My father

[PenforPrez]

I mentioned this in another thread, but I've been thinking on this, and I need to write some of this down.

I love my father. He's not a perfect man. When I was very little, he would drink too much and hit my mother. My father's a bit of a racist and a homophobe (how he's still a Democrat after voting in 16 Presidential elections confuses most people). But I just can't see my father as an inherently bad person. He simply grew up in a completely different culture than what we have today.

I give that background to tell this story. We had some car trouble when my parents and I went on vacation recently. The pressure hose on the power steering on my father's almost brand-new Buick was crimped at the factory, and it got a hole in it. So we had to feather it 300 miles to my relatives' house.

Dad was cranky and unbearably negative during that 300-mile span. While I'm trying to concentrate on steering the car, I'm sitting there realizing something I thought I understood years ago.

I came to understand years ago that my father has always been a more negative person for whatever reason. But I never realized until that moment in the car with my father that his crankiness and negativity really had an affect on me growing up with him, and how much that has affected my own life. It also explains my huge quest for an older male role model more in line with my personal values, since my father's values and mine are very different.

So what do I do now that I've realized this? What kind of tangible steps can I take now to rise above this?

Paul

[roulettefanatic]

hey, your post brought out a couple of feelings.....first of all, i think it's great that you love your father despite some of the negativity and things you mentioned.....second of all, i think it definitely helps to write down your feelings, especially with regards to a recent outing with someone (in your case, you realized an important difference between the two of you in the car on the vacation).....i think a lot of us have conflicting feelings about our parents.....in my case, i definitely have been at odds with my father for as long as i can remember, but i share you're views as far as loving him despite the shortcomings in the relationship.....my father has always dealt with family problems or issues by yelling and cursing, while i'm the exact opposite (i'm more of a let's-talk-this-through person, though i will admit i have his fiery temper)......when there are good enough moments, i try to look back on them and say that it wasn't all bad and it really isn't, but it's hard when you truly don't get along (my relationship with my mother, although bad at times as well, is more solid emotionally)......and i think it's a cultural difference like you said, because a few times he would use words that let's just say aren't politicallly correct at the dinner table and i remember taking issue, but i have to stop myself and remember that i didn't live through his childhood in another country and in another time, so i don't blame him personally for some of those attitudes.....my uncle can be worse with that stuff actually, so you have to look at the bright side sometimes.....neither of them are bad people by any means, it's just a little misunderstanding most of the time.....

[wordsmith]

I think most people have to come to grips with difficult things about their parents over the course of a lifetime, and people deal in very different ways and make very different types of decisions regarding their parents. It's an important part of growing up, and just plain growing, IMO.

[NewMrs.]

Paul, I'm sorry to hear this. I don't know if I can give you any good advice. However, in a way I am empathetic to your situation.

Let me start off by saying that I am really lucky to have the parents that I have. My father is a wonderful father and he has always treated my mother with love and respect, and I am fortunate to have him as the male role model in my life.

However, I have posted a few times about my maternal grandfather, who passed away almost two weeks ago. Like your father, my grandfather was a part of a different generation and era. My grandfather grew up in the depression, lost his own father at a very young age, served in the marines, and then he became a city policeman in the 1950's until he retired in the late 80's.

I have never seen my grandfather physically abuse my grandmother or anybody else, and I have never witnessed him intoxicated, and I have no reason to believe that he had ever had a drinking problem.

However, when I was young I used to watch my grandfather verbally abuse my grandmother. He liked an audience, and so he would be as much of a jerk that he could be when my family came to visit. When I was young he would purposely drop racial slurs and front of me and my sisters to see if he could get any kind of reaction out of us or our parents. I remember many, many dinner conversations at my grandparents' house that seemed to be a challenge for my grandfather as to how many times he could use the N-word in one story. During various dinner conversations, we had to be quiet while he ripped on this or that ethnic group or religion. In most of my memories of him, he is angry or bitter about something or someone.

He treated most of the family like crap as well. He didn't like it when other people got college educations. When my parents were dating, he didn't like my dad because my dad was going to college. (Never mind that my father worked full-time and commuted while helping to support his own widowed mother while he was getting his college degree.) In addition to this, his lack of respect for women was obvious. I remember him telling me once when I was young that women shouldn't join the police department because they put the men in danger. A few years ago, he told my sister (who was in grad school at the time) that after she finished her master's degree she would most likely end up as somebody's secretary. From the time that I was fifteen until I got married, he asked me every time that I saw him whether I had a boyfriend yet, and later he asked me if I had a husband yet.

