Just need to vent [Archive] - QLC Message Boards

HDC80

07-22-2009, 04:08 PM

Many of you here know how horrid my family can be, Ive bitched and moaned and complained about them quite a bit....

But just when I think Ive come to terms with it....just when I think its okay....stuff rears its ugly head. There have been 3 such instances in the past 2 weeks....Im posting to get your take, as well as maybe some virtual support and empathy.

The first:
Story of my ex. almost 3 years together, moved in, had been cheating, broke up 2 days later, lived with me for 6 more, moved out and in to a place with her, got engaged around Halloween, married July 12, 2009.....a year and a week after our split.

Now thats a short amount of time to recover. I was a MESS last summer, and my parents offered some support and escape (which TOTALLY surprised me) and I think Ive done well recovering....Im happy again, eating, going out with friends...

Well last weekend proved to be REALLY hard....it wasnt like I didnt leave the house...I partied Friday and Saturday nights....had a blast...but Sunday woke up, had no plans and felt like HELL.
called up my mom...asked if I could come over (I NEVER do this) to sit by the pool, hang out and just be. Told her why..upset about it being my ex's wedding day.

I go over...my Dad stops me on the front lawn. Launches into a song and dance that Im in a funk of my own doing, Ive made it an anniversary of sorts, and to snap out of it and get over it. Im crying....he didnt stop, didnt console me but KEPT GOING.
I finally said to him....its RARE that I come to you guys with anything, and you've PROVEN why, and why I will cease to do so in the future.
I was going to bolt to my car, but said screw it stayed...but didnt stay for the usual Sunday dinner. I was pissed at him, no support, no love just GET OVER IT. an the implication that Ive been mopey (which I certainly have not....would say so if I was)

Then this past weekend.....at a family freinds party....2 hour drive up and 2 hour drive back.
My Bday is next week...on Wednesday....the night Im typically with them for dinner.
My mom says....dont bother coming over, its just your Bday nothing big, not like you're turning 10 or something.

Um.....ouch.

Then later...we're at a table chatting with the husband of one of the guests...and he asks if Im the only child.....my mother is sitting next to me, Im in the middle-----she jumps in before I can answer and says....yes, but let me be honest....I didnt want kids. Got stuck with her, which is why there are no others.

The comment is lingering...Im trying not to show any emotion, and the guy says well why mess with perfection right?

My mom says.....if thats what you call perfection.

Um OUCH.

Whats so sick to me...is that when I think she cant say something worse than what Ive heard before...she does.....and just when I come to a place of acceptance, something comes up where she vocalizes it.

Now...some might say tell them how this all makes me feel....well Ive tried that...Im told that Im making it up in my head, that its not what they meant, they were only joking dont be so sensitive...but they never consider that Im telling them it hurts me or bothers me.

Sorry this got really really long.....any responses?
Do other families operate like this?

pawnstar3

07-22-2009, 04:23 PM

I'll be honest with you - your family sounds dysfunctional - and i dont mean to sound insulting when i say that = to some degree every family is dysfunctional but this seems kind of extreme

I have a very different type of family - we're very close (almost too close maybe) and i've never been insulted like that by anyone in my family - so it's hard for me to know where you're coming from but i think you have every right to be upset

HDC80

07-22-2009, 04:33 PM

not insulting.....I say it all the time that my family is dysfunctional.

Sheesh...at that same party my fathers best friend asked me whats been going on and if Im seeing anyone...my own parents dont ask what I do, or if Im seeing anyone......which is why Im TERRIBLY freaked out to say anything about the guy Im seeing....plus I already know they wont like him...no added pressure.

Why wont they like him??
He isnt college educated but is schooled in being an EMT, and is a fireman.
He lives where an ex lived (over 4 years ago)---they WILL take issue thinking Im taking a step backwards
His 2 sisters both have kids...one got married at 19 and has 1 kid, the other isnt married with 2.....they will have issue with the family values.

It wont matter how nice he is, how good he is to me, how much I like him.....these things will always be an issue to them and they will BROW beat me about them and berrade me for hanging out with this guy until they break up the relationship.

4 ex's have pointed to my family being one of the MAJOR issues in why we split.

pawnstar3

07-22-2009, 04:37 PM

And from the sounds of it, i cant say i blame your ex's for splitting for those reasons- i'm surprised you're not in therapy with a family that acts like that - they seem to have a real lack of love and respect for you

HDC80

07-22-2009, 04:45 PM

I was....though for other reasons.

Was told you know this is abusive right??

