Bush = No $4 gas

[yankeeyosh]

Bush continues to waste away in La-La Land, as he seemed absolutely clueless about the prospect of $4 gas. He is also still convinced that we are not heading into a recession: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4361751

I wonder if George Bush and Herbert Hoover and long lost cousins...

[PenforPrez]

Bush continues to waste away in La-La Land, as he seemed absolutely clueless about the prospect of $4 gas. He is also still convinced that we are not heading into a recession: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4361751

I loved Bush's solution for preventing $4 gas: Make the tax cuts permanent. Yep, clueless. :rolleyes:

Paul

[ebruening]

A gallon of gas...$4. The U.S. dollar's current value in Euros...$.67. The look on Bush's face when he realized his teleprompter had malfunctioned...priceless.

Dude, the look on Bush's face in the largest photo really was priceless. His look seemed to say, "where is the teleprompter? What did they do with it? Should I use the term 'robustly' again, to fill up time while they're getting my teleprompter back online?"

[lazy ass]

Weak dollar is good for exports=good for manufacturing

[yankeeyosh]

Weak dollar is good for exports=good for manufacturing

If it's so good, why are economic indices in the manufacturing sector tanking?

[PenforPrez]

Weak dollar is good for exports=good for manufacturing

If it's so good, why are economic indices in the manufacturing sector tanking?

A lot of Europeans are buying more American goods lately because they're relatively cheap with the soaring euro (and the pound, which is also pretty high).

I've been insisting to my company's management that we really need to market more to international customers for that reason. I'm getting more and more online queries from Europe right now.

Paul

[caddymac]

Am I the only one that thinks $4/gallon gas isn't really that big of a deal? It's not like that stuff will be around forever, why not put some incentive on us Americans to be a bit more conservative with our natural resources?

[and1grad]

Am I the only one that thinks $4/gallon gas isn't really that big of a deal? It's not like that stuff will be around forever, why not put some incentive on us Americans to be a bit more conservative with our natural resources?
What about people who dont have a choice but to drive long distances to work?

[sparky88]

I live in the city and walk to work and I still think $4 gas is too much. I am still not comfortable with $3 gas. Heck, I am still wishing it would go back down to $2.00 or $2.50. Funny THAT actually sounds cheap now. Ugh.

[PenforPrez]

What's disturbing is why crude oil is soaring right now. It has little to do with supply and demand. The recent oil runup is due mainly to greedy investors looking for a surer bet right now with falling stocks and the dollar. There is also the general increase in commodity prices (oil, gold, corn, wheat, coffee, etc.), which is a long-term pattern. Food is rising and will continue to rise for that reason also.

OPEC officials have openly said there's plenty of oil on the market right now and there is little reason for oil to be as high as it is. They're right. U.S. gasoline stockpiles are at about a 15-year high right now. Crude oil stockpiles are very healthy. Some analysts are already predicting crude oil as high as $200 or more (it's at $102 today) long term. People should read Bloomberg everyday and see what moves the oil markets. They would be disgusted, as I am.

Paul

[Rage]

I don't care as much about gasoline prices for my car as much as I do prices for heating oil. When it means some family can't heat their house, or on a selfish level, I have to pay a higher premium so someone else can heat their house - it's a problem. Luckily this is just hypothetical for me since I run on natural gas. On one hand I think $4 bucks a gallon sucks, but then I look at Europeans paying double that and I feel lucky. Then I am also happy how a market-driven economy responds by producing more efficient vehicles. Unfortunately, it takes something like high gas prices to get the auto makers to make a fix.

[LowCarbLife]

I am NOT HAPPY about gas prices right now. It makes me SICK. It wouldn't be so bad if it was a slow increase over time...but I remember in 2002, gas was $1.30 a gallon.

I do not know the entire gas price process...but I do know that gas companies worldwide must "bid" per gallon. Our gas companies and government have no control. I just don't see where we have a "gameplan" to bypass this....since it is a bidding process ie. Arabia bids $102 per gallon...we have no choice but to bid $102 a gallon...or we will not have any gas! YIKES!

