how much is too much

[fearlesss]

How debt would your s/o have to in order for you not to consider marrying them?

[bleepbloop]

so interesting for you to bring this up b/c my SO and I have currently been having some issues with debt. I'm extremely type A about pretty much everything, but especially my finances. I don't think I can really put a number on how much is too much, however I think there comes a point when you realize whether your SO and you are on the same page in terms of finances.

At the moment, my SO is spending way more than he is making, and he's not really caring how badly his credit is effected, even if it means that a little later down the line he and I can't get married and buy a house together b/c his credit is shot. This is too much for me. So I've stopped helping him and his debt is now totally his own responsibility (as it should be, but it's hard to see your SO struggling and not help if you can). I think it's all a matter of having similar goals financially. It is definitely very important to have open communication about money, though.

[wordsmith]

I think the amount of debt is not so much the issue as what the person is or isn't doing to address the debt.

It can be challenging enough to build a future with somebody even with a solid financial platform.

[WorkInProgress]

I agree with Words.

Attitudes about debt, financial responsibility, financial planning, etc. are very important to discuss/work through as a couple.

I really don't think I'd develop a relationship linking my financial future with somebody who has a completely opposite view. Somebody who displays the financial irresponsibility you describe, OP, would not be for me.

[and1grad]

I think the amount of debt is something of a reflection of the attitude towards it so I'd be hesitant if the person has SIGNIFICANT debt. It would probably be wise to wait until someone had addressed it before marrying them.

[wordsmith]

What amount of debt is "significant" is pretty subjective, though.

To somebody who didn't take out any loans for schooling, say, another person's student loan debt may be "significant," but does having borrowed money from the government to obtain a degree really scream, "I have an irresponsible attitude regarding money management and don't see to my obligations!!!!!"? Nah.


To me, the nature of the debt says more about a person (attitude and priority-wise, anyway) than the level of debt in some cases. Somebody having $28,000 in student loan debt and a $7,000 car note is different than somebody who owes $35,000 in credit cards and backed up bills.

I fail to see how educational debt is a predictor of money-managing attitudes on its own, whereas consumer debt may well be.

I presume this thread was started with consumer debt in mind. I've always felt that if somebody wants to dog me/judge me/ decide I'm not worth having a relationship with due to what I spent on my education, they can pretty much kiss my ass.

[WorkInProgress]

I fail to see how educational debt is a predictor of money-managing attitudes on its own, whereas consumer debt may well be.

I presume this thread was started with consumer debt in mind. I've always felt that if somebody wants to dog me/judge me/ decide I'm not worth having a relationship with due to what I spent on my education, they can pretty much kiss my ass.

As a general rule, I agree. However, depending on some particulars of student loan debt (just how much money we're talking about, why so much money, what the person did to minimize the amount of debt incurred, whether the degree was finished, etc.), I might also be wary.

[and1grad]

I do agree that what is considered significant is relative. I also agree that the nature of the debt is significant. That said, the person's ability to address the debt could be a concern.

[wordsmith]

That said, the person's ability to address the debt could be a concern.

Always, IMO.

[winneythepooh7]

It would totally depend on the type of debt the person has vs. what they are doing to pay it off/avoid creating even MORE debt.


My only debt I carry personally is my student loan debt and I am sure if I posted how much it is on here, I'd get more than one raised eye or two.

However, it is completely managable for my personal (not shared) budget.

I know people on the other hand who have at least half of what I owe in student loan debt, on store credit cards, and they STILL go out several times per week on a big shopping spree for things they do not need on same credit cards, live beyond their means to begin with (ie. living paycheck to paycheck and bought a house in an area they cannot afford), and don't have a really good job/education to begin with that will carry them very far in the future to be able to tackle some of this debt with a higher paying job.

The second would definitely be a deal breaker for me. Especially if my S.O. was like this, and I was the reverse towards $$$$$, which happens.

[Bocheezu]

To me, the nature of the debt says more about a person (attitude and priority-wise, anyway) than the level of debt in some cases. Somebody having $28,000 in student loan debt and a $7,000 car note is different than somebody who owes $35,000 in credit cards and backed up bills.

Yeah, agree 100%. Student loans, car payments, these things are sometimes necessary and expected. Credit card debt = no no no no no. I could handle an SO with a little maybe, but thousands and thousands of CC debt means you have no idea how to handle your finances, which is the exact opposite type of wife that I'd want.

Oh yeah, and this commerical comes to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM832fUqZ0I

[wordsmith]

Somebody with credit card debt who is in the process of repairing their credit could also be somebody who made mistakes in the past and learned from them, but the cleanup takes time. I wouldn't write somebody off who was taking proactive steps to dig out of debt. It doesn't necesssarily mean that because you were irresponsible with money at age 20, you always will be.

[winneythepooh7]

Somebody with credit card debt who is in the process of repairing their credit could also be somebody who made mistakes in the past and learned from them, but the cleanup takes time. I wouldn't write somebody off who was taking proactive steps to dig out of debt. It doesn't necesssarily mean that because you were irresponsible with money at age 20, you always will be.

Agreed. But if they are still in heavy CC debt and still using their credit cards, especially on foolishness, I'd be a lot more wary.

[AllisonD]

My SO has over $100,000 in debt from law school but it has never changed the way I feel about her. I would never consider not being with her because of her debt. She pursued a dream and it came with a heavy price tag, but she has no credit card debt. We can swing it even if it means living at home for a year to pay off a huge chunk of it together.

