy can write out a book about relationships.

28. Try to be as straightforward as possible.

29. A guy has to experience rejection, because if he's
too-good-never-been-busted, never been in love and hurt, he won't be mature and grown up.

30. If the guy does something stupid in front of the girl, he will think about it for the next couple days or until the next time he spends time with the girl.

31. No matter how much guys talk about asses and boobs, personality is key.

32. Guys learn from experience not from the romance books that girls read and take as their basis of experience.

33. Guys worry about the thin line between being compassionate and being whipped.

34. If a guy looks unusually calm and laid back, he's probably faking it and is spazzing inside.

35. When a guy says he is going crazy about the girl, he really is. Guys rarely say that.

36. When a guy asks you to leave him alone, he's just actually saying, "Please come and listen to me."

37. Guys don't really have final decisions.

38. If a guy starts to talk seriously, listen to him. It doesn't happen that often, so when it does, you know something's up.

39. If your best guy friend seems to avoid you or is never around when you're with your boyfriend, he's probably jealous and likes you.

40. When a guy looks at you for longer than a second, he's definitely thinking something.

41. Guys like femininity not feebleness.

42. Guys don't like girls who punch harder than they do.

43. A guy has more problems than you can see with your naked eyes.

44. Don't be a snob. Guys can be intimidated and give up easily.

45. Everything in moderation. Put on makeup, wear perfume. Just not too much.

46. Guys talk about girls more than girls talk about guys.

47. Guys hate rejection, but they hate being led on even more.

48. Guys really think that girls are strange and have unpredictable decisions and are MAD confusing but somehow are drawn even more to them.

49. A guy would give his left nut to be able to read a girl's mind for a day.

50. No guy can handle all his problems on his own. He's just too stubborn to admit it.

51. Not all guys are assholes. Just because ONE is a jackass doesnt mean he represents ALL of us.

52. We don't like girls who are too skinny.

53. We love it when girls talk about there ass.

54. Always make sure you know what kind of stuff your getting into before making out with a guy ...like wheather it's a one time deal or not ....

55. Believe it or not shy guys are the most easiest to talk to..it may not seem right but trust me they will start opening up like books after you just ask them questions about their lives and unoticable tell them about yours...

56. When a guy hits your butt it means that he wants you sexually.

57. Even if they refuse it all guys are ticklish on the ribs..

58. Guys love neck rubs and if he lets you keep doing it ..it means that he really likes you or his neck really hurts...

59. Guys will test the waters to see how far they can get with you. Even if he doesn't intend to it will happen. Know how far it is you want to let him go and he will respect that...after you let him know a couple times.

60. When a guy sacerfices his sleep and health just to be with you, he really likes you and wants to be with you as much as possible.
----

[wordsmith]

Those that particularly ring true for me:

4. You are cute in raglan-sleeved T-shirts (two-toned baseball undershirts).

6. I love it when you hug me from behind and whisper in my ear.

21. A man I love plans the occasional fancy-schmancy dress-up date and impromptu weekend getaways, and he buys my favorite candy in advance when we're just going to the movies.

23. You should never tell me what to do.

26. If you ask me out directly, I will say yes.

32. I'm in heaven when you hold my hand.

34. I need to hear how you feel about me. Often. Tell me now.

35. Surprises, especially gifts for moi = more loving.

*********39. I like it when you tell me what you're thinking, even if you don't know yourself.*********

48. For the record: I'd rather you break up with me than cheat.

49. I remember everything about our relationship.

And a few others, which shall remain unlisted. :)

[Hockey Dork]

44. I like porn.

You sure they didn't take this from the guys list? Not all girls can "appreciate" porn. They get too hung up in comparing themselves to the girls on screen.

[Krishna]

44. I like porn.

You sure they didn't take this from the guys list? Not all girls can "appreciate" porn. They get too hung up in comparing themselves to the girls on screen.

Yep. I understand that guys are visually stimulated, but I can't stand porn of any sort. I even hate Playboys and Maxims. Part of me always says "hellooooo, photoshopped fakey" but the other part of me feels like shit when my boyfriend looks at/collects porn because I can't measure up to what he's seeing in the magazines or whatever. #44 is NOT true for me.

[Winter Storm]

44. I like porn.

You sure they didn't take this from the guys list? Not all girls can "appreciate" porn. They get too hung up in comparing themselves to the girls on screen.

#44 is definitely true for me but I find most other girls don't appreciate porn at all, though I don't understand it. I personally don't feel the least bit threatened by porno stars. I feel more attractive than them. Hell, most of them are 100% plastic hags. I'm 100% real woman.

[Krishna]

#44 is definitely true for me but I find most other girls don't appreciate porn at all, though I don't understand it. I personally don't feel the least bit threatened by porno stars. I feel more attractive than them. Hell, most of them are 100% plastic hags. I'm 100% real woman.

Ironically actual porn doesnt bother me as much as Playboy and Maxim and wallpapers found in places like www.skins.be. Those actually do make me feel like shit about myself because my boyfriend apparently idolizes them so much.

[Winter Storm]

Ironically actual porn doesnt bother me as much as Playboy and Maxim and wallpapers found in places like www.skins.be. Those actually do make me feel like shit about myself because my boyfriend apparently idolizes them so much.
Is there any way you can kinda recreate that kind of thing at home? For your boyfriend? I dunno, I really feel like with the right makeup, hair, sexy lingerie and attitude, nearly any woman can become a sex goddess just like those women. And I don't believe you have to have gigantic tits or be a size zero to do it either.

[Hockey Dork]

Is there any way you can kinda recreate that kind of thing at home? For your boyfriend? I dunno, I really feel like with the right makeup, hair, sexy lingerie and attitude, nearly any woman can become a sex goddess just like those women. And I don't believe you have to have gigantic tits or be a size zero to do it either.

That does SO much more for me than watching porn or looking at some of the aforementioned "photoshopped" girls. At least having it live in front of you you can truly appreciate it and enjoy it. Not just oggle it endlessly.

[ScottyTheBody]

I'm not a fan of the guy's list either. In fact I have more beefs with the guy's list posted (well not and1grad's, the other one) than the other list.

[redav]

I wasn't too impressed with the guy's list, either. However, some were pretty good.


5. Guys go crazy over a girl's smile when he's attracted to her.

8. A guy who likes you wants to be the only guy you talk to.
(We're territorial and possessive, just like lions. We're carnivores, too.)

21. A USUAL ACT THAT PROVES THAT THE GUY LIKES YOU IS WHEN HE TEASES YOU.

23. Guys will brag about anything.
(I used to work with a guy who bragged about his humility)

28. Try to be as straightforward as possible.
(We're not into layers of subtle shades of meaning. In fact, most things don't mean anything. Just put the cards on the table, and we'll go from there. That helps prevent #48.)

37. Guys don't really have final decisions.
(see #48)

41. Guys like femininity not feebleness.

47. Guys hate rejection, but they hate being led on even more.
(see #28)

48. Guys really think that girls are strange and have unpredictable decisions and are MAD confusing.
(because it's usually true)

51. Not all guys are assholes. Just because ONE is a jackass doesn't mean he represents ALL of us.

[ScottyTheBody]

Some of the things on both lists, I completely agree with. However, the things that I do agree with are often very self explanatory, synonymous to the "golden rule" and apply to both genders ("don't lie", "don't lead on", "don't cheat", "don't be an ass", etc).

[ScottyTheBody]

I found a response to one of those "lists that guys should do" and I found it to be quite humourous.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=26_things

[wordsmith]

Oh, I think there's enough on both lists that aren't all that specific to gender.

[Krishna]

Is there any way you can kinda recreate that kind of thing at home? For your boyfriend? I dunno, I really feel like with the right makeup, hair, sexy lingerie and attitude, nearly any woman can become a sex goddess just like those women. And I don't believe you have to have gigantic tits or be a size zero to do it either.


I'm not sure...I'm not the most secure girl to begin with, so I struggle with that. I'm not 5'10 and 120 pounds, etc. I also don't have the dollars right now to devote to fancy lingerie and makeup.

I have just started playing around with digital photography though, because it allows me to refine what I see. Once I have a few pictures that I like of me, I'm going to upload them to his computer just for kicks and giggles.

[dave134]

If you ask me out directly, I will say yes.

Um, so ask out a girl and she will say yes. You girls really go for that?

[wordsmith]

The only time I've ever said no is when I was already seeing somebody. I will generally always agree to at least a first date, if you're not a terrifying stalker person.

[dave134]

The only time I've ever said no is when I was already seeing somebody. I will generally always agree to at least a first date, if you're not a terrifying stalker person.

I am thinking along the lines of approaching someone out of the blue. Or would this work only for someone you knew?

[ScottyTheBody]

If you ask me out directly, I will say yes.

Um, so ask out a girl and she will say yes. You girls really go for that?

Not all. Speaking from personal experience.

They will go out with you IF they find something particularly attractive/interesting about you (to be honest, I'd prefer it that way too).

[CTGirl]

44. I like porn.

You sure they didn't take this from the guys list? Not all girls can "appreciate" porn. They get too hung up in comparing themselves to the girls on screen.

Many of us DO enjoy porn, and Playboy (I'm addicted to Girls Next Door) and Maxim. Its all about whether women choose to appreciate their fellow woman or compete with them.


They will go out with you IF they find something particularly attractive/interesting about you (to be honest, I'd prefer it that way too).

True, no girl is gonna say yes to any guy who asks her out, and any girl who would do that is prolly not the type you'd wanna date anyhow. However, if we find him interesting, most girls will give a random dude a chance-we're not as scary as we appear to be.

[The Happy Hodag]

5. Guys go crazy over a girl's smile when there attracted to them.

6. Guys will do anything just to get you to notice him.

60. When a guy sacerfices his sleep and health just to be with you, he really likes you and wants to be with you as much as possible.

56. When a guy hits your butt it means that he wants you sexually.

This is the kind of shit that gets me called a stalker for some reason.

36. When a guy asks you to leave him alone, he's just actually saying, "Please come and listen to me."

When I ask a girl to leave me alone, girls actually do it.

11. Guys get jealous easily.

12. Guys are more emotional than they'd like people to think.

16. Girls are guys' weaknesses.

29. A guy has to experience rejection, because if he's
too-good-never-been-busted, never been in love and hurt, he won't be mature and grown up.

33. Guys worry about the thin line between being compassionate and being whipped.

39. If your best guy friend seems to avoid you or is never around when you're with your boyfriend, he's probably jealous and likes you.

44. Don't be a snob. Guys can be intimidated and give up easily.

47. Guys hate rejection, but they hate being led on even more.

All this is why I don't have a girlfriend, and why I never will have one. Jealousy is the main reason I've actually been avoiding the dating scene recently. If I see a girl with any sort of ring on and/or talking to another guy, I'll avoid her like the plague, thinking all along that she's taken and not worth the air that I breathe.

-The Happy Hodag!

[CTGirl]

All this is why I don't have a girlfriend, and why I never will have one. Jealousy is the main reason I've actually been avoiding the dating scene recently. If I see a girl with any sort of ring on and/or talking to another guy, I'll avoid her like the plague, thinking all along that she's taken and not worth the air that I breathe.


Sorry to be so blunt, but you may wanna look into upping that self-esteem of yours.

[arrow]

1. Guys hate sluts even though they have sex with them!
(oh yeah..you're not "popular" if you've slept with more than ALOT OF GUYS..you're a HOE)


Please. Anyone who believes this is NOT the man for me because:

a. I do not tolerate double standards.

b. No one is going to know my # of partners, nor will I know his, because I don't tell nor do I ask. He'll know how many boyfriends I've had and the fact that I've dated in between. He's free to assume whatever. If he doesn't like it, see point a.


59. Guys will test the waters to see how far they can get with you. Even if he doesn't intend to it will happen. Know how far it is you want to let him go and he will respect that...after you let him know a couple times.