[redav]

Am I the only one that thinks $4/gallon gas isn't really that big of a deal? It's not like that stuff will be around forever, why not put some incentive on us Americans to be a bit more conservative with our natural resources?
You're not the only one. I agree that increased price is the only method that will actually motivate Americans to change their behavior. Since my gasoline bill is only ~$60/mo., if the price doubled to $6/gal, my direct cost increase would only be $60/mo.--not pleasant, but not that painful.

[Jersey_Steve]

Am I the only one that thinks $4/gallon gas isn't really that big of a deal? It's not like that stuff will be around forever, why not put some incentive on us Americans to be a bit more conservative with our natural resources?

I think the same way. Especially when talking to my cousin who's stationed in the Netherlands with the Army. Gas over there is 1.50 Euros a liter. And with about 4 liters to a gallon, that's 6 Euros for a gallon. Or 9 US Dollars for a gallon. I'll take my $3 gas and smile.

We gotta get the SUV and Hummers and Trucks for people who don't need trucks off the road. That'll be a good start.

[and1grad]

Honestly, the price paid for gas in other parts of the world is irrelevant. It doesnt even really provide perspective b/c almost none of us have any idea how dependent they are on gas. I think its more important to concentrate on the hardships this is putting on us here.

[stargurl84]

We gotta get the SUV and Hummers and Trucks for people who don't need trucks off the road. That'll be a good start.

I couldn't agree more. I see so many SUVs being driven by people who work a 9-5 in an office and dong haul anything. It's so wasteful!

[PenforPrez]

A lot of European nations are discussing raising road taxes significantly on Hummers and other such vehicles (which already pay massive road tax in Europe). They have an interesting supporter: a former CEO of Shell. :rolleyes:

Paul

[caddymac]

What about people who dont have a choice but to drive long distances to work?
We all have choices, although not always perfect ones. Those people could choose to work somewhere closer to home. They could choose a house/apartment closer to work. They could choose a more fuel efficient vehicle.

I don't see how cheap gas helps anyone in both the short term and in the long term. With cheap gas comes a lot of waste (huge SUV's to drive little Timmy to soccer practice) and no incentive for the oil companies to spend profits on infrastructure improvements. I find it hilarious that the same people that complain about the "evil" oil companies charging too much for gas were the same ones that said "not in my backyard" for DECADES when oil companies wanted to improve or build new refineries.

The same thing is going on in the Midwest right now with power companies. There's a real need to increase electrical production to support the ethanol and wind turbine plants. The tree-huggers (for lack of a better term) are constantly saying how misleading the power companies are for wanting to build new coal powered plants to support the green initiative. Hate to say it, but the power companies are correct, if we want to increase production of "green" products, we have to use more energy at the moment to do so. Maybe someday in the future we can use more and more greener sources, but for now we have to go with some old methods to help produce the new.

Anyway, everybody bitched when gas was $2/gallon, and a very small number changed their lifestyle. At the end of the day, no one starved themselves to death and no one had to radically change their living arrangements. $3 gas hurts, but it is bearable. $4 gas will sting, but people will somehow learn to get by. Remember, the automobile is only a recent invention, humans got along fine for a very very very long time without them.

Sorry for my rambling.

[vinsanity]

We all have choices, although not always perfect ones. Those people could choose to work somewhere closer to home. They could choose a house/apartment closer to work. They could choose a more fuel efficient vehicle.

I don't see how cheap gas helps anyone in both the short term and in the long term. With cheap gas comes a lot of waste (huge SUV's to drive little Timmy to soccer practice) and no incentive for the oil companies to spend profits on infrastructure improvements. I find it hilarious that the same people that complain about the "evil" oil companies charging too much for gas were the same ones that said "not in my backyard" for DECADES when oil companies wanted to improve or build new refineries.


If I live closer to work, rent goes up $200/mo, just by virtue of the area.

