Your opinion of actuaries?

[dave134]

Just curious what your opinion of them is. I want a job where I can use my math and statistical knowledge. I don't want to be an actuary long term cause I have the impression they are blood-sucking, evil people who drive up insurance company profits, but I feel like in the short term it would be an intellectually challenging job, attainable based on education since I don't have experience, and may help me move into something more enjoyable later on.

[spokes]

actuaries work in other places than just insurance companies.

it seems as if you have a negative opion of actuaries so why would you want to jion them? also as an aside becoming an actuary requires writing several exams over teh course of a number of years.

ultimately what does it matter what i think of them - what does your reasearch tell you?

[yankeeyosh]

Actuaries at insurance companies are mostly involved with ratemaking...in simple terms, they take historical data, whether it be life expectancy, accidents, claims, etc., apply mathematical models to them, and based on the statistical trends, determine how to price insurance in the future.

Starting out, you generally do OK...entry level salaries are between 45 and 60k, depending on whether you passed an exam or two. You will earn more as you complete the exam process, and likely make six figures by the time you become a fellow or even an associate. Exams are critical, and generally you are placed in a program where you are allotted study time and study material and/or seminar classes. Many companies will expect you to pass exams at a measured rate. If you do not pass, you may be kicked out the program or in extreme instances, fired. There are eight exams (I think), and they mostly require high level mathematics through multivariable calculus, advanced statistics, and linear algebra.

If you are not interested in insurance, perhaps you might want to consider becoming a pension actuary...they generally work in employee benefit companies, so there is relatively little insurance you have to concern yourself with. They are generally involved with defined benefit plans, which while fewer in number than in the past, are still important.

[dave134]

Hi yankeeyosh, I read some of your other posts where you were thinking of being an actuary. I think its perfect for me because I am really good at math/stats and I already looked at the first exam and I just need a brief refresher and I should be able to nail that one. Do actuaries do any work for the public good? That was sorta the crux of my question. I would feel so guilty if my job was just to maximize company profits at the expense of the people. It seems to me actuaries can be used in evil ways.

[redav]

Anything in the risk-assessment world (actuaries, HSE, etc) would use those skills. Also, inventory analysis (or other process analysis positions, such as six-sigma or lean manufacturing) is another field where they would be useful.

[robinfred]

You could try insurance regulation for the government. You'd basically be checking rate filings made by insurance companies to make sure the rates they are charging are fair, amongst other things. Starting salaries are usually a bit lower than working for private companies, but the atmosphere is usually more laid back and they're not as strict about exams (i.e. you can fail a few times and they won't fire you or kick you out the department). Check your state's job website or I know the Social Security administration and the PBGC hire actuaries on the federal side. Good luck!

[yankeeyosh]

Hi yankeeyosh, I read some of your other posts where you were thinking of being an actuary. I think its perfect for me because I am really good at math/stats and I already looked at the first exam and I just need a brief refresher and I should be able to nail that one. Do actuaries do any work for the public good? That was sorta the crux of my question. I would feel so guilty if my job was just to maximize company profits at the expense of the people. It seems to me actuaries can be used in evil ways.

I don't think you would find it in insurance because you would be working for a corporation. However, there are actuaries that work for state governments, and in some instances, city governments. I was once almost hired to work for the Teachers' Retirement Plan of N. Y. State, which I think is about as close as you can get to doing it for the "public good". The only problem is that the salaries for the state are very low...I would have only made 34K as an entry level actuary, which wasn't what I was looking for.

[Jabberwocky]

I really don't think you can stamp a big evil sign on any profession. Almost every company makes money in one way or another. I am not an actuary, but the ones I see at work don't seem to be bad people. I work for a non-profit insurance company, but I don't see it as more or less evil because every company has to be financially viable. I know someone who use to work in pension. he says it is a dying field. Fewer and fewer companies nowadays have a pension plan.

The money is good if you can pass a lot of exams but there are a lot of very very smart people who fail repeatedly and decide to quit the profession. Not to scare you, some people commit a better part of their youth taking exams only to hit a wall they cant pass.

PS Get ready for a lot of hard work. I passed the first exam yesterday and the amount of studying required is not funny. My head hurts really badly today. :0 At this point, I'm still not sure if I want to get into the field. I'm afraid of waking up one day 10 years from now to realize that I don't have what it takes and that I've committed a chunk of my life to taking exams. With that said, I'm studying for the next exam anyways.

[yankeeyosh]

I really don't think you can stamp a big evil sign on any profession. Almost every company makes money in one way or another. I am not an actuary, but the ones I see at work don't seem to be bad people. I work for a non-profit insurance company, but I don't see it as more or less evil because every company has to be financially viable. I know someone who use to work in pension. he says it is a dying field. Fewer and fewer companies nowadays have a pension plan.

Well, the smaller DB plans are dying, yes. However, many of the larger, "old school" companies are probably not going to change any time soon. DB plans plateaued about 20-25 years ago, and there has been a decline, but I don't think they will completely go away.


The money is good if you can pass a lot of exams but there are a lot of very very smart people who fail repeatedly and decide to quit the profession. Not to scare you, some people commit a better part of their youth taking exams only to hit a wall they cant pass.

True, the pass rate is 30-40% for most exams. And you have to study 300-400 hours per exam to get that passing mark.

PS Get ready for a lot of hard work. I passed the first exam yesterday and the amount of studying required is not funny. My head hurts really badly today. :0 At this point, I'm still not sure if I want to get into the field. I'm afraid of waking up one day 10 years from now to realize that I don't have what it takes and that I've committed a chunk of my life to taking exams. With that said, I'm studying for the next exam anyways.
Congrats on passing. It is not easy...the first one I didn't have too much of a problem with because it was a review of what I learned in school. The second was a struggle since there was a lot of new material, particularly with finance (which I'm not too big of a fan of). But I passed that one with an "8". If I was given an opportunity where I received exam support, I would gladly keep going. But my current position will not support me, so I just don't have the motivation at the moment.

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks, I'm cramming for the 2nd exam now. I have about 90 days to do it and I don't know if I can. My undergraduate degree was in statistics, but for the 2nd exam, I don't know anything about finance.