Teachers (or Former Teachers)...

[shimma]

Can anyone answer a few questions for me:

1. Is it true that you can substitute SAT scores (I took mine in 1996 as a HS jr) for the PRAXIS test?

2. How many semester hours did getting your teaching cert entail? For those of you who don't use it (ie, do not work in a school teaching kids), do you think it's a waste of time to get one?

ETA:

3. Where'd you go to get your CPR/First Aid certs? You do need those to be a teacher, right?

[texasgirl]

Can anyone answer a few questions for me:

1. Is it true that you can substitute SAT scores (I took mine in 1996 as a HS jr) for the PRAXIS test?

We don't have the PRAXIS test here in Texas; ours is called the TEXES, and there aren't any substitutions for it. You have to pass it with an 80 percent to become certified...

2. How many semester hours did getting your teaching cert entail? For those of you who don't use it (ie, do not work in a school teaching kids), do you think it's a waste of time to get one?

My teaching cert is through an alternative certification program and will end up being about 130 hours and $5,000. To me, it is a much better plan than going the traditional route because it's cheaper and you can start teaching sooner; with traditional programs, you have to student teach for a full semester without pay as part of the curriculum.

ETA:

3. Where'd you go to get your CPR/First Aid certs? You do need those to be a teacher, right?

We don't have to have those certs here.

Of course, this is all Texas info, so it could very well be much different where you live. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

[shimma]

My teaching cert is through an alternative certification program and will end up being about 130 hours and $5,000. To me, it is a much better plan than going the traditional route because it's cheaper and you can start teaching sooner; with traditional programs, you have to student teach for a full semester without pay

A HUNDRED AND THIRTY CREDIT HOURS?!?!? :eek:

Can you pls PM me the details of this alternate cert program?

[wordsmith]

Can anyone answer a few questions for me:

1. Is it true that you can substitute SAT scores (I took mine in 1996 as a HS jr) for the PRAXIS test?

I had to take the PRAXIS test, school requirement for admission into the ed program, and state requirement for certification. It was the easiest standardized test I've ever taken.

2. How many semester hours did getting your teaching cert entail? For those of you who don't use it (ie, do not work in a school teaching kids), do you think it's a waste of time to get one?

We had a different academic calendar than many schools, so we didn't have semester hours the way you're familiar with them. The translation/breakdown was that it was not possible to fit all the required classes in and student teach and graduate on time if you did not declare an ed major by second semester of your sophomore year. I think now, it's even earlier, with increased requirements at the state and federal level.

I just looked up my alma mater...to even be admitted into the program, you must have two prerequisite courses in the ed program, social foundations of ed, and clinical/career orientation to teaching, which is a pre-student teaching type experience where you assist and shadow in a school, to test it out before committing to the curriculum.

I was secondary ed, but I looked up elementary for you, and the curriculum there is:

-All gen eds required for the BA degree

- Two of the following: GEG-101, GEG-102, HIS-130, HIS-140, POL-110, or S/A-111. (Geography, history, poli sci, and sociology/anthropology intro courses)

- MCS-115 and MCS-140 (MCS-142 for math concentration).
(math/comp sci into courses)

- One English course which focuses on composition and writing skill.

- One course in public speaking.

- PSY-100, MUS-107 and MUS-207, ART-248, HES-232, HES-315.
(psych, music, art, health/exercise science courses)

-ALL of the following ed courses, some of which are half or quarter credit:
-CHILDREN’S LITERATURE,
-EDUCATIONAL TECHNOLOGY,
-SCIENCE FOR ELEMENTARY EDUCATORS I,
-SCIENCE FOR ELEMENTARY EDUCATORS II ,
-MIDDLE SCHOOL PHILOSOPHY AND METHODS,
-DEVELOPMENTAL AND EDUCATIONAL PSYCHOLOGY ,
-ELEMENTARY SCIENCE METHODS AND MATERIALS,
-ELEMENTARY MATHEMATICS METHODS AND MATERIALS,
-ELEMENTARY SOCIAL STUDIES METHODS AND MATERIALS,
-ELEMENTARY READING METHODS AND MATERIALS,
-ELEMENTARY INTERDISCIPLINARY MODELS AND PRACTICUM
-METHODS AND MATERIALS IN INCLUSIVE CLASSROOMS
-UNDERSTANDING INDIVIDUAL STUDENT NEEDS
-K-8 ELEMENTARY DIRECTED TEACHING (student teaching, full semester)
-HUMAN RELATIONS IN EDUCATION
-SEMINAR IN ELEMENTARY/SECONDARY CURRICULUM AND INSTRUCTION (capstone course, done concurrently with student teaching)

- Completion of requirements of one concentration area (Communication Arts/Literature, Science, Social Studies, Mathematics) or a major in a foreign language.