And also told that most in a situation like this would have either rebelled hard core, or been totally reclusive introverts.......and that Im NEITHER of those...shrink was baffled......

I never rebelled because I had no where to turn ....no friends.
Never became introverted since its just not who I am.

I cant say I blame my ex's....but my family has very little involvement in my life...not like they had to go to dinners with them often....even my ex of 3 years only spent time with my parents a handful of times......
And you're with the PERSON not their family.....but maybe thats a wrong assumption.....

kmv2005

07-22-2009, 04:51 PM

Wow. I'm sorry your family is like that. I've had my own issues with my family lately, but at least my mom has never told me I was unwanted. Have you considered cutting off all contact with them? I know that sounds harsh, but in the long run I think you'd be better off. My dad has zero understanding of me either, and I've decided to talk to him as little as possible and just keep my distance. It helps to be able to live my life without his disapproving presence.

DaneCA

07-22-2009, 05:03 PM

4 ex's have pointed to my family being one of the MAJOR issues in why we split.

In that case, I would really suggest creating some distance. Is it possible to cut back on your contact with your family? It's just not worth it if you're constantly making sacrifices and getting nothing but hurt in return. What are YOU getting out of this relationship?

Your mother joking about wishing she'd never had you is definitely NOT normal. Parents should never, ever say this, no matter how jokingly.

I'm really close with my family and I get along with my parents, but I can relate to some of the issues you mentioned that your parents would have with the guy you're dating because my parents are the same way. They expect me to date someone who's educated, well-off and from a background that's similar to mine. In the past, with the two serious relationships I've had, I didn't follow their "rules" and went for guys who were definitely more from "the wrong side of the tracks." (Not out of rebellion; these guys weren't losers, just less fortunate.) So, I chose to leave my parents in the dark for the most part. I'd mention that I was dating someone but I wouldn't go into much detail. By the time I felt comfortable sharing more information, my parents realized things were serious and knew better than to criticize someone I cared about, because they're smart enough to know that they run the risk of totally alienating me if they won't accept my partner. Besides, they trust my opinion and know that I choose well. I also try to remind myself that they interfere because they want the best for me, and marrying someone who's similar to me would be easier than spending my life with a guy whose background is totally opposite of mine.

I don't know if that applies to you, but it's something to think about when you get down on their snobbish opinions.

winneythepooh7

07-22-2009, 05:43 PM

I'm not going to say not to talk to them. Being in my field and doing what I do for a living, I long ago came to understand, that no matter how dysfunctional or abusive someone's parent's may be, children usually long to be with their birth parents because they want to gain their love/respect/approval whatever it may be.

This is why many times when I try to do work with the most neediest of clients, nothing ever gets accomplished because often the dysfunctional family members will sabotage it.

Anyways, this isn't about me or my work, but I strongly suggest if you haven't already, to begin therapy. It may help you find a way to cope in the best way YOU can for dealing with your own personal situation.

HDC80

07-22-2009, 06:08 PM

Unfortuneately due to some business ties I have with them, cutting off communication or lessening the amount that I see them isnt an available option.

My Dad has a great saying....to the point you made about how you're serious with someone and they know better than to criticize.....my father tells me flat out that he's my father and he will express any opinion he has about anything that I do.
He doesnt understand its not always appropriate...as I pointed out I dont tell him my opinion about things he does.....as he so wonderfully retorted thats right because I am the child, he is the parent.

In my family their statements dont alienate me, they alienate the person Im spending my time with....as they will not be included in the even rare times they might get an invitation to join my family in something.

This of course leads to resentment when someones family accepts and invites me but it is not returned. Its hard to expect anyone to deal with or understand and accomodate this insanity...I have to because they are family.

I was in therapy...and 2 seperate therapists have pointed this out as abusive and fascinating that Im not rebellious, or reclusive because of it.....which is great...but it doesnt help me deal with the situation.

One gave the suggestion to tell them how I feel....despite how I explained they turn it around on me.....

SIgh, times I wish I was stronger.

winneythepooh7

07-22-2009, 06:22 PM

Family therapy could probably be helpful, but I think you may have said in the past that they would refuse to go?

I know someone personally who has a mother like yours. Only I don't think she has out and out said she never wanted kids, but her mother told her she never wanted her. Her actions towards her children show them that she doesn't care about them though.

Samwell

07-22-2009, 06:35 PM

.....they will have issue with the family values.

Oh sweet irony...

