So My Brother's Coming Home! Fatted calf, anyone? (RANT)

[Rusalka]

:mad: This weekend my brother is going to visit my mother, and I'm going too. Great!!!!

The problem is that I'm so angry and upset with him because he has been acting like he wants to break off contact with our family, and I don't understand why. He only agreed to go home this weekend because our mother paid his train fare.

I feel he has been behaving badly - or strangely - for a long time, in that he makes no effort to contact me, my mother, or anyone else in the family, hardly returns our calls / emails / letters, and usually ignores birthdays.

Some background info:

1. I have not seen my brother in 18 MONTHS, although he lives only 2 1/2 hours from our mother (who I visit every 2 months or so) and 3 hours from me. I have invited him to come over plenty of times, but he ignores me. He has never invited me to his place. It seems that he makes no effort at all.

2. Our mother lives alone (dad died years ago) and contacts my bro often. The thing is, he doesn't ever contact her, or visit her, of his own free will, except when he wants something or his trip is paid for.

3. I don't think anyone in the family ever did anything that really hurt him. As kids, we had spats, but nothing that bad. So I can't see any specific reason why he'd want to cut me off! If we said something to hurt him, then I'd want to apologise and try to put things right, if he would only talk to me about it.

4. A few times he has just disappeared - i.e. did not contact anyone in the family for months at a time, although we left numerous messages, sent emails etc, just to ask if he was ok. This happened when he was working abroad for a year - for months, we heard nothing. My mother, who can be panicky and overprotective, was in a very bad state, and it was me who had to take care of her and comfort her, while trying to track him down because she cried all the time and said she could not cope.

5. Things came to a head last Christmas. He informed us 2 days before that he would not be coming home and that we wouldn't see him, because he 'wanted to spend it with his girlfriend' (who we had heard of, but never met. From what I can see on Facebook, they have now split up). So we got him gifts, but he sent us nothing - no gifts or cards, and he didn't call or email, although he has 2 phones and Internet access at his house. - I cried for days because I couldn't believe he would treat us this way. And I was also pissed that I am the one who has to visit our mother and be the good daughter, while he is off enjoying himself and making no effort to do anything. When our mother moved house, I was the one who helped her to pack. And I often have really depressing thoughts about me being the only person who will take care of things when our mother gets too old to look after herself, or when she passes on and someone has to clear out the house, etc. :(

I have talked to him about his behaviour. After Christmas I called him and - this may have not been the best way, but I couldn't help it - I was ruder to him than I've ever been to anyone. I told him that he should treat me as a brother should treat a sister. I said he should show more respect to his family. And I made him promise to phone our mother and send her a card and gift for her 60th birthday last February. Well, he phoned her, but there was no card or gift. I didn't know whether to be grateful, frustrated, or mad :mad:

So, the bottom line is that iI feel he should show more respect to our family and just put in some extra effort to stay in touch. However, after talking to friends and coworkers about this, it sounds like a lot of brothers - many men, in fact - sometimes behave in a similar way. I have such confused feelings. On the one hand I'm excited and want to see him because I miss him, but on the other hand I am so angry that I'm afraid I'll spend the weekend sniping at him and making things worse.

My question is: am I being too harsh on him? Is there anything I can do to alter the situtation? I'd especially appreciate guys' perspectives on this.

[Rusalka]

So my post was viewed 54 times already and nobody answered yet (except for 1 person who sent me a nice PM) ...

I may have come across as bitter in my post, but I really would like some feedback, even if I get told I'm being unreasonable. thanks :0

[Bocheezu]

I was going to post yesterday, but it really wasn't very insightful and I ended up shitcanning it. The basic premise was to just not worry about it so much. Pretend the guy doesn't exist. Obviously, if you'd yelled at the guy already and he still doesn't care, yelling at him more isn't suddenly going to change anything.

My dad died too, and my sister lives way out in Massachusetts, so I was the only one around to help mom. Still am. You can't be bitter about these things.

[wordsmith]

One of my brothers did a similar distancing thing when he left home. Which might be unnoticeable in some families, but in a very close-knit one like ours, was an abrupt change. He and I are the least close of all my my siblings, so it didn't personally wound me so much when he more or less drastically cut off his family, but it seriously hurt my mom, and I have a certain degree of anger toward him due to that insensitivity.