-Passing of the Pre-professional Skills Test as required by the state teaching board

- Completion of teaching portfolio and end conference after student teaching.

- Passing scores on the Praxis tests as required by the state teaching board.

In El Ed, this certification program IS your Bachelor's degree. In secondary ed, similar coursework accompanies a major in your discipline area.

As for the waste of time question? I definitely don't think it's something you get "Just to have it," it's a shitload of work (not the most complex work, but a shitload, none the less, and a scheduling nightmare) to just do as a contingency plan. If I'd been El Ed, and done the above curriculum, and then opted not to teach, yes, I'd feel like I'd wasted my time...because it IS your major, you have no other major. With Secondary Ed, I always considered myself foremost an English major, and I always have that whether or not I teach. I DID feel very bitter at the time about all the time ed classes took up that could have been used on more English and theatre classes, though.



ETA:

3. Where'd you go to get your CPR/First Aid certs? You do need those to be a teacher, right?

I got mine as one of my required health/PE classes in my gen eds.

[Krishna]

1. Is it true that you can substitute SAT scores (I took mine in 1996 as a HS jr) for the PRAXIS test?

I don't think so...I certainly wasn't able to.

2. How many semester hours did getting your teaching cert entail? For those of you who don't use it (ie, do not work in a school teaching kids), do you think it's a waste of time to get one?

It took me 185 credits to become certified, though this included my 40 undergrad "gen ed" requirements, and the 40 credits for my major. They "officially" listed 80 credits required for my teaching sequence, but I think that's low because some of the requirements were listed under misleading alternate headings. I'd estimate it at more like 90 when all was said and done.


3. Where'd you go to get your CPR/First Aid certs? You do need those to be a teacher, right?

While not required, it is strongly recommended. Most districts will offer classes once you are already hired, otherwise contact a local community center or something.

[wordsmith]

In any case, the curriculum for a standard ed cert is a TON of courses to juggle, in general.

[shimma]

Holy fark, that;s a lot of work! Thanks for looking that stuff up, Jess!

UMW's website is so vague about their program; all their website has is the stupid app. :razz:

[capella]

You guys are totally going to hate me but... I did alternative certification here in Florida. I didn't pay a dime for it, but it would have cost me $800 if I had worked at a nicer school (read: not Title I, high poverty). I took about 12 ? classes... I wanna say 12, but I don't remember. I don't know what the credit hours would have been, but I'm damn sure it would be less than 185 (!!) credit hours.

Each class was not equivalent to a regular class as some of them had one assignment and one class meeting. Others were more intensive (ESOL much!). I finished it in 6 months, but most people take two years since you're working full time as a teacher while you do the program. I just wanted it over with and it wasn't anything I hadn't already learned on the fly at my job.

I basically was thrown in the classroom with no experience and no training. I survived and I don't know how useful it would have been to spend all that time and money going through a college program to get certified. I don't think it would have changed my feelings on public education or the eventual outcome (read: I would've left teaching for this field no matter what training path I had taken to become certified).

That's why I chose Florida in the first place. You can work here right away with full pay and benefits and get your certification done pretty easily. We have to take teacher certification tests here too, but any dummy with a pulse could pass the tests just fine.

I also took the Praxis when I was in Maryland (because it's required there), but Florida doesn't recognize it at all. :rolleyes: And no, you can't substitute SAT scores for the Praxis.. it's a whole other ball game (it's pedagogy and content, not basic HS level skills).

[dengeist]

Alternate Route is a better deal for career changers. I got five wrong on the whole thing (PRAXIS). The classes here in Jersey cost $1,100 and you have to pay your mentor $500. You didn't have to do all of that when I got in, but that was before NCLB.