First of all, I like a man who knows his OWN boundries.

Secondly, DUH! They have a name for guys who don't "respect your boundries" and who try and try to talk you into going farther than you'd like after you've "let them know a couple of times." They are called assholes. Anything beyond that and they are rapists. Is this guy personally out to lower the standards for his gender?

He's right though, that not all guys are jerks just because some are. But he's not making a good case for himself with comments like these.

[Krishna]

Many of us DO enjoy porn, and Playboy (I'm addicted to Girls Next Door) and Maxim. Its all about whether women choose to appreciate their fellow woman or compete with them.

I don't feel like I'm competing with those girls. I just feel uneasy that my guy puts them on a pedestal because it is something I can't (and don't want to) live up to. To each their own though.

[wordsmith]

I don't have a problem with porn, and I appreciate erotica, which is basically just literary porn. I have a problem with obsessing on porn to the exclusion of real life sexuality. Porn is fantasy. It's only problematic if the fantasy replaces reality.

[The Happy Hodag]

Sorry to be so blunt, but you may wanna look into upping that self-esteem of yours.

You don't need to apologize for at least being honest with me here - I agree with you 100%. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but after 27 years of never even going out on anything that even resembles a date in the slightest, I think my chances are pretty slim. At this point, I figure all the women out there are already spoken for.

-The Happy Hodag!

P.S. Just tonight, my step-sister made the bold prediction that I would actually be married within six years. I've decided to take the pressure off myself and make sure that this doesn't happen.

[TinyDancer]

You don't need to apologize for at least being honest with me here - I agree with you 100%. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but after 27 years of never even going out on anything that even resembles a date in the slightest, I think my chances are pretty slim. At this point, I figure all the women out there are already spoken for.

Incorrect. Although if you have a negative attitude about it, I'm sure your chances are very slim! Also, not everyone is spoken for. Yeah, sometimes it's obvious that people are with someone. . . but having any sort of a ring or talking to a guy is not a dead giveaway. I wear rings and go out with the guys from work a lot. Me = not attached.

Also, I'm a firm believer in not paying attention to people's predictions and setting timelines. Things will happen when they happen.

Keep your chin up!

[CTGirl]

I don't feel like I'm competing with those girls. I just feel uneasy that my guy puts them on a pedestal because it is something I can't (and don't want to) live up to. To each their own though.

Sounds exactly like you're competing with those girls actually.

And btw Hodag, count me as another girl out there who is not "spoken for"

[wordsmith]

To me, it sounds more like she feels she's being unfairly compared.

i.e. the fantasy infringing upon reality.

[Krishna]

To me, it sounds more like she feels she's being unfairly compared.

i.e. the fantasy infringing upon reality.

Thanks. That's what I was trying to get at. I guess this is why you're a writer and I'm not. I suck at getting things to come out right. :rolleyes:

[CTGirl]

To me, it sounds more like she feels she's being unfairly compared.

i.e. the fantasy infringing upon reality.

Fair enough, so she (and others too) is being unfairly compared to fiction and therefore feels that she has to compete with it. True?

And I dont know what kind of porn you guys are watching, but in the stuff I've seen, the girls are fake-looking and often fugly, and not any hotter than women I know in real life.

[wordsmith]

Fair enough, so she (and others too) is being unfairly compared to fiction and therefore feels that she has to compete with it. True?

I couldn't say for sure, but probably more that you CAN'T really compete with fiction, than the idea that you're somehow expected to. Who can? Fantasy is all the good stuff, airbrushed, without any problems or baggage or background.

[CTGirl]

I couldn't say for sure, but probably more that you CAN'T really compete with fiction, than the idea that you're somehow expected to. Who can? Fantasy is all the good stuff, airbrushed, without any problems or baggage or background.

Agreed, I guess I've just never been in a position where I felt like I should be competing with fiction. The guys I know much prefer the real deal.

[wordsmith]

I think most guys probably would rather have something that actually delivers. There are those who don't, for sure, though. The fantasy with none of the inconveniences of real life is, for them, preferable to to a less ideal real life involvement. Those guys do actually exist, the ones that are more about escapism than relationships.

[redav]

I think most guys probably would rather have something that actually delivers. There are those who don't, for sure, though. The fantasy with none of the inconveniences of real life is, for them, preferable to to a less ideal real life involvement. Those guys do actually exist, the ones that are more about escapism than relationships.
I see one of the bigger problems with porn is that is warps a guy's perceptions/expectations. In his mind, it isn't a matter of competition. Rather, it is about what he considers normal or acceptable. It is unrealistic to think that his views/attitudes of what a woman wants/likes and how he is expected to interact with a partner are not affected by the material he views. The fact that many women don't like porn indicates that those things don't jive and that porn's influence will create friction or harm to a relationship. The same applies to porn (or erotica) directed to a female audience.

[CTGirl]

I see one of the bigger problems with porn is that is warps a guy's perceptions/expectations. In his mind, it isn't a matter of competition. Rather, it is about what he considers normal or acceptable. It is unrealistic to think that his views/attitudes of what a woman wants/likes and how he is expected to interact with a partner are not affected by the material he views. The fact that many women don't like porn indicates that those things don't jive and that porn's influence will create friction or harm to a relationship. The same applies to porn (or erotica) directed to a female audience.

Makes sense, so then you just have to find someone who feels the same way about such things as you do, just like with anything else.

[Winter Storm]

I see one of the bigger problems with porn is that is warps a guy's perceptions/expectations. In his mind, it isn't a matter of competition. Rather, it is about what he considers normal or acceptable. It is unrealistic to think that his views/attitudes of what a woman wants/likes and how he is expected to interact with a partner are not affected by the material he views. The fact that many women don't like porn indicates that those things don't jive and that porn's influence will create friction or harm to a relationship. The same applies to porn (or erotica) directed to a female audience.

I can understand that. But luckily, I've been with guys that could easily decipher the difference between manufactured fantasy and real-life sexual experiences so its never been a problem for me. With a man that knows and appreciates the difference, porn has only enhanced my sexual relationships.

[Millenial]

Makes sense, so then you just have to find someone who feels the same way about such things as you do, just like with anything else.
exactly. i think that is key. i personally enjoy porn and don't substitute it for reality. i think there is nothing wrong with it, i think it's good to share with your SO things (not just sex) that you wouldn't normally expose to the whole world.

[wordsmith]

I can understand that. But luckily, I've been with guys that could easily decipher the difference between manufactured fantasy and real-life sexual experiences so its never been a problem for me. With a man that knows and appreciates the difference, porn has only enhanced my sexual relationships.

I think that fantasy can be healthy, or it can be unhealthy...what you describe is a healthy way to use fantasy to enhance real life experiences. If all people were able to do this, I don't think that there would be half the problems that people tend to have regarding porn and their relationships. And like most things, when porn is a problem, it's not really the porn that's the problem, but underlying things.

I see one of the bigger problems with porn is that is warps a guy's perceptions/expectations.

I'm not totally convinced that this is a universal. I think porn CAN do that, but I don't think that it HAS to. I doubt that every person who looks at something pornograhic suffers from warped perception. As mentioned above, I think that hangups and perceptions and expectations that already exist, well, porn use may fuel the fire, but if that happens, the issue's really probably already there to begin with.

[and1grad]

I dont know any guys that expect their gfs to be able to "compete" with girls in porn or even Maxim really. Not that it doesnt exist, but I dont think its the norm. That said, guys might WISH their girls looked like the stuff of magazines but everybody wishes for something or other so I dont think thats a big deal.

[wordsmith]

I think it's a pretty common female reaction to feel like the line between, "I wish you looked like a girl in a magazine," to "I'm not interested in you because you don't" is uncomfortably thin, though. You might not like it, but it's there, none the less. You (not you specifically, but you as in guys) might not think it's a big deal to wish that your GF looked like a magazine chick, but to us, it does often feel like a bigger deal if we know you feel that way.

[ScottyTheBody]

How many times are there girls obsessing over a male celebrity (or even a few)? How many movies are JUST seen because a very cute guy is in it (even when the story line is utter crap)? Do some women sometimes wish their guy looked like their favourite male celebrity? Do you think it would make a guy uncomfortable to hear his girlfriend swoon over some celebrity (or maybe he could feel threatened)? To be honest, I hear this much more often from women than men (but this could just be my perception).

I really like action flicks. I love the explosions, the tension, the bad guys, the gunshots, etc. However, as much as I love going to see these movies, not for an instant would I enjoy ANY of these "escapes from reality" to happen to me in real life. To some people, movies (be it porn, action, drama, etc) are ways of temporarily escaping from reality. It absolutely doesn't always mean they wish that their life was like the "movies".

Personally, I think most people fantasize about who they know/possible situations in real life much more often then they do celebrities.

Maybe I'm just not seeing this but I just don't understand comparing yourself or feeling threatened by a temporary fantasy of your girlfriend/boyfriend.

[CTGirl]

Maybe I'm just not seeing this but I just don't understand comparing yourself or feeling threatened by a temporary fantasy of your girlfriend/boyfriend.

I agree 100%

My parents share their celebrity crushes with one another, and even encourage them in one another, and they've been happily married for 30 years. They say this is the "secret" to Will Smith and Jada's marriage as well.

[Krishna]

How many times are there girls obsessing over a male celebrity (or even a few)? How many movies are JUST seen because a very cute guy is in it (even when the story line is utter crap)? Do some women sometimes wish their guy looked like their favourite male celebrity? Do you think it would make a guy uncomfortable to hear his girlfriend swoon over some celebrity (or maybe he could feel threatened)? To be honest, I hear this much more often from women than men (but this could just be my perception).

Personally, I don't see movies just because there is a "cute guy" in them. Can't speak for anyone else.



Maybe I'm just not seeing this but I just don't understand comparing yourself or feeling threatened by a temporary fantasy of your girlfriend/boyfriend.

If magazines were mass marketed which promoted men in an airbrushed, six-pack, muscular look only...and a girl constantly kept them around the house and showed them off...I think her boyfriend would feel the way many women do today.

Guys expect women to sit back and not care that they swoon over that hot babe that is willing to expose every inch of her airbrushed self to the world but I think there would be a complete double standard if men were portrayed the same way in the same volume as women are portrayed.

I think it is a slippery slope. Society teaches kids that the image of what people, particularily women, look like is an airbrushed look of perfection.

[and1grad]

How many times are there girls obsessing over a male celebrity (or even a few)? How many movies are JUST seen because a very cute guy is in it (even when the story line is utter crap)? Do some women sometimes wish their guy looked like their favourite male celebrity? Do you think it would make a guy uncomfortable to hear his girlfriend swoon over some celebrity (or maybe he could feel threatened)? To be honest, I hear this much more often from women than men (but this could just be my perception).

I really like action flicks. I love the explosions, the tension, the bad guys, the gunshots, etc. However, as much as I love going to see these movies, not for an instant would I enjoy ANY of these "escapes from reality" to happen to me in real life. To some people, movies (be it porn, action, drama, etc) are ways of temporarily escaping from reality. It absolutely doesn't always mean they wish that their life was like the "movies".

Personally, I think most people fantasize about who they know/possible situations in real life much more often then they do celebrities.

Maybe I'm just not seeing this but I just don't understand comparing yourself or feeling threatened by a temporary fantasy of your girlfriend/boyfriend.
Totally agree.

[Krishna]

I agree 100%

My parents share their celebrity crushes with one another, and even encourage them in one another, and they've been happily married for 30 years. They say this is the "secret" to Will Smith and Jada's marriage as well.

There's a difference between having a celebrity crush and collecting a crap ton of pictures of said celebrity wearing scraps of clothing too small for a gerbil though. I can understand thinking someone is good looking, but I can't handle it being thrown in my face every day.