I have been angry at him since his recent death, because I never got the chance to tell him when he was alive how upset he made me. My parents never talked back to him, and I was expected to never talk back to him either. I think that my mother was afraid of him, and it was for this reason that she never called him out on his behavior. My father didn't either, because he is married to my mom and he wanted to keep the peace with her. Nonetheless, I think that it was irresponsible of my parents that they used to let him use all of the racial slurs that he did (or speak to my grandmother the way that he did) in front of me and my sisters when we were very young.

One of the things that has bothered me lately is the number of times that I have been told that my grandfather was part of a different generation. I know that he had a hard life, but I am tired of hearing excuses for his behavior. I heard a lot of excuses at his recent funeral. I think that the endless excuses about his life is what angers me the most right now. Last weekend I wrote a letter to him in which I pretty much told him off. Nobody else will see this letter, but I am feeling better now.

[NewMrs.]

Paul,

I want to add one more thing. My husband has pointed out to me that we all have people in our past that have brought out things with which we don't want to associate ourselves. However, they are a part of who we are, whether we like it or not. The important thing to remember is to not let ourselves become the same way, and to not let our kids become the same way.

Who knows, my parents may have called my grandfather out on his behavior, just not in front of me. I know that this was hard for them as well, and that they tried to raise me so that I don't act like my grandfather. Whenever I find myself acting like him, I remind myself of how he made me feel, and try to check my behavior.

[wordsmith]

My late grandfather was also a racist. Not the kind of racist that is outwardly vocal about it in public, or incredibly outward about it in general. But if it came up in conversation at home, it came up. He had (offensive, incorrect, and flawed) ideas and philosophies. He didn't share them much, but the point was, they were there. I didn't respect that, and that (and a few other things), seriously dented my respect for him, in general. I, too, often had the "it's just a generational thing, he's a product of his times" thing foisted off on me by embarrassed family members, and I didn't and don't accept that. There are too many people of ANY generation/era who AREN'T /WEREN'T racist to make it "just a generational thing."

[NewMrs.]

My late grandfather was also a racist. Not the kind of racist that is outwardly vocal about it in public, or incredibly outward about it in general. But if it came up in conversation at home, it came up. He had (offensive, incorrect, and flawed) ideas and philosophies. He didn't share them much, but the point was, they were there. I didn't respect that, and that (and a few other things), seriously dented my respect for him, in general. I, too, often had the "it's just a generational thing, he's a product of his times" thing foisted off on me by embarrassed family members, and I didn't and don't accept that. There are too many people of ANY generation/era who AREN'T /WEREN'T racist to make it "just a generational thing."

Its interesting to see that somebody else doesn't think that the generational thing is not a "get out of jail free card" for this.

I don't really have another man from that era to which I can compare my maternal grandfather because my paternal grandfather died before I was born. My paternal grandmother was extremely liberal. When she was alive, her bedroom was full of books such as "Fear of Flying," "Roots" and Kurt Vonnegut novels, she was openly pro-choice, and she liked Bill Clinton. She worked in a factory as a teenager during WWII, and then later her husband died when she was still extremely young, so she entered the workforce again in order to support her young family. This might be why she was so open-minded. However, I also heard stories about how she demanded that my paternal grandfather treat her with respect before he died. I just know that she did not stand for much of the Archie-Bunkerish behavior that was frequently associated with her era.

[PenforPrez]

One of the things that has bothered me lately is the number of times that I have been told that my grandfather was part of a different generation. I know that he had a hard life, but I am tired of hearing excuses for his behavior. I heard a lot of excuses at his recent funeral. I think that the endless excuses about his life is what angers me the most right now. Last weekend I wrote a letter to him in which I pretty much told him off. Nobody else will see this letter, but I am feeling better now.

There's a black historian I'm fond of who once noted: "I lose patience with the argument that because of someone's time, his limitations are therefore excusable or even praiseworthy. It is not true that it was impossible in that time and place (referring to the Civil War) to look any higher."