DaneCA

07-22-2009, 07:55 PM

My Dad has a great saying....to the point you made about how you're serious with someone and they know better than to criticize.....my father tells me flat out that he's my father and he will express any opinion he has about anything that I do.
He doesnt understand its not always appropriate...as I pointed out I dont tell him my opinion about things he does.....as he so wonderfully retorted thats right because I am the child, he is the parent.

I agree with this to a certain extent, and I'm sure it's difficult for parents to sit back and shut up when they disagree with the decisions their children are making. But your parents have to realize that you're an adult, and as long as your choices aren't dangerous or self-destructive, they should mind their own business. It seems like they're having a hard time accepting that you're no longer a child whom they can boss around. I wonder if you play into this by not really asserting yourself?

pisces2473

07-22-2009, 08:25 PM

Why not just limit contact? Keep it bare bones and focus on whatever business interests you have with them. No weekly dinners or stuff like that.

The fact that you allow them--no, you give them--the PRIVILEGE of staying in your life speaks volumes and is probably why you allow other people to trample over you. You've been on these boards, in one incarnation or another for as long as I have, and you have said the same things again and again about your parents. It's an obvious pattern of allowing people to treat you like crap but still keeping them around.

I know family is family, but if yours is treating you like shit, you need to limit the contact. Not cut them out.

Why not make a new family out of all of the close friends you have? You seem to have a good support system already in place. Lean on them.

wordsmith

07-23-2009, 02:43 AM

If you have business with them, treat them like you would any business partner...coolly and professionally.

You are choosing to let them into your life in a more personal way, and choosing to allow them to behave in disrespectful, abusive manners toward you by allowing the opportunity.

Your therapists may be in awe that you're not rebellious or reclusive, but have they noted at all your need for approval and your related doggedness in sticking by people who persist in treat you with disrespect?

winneythepooh7

07-23-2009, 08:01 AM

You also mentioned that you WERE in therapy. Are you still? This sounds like a very deep-rooted issue that's not just going to "go away" in a few short-term sessions.

I've heard you mention before as well if other families are like this? While I am sure there are some, it's really not the majority, and certainly not behavior you HAVE to put up with.

HDC80

07-23-2009, 02:04 PM

Family therapy probably would be helpful, but tehy would never go. They dont see there is a problem, its all me, in my head.....my being hurt or upset by what they say isnt acceptable...plus even if they agreed, can only IMAGINE the tension THAT would cause.

Sam----family values in the sense that one sister had 2 kids out of wedlock, the other is in an interracial marriage since 19, none are college educated.....

Dane----thats pretty much my point. I dont do anything destructive, so why are they voicing their opinions like that?
If I try to assert myself Im told that Im overreacting, or that Im making things up in my head and its not what they really said.....or that Im just flat out WRONG.

I consider my friends my family...believe me! They know about my life whereas my family does not.
As for limiting contact, that would be difficult. They would grow very suspiscious if I stopped coming to dinner, and well those dinners always include business conversations....
Thing is...my parents arent really in my life (IMO)----I dont tell them anything I do, anything personal, they dont know who I spend my time with or what I do with my time....so its not like they're actually getting much sharing from me.....though I see what you mean----jsut being there is keeping them in my life.

I think not sharing anything personal is treating them cooly/professionally?

Um....as for a therapist pointing those things out.....we started to explore those items, but then she didnt really have time to make appointments so I stopped going. Didnt pick it back up because I was feeling better about much of the items, and I got REALLY REALLY busy.

I was seeing her for nearly 6 months.

I ask if other families are like this...in parents express what they think without caring about feelings....or if they take NO interest in the personal lives of their children.
I cant recall the last time my parents asked me what I did, what Id been up to, who Id been around with, and they have NEVER EVER asked me if Im seeing anyone.
I honestly think they assume I spend all my time alone!

pisces2473

07-23-2009, 10:39 PM

You really need to do business with them, every week? I think that's a little extreme.

I really think you enjoy being a victim, and until you learn to say no to people who crap on you, you're going to keep taking their garbage and continue to post about it here, asking if other families are like this. After 6 or 7 years on these boards, and with all of the friends you've talked to...I think the answer is quite clear. Yes, all families can have issues, but not all families are like yours.

HDC80

07-27-2009, 09:26 AM

Yes business has to be taken care of every week...its at least an hour to two hours of every visit.

While you think its extream, you have no understanding of what the business is or why I HAVE to be involved in it. So please stop passing judgement on the amount of time spent on it.

