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kork
12-10-2008, 04:06 PM
First post of mine so bear with me.

Relationship/Life History

I was a relatively quiet guy in highschool... Not a geek, but not a sports star either...Bish average student. For all intensive purposes... I was blend in with the crowd normal.

I went to parties, but didn't have a girlfriend. I liked some girls but never had the mansticles to pony up and ask any out for fear of rejection.

Then just after my 18th birthday, a girl I worked with (25 yo and engaged) told me she had feelings for me. She called off the engagement with her boyfriend before we did anything intimate.

We never dated though. Our relationship was secretive and then long distance for the first 3 years because my parents forbid it. Too much of an age difference.

When I was in College, I worked hard and studied hard. I DID NOT party nor did I go out drinking and stuff. I was in a committed relationship and instead focused less on the relationship building / fun side of College and instead focused on graduating at the top of my class.

And that I did. I had the top GPA and upon graduation, landed a job with a decent starting salary. I was 25. At this time, I made a few goals which included financial goals which I wanted to meet by my 30th Birthday.

I've met ALL of my financial goals and for all intensive purposes, now earn an excellent living. Enough that my wife doesn't need to work so she can stay home and be our daughters mom...

Today

I'm celebrating my 30th birthday next week. I am now a father (second one arriving in June) and a husband and my wife is 37 years old. I'm beginning to look back and it's becoming painfully obvious that while I was so busy planning my success with money and building my life with my wife, that I totally forgot to have 20's style fun along the way. I've been drunk once (at home with a couple friends), never been stoned, high or had a one night stand...

I've never been intimate with anyone other than my wife which is now bothering me a great deal. I've never been dumped, I've never been hurt... And I have no clue what it's like to be intimate with another woman.

Maybe I got it right the first time? Maybe I should feel lucky that I've been successful? I look at my wife who's 7 years older and who had 7 years of bar-hopping fun before she met me...

I never went to the bars or other stuff that seems pretty standard with people my age... Perhaps in 5 years when I'm sitting on my paid for home and a bank account at 7 digits it will become clear to me that I made the right choices... but right now, I feel lonely, confused, anxious, very sad and full of regret.

I just needed to vent my thoughts... Not sure anyone can help me... but maybe I can help some others with my own experience.

Tayl405
12-10-2008, 04:28 PM
Why don't you start going out more with your wife? My boyfriend is my favorite person to go out drinking with. The bar-hopping to meet people part sucks (IMO), but just going out with friends and having some drinks and dancing is so much fun. You don't have to stop after a certain age (although maybe stick with corner bars instead of clubs). Or maybe you and your wife can experiment with different wines? Mmmm, wine...

Don't worry too much about it (although I supposed that's hard for someone in a totally different boat to say). You are very lucky to have a happy family and a good job. Do you know much money I spend on going out? I'd probably be able to have a house if I didn't go out as much! So good choice there :)

jrwilheim
12-10-2008, 04:49 PM
Dude, you're like my polar opposite.

I never wanted the 20-something lifestyle, by which I mean not being settled, not really having a home and all of that. I just sort of ended up in that partly through bad choices and partly through bad circumstances.

What I really want is to come home and establish a normal, middle-class life in America. I really have no idea how to do it, though. Kind of wish my education had taught me something practical.

vinsanity
12-10-2008, 05:05 PM
Although you do have the life many people want for themselves, I do understand your regrets. The truth is that yes, you did make sacrifices to achieve what you have, but at the same time, others (I'll use myself as an example) have sacrificed our potential to have our fun in the moment. The important thing to think about here is that many of those moments were so fleeting, while the accomplishments you've made are lasting. I don't regret too many of the decisions I've made, but I could have definitely done better. And in the end, it's all about the family, and I don't doubt that you've made all the right decisions for them.

marion
12-10-2008, 05:36 PM
First post of mine so bear with me.

Relationship/Life History

I was a relatively quiet guy in highschool... Not a geek, but not a sports star either...Bish average student. For all intensive purposes... I was blend in with the crowd normal.

I went to parties, but didn't have a girlfriend. I liked some girls but never had the mansticles to pony up and ask any out for fear of rejection.

Then just after my 18th birthday, a girl I worked with (25 yo and engaged) told me she had feelings for me. She called off the engagement with her boyfriend before we did anything intimate.

We never dated though. Our relationship was secretive and then long distance for the first 3 years because my parents forbid it. Too much of an age difference.

When I was in College, I worked hard and studied hard. I DID NOT party nor did I go out drinking and stuff. I was in a committed relationship and instead focused less on the relationship building / fun side of College and instead focused on graduating at the top of my class.

And that I did. I had the top GPA and upon graduation, landed a job with a decent starting salary. I was 25. At this time, I made a few goals which included financial goals which I wanted to meet by my 30th Birthday.

I've met ALL of my financial goals and for all intensive purposes, now earn an excellent living. Enough that my wife doesn't need to work so she can stay home and be our daughters mom...

Today

I'm celebrating my 30th birthday next week. I am now a father (second one arriving in June) and a husband and my wife is 37 years old. I'm beginning to look back and it's becoming painfully obvious that while I was so busy planning my success with money and building my life with my wife, that I totally forgot to have 20's style fun along the way. I've been drunk once (at home with a couple friends), never been stoned, high or had a one night stand...

I've never been intimate with anyone other than my wife which is now bothering me a great deal. I've never been dumped, I've never been hurt... And I have no clue what it's like to be intimate with another woman.

Maybe I got it right the first time? Maybe I should feel lucky that I've been successful? I look at my wife who's 7 years older and who had 7 years of bar-hopping fun before she met me...

I never went to the bars or other stuff that seems pretty standard with people my age... Perhaps in 5 years when I'm sitting on my paid for home and a bank account at 7 digits it will become clear to me that I made the right choices... but right now, I feel lonely, confused, anxious, very sad and full of regret.

I just needed to vent my thoughts... Not sure anyone can help me... but maybe I can help some others with my own experience.

These are valid regrets indeed. From the post it seems like you have not articulated any of this to your wife, is that correct?

kork
12-10-2008, 09:18 PM
These are valid regrets indeed. From the post it seems like you have not articulated any of this to your wife, is that correct?

My wife knows everything... I've been feeling this way for 5 months. I've been on a midlife crisis forum for some time now and have had half the people telling me that what I'm going through is not a midlife crisis... the other half are saying "Sounds like it to me"...

So here I am, a much different person than I was in highschool. I'm no longer the skinny little average kid... My (now wife) was grown up when I met her and I was still growing up. Now I'm a 29 year old good-looking successful man... Not to brag because that's certainly not the intent... but I've got a pretty good overall offering.

Anyways, way back in the day I had issues with her previous relationships. I think is was a self confidence thing. I was 7 years younger, had ZERO experience in relationships and I was her rebound after getting out of an engagement...I was a highschool student, she'd been working fulltime for 8 years. Those are some pretty big shoes to fill.

So about 3 years later when we moved in together (I was 21, she was 28), I got over my wife's ex's and felt relatively secure about myself and my relationship. I came to terms with the idea that she would likely be the one I'd spend the rest of my life with and that she'd be my only lover.

But 3 months ago, 2 months after I started into my depression, anxiety, crisis crap, she was at a family event in a different city. I stayed at home to take care of our little girl while she was out for the weekend. The next day she told me that at 1:30am the night before, her sister, husband and her went to visit an ex-boyfriend to play cards.

I felt betrayed.

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but is it okay to visit ex-boyfriends (yes, she slept with him in the past) when your husband is taking care of your child?

Maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion, but we have open communication and she knows that it took me a long time to feel totally secure in our relationship... The worst part is that she told me that she thought I was over it so it would be okay.

4 years ago, she sat between two ex's at the head table at her sister's wedding. I was in the audience somewhere. I recall this guy leaning over and whispering something to her and her laughing. 5 years ago, it wasn't comfortable, but who am I to dictate the bride and grooms wedding party.

So on top of a number of different regrets, I feel utterly powerless because she went to visit an ex recently which is something I cannot do. She told me in retrospect, she knew she shouldn't go...

I've lost a lot of trust in my wife because of this. I know it's not a big deal, but because she's my one and only... her visiting an ex is a very sensitive area. The only way I can describe it is that it feels like she cheated on me (But I've never been cheated on so I don't know)...

wordsmith
12-10-2008, 09:24 PM
From what you describe, I'm not sure that I'd agree that it sounds like your wife cheated on you, so much as was socializing with groups of people on two separate occasions with former flames present. You might not like that, but that doesn't necessarily make it cheating, you know?

It sounds like you're feeling remorse yourself right now for experiences you ended up sidestepping in earlier years. If you're wanting out of your marriage, try and analyze if it's that, or if you're at some level looking for ways to make it about your wife betraying your trust. Do you have reason to suspect any infidelity, or is it just that your wife has been in the presence of exes, socially?

kork
12-10-2008, 09:41 PM
From what you describe, I'm not sure that I'd agree that it sounds like your wife cheated on you, so much as was socializing with groups of people on two separate occasions with former flames present. You might not like that, but that doesn't necessarily make it cheating, you know?


I know it's not cheating... I'm more or less describing the feeling. It's actually much more than single events. For example, one of her ex's rented a room from her mom a few years after they broke up and a number of others.



It sounds like you're feeling remorse yourself right now for experiences you ended up sidestepping in earlier years. If you're wanting out of your marriage, try and analyze if it's that, or if you're at some level looking for ways to make it about your wife betraying your trust. Do you have reason to suspect any infidelity, or is it just that your wife has been in the presence of exes, socially?


I have no reason to suspect infidelity and I think that I have these feelings because I'm likely projecting. The challenge that I have is that I don't understand the emotions involved with an ex and yet she tap dances on the border with little to regards as to how it affects me. I'm sure if I had similar experience to my wife, I'd be able to better understand the dynamics of failed relationships and becoming friendships, but unfortunately, I do not...

Which is why I'm asking if I'm being irrational?

BTW! I should mention that during my teens my parents divorced... Within 4 years, my mother had married my fathers, wife's ex-husband and my father had married my mothers, husbands ex-wife.

Bonus point to the first one who can figure that one out!

So I'm very sensitive to relationships going weird... I tend to think... if there was once a flame... Don't blow on it or feed it. Let it die.

marion
12-10-2008, 10:27 PM
Being successful & good looking is jolly marvellous (or so I hear...) & heaven forbid you should be ungrateful or dissatisfied with your wonderous lot in life but let's not spew forth anymore offensive cliches about gratitude & what not.

I honestly think you have justifiable reasons for your state of mind. Neither because your wife is allegedly rekindling her old flames & engaging in full-on relationship arsony (in your mind), nor because your parents had a few affairs or whatever but because you resent the fact that individuals have the experience behind them to reflect upon & use to inform their future state of mind. Even experience itself is not always the key, it's the thought processes that inevitably accompany it that matter, it just so happens that people fail to think/reflect/become self-aware of their own wankiness/stop taking themselves so seriously unless an experience triggers it.

What is your wife's response when you articulate your wretched state to her?

vinsanity
12-10-2008, 10:31 PM
BTW! I should mention that during my teens my parents divorced... Within 4 years, my mother had married my fathers, wife's ex-husband and my father had married my mothers, husbands ex-wife.

Bonus point to the first one who can figure that one out!

They swapped spouses?

Interesting. Ew.

wordsmith
12-10-2008, 10:44 PM
Could also be as simple as "grass is greener" syndrome.

marion
12-10-2008, 10:53 PM
& he has legit concern that the grass is indeed greener for the people with more experience.

marion
12-10-2008, 11:00 PM
& another thing & forgive the anal nature of this but it's not "for all intensive purposes" but "for all intents & purposes"...

wordsmith
12-10-2008, 11:03 PM
& he has legit concern that the grass is indeed greener for the people with more experience.

Eh, maybe, maybe not. If he had more experience, a whole host of other insecurities could then come up.

wordsmith
12-10-2008, 11:03 PM
& another thing & forgive the anal nature of this but it's not "for all intensive purposes" but "for all intents & purposes"...

Oh, you really don't want to start doing that unless you want somebody to start being seriously annoying about your punctuation, etc.

marion
12-10-2008, 11:08 PM
he did it twice & the tweed tosser in me had to whine out...

AsianGeek
12-11-2008, 12:17 AM
Your reasons aren't stupid, but at least now you are in a position to make the necessary changes to your life to make you happy. Many do not have that option open to them.

marion
12-11-2008, 12:40 AM
I've never been intimate with anyone other than my wife which is now bothering me a great deal.

I must confess your whole post is haunting me... it's invading my thoughts & causing me to ponder more than usual.

Anyway why does it bother you to such a degree that you've only had 1 lover? Is it just the old shag inadequacy/competition with the wife or what?

spiritedaway
12-11-2008, 01:22 AM
I must confess that post haunts me quite a bit as well. It seems like the OP has a good thing going on, but I guess it has to to do with the grass is greener on the other side (which is valid one given the age difference between the OP and his wife, the difference in experience, and the wife's (unintentional) insensitivity to the ex issue)

Personally, I don't understand why people keep in touch with exes (seems like a drama waiting to happen), but I suppose one could argue for it too.

OP, the past is the past. What do you want to happen now? You need to consider carefully since kids are involved. It sounds like recent events have triggered some sort of "crisis" mode in you. Is it you want to experience more of the party life, that you've only been with one person, or are you more upset by the fact that your wife met up with the ex? Or are you really struggling with some insecurity due to the fact that your wife has more experience than you? Or is it because you've been so focused on work that you feel like you've missed out on the "fun" stuff in your early-mid 20s? Or is it something as simple as better communication with your wife?

Anyway, best of luck. It may be a good idea to talk it out with a therapist.


I must confess your whole post is haunting me... it's invading my thoughts & causing me to ponder more than usual.

Anyway why does it bother you to such a degree that you've only had 1 lover? Is it just the old shag inadequacy/competition with the wife or what?

marion
12-11-2008, 02:13 AM
truly unsettling post - i wonder precisely what triggered this kind of reflection on the part of the person...

wordsmith
12-11-2008, 07:05 AM
Honestly, it kind of freaks me out and definitely saddens me when people are willing to forfeit a relationship over the desire to boost their numbers. Not saying this is or isn't what this post is about, just that that's something it brings to mind. It makes me sad.

marion
12-11-2008, 07:52 AM
The sexual curiosity is understandable & the frustration seriously comes through - the post elicits a lot of empathy & there seems to be a lot more to it than the grass is greener syndrome &/or trying to increase conquest numbers.

dubb
12-11-2008, 08:22 AM
I didnt read everyones replies, but listen dude you got it great right now, I would not feel sad at all if I was you.

Meeting your financial goals really should have been #1, because even if you wasted your time partying, in the end youd be even more depressed if you were broke, ask me, id know.