I've never fully agreed with the first part. Most people are products of their own time. Those who rise above that are called "visionaries" and generally make the history books.

I'm not excusing my father's ideology because of his upbringing at all. That's just how he is. At the tender age of 81, he's making a good step forward by planning to vote for Obama. I'll be very proud of him when he does. :)

I think you hit on an amazing idea by writing a letter to him to express how you feel. I metaphorically respond to my father by trying to live my life by a higher standard. I don't drink, and a lot of the reason I don't is seeing what my parents (both of whom used to drink heavily) went through in the early-to-mid 80's.

Let me start off by saying that I am really lucky to have the parents that I have. My father is a wonderful father and he has always treated my mother with love and respect, and I am fortunate to have him as the male role model in my life.

I have more trouble with my mother, really. My mother has become (at almost age 61) the stereotypical crazy old Southern woman. She calls me every day to make sure I'm OK; God forbid I should ever have left home. Having her on vacation drove me nuts. She nearly ordered for me in a restaurant, and I just wanted to go absolutely ballistic right then and there. It took all of my self-control to not do so.

I never realized how badly I needed to leave home until I actually did. :p Hindsight is 20/20.

However, when I was young I used to watch my grandfather verbally abuse my grandmother. He liked an audience, and so he would be as much of a jerk that he could be when my family came to visit. When I was young he would purposely drop racial slurs and front of me and my sisters to see if he could get any kind of reaction out of us or our parents. I remember many, many dinner conversations at my grandparents' house that seemed to be a challenge for my grandfather as to how many times he could use the N-word in one story. During various dinner conversations, we had to be quiet while he ripped on this or that ethnic group or religion. In most of my memories of him, he is angry or bitter about something or someone.

My father has a slightly overblown sense of dignity and manners. He'll never be rude to friends or guests or relatives who come to visit. He believes that being out in public requires a certain stiff presence. But around people he knows, he will speak his mind if it comes up. He still uses the n-word and "dago" and "f----t" with alarming frequency, and still believes that Jews have complete control over Hollywood and the banking system.

I really pity the man. I know from personal experience how dead wrong he is about these groups of people. But I don't try to dissuade him; it's a waste of time.

From the time that I was fifteen until I got married, he asked me every time that I saw him whether I had a boyfriend yet, and later he asked me if I had a husband yet.

The only other thing about my father that truly bothers me is his concern over my sex life (or lack thereof). I've mentioned before about the time he asked my mother if I was gay cause I apparently don't date a lot. :( My father was in Europe at the end of World War II. That was the most fertile dating market in all of history; he had literally an entire continent of willing women.

I'm not a victorious GI Joe looking for sexual conquest. I don't want to serve in the Army. I get nervous using a sharp knife in my own kitchen. I'm just not that way.

I have been angry at him since his recent death, because I never got the chance to tell him when he was alive how upset he made me. My parents never talked back to him, and I was expected to never talk back to him either. I think that my mother was afraid of him, and it was for this reason that she never called him out on his behavior. My father didn't either, because he is married to my mom and he wanted to keep the peace with her. Nonetheless, I think that it was irresponsible of my parents that they used to let him use all of the racial slurs that he did (or speak to my grandmother the way that he did) in front of me and my sisters when we were very young.

I feel like my father was irresponsible for doing the same thing. I fought for many years to overcome my father's way of thinking, and it's still something I struggle with. But I try to feel that by following my own path and my own values, I'll help to heal what my father may have damaged. :)

my uncle can be worse with that stuff actually, so you have to look at the bright side sometimes.....neither of them are bad people by any means, it's just a little misunderstanding most of the time.....

I have an uncle who proudly declares himself a fine Republican (Democrats are ungodly, according to him :rolleyes:) and a God-fearing Christian conservative. Yet, he's openly stated his belief that blacks should be re-enslaved. I think he takes the story of Canaan from Genesis a little too literally.

Anybody who thinks America is post-racism needs to come to rural Missouri and meet some of my relatives. :googly:

Paul

[vivo]

paul- your father is perhaps one of the few remaining "Suthun" democrats. jk


why is your father voting for obama?

pretty obvious from the dem primary that this country is nowhere near post racism.