[Winter Storm]

If magazines were mass marketed which promoted men in an airbrushed, six-pack, muscular look only...and a girl constantly kept them around the house and showed them off...I think her boyfriend would feel the way many women do today.

I think there are 2 things that need to be factored in here:

1) exactly how the boyfriend is flaunting, fawning or showcasing these images. Whether he gives them more attention than the GF or makes direct comparisons to them and her.
2) And just how secure or insecure said girlfriend is with her own body.

Either one of these things could intensify how badly the porn/cover girl mags could offend or bother the girlfriend.

[CTGirl]

There's a difference between having a celebrity crush and collecting a crap ton of pictures of said celebrity wearing scraps of clothing too small for a gerbil though. I can understand thinking someone is good looking, but I can't handle it being thrown in my face every day.

My mother bought my father a calendar of his favorite celebrity crush, with a scantily-clad picture for every month. My father once bought my mother a life-sized carboard statndup of her favorite celebrity crush, which now hangs on the back of their bedroom door.

To me, the key is just checking out the hot chicks WITH your man--if you cant beat em, join em.

[Winter Storm]

There's a difference between having a celebrity crush and collecting a crap ton of pictures of said celebrity wearing scraps of clothing too small for a gerbil though. I can understand thinking someone is good looking, but I can't handle it being thrown in my face every day.

See, I've never dated a guy (to my knowledge) that collected pics of any kind or kept anything out in the open for me to see constantly. What exactly is he doing with them that you have to see them everyday?

[and1grad]

If magazines were mass marketed which promoted men in an airbrushed, six-pack, muscular look only...and a girl constantly kept them around the house and showed them off...I think her boyfriend would feel the way many women do today.

Guys expect women to sit back and not care that they swoon over that hot babe that is willing to expose every inch of her airbrushed self to the world but I think there would be a complete double standard if men were portrayed the same way in the same volume as women are portrayed.

I think it is a slippery slope. Society teaches kids that the image of what people, particularily women, look like is an airbrushed look of perfection.
Not that I disagree completely but to me its similar to the umpteen billion different tv shows that are telling women how a man is supposed to be, supposed to say, supposed to do. Because of that, I think the exposure is pretty similar. I completely agree with you about what society teaches tho.

[Krishna]

I think there are 2 things that need to be factored in here:

1) exactly how the boyfriend is flaunting, fawning or showcasing these images. Whether he gives them more attention than the GF or makes direct comparisons to them and her.
2) And just how secure or insecure said girlfriend is with her own body.

Either one of these things could intensify how badly the porn/cover girl mags could offend or bother the girlfriend.

I guess I'm speaking personally here, but I hate walking into my boyfriend's apartment and seeing the last 12 playboys scattered across the furniture. I hate walking into the kitchen and having the blonde with oversized boobs staring back down at me. I hate walking into his room and seeing the latest girly picture on his computer desktop. I hate knowing that he's collected (on his computer) in excess of 300 pictures of women who are naked or clothed in gerbil sized fabric. I hate knowing that he's got a couple years worth of magazines stashed under his nightstand. I hate that he constantly checks chrudat.com to "rate" the girls he sees on there (with and without me present).

I know what my body is and is not capable of looking like, and I'm OK with that. But it doesn't make the above mentioned items sting any less.

[CTGirl]

I guess I'm speaking personally here, but I hate walking into my boyfriend's apartment and seeing the last 12 playboys scattered across the furniture. I hate walking into the kitchen and having the blonde with oversized boobs staring back down at me. I hate walking into his room and seeing the latest girly picture on his computer desktop. I hate knowing that he's collected (on his computer) in excess of 300 pictures of women who are naked or clothed in gerbil sized fabric. I hate knowing that he's got a couple years worth of magazines stashed under his nightstand.


I agree that that's a bit much. Have you ever said anything to him about this?

[Winter Storm]

I guess I'm speaking personally here, but I hate walking into my boyfriend's apartment and seeing the last 12 playboys scattered across the furniture. I hate walking into the kitchen and having the blonde with oversized boobs staring back down at me. I hate walking into his room and seeing the latest girly picture on his computer desktop. I hate knowing that he's collected (on his computer) in excess of 300 pictures of women who are naked or clothed in gerbil sized fabric. I hate knowing that he's got a couple years worth of magazines stashed under his nightstand. I hate that he constantly checks chrudat.com to "rate" the girls he sees on there (with and without me present).

I know what my body is and is not capable of looking like, and I'm OK with that. But it doesn't make the above mentioned items sting any less.
Geez. Any reason why he has so much porn just laying all over the place.

And what is the blonde with the huge boobs in the kitchen? Please don't tell me a life-sized blow-up doll?

[Krishna]

I agree that that's a bit much. Have you ever said anything to him about this?

I've been telling him that it bothers me for nearly a year now. I finally got him to delete some of his accumulated computer images a week or two ago, but he bitched the whole time about how they shouldnt bother me, how he never looks at them, how he only downloads them because he gets bored, and how "it really isnt a big deal." I estimate that there are 100+ still remaining on his computer.

And let me tell you, having sex with Cameron Diaz, Catherine Zeta-Jones, or Keeley Hazells' airbrushed ass staring out at me from the computer screen does absolutely nothing for my my sexual confidence.

[Krishna]

And what is the blonde with the huge boobs in the kitchen? Please don't tell me a life-sized blow-up doll?

No. It's some surgically enhanced chick on a poster on the wall.


Now do you see why I am not OK with the porn bit? I can't take a step without tripping over some of it. :0

[and1grad]

I guess I'm speaking personally here, but I hate walking into my boyfriend's apartment and seeing the last 12 playboys scattered across the furniture. I hate walking into the kitchen and having the blonde with oversized boobs staring back down at me. I hate walking into his room and seeing the latest girly picture on his computer desktop. I hate knowing that he's collected (on his computer) in excess of 300 pictures of women who are naked or clothed in gerbil sized fabric. I hate knowing that he's got a couple years worth of magazines stashed under his nightstand. I hate that he constantly checks chrudat.com to "rate" the girls he sees on there (with and without me present).

I know what my body is and is not capable of looking like, and I'm OK with that. But it doesn't make the above mentioned items sting any less.
Honestly, if this were me, I'd stop going over there. Your bf should be making his place more comfortable, to make you WANT to come over. Sounds like he's taking you for granted and I'm thinking a little less face time might help cure that.

[Winter Storm]

No. It's some surgically enhanced chick on a poster on the wall.

Whatthefuck? He has a poster in his kitchen? What is he, 19?

[Krishna]

Whatthefuck? He has a poster in his kitchen? What is he, 19?

Apparently.


Honestly, if this were me, I'd stop going over there. Your bf should be making his place more comfortable, to make you WANT to come over. Sounds like he's taking you for granted and I'm thinking a little less face time might help cure that.

Yep. I've been thinking about that a lot lately.

[CTGirl]

Honestly, if this were me, I'd stop going over there. Your bf should be making his place more comfortable, to make you WANT to come over. Sounds like he's taking you for granted and I'm thinking a little less face time might help cure that.

Agreed. I'm all about checking out the latest issue of Maxim when I go to a guy's place, but this guy sounds like he needs some serious eye-opening with regard to what a bf should be doing.

[WorkInProgress]

Honestly, if this were me, I'd stop going over there. Your bf should be making his place more comfortable, to make you WANT to come over. Sounds like he's taking you for granted and I'm thinking a little less face time might help cure that.

You heard it here first, folks.

I agree, for what it's worth. I'd also talk to him about it. And personally, I don't think I would put up with what you describe at all. If his porn is for his private time (as opposed to your shared time), then he needs to keep it private, IMO. (And, uh, what if his mother wanted to visit him?)

[Winter Storm]

(And, uh, what if his mother wanted to visit him?)

I'm guessin his mom doesn't come over. I can't believe anyone would basically decorate their place with porn, ya know, outside of a college dorm. That is definitely overkill.

[steve sperd]

Honestly, if this were me, I'd stop going over there. Your bf should be making his place more comfortable, to make you WANT to come over. Sounds like he's taking you for granted and I'm thinking a little less face time might help cure that.
Seriously how do guy like that get girlfriends while I'm fighting tooth and nail here for scraps.

[and1grad]

Seriously how do guy like that get girlfriends while I'm fighting tooth and nail here for scraps.
LOL!! I'm saying!! I BUST MY ASS to clean up for strangers let alone a girlfriend. This guy's got one and cant even be bothered to put his porn stash away. Nucking Futs!! :p

[Krishna]

LOL!! I'm saying!! I BUST MY ASS to clean up for strangers let alone a girlfriend. This guy's got one and cant even be bothered to put his porn stash away. Nucking Futs!! :p

I had the audacity to tuck some magazines away one time because I was tired of having to move them to sit down on the chair...he pulled them back out and said they needed to stay there so his roommie would see 'em.

[Winter Storm]

I had the audacity to tuck some magazines away one time because I was tired of having to move them to sit down on the chair...he pulled them back out and said they needed to stay there so his roommie would see 'em.
You can't even sit in a chair? Yeah, I wouldn't be hanging out over there much at all.

How old is this guy?

[and1grad]

I had the audacity to tuck some magazines away one time because I was tired of having to move them to sit down on the chair...he pulled them back out and said they needed to stay there so his roommie would see 'em.
I dont even know what to say to that...besides..Wow. Wait, speaking of wow, arent u the one dealing with the world of warcraft thing too? If thats you, holy shit you put up with a lot.

[steve sperd]

I had the audacity to tuck some magazines away one time because I was tired of having to move them to sit down on the chair...he pulled them back out and said they needed to stay there so his roommie would see 'em.
Does anyone not see this irony? He has the real thing (an actual real girl!) on his chair, and yet he wants to put pictures of fake girls in the chair instead. If I was there I would scream in his face "ARE YOU DAFT LAD???"

[Krishna]

I dont even know what to say to that...besides..Wow. Wait, speaking of wow, arent u the one dealing with the world of warcraft thing too? If thats you, holy shit you put up with a lot.

Yep, that was me. WoW went the way of the dodo bird after I finally pulled the plug and drew a line in the sand. He quit after I stopped going over there on days when he was planning to play at all (check the addiction thread if it's still here after our content loss).

How old is this guy?

24+...he's well on the way to 25.

[shimma]

I guess I'm speaking personally here, but I hate walking into my boyfriend's apartment and seeing the last 12 playboys scattered across the furniture. I hate walking into the kitchen and having the blonde with oversized boobs staring back down at me. I hate walking into his room and seeing the latest girly picture on his computer desktop. I hate knowing that he's collected (on his computer) in excess of 300 pictures of women who are naked or clothed in gerbil sized fabric. I hate knowing that he's got a couple years worth of magazines stashed under his nightstand. I hate that he constantly checks chrudat.com to "rate" the girls he sees on there (with and without me present).

I know what my body is and is not capable of looking like, and I'm OK with that. But it doesn't make the above mentioned items sting any less.

Krishna... I showed my FI and a couple of my (married and single) guy friends at work this post and they all say the same thing: Your BF is trying to passive-aggressively break up with you (or make you break up with him) by making you feel like /treating you like shit. I know it's hard if you love someone (and too bad you can't control it) but you should have seen the billion red flags the first time you saw his house when you saw the place decorated like that. I'm not trying to be a bitch, but you have mentioned you want marriage/children... do you really think this dude will give that stuff to you?!?

[wordsmith]

To be perfectly blunt, everything you've described about your boyfriend to date makes him come off as intensely disrespectful of you, and horribly disrespectful of the fact that he has a relationship with you, and this is definitely no exception.

I understand that this is a messageboard where people often come to vent, and that you might well be just venting about the bad and not mentioning the good, but I'd still urge you to imagine what your BF looks like to outside observers, from what you've presented. I'd also ask you to imagine what you'd tell a poster who was posting all of these things about their S.O.'s lack of consideration.