Oh yes I totally love being the victim. Its a great position to be in. Wonderful to be shot down when I do stand up for myself, wonderful to be in a family that could care less.

Your family dynamics are obviously different than mine, and while you may not understand where Im coming from since yours are vastly different, some empathy due to the dire nature of mine would be appreciated....or you know what, just dont say anything if you feel the need to be THAT condescending.

wordsmith

07-27-2009, 07:34 PM

pisces2473

07-27-2009, 10:26 PM

You are choosing this. It's not something you have to do.

Agreed. No one has to be in a family business or have anything to do with their family.

I'm not being condescending. I'm speaking frankly and honestly about a situation that has gone on far too long, repeatedly, on this board.

HDC80

07-28-2009, 02:51 PM

Again. I will say that my involvement is not voluntary, and you have no grasp of what it involves and that it is NOT a choice. I wont go into the details about other than I cant walk away or decide to not be involved.

winneythepooh7

07-28-2009, 03:44 PM

Unless you are incarcerated, there's always a choice. Even then, you'd be amazed the rights that even prisoners have.

pisces2473

07-28-2009, 04:03 PM

Unless you are incarcerated, there's always a choice. Even then, you'd be amazed the rights that even prisoners have.
Good point. In prison, the inmate has to give the staff a list of who they want to be allowed in to see them.

wordsmith

07-29-2009, 12:41 AM

You've posted here long enough for it to be obvious to anybody who's followed your situations that you place yourself in situations and then act like it's out of your hands. This is a prime example.

pisces2473

07-29-2009, 12:42 AM

You've posted here long enough for it to be obvious to anybody who's followed your situations that you place yourself in situations and then act like it's out of your hands. This is a prime example.
Careful, Words! Don't be condescending now.

HDC80

07-29-2009, 09:41 AM

Words.
Im sorry that you've never been in situations where things happen and it is COMPLETELY out of your hands.

You dont know me from Adam. You wouldnt know me if we passed one another on the street, all you know is what I post here....I have no reason to fabricate, or exaggerate.....whats funny though, is the most common phrase I hear from my friends is 'wow, only you would have that happen to you, anyone else and I would think they're lying'.....

These are people who have known me for years and seen me through my best and worst...if they're saying it, I can only imagine how it comes across on these boards.

But I dont have to justify myself....all I can say is that situations arise, and most often it is out of MY hands.

wordsmith

07-29-2009, 09:57 AM

Yep, I know "completely out of my hands." Somebody mowing you down in their car during a high-speed police chase as you cross the street is completely out of your hands. Driving down the street and getting hit by a stray bullet from a drive-by shooting three blocks over is completely out of your hands. Being afflicted with a terminal illness is completely out of your hands.

Actively choosing not to cut the umbilical cord that tethers you to abusive parents does not fall in this same league.

It's not about justifying it or not justifying it. But recognize that you choose to involve or not involve people who treat your poorly in your life and to involve yourself in theirs. Whether that's your piece of crap parents, the guy who cheated on you and dumped you and his family/entourage, whoever. It's your choice.

pisces2473

07-29-2009, 10:02 AM

What's really sad is that, like any victim of abuse, she doesn't think it's that bad yet...or that they'll change.

She's obviously not ready to remove herself from a very toxic situation.

As for why she continues to post about it, to vent about it, is another thing. We don't take other people's continual ranting/complaining/posting about situations. We've all been very supportive and "in your face" when necessary, with many many people over the years. Why it hasn't worked for this poster is an anomaly. And a sad cycle.

HDC80

07-29-2009, 11:03 AM

Words.
Then I guess you are a stonger person than I, if when people are deeply involved in your life that you can just walk away and not look back. I could never be that cold.
I think that people are people, and we all make mistakes and we all do things but it does not make us any less human or any less worthy of someone caring about us.

Yes my ex cheated on me......and we barely spoke in any form for nearly a year. But I healed, I overcame that situation, and in the end, we did spend 3 years together....and we have memories together, both of us were happy to revisit those and we will never be the hang out and get together all the time friends...we will keep in touch...but have our seperate lives.

As for his family/friends-----we developed friendships OUTSIDE of the common factor of my ex. We spoke, Emailed, and were in contact that wasnt linked to him, and those will not fade..and havent....when he and I split.

Pisces----when did I ever say that I thought they would change?? When did I say that I hoped or thought that they could? I know they wont, Ive resigned myself to this fact....I dont believe they will change, and Im not trying to have them change.
Im unsure about 'removing myself from a very toxic situation'.....I dont live with them....they are not very involved in my life (dont know what I do, where I go, who my friends are, dont come to my house)----and the statement that my mother made that sparked this thread isnt a constant thing I hear (last time was probably around Xmas...so maybe 2 times a year?)