It varies from state to state, but I'm sure the guidelines are pretty similar. What makes the deal even sweeter is the Alternate Route classes count towards your master's degree, because they are basically a year's worth of grad school classes. :D

[EmberMae]

Well there are two tests you must take in Texas to become a teacher. First is the THEA (used to be TASP). You have to take this to get into a teacher education program. You also have to take it to get into any public university, so most people already take it. This is a test which you can substitute SAT scores for, if they are no more than 5 years old. Honestly, yours are probably to old to count for anything.

Then there is the TEXES which is the actual teacher certification test and is very easy. Similar to PRAXIS. Here there is no substitute

My post baccalaureate certification was 24 credit hours, broke down as follows:

4 classes (12 hours) education classes (these were online)
1 class (6 hours) student teaching or "teaching internship" (if you can get hired w/o being fully certified.
2 classes (4 hours) Reading education classes. This was only for teachers wishing to be certified in English Language Arts and Reading. For English Language Arts my bachelor's degree counted but for the reading I had to take extra coursework. Most subject areas you only had to take 18 hours total.

It took me approximately 1 calendar year to complete all of this. The total cost was somewhere between $3,000 - $4,000 at a public university. Can't remember exactly, but we had to pay full grad school tuition. This was for secondary certification, for elementary or early childhood you probably have to take more education classes and can't rely as much on your bachelor's degree for prerequisites.

Yes it was a waste of time and money for me since I only taught for half a year. I guess there was some interesting information in some of the classes.

I did not have to get any kind of CPR or First Aid credentials.

[wordsmith]

Right, important to point out that the info I posted was obviously NOT from an alt. cert. program, but a 30K a year private liberal arts college's standard full-time undergrad curriculum. And, mainly, I posted it for the benefit of people who think that teacher training is "easy."

Also, for me, an alternate certification program where you are thrown into a classroom with no student teaching, etc. would have been a disaster, because it was THROUGH my student teaching that I learned that I categorically do NOT want to be a classroom instructor. Thank God I figured that out while still a student!

[shimma]

I called the public school district in my county this AM, and here is what they said:

Here's the sad thing in VA... you don't even need an associate's degree to sub, first off. Or a criminal background check. Or a drug test. Just a TB test that has to come back negative.

Second, if you want to teach math (when I explained I was a "Career Changer" from finance they practically salivated) you don't even need a teaching certificate :eek: :rolleyes: - if you want one though, you can just do the Career Changer program for 5 mos, and bam, certified and looking for a job.

[wordsmith]

There are a lot of states where subbing has minimal requirements. Illinois is not one of them...you do have to have a 4-year degree to substitute teach. But it doesn't have to be a degree in education. Actually, subbing is a pretty good deal, or would be if it came with benefits, which it doesn't, here.

Also, there are quite a few programs in areas with teaching shortages where they have career change type programs that allow various professionals to segue into teaching with very minimal specific training, really...esp. in shortage subjects, like science, math, comp sci. I have mixed feelings. Having a professional skill doesn't necessarily translate to being talented at imparting your knowledge successfully to students. But shortages cause desperation.

[GoogleGirl]

I've been soul/career searching....away from teaching. Everyone is talking about getting into the teaching field. After one traumatic semester, I am trying to find something to stay out of teaching.

[shimma]

Everyone is talking about getting into the teaching field.

You make it sound like some fugtastic short lived trend, like the handkercheif-shirts.

[GoogleGirl]

You make it sound like some fugtastic short lived trend, like the handkercheif-shirts.

I'm not throwing in the towel. Taking a break. And plus, it's hard to find a job where I am right now. But lemme ask this...have you been in the classroom for an extended period? until you've been there, I don't even want to hear it.

[dengeist]

I called the public school district in my county this AM, and here is what they said:

Here's the sad thing in VA... you don't even need an associate's degree to sub, first off. Or a criminal background check. Or a drug test. Just a TB test that has to come back negative.

Second, if you want to teach math (when I explained I was a "Career Changer" from finance they practically salivated) you don't even need a teaching certificate :eek: :rolleyes: - if you want one though, you can just do the Career Changer program for 5 mos, and bam, certified and looking for a job.

Yeah, that sounds about right. You're in the right field to transition to one of the high demand teaching positions (Math & Science). There's a reason they are "high demand" though.

[wordsmith]

I've been soul/career searching....away from teaching. Everyone is talking about getting into the teaching field. After one traumatic semester, I am trying to find something to stay out of teaching.