[KCboy]

that's why I try to date bisexuals

[ScottyTheBody]

I guess I'm speaking personally here, but I hate walking into my boyfriend's apartment and seeing the last 12 playboys scattered across the furniture. I hate walking into the kitchen and having the blonde with oversized boobs staring back down at me. I hate walking into his room and seeing the latest girly picture on his computer desktop. I hate knowing that he's collected (on his computer) in excess of 300 pictures of women who are naked or clothed in gerbil sized fabric. I hate knowing that he's got a couple years worth of magazines stashed under his nightstand. I hate that he constantly checks chrudat.com to "rate" the girls he sees on there (with and without me present).

I know what my body is and is not capable of looking like, and I'm OK with that. But it doesn't make the above mentioned items sting any less.

Yeah, okay I understand you having problems with that. I had misinterpreted the scenario (thinking occasional Maxim and very occasional porn which would be viewed/stored in private or with the SO). What he's doing is what I would consider excessive and almost anything taken to excess is usually not a good thing.

[shimma]

To be perfectly blunt, everything you've described about your boyfriend to date makes him come off as intensely disrespectful of you, and horribly disrespectful of the fact that he has a relationship with you, and this is definitely no exception.

I understand that this is a messageboard where people often come to vent, and that you might well be just venting about the bad and not mentioning the good, but I'd still urge you to imagine what your BF looks like to outside observers, from what you've presented. I'd also ask you to imagine what you'd tell a poster who was posting all of these things about their S.O.'s lack of consideration.

Yes, cosign. Thanks for saying it better than I could've Words.

[Krishna]

I understand that this is a messageboard where people often come to vent, and that you might well be just venting about the bad and not mentioning the good, but I'd still urge you to imagine what your BF looks like to outside observers, from what you've presented. I'd also ask you to imagine what you'd tell a poster who was posting all of these things about their S.O.'s lack of consideration.

I know. I'm the poster child for "do what I say, not what I do." I also thank you for being honest in your assessments for me. I'll take them with a grain of salt, since you're right, and I tend to use this to vent without mentioning any of the good qualities he has. I do have a defined line that I wont cross in terms of my well being. I'm trying to give him a chance to work on this issue because we have a lot invested in this relationship. I'll keep you posted on future developments.

For now, I'm going to contemplate starting a thread on the positive aspects of our SO's since all you hear me do is badmouth mine. :0

[ywt]

To be perfectly blunt, everything you've described about your boyfriend to date makes him come off as intensely disrespectful of you, and horribly disrespectful of the fact that he has a relationship with you, and this is definitely no exception.

I understand that this is a messageboard where people often come to vent, and that you might well be just venting about the bad and not mentioning the good, but I'd still urge you to imagine what your BF looks like to outside observers, from what you've presented. I'd also ask you to imagine what you'd tell a poster who was posting all of these things about their S.O.'s lack of consideration.

As a guy that's 24+, about to be 25, I also agree with this. Sounds beyond disrespectful to me. I understand what you're saying about just venting and not mentioning his good qualities, but I do think that perhaps another "line in the sand" might be needed here if having a conversation about it isn't doing the trick.

[Krishna]

Yeah, okay I understand you having problems with that. I had misinterpreted the scenario (thinking occasional Maxim and very occasional porn which would be viewed/stored in private or with the SO). What he's doing is what I would consider excessive and almost anything taken to excess is usually not a good thing.

Well, the booby blond chick fell down in the last week or so. It may have gotten stepped on with a wet shoe. It is now in a box in the corner.

The chick is now off the desktop background- a small concession, but moving in the right direction.

About 50% of the pictures have gone away too, with a promise to let me get rid of (most) of the rest of them with him next weekend.

That's a start, right?

[steve sperd]

That list is pretty good, I will keep it in mind if I ever get a girlfriend. A lot seems like I should know but I am pretty inept when it comes to girls.

[and1grad]

Well, the booby blond chick fell down in the last week or so. It may have gotten stepped on with a wet shoe. It is now in a box in the corner.

The chick is now off the desktop background- a small concession, but moving in the right direction.

About 50% of the pictures have gone away too, with a promise to let me get rid of (most) of the rest of them with him next weekend.

That's a start, right?
Definitely a start. So what made him start to wise up?

[Krishna]

Definitely a start. So what made him start to wise up?

I haven't got a clue what was behind the about face. Maybe he finally started listening to the words coming out of my mouth- or maybe his buddy finally told him how uncool it was.

[arrow]

or maybe his buddy finally told him how uncool it was.

For your sake I hope this wasn't the case... that he did this b/c of your feelings and not because he respects this other dude's opinion more.

[Krishna]

For your sake I hope this wasn't the case... that he did this b/c of your feelings and not because he respects this other dude's opinion more.

Ditto. No real way to tell though.

[Krishna]

This weekend marked a momentous occasion: 99% of the pictures have now been deleted. At first he fought and argued over them. Then I decided I'd had enough, told him exactly that, got up and left the room for 5 minutes, and when I came back nearly all the pictures were deleted in one fell swoop. :D

So:
Blonde boob chick is gone from the wall...99% of computer pictures are gone...all that now remains are the playboys strewn across the living room. And I can temporarily live with that.

[Bman120]

Good for you Krishna, glad this guy is getting it together. When i've had girls over, i'd always change the desktop if there was a woman on there. It just didnt feel right having that up there when a girl was present.

No porn is worth loosing a girlfriend over. At least none that i've seen anyhow. ;):

[inmediasres]

I guess I have a hard time understanding all this. I can't imagine even owning those magazines and wallpaper, let alone having them strewn everywhere. Especially when I already have someone I cherish and love.

Just seems odd.

[PenforPrez]

This weekend marked a momentous occasion: 99% of the pictures have now been deleted. At first he fought and argued over them. Then I decided I'd had enough, told him exactly that, got up and left the room for 5 minutes, and when I came back nearly all the pictures were deleted in one fell swoop. :D

So:
Blonde boob chick is gone from the wall...99% of computer pictures are gone...all that now remains are the playboys strewn across the living room. And I can temporarily live with that.

Yay!! :)

[Krishna]

I dont even know what to say to that...besides..Wow. Wait, speaking of wow, arent u the one dealing with the world of warcraft thing too? If thats you, holy shit you put up with a lot.


Hey, guess what Blizzard Entertainment decided to do? They decided to offer free 10 day trials of WoW to everyone who has canceled their accounts in the last year or so.:rolleyes: Annnnnd you guessed it! Dear Boyfriend has suggested that he wants to browse the new content...but only for 10 days.

Here we go, folks. If he picks up the game again, even for 10 days, I'm afraid he'll love the new content and grafics so much that he'll get sucked back in for real. Blizzard really is spawn of satan.:0

[hoodie]

Any chance you can explain your concern to him? It sounds like he's at least receptive to you talking to him about issues like WoW and girly posters and seems to want to change. There's really no purpose of checking the new stuff out unless he wants to go back into that mode. Were he a man with more resistance to the allure of online gaming, sure, but can you simply ask him please not to do that?

[Bocheezu]

Hey, guess what Blizzard Entertainment decided to do? They decided to offer free 10 day trials of WoW to everyone who has canceled their accounts in the last year or so.:rolleyes: Annnnnd you guessed it! Dear Boyfriend has suggested that he wants to browse the new content...but only for 10 days.

Here we go, folks. If he picks up the game again, even for 10 days, I'm afraid he'll love the new content and grafics so much that he'll get sucked back in for real. Blizzard really is spawn of satan.:0

Beyond leveling up to 70, there really wasn't much else to do for me. Depends on how the person plays the game, obviously, but after playing the game for 2+ years, the expansion was just a dud for me, all my friends got sick of the game after getting to 70 and quit.

Besides that point, there will always be a new online game. It's not like WoW will be the end of it. Maybe refresh my memory why you hate online games so much. He just played too much?

[GoogleGirl]

thank the heavens law school zaps most time out of my bf's schedule. He hasn't played in months!!! damn WoW. Krishna, I TOTALLY feel your pain...blasted Blizzard.

[CTGirl]

I dated a guy who was really into video games back in college. It bugged me a lot at first, cuz it felt like he was choosing his video games over spending time with me, and that sucked. So, I told him that I felt that way, and he explained how he wasnt looking at it that way at all, and really wished I would share his passion with him and play the games too. So, despite the fact that I sucked ass at the vast majority of the games he played, I made an attempt at some, and spent some lazy afternoons watching him play other games and cheering him on.

If this is something he's really passionate about, you may find it more constructive to work with him on it than making him choose between the things he loves in life. There's no reason he cant have both.

[wordsmith]

Eh. I think it depends on how much a focus the hobby is. I don't want to be with anybody who obsesses on any one activity all the time. It's just not that interesting to me to be with somebody who's wholly absorbed by one pursuit.

[Krishna]

Maybe refresh my memory why you hate online games so much. He just played too much?

-Attempted to postpone an anniversary dinner, then checked his watch the whole time we were out and sped home to get to the raid
-Not allowing me to call him between 8 and midnight on weeknights because he was raiding (or getting the "mmhmmmm...ok....right...mhmmm" response while I heard vent running in the background, if I took a chance and called then)
-Spent a long weekend gaming & hanging with his friends, and when I stop by at the end of said long weekend to say hello, asked whether or not I was staying, and if he could raid....
-using the phrase "girlfriend aggro" when describing in a post why he had to take a night off from raiding
-raiding until after midnight while I was sleeping in a bed 10 feet away, having come down special to visit him.

Basically I hate the fact that WoW is so time consuming and encourages excessive playing through what I consider the "do-loop"...play to get better stuff, which leads you to play more, which gets you better stuff...etc, etc. I don't hate all online games, just MMORPGs that encourage and reward excessive playing.

[wordsmith]

-Attempted to postpone an anniversary dinner, then checked his watch the whole time we were out and sped home to get to the raid
-Not allowing me to call him between 8 and midnight on weeknights because he was raiding (or getting the "mmhmmmm...ok....right...mhmmm" response while I heard vent running in the background, if I took a chance and called then)
-Spent a long weekend gaming & hanging with his friends, and when I stop by at the end of said long weekend to say hello, asked whether or not I was staying, and if he could raid....
-using the phrase "girlfriend aggro" when describing in a post why he had to take a night off from raiding
-raiding until after midnight while I was sleeping in a bed 10 feet away, having come down special to visit him.

You're seriously way more dedicated to salvaging something that I am, in a scenario like that. Don't you feel like you're putting in quite literally all of the work? What exactly rae you getting out of this arrangement other than disrespect and frustration? Sorry, but I have to ask. The bulk of the things you described above would be so not worth it to me.

[Krishna]

You're seriously way more dedicated to salvaging something that I am, in a scenario like that. Don't you feel like you're putting in quite literally all of the work? What exactly rae you getting out of this arrangement other than disrespect and frustration? Sorry, but I have to ask. The bulk of the things you described above would be so not worth it to me.

Sometimes I feel like I'm puting in all the work. However, there's a massive prologe-ish chunk to this story of "us" that I can't post publically because it would clearly identify me should he ever happen to stumble across this forum on my computer. I could tell the story privately if anyone was so inclined. It might shed more light on why I've given so much effort to saving this relationship.

(The WoW part was actually a quicker fix than you may be thinking...it took roughly 3 months of us being in the same city full-time for the habit to be broken)...

[shadeofgreen]

You have way more patience than me. I don't need a guy who will buy me roses and diamonds, but I do need a guy who will have more respect for me than a video game or a photo of a scantily clad celebrity.

My little brother (age 17) is into the whole WoW thing. Every time I drop by my parents' house he's sitting there at the computer. I warn him that his ass is going to grow roots into the chair. He does not listen.