But the truth is, you can't force somebody to be more "present," and you wouldn't want to if you could, because you'd want closeness to be mutual and desired, not an obligation. Even when my brother does, on rare occasions, come around, it's obvious that he's "putting the time" in and spends most of his limited time around the fam being critical of and condescending toward everyone, because he's defensive about not being around, and being pissy is how that comes out. Interestingly, he also gets touchy about "not being a part of things" when we are all together, as if he's in some way mad at us that we've all continued life and such even though he chooses not to be a part of it. Can't have it both ways, though, bro. If you wanna feel in the loop, come around.

We've had to more or less come to terms with the reality that you can't ever really know why somebody pulls up stakes and doesn't look back, and you can't ever know why it's suddenly not important to some to maintain ties. I have my thoughts on it, mostly centering around the fact that his wife's family is 15 minutes away from them and has become his primary family, which is naturally a source of pain for my mom.

Fortunately, in our case, my brother doesn't do the thing (usually) where he comes around when needing something (although he has been known to assume that my parents will drive 2 hours to dogsit for him, or help with something at his house, I think they're going there to help pull out a fence this weekend). But writing your family off except when you need a favor from them is beyond asinine.

[Rusalka]

I was going to post yesterday, but it really wasn't very insightful and I ended up shitcanning it. The basic premise was to just not worry about it so much. Pretend the guy doesn't exist. Obviously, if you'd yelled at the guy already and he still doesn't care, yelling at him more isn't suddenly going to change anything.

My dad died too, and my sister lives way out in Massachusetts, so I was the only one around to help mom. Still am. You can't be bitter about these things.

Thanks for posting. I think it's true that I should not worry about it so much, and I really don't worry too much about it usually, but I know I'll see my bro this weekend and I'm feeling stressed already. I take your point about yelling being ineffective. Trouble is, it seems that nothing else is!

I can't pretend he doesn't exist, as I want to be loyal to my family. I think that copying his behaviour to make a point is probably not be the best way to deal with this situation.

Sorry to hear about your dad. That's tough. Hope things are going ok for you and your mom and sis.

[Rusalka]

One of my brothers did a similar distancing thing when he left home. Which might be unnoticeable in some families, but in a very close-knit one like ours, was an abrupt change. He and I are the least close of all my my siblings, so it didn't personally wound me so much when he more or less drastically cut off his family, but it seriously hurt my mom, and I have a certain degree of anger toward him due to that insensitivity.

Thanks for posting, Wordsmith. Yes, my bro hurting my mum is one of the worst aspects of it. My mum did her best, and like all parents she made a few mistakes, but she does not deserve to be cut off with no explanation.

But the truth is, you can't force somebody to be more "present," and you wouldn't want to if you could, because you'd want closeness to be mutual and desired, not an obligation.

Very true.

We've had to more or less come to terms with the reality that you can't ever really know why somebody pulls up stakes and doesn't look back, and you can't ever know why it's suddenly not important to some to maintain ties.

True too. Some people just don't seem to care so much about maintaining relationships, due to their personality or character. My brother, like some of my other relatives, can be kind of solitary sometimes and doesn't really make small talk. He can be disorganised too, which means he's not so good at planning meetings, mailing birthday cards and so on.

This subject has been a source of hurt to me in the past as well, when I lost touch with friends. Out of sight, out of mind, for some people. I guess I should learn to accept that, but it's hard.

Siblings, eh? Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

[badabing]

That's so odd that your brother would do that, for no reason it seems. Sometimes people just need to get away from for a while, to really find themselves. It is a shamed that he doesn't feel he can do that w your family around him. I would confront him and ask him whats up.

[vivo]

Do a lot of brothers really behave this way? This could be me to a certain degree though my sister is 12 yrs older than me.

[wordsmith]

I'm sure there's a reason, you just may not know what it is. When somebody abruptly cuts off fam, there's always a reason.

For my brother I think it was that a surrogate family closer by gradually just took the place of fam over time. Dissapointing.