And Im sorry but there are plenty of people who continually post and complain or vent about their dating ventures, or their job, or how they still live at home.....I dont see you giving the same crass posts to them as you do to me about this situation.

These people are my FAMILY, I dont believe that you walk away or abandon your family unless there is phsyical abuse, or overt emotiona/verbal abuse. That is NOT the case here.....they do not hit me, and while yes they say unpleasant things-----its not every time I see them. And as Ive said....we have business together. I cant just walk due to the business. While some of you state just leave....there are BINDING LEGAL CONTRACTS that prevent my doing so...and no I dont have the money for a lawyer to go to court over it.

pisces2473

07-29-2009, 11:50 AM

And Im sorry but there are plenty of people who continually post and complain or vent about their dating ventures, or their job, or how they still live at home.....I dont see you giving the same crass posts to them as you do to me about this situation.
Let's see...because they haven't been here for YEARS, posting about the same things. A bunch of us have tried being nice, and supportive, but you've always thrown back anything we've offered. Not just with your family, but this latest stuff w/ your ex and the firefighter. If you want to continue to deal w/ them, fine.

These people are my FAMILY, I dont believe that you walk away or abandon your family unless there is phsyical abuse, or overt emotiona/verbal abuse. That is NOT the case here.....they do not hit me, and while yes they say unpleasant things-----its not every time I see them. And as Ive said....we have business together. I cant just walk due to the business. While some of you state just leave....there are BINDING LEGAL CONTRACTS that prevent my doing so...and no I dont have the money for a lawyer to go to court over it.
I think you need to decide what's really important to you. If dealing with your family is not that big of a deal, then fine. If it is, then save up your money, and hire a lawyer and cut ties.

Honestly, if my mother made comments about me and my conception in front of ANYONE, I would cut her off. Mother or not.

HDC80

07-29-2009, 12:07 PM

Um what have I posted that has been bad about the FF??

Pisces...has your mother ever made those types of comments to others with you there??

If not, then its nice you say/think you would cut her off, but you dont really know what you would do in the situation until you are faced with it.

hoodie

07-29-2009, 12:29 PM

What type of business are you all so entwined in here? I guess before I can say anything here I want to know what exactly it is keeping you in this situation, down to the binding legal contracts.

Basically this, if it's really going to rape you financially, and that's the ONLY thing keeping you there, that's one thing.

But one thing that worries me is that whole spiel about not walking away from family and your family not being overtly emotionally abusive. Some of the things said to/about you ARE overtly emotionally abusive. Absolutely.

HDC80

07-29-2009, 12:35 PM

pawnstar3

07-29-2009, 12:38 PM

Here's the way i look at this whole thing:

HDC - I think your biggest problem has been that you have a hard time walking away from clearly toxic situations - ie. the guy that cheated on you, your family etc.

From what you've described of your family, they absolutely seem emotionally abusive and i would cut ties with them - just like i would cut ties with an ex who blatantly cheated on me and was marrying the person they cheated on me with - that's just me though - everyone has their own personal decisions to make in life and all we can do on here is offer advice

In your defense, i do feel like sometimes people on these boards can get condescending or act like they know everything about a situation and in reality they themselves have their own toxic situations that they refuse to leave or deal with- that's just the way things are in life - everyone wants to be an authority on other people's lives but rarely if ever do they follow their own advice

Having said all that, however, i really do feel like you HAVE A CHOICE here and you need to cut ties with your family, your ex, etc. - i think in the long run you'll feel better

DaneCA

07-29-2009, 12:54 PM

We don't know you outside this forum and we're not in your situation, HDC, so I agree, it's really easy for us to say, "Just cut ties with your family," but much more difficult for you to actually do so. But I don't agree that abuse is only "yelling, screaming, swearing," whatever. If your mother says she wishes she'd never had you, even if it only happens twice a year, that's emotional abuse, whether or not you agree.