My boyfriend is capable of that sort of gaming addiction. In fact, he said the girls he dated in college were often irritated with the time he spent playing computer games. Now he works as a software programmer and is less inclined to want to sit in front of the screen when he comes home at the end of the day. I'm glad I met him when I did. :D

[wordsmith]

No, I understand that every relationship has a backstory that affects how one reacts to various difficulties, and everyone obviously thinks their relationship is worth working for/making sacrifices for/ salvaging...but from what you describe, things sound very one-sided. Maybe they're not, in reality, and for you, I hope that they're not. But from what you describe, well, I simply hope your guy values things as much as you do, because the sacrifices seem to be all on your part.

[Krishna]

I simply hope your guy values things as much as you do, because the sacrifices seem to be all on your part.

Yeah. I hope he values everything too.

I can tell you that he's made sacrifices for me many times in the past, they just tend to go in phases. For a while he makes a bunch of sacrifices (drove across the state every weekend because I couldn't come home, etc), then I do (WoW and the chickiepoos namely).

[Bocheezu]

-Attempted to postpone an anniversary dinner, then checked his watch the whole time we were out and sped home to get to the raid

-Spent a long weekend gaming & hanging with his friends, and when I stop by at the end of said long weekend to say hello, asked whether or not I was staying, and if he could raid....

-raiding until after midnight while I was sleeping in a bed 10 feet away, having come down special to visit him.

Yeah, this is bad stuff that is not unreasonable to be upset about.

-Not allowing me to call him between 8 and midnight on weeknights because he was raiding (or getting the "mmhmmmm...ok....right...mhmmm" response while I heard vent running in the background, if I took a chance and called then)

You can't call during raids and expect anything. He can't stop playing to answer a phone without just bailing on the raid altogether. 40 people aren't going to wait for him to answer the phone, they are going to replace him. This is 100% unavoidable, and if it's a big issue for you, there's going to be no compromising on it.

-using the phrase "girlfriend aggro" when describing in a post why he had to take a night off from raiding.

You know what this means, I assume. I wouldn't take it personally, it's always used jokingly, but that's me. I imagine some girlfriends/wives get perturbed.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it too much now, you obviously broke him of it already, it's not like he can really start up again, certainly not on a 10-day trial. The guy's been out of the loop for 4+ months, no one would ever let him raid. He's done, unless he has guildies that really want him for some reason (doubtful). Raiding in WoW is pretty much dead and people are quitting in droves.

[Krishna]

You can't call during raids and expect anything. He can't stop playing to answer a phone without just bailing on the raid altogether. 40 people aren't going to wait for him to answer the phone, they are going to replace him. This is 100% unavoidable, and if it's a big issue for you, there's going to be no compromising on it.

During the time in question, I was working 7am-7pm, so by the time I had a chance to talk to him, it was raid time. It was really frustrating to not be able to have a decent conversation 5 days a week. Plus, I know that there was some downtime in their 4+ hour raiding stints, and if he wanted to head me off at the pass, he could have said "hey, how about I'll call you back in 30 minutes", or whatever.

As for the term "aggro" being used to describe a girlfriend or wife....while you personally may use it jokingly, I can assure you that 90% of the people I heard using it on vent or saw using it in forums were NOT joking. Then it becomes seriously disrespectful.

[wordsmith]

During the time in question, I was working 7am-7pm, so by the time I had a chance to talk to him, it was raid time. It was really frustrating to not be able to have a decent conversation 5 days a week.

You know, I really don't see how anybody could reasonably suggest that it should be pretty cool with any significant other if one is just not available for so much as conversation five of seven days a week. How on earth is that conducive to a relationship? Sorry, but I just don't see how you can keep that type of schedule on a hobby and expect to maintain a relationship at the same time.

[Krishna]

You know, I really don't see how anybody could reasonably suggest that it should be pretty cool with any significant other if one is just not available for so much as conversation five of seven days a week. How on earth is that conducive to a relationship? Sorry, but I just don't see how you can keep that type of schedule on a hobby and expect to maintain a relationship at the same time.

Exactly! Now, had we been living together, maybe we could have struck some compromise. But living 3 hours away, with me trying to juggle the last semester of school (internship) with another part time job...that got old fast. I seriously have nothing against games as a hobby. But. It stops being a hobby when you pursue it like a job (i.e. gotta be here 100% attentive for X amount of time, no ifs ands or buts, gotta have an 80% attendance or I'll lose my spot). I have no problem with other games, like Warcraft III, in which a game can be played for a relatively short length of time.

[Bocheezu]

You know, I really don't see how anybody could reasonably suggest that it should be pretty cool with any significant other if one is just not available for so much as conversation five of seven days a week. How on earth is that conducive to a relationship? Sorry, but I just don't see how you can keep that type of schedule on a hobby and expect to maintain a relationship at the same time.

Yet a bijillion people do it just perfectly fine, mostly because their schedules don't conflict like they do in this case. They get everything out of the way before 8pm and then the guy raids and the girl does what she wants to do.

[CTGirl]

Yeah. I hope he values everything too.

I can tell you that he's made sacrifices for me many times in the past, they just tend to go in phases. For a while he makes a bunch of sacrifices (drove across the state every weekend because I couldn't come home, etc), then I do (WoW and the chickiepoos namely).

Umm, you HOPE he values everything???

You've been with this guy a while, I'd think at this point, I'd be damn sure whether he values me or not.

[Chameleon]

Yet a bijillion people do it just perfectly fine, mostly because their schedules don't conflict like they do in this case. They get everything out of the way before 8pm and then the guy raids and the girl does what she wants to do.
Somehow I doubt that the bijillion gamers (a) have girlfriends (b) have girlfriends that aren't resentful about the 1-2 hour time slot they are so graciously given before their men go off and raid. I'd LOVE to have my boyfriend consider spending time with me as "getting everything out of the way" and for a video game.

[Hockey Dork]

Somehow I doubt that the bijillion gamers (a) have girlfriends (b) have girlfriends that aren't resentful about the 1-2 hour time slot they are so graciously given before their men go off and raid. I'd LOVE to have my boyfriend consider spending time with me as "getting everything out of the way" and for a video game.

Actually I was dating and living with my gf at the time for 4 years, all the while playing MMORPGs. If it wasn't WoW it was SWG.

There is plenty of time in the day/week/month to do both and still live completely productive lives. Stop blaming the game and the company like it is the problem. It's the person that is the problem, blame them.

I had no problem playing video games and dating my girlfriend. But for everyone who says it's a problem it's just easier to blame the game than it is to blame yourself for being in a shitty relationship.

[Bocheezu]

Somehow I doubt that the bijillion gamers (a) have girlfriends (b) have girlfriends that aren't resentful about the 1-2 hour time slot they are so graciously given before their men go off and raid. I'd LOVE to have my boyfriend consider spending time with me as "getting everything out of the way" and for a video game.

Don't make it out to be a bunch of geeky losers sitting in front of the computer, because it's not. A decent amount of guys do have girlfriends, but usually they're women that play along with them, which is more than you think. There are also women that are perfectly happy getting sparse attention during the week for full attention on the weekends.

Don't call it "a video game," it really is more than that. You can say "gimme a break, you're full of shit, geeky loser" which you're free to do, but it really can be a lot of fun (certainly a lot more fun than seeing a movie or going to a bar or club, and a hell of a lot cheaper), and working with 39 other people (24 in the expansion) toward a goal of beating a boss and accomplishing that goal is a great feeling.

[Chameleon]

Don't make it out to be a bunch of geeky losers sitting in front of the computer, because it's not. A decent amount of guys do have girlfriends, but usually they're women that play along with them, which is more than you think. There are also women that are perfectly happy getting sparse attention during the week for full attention on the weekends.

Don't call it "a video game," it really is more than that. You can say "gimme a break, you're full of shit, geeky loser" which you're free to do, but it really can be a lot of fun (certainly a lot more fun than seeing a movie or going to a bar or club, and a hell of a lot cheaper), and working with 39 other people (24 in the expansion) toward a goal of beating a boss and accomplishing that goal is a great feeling.
Except in Krishna's case, she wasn't happy getting sparse attention (read - no attention) on the weekdays and she wasn't getting full attention on the weekends either. Some people are fine with the setup you've mentioned, the situation Krishna has described would have been intolerable for a lot of people.

I'm glad you enjoy it and gives you a sense of accomplishment. Everyone has to find someone that they are compatible with. I would prefer seeing a movie, going to a bar or a club over a computer game and would hope that my boyfriend would not let a computer game set the schedule of our real world lives.

[Hockey Dork]

Don't make it out to be a bunch of geeky losers sitting in front of the computer, because it's not. A decent amount of guys do have girlfriends, but usually they're women that play along with them, which is more than you think. There are also women that are perfectly happy getting sparse attention during the week for full attention on the weekends.

Don't call it "a video game," it really is more than that. You can say "gimme a break, you're full of shit, geeky loser" which you're free to do, but it really can be a lot of fun (certainly a lot more fun than seeing a movie or going to a bar or club, and a hell of a lot cheaper), and working with 39 other people (24 in the expansion) toward a goal of beating a boss and accomplishing that goal is a great feeling.

I agree to the last part of your statement, but this..

"certainly a lot more fun than seeing a movie or going to a bar or club, and a hell of a lot cheaper"

That's your opinion but honestly have you even done any of that? Seems like WoW is the only thing you do.

[arrow]

Don't make it out to be a bunch of geeky losers sitting in front of the computer, because it's not. A decent amount of guys do have girlfriends, but usually they're women that play along with them, which is more than you think. There are also women that are perfectly happy getting sparse attention during the week for full attention on the weekends.

Don't call it "a video game," it really is more than that. You can say "gimme a break, you're full of shit, geeky loser" which you're free to do, but it really can be a lot of fun (certainly a lot more fun than seeing a movie or going to a bar or club, and a hell of a lot cheaper), and working with 39 other people (24 in the expansion) toward a goal of beating a boss and accomplishing that goal is a great feeling.

Woah, don't take it so personally! I didn't read anything about geeks or losers at all into the comment that you quoted. She merely stated that not everyone has a significant other that they have to worry about so they have freedom to take as much time as possible for the game.

As I've posted before, I enjoy playing WoW with my boyfriend, but even if I didn't play and he did, he would certainly prioritize me over the game. In fact, he plays another character alone, and he only plays it when I'm out/doing homework/sleeping or doing something in general that can't involve him. It isn't essential that he play all the time, and he doesn't, and I don't (of course that's why we aren't level 70's, but whatev). As someone mentioned before: it's not the game, it's the player. It's easier and feels better to blame a game for your relationship problems than it is to blame the relationship itself.

To the OP: I hope you don't move in with him just to have more time with him in between his game playing. Moving in won't make him prioritize you more. It will just make it easier for him to keep his priorities just as they are.

[CTGirl]

There is plenty of time in the day/week/month to do both and still live completely productive lives. Stop blaming the game and the company like it is the problem. It's the person that is the problem, blame them.

I had no problem playing video games and dating my girlfriend. But for everyone who says it's a problem it's just easier to blame the game than it is to blame yourself for being in a shitty relationship.

Yeah, I totally agree with this. Like I said, I've dated an obsessive gamer, for many years, and we figured out a way for him to do what he loved and for me to feel valued at the same time. If you're in a relationship where this isnt happening, it's becuase of him and his issues, not the gaming.

[EmberMae]

While individuals are responsible for their own choices, and have a right to make them, it must also be considered that certain games (MMORPGs) are designed to take up inordinante amounts of time and be a life subsitute rather than a diversion. WoW is certainly better than EverQuest (which my fiance and I used to play), but it is still designed, not for the optimum amount of fun, but to make things take as long as players will reasonably tolerate so that they will continue playing a monthly fee. And there are a large subset of masochists out there who feel more "accomplished" if they have to spend in excess of 100 real life hours in the pursuit of the next goal, and who vehemently oppose any efforts on the part of developers to make such games more friendly to a casual player. Also keep in mind that in such discussions a "casual player" is usually described as one who plays 10-20 hours a week rather than 30-40. Not really all that casual.