[Bocheezu]

I figured this was more of a "how your parents effect your adult life" kind of thread, so that's what I'm posting about.

My dad was a very antisocial, reclusive guy. Our family in general was very antisocial. I compare my upbringing to how my cousin is raising his kids. In his case, he has people over literally every day. Their house is the main gathering place for the neighborhood children, and my cousin's kids always have friends over until the time they go to bed. This is completely different than my household growing up, because we never had anybody over and I always had to go to my friend's houses, and that was just the couple hours between when school got out and dinnertime. I never hung out with them after dinner. I don't know what "normal" is, but I imagine it's something inbetween.

Sometimes I think my dad scared a lot of kids, because the guy literally never smiled and really never said anything. I'll never forget the one time a friend from college and I made a surprise visit to my house on a Friday (school was about an hour away and I rarely visited home on the weekends). We were in town because we had to drive my other friend home for a wedding. Anyway, we walk in the door completely unannounced and my dad looked like he wanted to kill us on the spot. He never introduced himself to my friend, never even looked at him really, just said a muffled "hello" and went back to watching the news (which he was obsessive about). My mom got home from work about 15 mins later and is, of course, happy as hell to see us, absolutely thrilled to meet my friend, and is immediately offering to get a pizza despite being tired as hell from a long week of work. The whole situation was just weird and I'll never forget the ride home back to school and the first thing my friend said was that "your mom is awesome, but your dad seems like a real asshole." And I really couldn't contest his point. It just seemed so funny how that visit was like a microcosm of my childhood growing up.

Either way, I'm an antisocial guy now. I've never been one to make excuses for anything, but it is difficult to break free of an antisocial life I seem predestined to have. How do you rise above it? I really have no idea. I just try to mimic my cousin's outgoing attitude, but it's not easy and I don't have some of the avenues of friendship that he has available to him (mainly beer in a fridge, which seems to be a very popular thing to have).

EDIT: spelling

[PenforPrez]

paul- your father is perhaps one of the few remaining "Suthun" democrats. jk

why is your father voting for obama?

Dad's more of a blue-collar New Deal economic values Democrat who never fell for the whole Reagan Democrat bit. Dad's certainly an old-school Southern Democrat. The only time in 16 elections he never voted for a Democratic Presidential nominee was when he voted for George Wallace in 1968. Which my father is still very proud of. Dad's always been pro-choice, pro-gun and leans towards gay marriage (despite using vulgar language in reference to homosexuals). Dad voted against Missouri's same-sex marriage ban, which made me smile. :)

Dad is voting for Obama because political ideology is trumping even his lifelong racism. My father hates Republicans with an unrepentant passion, and he (as a lifelong union member) especially despised Reagan. I grew up with eight years of daily vulgar tirades about how Reagan was ruining the country. I feel the same way about GWB, so that's a shared experience.

He doesn't like McCain and thinks McCain would be a third Bush term, so he'll vote for Obama out of Democratic loyalty and sort of a realization that this is a new era in American politics. I'm convinced he realizes that, but he'll NEVER admit it. But Dad also likes Obama's proposal to talk to Iran, North Korea, etc. Dad has always been against the Iraq war, and he agrees with the argument that there is nothing wrong in just sitting down and talking to them. My father has always seemed inflexible, but he can be ruthlessly pragmatic.

I don't know what "normal" is, but I imagine it's something inbetween.

That's the problem I have with my family, because my entire family is atypical. I'm 28, my father's 81. I have a half-sister I've never met whose older than my mother, and a niece and a nephew older than me. That's just on my father's side. My mother's family quirks could fill volumes. She's from Louisiana; enough said. :rolleyes: Not the same atypical, but you get the idea.

I've never been one to make excuses for anything, but it is difficult to break free of an antisocial life I seem predestined to have. How do you rise above it?

I'm trying to live my own life and my own way of thinking. It's my own way of trying to break free from all of my father's issues. My father's racism leads me to be very sensitive on that topic. My father lived the quintessential 50's and 60's lifestyle--nice home in the suburbs, new cars, frequent trips to the Rockies to go hunting, anything he wanted. So I rebel against it at a time when such a lifestyle is so embellished as to be absurd.