My dad's family is somewhat similar to yours, only WAY more emotionally abusive (from what I know of your situation). His mother was really, really awful, but they all put up with it. It took her saying that she hoped my mom would die for my dad to cut ties with his mother, and this was at the age of 50-something when he'd been dealing with this abuse all his life. He's still his parents' executor and he has a lot of business dealings with them, but he keeps their relationship entirely professional now. There are no longer any family dinners, shared Christmas celebrations, Mother's Day phone calls, etc.

pisces2473

07-29-2009, 12:54 PM

Real Estate. Im a signatory on a number of properties and they are on a number of mine....its how we keep the balance.
Im also a signatory on my grandmothers health, and other financial set up, they need me to sign and be present when any items change or any meetings are held (including conference calls). Im the back up medical proxy.
My fathers business, I am an employee. Its for tax purposes and its another way that I keep my investments in check.
The Estate...due to being an only child, and things that come with the estate that they have, again signatures etc.....my information is also part of the larger picture.

I see overt abuse as constant screaming, yelling, swearing, insults etc.

I don't know what type of "balance" you're all "keeping" but to me, this is screaming "this is how they exert their control over me." Abuse can be subtle, it can also be done via blackmail and control re: money.

There cannot be this many things that need weekly meetings, constant signatures and conference calls. My family owns a small business and my grandfather is in a long term care facility (my dad is the health care admin for him). There is not this much "activity" for anything, unless they need to have a meeting about his care or if there is a new bank account to be opened.

HDC80

07-29-2009, 01:27 PM

Again Pisces...that is your dealings with your family buisness. You are unaware of what the buisiness is or why we need the frequency to speak about the items involved.

I can tell you that when I do have to step away and am anable to go and talk about dealings for a week there is a pile of stuff that needs to be gone through etc....its literally like a second full time job.

Due to the nature of these accounts and my grandmothers situation AND it being international...we keep changing items, every time any item is changed, all parties involved have to sign.....currently to keep things going, signatures have been required of me at least 15 times this year.

Again...not that I have to but to defend myself.....due to some major changes in the past 48 hours, Ive had 6 thats right 6 conference calls in the past 2 days. Some lasting 30 minutes, others a mere 10.

Due to these major changes, I was almost on a plane to take care of an emergency situation, that if needed would require a signature...and due to my schedule I was the available one to go. Granted that again changed within 12 hours, but the need was there.

Now those last 2 paragraphs, JUST deal with my grandmother. I havent even gotten to the details about the other business involvement with properties and people involved with that.

So while your dealings with your family business might be quick and rare, mine are not. Its a constant topic and necessity.

The 'balance' that I speak of has to do with money, in several accounts that gets shifted around quite frequently. Its pooled money from my parents, myself, my grandmother and my uncle. Its invested and earns money for her care.....we all have our hands in the information to make the best decisions on how to invest.
We also each have a seperate account containing some of on anothers money should the main account have an issue. This is money that we have all signed legal documents that we will not touch. In an emergency, that money can be pulled to cover care for her should she need it.

Dane....guess we just have different definitions of what abuse is. I just dont jump on the bandwagon that if someone says something hurtful or mean that its automatically abuse.

pisces2473

07-29-2009, 01:38 PM

Again Pisces...that is your dealings with your family buisness. You are unaware of what the buisiness is or why we need the frequency to speak about the items involved.

I can tell you that when I do have to step away and am anable to go and talk about dealings for a week there is a pile of stuff that needs to be gone through etc....its literally like a second full time job.

Due to the nature of these accounts and my grandmothers situation AND it being international...we keep changing items, every time any item is changed, all parties involved have to sign.....currently to keep things going, signatures have been required of me at least 15 times this year.

Again...not that I have to but to defend myself.....due to some major changes in the past 48 hours, Ive had 6 thats right 6 conference calls in the past 2 days. Some lasting 30 minutes, others a mere 10.

Due to these major changes, I was almost on a plane to take care of an emergency situation, that if needed would require a signature...and due to my schedule I was the available one to go. Granted that again changed within 12 hours, but the need was there.

Now those last 2 paragraphs, JUST deal with my grandmother. I havent even gotten to the details about the other business involvement with properties and people involved with that.

So while your dealings with your family business might be quick and rare, mine are not. Its a constant topic and necessity.

The 'balance' that I speak of has to do with money, in several accounts that gets shifted around quite frequently. Its pooled money from my parents, myself, my grandmother and my uncle. Its invested and earns money for her care.....we all have our hands in the information to make the best decisions on how to invest.
We also each have a seperate account containing some of on anothers money should the main account have an issue. This is money that we have all signed legal documents that we will not touch. In an emergency, that money can be pulled to cover care for her should she need it.
Why are you financially providing for your grandmother? Shouldn't that be an issue for the children of your grandmother (and their spouses)? Again, you CHOSE to enter into these agreements. I don't think anyone put a gun to your head.