[Chilehead]

Whatever you can handle TOGETHER. When you get married, you are marrying the person you love--you "inherit" everything else that goes with them, just as they "inherit" everything (positive and negative) that comes with you. You and your spouse must handle this issue of debt together. I strongly suggest that you set a time aside to formally converse about both of your views concerning tough issues: debt, children, time at work, other fiscal responsibilities, time with extended family, etc. Most importantly, if you do get married, make your spouse a higher priority than yourself. I speak from experience of 6 years of a great marriage to my wife. Love wants what is best for their partner. I recommend both of you read the book, "His Needs, Her Needs" to avoid bumps in your marriage down the road. Take care.

[Samwell]

I'm with the crowd, it seems: If the debt is for something like school, medical bills or old mistakes they're actively correcting it wouldn't cause me much concern (unless we're talking insane numbers).

It would be a factor, though, if they're not of the same mindset when it comes to living below your means and avoiding mindless consumerism, both of which are important to me. I came to this understanding by screwing up then having to fix it, so I wouldn't hold it against someone if they learned the same way. In a strange way I would almost prefer that my SO has some personal experience with financial hardship and isn't used to getting bailed out by parents, like some people I know.

[winneythepooh7]

Regarding student loan debt as well: In my opinion, I feel like my education benefits both me as well as my husband because I can always continue to advance up the career ladder as well as pay ladder primarily due to my education (pay and benefits effect us both positively).

Granted, not all degrees/people in general can boast this, so this is something that should also be factored into the equation.

I know people who were/are "professional students", who also took out thousands of dollars in private loans to "live a NYC lifestyle" or what not.........and their attitude towards money and finding a good paying job to pay off that debt really hasn't changed for the better. There's really a huge difference between the two.........

[AshleyJordan]

Some people might not agree with this suggestion, but I would say that if debt is a serious concern, you should strongly consider getting a pre-nup. ;)

[analogman]

Debt level (regardless of source) can say something about one's attitude towards money.

General thresholds in my mind are something like this:
4 times to 5 times the person’s annual income.
2 times the couple’s combined annual income.

If someone has debt in the range to 100 to 125K but is only making 25K, I'd say that's a bit of a problem. Even if this person owns a house, the recommended upper limit on house price to income is 3 times.

The 2 times combined annual salary of the couple factors in the ability of the couple to pay off the debt together. Let's say the person has 100K in debt and makes 25K but happens to be marrying someone who's making 75K. Suddenly that makes the 100K in debt much more manageable. However, excess debt on one party will impact the couple's financial flexibility and options.

Dating someone who makes 3X what one can pose some challenges which don't exist in a more financially equal relationship, but that's another topic altogether.

[wordsmith]

In a strange way I would almost prefer that my SO has some personal experience with financial hardship and isn't used to getting bailed out by parents, like some people I know.

Ditto. I don't think it's that strange.

[koolkat1980]

Well, I guess it depends on whether good debt or bad debt! Also the amount! It's also the person's attitude towards making improvements and being responsible about the debt.

[spiritedaway]

Just a thumbs up to your post. Marriage takes work, for sure, but people often forget that finances (or lack thereof if saddled in debt) is often one of the top stressors in marriage as well.

Debt level (regardless of source) can say something about one's attitude towards money.

General thresholds in my mind are something like this:
4 times to 5 times the person’s annual income.
2 times the couple’s combined annual income.

If someone has debt in the range to 100 to 125K but is only making 25K, I'd say that's a bit of a problem. Even if this person owns a house, the recommended upper limit on house price to income is 3 times.

The 2 times combined annual salary of the couple factors in the ability of the couple to pay off the debt together. Let's say the person has 100K in debt and makes 25K but happens to be marrying someone who's making 75K. Suddenly that makes the 100K in debt much more manageable. However, excess debt on one party will impact the couple's financial flexibility and options.

Dating someone who makes 3X what one can pose some challenges which don't exist in a more financially equal relationship, but that's another topic altogether.

[and1grad]

Debt level (regardless of source) can say something about one's attitude towards money.

General thresholds in my mind are something like this:
4 times to 5 times the person’s annual income.
2 times the couple’s combined annual income.

If someone has debt in the range to 100 to 125K but is only making 25K, I'd say that's a bit of a problem. Even if this person owns a house, the recommended upper limit on house price to income is 3 times.

The 2 times combined annual salary of the couple factors in the ability of the couple to pay off the debt together. Let's say the person has 100K in debt and makes 25K but happens to be marrying someone who's making 75K. Suddenly that makes the 100K in debt much more manageable. However, excess debt on one party will impact the couple's financial flexibility and options.

Dating someone who makes 3X what one can pose some challenges which don't exist in a more financially equal relationship, but that's another topic altogether.
Totally agree.

[oldmanwinter]

If someone has debt in the range to 100 to 125K but is only making 25K, I'd say that's a bit of a problem.
Your post made me curious about farm debt vs. income. Huge debt is a normal fact of life out in the country. The only numbers I could find were from 2004, but the average farm income at that time was $27,000 and the average debt was $207,000. Crazy.

[star_gazer]

I agree that it depends on how the person is addressing the debt. I do not view school loans as an irresponsible debt like I would credit cards. If they have a lot of CC debt and do not take the steps to pay them back, then I would not want share much finance-wise later on. I would make arrangements to keep certain things in my name only to prevent him from ruining my credit. On the other hand, I wouldn't date someone that irresponsible. My father was irresponsible. I watched him ruin my mom's credit before they divorced, so I know how important it can be.