What I'm trying to say in a long-winded way is that you just have to do things your own way. I have a lot of social anxiety, and I try to tackle that a little bit every day. Just talking to someone at the gas station is a step in the right direction. :) It sounds like you want to go a different path. Don't hesitate.

Paul

[ebruening]

So what do I do now that I've realized this? What kind of tangible steps can I take now to rise above this?

Paul

Paul, I'm not going to try to give advice on this, because I'm the worst person in the world when it comes to forging my own identity, in spite of my parents' misgivings about "who I've become." However, I can sympathize with what you're going through.

As I've mentioned before, my parents are pretty controlling of my sister and me. Hell, they picked out her first post-college apartment for her, without consulting her.

Because I'm not "in line" with their beliefs - I'm an agnostic from a staunchly Catholic family who, in a month, is marrying an avowed atheist in a civil ceremony - they are convinced that my life is complicating theirs. It has cost me lots of tears, and months of fruitless pleading with my fiance to marry at a time and in a manner more conducive to my parents' beliefs, for me to realize that it's not my job to make them happy. THEY decide whether or not they are happy. I know who I love, and I know who I want to be with, and if they can't accept that, it's not my problem. I'm a good person, I pay my taxes, I support myself, and I haven't asked for anything from them, other than for them to be there at my wedding.

My parents aren't bad people. I know that they love me, but they don't like my lack of spiritual beliefs, and they don't like who I'm marrying, for the simple fact that he has no spiritual beliefs, either. My fiance has always been polite to my parents, but because of the differences in their beliefs, neither my parents nor my fiance feel comfortable around each other.

What I'm trying to say is that I think there's a real difference between loving someone, and not liking certain things about them. I know they love me, but I'd be lying if I said that things between my family and me weren't incredibly tense over the last year. I feel badly that they can't accept my choices, but I also know what's right for me isn't always the easiest choice to make.

[erika36]

I'm sorry that you're having issues with your father. I, too, have issues with my father. I won't go into details or anything, that's a long story, lol. But I guess what helps me is that he's not around so I don't think about him much. I know I don't know you or what is the best solution for you, but I'm thinking it might do you good to get away from his negativity a bit. I don't know your living situation or anything. But sometimes when you don't spend so much time with a negative person, it becomes easier to deal with them when you do. :)

[PenforPrez]

I went to visit my parents yesterday. Dad was very helpful; I had a heavy load to bring into the house when I got there, and he helped me get it in. He was very upbeat and happy to see me. Strangely, my father is never happier than when I go to see him. We watched the last part of the Cardinals game together, we watched Sanford and Son (Dad LOVES that show, and if I'm honest, I do too), and we had a good time.

See, this is why I cannot view my father as a bad person, and I really don't want to. He can be like this so often, but he just has that irritable, crusty side that he can't suppress. Like when we went on vacation, and Dad went as berserk as he gets. I prefer to think of my father like he was yesterday, but he's just not like that all the time. Maybe I'm asking for too much.

Paul

[vivo]

I went to visit my parents yesterday. Dad was very helpful; I had a heavy load to bring into the house when I got there, and he helped me get it in. He was very upbeat and happy to see me. Strangely, my father is never happier than when I go to see him. We watched the last part of the Cardinals game together, we watched Sanford and Son (Dad LOVES that show, and if I'm honest, I do too), and we had a good time.

See, this is why I cannot view my father as a bad person, and I really don't want to. He can be like this so often, but he just has that irritable, crusty side that he can't suppress. Like when we went on vacation, and Dad went as berserk as he gets. I prefer to think of my father like he was yesterday, but he's just not like that all the time. Maybe I'm asking for too much.

Paul
sounds like red foreman from that 70's show. i wonder if the men of that time were just like that.

[PenforPrez]

Over to my mother for a moment. How can I get her to stop calling me about twice a day? And she wants to know everything I'm doing. What did I eat, what am I doing tonight? And she acts like everything I do is a big deal.

I wish I had somebody else to talk to on the phone. But she's the only person who ever calls me. :(

Paul

[wordsmith]

You can't get her to stop calling you.

You can, however, answer only as often as you prefer. And you can control the length of the conversation, as well.

[WorkInProgress]

You can't get her to stop calling you.

You can, however, answer only as often as you prefer. And you can control the length of the conversation, as well.