Dane....guess we just have different definitions of what abuse is. I just dont jump on the bandwagon that if someone says something hurtful or mean that its automatically abuse.
What if they repeatedly say things? For years?

gemma-dahl

07-29-2009, 02:00 PM

In your defense, i do feel like sometimes people on these boards can get condescending or act like they know everything about a situation and in reality they themselves have their own toxic situations that they refuse to leave or deal with- that's just the way things are in life - everyone wants to be an authority on other people's lives but rarely if ever do they follow their own advice

Are people who call others they don't know names like "bitches" and "whores" - or who are judgmental when married people who they don't know express a lack of desire to go out alone with opposite-sex friends - exempt from the "condescending" or "act like they know everything about the situation" labels? Or are those labels only applied to posters with whom we specifically disagree?

For the OP, I do know of people who are that entwined in some family business, so I can't give you any advice. I know when it came to dealing with my grandfather's will, there was a lot of back-and-forth, but it didn't last over spans of years like your business does. It's really up to you how much you are willing to put up with, and I do agree it is a choice. If you want to continue to see them and be involved in the business, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do.

HDC80

07-29-2009, 02:36 PM

Pisces...I am not financially providing for my grandmother.
Im not going to go into specifics....

In fact Im actually done explaining, or justifying what Im doing with the family business.

You have made several judgement calls and assumptions about a situation you know nothing about....all that needed to be said was that Im involved in family business, with contracts that require meetings and conference calls and its a regular thing......just because YOUR involvement in YOUR family business takes up less time doesnt mean that my involvement should equate yours.

And it was not a CHOICE. My parents are the primary people that tend to her care....if anything happens to them---guess what, its then on MY SHOULDERS.....so I have to be involved in case something happens to them.

Wow....cant believe I had to spell that out.

hoodie

07-29-2009, 06:06 PM

Here's another question, and I'm sorry if we're making you spell out too much, but I really need to understand before I can offer advice:

Do the meetings need to be in person? Can you possibly adopt more of a "business only" attitude where as soon as the necessary stuff is taken care of, you don't hang around or expose yourself to any more potential abuse than necessary?

I noticed on the "what are you doing tonight" thread, there were a handful of family dinners in there. Any chance you could just take care of the business and not stick around for dinner? Maybe do it all by phone and quit visiting? There may be ways to get your point across or even just remove yourself from damaging situations to a further degree without completely cutting off.

I figure you have no choice but be involved in family business and affairs, but maybe if you cut yourself out of the social end of it too, maybe you would at least scale back on your exposure to some of the crappy things they say?

Any chance at a scale-back for you?

ebrillblaiddes

07-29-2009, 11:09 PM

"You don't know what kind of business we do in this family" sounds a bit Godfatheresque to me :p

Listen, you may not be able to do it all at once, but surely you could, a little at a time, reduce your role in things...hand over your share of a family property in exchange for that family member's share of one of yours, that kind of thing...

Being available to sign off on your grandmother's health and other needs actually does make sense, since someone's got to, but daily living type stuff is just not that complicated and for urgent health stuff wouldn't whoever agree to what the attending physician advised anyway? So I don't see what that would entail on a minute-to-minute basis that took up all your time. And, the emergency cash reserves...that really sounds like it's set up in a more complicated way than it needs to be...I would categorize that as showing control freak tendencies there.

Also, I'm pretty sure the healthy response to "I wish I hadn't had her" would be "yeah well I wish I had a mother that wanted me."

pisces2473

07-29-2009, 11:14 PM

Pisces...has your mother ever made those types of comments to others with you there??

If not, then its nice you say/think you would cut her off, but you dont really know what you would do in the situation until you are faced with it.
No, she hasn't. Because my mother loves me and wanted me before I was even conceived. Even better, she RESPECTS me as an intelligent, independent woman.

Anyhoo--I have cut out family members who did not respect me or treat me decently. I also am wise enough to know the true colors of certain family members, which is why I never showed interest in the family business. I won't even buy land from a family member because of the garbage it would start. Again, all about choice.

pisces2473

07-29-2009, 11:15 PM

HDC80

07-30-2009, 10:29 AM

No, she hasn't. Because my mother loves me and wanted me before I was even conceived. Even better, she RESPECTS me as an intelligent, independent woman.

This is about as heartless as telling someone whose adopted, to their face "at least I wasnt adopted'
Its also a mean statement to anyone that was born and not planned, cause you know that DOES happen.