[J-girl]

Maybe he is just being a guy?? Just be normal when he is around make the most of it. Talk about the times when you guys were kids that will make him all warm and fuzzy about being with family,

[wordsmith]

Is there a possibility that he's depressed? Cutting off contact with loved ones and friends for seemingly no outward reason is often a sign of depression.

[shorty]

How close was/is your family? My family is kind of like that. In my family, I'm probably the one who's most distant. It's because I really don't feel close to anyone in my family (except my sister, I guess, but we're not even that close anymore). When I was growing up, I was basically just there and my mother never really spent time with me (my father was too busy working). The neglect may be a middle child thing in my case. But basically, I don't really feel any connection to my family.

I'm not totally cut off from them because I'd feel guilty and because then I really wouldn't have anyone else (see my post about not having friends... which is kinda related to how I was raised, but that's for a different post, I guess). I realize my parents did what they thought was best, but that doesn't change everything that happened (or didn't happen) over the past 23 years.

I don't think it has anything to do with being a guy though. My brother isn't really affectionate or anything, but he's the kind of guy who wouldn't ditch our family (but that might have something to do with him being the oldest and the only son).

Is there a possibility that he's depressed? Cutting off contact with loved ones and friends for seemingly no outward reason is often a sign of depression.

I agree that it could be depression. I don't know what to say if that's the case.

[JBoss]

It sounds to me that he is living his life for himself now. Seems not to really be so worried about the family as the family members are all grown and should be able to take care of themselves. Your brother seems alot like me so maybe that's why i relate more with him then you. I have not seen most of my family (except my mother) in around 6 years, and i don't really care too honestly. In life, things come up, priorities change, as do people. I don't really see why you are so hurt by his actions, they don't seem that bad to me?!?! Good luck w/ that situation though.

[J-girl]

It sounds to me that he is living his life for himself now. Seems not to really be so worried about the family as the family members are all grown and should be able to take care of themselves. Your brother seems alot like me so maybe that's why i relate more with him then you. I have not seen most of my family (except my mother) in around 6 years, and i don't really care too honestly. In life, things come up, priorities change, as do people. I don't really see why you are so hurt by his actions, they don't seem that bad to me?!?! Good luck w/ that situation though.
If your spouse died and you were living by yourself wouldnt it be nice to hear from your kids once in a month or so to check on if you are dead or alive atleast. I dont understand why that would be so hard?

[wordsmith]

It sounds to me that he is living his life for himself now. Seems not to really be so worried about the family as the family members are all grown and should be able to take care of themselves. Your brother seems alot like me so maybe that's why i relate more with him then you. I have not seen most of my family (except my mother) in around 6 years, and i don't really care too honestly. In life, things come up, priorities change, as do people. I don't really see why you are so hurt by his actions, they don't seem that bad to me?!?! Good luck w/ that situation though.

It's not really a matter of taking care of themselves or not, or being "grown up," though. Speaking from the perspective of someone from a close-knit family that is assuredly affected when somebody randomly takes a powder, it's a matter of the importance of family connections and showing interest in your family members and their lives. If you don't show an interest, and avoid your family in such a way that it disallows them from knowing about your life in order to show an interest, it's bound to be painful. It's about sharing lives, which is what families, if they are healthy, strong families, do.

Priorities do change...but your family should never, unless there is something very negative, like abuse or neglect, going on, go from being a priority to just not being a priority. IMO, family is a nonnegotiable priority. And if I become no longer a priorty to a family member, yeah, I am going to think less of them and their values.

[JBoss]

If your spouse died and you were living by yourself wouldnt it be nice to hear from your kids once in a month or so to check on if you are dead or alive atleast. I dont understand why that would be so hard?
This may sound harsh, but death happens, you embrace it, deal with it, and move on. I have lost two family members, and 4 good, good friends in the last 3 months. I have one friend in the ICU on life support right now. Maybe im hardened, i don't know. It’s not “hard” to check in on someone,but as the OP stated, mom calls the brother quite often, so im sure he know’s she isn’t dead. Im sure it would be "nice" to hear from your kids, but if it were me, i wouldnt be upset with them if i didnt hear from them, but that is probably becuase im the same way.