Dont worry about only being with your wife! you have to trust me because I was in the same sort of situation and fucked it up. I was with the perfect girl for me (basically a clone of me but female) and I fucked it up because she was with some guys before me and she was my first and I was insecure about it. needless to say im not with her anymore =/ and I still regret it.

and nothing is stopping you from goin out and havin fun, gettin drunk at the bar or smokin a few blunts with your friends or wife is never out of reach lol, and if your finances are sweet now you can take awesome vacations, get nice toys, ect.


you are really in a position to have the most fun now

kork
12-11-2008, 11:45 AM
They swapped spouses?

Interesting. Ew.

You got it!



Anyway why does it bother you to such a degree that you've only had 1 lover? Is it just the old shag inadequacy/competition with the wife or what?


I never used to and I don't think it's a competition with my wife. A long time ago, when I asked her about previous relationships, she had indicated that the one guy (Guy she went to see 3 months ago) was the best sex she'd ever had. She explained it was because it was situational. She thought a good friend was turning into her boyfriend. She slept with him and that was it... She was crushed.

So that may be the inadequacy part... Having my wife tell me that sex was better with another guy. Of course, after her telling me that years ago, I've tried to be the best. It's always about her... I'm never selfish and always put her before me.



Is it you want to experience more of the party life, that you've only been with one person, or are you more upset by the fact that your wife met up with the ex? Or are you really struggling with some insecurity due to the fact that your wife has more experience than you? Or is it because you've been so focused on work that you feel like you've missed out on the "fun" stuff in your early-mid 20s?



Yes, yes yes, yes and... yes.



truly unsettling post - i wonder precisely what triggered this kind of reflection on the part of the person...

There were two specific triggers.

1. My wife's 37th birthday. All of a sudden I thought. Holy $hit! 40 is right around the corner for you and I'm still not even 30!!! Age was never a factor before... but all of a sudden, WHAM!

2. A new friend asked me what I liked to do in my spare time and I didn't have a single answer... I realized that I really had no interests outside of work and being a father.

3. Wife visiting an ex was NOT a trigger, but it came 2 months after I entered my "crisis." Since then, it's very much been an area of insecurity and concern and I find myself wanting to rectify the issue. It's like 2 months into the crisis I was on my knees reaching out to her for help and she kicked me square in the nads!



Honestly, it kind of freaks me out and definitely saddens me when people are willing to forfeit a relationship over the desire to boost their numbers. Not saying this is or isn't what this post is about, just that that's something it brings to mind. It makes me sad.


I'm not willing to forfeit my relationship at all... Not at the point... but if years go by and I can't find resolve, I may have no choice.

I'm now seeing a therapist and am also on medication to help regulate serotonin levels (I've always had generalized anxiety but could usually keep it under control)

It's a funny thing... last month I was looking to purchase a $125k Mercedes to basically "Piss on my territory." The ex she went to visit runs some sort of an car shop...



Dont worry about only being with your wife! you have to trust me because I was in the same sort of situation and fucked it up. I was with the perfect girl for me (basically a clone of me but female) and I fucked it up because she was with some guys before me and she was my first and I was insecure about it. needless to say im not with her anymore =/ and I still regret it.

Okay, so you get where I'm coming from.

The issue is not that my wife has been with other people... The issue is that I can't get it out of my mind.

Logically I know the following:

Hindsight is 20/20. Using my grown up brain to judge my young activities is just a well disguised way of being cruel to myself. Based on what I knew then, I did the right thing. I did what felt right for me, based on what I knew then. I didn't go to parties because my understanding was that the end goal was to meet someone and start a relationship which would eventually turn into more... I was already in a relationship so why should I waste my time at parties? I'll study instead and spend time with my girlfriend.

But 10 years later, here I am rummaging through my past to uncover the truth about my regrets so that I can plot the next phase of life, and it appears that many of my regrets are those which I cannot do anything about without dire consequences... So I'm looking for the next best thing... Understand and listen to other people's experiences and points of view.

One thing that has helped me recently is I've been reading a book called the 5 languages of love. Basically, the process of "falling in love" is not love at all. It's a euphoric state that's designed to ensure the survival of the species... We do stupid things when we're in love and we're blind to all the negative aspects of our partner.... This stage lasts for 6 months to 2 years... After that, you're left with a love that can either grow or it will fade quickly.

But the feeling of "being in love" is extremely strong. I had it for nearly 4 years with my wife (Because we were long distance for 2 of those years). A month ago I became very aware that I'm not "in love" with my wife anymore.... it's the same ol' same ol'. Not exciting, no butterfly feelings, etc... And I miss that dearly. I feel an emptyness without it.

Tayl405
12-11-2008, 12:21 PM
I really think that you need to go out and have some fun. WITH your wife. I used to have a lot of issues with my SO's pasts (I still kinda of do but I've been working on it). But by creating experiences and making memories with my SO it's helped me move past it. Granted, we don't have kids, but we go out all the time and have so much fun. It doesn't have to be about "partying" or "getting drunk" but keeping an active social life.

Do you guys go on a lot of dates?

vinsanity
12-11-2008, 01:48 PM
See, I was the opposite during college. I transferred to a 4-year-university at age 22 after spending 3-1/2 years at a 2-year junior college, so I felt like I had alot of "college party life" to catch up with. On top of that, I was working 30 hours a week, so I was partying at every chance I had. My g/f at the time, on the other hand, was much more focused on getting good grades and going to grad school. In addition, she didn't like the fact that I was out partying while she was working on term papers. She also didn't like the people I was hanging out with.

Inevitably, we broke up right before I graduated, and regret started settling in as soon as it happened. I knew exactly what I had just thrown away, and was facing near-impossible odds of getting it back. During college, I would have scoffed at the idea of living in a cookie cutter house on Wisteria Lane, but admittedly, it's better than what I've ended up with. So 3 years later, my ex now has a master's degree and is doing the job she always wanted to do, while I'm still dwelling on the idea while working at the same job I took straight out of college. So yeah, that's how green my grass is.

Regarding your wife hanging out with her ex, try not to take it too much to heart. When my ex and I broke up, the one thing that I could still hope for was to go back to re-establishing the friendship we had before we dated. It really meant alot to me, and if it makes you feel better, we never seriously thought of getting back together. She's not the kind of girl who makes the same mistake twice :rolleyes: ;):

A couple more things:
It sounds like you definitely need to spend more quality time with your wife. A vacation seems to be in order. :)

Buying the $125k Benz is an awfully tempting idea, and I'd have a hard time resisting myself, but I also know first-hand that buyer's remorse sets in sooner when you buy more car than you originally planned for. Still love my car, though <3

Tayl405
12-11-2008, 01:55 PM
A vacation seems to be in order. :)

A vacation is a great idea. Just the two of you.

kork
12-11-2008, 03:02 PM
It's an amazing thing... 6 months ago my wife and I were shopping for our third home... We were looking to build a custom home theatre in the basement and have tons of square footage to live in...

I was completely satisfied in purchasing our 15-20 year home... A home that we could grow into... We were planning on our second child... I was relatively happy.

But then all this crap happened which was manufactured in my own brain.

BUT, my life is NOT a bad life... In fact, even looking at the blessings:

- Successful
- Educated
- Money
- Married
- Healthy Child and second on the way
- Never work overtime
- Second in command at the office... All the benefits of ownership without the headaches.
- 5 Minute commute to work.
- Good friends (Best friend from grade 3 is still my best friend).... Not a Bazillion friends (I don't understand how people can have 500+ friends on facebook, but whatever...starting to smell like myspace.)