Working closer to home is not always a viable option. For me, home is straddling the border between a bedroom community and industrial district with warehouses and stuff. Not anyone who needs a Financial Analyst, especially in this job market.

Buying another car for more fuel efficiency would mean that I'd lose thousands of dollars in depreciation, since gas was well under $3.00/gallon when I bought my car. So no savings to be found there.

Even if $4/gallon gas is the least of all these evils, please tell me how cheap gas won't help...

[and1grad]

We all have choices, although not always perfect ones. Those people could choose to work somewhere closer to home. They could choose a house/apartment closer to work. They could choose a more fuel efficient vehicle.
And for those that dont live in that particular fairy tale?

[redav]

And for those that dont live in that particular fairy tale?
Well, I guess they could move away from CA and get a different job. If it is not possible to live close to work, then there's a good chance that the area is overpopulated anyway, and moving is good for everyone--less crowding & competition for scarce resources for those who stay, lower costs for those who move, a reduced labor pool for the businesses that stay means they would have to increase wages to retain workers, which will then motivate them to move to the lower cost areas themselves, prompting more equality of jobs, wages, and COLs in the various places of the country.

The price of gas is only going to go higher and higher. It will never come down significantly again. There is always a choice, even if that choice is not pleasant. However, since the decisions we make, such as what car to buy, will have consequences for many years, so it is best to look as far down the road as possible when making them, and that means biting the bullet at times. (I didn't just happen to get a fuel efficient car and live close to work; I paid a premium for that at the time, and it is now paying--and will continue to pay--dividends.)

[and1grad]

Well, I guess they could move away from CA and get a different job. If it is not possible to live close to work, then there's a good chance that the area is overpopulated anyway, and moving is good for everyone--less crowding & competition for scarce resources for those who stay, lower costs for those who move, a reduced labor pool for the businesses that stay means they would have to increase wages to retain workers, which will then motivate them to move to the lower cost areas themselves, prompting more equality of jobs, wages, and COLs in the various places of the country.
Doesnt really have much to do with living in CA. And what if you're giving up a lot by changing jobs? Moving isnt good for everyone. People's lives dont just boil down to some schoolbook economic theory.
The price of gas is only going to go higher and higher. It will never come down significantly again. There is always a choice, even if that choice is not pleasant. However, since the decisions we make, such as what car to buy, will have consequences for many years, so it is best to look as far down the road as possible when making them, and that means biting the bullet at times. (I didn't just happen to get a fuel efficient car and live close to work; I paid a premium for that at the time, and it is now paying--and will continue to pay--dividends.)
Thats easy to say for someone who's relatively new to the working world. Would you give that same advice to someone who's working towards retiring w/i the next decade? Tell em to move, switch jobs? Hey, bite the bullet. Moving's good for everyone.

[vinsanity]

Well, I guess they could move away from CA and get a different job.

I suggest you browse the "work" forum to get a quick impression of today's job market. It ain't pretty.

[redav]

I suggest you browse the "work" forum to get a quick impression of today's job market. It ain't pretty.
It ain't pretty for some people. It's quite rosy for others. There are places in the country (like here) that have the lowest unemployment rate in 30 yrs, the mortgage crisis has already begun to turn the corner, people are getting signing bonuses + huge raises because there are literally not enough warm bodies to do the work that needs to be done.

Doesnt really have much to do with living in CA. And what if you're giving up a lot by changing jobs. Moving isnt good for everyone. People's lives dont just boil down to some schoolbook economic theory.
Choice: Give up a lot because you don't do something about your situation, -or- Give up a lot by doing something about your situation? Yes, that's a tough choice, I won't admit that. But if life is so difficult today because of gas prices, then I can guarantee you that it's only going to get worse, because higher prices in the future are inevitable.

So what then?

Thats easy to say for someone who's relatively new to the working world. Would you give that same advice to someone who's working towards retiring w/i the next decade? Tell em to move, switch jobs? Hey, bite the bullet. Moving's good for everyone.
Apparently it's also easy to misquote. If the area is overpopulated, having people move away is good for the one moving and the ones staying, thus, "everyone." That was pretty obvious from the context.