I, too, went the opposite route...trained for it, and then determined that I did NOT wanna do it as a career. It is definitely a job that comes with a laundry list of difficulties, that, for me, outnumbered the things I liked about it (even though those things that I liked, I REALLY liked).

[capella]

It is definitely a job that comes with a laundry list of difficulties, that, for me, outnumbered the things I liked about it (even though those things that I liked, I REALLY liked).
That laundry list is what drove me out. It took me three years to decide, but I feel like I gave it my best shot. I may go back to the classroom some day, but I doubt it would be regular public education. I would dearly love to get into the Florida Virtual School. It's HS online. I have a classmate who works there and I'm trying to get in as an adjunct... you assist the main teacher with grading and planning for around 15 hours a week, work from home and make about $600 a month. Freakin' awesome! And I could go full time eventually and teach from home! Each FT teacher gets two assistants. TWO assistants. Craziness.

And to back up Kellie's sentiment, it is almost like every "career changer" is saying, "Gee, I hate my corporate job and it's soooo lifesucking so I think I'll do that teacher thing. It's so rewarding and noble. Tee Hee!" Note that I'm NOT saying you're being that flippant. It's just that I've seen that time and again and those people run off before the year is over. It's not a field to enter into lightly. And it's not for everyone.

[shimma]

Yeah, that sounds about right. You're in the right field to transition to one of the high demand teaching positions (Math & Science). There's a reason they are "high demand" though.

That sounds about right about the lax teacher requirements?!? :eek: Cause after that convo, part of me was like FUCK IT, I'll stay at my soul-sucking corporate job so I can afford to send my kids to private school, so they can have teachers who have at least a GED.

What, in your opinion, is the reason they're high demand (besides the pay sucking compared to other things you could do)?

[shimma]

And to back up Kellie's sentiment, it is almost like every "career changer" is saying, "Gee, I hate my corporate job and it's soooo lifesucking so I think I'll do that teacher thing. It's so rewarding and noble. Tee Hee!"

"Rewarding" isn't exactly how I envision giving algebra homework to a bunch of angsty adolescents who hate my guts because I'm keeping them from their Playstations ... ;) :evil:

[capella]

"Rewarding" isn't exactly how I envision giving algebra homework to a bunch of angsty adolescents who hate my guts because I'm keeping them from their Playstations ... ;) :evil:
Nor was it how I'd describe giving essay assignments to a bunch of angsty teenagers who hate my guts because I'm keeping them from their Playstations... :p

And YES teacher requirements can be pretty lax depending on what area of the country you're in and what subject you plan to teach. What's causing that? Well, it seems to me that mostly it is caused by high turnover and crappy conditions that drive newbies out (um, like myself for example). It's a hard, unappreciated, low pay, high stress, many hours, no respect kind of job. Period. The whole education system is fucked up and there's no pretty way to fix it. Merit pay isn't going to fix it. Over testing isn't going to fix it. Boy, I could really get up on my soapbox right about now.... :evil:

[dengeist]

That sounds about right about the lax teacher requirements?!? :eek: Cause after that convo, part of me was like FUCK IT, I'll stay at my soul-sucking corporate job so I can afford to send my kids to private school, so they can have teachers who have at least a GED.

What, in your opinion, is the reason they're high demand (besides the pay sucking compared to other things you could do)?

WHAAAAA?

Hmmm, I think you woefully misinterpreted what I said. Nowhere in this country does a public school teaching job have a minimum requirement of a GED, not even in podunk Alabama. Most states require you to get a master's degree in an educational field even if you already have a master's degree in another field. Private school actually has more lax requirements than public school by far. So good luck with the private school thing for your kids.

It's one thing to be knowledgeable in a field, it's another thing to be a true educator.

The reason Math and Science have a higher turnover is because those are the two subjects kids tend to care the least about but at the same time the most pressure is on the teacher. AND YES IT IS DIFFICULT TO FIND QUALIFIED PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DEAL WITH KIDS!

Just because you are certified does not mean you can get a job. The requirements might be "lax" by your standards. But they are just the tip of the iceburg in the education field.

[shimma]

WHAAAAA?