Many of the players will say that if it wasn't the game it would be something else, but as I've seen the change in my parents since they started playing, and I saw the change in myself when I played, I would have to disagree. These games take up more time than other hobbies, and if you are a goal-oriented person, it is easy to get sucked in in the pursuit of your goals, as casual players without a care for progression would be better served by the single player games out there. I played EQ for 3 years on and off, but eventually realized that I was on a treadmill and I would rather have a multitude of varied hobbies than one that felt increasingly like a second job. My parents did not.

I have two parents with whom I must schedule an appointment in advance and I can forget seeing them on Sunday, their big "raid day." They are in a more casual guild but they still play in excess of 40 hours a week, and live a terribly unhealthy lifestyle when they could if they wanted to, engage in more active and varied pursuits.

My parents taught me moderation, they taught me a love of learning and reading. They never read anymore.

I fear for their health, but since they are my parents, they are above reproach and will not listen to a thing I say. In planning my wedding, my mother's raid schedule is as untouchable as my work schedule, and it is frustrating to have to constantly work around that and alter any of MY weekend plans so that we can get together when she is not raiding. I am just thankful my siblings and I were mostly grown before this started.

[Hockey Dork]

While individuals are responsible for their own choices, and have a right to make them, it must also be considered that certain games (MMORPGs) are designed to take up inordinante amounts of time and be a life subsitute rather than a diversion. WoW is certainly better than EverQuest (which my fiance and I used to play), but it is still designed, not for the optimum amount of fun, but to make things take as long as players will reasonably tolerate so that they will continue playing a monthly fee. And there are a large subset of masochists out there who feel more "accomplished" if they have to spend in excess of 100 real life hours in the pursuit of the next goal, and who vehemently oppose any efforts on the part of developers to make such games more friendly to a casual player. Also keep in mind that in such discussions a "casual player" is usually described as one who plays 10-20 hours a week rather than 30-40. Not really all that casual.

Many of the players will say that if it wasn't the game it would be something else, but as I've seen the change in my parents since they started playing, and I saw the change in myself when I played, I would have to disagree. These games take up more time than other hobbies, and if you are a goal-oriented person, it is easy to get sucked in in the pursuit of your goals, as casual players without a care for progression would be better served by the single player games out there. I played EQ for 3 years on and off, but eventually realized that I was on a treadmill and I would rather have a multitude of varied hobbies than one that felt increasingly like a second job. My parents did not.

I have two parents with whom I must schedule an appointment in advance and I can forget seeing them on Sunday, their big "raid day." They are in a more casual guild but they still play in excess of 40 hours a week, and live a terribly unhealthy lifestyle when they could if they wanted to, engage in more active and varied pursuits.

My parents taught me moderation, they taught me a love of learning and reading. They never read anymore.

I fear for their health, but since they are my parents, they are above reproach and will not listen to a thing I say. In planning my wedding, my mother's raid schedule is as untouchable as my work schedule, and it is frustrating to have to constantly work around that and alter any of MY weekend plans so that we can get together when she is not raiding. I am just thankful my siblings and I were mostly grown before this started.

Sounds like justification to me. You are angry at your parents and their decisions and how they have affected you, so you lay the blame on the game.

The game is not to blame. Your parents are. The game has nothing to do with it. If they lack the willpower enough to see what is important in life or in a video game, that is their fault. Nobody elses. Do you blame crack for addicting the person?

[EmberMae]

Do you blame crack for addicting the person?
Of course I do, in part. Just because the person was responsible for their bad decision to use crack doesn't change my opinion that crack is bad. But at least in that case, there is widespread knowledge that crack is addictive and bad for you. Whereas the very real fact that MMORPGs are designed to be addictive and take inordinate amounts of time to be successful is lost in empty rhetoric about choice. Yes people unwisely choose the games over their families, relationships, jobs, etc, and that is their choice. But let's not obscure the fact that the very nature and intentional design of these types of games encourage and reward such behavior.

[cache]

Don't call it "a video game," it really is more than that. You can say "gimme a break, you're full of shit, geeky loser" which you're free to do, but it really can be a lot of fun (certainly a lot more fun than seeing a movie or going to a bar or club, and a hell of a lot cheaper), and working with 39 other people (24 in the expansion) toward a goal of beating a boss and accomplishing that goal is a great feeling.

It is a game. You are not actually doing the thing you are doing. You are not putting a hunting party together to go beat a boss. You are telling your character to do so. Fine line maybe, but that's my opinion. Personally, standing on top of a mountain after a long difficult hike up is far more rewarding because it is real....I did it. It wasn't me telling a computer to do it. And BTW, the only cost of doing that was the gas it took me to drive to the trailhead. And should I get into the health benefits of doing so over spending an afternoon with WoW?

But to each his/her own...so play on...

[Hockey Dork]

Of course I do, in part. Just because the person was responsible for their bad decision to use crack doesn't change my opinion that crack is bad. But at least in that case, there is widespread knowledge that crack is addictive and bad for you. Whereas the very real fact that MMORPGs are designed to be addictive and take inordinate amounts of time to be successful is lost in empty rhetoric about choice. Yes people unwisely choose the games over their families, relationships, jobs, etc, and that is their choice. But let's not obscure the fact that the very nature and intentional design of these types of games encourage and reward such behavior.

Wow. Not the game.. just wow. While crack is an extreme comparison and an unfair one it still makes my point. The person is to blame. There is no fault of Blizzards here. Yes, the game is designed to be a time sink, but that doesn't mean the person HAS to do it, or HAS to play the game at all. They choose to because they find some silly reason, like how they are godly in a video game while they are nobodys in real life. Again.. their fault.

People who make the argument that the game is at fault in any way shape or form are just trying to make excuses for themselves or others who can't man up enough to walk away from a game that is doing nothing for them as human beings.

[redav]

Wow. Not the game.. just wow. While crack is an extreme comparison and an unfair one it still makes my point. The person is to blame. There is no fault of Blizzards here. Yes, the game is designed to be a time sink, but that doesn't mean the person HAS to do it, or HAS to play the game at all. They choose to because they find some silly reason, like how they are godly in a video game while they are nobodys in real life. Again.. their fault.

People who make the argument that the game is at fault in any way shape or form are just trying to make excuses for themselves or others who can't man up enough to walk away from a game that is doing nothing for them as human beings.
Okay, then how about this compromise: the game encourages bad behavior that leads to bad consequences.

Tobacco companies can use the same argument of "People choose to use our product. If they are too weak-willed to quit, it's their fault, not ours," but that doesn't get them off the hook--they knowingly & intentionally sell a harmful product. It appears gaming companies also design their products to be addictive. (I think this is an important test--if it is intentionally designed to be addictive, then they have endeavored to cause harm for profit, which is reprehensible.) The difference is that Blizzard's products can be used in moderation without causing harm, more like McDonald's food. But like McD's, are they free of blame for putting a potentially harmful product on the market? Fast food has been pressured to change their product so that it is less harmful. Gaming companies may be pressured to do the same.

[Hockey Dork]

Okay, then how about this compromise: the game encourages bad behavior that leads to bad consequences.

Tobacco companies can use the same argument of "People choose to use our product. If they are too weak-willed to quit, it's their fault, not ours," but that doesn't get them off the hook--they knowingly & intentionally sell a harmful product. It appears gaming companies also design their products to be addictive. (I think this is an important test--if it is intentionally designed to be addictive, then they have endeavored to cause harm for profit, which is reprehensible.) The difference is that Blizzard's products can be used in moderation without causing harm, more like McDonald's food. But like McD's, are they free of blame for putting a potentially harmful product on the market? Fast food has been pressured to change their product so that it is less harmful. Gaming companies may be pressured to do the same.

Testing a game to determine if it is or isn't addictive? Are you kidding? Tetris is more addictive to me than WoW was. Or even Putt Putt Golf. I play that shit all day long.

Tobacco has chemicals that are proven to be addictive. Even McD produces reactions in your brain that can result in feeling "down" after not eating their food.

Blizzard makes a video game. Nothing makes the person keep coming back to the video game except that persons weak will to do nothing but try and get to that next level instead of say, going outside and having a life.

[and1grad]

The problem with examples like drugs and tobacco are that the substances themselves are TOXIC. Its not an addiction issue. What product that is sold isnt designed to somehow be addictive? I give video game makers, like whoever makes WoW, a lot of credit for being able to keep gamers playing their game so effectively. I think every gamemaker DREAMS of making a game that successful. Its just good business.

[wordsmith]

Anything can be psychologically addictive...it's all in your personality, your chemical makeup, your environmental influences/examples set, and your own personal level of willpower/set of priorities.

[Hockey Dork]

Anything can be psychologically addictive...it's all in your personality, your chemical makeup, your environmental influences/examples set, and your own personal level of willpower/set of priorities.

I've highlighted the important part of that statement for Mae. None of which relates to the game.

[wordsmith]

Really, I've never thought the gaming itself (or the football, or the fishing, or the [fill in the blank with any activity that is being focused on to the detriment of a relationship) as a problem...I see stuff like that as a pretty clear cut statement that the relationship is valued less than the activity, when the activity always comes first. The problem isn't the individual pursuit, but that the relationship is being put secondarily to the individual pursuit.

[and1grad]

I guess at that point, the people in the relationship need to figure out what needs to change, the relationship or the individual pursuit. Could be either, or both.

[wordsmith]

I will doubtless get flamed for putting this out there, but I don't see myself staying in something where the relationship is sitting second seat to a hobby. Some people don't mind it, but for me, relationships come first, except in extreme situations. If a relationship's not my top priority, then I'm not in one. If I'm in one, it's my top priority. Of course, that means that I'm best suited to somebody who shares that value.

[Bocheezu]

I agree to the last part of your statement, but this..

"certainly a lot more fun than seeing a movie or going to a bar or club, and a hell of a lot cheaper"

That's your opinion but honestly have you even done any of that? Seems like WoW is the only thing you do.

I don't know where my response post went, but whatever.

I played WoW a lot. I enjoyed every minute of it. Eventually, I wasn't having fun playing it, so I stopped. End of story.

I've done all of the stuff I described above and just don't like it. I hate smoke and I hate drinking. Bars and clubs are not for me. Movies are a waste of money. I've tried a lot of other things, but online games are a lot more fulfilling for me and much cheaper at the same time. So I play them instead.

If something funner came along, I would do that. Everybody seems to assume that if you play the game that much, something else must be suffering as a result. It's just not true. I run everyday to stay in shape. I hang out with friends on the weekend. This is just the best option on the weekdays.

[and1grad]

I don't know where my response post went, but whatever.
I deleted it along with another.

words, I dont think thats unfair. Relationships SHOULD come first. I'm just wondering at what point is the relationship the thing that should compromise for the greater good. One of the things you mentioned is football. A lot of guys like watching football during the football season. Its one day out of the week. Is that too much for a relationship? It might be to someone's SO. I'm wondering if at that point, should that SO be the one to compromise rather than letting the guy watch football once a week? Its not always easy to say when the relationship actually is being put on the backburner versus someone overreacting to an SO's individual pursuit.

[Chameleon]

With the football example, couldn't you also argue that it's not just one day of the week but half of an weekend?

[wordsmith]

I deleted it along with another.

words, I dont think thats unfair. Relationships SHOULD come first. I'm just wondering at what point is the relationship the thing that should compromise for the greater good. One of the things you mentioned is football. A lot of guys like watching football during the football season. Its one day out of the week. Is that too much for a relationship? It might be to someone's SO. I'm wondering if at that point, should that SO be the one to compromise rather than letting the guy watch football once a week? Its not always easy to say when the relationship actually is being put on the backburner versus someone overreacting to an SO's individual pursuit.