There is a fundamental principle here: You will either have problems or you will deal with them. You can't make all your problems go away, but complaining won't make any of them disappear. But it seems I'm in the minority for thinking doing something about them is going to be the better option.

[PenforPrez]

Gas prices hit a new record average today: $3.20. The founder of the Lundberg gas price survey said today that gas prices will likely go up 20 to 30 cents a gallon short-term.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aMWWnDLKurac&refer=home

Paul

[yankeeyosh]

Gas prices hit a new record average today: $3.20. The founder of the Lundberg gas price survey said today that gas prices will likely go up 20 to 30 cents a gallon short-term.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aMWWnDLKurac&refer=home

Paul

And per Bush and his cronies, the economy is still on good footing.

I wonder how those people who bought those overpriced Mc Mansions who commute 60 miles each way in their SUVs feel these days...

[PenforPrez]

Crude oil hit a new record in electronic trading in Singapore overnight, approaching $110 a barrel. It appears likely crude will hit a new record above $109 in New York today. It's just bizarre the way these investors keep pouring money into the oil market when the fundamentals of the market say crude should be about 1/3 lower.

But nobody cares if these crazed traders drive oil so high that it causes an old-school economic panic. Nobody cares about how working people are affected in all this. The only worry is that the rich get richer. What a sick fucking society! :mad:

I read last week that a rise in crude to $115 to $125 would extend the recession into 2009 and the severity thereof. But, as noted above, people in power seemingly couldn't care less. :rolleyes:

Paul

[Samwell]

Crude oil hit a new record in electronic trading in Singapore overnight, approaching $110 a barrel.
...
I read last week that a rise in crude to $115 to $125 would extend the recession into 2009 and the severity thereof. But, as noted above, people in power seemingly couldn't care less. :rolleyes:


It bears remembering that before the Iraq war oil was, oh, $25 a barrel...

[PenforPrez]

It bears remembering that before the Iraq war oil was, oh, $25 a barrel...

One of Saudi Arabia's top oil ministers said last week the floor for oil prices should be around $60 because alternative sources of oil and other forms of energy are unprofitable below that level. Of course, we'd have to have an economic collapse for oil to hit $60 again. :rolleyes:

Paul

[financelife]

Weak dollar is good for exports=good for manufacturing

But we're not a manufacturing country anymore......

[financelife]

And per Bush and his cronies, the economy is still on good footing.

I wonder how those people who bought those overpriced Mc Mansions who commute 60 miles each way in their SUVs feel these days...

I'm okay with gas prices, but I do wonder how all the pick-up truck drivers and suv drivers feel. Well, I do know how one person feels. A coworker drives a big Nissan van to work everyday, and recently asked if I wanted to car pool since we live in the same side of town. But since I'm gen Y and coworker is a boomer, our morning clocks don't coincide. lol (i don't like waking up at 5am).

Yeah, this is America, and you can drive what you want to, but really ppl. The van is mainly used by coworker who does have two daughters in elementary school, but they don't ride in the van because the stay at home spouse takes them to school. So, it's just the coworker commuting in the van 5 sometimes 6 days a week....

And it usually seems that way. I hardly see a packed SUV on my commute. It's always one person in a big ass gas guzzling vehicle. So, whatever, I say up with gas prices since everyone loves their SUVs. Maybe I just wanna see ppl crunch. Maybe then we can get serious about more environmentally friendly vehicles that are cheap on gas. I have a wife and baby and we don't have large vehicles and manage fine.

And I'm not ranting against anyone who does actually use their big trucks to haul most days. But you don't need it just because you might want to buy a new couch later and would be great to have a truck.

[vinsanity]

I'm annoyed at people who drive huge trucks, too, but high gas prices aren't the way to punish them, because high gas prices punishes everybody, including people who drive hybrids. Gas prices have even been blamed for the rising food costs.

So, no. Higher gas prices = no bueno.