Hmmm, I think you woefully misinterpreted what I said. Nowhere in this country does a public school teaching job have a minimum requirement of a GED, not even in podunk Alabama. Most states require you to get a master's degree in an educational field even if you already have a master's degree in another field. Private school actually has more lax requirements than public school by far. So good luck with the private school thing for your kids..

I think I did. You prob meant the math/science teacher shortage was normal, I thought you meant the lax teacher requirements were normal.

I was exaggerating about the GED, but you can indeed sub with just a HS diploma here, which I thought was... interesting. And they give you 3 years to get your teaching cert here if you want to teach math/science, which I also found... interesting. I mean, yeah, I'm good with kids and good with math. But it's one thing to keep an accounting system running smoothly or keep 2-3 kids lin line; quite another to keep 30 kids in line and teach them the fundamentals of math/accounting. And IMO, they shouldn't be putting teachers in classrooms who haven't taken at least some educational theory or child psych classes. The school district in my town just made it sound like they felt the same, but would look the other way. Which sucks.

[wordsmith]

He DID mean that math/science teacher shortages are normal. So are business, comp sci/tech, and special education.

One reason he DIDN'T note as contributing to shortages in these areas, which is equally true and valid is that if you have a degree in math or a hard science or business or info tech, there are quite a few higher paying careers open to you that are far better compensated than teaching. Those with degrees in subjects that fall under humanities, however, often gravitate to teaching, because it pays as well as many other jobs utilizing those degrees. Better, in some cases. As a starting high school English teacher, even where I live, the base salary would be about 6K more than what I started with as a fledgling journalist.

There's absolutely no pay incentive, for the most part, for people with higher-earning potential degrees to go into something that's got such poor to mediocre compensation, at least starting out, as teaching. If you've got a degree that will earn you a LOT more in another field, you would likely not pick teaching unless you are doing it for purely altruistic reasons.

Special education, the reason for the shortages lies in the fact that it's easily the most exhausting and emotionally demanding subsection of public ed. The burnout rate is at least twice what it is on average for mainstream classroom teaching.

[wordsmith]

I mean, yeah, I'm good with kids and good with math. But it's one thing to keep an accounting system running smoothly or keep 2-3 kids lin line; quite another to keep 30 kids in line and teach them the fundamentals of math/accounting.

Very key. I was a case in point. I LOVE literature and writing, and I LOVE working with youth. I thought that it naturally followed that I would LOVE teaching youth about literature and writing. Turns out, I don't. At least not in a traditional classroom setting. Being great with your subject and great with kids is an excellent start to pursuing a career in teaching. But it's true that even so, it's still not necessarily a good fit for all.

And IMO, they shouldn't be putting teachers in classrooms who haven't taken at least some educational theory or child psych classes.

I agree. Even people who are naturals at interacting with children benefit from studying methodology, child and adolescent psych, and the like. And, perhaps most importantly, as much prior practice as possible in classroom behavioral management, since that's where 99% of young teachers fail, and/or are weakest, because it's arguably the hardest thing to learn and challenging to hone. And it's the one component that will make or break you as a teacher, even if you are great with kids individually, or great at establishing rapport, know your content area up and down, and how to impart it well. If you can't get to any of the busines of teaching because you can't control your class, you're f*cked.

The school district in my town just made it sound like they felt the same, but would look the other way. Which sucks.

It sucks worse to not be able to fill your staff roster any other way, and know that you have no real choice but to make do, when school districts are supposed to, ideally, employ only the most qualified.

[dengeist]

See, that's the thing about subbing though and education in general. It varies widely from state to state what the requirements are, what the pay is, etc. Here in NJ, you have to have 60 college credits to sub and in most districts you have to go through an orientation program just to substitute. Even with that, we still have a shortage of subs during the year.

Yes, I did mean the math/science teacher shortage was normal and that's a $$$ issue. Like you said, most people that have an advanced math or science degree can make tens of thousands of dollars more and probably be less stressed out in the process.

*shrug*

It's not a job with a whole lot of external rewards. You can do alright financially, but that is a very subjective term. Especially when some people complain about making $50,000.

[wordsmith]

In all honesty, it seems to me that it's not strictly the monetary compensation that sticks in educators' craws. It's the fact that on top of the poor to lower average pay, they're overall fairly underappreciated as professionals (often to the point of downright disrespect and contempt. Combine the two, stir, and viola, recipe for bitterness cocktail.