[wordsmith]

It all lies in expectations...if you didn't give a rat's ass about hearing from your kids, about having strong family ties, it's unsurprising if you don't hear from them. They were more than likely raised in such a way that it was evident that it didn't matter much to anybody whether or not people remain connected.

However, if you come from a family where family is valued, and connection is important, different ballgame entirely.

[Rusalka]

This may sound harsh, but death happens, you embrace it, deal with it, and move on. I have lost two family members, and 4 good, good friends in the last 3 months. I have one friend in the ICU on life support right now. Maybe im hardened, i don't know. It’s not “hard” to check in on someone,but as the OP stated, mom calls the brother quite often, so im sure he know’s she isn’t dead. Im sure it would be "nice" to hear from your kids, but if it were me, i wouldnt be upset with them if i didnt hear from them, but that is probably becuase im the same way.


Really sorry to hear about your recent losses, JBoss. I hope your friend pulls through. It sounds like you deal with things quite well, and that you don't really need support from your family that others in your situation might need (I don't know anything really about your situation, so please don't be upset if I've got this wrong).

I can kind of appreciate that people become detached from their families, if they have their own lives going on, they live far away, or they never 'meshed' that well with parents or siblings in the first place. However, I personally feel it's a real shame if one doesn't keep in touch with family members who brought you up, shared good times with you, helped you out etc etc. I think it's kind of rude if you don't, to be honest. but i don't want to judge anyone on here if they have family relationships that aren't that close. I just think it's common decency to show respect and take an interest in one's folks from time to time.


Thanks to everyone for your advice! It's now Saturday and my mother and I went to the station to meet my bro, then looked around the shops for an hour, had lunch, and are now hanging out at home. It's going ok so far actually. Brother seems very calm (he always was a calm person) and doesn't participate that much in the chit-chat (he's never been a big talker). It seems like he's the same person I used to know, albeit one that's hard to get to know! I'm trying hard to get him involved in the conversation, use positive body language, show interest in what he says, etc. I think it's important to do something fun together, so I'm going to try to have fun with him, maybe suggest playing cards or ping-pong or do something he really likes.

I think tomorrow I'll bring up the subject tomorrow of him being lax about staying in touch. I'll say how much I enjoyed seeing him this weekend, and tell him I miss him when he's not around, and suggest that we stay in touch better. And,as J-girl says, I'll try to remind him of some good times we had. I suspect it won't work, but it's worth a try!

What's slightly weird and unfamiliar here - in terms of me saying anything about how I feel - is that, as a family, we do not deal with emotions and problems at all well. We are not good at talking about emotions, much less analysing them. So, I had to learn to do that after I left home. My mum's kind of emotionally immature in some ways, and not the kind of person who can ask for help easily, or offer help herself. I feel that many of my issues with self-esteem and depression stem from my relationship with her. I can't discuss my feelings with her because I don't see the point in upsetting her and highlighting her inadequacies, as she really did a good job of being a mother in many ways. It would be a real slap in the face for her if i implied that that my issues were her fault. Maybe my bro feels the same?

I do suspect that my brother might have similar issues. (IF things go well, I might even ask him!) After I left home, our mother relied on him a lot for support, to the point at which it seemed like he filled the role of my dad a bit too eerily for my liking. I don't think he wanted this to happen, but he's kind of passive and doesn't stand up to her, or to many people. So it wouldn't be surprising if he wanted to break off contact for a while, if he found our mother a bit suffocating. - this is all conjecture though on my part. As he doesn't discuss emotions, it might be hard to find out his side of it.

I do think it's possible he may have been depressed in the past. he seems ok now though - has a job he quite likes, plays in a couple of local bands, and is planning to move to a new city with a friend. It would be perfectly logical, though, if he had to go somewhere other than the family to work through some issues, as I felt that getting my family involved in my issues was never going to be an option.

I also think there's some truth for my brother in what Wordsmith says: his friends, and his 2 ex-girlfs, took the place of our family and became his surrogate family, in a sense.

The bottom line is that he and I have always been very different in interests, outlook, personality, most things really. So if we have different priorities regarding family, that shouldn't really be too much of an unpleasant surprise. Disappointing, though.