[redav]

I'm annoyed at people who drive huge trucks, too, but high gas prices aren't the way to punish them, because high gas prices punishes everybody, including people who drive hybrids. Gas prices have even been blamed for the rising food costs.

So, no. Higher gas prices = no bueno.
But then again, when people buy too much gas (because of overly large vehicles, for example), that hurts everyone else. Then the question is how to get people to use less without high prices?

[PenforPrez]

I'm annoyed at people who drive huge trucks, too, but high gas prices aren't the way to punish them, because high gas prices punishes everybody, including people who drive hybrids. Gas prices have even been blamed for the rising food costs.

So, no. Higher gas prices = no bueno.

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but they're suggesting something similar in Europe for people who drive gas guzzlers as a way to curb carbon emissions. It would only target those drivers, though.

There's a LOT of reasons food is going up (and will continue doing so); high diesel is just one.

Paul

[vinsanity]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but they're suggesting something similar in Europe for people who drive gas guzzlers as a way to curb carbon emissions. It would only target those drivers, though.


I posted an article about that here in the Current Events forum.

Europe sucks :evil:

[PenforPrez]

I posted an article about that here in the Current Events forum.

Europe sucks :evil:

I thought I should have remembered it. I'm getting old. :p

[kellybeen18]

We gotta get the SUV and Hummers and Trucks for people who don't need trucks off the road. That'll be a good start.

I have been saying the same thing for years! Thank you! You DO NOT need to drive your giant truck to the grocery store to pick up milk and bread. It's really selfish and arrogant toward everyone else on the planet.

[and1grad]

There's more to it than the size of your vehicle. Rather than just blaming drivers, people should put some thought into blaming the auto industry for not making those vehicles more fuel-efficient. Also, take into account that people who do drive smaller vehicles might also do a lot of driving such that they arent exactly saints. Its very easy to vilify someone who drives a larger vehicle but we're ALL to blame here. Not just truck/SUV owners.

[PenforPrez]

Also, take into account that people who do drive smaller vehicles might also do a lot of driving such that they arent exactly saints.

Or people that buy a 50 MPG Chevy Metro, then drive it at 85 on the Interstate. ;)

[and1grad]

Or people that buy a 50 MPG Chevy Metro, then drive it at 85 on the Interstate. ;)
IMO, the only true solution to the gas issue is developing a workable public transit solution. Its not going to come from driving smaller, cute, vehicles or trying to develop alternative fuels, which would just lead us back to this same issue in who knows how many years. Put people in a position where they dont have to drive. One thing that is funny to me is that I bet given the right kind of access to the information they need, at least 65% of the people that work downtown could do their jobs from home. I can only imagine how much gas, etc. you save with that.

[vinsanity]

Or people that buy a 50 MPG Chevy Metro, then drive it at 85 on the Interstate. ;)

hey, that takes some mad driving talent :D

bravo to anyone that can manage a higher average speed than horsepower :heehee:

[PenforPrez]

I agree totally; mass transit funding should be greatly expanded. But a lot of FTA funds have dried up. I know that's part of the reason light rail here in St. Louis can't be expanded again just yet. :(

Paul

[PenforPrez]

bravo to anyone that can manage a higher average speed than horsepower :heehee:

I see that all the time. The speed limit in Missouri is 70, and I usually don't go over that because it kills my gas mileage to go much over 70. But I get passed by nearly everybody, and them little three- and four-clunkers blast by me doing 85, at least. :eek:

Paul

[vinsanity]

I see that all the time. The speed limit in Missouri is 70, and I usually don't go over that because it kills my gas mileage to go much over 70. But I get passed by nearly everybody, and them little three- and four-clunkers blast by me doing 85, at least. :eek:

Paul

I wish drivers here would take a lesson from them, then. Every time I'm fortunate enough to have traffic clear up, I always end up coming up behind some asshat picking his nose doing 65 in the fast lane :mad:

[Bocheezu]

Rather than just blaming drivers, people should put some thought into blaming the auto industry for not making those vehicles more fuel-efficient.