[wordsmith]

Even with that, we still have a shortage of subs during the year.

It's contract pay with no benefits, probably? That's what it is here. Which is exactly why there are sub shortages. You can get a call to work literally every day in my district if you are on the sub list, but nobody's willing to work every day for no benefits. The only people who really can be counted on to sub regularly are those who are on a spouse's insurance.

Yes, I did mean the math/science teacher shortage was normal and that's a $$$ issue. Like you said, most people that have an advanced math or science degree can make tens of thousands of dollars more and probably be less stressed out in the process.

Pretty much. When you're getting a business degree or one in the hard sciences, and get to talking about majors, I'm willing to bet you don't hear, "What are you gonna do with that? Teach?" nearly as much as those getting degrees in the humanities/arts do. Because the assumption isn't that teacher pay is the most you're gonna be able to get, like the English, history, music, etc. experience.

[dengeist]

In all honesty, it seems to me that it's not strictly the monetary compensation that sticks in educators' craws. It's the fact that on top of the poor to lower average pay, they're overall fairly underappreciated as professionals (often to the point of downright disrespect and contempt. Combine the two, stir, and viola, recipe for bitterness cocktail.

Exactly. In my district teachers make due just fine: new luxury cars, $300,000 condos, etc.

The thing is in a social setting, where people are networking, nobody wants to network with a teacher. You're hit with "That's---uh---very noble. Very noble. I couldn't do it." or (my favorite) *sad, patronizing look* "That's a tough job." ad naseum. Can't do it for the prestige, because there isn't much that comes with the title.

[wordsmith]

As you know, the past several years' worth of teacher's strikes in my district have been highly emotional, and rooted in an intense feeling of being disrespected. The teachers aren't paid especially poorly (by teaching standards), especially for a small rural district, to be honest...their standard of living is really on par, if not slightly higher, than the rest of a rural farming/industrial community, which makes the context a bit different than teachers who teach in cities full of white collar professionals in high power industries. Teaching is fairly respectable in a community like this, paywise. The strikes, however, had to do with the benefits end of contract negotiations, insurance rates went up, so teachers had to pay more out of pocket...and this was seen as an EXTREME insult, slap in the face, and touted as a blatant show of disrespect toward the profession.

[capella]

In all honesty, it seems to me that it's not strictly the monetary compensation that sticks in educators' craws. It's the fact that on top of the poor to lower average pay, they're overall fairly underappreciated as professionals (often to the point of downright disrespect and contempt. Combine the two, stir, and viola, recipe for bitterness cocktail.
*raises hand* Absolutely. It's the feeling completely disrespected by all kinds of groups: parents, students, administrators, the general public... that really burned my buns. It's a hard frickin' job to do. And then add the low pay into the equation... It doesn't take you too long to be sipping on that bitterness cocktail.... for me, it took exactly 3 years.

And the standards for teachers are ridiculously lax in some parts of the country... for all subjects not just for the hard-to-fill, "I can get a better paying and less stressful job with my degree" fields. This worked to my advantage when I wanted to go into teaching since I had no education background, just a natural affinity for kids and for writing.

But it's also a huge negative in terms of the quality of education overall and it became quite a sticking point for me when dealing with idiot co-workers. They make you look bad (and I would include some regular education majors in that statement, too). I don't think they should kick alternative certification to the curb, but this problem wouldn't exist if teaching was actually so noble, rewarding, fulfilling and a cushy gig with all that time off to boot. :rolleyes: There should be higher standards though.

Personally, I think there are precious few people who can teach and do it right regardless of the route to teacher certification. There are precious few who care enough to want to do it right despite all the hand-tying and bullshit going on. I couldn't take it anymore.

[dengeist]

As you know, the past several years' worth of teacher's strikes in my district have been highly emotional, and rooted in an intense feeling of being disrespected. The teachers aren't paid especially poorly (by teaching standards), especially for a small rural district, to be honest...their standard of living is really on par, if not slightly higher, than the rest of a rural farming/industrial community, which makes the context a bit different than teachers who teach in cities full of white collar professionals in high power industries. Teaching is fairly respectable in a community like this, paywise. The strikes, however, had to do with the benefits end of contract negotiations, insurance rates went up, so teachers had to pay more out of pocket...and this was seen as an EXTREME insult, slap in the face, and touted as a blatant show of disrespect toward the profession.