[mahlerssecond]

My older brother became distant from the family for 15 years after he left. He made some mistakes during that time. I think he was also trying to find a life for himself. I come from a close knit family and know how much it hurts when someone doesnt acknowlege that you even exsist. It hurts even worse when this person makes disparaging remarks about the family (he even told my grandfather one time that didnt want to talk to him about farming and old people in a small town and hung up on him, even though he is going to get a nice chunk of change from him). He was only nice when he needed money. I also think my parents and older brother's priorities were different.
The past few years his life has stabilized, he has a good job, nice wife, new home and things have gotten better. He even paid for me to come see him this spring in a city a couple of hours away where he was on business. Even though I still am somewhat distant from him, I think that he is coming around with the family.

My advice is give him a few years and see how he acts then.

[wordsmith]

In my experience, years of estrangement only serves to further isolate. It's a nice notion to think that you can just give somebody X years to do their thing/be an ass/whatever, and when they get it out of their system, they'll come back into the fold and fences will be mended, and if a family can make that play out that way in practice, more power to them. But it my personal experience, those are tough fences to mend. The more estrangement, the harder.

[mahlerssecond]

In my experience, years of estrangement only serves to further isolate. It's a nice notion to think that you can just give somebody X years to do their thing/be an ass/whatever, and when they get it out of their system, they'll come back into the fold and fences will be mended, and if a family can make that play out that way in practice, more power to them. But it my personal experience, those are tough fences to mend. The more estrangement, the harder.

I think that this depends on the person, the family, and the situation. We still have our differences, it isnt like poof all is well. Some of these differences will probably last a lifetime.

[wordsmith]

Yep...I have a cousin who has done so much damage to her family, both extended and immediate, by her conduct and behavior, that I can't foresee things ever being the same, as relates to her. You really do have to consider the consequences of your actions.

[mahlerssecond]

When you try to rebuild a relationship with someone you bring the previous problems and hurts into the process. It is difficult, if not impossible not to.

[HollyM]

This isn't meant to offend any guys who are reading this who are close to their families but there's this old saying: "Your son's your son till he finds a wife but your daughter's your daughter all her life!" Glad your time with your brother was better than you expected.

[wordsmith]

"Your son's your son till he finds a wife but your daughter's your daughter all her life!

Obviously, as all adages go, a generalization, but I have to say this is one I've found numerous times to be true...whether happenstance or because there's something to it.

[WorkInProgress]

Obviously, as all adages go, a generalization, but I have to say this is one I've found numerous times to be true...whether happenstance or because there's something to it.

This is interesting, because I've noticed the opposite to be true in my life. My fam must be the exception, which is entirely probable.

[wordsmith]

My dad is the only exception in my day to day life who comes to mind...he stuck close to the homefires, while my mom became more physically and emotionally separated from her family.

[Greg]

I'm NOT saying your brother is gay, but SOMETIMES gay siblings keep a distance from their family members after having moved out so that nobody finds out they are gay. Why? They are afraid of being rejected, disowned, being shamed, ridiculed, put down, judged, let alone abandoned. etc.

Find a "safe" way as time goes on to talk about your social life and his. Listen for "clues". Talk about your friends, including the gay ones. What? You have NONE? Yes you do, they are just afraid to tell you that, if that is the case.

Of course, I could be VERY wrong about your brother; he might have some family hurts from long ago that might explain his secrecy, distance, etc.

Just a thought, good luck to you!

[Rusalka]

Hi again everyone. Meant to give an update before now, but my boss is clamping down on Internet usage and I couldn't spend much time on this site for a while. :cry:

So, I talked to my brother. We had a long conversation. I let him know that his long absences upset me, that it was upsetting for others in the family, and I said that as we shared a childhood, I couldn't understand why he would want to cut me off. I asked him if I had done anything to hurt me, and that if I had, I'd want him to tell me, so that I could apologise (I hadn't, he said).

He didn't say much at all. He hardly responded to my questions and conversation .... However, as he stayed sitting at the table with me the whole time, and didn't try to argue at all, I'm assuming that he was listening to at least some of what I was saying.

I asked if he really thought that others did not care about him enough to be concerned when he was hiding away. And he said that yes, he really DID think that. I asked him what proof he had to think this. He said that his boss had sent a colleague, and not him, away on a business trip, so that was 'proof' that his boss did not care about him.