Yeah, because just about every dollar of research and product development money doesn't already go to trying to improve fuel economy. We could get absolutely mind boggling fuel economy if there was significant profit in it. Gasoline direct-inject stratified, hybrid offerings on every vehicle, diesels, you name it. Guess what, there aren't any customers willing to pay for that technology because the gas price is too low for it to be a viable purchase. The sheer fact that people still buy SUVs proves to me that fuel economy isn't dire enough concern for the general public for improved fuel economy offerings. If fuel economy was as concern, nobody, and I mean nobody would ever even consider buying an SUV. See Europe.

[lostindc]

It bears remembering that before the Iraq war oil was, oh, $25 a barrel...

It also bears remembering that before the Iraq war the dollar was worth more than the Euro and the Looney.

[PenforPrez]

It also bears remembering that before the Iraq war the dollar was worth more than the Euro and the Looney.

The decline of the dollar is a slightly more recent occurrence.

[sondra_finchley]

and1grad- i think expanding rail and other transit options also opens the "American Way of Planning" can of worms. This last expansion was disastrous ( at least in my view) not only from the cost of houses perspective but the absolutely abhorrent way the housing was laid out and is continuing the dependency on the car especially some of these suburbs that are really far out of the central cities. I don't think Americans are ready to give up their huge suburban homes and chunk of grass any time soon- suburbia is even more ingrained in the American conscious as cheap gas and big-engined cars.

[vinsanity]

I'd gladly move out of suburbia, but housing becomes even more expensive as you move closer to the city centers. :frustrate

[PenforPrez]

I'd gladly move out of suburbia, but housing becomes even more expensive as you move closer to the city centers. :frustrate

Where I live, the opposite is true.

[vinsanity]

Where I live, the opposite is true.

correction: desirable housing ;):

[PenforPrez]

correction: desirable housing ;):

Still true. The city of St. Louis right now is gaining population for the first time since the late 1940's . :p

[and1grad]

Yeah, because just about every dollar of research and product development money doesn't already go to trying to improve fuel economy. We could get absolutely mind boggling fuel economy if there was significant profit in it. Gasoline direct-inject stratified, hybrid offerings on every vehicle, diesels, you name it. Guess what, there aren't any customers willing to pay for that technology because the gas price is too low for it to be a viable purchase. The sheer fact that people still buy SUVs proves to me that fuel economy isn't dire enough concern for the general public for improved fuel economy offerings. If fuel economy was as concern, nobody, and I mean nobody would ever even consider buying an SUV. See Europe.
I'm not sure if thats supposed to be disputing my point in any way but...ok.

sondra, I totally agree. Urban sprawl has been disastrous in a number of ways and in my opinion, has indirect health impacts that even the media hasnt truly explored. However, I do believe there are ways to make pub trans work...even around the suburbs.

Where I live, as well as cities I've been to, its FAR more expensive to live closer to the city than it is to live further out.

[Bocheezu]

I'm not sure if thats supposed to be disputing my point in any way but...ok.

My point is the vehicle technology is already out there, Americans refuse to embrace it. That's not the car company's fault. Here's a run-of-the-mill vehicle in Europe --

http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/allnewmondeo/co2_mdo/co2_model_mdo_diesel/-/-/-/-

You can't sell that in the U.S., even if diesel is cheap.

[vinsanity]

My point is the vehicle technology is already out there, Americans refuse to embrace it. That's not the car company's fault. Here's a run-of-the-mill vehicle in Europe --

http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/allnewmondeo/co2_mdo/co2_model_mdo_diesel/-/-/-/-

You can't sell that in the U.S., even if diesel is cheap.

one thing worth mentioning, though: the UK imperial gallon is bigger than the US gallon. It still equates to about 32-40 mpg US.

another thing worth mentioning: that car with those engines start at $34,000 USD. The difference between that and a Prius, let alone a cheaper gas-only car, will still buy a lot of gasoline even at $4.00/gal.