And yet... At the end of the day, I dare to say that if I had the chance to do it all over again, I'd give it all up to experience the other side of the fence.

The vacation with just my wife is not really in the cards right now. We have nobody to take care of our child and with her pregnant, flying becomes complicated.

That said, I'm appreciating the comments from other posters. When I was in highschool I went to the dance clubs with friends during the all ages nights, went to house parties, stayed up with friends to the wee hours of the morning... But as soon as I met my Wife (then Girlfriend) I became fixated on her... and let the other stuff slide. Stopped going dancing, stopped going to clubs, stopped hanging out with friends, and even missed 26 days of school my final year in highschool. It's almost like I went from 18-25 overnight and now realize I missed and MISS the 7 years in the middle!

It really sucks to be in such a funk at my age... And now with children, I feel trapped trapped trapped. In fact, the only reason that we had children as early as we did was because my wife's doctor told her she should think about it soon due to her age.

Us having children was not because we wanted to... it's because logically it was the thing to do. We'd been together 9 years... I figured... one day. I'd want them... So logically, it made sense to move the process along...

One suggestion I have to people here... DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN UNTIL YOU AND YOUR PARTNER ARE BOTH READY! It changes life more than you can imagine.

I know I sound like I've got it good. But for everyone else on the other side who are living it up without knowing what they'll be doing for the next 20 years... aren't sure what their relationship status is, spend much of their disposable income on day-to-day living... etc... Trust me, it's just as bad having it all planned out!

wordsmith
12-12-2008, 12:29 AM
One suggestion I have to people here... DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN UNTIL YOU AND YOUR PARTNER ARE BOTH READY!


Golden words, my friend, golden words.

Of course, it complicates things when one party is ready and the other is not.

marion
12-12-2008, 04:23 AM
I continue to suffer feverish preoccupation with your post as it refuses to stop playing on my mind. I will endeavour to address some of its most pertinent points in the most pithy way possible:
I believe it when your wife says she had the best sex with her friend. There is something utterly euphoric when a friendship transcends that boundary.
The way you describe your feelings - sounds like a numb throbbing dull ache accompanied by a deep sense of wanting. Nothing in the corporeal/material world is capable of fully anaesthetising you against it - maybe takes the edge off temporarily but generally the going through the motions autopilot sense of meaninglessness remains even though all logical arguments suggest you should feel gratitude, satisfaction and general psychological well-being...
For you to genuinely get out of this trapped purgatory feeling (& one can not rationalise their way out of it) requires one to access part of their psyche, which only ever gets activated during intense seduction (hence the evolutionary psychology theories concerning love), psychedelic drugs and certain types of art. Maybe it's a London thing but in summary - sex, drugs & rock'n'roll...

fuzmiq
12-12-2008, 08:27 AM
And yet... At the end of the day, I dare to say that if I had the chance to do it all over again, I'd give it all up to experience the other side of the fence.


Wow. Well, that's really honest.

What is the "other side of the fence for you?" Just wondering.

At the end of the day though, you have what most people want or atleast think they want. (hmm) All the single people I know would love to be living a life similar to yours. I think even the playboys I know will one day settle down, maybe even especially them.

When I think of those "players" I know now, I really hope that they do settle down. Cause being a lonely forty something, driving down the highway with the top down, letting the wind blow on where their hair used to be, on their way home to a tv dinner and Sopranos reruns just sounds sad to me.

kork
12-12-2008, 11:23 AM
Wow. Well, that's really honest.

For good or for bad, I'm always very honest. No sense in tap dancing around what I feel. It is what it is...



What is the "other side of the fence for you?" Just wondering.


I should clarify... Not the complete other side of the fence. I wouldn't want to be a drug dealing, highschool dropout who's in trouble with the law... which would be the opposite. But rather, I'd find much more balance.

I would NOT have become involved with a woman 7 years older than me who was recently engaged. In hindsight, maybe 3-4 years later if our paths crossed again... but being a highschool student in a committed relationship with a woman who is already grown up and has experienced the perils of failed relationships, engagement, one-night stands and and getting pissed drunk only... well... love is blind.

My issues seem very much to revolve around that which I do not know and the Grass is Greener.


At the end of the day though, you have what most people want or atleast think they want. (hmm) All the single people I know would love to be living a life similar to yours. I think even the playboys I know will one day settle down, maybe even especially them.

That's the thing though... I settled down basically when I was 18. and now... less than a week to my 30th birthday, I look around and realize that while I was spending so much time making sure that I was creating a solid base and a good foundation, I missed part of the journey.

The emotion I think is similar to losing someone that you love. When you lose someone that you love, you feel a great sense of emptyness... The feeling can overcome you with emotion and fill up your eyes with tears. it's not that the person has passed away... but more that you know you'll never be able to see them again. it's the fact that you can never again experience their company... All you have to remember them by is your memories.

And that's where I am. I feel like my youth has now died and I'm just now realizing how important it was and how much of it I missed out on. Now that I'm married with children, I'll never again experience the "first kiss" or the "first touch" or the "butterflies in your stomach" feeling ever again. I only got to experience it once and it was a very amazing feeling. My wife had it 5 times... and as she describes it, the 5th time was the last time her heart could take it so she happy with everyday of what we have. She was ready to commit.

The fact that my wife is 7 years older just brings me that much further from that which I missed while I was younger.

I feel so down and depressed. I find no joy in anything anymore.

fuzmiq
12-12-2008, 11:45 AM
Kork, I understand what you mean better now.

I am sorry that you feel like your youth has passed you by.

Thirty is still young. Especially with the life that you lead, you have so many opportunities at your disposal.

Regardless of what has happened in the past (or what you wish would have happened instead), this is your life today. We aren't really talking about me here, but there are certainly things in my life that I wish were different. Trust me on that. But, wishing things were different usually just leaves me with a sense of melancholy, anxiety and emptiness...can't say that it has ever helped a situation.

From what you have posted about your life, you certainly seem to have a lot to be grateful for. But I know, like all of us, it is easy to focus on what's on the other side of the "fence."

kork
12-12-2008, 12:35 PM
Regardless of what has happened in the past (or what you wish would have happened instead), this is your life today. We aren't really talking about me here, but there are certainly things in my life that I wish were different. Trust me on that. But, wishing things were different usually just leaves me with a sense of melancholy, anxiety and emptiness...can't say that it has ever helped a situation.


The logical side of me completely agrees with you. Why focus on something that you can't change? unfortunately, I seem to be digging it up so that I can decide my next move is to "enjoy what I currently have" all the way to "Divorce my wife, get my own place and live the single life I dream of." At least then the regret won't be from wondering what could have been... it would be from making the wrong choices as many indicate. But this is really the last option...

Alas, I'd much rather find a place where I can be content with what I have and not be so wrapped up in what I don't have.

marion
12-12-2008, 04:07 PM
I should clarify... Not the complete other side of the fence. I wouldn't want to be a drug dealing, highschool dropout who's in trouble with the law... which would be the opposite. But rather, I'd find much more balance.

I would NOT have become involved with a woman 7 years older than me who was recently engaged. In hindsight, maybe 3-4 years later if our paths crossed again... but being a highschool student in a committed relationship with a woman who is already grown up and has experienced the perils of failed relationships, engagement, one-night stands and and getting pissed drunk only... well... love is blind.

And that's where I am. I feel like my youth has now died and I'm just now realizing how important it was and how much of it I missed out on. Now that I'm married with children, I'll never again experience the "first kiss" or the "first touch" or the "butterflies in your stomach" feeling ever again. I only got to experience it once and it was a very amazing feeling. My wife had it 5 times... and as she describes it, the 5th time was the last time her heart could take it so she happy with everyday of what we have. She was ready to commit.