It's a fairly respected profession within the black/latino community too. It's when you step out of those areas you experience the most patronization.

Benefits have been a hotly contested contract point all over the country. We went without a contract for a year and had a 14,000 strong rally in front of the state legislature because of it. The state (which is bankrupt) wanted us to pay more into our benefits when they didn't put their promised percentage in for eight years. It's one of the only positives to the job and when that gets taken away, it will be a fully intrinsic profession.

That's part of the politics of teaching and why so many teachers are disgruntled. More is being asked of us (rightfully so) meanwhile we are getting less and less, making it work and still catching hell for it.

This past year, I got a very difficult class, two sections actually. Out of those fifty some odd kids, only two failed the state test in my two sections, in Language Arts. Me and my partner, who teaches math and science basically single-handedly saved the school from being put into the "School in Need of Improvement" category. With outrageously high test scores(82% passing rate), we didn't get an award, a pat on the back, no applause....nothing. Our only reward will be to get a more difficult class next year. :mad:

This is a huge part of why, when I get that call to report to the fire academy in the near future, I'm out.

[capella]

This past year, I got a very difficult class, two sections actually. Out of those fifty some odd kids, only two failed the state test in my two sections, in Language Arts. Me and my partner, who teaches math and science basically single-handedly saved the school from being put into the "School in Need of Improvement" category. With outrageously high test scores(82% passing rate), we didn't get an award, a pat on the back, no applause....nothing. Our only reward will be to get a more difficult class next year. :mad:

This is a huge part of why, when I get that call to report to the fire academy in the near future, I'm out.
I can relate to that. With my thirdies, 83% of my class passed the state reading test (the grade level average was 70%) and 77% passed the math (grade level average was 69%). Do you think I would've been recognized for that? Nope. Not even a little.

The system needs to be redesigned to include more support for new teachers, room to grow for experienced teachers and a hell of a lot more recognition for how complex and skilled teaching really is.

I also think there needs to be a little more hierarchy involved between teacher and administrator. We need novice teachers to be under the guidance of an experienced teacher (a good experienced teacher, too, not just some dinosaur who's lasted purely because of stubborn determination to retire with a pension).

We need to have an active manager of teachers, someone who can really provide support and supervise what goes on in classes. Maybe a department chair or team leader who can take care of support, paperwork, guide new teachers, develop curriculum, and generally pay attention to what's going on (more than a principal sitting in on 30 minutes of class one day out of 180+). This person would have that BE his or her job, not run a class as well. Like an actual support person or coach who would have the power to review teacher quality and make hiring/firing decisions, too. That brings me to another point. We need to be able to fire crappy teachers, even ones with tenure. I get why tenure exists, but it has a huge negative as well.

But all of that depends on restructuring education and actually having the resources to attract, support and pay for the changes. That's not happening when they can barely keep a warm body in the room in parts of the country.

[wordsmith]

Our local elementary district was put under school improvement under NCLB, due to special needs' children's reading scores. What? The kid who is pulled in a wagon due to his cerebral palsy, and can only communicate by blinking can't read at grade level? Y'don't say.

[dengeist]

Our local elementary district was put under school improvement under NCLB, due to special needs' children's reading scores. What? The kid who is pulled in a wagon due to his cerebral palsy, and can only communicate by blinking can't read at grade level? Y'don't say.

Yes, but he should be reading at grade level! :evil:

My school has the same problem coupled with ELL kids who probably wouldn't be in their countries equivalent of the X grade in their country. I had a girl from Equador that cried everyday for the first month and a half because we didn't have "play time", but her mother swore up and down she was in the 5th grade in Equador(with no records and the girl was still 9 in June). She was exempt from LA, but she failed math miserably. That was coupled with the girl that had several disorders, who I desprerately tried to get put in special ed, who was actually classified, then declassified because of her previous year's test scores, which she readily admitted she guessed on. She was one of my two that was not proficient.....:mad:

[wordsmith]

Yes, but he should be reading at grade level! :evil:

My school has the same problem coupled with ELL

Same, but the kids with the language barriers (which make up a monstrous proportion of the district, big migrant farming area) are actually squeaking in under the wire, where as the kids in special education are largely not, through no fault of their own or the professionals who work with them (of which my mom is one).