At this point I was thinking: "He really doesn't seem to be in a good place at the moment ... Very black and white thinking. He doesn't seem to know how to deal with a lot of stuff." He is very much into his heavy metal, black clothing, long black hair etc, and I suspect that this rather cuts off his options in terms of how to be, who to make friends with, whether to try new things, and so on. It also probably doesn't help him in terms of impressing his boss! But I felt that a critique of his appearance could come across as over-critical, so I decided not to mention it. I tried to be as encouraging as I could, despite feeling rather frustrated with him, and I tried to offer suggestions. It would take a long time to write up everything that we said, but I tried to avoid criticizing him too much.

All this time my mother was interjecting with very factual questions and not listening to me, and seemed to be completely ignoring the line I was taking. Perhaps I'm over-dismissive of people who don't think like me ... but I did wish she had understood that I was trying to get him to reason and look at his behaviour and situation from the outside. Our mother always means very well, but she's a naive kind of person, who doesn't really question anything or analyse human interaction, and doesn't really know how to offer support, or encouragement, or fresh perspectives. I felt that her approach had not been working on my brother up till now, so it was maybe up to me to try something different.

As to the gay thing, I'd be surprised if my bro wasn't a bit confused about his
sexuality. I've had a lot of issues with embracing my sexuality in the past, so I'd certainly be understanding if my brother had too. What with a certain amount of repression in the family, and having no dad, it seems self-explanatory. One time my mum 'discovered' some gay magazines down the side of his bed. He said he was keeping them for a friend of his ... Hmmmmmm.

My mum asked a friend of hers for advice about having a potentially gay son.
Sandra: 'Is he really neat and tidy?'
Mum: 'Oh no.'
S: 'Well he can't be gay then!'
M: 'Oh good!'
S: 'You know, there is such a thing as "Macho gay".'
M: 'What is that?'
S: 'When a man looks macho, but is actually gay.'

(I am not making any of this up!)

The denoument came when my terrified mother burst out: 'Timothy, just tell me, are you macho gay?!' !!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[shorty]

Wow... your mom kinda sounds like my mom.

That's nice that you talked to your brother. Maybe he didn't say much because he doesn't like feeling vulnerable/sharing his feelings? I'm like that. I would kind of worry about him feeling like no one cares. He probably has self-esteem issues. I can totally relate to his situation.

I don't know what you can really do on your end, except try to talk to him more and include him. Make him aware you care (so he knows someone cares) but try to be subtle about it. I know I would like it if someone really made an effort to include me and show me they really cared (even if it's a small, but thoughtful gesture). But I also know I hate it when people make it so obvious because that makes it feel more like pity and I hate that. Just be there for him. It might take time. And honestly, a lot of it is out of your control too, so don't feel too bad.

[Rusalka]

Wow... your mom kinda sounds like my mom.

That's nice that you talked to your brother. Maybe he didn't say much because he doesn't like feeling vulnerable/sharing his feelings? I'm like that. I would kind of worry about him feeling like no one cares. He probably has self-esteem issues. I can totally relate to his situation.

I don't know what you can really do on your end, except try to talk to him more and include him. Make him aware you care (so he knows someone cares) but try to be subtle about it. I know I would like it if someone really made an effort to include me and show me they really cared (even if it's a small, but thoughtful gesture). But I also know I hate it when people make it so obvious because that makes it feel more like pity and I hate that. Just be there for him. It might take time. And honestly, a lot of it is out of your control too, so don't feel too bad.

You are totally making sense. I think my bro is very wary of sharing or showing his feelings, as am I. I'd think that nobody in my family could really understand. Maybe I don't understand my brother very well, but I'd like to help if possible. But I really take your point about being super-nice in a pitying or patronising kind of way. I've been on the receiving end of that before, and felt terrible.

Since his visit, we have been messaging each other a bit on Facebook. 2 messages so far. Compared to the 2 messages or so I got from him in the past year, that's progress :)

Just to clarify, the gay discusssion I mentioned earlier didn't take place this weekend. It happened a few years ago. I do wonder if that had quite a bit to do with my bro moving far, far away.