The fact that my wife is 7 years older just brings me that much further from that which I missed while I was younger.

I feel so down and depressed. I find no joy in anything anymore.

Do you think you are able to reach a point where you can just accept that you may never again have that flaring & fluorescing feeling of initial seduction?

kork
12-12-2008, 04:22 PM
Do you think you are able to reach a point where you can just accept that you may never again have that flaring & fluorescing feeling of initial seduction?

Only time will tell. Initially it didn't bother me... because it was always an option... but now... it's not as much of an option... it's almost like the child being told "Don't touch that..."

Well, even more reason to want to touch...

marion
12-12-2008, 04:27 PM
Only time will tell. Initially it didn't bother me... because it was always an option... but now... it's not as much of an option... it's almost like the child being told "Don't touch that..."

Well, even more reason to want to touch...

is it always a hypothetical though? i.e. have you ever come across an actual person where you could see yourself seducing etc? i don't mean affairs or infidelity but just a certain spark tht could have been explored had you been free?

fuzmiq
12-12-2008, 04:28 PM
Alas, I'd much rather find a place where I can be content with what I have and not be so wrapped up in what I don't have.

I hope you do find that place. ;) Really. It seems like you are wrestling through your feelings. (You said you are going to a counselor) That tells me that you love and care about your family. Other people may have given in already or pretended they don't have those feelings (which usually just makes a situation worse).

kork
12-12-2008, 07:45 PM
is it always a hypothetical though? i.e. have you ever come across an actual person where you could see yourself seducing etc? i don't mean affairs or infidelity but just a certain spark tht could have been explored had you been free?

That's an EXCELLENT Question and one that I've questioned myself. On the logical side... I ask myself "In the last 12 years of being in a relationship, is there somebody that I know and/or even met that I'd like to pursue in a relationship."

Including 4 years of College, the answer is very easily "NO!". That said, I was never looking and never made an effort. I was happy and relatively content.

But I still have the empty feeling and when my wife went to visit the ex I was reminded even more of the empty feeling. I can only describe it as the feeling of lack of "exclusivity." the lack of having experienced something special for the first time together. Not... She's my first and I'm her... 1,2,3,4,5th serious relationship.

These feelings all surfaced when my wife visited the ex a few months back. It made me so angry. I can't shake the mental picture of her being intimate with another guy... I feel the only way for me to understand that it's no big deal is to have first hand experience.

vinsanity
12-12-2008, 11:57 PM
But I still have the empty feeling and when my wife went to visit the ex I was reminded even more of the empty feeling. I can only describe it as the feeling of lack of "exclusivity." the lack of having experienced something special for the first time together. Not... She's my first and I'm her... 1,2,3,4,5th serious relationship.

You mentioned earlier that you want to experience the taste of the single life, but to be complete honest, your lack of experience can be a pretty serious handicap for a 30-year-old. Many here will disagree with me, but the truth of the matter is that you're (theoretically) going to be out there approaching girls that have been approached hundreds of times before, and more importantly, competing against guys that have done hundreds of approaches before. Not to say you can't overcome a late start, but it's going to be exactly like hitting the "reset" button on a game that you've made very successful progress on.

Oh well, at least you have money on your side.

marion
12-13-2008, 12:15 AM
That's an EXCELLENT Question and one that I've questioned myself. On the logical side... I ask myself "In the last 12 years of being in a relationship, is there somebody that I know and/or even met that I'd like to pursue in a relationship."

Including 4 years of College, the answer is very easily "NO!". That said, I was never looking and never made an effort. I was happy and relatively content.

But I still have the empty feeling and when my wife went to visit the ex I was reminded even more of the empty feeling. I can only describe it as the feeling of lack of "exclusivity." the lack of having experienced something special for the first time together. Not... She's my first and I'm her... 1,2,3,4,5th serious relationship.


Yeah, I think there is a lot to be said about the importance of aligned common experiences (e.g. childhood sweethearts who stumble through the calamity of sex together for the first time etc)

Now my question is does the empty feeling go more along the lines of "I am frightened that my wife has had many intense relationships creating memories & experiences that i have no part in & can not really compete with in her mind" or is it more "i feel like i want to find passion & excitement with somebody new, somebody other than my wife because i've only ever been with her & i no longer feel that intensity with her"?

kork
12-13-2008, 08:35 AM
You mentioned earlier that you want to experience the taste of the single life, but to be complete honest, your lack of experience can be a pretty serious handicap for a 30-year-old. Many here will disagree with me, but the truth of the matter is that you're (theoretically) going to be out there approaching girls that have been approached hundreds of times before, and more importantly, competing against guys that have done hundreds of approaches before. Not to say you can't overcome a late start, but it's going to be exactly like hitting the "reset" button on a game that you've made very successful progress on.

Oh well, at least you have money on your side.

Hmmmmmm, I never thought about this one... But, on the same note, it also makes some of my feelings make sense.

Teenage Kork
- B student
- Not a good talker
- Average Height, average body, basic looks
- insecure around girls (couldn't talk to them)
- Friends in my group were "better"... Some were smarter, some were better looking... I was the average of averages.
- I was always sensitive, but highschool girls don't seem to care about that.
- Money didn't matter back then really...

Kork Today
- A+ Student, Member of Deans Council and advisory committees.
- Public Speaker - I've spoken as a guest speaker in front of 100 college students, I've been in books and magazines.
- 6 foot, great body. for shits n' giggles, 7 years ago on the "hotornot" website I was rated 9.8/10 from 150 voters.
- Not insecure around girls at all. Partly, I'm sure because I don't need to fear rejection. I can talk all I want and as long as I'm wearing my wedding band... All I need to say is... "I'm married". In fact, many of my female clients absolutely LOVE ME! I can be charming.
- Friends better than me now? I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say. I don't think so.
- I'm still just as sensitive as I was in highschool. But I'd tend to think that girls start to appreciate sensitivity more as they grow in experience... maybe?
- Money... yeah, I've got money, but that's not a card I'm wanting to play.

------------------

So I have no concern about the lack of experience. My experience lies elsewhere. I can look people dead in the eyes now and read them. I can walk into a room and people take notice. So maybe much of my desire to try single life is part of me that needs to prove to myself that I'm that "cat's meow...". Self validation. I'm no longer this little awkward highschool student who's always one step behind, or has less to offer than the next guy.

In 12 years I've grown... It almost feels like I've grown out of my cage. The cage that once offered protection and sanctuary is now forcing a lack of freedom and is becoming tight.

I need to feel desired. Maybe?

marion
12-13-2008, 08:43 AM
Hmmmmmm, I never thought about this one... But, on the same note, it also makes some of my feelings make sense.

Teenage Kork
- B student
- Not a good talker
- Average Height, average body, basic looks
- insecure around girls (couldn't talk to them)
- Friends in my group were "better"... Some were smarter, some were better looking... I was the average of averages.
- I was always sensitive, but highschool girls don't seem to care about that.
- Money didn't matter back then really...

Kork Today
- A+ Student, Member of Deans Council and advisory committees.
- Public Speaker - I've spoken as a guest speaker in front of 100 college students.
- 6 foot, great body. for shits n' giggles, 7 years ago on the "hotornot" website I was rated 9.8/10 from 150 voters.
- Not insecure around girls at all. Partly, I'm sure because I don't need to fear rejection. I can talk all I want and as long as I'm wearing my wedding band... All I need to say is... "I'm married". In fact, many of my female clients absolutely LOVE ME! I can be charming.
- Friends better than me now? I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say. I don't think so.
- I'm still just as sensitive as I was in highschool. But I'd tend to think that girls start to appreciate sensitivity more as they grow in experience... maybe?
- Money... yeah, I've got money, but that's not a card I'm wanting to play.