Agreed.

[PenforPrez]

I flat out told my mother today that where I'm going is none of her business. My mother dared to say that it was.

"What if I need to get a hold of you?"

"I'll have my phone with me. You can call me."

What the hell gives her the right to think that?? :mad:

Paul

[WorkInProgress]

1) The fact that she's your mother.

2) The fact that you usually tell her.

Not saying it's justified, just saying why she would think to ask. She'll get over it.

[wordsmith]

Just keep reiterating that she doesn't actually need to know your whereabouts in order to get a hold of you (mine does, I really don't carry a cell). She'll deal.

[PenforPrez]

I was talking to my aunt in Pennsylvania a little bit ago, and she said a lot of the same. She said she's done the same thing as a mother. Of course, one of her daughters is living with her again. :rolleyes:

There's just some things I don't want my parents to know. If they knew I've been invited to party in some bad neighborhoods, they would just lose it. Last week, a guy living a half-mile from me held up a 7-Eleven, shot two cops and a fireman (killed the fireman) and then killed himself while his house was burning down. My mother is still freaking out. Never mind that never happens in this part of town.

I try not to worry about it. If it comes to pass that I get caught in the crossfire of a drug war (which doesn't happen in this part of town [or most of the city], but you never know), then it's just my time. My life insurance will take it from there. Mom worries about that all the time. Never mind I walk by myself through the city all the time, and nothing ever happens.

My parents just don't get it. I love the city, and I'll be proud to pay my earnings tax to the city at the end of the year. I'm probably the only person who wants to pay taxes to the convoluted bureaucracy that is the St. Louis city government. I'm weird that way. :rolleyes:

Paul

[AshleyJordan]

She'll have to learn how to adapt. If my (totally overbearing) mother was able to accept that I was staying in NYC after 9/11, etc., your mom will deal. She can't change it, so she'll have to adapt. It sounds a little cold, but it's really that simple.

ETA: She doesn't even have to "get" it, she just has to let go.

[PenforPrez]

She'll have to learn how to adapt. If my (totally overbearing) mother was able to accept that I was staying in NYC after 9/11, etc., your mom will deal. She can't change it, so she'll have to adapt. It sounds a little cold, but it's really that simple.

ETA: She doesn't even have to "get" it, she just has to let go.

That's the way I see it. It's only been five months. It seems longer, especially because it snowed the day I moved (which has been the good omen I thought it was :)). One of the few good things about gas at nearly $4 a gallon is that I can't afford to go visit them very often, so they have to deal, basically. With rent and food, I'm actually saving about $60 a month over the 800 mile a week commute I was doing. :)

Paul

[wordsmith]

When I was living and working in my hometown as an adult (not living with my parents, but living near enough by that I saw them frequently throughout the week), I was also doing a lot of online dating. My mom was hurt, at first, that I never told her about any upcoming dates, but I was very upfront that I knew all she'd do was worry, if she knew (she was always very nervous about blind date type situations and my safety). It helped set her at ease that I always told SOMEbody, typically my sister or my best friend, where I was going to be and the name of the person I was going to be with. But there was no point in telling her; what she didn't know, she couldn't stew on.

[PenforPrez]

I can't even talk to my parents about dating. I just find it too embarrassing.

[wordsmith]

I've always been pretty open with my mom about dating. My dad, nah, he's not intersted in interpersonal relationships, period.

[PenforPrez]

As I've said before, my father once asked my mother if I was gay cause I wasn't seeing anybody. It's too much pressure from both of them. :(

Paul

[wordsmith]

A lot of guys who are single a long time get that from family, believe it or not. It's a pretty old school perspective.

[vinsanity]

LOL if your dad ever asks you that himself, tell him that if you were gay, you would in fact be dating people -- other guys.

[wordsmith]

Seriously, every gay guy I know has a WAY more active dating life than the straight guys I know.

[Bocheezu]

I actually had a setup if my dad ever asked me that -- I would have done the whole "I suck dicks for money," "I'm the best piece of ass in three states" routine from American Beauty. He never asked, though.

[PenforPrez]

Seriously, every gay guy I know has a WAY more active dating life than the straight guys I know.