This is a good point...you know my real-life example, where my boyfriend moved an hour away from me for work, and due to our work schedules, Sunday was really the only day we could spend any significant amount of time together. So when it was football season, and the attitude was, "I can't really see you anymore until football season is over," that told me a lot about where our relationship stood. One day a week is definitely not a lot, though, in most cases. In most cases, you're NOT disrespecting your relationship if you have an occasionally hobby that wins out. But in the example given earlier, when an SO is incommunicado literally every weeknight between 8 and midnight due to gaming, that, too, sends a message about where one ranks his relationship in importance. It's when something that's not the relationship consistently takes precedence over the relationship that there are issues.

[Hockey Dork]

With the football example, couldn't you also argue that it's not just one day of the week but half of an weekend?

Sounds like the excuse of someone who just wants to pull time away from what someone enjoys for themselves. It's 1 day out of 7 in the week.

[and1grad]

With the football example, couldn't you also argue that it's not just one day of the week but half of an weekend?
It depends. If your circumstance is like words' was, then it could be a real problem. But I could also say, its not even really one whole day as much as its like 4 hours out of it. Personally, I dont see a big problem with setting aside Sundays for staying in and watching football anymore than I see one with setting aside some other day for another hobby. Both people in the relationship arent always going to have the same hobby so if you're going to ask an SO to give one up for you, I guess you should be prepared to give one that you find as interesting up or be resented for making him do that.

[embrassezla]

Sounds like the excuse of someone who just wants to pull time away from what someone enjoys for themselves. It's 1 day out of 7 in the week.
I took Chameleon's point to be that if you're in a relationship with someone where you both work standard schedules (M-F 9-5), you are only seeing each other on weeknights and weekends. I know my weeknights are VERY short, so my SO and I see each other most on the weekends. We also live together, so the weekends are the only time we have to clean up the house & run errands. If his Saturdays disappeared for several months out of the year, it would not only eat into our already sparse time together, but it would interfere with the way we run our household.

So depending on the situation, yes, 1 day out of 7 could be a big deal.

[Hockey Dork]

I took Chameleon's point to be that if you're in a relationship with someone where you both work standard schedules (M-F 9-5), you are only seeing each other on weeknights and weekends. I know my weeknights are VERY short, so my SO and I see each other most on the weekends. We also live together, so the weekends are the only time we have to clean up the house & run errands. If his Saturdays disappeared for several months out of the year, it would not only eat into our already sparse time together, but it would interfere with the way we run our household.

So depending on the situation, yes, 1 day out of 7 could be a big deal.

So you can't do anything during the week? 5pm on leaves plenty of time for a nice dinner, catching a flick together, going to see a concert or other event?

It seems like people make WAY too much out of the weekend. Your SO also saves that time to set aside to do something he/she has been waiting all week to do and has to sacrifice that because you don't want to go out during the week? Isn't part of that compromise that is "relationships" letting your SO have time to themselves to accomplish something that maybe you don't enjoy but you want your SO to enjoy so they are happy?

[wordsmith]

I would hope that my SO could be just as happy doing things we both enjoy as he is doing solitary pursuits...otherwise, I'm not sure that there's any real reason to be in a relationship.

[Hockey Dork]

I would hope that my SO could be just as happy doing things we both enjoy as he is doing solitary pursuits...otherwise, I'm not sure that there's any real reason to be in a relationship.

I'm sure they would, but does that mean they have to give up with they like that you don't?

[wordsmith]

Of course not, as long as that activity doesn't take precedence over our relationship the majority of the time. Like in the gaming case earlier.

I don't imagine that I will ever date a guy who really would want to take up my crocheting hobby and do that with me. But I also won't be putting that hobby consistently ahead of spending time with him.

[shadeofgreen]

I'm not a sports fan, and I'm not dating a sports fan, and this thread has confirmed that it's definitely better for me this way. I have trouble understanding the enthusiasm. If your hobby was playing football, and your team had practices Sunday afternoons, then yeah, have fun, we'll catch up later. But if the guy was going to put watching a game on TV over spending time with me on the one day of the week we can spend time together? Not interested.

I realize I'm judging certain hobbies as more valid than others rather than just looking at how people regard their hobbies in relation to their SOs. And...I'm not really going to apologize for that. I think setting aside hours of your life to watch other people play a game is pretty lame, especially when it means sacrificing spending time with someone you care about for an entire season.

I guess that's why I'm not dating a sports fan.

[wordsmith]

I'm not a sports fan, and I'm not dating a sports fan, and this thread has confirmed that it's definitely better for me this way. I have trouble understanding the enthusiasm. If your hobby was playing football, and your team had practices Sunday afternoons, then yeah, have fun, we'll catch up later. But if the guy was going to put watching a game on TV over spending time with me on the one day of the week we can spend time together? Not interested.

I realize I'm judging certain hobbies as more valid than others rather than just looking at how people regard their hobbies in relation to their SOs. And...I'm not really going to apologize for that. I think setting aside hours of your life to watch other people play a game is pretty lame, especially when it means sacrificing spending time with someone you care about for an entire season.

I guess that's why I'm not dating a sports fan.

Perhaps not "more valid," so much as "more of mutual interest." I'm not a major sports fan in any regard (but I will go along to baseball games if it means time spent sitting outside, enjoying the fresh air, even if I don't care too much about the game). And I don't care if somebody has hobbies I don't much care about, nor should he care if I have ones he doesn't much care about...as long as neither is habitually put ahead of our relationship. And as long as we DO have MUTUAL interests that we make a point to indulge together.

[and1grad]

I think its lame to go about harshly judging someone else's hobbies unless you're willing to list out yours so they can be judged as harshly.

[Chameleon]

I'm sure they would, but does that mean they have to give up with they like that you don't?
If they can't come up with an arrangement that doesn't leave one of them resentful or feeling neglected, then there is a basic incompatibility there. shadeofgreen doesn't want to be a football widow, I doubt if many women if given a choice would want that. However, people have put up/grown accustomed/made excuses/come to terms with much more/worse than an absentee SO on weeknights or Sunday afternoons. This board has repeatedly proven that one person's grating dealbreaker is another's idea of tolerable coupledom.

[shadeofgreen]

Perhaps not "more valid," so much as "more of mutual interest."
Well, I don't know, while writing that I was trying to be honest with myself. I have as little interest in playing football as I do watching it on TV, but if I was dating a guy who was in a league and had to go to practice every Sunday afternoon, yeah I might be disappointed in not getting to see him during the season but I'd understand. I'd have a much, much harder time understanding if he wasn't willing to spend time with me on Sunday afternoons because he was watching a game on TV.

It's not that I'm anti-sports. I'd feel the same way if I was dating a guy who refused to miss an episode of American Idol every time it's on. For some people watching pro sports, or American Idol, or LOST are actually very important things that must be done every week, TiVo just doesn't cut it. I have trouble wrapping my brain around it, and if I was dating someone with such a "hobby" I'm quite sure it would become an issue.

On the other hand, I feel like most hobbies aren't so time-specific. I like taking photos. I can do that on my own time and don't have to do it at 4:30 on Sunday afternoon.

I think its lame to go about harshly judging someone else's hobbies unless you're willing to list out yours so they can be judged as harshly.
Well, okay. There's a hobbies thread on one of the work forums that I've already posted to. Have at it. But I don't see why, since I'm looking at the hobby of a theoretical boyfriend I've never had, not you or anyone else. Anyone who wants to get excited about football can do so with my blessing, because I'm not dating any of them. I'm not going to claim to understand it, but I don't think I need to.

[and1grad]

Well, okay. There's a hobbies thread on one of the work forums that I've already posted to. Have at it. But I don't see why, since I'm looking at the hobby of a theoretical boyfriend I've never had, not you or anyone else. Anyone who wants to get excited about football can do so with my blessing, because I'm not dating any of them. I'm not going to claim to understand it, but I don't think I need to.
Its lame to badmouth someone's hobby just b/c you're not into it. But if thats what you do, "have at it."

[Krishna]

Wow, look at how this ballooned outward again!


Please understand: I appreciate that everyone has different hobbies.

Key word being hobby. I checked a dictionary tonight, and the main definition is "an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation." To me, an activity that eats up as much time as either 1) attending school or 2) working a full time job, is NOT a hobby anymore.

Moderation is key, and as a whole, WoW is not built towards moderation. Yes, many people are able to limit their own time on WoW, but there are an equal number who get sucked in for whatever reason. My boyfriend played WoW like it was a job...he scheduled late classes on mornings after raids (so, every day), he avoided talking to/hanging out with people during the week so that he would be on time for raids. He played whether he was sick or healthy, whether I was there or not, and whether or not there was something in "real life" that was going on.

I encourage hobbies in my boyfriend. I particularily encourage those hobbies that have some real life payoffs...hunting...fishing...reading...taking community classes...and yes, before you even say it, I even support some other games. Seriously. If you can handle WoW without turning into the spitting image of the South Park kids in the WoW episode, more power to you. I've just watched 3 people (in addition to my boyfriend) throw away 2+ years of their life chasing around an online fantasy world.



And to whoever told me not to move in with him before the gaming was resolved....dont worry. It ain't gonna happen anytime soon (moving in, that is).

[Krishna]

I've been telling him that it bothers me for nearly a year now. I finally got him to delete some of his accumulated computer images a week or two ago, but he bitched the whole time about how they shouldnt bother me, how he never looks at them, how he only downloads them because he gets bored, and how "it really isnt a big deal."


I am resurecting this thread from the dead because I need advice. This morning while my boyfriend was gone, I was on his computer looking for pics I had taken with his digital camera on a recent vacation. Instead of my pictures, I stumbled across file after file of porn. Videos, pictures, etc. Now, this spring I had it out with him over the file 'o naked women that was on his computer, and he deleted them. All of them. Grudgingly, but he did it. I told him how I felt about them, and he said he'd stop. What I found today indicates that he has not stopped, but has only slowed down a bit. My question is....how do I address this now? I need help phrasing my frustration and dissapointment so that I dont sound like I'm attacking him and have this degenerate into a big pile of @#$%. Help ASAP would be great.

[AshleyJordan]

I am resurecting this thread from the dead because I need advice. This morning while my boyfriend was gone, I was on his computer looking for pics I had taken with his digital camera on a recent vacation. Instead of my pictures, I stumbled across file after file of porn. Videos, pictures, etc. Now, this spring I had it out with him over the file 'o naked women that was on his computer, and he deleted them. All of them. Grudgingly, but he did it. I told him how I felt about them, and he said he'd stop. What I found today indicates that he has not stopped, but has only slowed down a bit. My question is....how do I address this now? I need help phrasing my frustration and dissapointment so that I dont sound like I'm attacking him and have this degenerate into a big pile of @#$%. Help ASAP would be great.

What was the agreement? That he wouldn't look at any porn ever? Did he know you went on his computer? Just need to know so I can frame my suggestion accordingly. Also, I'm sorry you're going through this, Krishna!

[Krishna]

What was the agreement? That he wouldn't look at any porn ever? Did he know you went on his computer? Just need to know so I can frame my suggestion accordingly. Also, I'm sorry you're going through this, Krishna!

I didn't ask him to stop looking at porn. I told him that it was a problem for me that he collected and saved porn. I asked that he stop downloading the pics and saving them. He knows I use his computer, and when I wasnt living at home, he used mine when he visited me. He probably wont be thrilled that I found these, but they were in a folder that was labled almost identically to the folder I thought MY pics were in. This is NOT what I wanted to spend my Sunday thinking about. :0

[AshleyJordan]

So did he agree to stop saving the pics? I guess my question is did he break a promise not to do something?

[Krishna]

So did he agree to stop saving the pics? I guess my question is did he break a promise not to do something?

I'm 99.5% sure he agreed to stop saving those pics, and therefore broke his word to me.