------------------

So I have no concern about the lack of experience. My experience lies elsewhere. I can look people dead in the eyes now and read them. I can walk into a room and people take notice. So maybe much of my desire to try single life is part of me that needs to prove to myself that I'm that "cat's meow...". Self validation. I'm no longer this little awkward highschool student who's always one step behind, or has less to offer than the next guy.

In 12 years I've grown... It almost feels like I've grown out of my cage. The cage that once offered protection and sanctuary is now forcing a lack of freedom and is becoming tight.

I need to feel desired. Maybe?

It sounds like you want to take your "new self identity" for a spin perhaps? The question is where do you want this to lead - are you trying to find somebody new to feel that unidentified spark with that you have lost with your wife?

kork
12-13-2008, 08:51 AM
Now my question is does the empty feeling go more along the lines of "I am frightened that my wife has had many intense relationships creating memories & experiences that i have no part in & can not really compete with in her mind" or is it more "i feel like i want to find passion & excitement with somebody new, somebody other than my wife because i've only ever been with her & i no longer feel that intensity with her"?

I think "both".

The first because I simply don't understand it. I don't understand how someone can love someone and then 10 years later, the feeling are simply NOT there.

I'm not in competition with my wife... I don't think... It's more like I'm in competition with her Ex's.

The losers she once called lovers (and yes, they were losers... it's not just in my own mind) all got to be with her when she was young, vibrant and in her "physical" peak. They got to stumble with her and I feel that I was left with the left-overs... which is a shitty way to put it, but with my lack of understanding it's the best way I can describe it...

The second
The intensity is certainly gone and I'm growing to miss it.

Perfect example.

My wife confessed to me 6 months ago that she doesn't enjoy kissing anymore. She has an issue with Saliva, even her own. And yet, all I can think about in my mind was that one of the reasons she described sex (ex she visited 3 months ago) as being the best she'd ever had was mainly due to the kissing. He was on top entire time and there was lots of kissing (as she described it).

Me, I don't have that. I don't understand it and I'm threatened by it. And because she went to visit the ex a few months ago, I feel that she was able to take the one thing that she had which was exclusive with me (trust) and throw it out the window by bringing the past back into the present. She told me afterwards she knew she shouldn't have gone... but her sister wanted to and she wanted her sister to have a good time... So.... she chose her sister over me in my eyes.

So it's like I feel totally lost. Here I am, with a wife and child... A wife who doesn't like to kiss anymore but LOVED it with her ex's. It's like I feel I'm getting taken for granted... I feel a definite lack of love.

:cry:

marion
12-13-2008, 09:24 AM
I think "both".

The losers she once called lovers (and yes, they were losers... it's not just in my own mind) all got to be with her when she was young, vibrant and in her "physical" peak. They got to stumble with her and I feel that I was left with the left-overs... which is a shitty way to put it, but with my lack of understanding it's the best way I can describe it...

The second
The intensity is certainly gone and I'm growing to miss it.

Perfect example.

My wife confessed to me 6 months ago that she doesn't enjoy kissing anymore. She has an issue with Saliva, even her own. And yet, all I can think about in my mind was that one of the reasons she described sex (ex she visited 3 months ago) as being the best she'd ever had was mainly due to the kissing. He was on top entire time and there was lots of kissing (as she described it).



The kissing aspect - to say that this is profoundly sad & disturbing would be an immense understatement. The relationship sounds so... "sanitised" & perfunctory based on this. What about in terms of being in your wife's company - is there any amusement, frivolity or wit in your interactions?

wordsmith
12-13-2008, 02:39 PM
Calling your wife "leftovers" that you were "left" with (even though, by your own account, it's a situation you CHOSE, not one that was thrust apon you) because she's no longer in her early twenties and "peak" is pretty gross. Sorry.

Not that your wife doesn't sound very drama-laden and headcase-y (which apparently didn't matter so much back when she was the ostensibly sexy older woman of 25 and you were the inexperienced kid, even though it sounds like she was just as drama-laden then, just not, you know, [i]old[i] and "leftovers" yet).

But, I'll be honest, it's hard for me to respect much of what you're writing or sharing when I read something like that. I know you're being honest, but, well, so am I.

kork
12-13-2008, 04:11 PM
The kissing aspect - to say that this is profoundly sad & disturbing would be an immense understatement. The relationship sounds so... "sanitised" & perfunctory based on this. What about in terms of being in your wife's company - is there any amusement, frivolity or wit in your interactions?

And I think this is what affects what the next poster had to say about my interpretation... She loved to kiss this other guy and others. Yet we've been together for 12 years and kissing for her is "gross" after... 8-9 years... Maybe, the terms left-overs I misinterpreted in my own lack of feeling "special"? and maybe I feel like I'm "settled for"?

I really need help with this. I must have totally missed something in the "relationships" department to sound like a 14 year old with "but what about me,me,me!!!. Am I not special too????"

Also, I still enjoy her company. If I'm heading out to the stores or something, I'd rather her be with me than not.


Calling your wife "leftovers" that you were "left" with (even though, by your own account, it's a situation you CHOSE, not one that was thrust apon you) because she's no longer in her early twenties and "peak" is pretty gross. Sorry.

Not that your wife doesn't sound very drama-laden and headcase-y (which apparently didn't matter so much back when she was the ostensibly sexy older woman of 25 and you were the inexperienced kid, even though it sounds like she was just as drama-laden then, just not, you know, [i]old[i] and "leftovers" yet).

But, I'll be honest, it's hard for me to respect much of what you're writing or sharing when I read something like that. I know you're being honest, but, well, so am I.

My apologies because I'm not often the best with words to describe my emotions. I try to come up with simple concepts from complex feelings which can obviously be misinterpreted. That's not the intent.

"Left-Overs" and the whole "age" and "Peak" thing..." is my best attempt to describe the feeling on not being "unique" with her. 6 months ago I these feelings did not exist. Yes, I CHOSE to be with her, and she CHOSE to visit the ex which ultimately ended up bringing up all of these issues I'm forced to deal with.

I need some help to get over it. I'm seeing a therapist, I'm on medication, I'm opening up to friends, I'm posting in forums and I'm wrestling with my thoughts day in and day out... I welcome ANY advice.

marion
12-13-2008, 06:36 PM
Also, I still enjoy her company. If I'm heading out to the stores or something, I'd rather her be with me than not.

"Left-Overs" and the whole "age" and "Peak" thing..." is my best attempt to describe the feeling on not being "unique" with her. 6 months ago I these feelings did not exist. Yes, I CHOSE to be with her, and she CHOSE to visit the ex which ultimately ended up bringing up all of these issues I'm forced to deal with.

The "left-overs" metaphor was cringe-inducing & demeaning HOWEVER I understood the underlying meaning you were trying to convey with this very poor choice of words. Now can you please elaborate on the everyday nature of your relationship with your wife? Saying that you'd rather have her with you when you go to the store than not is inadequate& extends the image of the relationship as being extremely perfunctory & devoid of essential affection & humour. Examples of what I mean - do you miss her while you are at work? Do you laugh with her about the ridiculousness & insanity of life on a daily basis? Do you feel excited to touch her every day?

vinsanity
12-13-2008, 06:54 PM
So I have no concern about the lack of experience. My experience lies elsewhere. I can look people dead in the eyes now and read them. I can walk into a room and people take notice. So maybe much of my desire to try single life is part of me that needs to prove to myself that I'm that "cat's meow...". Self validation. I'm no longer this little awkward highschool student who's always one step behind, or has less to offer than the next guy.