That's strange because I have a close friend here that's gay, and he had trouble getting dates here in St. Louis. He met his current boyfriend in Kansas City. :rolleyes:

Paul

[PenforPrez]

Took my father to the baseball game on Saturday. My father is just not as strong as he once was, and he didn't do well with the walking at the ball park. But I didn't know it was that much walking, and I didn't know where the elevator was. I didn't know what else to do, so I kept leading the way. :)

Dad got a tad weak, and actually fell when we got to our row. :( Oh my God, I was so scared! But me and another fan helped him up, and he was alright after he rested. He scratched up his arm a little, and his back hurt. I just kept a close eye on him; he didn't seem to be in a dire medical emergency. He was a lot better today; he was more sore from the walking.

I just didn't know what to do. A couple of years ago, Dad was having trouble swallowing, and he actually starting choked during lunch at home one day. I just got this troubled feeling and wanted to cry cause I didn't know what to do. Fortunately, my mother knew how to do the Heimlich, and Dad was fine.

Dad's 81, but he's not feeble. He's still very mentally sharp, and walks and talks very well. He's just not used to a lot of walking at one time. I don't want to treat the man as if he's a feeble octogenarian, because he's not. The man still commands strength and respect. He just can't do everything he used to.

But I felt so guilty. I felt responsible. I bought these tickets for Dad for Father's Day. This was my gift to him, and he had really looked forward to going. I got him out of the house to go to the game.

Logically, it couldn't have been helped. Dad told me so this morning. He said, "You did the best you could." But, he's at a point in his life where he can take care of himself, but it doesn't hurt to keep an eye out.

I could never forgive myself if I was ever responsible for causing any sort of medical issue with him. I love my Dad, despite everything he and I have gone through. He's my father, and he does care about me, and he means well.

Paul

[kellybeen18]

Paul,

Your father and mine sound very similar! Maybe your old man and my old man should get together and go bowling....

It's very strange that I took my dad to a baseball game for Father's Day too. Hmmm. There must be something cosmic going on here.

Anyway, I know what you mean about having a parent who could be very difficult to grow up with, but I've also realized that he has helped make me the person I am today. I don't like to admit it, but I'm a lot like my father, just more understanding (I hope). For a long time we couldn't even be in the same room together, but since I've grown up and moved out on my own we can actually have a decent conversation occassionally (when he speaks at all). It is amazing how we can see things so differently once we become adults.

[PenforPrez]

Paul,

Your father and mine sound very similar! Maybe your old man and my old man should get together and go bowling....

I like that idea. :) My father's never been bowling a day in his life. My 79 year old uncle in PA still bowls, though. Quite well, too. :)

It's very strange that I took my dad to a baseball game for Father's Day too. Hmmm. There must be something cosmic going on here.

For older people, baseball is a really big thing. Especially if they lived in a major baseball town, which there's few places where baseball is bigger than in St. Louis. During the 40's, the Cardinals won the World Series three times in five seasons ('42, '44, '46), and I know that was a really big deal to my father at the time.

I love the Cardinals, but my father has witnessed nearly the entire history of the team. Dizzy Dean was a big star when my father was born. :rolleyes: Dad remembers so many players before my time: Stan Musial, Red Schoendist, Bob Gibson, Al Hrbosky, Bruce Sutter. We get to watch Albert Pujols now, but it's not the same. It's almost a way to life to my father.

It is amazing how we can see things so differently once we become adults.

People get older, and they do change. For example, it was only two years ago that my father and I were out in the woods, busting up wood for the winter. Dad was almost as good with a splitting maul at 79 as he was at 59. But now, he just can't do it. That kind of thing results in a different outlook.

Paul

[kellybeen18]

Did you ever see The Breakfast Club?! :p

[PenforPrez]

No I haven't, sadly. :redface:

[PenforPrez]

Lately, I've taken everybody's advice and simply ignored most of my mother's phone calls. I did in DC; I was there to enjoy myself and represent the company, not talk to my mother. :rolleyes:

One thing bothers me about that. My mother is the only person who ever calls me. :(

Paul

[drummer]

One thing bothers me about that. My mother is the only person who ever calls me. :(



That always happens that when I'm waiting for a call back from a girl, like, three hours later I'll finally get a call and I'll get so excited, but then I realize it's my mom reminding me I have a dentist appointment next week or something like that.