That said, I actually think that we have made great improvements in efficiency since the oil crisis days. My 2004 car gets the same mpg as my old 1999 car, which was smaller AND had a smaller engine. Don't even get me started on my old 1995 car :p

[and1grad]

My point is the vehicle technology is already out there, Americans refuse to embrace it. That's not the car company's fault. Here's a run-of-the-mill vehicle in Europe --

http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/allnewmondeo/co2_mdo/co2_model_mdo_diesel/-/-/-/-

You can't sell that in the U.S., even if diesel is cheap.
I think Americans havent embraced it b/c of things like price and the cost of maintenance. NOBODY looks at a car and says "What? More MPG? I think not, sir!" However, there is no disputing that mpg alone will not sell a car...nor should it be expected to be.

I also always notice just how nice and comfortable those SUVs are in comparison to the LEV I drove and others I've seen. The difference is night and day and people are going to put their money into that.

[dacrunkest]

If you commit to a certain style of living, you have to deal with the negatives as much as the positives. If you want the space and safety that the exoburbs provide, you may have to put up with a light-year commute to work. As such, you are gonna end up with high gasoline costs. Kinda goes with that whole logic of "you can't have everything you want, when you want it" thing...somewhat of a foreign notion in this day in age, I suppose...

Gas is $3.15, yet the demand hasn't really plummeted. I guess we can complain until the cows come home, but if we aren't going to vote with our dollars and lifestyle choices, it's kinda pointless...

[Bman120]

If you commit to a certain style of living, you have to deal with the negatives as much as the positives. If you want the space and safety that the exoburbs provide, you may have to put up with a light-year commute to work. As such, you are gonna end up with high gasoline costs. Kinda goes with that whole logic of "you can't have everything you want, when you want it" thing...somewhat of a foreign notion in this day in age, I suppose...

Gas is $3.15, yet the demand hasn't really plummeted. I guess we can complain until the cows come home, but if we aren't going to vote with our dollars and lifestyle choices, it's kinda pointless...

Sometimes commiting to a style of living is more than a choice for some people. You can't make that kind of statement and expect it to apply to everyone.

Also, we can vote with all the dollars and politicians we want and that won't change the gas prices. Nor will dragging the oil companies before congress. It's not their fault either. It's natural market forces that are driving these prices so high. Supply is fine right now, violence in the middle east is nowhere near as bad as it has been and but yet the prices were lower when they were worse.

Oil has seperated from the whole supply and demand thing and the usual forces that drive it. What's driving it now is speculative investment. People have been getting out of stocks and putting money into commodities like Oil. This has brought up the price. Also with the price so high and going higher, people are getting in to actually make money rather than just protection. It's become a bubble. And like all bubbles, it will burst. When it does, prices will drop like a rock. We need to let this play out. Prices are reaching points now where people are cutting back and this will help bring the prices down. But there really isn't much that can be done to accelerate it unfortunately. I wish there was because the economic harm they are causing people is rediculous.

I think Americans havent embraced it b/c of things like price and the cost of maintenance. NOBODY looks at a car and says "What? More MPG? I think not, sir!" However, there is no disputing that mpg alone will not sell a car...nor should it be expected to be.

I also always notice just how nice and comfortable those SUVs are in comparison to the LEV I drove and others I've seen. The difference is night and day and people are going to put their money into that.

Exactly. We can't deny that people want quality and function in their cars and this comes first because when we get a car, its for a purpose and if that purpose isnt filled properly, then there isn't much point in having it.

[Bocheezu]

one thing worth mentioning, though: the UK imperial gallon is bigger than the US gallon. It still equates to about 32-40 mpg US.

They get 50mpg(US). Diesels don't get that low a fuel economy unless you leadfoot it.

another thing worth mentioning: that car with those engines start at $34,000 USD. The difference between that and a Prius, let alone a cheaper gas-only car, will still buy a lot of gasoline even at $4.00/gal.

They wouldn't be that expensive if built in the US. Maybe this is better example of the US version of a diesel car, if Ford had the engine technology to make it --

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4235586.html