In 12 years I've grown... It almost feels like I've grown out of my cage. The cage that once offered protection and sanctuary is now forcing a lack of freedom and is becoming tight.

I need to feel desired. Maybe?

It's actually starting to make sense now. It sounds strange, but what you're going through is very similar to a woman's midlife crisis. The largest demographic at my office is women in their 40's, so I'm somewhat familiar with the feeling others have wondering if they're still desirable among the opposite sex.

kork
12-13-2008, 08:26 PM
Now can you please elaborate on the everyday nature of your relationship with your wife? Saying that you'd rather have her with you when you go to the store than not is inadequate& extends the image of the relationship as being extremely perfunctory & devoid of essential affection & humour. Examples of what I mean - do you miss her while you are at work? Do you laugh with her about the ridiculousness & insanity of life on a daily basis? Do you feel excited to touch her every day?

I'll answer but keep in mind we've been together for 12 years... I believe we're past the cutesy, can't get enough of eachother phase of the relationship.

I don't miss her while I'm at work but it's because I work with her and we both go home at lunch. However, one year ago I almost quit my full-time job so that I could focus on my own business and be at home with the family more often.

I'm the cuddler... I hug her from behind almost every night when we go to bed...

There's no excitement to the touch. It's been 12 years. The touch is comforting, but it's not exciting.

We talk about life all the time, but for me in the last 5 months it's been pretty crappy because of my feelings and thoughts. Right now I'm in a deep depressed state and it's hard to feel good about anything.

Overall, 6 months ago our relationship was excellent. Now I'm uber depressed and it's taking it's toll.


It's actually starting to make sense now. It sounds strange, but what you're going through is very similar to a woman's midlife crisis. The largest demographic at my office is women in their 40's, so I'm somewhat familiar with the feeling others have wondering if they're still desirable among the opposite sex.

If you didn't say "It sounds strange" I may have taken total offense to what you said! lol

It's funny. I always thought that once you got married and settled down, your desire for sex, attraction, etc would go away... For me, it's taken the complete opposite! My drive as a 29 year old male is higher now than it's ever been.

It really kindof sucks...

marion
12-13-2008, 10:54 PM
I'll answer but keep in mind we've been together for 12 years... I believe we're past the cutesy, can't get enough of eachother phase of the relationship.

I don't miss her while I'm at work but it's because I work with her and we both go home at lunch. However, one year ago I almost quit my full-time job so that I could focus on my own business and be at home with the family more often.

I'm the cuddler... I hug her from behind almost every night when we go to bed...

There's no excitement to the touch. It's been 12 years. The touch is comforting, but it's not exciting.

We talk about life all the time, but for me in the last 5 months it's been pretty crappy because of my feelings and thoughts. Right now I'm in a deep depressed state and it's hard to feel good about anything.

Overall, 6 months ago our relationship was excellent. Now I'm uber depressed and it's taking it's toll.

It's funny. I always thought that once you got married and settled down, your desire for sex, attraction, etc would go away... For me, it's taken the complete opposite! My drive as a 29 year old male is higher now than it's ever been.

It really kindof sucks...

Sounds like the wife is somewhat over it all too.
I also can't help thinking that you take yourself rather too seriously. So much so it borders on the morbid. We all indulge on the occasional emotional toss session but perhaps you've overdone yours just a touch?

wordsmith
12-13-2008, 11:34 PM
It's funny. I always thought that once you got married and settled down, your desire for sex, attraction, etc would go away.

Sweet Jesus, no. At least, it certainly SHOULDN'T. What would be the point of all the effort that goes into finding the right person if, as soon as you found them, you suddenly stopped being attracted? Why in the world would it go away?

I dunno. You say that because you've been together 12 years, you figure you're past the affection stage...food for thought, but my parents are on year 36, and they're still very much in the affection stage. Maybe your bar is set too low.

You do sound conflicted, though. On one hand, you say, "There's no excitement, it's been twelve years." But then, in the next breath, you say, "six months ago, our relationship was excellent." So the twelve years only became a problem in the past six months?

bluespoon
12-14-2008, 02:06 AM
I also can't help thinking that you take yourself rather too seriously.

I agree.


Time for a vacation and partying. With alcohol. A good stiff drink (or 2) every once in a while doesn't hurt. You need to let loose and take a break from all this head-y stuff. Get away from work and the house! Go out and experience life! Take your daughter and wife out and do something fun! If it's snowing where you are, go out and make snow angels!!

kork
12-14-2008, 09:25 AM
Sweet Jesus, no. At least, it certainly SHOULDN'T. What would be the point of all the effort that goes into finding the right person if, as soon as you found them, you suddenly stopped being attracted? Why in the world would it go away?

I should have said "diminished." The only thing I have to go by is my own parents and parents of my friends... My parents are divorced and my best friends parents are divorced... my wife's parents are divorced... None of my other friends have affectionate parents that I can recall (Though, it's been a decade since I've been part of their day-to-day activities.

I guess the key is "right person?"



You do sound conflicted, though. On one hand, you say, "There's no excitement, it's been twelve years." But then, in the next breath, you say, "six months ago, our relationship was excellent." So the twelve years only became a problem in the past six months?

If I weren't conflicted, I'd have the answer. :) and wouldn't be posting here. 3 years ago we were a loving, happy go lucky, be with each-other all the time couple. 3 years ago my wife got pregnant during our honeymoon. Totally planned. 2 years ago, child #1 was born... All attention on the baby as new parents, including much of my own. A year ago, I tried to get back into the whole intimacy side of things. It didn't work.

5 months ago Wife was still pre-occupied all the time with the child... We have no family close by and we live in a relatively new city. We didn't really have anyone to take care of our child so that we could even go out.

So, I start to see the next 20 years of my life looking right in front of me... There's no way out... I'm trapped. I'm married with children. Several other key events occurred and I found myself getting worse and worse and worse.

I was close to buying the stupidly expensive new car... I almost bought a Harley, I went on a vacation on my own to "get away." I've been feeling a very powerful urge to "start over."

So in an effort to re-kindle our passion and excitement, 4 months ago my wife and I found 2 babysitters. We went out for dinner. we went to a club, we went mini-golfing, we went bowling with friends, we went to the movies. We went out nearly every weekend that month. I was still falling into my slump though. I found I wasn't enjoying her company as much as I used to. It's comfortable, but to have a dinner and sit across from eachother and have a conversation is, well... kinda boring OR it's discussions about our daughter. I even asked my wife a few months ago that once our little girl goes to bed at night, that we DON'T TALK ABOUT HER! We focus on "us"

So 3 months ago, we decided mutually that in order for us to remain strong as a couple and for us to be able to enjoy each-other as a couple still, we would postpone the second child indefinitely. We were both soooo relieved with the decision... We felt as though a ton of weight had been lifted off our shoulders... We still had "some" freedom since we were coming to terms with the sacrifices by having a child and we had 2 babysitters.

A week later, my wife came to me crying. She was 3 weeks pregnant.

So a week after we decided against another child, we found out that she was 3 weeks pregnant.

And since then I've been sinking into a depression...



Sounds like the wife is somewhat over it all too.
I also can't help thinking that you take yourself rather too seriously. So much so it borders on the morbid. We all indulge on the occasional emotional toss session but perhaps you've overdone yours just a touch?