[AshleyJordan]

OK, then that's a problem. I would say something on the order of, "I was trying to access our vacation pics on your PC the other day, and I stumbled across a folder called Young Asian Sl*ts, and I'm pretty disappointed because I thought we had agreed that you weren't going to continue saving those pictures."

[AshleyJordan]

Oh. And, ask yourself if this is something you can live with. To be honest, I think most guys look at porn once in a while, but I can see where the saving lots of porn to his PC thing might be a little weird.

It would bother me that my SO continued to do something that hurts me, rather than the "thing" (in this case, hording porn,) itself.

[Krishna]

OK, then that's a problem. I would say something on the order of, "I was trying to access our vacation pics on your PC the other day, and I stumbled across a folder called Young Asian Sl*ts, and I'm pretty disappointed because I thought we had agreed that you weren't going to continue saving those pictures."

Yeah...I just have a feeling that this will degenerate into a shouting match where he says "it shouldnt matter if I have these" and I end up in tears storming out because I cant take it anymore. :0

[AshleyJordan]

Then I'm gonna venture to guess that the problem is NOT the porn, but that you feel (perhaps justifiably,) that he doesn't respect your wishes. I know when I have a fight like that with my SO, and I get really, really upset, it's not because of whatever the immediate cause of the fight, but because I feel that he's being selfish. I have to say, to my SO's credit, that it takes a while for the message to sink in, but once he knows that something's important to me, he acts accordingly. That's really the issue-- is your BF just being really insensitive to your needs/wishes?

[Krishna]

Oh. And, ask yourself if this is something you can live with. To be honest, I think most guys look at porn once in a while, but I can see where the saving lots of porn to his PC thing might be a little weird.

It would bother me that my SO continued to do something that hurts me, rather than the "thing" (in this case, hording porn,) itself.

I know he looks at porn. My problem is with saving it, like it's something special and memorable. It makes me feel like shit. I realized today that he has more porn saved on his computer than he has pics of the two of us. The fact that he's continued to horde this shit just feels incredibly disrespectful...it makes me wonder, if I can't get him to see/understand/respect my feelings on this...how are we going to build a life together?

[AshleyJordan]

OK, so I think you guys should have a really serious discussion about this. He continues to do something that hurts you a great deal. I'd personally find that unacceptable, and I'd communicate that very calmly and firmly. Honestly, can you put up with this long-term? Is this something that you can tolerate in your relationship? I've also found that some ppl very rarely make huge changes in their lifestyles, and so you either have to put up with stuff or just walk away. It might sound harsh, but it's honestly made my life (and relationships) much easier.

[Krishna]

If I wait to do this in person, it'll be about a month before anything is done about it...since the next 4 weeks are consumed by prior family comittments every time I'll be seeing him. This whole thing just makes me nauseous.

[AshleyJordan]

If I wait to do this in person, it'll be about a month before anything is done about it...since the next 4 weeks are consumed by prior family comittments every time I'll be seeing him. This whole thing just makes me nauseous.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. You won't be able to see him for another month anyway, b/c you guys are both busy until then?

[Krishna]

I'm sorry, I don't understand. You won't be able to see him for another month anyway, b/c you guys are both busy until then?

No, I'll be seeing him, but we'll have one or the other of our families there each time, making it difficult to discuss this privately.

[AshleyJordan]

You can pull him to the side or find an empty room for a quick conversation. I know this is hard but you have to discuss this sooner rather than later. It'll only get worse if you wait, and don't let it fester for an entire month. I'd suggest meeting up before or after the family event and discussing this.

[redav]

More than just disrespecting you & your wishes, his behavior strongly indicates an addiction. He knows you don't like this, you've already gone through the whole mess before, and still he does it. Unless the addiction is resolved, it will always continue to be a problem. Also, if the agreement is that he can view it but not save it, that's like telling an alcoholic that he can drink at parties but nowhere else--he's in a spot where failure is almost certain.

[and1grad]

I think you need to take a really hard look at whether this upcoming fight, and I think we all know it will be a fight, is going to be worth it. IMO, this is a certified loser and I really wonder if this issue is really worth risking your relationship over. A LOT of guys look at porn. Thats not news to anyone. Ask yourself if this is a problem in your relationship or if you're the one creating a problem b/c you struggle so much with handling it? Not trying to be mean but I still think this is more of a you-issue than a disrespect issue.

[AshleyJordan]

I don't think it's that he looks at porn, I think it's that he saves it despite an agreement they had that he wouldn't do so anymore. I agree that most guys look at porn-- but I personally would be pretty taken aback if I found tons of porn saved to a special folder on my SO's PC.

[and1grad]

Tons of anything is never good but this whole saving it or not thing seems like a meaningless nuance, to me. I think, in this case, K's issues with porn are the crux of the problem.

[AshleyJordan]

Well, apparently there was an agreement that her BF wouldn't do this, and now he's broken that agreement. That is more important than the porn, IMO, because it's a larger trust issue.

[and1grad]

I would agree but this doesnt strike me as a trust issue. Its like saying you asked me not to eat your lunch, I ate it, and now we need to discuss the relationship. What strikes me as more important is that there needed to be such an agreement on this issue. Thats why I ask, is this worth the impending fight? If so, have at it.

[redav]

I agree with AJ that Krishna's 'issues' are not the problem. She has every right not to like it and not to have it in the relationship. The fact that many people do a thing is not grounds for accepting that thing. The guy agreed to stop, he got rid of a ton of it to keep the relationship going, so that means he wants to keep the relationship--that's what is more important to him. However, he can't stop his behavior. THAT's a big problem. Substitute anything else for the porn and it is still just as big a problem.

Edit: I don't think 'trust' is the biggest problem.

[AshleyJordan]

What strikes me as more important is that there needed to be such an agreement on this issue. Thats why I ask, is this worth the impending fight? If so, have at it.

Well, I'm assuming that K and her SO agreed before that there needed to be an agreement and that's why there was an agreement. Maybe "fight" is too strong a word but I do think it needs to be acknowledged/discussed. Otherwise I'd consider it to be K's tacit approval of her BF's actions-- sending him the message that he can break their agreements without consulting with her and there's no reprecussions. If they reached an agreement, and he reneged on it w/o consulting her, and now she's hurt, I definitely think that warrents a convo at the very least.

[and1grad]

I think its a little much to start throwing "addiction" around. We're certainly not close enough to the situation to claim that. I'm also not saying whether or not K should accept it. I'm just wondering if its worth the fight. If she feels that it is, then they should have it again.

[AshleyJordan]

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see any mention of addiction. . . .

[redav]

I think its a little much to start throwing "addiction" around. We're certainly not close enough to the situation to claim that. I'm also not saying whether or not K should accept it. I'm just wondering if its worth the fight. If she feels that it is, then they should have it again.
I've known people addicted to porn. It doesn't get the attention of drug use, but it's still a problem, especially to relationships. The signs are there (hording, resistance to giving it up, inability to stop a behavior even though you know it will lead to problems and/or you want to quit), so I will disagree that using the term is out of place. Perhaps it isn't the case, but given the history, there would need to be some balancing evidence that it is not there.

The point is, if that is the problem, then THAT is what needs to be addressed, otherwise the problem will never get resolved. If you never consider to address the possibility of addition--again, if it is the problem--you are guaranteed to continue the cycle.

[Krishna]

I think its a little much to start throwing "addiction" around. We're certainly not close enough to the situation to claim that. I'm also not saying whether or not K should accept it. I'm just wondering if its worth the fight. If she feels that it is, then they should have it again.

And1-In this case, the problem is not going away, which implies that addiction may not be that far off. There's a difference between occasionally viewing a pic/vid, and hording porn. This is the guy who had mags scattered around the entire apartment that I had to step over for two years. The guy who had blonde boob girl on his apartment wall in plain site. The guy who (as of this morning) had no less than 5 separate folders of porn vids and pics saved to his computer and sorted by type...and those are just the ones I stumbled across while looking for my vacation pics- no doubt there's more.

I understand that many guy look at porn. I may not like it, but I understand (to an extent) that they do it. My major issue is that he's compulsively saving it, which makes it seem like it holds major importance to him. He's argued in the past that it shouldn't matter to me that it is there, and that he doesnt look at it- he just downloads it b/c he's bored. To me, those rationalization are a complete load of bulls**t. You dont just say *yawn* I'm bored, I think I'll download some porn, sort it into files, and save it without looking at it ever again. Furthermore, to know how I feel about it and to continue to do it, sends up all sorts of warning flags to me. It makes me very uneasy...

[and1grad]

And1-In this case, the problem is not going away, which implies that addiction may not be that far off. There's a difference between occasionally viewing a pic/vid, and hording porn. This is the guy who had mags scattered around the entire apartment that I had to step over for two years. The guy who had blonde boob girl on his apartment wall in plain site. The guy who (as of this morning) had no less than 5 separate folders of porn vids and pics saved to his computer and sorted by type...and those are just the ones I stumbled across while looking for my vacation pics- no doubt there's more.

I understand that many guy look at porn. I may not like it, but I understand (to an extent) that they do it. My major issue is that he's compulsively saving it, which makes it seem like it holds major importance to him. He's argued in the past that it shouldn't matter to me that it is there, and that he doesnt look at it- he just downloads it b/c he's bored. To me, those rationalization are a complete load of bulls**t. You dont just say *yawn* I'm bored, I think I'll download some porn, sort it into files, and save it without looking at it ever again. Furthermore, to know how I feel about it and to continue to do it, sends up all sorts of warning flags to me. It makes me very uneasy...
Fair enough, K. That DOES sound like a problem to me. Just for the sake of asking, you're sure these are NEW folders right? Might be worth double checking.

[Krishna]

Fair enough, K. That DOES sound like a problem to me. Just for the sake of asking, you're sure these are NEW folders right? Might be worth double checking.

Yeah, I wondered the same thing at first, so when I found them, I went back and looked at the dates the files were DL'd. While some of the things were older, there was a significant amount of material that was added AFTER we had this discussion the first time.:0

[and1grad]

Yeah, I wondered the same thing at first, so when I found them, I went back and looked at the dates the files were DL'd. While some of the things were older, there was a significant amount of material that was added AFTER we had this discussion the first time.:0
Ok. In that case, I do agree that this needs to be discussed and/or fought about. btw, Brett Favre just became the all-time TD leader. I just think that should be mentioned, related or not.

[AshleyJordan]

I'd like to reiterate that you should bring it up sooner rather than later. I know it's difficult, but it will be worse if you let this fester.

[Krishna]

I'd like to reiterate that you should bring it up sooner rather than later. I know it's difficult, but it will be worse if you let this fester.

It's on the agenda. I'll sneak it in sometime this week, hopefully.

[AshleyJordan]

Good luck!

[Krishna]

I'm reservedly (is that a word?) optimistic right now. I talked to him about the issue last night about the issue, and it did not spiral into huge drama. I am cautious about the final outcome. He had a very slick response to my questions about the computer files. He stated that he has been burning it on to CDs to send to a buddy who is serving overseas. No real hesitation in the response what so ever. That may be complete BS (as I'm leaning towards, since he can't remember to tie his own shoes, much less remember to mail things overseas) or it be legit. I wont be able to pass judgement for another few weeks, as the unit his buddy is serving in is due back stateside shortly. If it has not ended at that point, I'll know he's jerking me around. However, in the meantime, he offered to sit down with me and delete everything he had the next time we were at his place- that way I could see that he actually did it (please don't tell me he's just gonna burn it off and hide it all on disks elsewhere- I know that's an option, but I don't want to have that thrown at me just now).

The fact that he offered to delete it immediately suggests one of two things:
1- it doesn't matter to him if he deletes it b/c he can just go out and get more.
2- it doesn't matter to him if he deletes it b/c it really was being sent overseas to said buddy.

So, as I said. I am cautiously hopeful. The positive side was that I didn't even have to ask him to delete it- that solution was offered freely from his end, which at least suggests that he knows this is a problem for me.