Hoodie----due to the paperwork involved, it has to be done in person. We go over this stuff while eating. Its not business then dinner or dinner then business, its going on at the same time. These meetings take about 1.5 - 3 hours depending on what needs to be settled.

Its pretty bare bones socially as it is. I only go to obligations I dont just pop over, or go over more than the scheduled meetings for business stuff. I only went to that party due to it being my second family (spend much of my childhood with them...and wanted to celebrate their 40th anniversary)....so I went to be there and see THEM not due to my parents wanting/needing me to go.

ebrillblaiddes---yes I could, but there is no one else to turn it over to. Im an only child...my involvement comes from if something happens to one or both of my parents...so there is a very seemless transition of things from them to me.....it will mean that if they die tomorrow or in 25 years, there is very little headache involved with the estate.
The way that its set up, everyone has to hold a certain %....cant go over or under than %....thank you government for thresholds.

Daily living things ARE that complicated when her care isnt in the United States. Her attending physician is my uncle....so we talk about it before anything is done.

The cash reserves again are due to government thresholds and available liquid assets...to not be taxed a certain % you have to be under a certain $ amount....to do that...you spread the cash out over different places.....yes its complicated. Some is invested, other is in savings, other is easily liquidated. each of us maintain a certain amount of the estate.

If I made the statement you said in response to what my mother said....WWIII would ensue.....its easier to just let it lie and swallow it down.

hoodie

07-30-2009, 11:44 AM

Okay, I am in no way whatsoever implying that you should hope for this, but will your parents be a little more out of your life once your grandmother has passed away, or is it more business that keeps you tied in?

I still am having trouble understanding what the family business is and why 3 hour dinner meetings are needed for paperwork 3x a week. I just need help here...I've had no experience with "family business". What all are you signing? Can you maybe get a fax machine for yourself and do it that way and take care of the rest via phone? Why do you have to sit there with them?

pisces2473

07-30-2009, 11:54 AM

HDC80

07-30-2009, 12:09 PM

Hoodie....its 2 times a week. End of week and mid week.

I will probably be less involved with business things once my grandmother passes. Right now its about 65% of the business we tend to. Im still involved with their estate and signatures, being a signatory etc....and that will need to be taken care of and reviewed probably 2x a quarter.....

Signatures come on legal documents about my parents care as a witness or a second signature. Its also siging paperwork to have access to accounts, and explanation of those accounts, how to access them, how to use them, how to answer questions should either of my parents be unavailable and immediate response is needed from a signatory.
Im also reviewing documents about the mortgage on my parents and my Gmas home, pension (US & in another country), Heath care proxy items, accounting......
What makes it all so complicated is that we have US tax laws as well as another country. Due to dealings in another country (where she lives) all signatures have to be live----cant fax a copy sign it and fax it back......

The originals and enough copies for the 3 of us.....so I keep hard copies at my house should anything happen to the copy in the safety deposit box (yet another thing that has to be done...change signatures on anything and the 3 of us have to go and pull out the SDP and exchange the documents...all 3 of us have to sign to get into the SDP)---and my parents keep a copy at their house.....so each is a back up for the other.

Pisces...all you had to say was no she has never made those types of comments to me.

The rest of it, made the statement hurtful.
'Because my mother loves me and wanted me before I was even conceived.'

ebrillblaiddes

07-30-2009, 03:28 PM

ebrillblaiddes---yes I could, but there is no one else to turn it over to. Im an only child...my involvement comes from if something happens to one or both of my parents...so there is a very seemless transition of things from them to me.....it will mean that if they die tomorrow or in 25 years, there is very little headache involved with the estate.
The way that its set up, everyone has to hold a certain %....cant go over or under than %....thank you government for thresholds. OK then keep your stake in things but set someone else handle it for you. An uncle, a cousin, a lawyer or other such creature whose job it is. If I had that much drama because of a significant amount of money, I would pay people to handle that stuff for me.

ebrillblaiddes

07-30-2009, 03:36 PM

It's also one thing to have an oops baby, but QUITE ANOTHER to tell them that they really weren't wanted. Who the fuck does that? And even the statement of fact could have been handled about a bajillion percent better. For example: "We just had the one because I didn't originally want kids but she came along anyway but then we figured we definitely should quit while we were ahead."

I mean, we don't think it's awful if someone who doesn't have kids says they don't want kids; it's just a statement of fact. The fact doesn't change if a kid happens anyway, but it can be stated harshly or matter-of-factly...the way in the OP's story definitely sounds harsh.