Yes, I starting to see that now and that's EXACTLY what my mother told me yesterday in a lengthy conversation. I take myself too seriously. I always have.

I have an anxiety disorder which makes controlling your own thoughts VERY DIFFICULT. I've been that way since I was a small child.



I agree.


Time for a vacation and partying. With alcohol. A good stiff drink (or 2) every once in a while doesn't hurt. You need to let loose and take a break from all this head-y stuff. Get away from work and the house! Go out and experience life! Take your daughter and wife out and do something fun! If it's snowing where you are, go out and make snow angels!!


There have been many times in the recent history where I've wanted to slam back a couple shots... :(

But unfortunately, I can't have alcohol. It affects the medication I'm taking for the anxiety and depression (which is supposed to kick in in 2 weeks).

And the depression makes me feel so down now. I can't think of a single thing that could make me happy. I'm ready to crack!

vinsanity
12-14-2008, 12:05 PM
I'll be completely honest here. With the exception of having alot of money, that's probably the future I was trying to avoid during my years in college. The last thing I wanted was to settle down right away and start a family.

But now, I feel like I'm just stuck in neutral while life slowly passes me by. Save for one really good friendship my ex gave me an ultimatum to choose between her and herself, I have nothing to show for all the "conquests" I've made during college except for a few more profiles on my facebook and myspace friend lists.

drummer
12-15-2008, 12:27 AM
3 years ago we were a loving, happy go lucky, be with each-other all the time couple. 3 years ago my wife got pregnant during our honeymoon. Totally planned. 2 years ago, child #1 was born... All attention on the baby as new parents, including much of my own. A year ago, I tried to get back into the whole intimacy side of things. It didn't work.

5 months ago Wife was still pre-occupied all the time with the child... We have no family close by and we live in a relatively new city. We didn't really have anyone to take care of our child so that we could even go out.

In one of my classes in college, we talked about how a lot of husbands feel neglected by their wives after they start having children. A lot of the attention is no longer on them. I realize this isn't advice and it seems you've come to that conclusion anyway, but just to share this particular problem might be true for a lot of men.

wordsmith
12-15-2008, 12:42 AM
In many breeds of mammals, the females often have to protect the offspring from being attacked and killed by the dominant male or males, because the females aren't in heat when they're nurturing/nursing the young. Fathers and offspring competing, essentially, for the attention of the female is pretty much nature at work.

marion
12-15-2008, 02:06 AM
The state of mind you are in is extremely limited, one-dimensional & narrowly focused in terms of perspective at this point in time. You will not be able to resuscitate the sexual & intellectual excitement of your relationship with your wife until you adopt a perspective of distance and detachment whereby you see her from the viewpoint of a voyeuristic observer.
You also need to attempt to adopt similar objectivity with regards to your own personal identity.

zogob
12-15-2008, 02:38 AM
problem with regrets is that in reality, the only thing that really 'could have been' is what was.

The only thing you have to work with is your present moment. Reminiscing, wishing, 'what if'-ing about the past is not just a waste of mental energy, it is a harmful waste of mental energy.

erika36
12-16-2008, 12:27 PM
problem with regrets is that in reality, the only thing that really 'could have been' is what was.

The only thing you have to work with is your present moment. Reminiscing, wishing, 'what if'-ing about the past is not just a waste of mental energy, it is a harmful waste of mental energy.

Agreed.

marion
12-19-2008, 08:57 AM
I can't help wondering what became of kork. He seemed to be in considerable distress...

kork
12-19-2008, 02:37 PM
I can't help wondering what became of kork. He seemed to be in considerable distress...

Oh I'm still around... But have been very busy... I keep chipping away at one issue at a time...

marion
12-19-2008, 05:49 PM
Oh I'm still around... But have been very busy... I keep chipping away at one issue at a time...

Do you at least feel somewhat better about it? As you can tell nobody is exempt from issues & the only way to get through is a moment at a time.

MLMaestro
01-21-2009, 12:52 AM
Although I have never experienced what you did, I can feel you...

1977
01-21-2009, 02:06 AM
What a traumatic thread! :eek:

yogaflame13
01-21-2009, 03:18 AM
To the OP, this thread is crazy, and I'm sorry you are having this kind of situation...hang in there.

I almost think you should see your wife LESS...the fact that you are busy raising children together AND working together means you are seeing each other too much, I reckon. As supply goes up, demand goes down, IMO. Even if you are married, you still need to have your "me" time so you can enjoy your hobbies and friends. Again, this is a little harder with kids to raise, so you have my sympathies there.

I don't mean to be a dick, but it sounds like at least some of this is you being a little full of yourself and wanting to go strut your stuff for the sake of getting an ego boost, or justifying yourself somehow and getting validation. We all need some sorta of validation, so I do feel ya there, but you are kinda pushing the envelope a little, IMO.

On the same hand though....it doesn't sound like your wife has really helped you out a lot. Again, I don't want to judge, but it sounds like she tells you some stuff that she probably shouldn't, and that makes you feel like crap. Maybe she is going through her own kind of crisis, and that is her way of dealing with it....I don't know. I would also say, the whole "I don't like kissing anymore" thing really sucks, regardless of what the reason for that is. That sounds like something she should be seeing a counselor for, honestly. That doesn't sound normal to me.

It's good you are seeing a counselor...you really need to blow off some steam, I would think.

As far as the whole attraction waning/relationship changing thing goes...I think there is actually a good amount of sociological research around that says that people grow and change, and that humans might not be wired for really long term relationships anyway, really. Some people manage to stay together forever and are still physically and emotionally happy, but I think that only happens when both people make a serious effort to grow and change together, and respect the wishes/lifestyle/goals of the other.

Hopefully you can dig for your answers and talk to a lot of people and figure out what YOU need in your life before you do anything rash.

Let me ask you though, what IS your ideal life, really? How would it differ from your current life? How would it be similar?

Sanman111
01-24-2009, 06:17 PM
Wow! I just read through this thread and can definitely understand some of the feelings you are going through.

In many ways, I can relate to much of what you have written. Though I have been an overachiever and it has helped me be fairly successful, I have realized that such success alone does not make me happy. As for the issues you have expressed, I see at least a few distinct problems:

1. You have always done what you thought was right rather than what you wanted. People said it was good to be successful, so you were. People said that once you are in a relationship and committed you get married, so you did. People said it was time to have children, so you did. You need to let go of some pre(mis)conceptions and get in touch with what you truly want. At this point it seems as if you want more balance. While the impulse might be to destry everything. You can go to a monthly poker night, a bar, smoke a joint, etc and still be a good husband and father. The trick is being responsible and finding a balance. It is time for you to find your own life rather than only being wrapped up in family. In the long run, this might make you happier and, therefore, better for your family.

2. It seems as if you have had your wife on a pedestal for a long time. She came into your life as the sexy older woman and at this point, the roles have reversed. Though it may not be politically correct, I believe it is pretty common. You have come to relaize that at this stage the sexy older woman is approaching middle age and you are just hitting your peak (a common position for women; thus the previous poster's suggestion). There is a combination of the jealousy you feel around your wife's exes (cause you are still the invisible 18 yr old in your head; aren't we all) and the realization that you are no longer powerless in this situation (you are at your peak physically/financially) and have opportunities you can take advantage of. That doen't mean it will make you happy in the long run.

Question: Is your wife jealous if you are talking to/laughing with a younger, more attractive woman? It seems as if her sister is very attached to her exes and may be causing some of this friction.